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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  May 29, 2020 10:00pm-11:01pm PDT

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thanks joy, and thanks to you at home joining us. i'm david goourra in world headquarters in new york. we're following protests taking place across the country as this nation continues to react to the death of george floyd, unarmed black man who died after pleading for his life in police
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custody. twin cities of minneapolis and st. paul are under mandatory curfew, just hours after murder and manslaughter charges were announced against the police officer leaning on mr. floyd's neck as he repeatedly said i can't breathe. began more than four hours ago, yet some protesters still in the streets of this hour. we saw minneapolis authorities trying to push back demonstrators with tear gas and flash bangs. they're reeling tonight, not only cities facing unrest. peaceful protests in atlanta turned violent earlier this evening with buildings damaged and police vehicles set on fire. thousands gathered in new york, flashes breaking out between demonstrators and police. more than 700 miles away in louisianaville, kentucky, protesters taken to the streets for second night of demonstrations as the city reels
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from the death of george floyd and brianna taylor, medical technician shot by police inside her home earlier this year. nbc news correspondent jake ward, you were on with joy, we saw what happened there, police pushing protesters down the street where you're standing. what's changed last 30, 45 minutes? >> reporter: david, it's intensified and fractured. protesters now scattered across the downtown area, pushing up against police wherever they encounter them. police trying to hold a cordon to defend the main precinct of downtown oakland. but as the protesters stand with arms up, some ducking over, draw attention to the side, setting small fires, trash cans, this little salvation army outpost,
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little acts of destruction as they go. that said, these are experienced protesters, you've seen things as simple as when protesters were throwing fireworks into the police and police responding can tear gas and flash bangs, people began to run and other protesters calling out just walk, just walk to keep people safe. feeling of long experience with protests. oscar grant in 2009 is on everybody's minds here. see the name held up everywhere. this is just the latest in that sort of -- the frustration people seem to feel. police here now seem to be pushing everyone back, trying to get them further out. recently declared since i was with you last that this is no longer an okay assembly. no longer allowed and they're going to push people back. >> no justice, no peace.
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>> as you walk, corner of oakland you're in, how many people are there and what you're hearing from the protesters, experiences, motivation for them coming out tonight. and how many are there? >> reporter: oakland police department been under consent decree since 2003, only a few years but 17 years later the oakland department is under the supervision of federal authorities because they've not been able to maintain the record of civil rights they need to. fire is beginning to intensify here. this is going to draw all the feelings deeper and deeper from the people. there's a long history of anger in this community. i think as we see the economic circumstances get harder, the coronavirus lockdown continue, tensions are rising and rising.
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and this brought it all up to the surface, david. >> has this been taking place last few days? been following the protests and unrest in the twin cities, seems like it's made its way across this country. has it been building in oakland, the bay area, the last few days? >> reporter: definitely something on everyone's lips, you just hear it on the streets. this is definitely first big assembly of people we've seen. there are planned protests through the weekend. in san francisco tomorrow, protest where people will be driving in cars as a quieter, safer, coronavirus proof sort of protest. but this is the raw feeling right now. this is people coming out and really trying to let go of some of this anger they're feeling about the long history of difficulties here in oakland and bay area in general. they seem to recognize all the way across the country, now
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starting to see, hear the flash bangs and protesters moving and starting to definitely getting into a situation of being pushed back further again, david. the intensity is rising. anger is here, you can smell the tear gas, all of it happening right now here in oakland, david. >> how long has it been going on over the course of the evening? see it building there, police pushing the protesters back, moving you down that crowded street. how long has it been going on, building? >> reporter: probably 2 1/2 to 3 hours, something like that. initially a small, intense group shouting at the police, now gotten into place people joining in from all over, parking cars in middle of intersections and trying to create as much of a sense of chaos as you can. people just feeling it here, david. going to see as the night goes
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on, it's going to build and build as is often the case in protests in oakland in the past. >> you were talking about the moment of the experience of the protesters there, how about the experience of the police? what does the police presence look like there tonight as you look at protest culture in oakland, in the bay? >> reporter: the police have long experience with this. saw newly installed interim police chief -- just started her job in march. fire really beginning to intensify now. now we're going to back up, here comes tear gas. i've lost you. got it. david, i'm sorry. took my glasses off and lost my way. but now flash bangs and tear gas set off to push people back even
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further, definitely hit a fever pitch in this evening's events. and police really have long experience here as i was starting to say. their tactics are pretty clear. they were just repeating over and over again you have the right to peacefully assemble, now they've said you no longer can be here. they're pushing people back with tear gas, flash bangs, using coordinated efforts, they know what they're doing, we're seeing a rising of intensity from protesters and also much stronger reaction from the police than we did, david. >> are you able to talk to the protesters? apologize to the viewers if you have sensitive mic, early morning profanity on the east coast. but what are they saying about the motivations for coming out this evening? >> reporter: everyone feels the
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very strong feeling at a time when there has just not been a feeling of being heard, right? this is -- what is the line from martin luther king, a riot is the language of the unheard. this protest is people who have not been able to feel heard. seems to be the thing we hear over and over again here. people are just trying in this case to get themselves heard as best they can. that feeling, that frustration seems to be boiling over. for me, i look at that combined with incredible unemployment figures, some of the strictest lockdown rules in the country, all of that. we're being gassed again, david, going to keep going down the street. >> see what they're doing to us? >> reporter: like i say, a raw feeling here in oakland. people really feeling just the sheer frustration of it all. that seems to really be boiling over tonight as we approach
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10:00. >> stay with us if you would, continue getting to place that's safe. we're going to look at aerial footage of los angeles, big protest there and sacramento as well. erupting across the country. center of all of this in the twin cities, minneapolis and st. paul. mark claxton is with us, as he has been throughout the evening. get your reaction to what we're seeing in oakland, los angeles, way it's manifested tonight. there has been a build over the course of the week and become a national protest event, has it not? >> yes. i believe so. lot of this -- some of the locations spontaneous, some p n planned after initial night of protests and demonstrations. mixed group, some there to be heard and establish and prove or
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communicate a point or position. but most dangerous ones believe in anarchy. anarchists are out as well in several locations. also individuals who kind of support this anarchist movement, amateur and professional provocateurs. it's a huge challenge because you can't really clearly define what type of protest that you are policing out there in the streets. >> marq, i want to go to the contrast of what we just saw in oakland, and jacob ward describing the degree to which the police are talking to the protesters, being explicit what they're trying to do, what's going to happen next, contrasting with what we heard from minneapolis and -- there's not noticeable police presence
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on the ground there. that was story of last night as the third precinct burst into flames. conflagration. help us understand the difficulties of that, not having police there to give them instruction of what is going to happen, what they intend to do next. >> different locations have different tactical strategies, a lot dependent on the availability of man padpower an resources. you have to prioritize, some police departments are concentrated on sensitive areas they're determined to hold, other locations such as minneapolis, obviously the strategy was cede as much ground as possible and encourage the crowd to walk towards them and hoping they would dissipate the
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more you walk. other locations i've seen, california, seems as if there's shift in movement there too, but general idea once again, keep the crowd moving. don't want the crowd to remain stagnant in one particular area where they have a strategical advantage. encourage movement, ceding space, hoping people follow you, or pushing forward what we see, flash bangs and tear gas as way to prod people in a certain direction. >> thank you very much. appreciate your wisdom and perspective this evening. appreciate you staying up late with us as well. moving to louisville, kentucky, where cal perry is on the ground. louisville erupted in protests,
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seven individuals shot in protests tied to the killing of brianna taylor. help us understand what's happening there. slow build of protests across the country, what did we see on the streets of louisville tonight? >> reporter: violence earlier. it's calmed down now. police have created rectangle around the inner downtown area, even though it's calmed down, feels more dangerous in some ways than it did before when they were firing little rounds of pepper spray because there's little groups of folks wandering around, some with baseball bats looking to just do damage. right behind me, louisville visitor's center, completely destroyed and lot of the block looks like this. somebody is trying to start a fire end of the block, i don't think you can see it but trying to light something on fire. police here are not doing anything about it. they've made their priority the safety of folks here. mentioned shooting last night,
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seven people shot. they sacrificed the businesses outside the perimeter they created and trying to get people off the streets. used tear gas earlier, broke into smaller groups but turned violent, carrying baseball bats, hiding in bushes, then picking them up. taylor was killed in middle of march, was a nurse at her house, went on a no-knock raid they called it. mayor said those will stop today. whole thing under doj investigation but got the city on edge. family said they didn't want violence but happy that finally her death is receiving national attention. it's not just minneapolis but in louisville the difficulty between police and community as we're seeing around the country. >> with george floyd there's question of systemic change that
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can happen in minneapolis, with brianna taylor, the mayor decided she's not going to have those raids, wonder if that placated or pacified protesters at all, making that substantive policy change from that tragic incident a couple months back. >> reporter: it really hasn't. one of the reasons the three police officers involved in the no-knock raid are on administrative reassignment is how they put it, still in jobs, still paid, not even suspended. people are disgusted by that. also on this no-knock raid that killed this 26-year-old nurse, person they were going for was already in police custody. there's a real question about the systemic racism that people see inside the police force. >> from louisville, cal perry, thanks for the reporting. back to minnesota now, morgan chesky has been on the ground duration of the evening, there
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at third precinct last night and made his way back to that shell of a building consumed by flames last night. there was talk about what was going on at fifth precinct tonight, what have you been seeing walking around reporting this evening? >> reporter: we're about four blocks from the third precinct, the epicenter of the tensions risen throughout the week since the four police officers were fired. real quick, this is one of the newest fires that popped up in the neighborhood, it is a post office, something we've walked back and forth from all day long. upon returning to vehicle just to grab water earlier we saw smoke started to come out from one of the windows, by the time we made it back, flames had started making their way out of this building. whoever started this fire, long gone [ smashing glass ] >> reporter: going to take a few steps back, windows starting to break now, can hear them
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shatter. not likely to see official response. police, fire, national guard time and time again we've seen buildings burn around the ten-block area and waited for response and it never came. we know there were at least 500 people here at 8:00, whenever that curfew went into effect, 8:00 central time. they moved from this area towards the more downtown part of the city. since then haven't really seen major numbers here. what we have seen are groups of people coming to witness the aftermath and others merely taking advantage of the fact it's become bit of a free-for-all, going into one business after other, taking what they wish and going on, some lighting fires like this. two mornings in a row people have woken up in minneapolis to see damage, to see part of their city destroyed.
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unfortunately tomorrow morning looks to be the same. david. >> want you to contrast last night to tonight. two mayors, jacob frey and melvin carter calling for the curfew at 8:00. has that changed what the cities looked like? are there fewer people on the streets? jacob frey was at press conference saying he has confidence in the police chief and fire chief there as well. does it feel or look different? is the response at all different from what we saw last night on the streets? >> reporter: the response is not different. the scene is different in that we're not seeing the concentration of people here at this one location. however we do have reason to believe there are still pockets of people -- going to take a few more steps back just to be safe, there are pockets of people in and around the city free to do as they wish.
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we're not seeing the tense anger simmering all day long yesterday that resulted in a second night of just fires and looting and vandalism. we're not seeing the extent of that that we've seen past several days but unabated vandalism and looting that's continuing into this night. it's different in the sense we're not seeing the numbers here but very much the same in results. whatever damage people want to inflict on the buildings of this area, they're free to do so. going until tomorrow, going to have same curfew, 8:00 p.m. central to 6:00 a.m. saturday and sunday, curious to see if there's more enforcement. this morning, this area had a firm perimeter of state police in full riot gear. set the line and held it better part of the entire day. crowds gathered near that line and once the curfew was put into
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effect, police tried to disperse them using tear gas, that was really the last time we saw them this evening, david. >> would you agree we're seeing a vacuum, lack of response now. mayor said that state is now leading it, governor was talking about the role of the national guard. sun has set, fires are raging, sounds like there isn't much in terms of law enforcement response to the flames and action you're seeing there. >> reporter: for all intents and purposes, david, absolutely is a vacuum. heard the mayor say yesterday in a press conference that no building is worth a human life, trying to explain the reason why police pulled back from that third precinct building to avoid another potential confrontation with the crowd that had swelled to several hundred people who then overtook that building. today looks to be the same
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strategy to some extent, despite having additional resource of the national guard in city of minneapolis and more state police officers here this morning. it is surreal, david, you mentioned vacuum, able to walk around with crew, security team as we wish, and witness all of this happening around us, and to have walked by this building several times today and just assumed it was safe, then once night fell to walk past and see smoke come out and flames overtake the building, watching it happen in real time now, it's r surreal, only word to encapsulate this moment here. >> you have two cities bisected by mississippi river. get a sense from you how much you know of what is going on elsewhere in the city, marvel ow am blatory you've been, making way as this erupts.
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heard you earlier this evening talking about the fact there were reports of people swarming that precinct as well. how much does it feel contiguous, how widespread it is in the two twin cities? >> reporter: we know that i-35, the interstate was shut down earlier today by hundreds upon hundreds of people who took to the roadway and blocked it from traffic for at least several hours. so that is one of the most -- i guess, visible examples how mobile the masses have been. st. paul saw a lot of damage yesterday from another target store there looted, then several buildings set on fire there as well. in and around two cities that have grown up next to each other, there's not really one focal point per se anymore. it all started really at third
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precinct, just down the street from us right now. since then it's made itself present whenever any group of people have wanted to send a message -- whatever message they're wanting to send really. what happened to george floyd was wrong, they're tired of the current system, and they feel unheard. and this is unfortunately their last resort. david. >> lastly, morgan, about this charging document that came out today. officer who killed george floyd now murder and manslaughter charge, how much is that on the lips of those you're talking to tonight? how much are they talking about the action we saw the local prosecutor take today and action they hope the federal prosecutors take in days to come. >> reporter: they're hopeful for justice first and foremost but acknowledging that derek chauvin is one officer of four involved
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in the death taken into custody, waiting to see what happens to the remaining three. and third degree murder charge, plenty in the crowd gathered outside the third precinct saying that was insult, nothing but slap on the wrist allowing him a short jail sentence, be able to serve and return back to normal life and said that was not justice they were looking for in the death of george floyd. so you have that happening there, in the meantime, other thing people are seeing from the documents is that we had that officer chauvin kneeling on floyd's neck for 2:43 seconds after his pulse stopped. 2:43. and that's exacerbated some of the frustration felt by people. when they saw that video, knew exactly what was happened.
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to see it corroborated in the charging documents only reinforces the fact they believe justice has yet to be fully served. >> on this, fourth night of unrest in twin cities. morgan chesky in minneapolis with fine reporting. been reporting last few days for us. thank you very much, thanks for staying up late with us, appreciate the reporting as well. as we take a break, look at pictures from california. sizeable protest there and police presence as well. group of protesters moved back by phalanx of police in downtown los angeles. continuing to keep eye on protests there, protests in cities around the country as unrest spreads here across these united states. coverage continues on msnbc in just a moment. a moment. mean gl the things she loves to do. it should just mean, well, finding new ways to do them. right at home's professional team
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our coverage continues. david gura here in new york. looking at sacramento, capital
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of california. protests taking place there. small group there flanked by police cars, blocking the road in sacramento. protests taking place across the country tonight, atlanta, brooklyn, denver, las vegas and los angeles as well, big protest downtown. police trying to move protesters back in downtown los angeles, these protests been going on several hours now in city of los angeles. of course the epicenter of all of this in minneapolis and st. paul, started because of the death of george floyd on memorial day. go now to jim kavanaugh who joins us now. you've been watching all of this unfold. back to something i was watching with my colleague, police response or lack thereof. last night we saw the precinct erupt in flames and mayor gave it his imprimater allows it to take place.
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press conference the mayor insisted things were under control, heard the governor say it as well. talked about using national guard to greater degree. your reaction to what we're seeing, lack of response to more fires tonight. >> i don't think they've found their right level in minneapolis yet. you want to have proper level of restraint, don't want to overreact but you have to be civil authority. l.a., on the street, officers in force. lapd officer was injured, prior to the break led out to paramedics. there's action there. but police are there. and you know, the police have to be there in a democracy. they have to act properly, they have to act with the right equipment. they are in some danger but that's part of law enforcement. minneapolis hasn't found the
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right spot yet because the city can't take all this arson. they're strategically letting commercial structures burn that the fire chiefs and commanders can make a decision from afar that that one doesn't look like it's going to spread to occupy multiple dwellings, but if you start getting fire storms, flying embers that can fly blocks and light multiple apartment dwellings on fire, you cannot sit back, you have to send apparatus in, firefighters in, protected by troopers or guardsmen or minneapolis pd. how much arson can a city take? and other part, you've got to get some of the arsonists. city can take some of it, and i think strategically from commanders using restraint and watching a car burn in the street and not overreacting or a
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separated commercial building they don't want to risk too many -- too much violence over that, some of that can be done properly, strategically and i salute them for that. there's a level you can't keep letting it go on and arsonists to take free reign in the city. protesters are long gone, people who marched for justice for floyd are gone, this is not what this is about. this is destruction and arson and ruining the city. when i was a little boy, my dad was a newark, new jersey, fireman, and riots in '68, i remember them vividly, had national guard in the streets, tanks in the street, the city burning. and we had firemen shot on the ladder in -- shot through the back, captain on engine 11 was shot through the back.
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a police detective killed, lots of deaths in the city and burned down central city, burned it down. but the fire department never stopped going. police department never stopped going. they kept going and suffered casualties for it. i think we can do it smarter today, obviously we're better at all the tactics and want to keep all the fire and police safe, but at some point they're going to have to move in more in minneapolis because they can't let the arson go on. >> stay with us, if you would. bring in two of my favorite lawyers, kind enough to join us this evening. back to the charging document i brought up, joyce vance, start with you if i could. get your reaction to. heard from the county prosecutor and u.s. attorney as well, these investigations, preparing charges takes time, county attorney emphasized that in his comments, saying they moved expeditiously, quickly under
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normal circumstances. your reaction to the charges levied against the officer and what you think might happen next, having seen that document. >> it does take time to bring charges, david, andc can be frustrating for communities and all of us watching this. it's important law enforcement get it right. don't want to rush to get the confident of evidence and have technical problem that makes it inadmissible in court. what prosecutors appear to have done is brought charges to use as basis for arrest, whether or not it's final charge remains to be seen. under minnesota law there's a distinction between the third degree murder charge filed, that's a depraved heart sort of murder. someone fires a gun into a crowded building. might not intend to kill somebody but anyone doing that would logically know that death
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might result. that's easier to prove than first degree murder under minnesota law which requires proof of premeditation and intent. way prosecutors will work toward that most likely is talking to other officers who were there, sorting out who is going to be witness and who is going to be a defendant. talking to witnesses and looking at video tape, this is compelling. i've tried police cases, they're hard. i've lost a couple of big ones. tried them because it was right thing to do but juries didn't convict. never had a case like this, murder on tape, 2:43 minutes that former officer chauvin has his knee on the defendant's neck. hard to tell looking at video, fbi can enhance for a better picture, but looks like there's a point he bounces a little bit on his neck. that's evidence of animus,
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intent to easily enhance the charges to first degree murder as it moves forward. >> looking at images of seattle, unrest taking place across the country. los angeles, protests continuing in downtown los angeles as well. turn to you, just read a bit from the complaint. morgan chesky brought this up. my colleague a few moments ago. quote the defendant has his knee on mr. floyd's neck, 2 minutes and 43 seconds of eight minutes were after he was unresponsive. rallying cry for minneapolis and across the country who would like to see more done here. >> not only that, but several times one of the officers according to the complaint said do you think we should turn mr. floyd on his side, defendant said no, going to keep him where he is, that may turn out very important. other thing, where department of justice can help, what is the
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history of this officer, and that investigation takes a lot of time. what about all the prior complaints, what does it teach us, tell us, what was his reputation, do other officers think he goes after defendant -- arrestees and uses too much force and what do we know about those instances. all those need to be investigated to make a decision whether or not this is going to be superseded. some people are pushing and pushing and promising essentially first degree -- not joyce obviously, but promising will be a first degree murder superseding indictment and that raises the specter of disappointing people. that would be difficult, intent and premeditation. we need to be honest with people, truth is an investment, right? there's a couple of things, that's to me unlikely. possible because of the facts we
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have but unlikely. also unlikely the department of justice is going to charge when the locals have charged. people need to understand that so they're not disappointed and angry when things go differently. >> legal process plays out here. marq claxton is back with us. talking to colleague about what happened in louisville, mayor doing away with the no-knock warrants for time being after death of ms. taylor. had going out to protesters to talk to them. mayor of minneapolis appeared with the chief of police, continuing to say he has 100% faith in chief of police there. what more needs to be done from policy perspective as all of this continues to rage in twin cities? what needs to happen with the police chief in minneapolis and the community? what can be done in parallel with that legal track? >> i can guarantee you, going to
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be doing top to bottom review, policy manuals and training and tactics, that's standard fare. especially after such an incident as this. and within that, because he has already expressed he's reform minded, may be elements of some of the reform suggestions that have been thrown around the past several years from very -- many activist organizations, lot of law enforcement and civil rights organizations. i suspect at least in minneapolis that chief arredondo and jacob frey will be making moves, tactics, procedures and policies. and frankly about hiring
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practices. you know, human resources, those would be issues moving forward to look at i'm sure. >> just want to get your reaction to what you're seeing tonight, marq. how this is happening so widely, so many cities across this country. i'm sure you're studying the response, watching what's happening in seattle. what we've seen in sacramento, los angeles and oakland as well. it's not uniform. response is different, way the cities are deploying the police force is different as well. but take a step back, macro perspective, how significant it is to see the magnitude of this protest movement across the country. >> it is quite disturbing, truth it's really disturbing. i made sure to have conversations with some of my friends and family members in nypd because of so many disturbances across the nation, try to get idea of what's going on on the ground. but as i always say, this level
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of danger and this type of uncertainty for police officers is standard fare. it comes part and parcel of what is expected of you as a professional police officer. and these are the occasions you have to rise to occasion and oftentimes place yourself in harm's way. it's difficult. and difficult for law enforcement professionals like myself and i'm sure jim will tell you same thing, it's difficult to watch. as jim indicated, there comes a time where you're going to have to be a bit more assertive. what shape or form that takes, where that strategy works best will be determined i'm sure on the ground according to available resources and equipment they have. i definitely agree with jim, there has to be a point you begin the process of reclaiming the territory and preventing further damage or possibility of loss of life. >> going to put a version of
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that question to who joins us now, organizer of black lives matter, role played in ferguson a few years back, thanks for being here. let me ask you how you're reacting to seeing all of this, level of protest in so many cities across the country, catalyzed by what happened on memorial day in minneapolis but about issues much bigger than that. >> i'm reminded first and foremost this was avoidable. violence that started all of this was killing of george floyd, and we know that in 2020 killed as many people as 2019. even with lockdowns, historic decrease in crime happening because of the quarantine, police killed at same rate and number. that's what got us here, right? also know it was insult to a lot
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of people d.a. did a press conference, there's more evidence we need, evidence we saw looks wild and we've seen people convicted for 50, 60, 70 years with much less evidence than that. it was shocking they wouldn't even be arrested that day. when i see unrest in the street, time and time again, the police should have been ready for this. mayor should have seen these. >> reporter: were going to be the outcomes and just like 2019, spread across the country. shocked at lack of leadership at police level and governor level to contain it on the front end and they just didn't. >> looking at photos of sacramento, standoff taking place. can you put yourself back to what it was like in ferguson this time of night, unsteady standoff between protesters and police, what was going through your mind then, and if you dare
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to psychoanalyze what might be going through protesters' minds now, what they're thinking at this point. there's a standoff, just tonight what they're thinking, what's likely to happen next. >> people are trying to be safe. being on the street is hard. lot of people doing interviews never been in the street, in harm's way. everybody i know who has put their body on the line is not something we romanticize or glamorize but we did it because it was right thing to do to make sure the issues got as much attention as they could. we think of ferguson as phenomenon, in the street 400 days straight. different from anything we've seen since. still people are upset and compounded by fact that people have been in the house for what feels like forever. think about this, i do think the police have realized that having solely wild military response
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like they did in st. louis, because we got tear gassed in coffee shops, i was dragged out of police department by my ankles. they realize those don't work but police departments across the country still killing at such a race. third of the people killed in the country killed by a police officer. that's wild. i don't know why people think we -- choke holds are not banned in chicago, could ban them tomorrow, this is a choice not to ban them. >> go back to you on that point. see the protest go national, unrest across the country, there's a hunger, perhaps a need for uniform effort to reform police processes. is anything like that percolating or happening at this point? is this a catalyst? didn't happen after ferguson, is it likely this time around?
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>> it's not likely but there have been in the past significant movement and planning around police reform or law enforcement reform, specifically police. 21st century tax force in the previous administration, but many of those ideas were scrapped when the new administration came into power. but hit it on the head, in order to transform and change the current condition, relationship and dynamic between communities and police, there has to be some really significant reform model in place, and implemented. perhaps as result of this tragedy, unlike previous tragedies, perhaps this is the trigger, the mechanism to go forward with a complete reform agenda. and perhaps minneapolis may be the place to start that reform movement, along with understanding and taking into
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account all of the ideas from activists, law enforcement professionals, everyone involved in planning this thing. it's necessary. without it we'll be back here within a couple weeks. >> joyce advancvance, we have s this death from multiple vantages, how does that change the story going forward? having that abundance of evidence. talking about fbi's ability to clarify or amplify some of the footage of the killing of george floyd, how different are things in 2020, how have things changed using that evidence and presenting it in a court of law? >> iphones change everything in these kinds of daises, david.
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advantage here is this lets a jury view the crime through the eyes of the victim. in police cases unfortunately often what it comes down to, juries don't like to convict police officers, rightly or wrongly, they want to give them the benefit of the doubt. in case like this with video taped evidence, more than just he said/she said situation, the jury can use that. but it's important to note in addition to criminal prosecution, there are other options here. bringing in notion of the 21st century policing report which i hope will be revitalized now, doj can do a civil process, case ending in consent decree to force the police department to reform its practices, do better training, make sure you don't have officer with 17 incidents that go unaddressed on his
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record. requires a multiplicity of approaches. video is key to getting everyone's attention and making them understand how significant this problem is. >> cynthia, turn to you again. pressure that the prosecutors are under, lot of people not sympathetic to that, want it to move faster yet but how to quickly assemble, do the case under the public scrutiny, that i would deign to say is likely to become more intense as it wears on. >> it is intense, i've done my share of police cases and always intense. and there's what does the fbi have, what does the state have. one thing we haven't seen yet, critical evidence, body cam footage, needs to be released.
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may make a huge difference. in the indictment there are quotes, so prosecutors are looking at what the officers were saying to each other at the time. one officer said repeatedly to the defendant officer, maybe we should turn him, maybe we should turn him. and officer with his knee on george floyd's neck refused to do that. so that type of evidence is going to be very important in addition as joyce notes to all of the prior investigations and what we learn about this officer from those investigations. pressure is intense and just going to go up and up and up until they make a final decision on the final charges. >> joyce, last question to you about your experience with department of justice. we've heard from the president and attorney general bill barr on this matter. i wonder how much you're thinking about that, role that justice in washington is going to play going forward, and what open questions this raises for
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you about how seriously the doj writ large is going to take what happened here in minneapolis. >> typically in a situation like this, doj gives first opportunity to bring criminal charges to the locals, the state agencies involved, and there's in fact a policy at doj, petit policy that says that doj should be hesitant to bring a criminal prosecution after the state has brought one, we try to let the local people control their own cases. there are some situations where federal interest is unaddressed in state charges where you might see the feds come in. but once there's a state criminal prosecution in play, that's likely the only criminal prosecution we'll see. doesn't mean there's not important role for doj to play here. leadership, tone and insistence on accountability and police
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reform in this situation. there's a great tool kit in place left from the obama administration that promotes police and community engagement. time to build that relationship is not in the middle of a crisis but through community policing on day-to-day basis. and this police department in minneapolis and others under fire in these situations, georgia, with ahmaud arbery, those departments need to rebuild relationships with those communities. it's not easy but critical to avoid conflagrations we're seeing in cities in crises right now. >> literal and metaphorical. thanks to you all. my colleagues on the ground reporting on the unrest we're seeing, morgan chesky in minneapolis, jacob ward in oe oakland and ali velshi who has
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gone to bed to wake up for his show. killing of george floyd, memorial day, third day of unrest. talking about charging document introduced earlier this day. coverage continues on msnbc throughout the night. continues throughout the night
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brian, thank you so much. really appreciate it. and really thank you as well for joining us this hour. aand, as we come on the air tonight, we are following protests that are taking place all across this nation after the death of george floyd. and this nation continues to react to that death, an unarmed black man who died after pleading for his life while in the custody of police. and tonight the twin cities of minneapolis and st. paul are under mandatory curfew. that order comes just hours after murder and manslaughter charges were announced against the police officer who was s