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tv   The Rachel Maddow Show  MSNBC  September 10, 2020 1:00am-2:00am PDT

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court. we need people to go to my >> stacey abrams, as always great to talk to you that is "all in" for this evening on this with you good evening, rachel. >> good evening, chris thank you, my friend much appreciated thanks at home for joining us this hour. you know, i don't mean to make light of it or anything i don't mean to downgrade the gravity because of what's going on in the news right now this is heavy stuff for our country. i kept on thinking over and over again as each unbelievable news story broke over the past 24 hours if this were a movie or a tv series of what's going on in american politics right now, tonight would probably be the episode of the tv series where the president of the united states resigns
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i mean, think about where we are right now, right labor day just happened. the political common wisdom, which is pretty accurate in this case -- the country starts thinking of the presidential election seriously only once labor day is over and the school year begins well, this year the school year beginning is a rolling coast-to-coast catastropheny because of the mishandling of the covid-19 epidemic. this week as we get past labor day and the school year is supposed to begin, we are waking up to the horror right now of what it means over the course of this summer that is wrapping up right now, over the course of this summer, covid infections in our country nearly quadrupled, just during the summer nearly quadrupled. today we passed 190,000 americans dead from covid.
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and today with that bearing down on us as an american and moral catastrophe, today he admits it. he admits it this is not an accusation about him from observers who believe it must be true given his behavior this is reporting about him from witnesses who tell reporters that they heard him and they admit it this is not even a president admitting it to the reporter and we have to believe the reporter. when i say he admits it, this is a person admitting this to the reporter and we have to believe the reporter this is what the president says. when i said he admits it, he admits it on tape in a conversation with reporter he was told that was recording him. >> i wanted to always play it down i still like playing it down. >> i played it down.
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i still like playing it down >> it will go away just stay calm this is going go away without a vaccine. >> cases, 99% of which are totally harmless. >> young people are almost immune to this disease. >> it's like a miracle it will disappear. >> in taped interviews with bob woodward for his new book, the president admitted on tape that he has always tried to play down the virus, even when he knew how deadly it was. >> it's also more deadly than your strenuous news. this is deadly stuff it's not just for older people. >> yeah, exactly. >> it happens to plenty of young people. >> that's what he knew, but still the president admits he likes the play it down even though he knew how bad it is, that it's deadly stuff, that
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young people aren't immune that this is not like the freaking flu woodward quotes the president saying to him, it's so easily transmittable, you wouldn't even admit it he's on tape knowing how contagious it is then in public, he's, you know, mocking people for wearing masks, holding rallies without any mask protection for anyone there, talking about how it's no big deal, it's just going to go away on its own. like i said n the well-written tv drama that we all wish this was, this is the episode where the president resigns. but in the utopia we live in instead of what would be on a tv show, instead we keep going on a day like today today in a vast part of our country, our real country, our real life, this morning the sun did not rise, at least not in a way that was visible to the naked eye. this was the view out the window
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this morning for the people living in the san francisco area the blue sky turned a vibrant shade of orange by the wildfires raging up and down the red coast. the orange got darker over the course of the day. this is smoke you're seeing. california is in the middle of the worst wildfire season ever logged into the public record. it's burned 2.3 million acres. that's all of what burned, more than the last year that's in the last few weeks these fires have destroyed homes, they've caused the evacuation of thousands of people this morning the sky turned a shade of orange so thick it blocked the morning sun. how would you know if it was day or night this was the drive across the golden gate bridge in san francisco around 9:30 this morning. they left the lights on all day in the bay area, drivers told to use their high beams in what should have been broad daylight
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but instead looked like this there are uncontrolled wildfires raging in 13 different western states tonight put together, the wildfires that are burning right this second cover a surface area roughly the size of the state of connecticut. in washington state yesterday, the fire reportedly wiped out an entire small town, the town of malden, washington, not far from the idaho border this was salem, oregon, today, more of that bright orange haze. the treetops look almost snowy they're covered in ash governor kate brown said the fires ripping across the state could cause, quote t greatest loss of human life and property in oregon's history. hundreds of homes in the state burned to the ground in the middle of it, more than 100,000 people without power tonight. even in places not touched by flames, not threatened by natural fire t scale of this natural disaster in the west is
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inescapable, and a breath of fresh air is impossible. and you will recall that the president has blamed the american west and california in particular for its own wildfires saying, really, they should sweep the forests. literally his idea is that, "a," climate change is a hoax, and, "b," the only people who get wildfire wildfires are those who deserve it because they don't sweep the grounds with brooms. that's what he's got to offer, the president of the united states tens of thousands are under evacuation orders because of this crisis right now. it's a time when the moment, when the needs of the country and the leadership of the country feel like they are roosting on two totally different planets honestly just everything in the news today. here's another one, much smaller scale, but still, right?
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here last night on this show, the president's longtime personal lawyer and fixer told us here on the air that as a candidate, the president had personally approved and directed the publication of false stories about almost all of his republican primary opponents including one story that said the father of republican u.s. senator ted cruz had been involved in the jfk assassination. the president not only arranged for a tabloid to run that story, personally approved it, he went so far as to dictate which picture he wanted to run on the first page of that tabloid that. was last night, we learned that about the president, and his treatment of senator cruz and senator cruz's family, senator cruz from his own party. this afternoon at the white house, the president -- i'm sure there's no connection at all i'm sure it's just a coincidence, but this afternoon the president has announced he's thinking about putting senator cruz on the united states
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supreme court. last night we learned that president trump personally chose a tabloid to put him on the front page today he says, i'm going to put him on the supreme court maybe in this era under the republican party of this president, it would appear that senator cruz is going to weigh out the two things and decide, ooh, neat, maybe i'm going to get to be on the supreme court. no, senator, you're not going to be on the supreme court, but enjoy the ride here's another one this was a little notice development today. today in a story reported in "bloomberg news" and not really anywhere else, the foreign bank to which the president owes hundreds of millions of dollars, it's such a gigantic scandal not known to any other president, a foreign fwienk which the current
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president owes hundreds of millions of dollars, today it hired its new counsel, one of the closest friends of attorney general william barr the bank, again, is owed hundreds of millions of dollars by the president while he's serving as president they're also facing ongoing investigations including their admitted role as the conduit fo large-scale russian money laundering that said, the case is not moving and attorney general barr is appearing to feel a little bit nicer about them already, today announcing a slap-on-the-wrist fine after one investigation for violating u.s. sanctions against russia it's just -- it's like one thing after another today. today this senate report found that the trump administration really has succeeded in skrcrewing up the mail this is not a thing that is other, the senate report showing
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that, for example, the delivery of prescription drugs by mail has been pretty severely slowed down by what the president's postmaster general has done to the postal service's ability to deliver mail anywhere near on time, and, of course, this is just ahead of what's about to be the largest vote by mail in history. meanwhile the justice department under william barr appears quite disintreted in recent bombshell reporting that president trump installed dejoy to screw up the mail he reportedly for years made massive donations to republican candidates by having his employees making large donations in his name followed by reimbursing them through the company. i don't know if you heard about bag man and the bribery and extortion scheme he ran in
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maryland before he landed at the white house. that scheme by sphero agnew that forced him out as vice president and nearly put him in jail, that whole scheme is reportedly similar to what dejoy did with his own employees to make the contributions. the reason spiro agnew didn't end up in washington as president is because they forced him out of the white house federal prosecutors working under attorney general barr don't seem all that interested in what dejoy did. of course not. i mean, it is possible that north carolina state prosecutors are interested in this we shall see but meanwhile he's still postmaster general and ballots are already going out for the presidential election. it is 55 days until election day.
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it will still be election day even if the president does resign doesn't seem like he's going to. i will say the trump campaign does cancel their rallies and the trump campaign did report raising $150 million less than what biden and harris raised last month, which is almost just unbelievable the reporting today, woodward's book and everything else any piece of this would be the defining, if not determined terminal scandal scandal, including nixon and probably including agnew if they let him get that close i mean, on top of all of this, just take the nuke thing this is from the "washington post" write-up on what's in bob woodward's new book, i mean, this alone listen to this quote. in the midst of reflecting upon how close the u.s. had come in
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2017 to war with north carolina, trump revealed, quote, i have built a nuclear, a weapon system that known has had in this country. we have stuff you haven't even seen or heard about. we have stuff that putin and xi have never heard about there's nobody what we have is incredible woodward writes other sources later confirmed that the u.s. military does have a secret new weapon system, but they would not provide details. he also reports that the other sources he spoke to were surprised trump had disclosed it now, i don't know what it is either but if, in fact, we have new nuclear weapon capabilities that's unlike anything they got in russia and anything we got in china and anything that's disclosed to the world, if what he said to bob woodward is true and other sources say it is, i'm quite sure that donald trump is
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not supposed to disclose that to bob woodward or to anyone else i mean, with that comment alone, with that appearing in woodward's book, the president has just today launched -- he just launched a new nuclear -- great nuclear arms race, right that comment for something he wasn't supposed to talk about to the report letter drive a new creation of nuclear weapons development by china and russia. great. thanks cheers what did you get for that little fra song of that little bragging like that to bob woodward? also at the top of that quote, we almost had a nuclear war in 2017 apparently we did. cnn along with the "washington post" also got a copy of bob woodward's book, and they share this
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he reports orn concerns that the u.s. may have come close to nuclear war with north korea, ahmad provocation in 2017. it was so serious that defense secretary james mattis left in his clothes to be ready in case there was a north korean launch. he repeatedly went to the washington national cathedral to pray for the country like i said n a normal world, this is the episode where the president quits. we were on the brink of nuclear war with north korea where the defense secretary was sleeping in his clothes because he believed the nuclear launch from north korea at us might be imminent really the director national intelligence under president trump, the first one, dan coats, listen to this about dan coats woodward writes that dan coats continues to harbor the secret belief, one that has grown rather than lessened, that vladimir putin had something on trump.
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woodward said, quote, how else to explain the president's behavior coats could see no other explanation. woodward writes, coats and his staff members examined the intelligence as close as carefully as possible, and coats still questions the relationship between trump and vladimir putin. coats saw how extraordinary it was for the president's top intelligence official to harbor such suspicion about the president's relationship with putin, but still he could not shake those suspicions that's the president's own direct over national intelligence for what it's worth, this lines up directly and exactly with the views of the former top counterintelligence official at the fbi who has a new book on trump that is just out now that is called "compromised." >> look, i recruited spies for two decades. what it looks like varies.
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on one end you can have somebody who fully knows they're working for you and they're going to do every last thing you say on the other end, you have somebody who doesn't realize they are working for the united states government. president trump lies in the middle do i think he's a mentoring candidate? i don't. do i think he's doing things that's not in the interests of the national security of the united states because of the things that russia holds over him that he does not want known, absolutely i believe that. that, if you step back, if you look at that as a patriot, as an american citizen, that's horrifying, but it exists and it's real and it's something that every american should be concerned about. >> do i think that he is doing things that are not in the national security interest of the united states because of the things russia is holding over him that he does not want known? absolutely, i believe that former top intelligence official
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in the fbi peter strzok has been demonized for his role of the russia investigation. he's going to be here on this show tomorrow night. his book is astonishing. given his take on the president was apparently shared by the national intelligence director, it seems like a good time to talk with mr. strzok and now on top of that tonight there is this. senior homeland security official alleges in a whistle-blower complaint, reported today b shane harris, a senior department of homeland security official alleges that he was told to stop providing intelligence interference in the 2020 election in part because it made the president looked bad. the official who until recently was in charge of analysis and
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security said in a whistle-blower complaint today that on two occasions he was told to stand down on reporting about a russian threat on july 8th this year, he says acting home land secretary chad wolf told him that an intelligence notification regarding russian disinformation efforts should be, quote, held because it was unflattering to trump. the official alleges and ongoing efforts -- chad wolf told him to stop producing intelligence assessment in russia he said these instructions originated from the white house, from white house national security adviser robert o'brien. this is a serving official in the trump administration he has filed an official whistle-blower complaint, which we can read. the "post" and house
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intelligence committee published the whistle-blower complaint you can read the whole thing this is a remarkable thing he's being directed and it embarrasses the president, stop producing intelligence assessment about russia interference in an effort to re-elect the president i want to point out one aspect of this that i am not sure it is widely discussed it strikes me as quite bad the kind of reports described here in this whistle-blower complaint, homeland security intelligence report, they're not the kind of thing that gets a full public airing they're not fully declassified and distributed for the public to read. maybe they sometimes get distributed to the public and maybe they don't as the "post" reports on the whistle-blower complaint, these reports are what they really use to share with the fbi and other
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federal law enforcement with state and local government so those entities can protect and take steps to protect the country. this is from homeland security, reporting about the warnings this is not just about public statements this is not just that the trump administration holds this stuff back or the public does not hear things or contradicts president trump. he does not like to hear about that they are blocking these intelligence reports to law enforcement and to state and local officials so that those entities don't get notified about what this intelligence knows what is russia is doing to mess with our elections, to re-elect trump if you don't tell law enforcement what we know about russia is doing, that's a great way to keep america a nice, soft target for whatever russia is doing this time to get him elected. right? don't say anything about what we know they're doing don't alert the cops just let it out.
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that's what this whistle-blower is blowing the whistle on right now today in the middle of all this other stuff the former head of homeland security joins us next these folks, they don't have time to go to the post office
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from our current vantage point it may seem like it's from a galaxy far, far away. it's in addition to everything else that happened this year. 2020 also included the impeachment trial of an american preside president, the heart of the trump impeachment that was an explosive whistle-blower's complaint. the president with holding military aid to ukraine to help with his re-election campaign. it was the housing intelligence committee that announced to subpoena for that
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whistle-blower's complaint on september 13th, 2019, about two weeks went by and they got the complaint. but the complaint, we're learning of the existence of it and seeing the substance of it. that was how the impeachment began and the president was impeached. they put him on trial and the senate, all republican senators voted except for one. voted to keep him in office. here we are. today almost a year after we learned of the first whistle-blower's complaint that led to the president's impeachment. today we got word of this news that seems to be moving even faster. this headline in the "washington post," the whistle-blower accusing trump appointees of downplaying russian interference and white supremacy -- excuse me. i said the "washington post" but it is the cnn headline.
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house intelligence committee released the complaint in the same day. both times murphy said he objected and then he was removed from his job and demoted. the demotion, the alleged retaliation for his righteous objections to the sort of political manipulation of intelligence that he's complaining about in his whistle-blower complaint, that's the basis for legal action that will go forward around this complaint now. now, i should tell you, the intelligence kminlt kmit tee is going great guns on this along with the complaint dated yesterday, and they published it today. the committee has also published a letter providing testimony of brian murphy, very soon, september 21st at 10:00 a.m. joining us now is jeh johnson. he's served under president obama and former attorney general. secretary johnson, it's great having you here. thank you for taking the time. >> thanks for having me rachel. >> the way i've described the
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reporting, i've read the report, the "washington post" and other news organizations describing it, i want to ask you if you think there's anything important that's being left out or i might be looking at it the wrong way. >> i think it's important, rachel, that we see this as part of a larger, very disturbing picture. first, as you alluded to in your last block, the intelligence a d all cyst is responsible for virtual information sharing between the federal government and local and state governments. when it comes to the election space, that means information and intelligence sharing with state election officials because it's state election officials who run our country. what's disturbing to me about this latest report is that it seems to be part of a larger pattern of trying to put the lid on information and intelligence
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that i believe the american people absolutely need to know as well as their state election officials. we know from reporting about odni, we know publicly that the dni has directed his intelligence community to stop holding hearings, to stop talking to congressional oversight. and why that's so important is this is an ongoing information operation directed at the american people, and the american people have a right to know what is being done to try to get into our heads and influence our votes and how we think about the candidates. but even more disturbing, rachel, is a report from late july from odni. this is one that got through that says in addition to the information on, our adversaries also seek to compromise our election infrastructure and we continue to monitor malicious cyber actors trying to get access to u.s., state, and federal networks, including
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those responsible for managing elections. and so all the lights on the dashboard should be blinking red at the same time as this administration seems to want to put a lid on getting this valuable information out to the american people. >> and let me get specific about that, too, because i hear you salu absolutely, but are these types of intelligence reports directed toward other law enforcement agencies and elected officials, are they designed to help us harden ourselves as a target against this sort of thing? it's one thing for the public to be aware. that's obviously important particularly when it's disinformation targeting the american public burke when it is about infrastructure and voter registration setups and voting tabulation setups and those things, presumably this is the sort of thing that's designed to make us fight against these
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operations, not just know about them. >> absolutely. dhs, the fbi, should be notifying state election officials about exactly what the nature of this effort is to get into election infrastructure that this one public report is telling us about. it's vital because, rachel, as you know, the way our elections are decided, they're decided in precious few states by swing voters in those states, and so this election is going to be decided in a few crucial precincts. you talked about tv? the writers of the tv show "house of cards" figured this out. so it wouldn't be that hard for russians to figure out. >> all right. god, that is scary. jeh johnson, homeland security secretary of president obama. thank you very much for talking with us. i feel like we're in this
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remarkable moment where you have existing officials in the current administration filing whistle-blower complaints, former officials such as yourself saying all the alarms are blinking red, and we the public are trying to make sense of it all, in what looks like a huge mess. thank you for being here and speaking so clearly. >> thank you. one more thing about the whistle-blower and the house intelligence committee calling for his testimony later this month, we spoke with the attorney for the whistle-blower tonight who told us that whether or not brian murphy does end up testifying to congress, will defend on factor tos beyond his control, including whether the homeland security department where he still works allows him to show up and talk. this is very much a live issue. stay tuned. we'll be right back. ssue stay tuned we'll be right back.
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just before the fourth of
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july, the governor of south dakota went on fox news to announce sort of excitedly that president trump's big campaign at mt. rushmore would not require attendees to wear masks, hooray, and there would be no social distancing, yay. and sure enough a big mostly maskless crowd packed in for president trump's rally there. then south dakota refused to have a mask requirement or any kind of change in plans annually for the annual sturgis motorcycle rally last month which attracted upwards of 4,000 people. it has now been linked to hundreds of new coronavirus cases and at least one death. cases in south dakota doubled in the two weeks after the event. there's a study out today that projects that the sturgis rally alone may have led to an astonishing new number of covid infections. south dakota governor christie gnome has defended the denialist
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state saying they will not listen to so-called experts. as of today, south dakota has the highest number of covid cases per capita in the whole country. south dakota leaders refuse to take measures to stop the spread of covid. they'll jekted the warnings of the pointy-headed so-called experts, and now here we are. where does this crazy denialism come from? obviously particularly when it comes to republican politicians, it comes from the top, and that's part of what makes the revelations today from bob woodward's new book so stomach-churning, the real-world consequences of this stuff. the reports today, recordings of the president during the pandemic telling woodward wildly different things about the coronavirus than he was telling
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the public, it's not just a political story where the president says one thing in private and then other things in public. he said things in public that we now know he knew to be untrue, things that have deathly real-world public health consequences. here's what he was saying in an interview with bob woodward all the way back on february 7th. >> it goes through air, bob. that's always tougher than the touch. you know, the touch, you don't have to touch things, right? the air, you breathe the air and that's how it's passed. that's a very tricky one. that's a very delicate one. it's also more deadly than your -- you know, even your strenuous news. you know, people don't realize, we lose 25,000, 30,000 a people here a year. who would every think that. >> i know. it's amazing. >> this is more deadly. this is five per -- you know, this is 5% versus 1% and less
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than 1%, so this is, you know, deadly stuff. >> this is deadly stuff. president trump, a recorded interview with bob woodward on february 7th, very easterly, explicitly acknowledging the coronavirus is way more dangerous than the flu. this is deadly stuff. that same month to the public he used the example of the flu to tell the american people the exact opposite story, that coronavirus was far less dangerous than the flu. >> i want you to understand something that shocked me when i saw it. i spoke with dr. fauci on this, and i was really amazed, and i think most people are amazed to hear it. the flu in our country kills from 25,000 people to 69,000 people a year. that was shocking to me. and so far if you look at what we have with the 15 people and
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their recovery, one is -- one is pretty sick, but hopefully will recover. but the others are in great shape. but they of that. 25,000 to 69,000 ov. over the last ten years, we've lost 360,000. these are people who have died from flu, what we call the flu. >> president trump in february, right? we have only 15 coronavirus cases this. is so much less serious than the flu, right? then the very next day it was this. >> it's going to disappear. one day it's like a miracle. it will disappear. >> a couple weeks later, he's back on the phone with bob woodward, not only talking more about how covid is super serious but admitting to woodward skplisicily he likes to play down its seriousness in public. >> now it's turning out it's not just old people, bob. just today and yesterday, some
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startling facts came out. it's not just older. i wanted to always play it down. i still like playing it down because i don't want to create a panic. >> i wanted to always play it down. i still like playing it down. that was march. and, boy, the president sure did keep on playing it down. not that serious. it's going away. now we know that in april he was saying to bob woodward, quote, it's a horrible thing, it's unbelievable, quote, it's so easily transmittable, you wouldn't even believe it. meanwhile he's going on attack to reduce transmission among other things, wearing masks, deriding that, making fun of that. try to imagine learning something worse about the way a world leader dealt with coronavirus. this is kind of the worst thing you can imagine. not being confused, being too dense to understand the reality of it, not getting it and deliberately lying people about not only how serious it is, but how much they are at risk of getting it.
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and it's not the news here. it's also the tape. it's the tape of him admitting it. boy, did i want to play that down. you wouldn't believe how deadly it is. can you believe you could get this thing? way worse. this is the part in the tv series where the president resigns. he's not resigning. he's running on the strength of his record and the final weeks of this campaign will apparently be in part about just how many american lives the president of the united states sacrificed by choosing deliberately to play down a threat that he knew was far, far worse than he led on. >> on the day that we hit 190,000 dead in the united states because of covid-19, we just learned from the "washington post" columnist bob woodward that the president of the united states has admitted on tape in february he knew about covid-19 that had passed
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through the air. he knew how deadly it was. it was much more deadly than the flu. he knew and purposely played it down. worse, he lied to the american people. he knowingly and willingly lied about the threat it posed to the country for months. he had the information. he knew how dangerous it was. while this deadly disease rip tlood u our nation, he failed to do his job on purpose. it was a life-and-death betrayal of the american people. experts say if he acted just one week sooner, 36,000 people would have been saved. if he acted two weeks sooner back in march, 54,000 lives would have been spared in march and april alone. >> he failed to do his job on purpose, a life-and-death betrayal of the american people. that is what president trump's opponent for the presidency has to say about president trump's
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actions here. thousands and thousands and thousands of americans dead who didn't have to die had the president just said in public what he admits in private he knew. is that what public health experts think as well? hold that thought. experts think? hold that thought. to switch plans? start with looking for a medicare advantage plan with $0 premiums? it's in the bag. what about a plan with affordable out-of-pocket costs? it's in the bag. even a plan with expansive provider networks, it's in the bag. call or click now for my medicare guide, free. it's in the bag. mychoice, mymedicareplan, click or call today to speak with a local licensed insurance agent.
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joining us now is dr. carlos del rio. he's an infectious disease expert. it's a real honor to have you with us tonight. thanks for taking some time to be here. >> happy to be here. >> this audio, we can hear the president telling woodward privately at the very beginning of february, you just breathe the air, that's how it's passed, it's a delicate one, it's a tricky one. this is worse than the flu. it's deadly stuff, deadlier than
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the flu. in march he admits i always wanted to play it down. meanwhile, publicly he was saying that it would disappear and 99% of cases are harmless and it is going to fade away. in your view is somebody that knows these things well, do you believe lives would have been saved if the president publicly stated in february, had matched what he explained, his understanding, could a lot of lives potentially have been saved? >> there's no doubt about that. working in a pandemic, in a crisis, in a war in the natural disaster. almost 200,000 have died of this disease. we have not had a national strategy. the president has spoken with people who know what they're
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doing. he simply chose not to communicate that and has downplayed the crisis. there's not a national strategy. and we, all of us, are paying the consequences. >> when you hear the president's remarks -- and, again, keeping in mind the time frame in which he was speaking, early february, mid-march, when he is talking about his own understanding through his briefings that this is a very transmittable virus, that you can get it through breathing, that it is not just the old, it's also younger people who are at risk of these things, that this is much more serious than the flu, when you hear him articulate those things, and, again, it's a world away from what he was saying in public, do you believe that he understood privately, he was willing to privately articulate what he knew was actually true about the virus at the time? that to me sounds more scientifically sound than what we've heard him say publicly. >> i think without a doubt. dr. fauci, dr. birx with with
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him frequently. he heard the briefings from the coronavirus task force. he understands the situation. what he communicates is a different story. i have no doubt that the information conveyed to him by the experts was real, and what you're seeing is what all of us experts knew back then. that's when we were in shock, to hear the president get on a press conference and say something that doesn't make sense. we were wondering, is he getting advice he needs? having spoken to dr. birx, dr. fauci, i can tell you he was getting advice. >> today broke sort of a disturbing story. they got emails that show political appointees without much health expertise essentially trying to muzzle dr. fauci in particular, a trump administration administration appointee dictating what dr. fauci should say during interviews, telling dr. fauci that he should stop recommending that kids should ever wear
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masks, saying there should be fewer tests done of people who don't have covid symptoms, for example, and dr. fauci's team has definitely pushed back and said nobody has been able to tell him what he can and cannot say, but clearly these emails are evidence that there has been an effort to steer these public health leaders away from the public health message that they believe the public needs to hear. does it surprise you to hear about that reporting or to know that that's been happening? >> it's not surprising, but on the other hand, i can tell you nobody silences dr. fauci, and dr. fauci has been -- if i can think about one person who has spoken the truth about this pandemic, it's him, and he has managed to find a way to speak the truth, whether it's through a press conference or whether he could don't a press conference. he would do a podcast, do grand rounds. dr. fauci is a national hero. he's worked hard and tirelessly
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through this pandemic during a difficult time, and he's done all he can, and we should be very, very proud we have him in that position but he could have easily said, i have no time for this, but he's doing what he's doing and he continues to push because he believes in science and public health, and his role is to save lives and tell the truth. >> dr. carlos del rio. it's an honor to have you hear today. thank you for your time. >> delighted to be with you. >> all right. we'll be right back. stay with us. >> all right we'll be right back. stay with us
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that is going to do it for us tonight. i will see you again tomorrow night when my guest will be former i counterintelligence director peter strzok. that's an interview i think you're going to want to see. i think you'll be interested in that. "first look" is up next. this morning massive fallout after the president admitted in his own words on tape he intentionally downplayed the threat of coronavirus in order to avoid panicking the public. and in another new revelation the president told bob woodward he does not believe because of his privileged upbringing he has to understand, quote, the anger and feelings of pain by black americans. and a former official is accusing top appointees in the homeland security of