tv Politics Nation MSNBC February 7, 2021 2:00pm-3:00pm PST
made-for-television spectacle, the impeachment of donald j. trump part two. if we're lucky, it will be the final chapter in the trump political saga, and true to form, the preparations have been contentious and chaotic. we still don't know how long the trial will last or if there will be any witnesses. we can reasonably be sure we will not hear from trump himself. which is just as well, because there's nothing he could say to justify his actions. this is a man who took an oath to preserve and protect the constitution, who for months spread lies about a stolen election, ignoring evidence to the contrary. a commander in chief who tried to bully state and local officials to throw out thousands, if not millions, of legal votes. even after those officials begged him to stop and told him
he was endangering their lives. a head of state who called his supporters to the capitol on january 6th, whipped them up into an angry mob, and then told them to descend upon a co-equal branch of government and, quote, fight like hell. "the washington post" estimates trump's election lie has cost the country $519 million in increased security, legal fees, and property repair, and there is the human cost. a capitol police officer beaten to death, two others dead by suicide, three trump supporters who believed trump's lies and paid with their lives. and another hidden cost -- valuable time wasted as trump delayed the transition in the middle of a pandemic. and the fact the senate will likely start the trial while the
still hasn't passed a desperately needed coronavirus relief bill. joining me now is the house majority whip, congressman jim clyburn, democrat of south carolina. thank you for being with us, mr. congressman. >> thank you very much for having me. >> let me ask you this. 45 republican senators have already voted to dismiss the impeachment, claiming the trial is unconstitutional because trump has already left office. do you believe any of those republicans who voted to dismiss might turn around and vote to convict? and if not, what is the point in your opinion of these proceedings? >> well, first of all, i do believe that it's a possibility that some of them will change their minds and vote to convict. now, there question is whether or not we'll get to the number 17. which is what we need. that means we'll need 12 more to change their minds, and i'm not
too sure that can occur. but i was not of the belief that 56 of the american people as of today would say that he deserves being convicted. and if that's true, and i think we're going to see a pretty prolific case put on by the managers, and so we may get more to vote that way. but i don't think we'll get to 17. >> is it important, as you outline that there's going to be a prolific case by the managers that are going to present the case, is it important for the public to see a lot of what they're presenting? and if you don't get the 17 republicans in the senate, that you can at least influence public opinion and especially those that may feel something was being overcharged or
overdone with the impeachment in the house? >> that's exactly what i think. and i think that's why it's so important to have this trial. you know, i always say that we sitting there in washington, that's america's classroom. as you know, i used to teach history. i can tell you, i always directed my young people to look toward their leadership in order to determine how to conduct themselves. i always thought that the people in that capitol building would be people who would be manifestations of what our constitution is all about and what this country's promise is all about. and so i do believe very strongly that though they may not convict him, i think if the managers put on the kind of case that i think they will put on, it will be educational to the american people. it would be directional for people who want to run for
office in the future, how to conduct themselves, and i think our children will learn a lot and know how to look to this country for service if that's what they want to do. >> now, trump's lawyers are reportedly planning a defense that includes footage of democrats voicing support for black lives matter demonstrations, for republicans who are still confused or pretending to be confused, can you explain the difference between the protests against police brutality that many of us engaged in last year and happened over the summer, and that of an insurrection that occurred on january 6th? >> it's right there in the two words. it's one thing to protest. but it's something else to invite insurrection. and what this president did was invite insurrection. now, if i'm protesting against the action of police officers, which i have done a lot, or even
against the state, which i have done a lot, it's one thing to deny me a seat at the counter or make me go to the back of the bus, but it's something else to invite an insurrection to overthrow this government. a coup d'etat. this is what this man was attempting to do, but i was not surprised. you recall i had been saying if three years now, he did not intend to leave the office, so i was not surprised at what he did. and i should hope that the american people will look at this and will say to their children and to others that this is not the way this country is to operate. >> let me switch gears for a minute. we're out of time, but i want to switch to coronavirus. you said as recently as this morning, you remain hopeful that some republicans will vote for the relief bill. what makes you optimistic, and what, if anything, will president biden and the
democrats have to give up to get bipartisan support? >> well, i think that the president has made it very clear that he is looking to negotiate on things like money. we were calling for $2,000 last december. could not get the senate to go beyond $600, so we're now putting in the other $1400 to put it to the $2,000 he promised, and the president said he's not going to back away from it. if they say it shouldn't go to people who make over $175,000, though i think in some places if you have six or seven children and you're trying to get them educated and taken care of, you may ought to be eligible to get some of this money because you can do the grounds of a scale, so i think we would look at where to target the resources and maybe rather than doing it for ten months or 12 months, you may look at six months to see
whether or not the economy will improve according to projections. so these kinds of things you can negotiate. but on the size of the check, no. we're going to get to the $2,000 that we promised by adding this $1400 to the $600 they have already gotten. >> all right. congressman jim clyburn, thanks for being on, as always. joining me now is debra archer, newly elected president of the american civil liberties union and the first black woman in the 100-year history of the organization to hold that title. and she is here for her first television interview in this new role. thank you for being here, and congratulations to you. >> thank you very much. >> tell us about your election to the new role and what's next for the aclu. >> thank you for having me. the aclu has really been an important part of my
professional life for about two and a half decades, so i'm really excited to serve the organization in this role. i became a civil rights lawyer for really intensely personal reasons. i wanted to fight for the rights of people like me and families like mine, to live without discrimination and with dignity and respect. i started my career as a legal fellow with the acl sxurx serving as president of the board now during this time is really an honor, and certainly the ultimate opportunity to both serve the aclu and support the work of dismantling inequality and building a real infrastructure for equality. and the significance of being the first person of color to serve in this role is not lost on me. but i do want to put it in a little bit of context. in over 100 years, the aclu has only had seven other presidents so i'm just the eighth, and there's a big part of me that's frustrated in 2021, we're still tackling so many firsts for black women and people of color,
but it doesn't change the fact that i'm proud to be a part of that history. in terms of what's next for the organization and for me, i'm looking forward to working closely with our board to make sure that the aclu has all of the tools it needs to rise to this moment. just as we rose to the moment following the election of donald trump. there really is so much at stake right now in our society. and we have to work to address that toxic legacy, and also we have an opportunity and responsibility to advance important work, to build infrastructure for equality, to expand civil rights and civil liberties, and to deepen our work on social justice. >> tell us about the new platform the aclu is launching this week. >> yeah. at its core, the work of the aclu is about closing the gap of the america that was promised and the america that is and fighting to advance racial justice has been central to the work of the aclu since our
inception. if we're going to achieve that goal, we have to challenge how racism persists in its power. our systemic equality agenda is a comprehensive racial justice agenda to eradicate the vestiges of colonization, slavery, and jim crow to identify and challenge the modern tools of racial inequality and really to prioritize political, social, and economic inequality. and also, like the aclu, our systemic equality agenda is really going to cover the waterfront of issues, and like the challenges that are facing black communities and other communities of color, the work is and will be intersectional. it's going to include protecting and expanding voting rights, passing legislation on reparations. challenging residential segregation, expanding access to safe and affordable housing, addressing the racial wealth gap, and expanding financial services through the post office. >> in this new age technology,
what is the aclu's first amendment concerns when it comes to web platforms and social media? >> yeah, that's an important question. i think it's a common misperception that the first amendment goes beyond protecting us against government interference with speech. so companies like twitter and facebook and amazon are not the government. social media users don't have a first amendment right to speak on private platforms. and in fact, the companies have first amendment associational rights to decide what kind of communities they want to host. it's also true, the freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences. so often exercising speech will mean that some people and businesses will not want to do business with you. or not want to be associated with you. for donald trump, for example, he repeatedly violated terms of service and used his platform to undermine democracy by casting doubt on the election results.
and few companies would want to be associated with or offer their platforms to trump right now, and i think that that's within their rights. having said that, when social media giants, which enjoy unparalleled status, as spaces for political speech and debate, exercise that right to exclude speakers on the basis of view point, there really is cause for concern. >> aclu president debra archer, congratulations again, and thank you for being with us. >> thank you for having me. >> a quick programming note, tonight on american voices, actors daniel dae kim and daniel wu join alicia menendez, together with activist amanda winn to discuss what they're doing to fight back against the rise of hate crimes toward asian americans, 6:00 eastern on
msnbc. >> talking about this weekend's impeachment of the former president donald trump, joining me is britney cunningham, black lives matter activist and msnbc contributor, and elise jordan, former aide to george w. bush in the white house and an msnbc political analyst. elise, let me go to you first. all previous impeachments, including the first trump impeachment, have included everyday legal charges like obstruction of justice or perjury, and while those are serious crimes, particularly from a president, we have never seen anything like this trump charge, incitement to insurrection. do you think we have lost sight of the seriousness of the crime in all of the political maneuvering around the trial? >> absolutely. i mean, you go back to the day of the january 6th insurrection, and what did donald trump say to
his supporters at a stop the steal rally shortly before this capitol was stormed? he said if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore. if that isn't incitement, i don't know what is. going into this impeachment,ia see the american public overwhelmingly does support it. it's a narrow majority, but there's a new abc poll that about 56% of those polled think that, yes, donald trump deserves to be impeached and that furthermore, he should be censored and banned further from holding higher office in the future. i do hope the seriousness of the moment is appreciated, not lost in all of the political chaos because this is what happened a month ago cannot ever be deemed acceptable for an american leader to get away with inciting a coup. >> britney, the first trump impeachment trial, he came into the proceedings with ten lawyers
and a straight party-line vote in the house. this time around, though, former president has just two lawyers and ten republicans joined democrats in the impeachment vote. how does that change the dynamic, if at all, to you? >> well, before i get started, i have to say, happy colin kaepernick appreciation day. but i do think that these distinctions really matter, because donald trump's team is shrinking. there are fewer people, as has already been said, that actually believe what he says is true. and are willing to stake their professional reputations on it. but here's what's more important, that we continue to deal with what the left hand is doing while always being careful to watch what the right hand is doing. donald trump is not someone who is going to just choose one strategy and try to defeat this insurrection charge. he's going to continue to try to engage in a rehabilitation tour, as are the rest of his ilk around the country so that he can plant the seeds not only for
him to continue to make money and potentially run for office again, but for the gop to continue to rise again in ways we are seen over the last couple years. it's going to be critically important that we make sure we have six in one hand and half a dozen in the others, and all of it requires our attention. >> former president trump has reportedly asked his legal team to refer to him as the 45th president, rather than the former president. which seems to undermine one of the republicans' main arguments, which is that trump cannot be impeached because he no longer holds office. could trump's stubborn insistence on clinging to his big lie about the election end up hurting him in the senate, elise? in the senate in terms of this trial? >> i really wonder if anything is going to move the republicans at this point who have said all but five republicans have declared that doing this impeachment is unconstitutional.
so are we really going to have enough republican senators come over to get that magic number 17 where donald trump would actually be convicted? i really don't think that any of donald trump's antics are unfortunately weighing against him because so many republicans have calculated it still is in their political self-interest to cling to donald trump's coat tails. >> well, britney, it is interesting to me, they say they're going to play some democrats and some of the sporadic violence that happened last year. and they are planned to reportedly use that for their defense. i have been involved in marches and demonstrations for years, all the way up till now. you have been involved for the last several years, but i don't think any of us has ever been accused of trying to have an
insurrection or have called on violence, even if some violence happened days away from us, where you directly could even try to conjure this up. let alone on members of congress. how do they think this is going to work? no one called for anyone to stop the certification of an election, which is a coup d'etat by definition. >> that's right. what we have called for, and what we have consistently been calling for, is the ability to live, breathe, rest, raise our children, raise our families, and make a living in peace. like all americans, like all people deserve to be able to do. that's very different from complaining because the election doesn't go your way, and then attempting, like you said, a coup on the united states capitol. 93% of those protests from over the summer were without incident, and we know much of the 7% was actually created by many of the same kinds of white
supremacists who marched on the capitol in january 6th. so instead of worrying about a peaceful nonviolent movement that will continue to push for our rights, congress should be worried about passing a bill for $2,000 monthly survival checks for the american people. they should be worried about ending a pandemic that has killed nearly half a million people in a year, starting today. we should make sure that they're holding insurrectionists accountable, and that they are actually setting a precedent so this cannot happen again. that requires continuing to impeach and convict donald j. trump, and it also required expelling the 147 republicans who voted to overturn the voice of the american people. that is what congress needs to concern itself with, and that's what the american people will expect of them. >> all right. activist britney, and elise
jordan, thank you for being with us. >> coming up, how other countries are dealing with white supremacy as the united states seems divided on how to deal with the long-standing threat. >> and later, nfl legend jim brown joins me on this super bowl sunday. we'll take a look at his impact on the gridiron and the big screen. but first, my colleague richard lui with today's other top news stories. richard. >> rev, good sunday to you. stories that we're watching for you this hour. the u.s. surpassing 27 million cases of covid-19. the death toll now over 464,000. officials are now adjusting vaccine scheduling in new hampshire. patients complained that second dose appointments not available within the cdc recommended timeframe. so now, all who get first doses automatically are given appointments for a second shot. >> former secretary of state george shultz has died at the age of 100.
shultz served in both the reagan and nixon administrations. he helped guide foreign policy during the final years of the cold war with the soviet union. >> the nfl is making covid safety a top priority in the first socially distanced super bowl tonight. just 25,000 fans allowed into the stadium. masks and hand sanitizers will be distributed. 7500 health care workers got free tickets worth thousands each. hour "politics nation" right after the break. the patented blend is clinically shown to help manage blood sugar levels. boost glucose control products contain high quality protein and key nutrients to support immune health. try boost. ♪♪ for skin as alive as you are... don't settle for silver 7 moisturizers 3 vitamins 24 hours hydration gold bond champion your skin
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and prevent any planned violent actions from this group. meanwhile, here in the united states, our approach leaves a lot to be desired. you might remember the proud boys as one faction of a white supremacist threat that the former president was asked to condemn in a debate. instead, he infamously said this. >> i want to see peace. >> then do it, sir. >> say it. >> you want to call them -- what do you want to call them? >> white supremacists. proud boys. >> proud boys, stand back and stand by. >> and stand by, they did. so far, at least six individual members of this chauvinistic white supremacist hate group have been charged with coordinating part of the january 6th attack on our capitol and our democracy. and yet, evidence of their part in a conspiracy to stop the
lawful transfer of power has not been enough to keep these insurrectionists in custody. dozens of people arrested for their actions on january 6th have been released on bond. if a deadly insurrection wasn't enough, what will it take before we as a nation take the threat of these violent white supremacist groups seriously? as canada took swift action this week, our own federal law enforcement ordered a, quote, review of the problem. to perhaps be addressed by more resources some time in the nebulous future. you might think that the fbi would already have a good grasp of the depth of white supremacist activity seeing as the leader of the proud boys was reportedly one of their most prolific informants. but the federal government has been sweeping this kind of right-wing extremist threat under the rug for over a decade. in 2009, a then senior analyst
of the department of homeland security issued a report warning of the growing white nationalist terrorist threat. republicans objected to the classification of this threat as right-wing, and the entire unit responsible for the report was disbanded within a year. this isn't a new problem in the united states. america has spent centuries downplaying the harm of the racist legacy of slavery and jim crow. acting as if white supremacy is a mere difference of opinion and allowing hate groups to rally around a confederate battle flag that flew as enslavers fought to keep our ancestors in bondage. and for all those who claim that the stars and bars is just a harmless piece of fabric, that its display isn't racist, i say look to germany, which had its own white supremacist genocide
80 years ago and banned the symbol of that regime in an attempt at healing its deep national wounds. today, white supremacists in germany fly the confederate battle flag in its place. they know its history, even if some americans refuse to see it. as the great black american poet maya angelou said, when people show you who they are, believe them the first time. the white nationalist fringe has been very clear about for decades about its goals. these people are people who have hatred in their hearts and violence on their minds. it's a long past and long past time for our government to take this threat seriously. because these white supremacist extremists are deadly serious. we'll be right back. you need only the freshest milk and cream. that one! and the world's best, and possibly only, schmelier.
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and senate passed new legislation that will end the death penalty, slating the state to be the 23rd in the nation to end capital punishment. the move pushed by the democratic majority in that state. but what does that mean for the federal death penalty? in 2020 alone, president trump allowed the executions of 17 prisoners to occur. joining me now is congressman adriano espuought, who introduced legislation for the federal death penalty abolition act earlier this year. before we get to the death penalty, congressman, tell us briefly about your resolution to designate the proud boys as a domestic terrorist organization. >> myself and congressman chuy garcia from chicago, illinois, have introduced that legislation because they're in fact a terrorist organization.
they coordinated and led the assault against democracy that ended in the death of five people, including a capitol police officer. as such, i believe they meet the qualifications of what a domestic terrorist group is. when we take an oath of office, we say that we will protect the constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. they are clearly domestic enemies. >> all right, now, you introduced this in the last month to your colleagues in the house. it's been endorsed by 200 organizations like the naacp and the southern poverty law center. the death penalty has been called by critics as inherently racist. now with a new administration in power, you wrote a letter to the attorney general calling for the federal death penalty to end. do you think this will be the year that it happens?
>> i am optimistic, rev, that this will be the year. we have over 70 sponsors of the bill that was introduced in 2019, the same day that former attorney general barr announce heed would resume the executions. and again, this year, we reintroduced it on the first day of session. as you said, 200 organizations are supporting it. we want to codify, we want to abolish it in law. in the meantime, we want to see the federal government take steps not to pursue any capital cases to dismantle the death chamber in indiana, and to take federal measures that will prevent anyone from being put to death again. >> yeah, because even during the lame duck part of president trump, there were several federal executions that he allowed to go through before the
inauguration of joe biden. in virginia, governor northup agreed he will sign the bill into law once he receives it, but before it gets signed, state lawmakers need to work out if those who were sentenced to death, should they now get life in prison or the possibility of parole. what do you think? >> well, while we're asking is for a resentencing of anybody on death row. 20 states and the district of columbia have already outlawed it, and several governors have already done that. we saw how virginia will be the first state in the south to do that, and as you know, reverend, the death penalty has its roots very deeply in the lynching of people of color -- black men and black women in the south, so we want this abolished once and for all. we think this is the year. trump engaged in a rush to execute as many people as possible as he was kicked out of office.
including people with mental illness, a woman for the first time in 70 years, and of course, a 41% of the people on death row are black people. >> now, we're out of time, but you were wary about ending the death penalty, whether at a state or federal level, through the use of the executive order. explain why. >> well, the executive order could always change with a new president in office. we want to make sure that it is abolished in the law itself that is codified and made permanent. >> all right, congressman, thank you for being with us. coming up, the man, the myth, the legend. i'm joined by nfl great jim brown on this super bowl sunday for his take on race relations in the sports world and the film that's managed to capture his greatness. that's after the break. stay with us.
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greatest of the national football league. it was the first household name of the nfl that he was, and to this day, the prototypical running back and after he ended his football career on his own terms and spoke truth to power while doing so, his larger than life physique and mystique carried him over onto the silver screen, where he became the first black action star. and he's getting the star treatment all over again for his portrayal in regina king's "one night in miami" which dominated golden globe nominations this past week. joining me now, the legend himself, his friend muhammad ali would say the greatest of all times, mr. jim brown. thank you for being with us tonight, mr. brown. >> it is great to be here. it's a great introduction. thank you very much. >> well, let me say this. this is "politics nation," not
sports nation, but i have always recognized the difficult position that modern black athletes find themselves in, and you and muhammad ali, bill russell, and others, used your platform in the 1960s to condemn the conditions of that time. here, for example, is a photo of you meeting with president lyndon johnson. what do you think of the engagement we have seen in today's competitors in the wnba and nba players like lebron james, but you started, you were the ones, the first one to do this at the height of your career. >> well, i appreciate the way that you put that. but i won't criticize these youngsters because they're dealing with a different time than we dealt with. at the particular time that we came together, we had to come together. you know, we had character, all of us, but we had to come
together because the particular time in the country. and now, you have a different situation, and it calls for different action. so lebron james, my guy, you know, he's a leader out there, and he makes a lot that you hear about, so i'm not going to criticize him because they came up in a different time, and it's more difficult now to do what we did, because we had to do it and wanted to do it. and got together to do it. >> let me get into this film a minute, jim. regina king's film "one night in miami." she's up for a golden globe, as are some of the actors and writers. i feel like a new generation is learning. not just what you did on the football field but also the stances you took as a man, as a black man and a commodity in an era where it was literally you and a handful of others in your
respective sports that had that kind of clout. i know you lived it, but does the film capture the stakes of the time and that one night, does it honestly show us how it was? you, muhammad ali, sam cook, who was a huge singer at that time, and malcolm x, together the night ali first won the title. >> absolutely. and i want to think regina, because you know, she really laid it out. and it's very seldom you're going to have four finer individuals of weight, that kind of energy, and then the opportunity to present this and say to us, we're all friends. we all stood up, and we all wanted to go down in history. >> now, i want to get back to the nfl before we run out of time, because of the game tonight, with black quarterback on the kansas city side.
but give us your thoughts on whether the nfl itself has moved meaningfully on race issues. some of these other leagues, nba, nascar, and so forth. do you think you have seen progress on the race issue in sports? >> yes, i believe we have. and you know, when you look out there now, you see a lot of us like you and i, and they have come to represent us and to have us be represented. and to have us represent ourselves. and it's very difficult when it's about color. but we have to understand something, it's hard for children to understand and it's hard to come together on an economic basis and make things happen. but lebron is leading the way.
i'm sure that these young men are going to do the right thing. >> that has been something you have done since i was a kid, looking up to you. dealt with black economics, do for ourselves, and you have not stopped. i remember our national action network >> well, i tell you. and, the headline, one that was basically understanding economics in america opinion understanding you had to come together and utilize your money. you had to be an outstanding citizen. over the years, a lot of young
men would -- excuse me. e didn't mean to say that. a lot of young men of today that didn't understand how to go about that. the black presented itself in manner to give them a boost so ta could be effective as we were back if earlier days in the '60s. to same cal bar and the same caliber of physicality that those in individuals who stoods up had. you look at history, you can't really judge anybody but the fact that maybe they didn't leave up to what was going on
among activity and i understand they're in a different time, a different age. a-is it was a different time and should be looked upon that and given credit for dealing with the times now. >> before i let you go, do you have a super bowl pick for tonight, jim brown? >> i'm fortunate i don't have to be a pick. i love the fact that you have these two teams out there. i'm going to say the best man wins. >> all right. you been the best man for decades and we're honored you came on tonight during black history month and we're honored that you still working on the front lines being the role model of doing something for those in the community. jim brown, the greatest of all
tonight, in a little over 30 minutes we'll see the kickoff for the super bowl and people around the country will gather, hopefully in small, at home gatherings to watch the game. some will cheer for one team or the other. as we look at the game, suppose if we could get this nation to operate like we operate the super bowl. two different teams but they all have the same yardage p they all have the same offensive and defensive amount of players. no one is given an advantage of certain yards based on their
race or gender or sexual orientation. it's all equal. they compete. they have fans that will cheer them at home and they have those that are against them that will jeer them at home but the results will be what they are as long as the game is fair and we see the rules of the game, the set up of the game, the lout of the field is equal and fair. that's the kind of nation we need. no one having an advantage over disadvantage. every one having equal opportunity. every one having to abide equally by the same rules or suffer the same penalties if they break the rules. the super bowl is instructive of how we should have our society run. if we could get that way, yes, we may agree just like we do
tonight on some teams or disagree on other teams. if it's an even playing field, we all know we have fair shot at winning. that's all people are asking for. that's all people like me have stood for all of our lives, an even playing field and let people win or lose based on equality, fairness and what is right and just. if we can only make super bowl lead us into being a super nation of fairness then as jim brown said, let the best folks win in whatever area of american life. that does it for me. i'll see you back here next weekend at 5:00 p.m. eastern. thank you so much. hello. the nation just days now from the second impeachment trial of
donald j. trump. the question before his jury, did he incite the january 6th riot. the week ahead for congress. it's busy. what could hold up the help that americans so desperately need? with racial attacks targeting asian americans on the rise, we'll talk to actors daniel day kim about their mission to serve justice. this is "american voices." tonight, the big story this week. the second impeachment trial of donald trump. what began as a rally to air unfounded grievances quickly turned into a deadly attack on the nation capitol. the first storm since the war of 1812 as the final cases from
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