sunday morning from 8:00 a.m. to 10:00 a.m. eastern. do not go anywhere because "the sunday show" with jonathan capehart starts right now. have yourself a great week. trump is on the attack against fellow republicans while republicans are on the attack against everyone else. michael steel explains what on earth is going on. a lesson in dealing with the filibuster and the joe manchins of the world from former senate majority leader harry reid. he joins me live. and my legal panel previews derek chauvin's defense. brace yourself. i'm jonathan capehart. this is "the sunday show." this sunday, the republicans are at it again. last night, the former guy, he gave an hour-long speech at a

gathering of gop lawmakers and donors teasing a possible candidacy for 2024 reiterating election lies and slamming mitch mcconnell as a, quote, dumb s.o.b. and a, quote, stone-cold loser. dang. trump also said that mike pence wasn't a, quote, real leader because he refused to seal the election for trump. the same lie that very nearly got pence killed on january 6th. he also continued to claim that he won the election. the same lie that did get five people killed that day. trump made these comments while headlining the republican national committee's retreat which they held at mar-a-lago, trump's private club. the rnc is not only listening to the same man who lost them the house, the senate, the white house and incited an insurrection and got impeached twice, they're subsidizing him. what is going on with the party of lincoln? joining me now is michael

steele, msnbc contributor and, more importantly, former chairman of the republican national committee. chairman steele, welcome back to "the sunday show." >> great to be with you this morning. >> all right. so answer the question. what is going on with your party, with the party of lincoln, assuming you still are a member of the republican party? >> i am a member of the republican party. i very much am behind the party of lincoln, but this is not the party of lincoln. this is the party of trump. we all know this. and what we heard and saw, what has been at least reported out of that gathering at mar-a-lago is just the further dumbing down and just sort of stupification of folks when it comes to trump. i'm less interested in what trump said in the room. i'm more interested in how the people in the room reacted to what he said. and that's where the problem is. donald trump can run his mouth because donald trump is going to run his mouth. it's how the leadership of the

party responds to what he says. so the rnc ponies up $100,000 because nobody else is paying trump $100,000 to do jack, right? so that's number one. number two, they get in the room so they bring in these republican donors, republican legislators and then donald trump rails against them at a dinner that they paid for. he's going after their leadership. and he's continuing to mime on the same points about the election. what was their response and reaction? i suspect it was whooping it up with them. this is the party of trump, not the party of lincoln. >> it's a party of trump, not the party of lincoln, but the republican party is still, to my mind, way out there. i don't understand what's happening. senate minority leader mitch mcconnell is, by no means, a member of the party of trump and yet when it came to corporations

taking a stand in favor of voting rights and against the voter suppression bills happening around the country, here's what he had to say to the business community. >> i found it completely discouraging to find a bunch of corporate ceos getting in the middle of politics. my advice to the corporate ceos of america is to stay out of politics. don't pick sides in these big fights. >> okay. now in fairness to the minority leader, he did try to walk that back because he was like, uh, but still give us money. political contributions. >> that's the point. and he wasn't complaining about all that corporate involvement in politics when they were pushing through the, you know, $1.9 trillion tax cut. they were very much involved with that. so, you know, it's -- i want you involved when it works for me, and the sound bites are good for me. i don't want you involved when they don't.

and that's fine. that -- politicians kind of do that. but the reality still remains for the republican party is that all of those traditional linkages that they've had, whether it's in the corporate community, among activists around the country, that are not trumpified, the party infrastructure itself, there's consistent breakdowns in that. and so the question is, how do you hold it together? >> uh-huh. all right. i've got two questions for you before we broaden this out to the panel. one, why is the party going after trans kids, going after voting rights, basically telling people, don't wear masks. beware of quote/unquote vaccine passports. why are they so much talking about what they are against? where's the positive republican party agenda for america? why isn't there one? >> you can't have a positive, you know, republican agenda for america when you don't even have

a platform that identifies to america what you believe, what you stand for. so number one, the party gave that up in 2020 when they said, oh, we'll just believe whatever donald trump wants us to believe. so there is no -- there's no there, there. two, with respect to transgender children, the votes, whatever it is, that is a combination of both politics and culture. and what they are continuing to do is to mix that deadly brew together in such a way as to prey on the concerns that, you know, families have about, you know, somebody else's transgender child. >> insane. i've got to get you on one more thing and this involves your buddy, the former speaker of the house, john boehner. just want to get your reaction to this little snippet from his audiobook. have a listen. >> take it from me. you'll never know where you'll end up. that's freedom. i'll raise a glass to that any

day. p.s., ted cruz, go [ bleep ] yourself. >> chairman steele -- >> that's my boy. >> i almost cursed on national tv, but he has zero fs to give it would seem. >> none. >> why do you think the former speaker has just been so honest in his new book? >> because without the weight of the office and the protocols and politics that that requires, he is free. he's right. he is the most freed he's ever been, and he is seeing -- he saw firsthand what was happening to the party and could not stop it. and so now he's just putting out the warning flairs. this is what it is. this is who these people are, like ted cruz. and he wants it to be very clear about that. so i toast to him every time i read a chapter from that book.

it's just amazing! >> chairman steele, help me get speaker boehner on my podcast. joining our conversation now is soledad o'brien, president and ceo of soledad o'brien productions and perry bacon jr., senior political writer for fivethirtyeight.com. perry, you had this great piece in fivethirtyeight about the state of the republican party. chairman steele was just talking about how speaker boehner's book is sending up a flare about what's coming for the party. to my mind it seems like the party is foregone. it's done. >> you said mitch mcconnell is not really part of the party of trump. i disagree with that. i think the last four years show most of the quote/unquote establishment republicans who are actually in office, are fully in line with trump and

trumpism. maybe they wouldn't use the language they -- trump uses. they wouldn't say go back to your country. they wouldn't use that rhetoric, but in terms of the actual policies, mitch mcconnell is fully on board. all the republicans are defending this georgia law, for example, from all wings of the party essentially. the republican party is pretty organized and actually has some policies which are basically, how do we maintain the existing racial and economic status quo? so you follow the state policy around the country. they have an agenda. you know, make it harder for black lives matter people to protest. cut taxes. weaken public schools. they have an agenda they are passing like make it harder for people to vote in states all over iowa, florida, georgia, arizona. these voter laws are passing everywhere. so they have an agenda. it's just one to basically own and stop the left. and one reason they're so confident in pushing this is we

haven't come that far. we have a democratic trifecta, but the republicans almost won the senate, almost won the house. trump almost won the presidency. and they gained among latino voters a lot in 2020. so one reason why they are continuing on a course that is in some ways immoral and racist is because this course is not as bad electorally as i thought it would have been. >> right. and i stand corrected. i guess i was giving the minority leader just a little too much credit because even though he voted against impeachment, he did rip on the former guy. soledad, your view. what is going on with the republican party and is it done? >> no, i think it's far from done. i think perry is exactly right. i think michael steele is exactly right. you have a party that recognizes the value of donald trump. let him say those things that are bigoted and racist and sometimes distasteful as long as you can run in later and gather

up those voters and make sure that you get the, you know, as you can see, i think trump's fundraising is often quite good when you're talking about the low-dollar people that continue to send in money. not the times that it's fraudulent but the other times, right? the party sees a tremendous value in donald trump and so they need to keep him a little bit of arm's length but also make sure that they're kind of friendly at the same time. i agree. perry is exactly right. all those things he ticked off are those very things that the party itself is very interested in. so i think it's a win-win. you're talking about culture wars. i don't even think it's culture wars post politics. we'll talk so much more about dr. seuss than we will talk about eradicating child poverty, right? we're not going to go through the detail of a policy but we will start a congressman can sit up there and talk about green eggs and ham and everyone will cover it. that's a win when it comes to these conversations.

>> speaking of win, chairman steele, in the less than a minute we have left. soledad just mentioned fundraising. they're all clutching to former president trump because they need him to raise money. marjorie taylor greene with no committee assignments because of conspiracy theoies and race uft things she said. she reported she raised $3.2 million in the last quarter. 98% of that money came from donations that are under $200. so does that actually feed into what perry was saying and what soledad was agreeing about and that is, you know, the republican party isn't done and that actually there is a ground swell there for the conspiracy theorists for the racists in the party to actually take over the house and the senate in 2022. >> oh, absolutely. i was talking with a number of fundraisers this week who were talking about that small dollar program that they have in place.

and it is very effective. and it is the extremes that are raising the money. you know, the adam kinzingers and folks like that, they're doing okay, you know, but they're not raising $3 million in 30 days. that's the difference. and so to soledad's point, that's where the culture wars come in. that's the culture fight played out and realized in the dollars that are raised. understand this, this is all very cynical. at the end of the day, they don't give a rat's batooty about these issues. marjorie taylor greene is just a jacked up congresswoman wannabe who is as crazy as hell but can raise $3 million. whereas common sense, focused, disciplined sort of, i want to try to govern the country type of republicanism is trying to eke along a dollar at a time. so that kind of tells you where the dollar fight is and the

trumpists are winning. >> chairman steele, rat's batooty, we'll have to chat offline. >> it's sunday. >> soledad o'brien, michael steele and perry bacon jr. coming up next hour, a look at the latest controversial body cam video. a traffic stop involving an army officer. up next, the right's fight against so-called vaccine passports. what you need to know and why. you don't want to miss this. so when her car got hit, she didn't waste any time. she filed a claim on her usaa app and said, “that was easy.” usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. usaa. - oh. - what's going on? - oh, darn! - let me help. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. lift and push and push! there... it's up there. hey joshie... wrinkles send the wrong message. help prevent them before they start with downy wrinkleguard.

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it's completely unacceptable for either the government or the private sector to impose upon you the requirement that you show proof of vaccine to just simply be able to participate in normal society. you want the fox to guard the hen house? give me a break. >> this discussion of vaccine passports and all the rest of that just sounds to me like another idea of big government run amok. >> a nightmare orwellian infrastructure of control. an unprecedented, undemocratic power grab by big business, big government, big bureaucracy. no, no, no. >> folks on the right are losing their minds over just the thought of vaccine passports. for all the outrage, you'd think that this was on president biden's agenda. but it's not. >> the government is not now nor

will we be supporting a system that requires americans to carry a credential. >> so far just one state has offered this type of credential. new york state's excelsior pass. joining me is jody gerut and dr. ezekiel emanuel, former obama white house health policy adviser and author of "which country has the world's best health care." thank you both for being here to have this conversation about vaccine passports. i'm going to star with you, dr. emanuel. from what i understand, you are in favor of vaccine passports. what is a vaccine passport, and why do you think it's a good idea? >> first of all, i -- separate whether i think it's a good idea or not. it's here. it's coming, it's inevitable. second, we use vaccination certification all the time for kids to go to school. i have my yellow fever certification to travel to

certain countries. other people have it. and i think we are going to need reassurance, for example, if i go into the hospital. i'd like to know that people are actually vaccinated. i don't get sicker from going to the hospital than not. if i go to the theater, if i go to a sporting event. so you'll have these things. but we have to make sure that they are done ethically. i don't think it's a question of will we have it, won't we have it. we're going to have it, if only for international travel and probably domestic travel. and the question is to do it ethically, not whether to have it. that's the false discussion. >> and one more question, dr. emanuel. what about the pushback from the right as we saw in that montage. this is orwellian and the government is having all your information and tracking you. should anyone have any concern about that? >> well, that's part of doing it ethically. i don't think we should have the government be looking into it

and matching, you know, vaccine passports with immigration or vaccine passports with taxation. that would be wrong. similarly, i think it would be wrong if google did it or facebook did it and then commercialized it and, you know, plugged your information. i think all of those things are part of the safeguards we need. and we have to have. and spending time, wasting time saying you're infringing my freedom. you don't have a freedom to be infectious and spread it around society and endanger my life. that is false freedom. remember, our founding fathers didn't talk about liberty, do whatever you want. they talked about ordered liberty and part of ordered liberty is people actually doing things that protect their fellow citizens. and that is key that the republican party seems to have forgotten. >> you know, laurie, you're sort of on the other side of this. you have a passport, but you don't think that they'll actually work. talk about why. >> there it is on your --

>> on my phone. on my phone, jonathan. and curiously, it says, it expires on may 1st. so i have no idea what is the point of this idiotic thing. there's no place that allegedly i can show it. no foreign country recognizes the new york state qr code as proof that i've been vaccinated. it doesn't make a whole heck of a lot of sense to me. but, you know, i come -- i'm old enough that i come from the era when i had one of these inside my passport. >> i have one of those, too. >> and it has multiple vaccines, not one or two or three or four. it has pages of vaccines that have been administered in my lifetime. and i actually was thrown in a jail cell in one african country because this had fallen out of my passport and i didn't have it to show as i entered the country. these were very rigidly adhered to, but they were also easy to

make fraudulently. as you can see, it's just paper. >> right. >> anybody with a printing press can make one of these things. and all sorts of people could pretend to be doctors and have these stamps to put in to say that you'd had vaccines. and so actually, by the turn of the 21st century, most of the countries that were members of the world health assembly said it's not working. we've got make yellow fever passes all over africa. we've got fake meningitis passes all over africa and fake yellow cards all over the world. they've all been fraudulently administered. let's get rid of this. let's narrow it down. let's focus on yellow fever and create the international health regulations. and so we stepped away from that entire approach because the truth was that, number one, it was overwhelmingly fraudulent and number two, a lot of people

were able to get around it based on your nationality when they crossed into a country. i as a white person got questioned less frequently than my co-travelers who were people of color. they were never administered fairly and justly. you were more likely to be denied entry to a country or thrown into jail if you were from some country that the place you were going to didn't like. and so -- >> right. >> i don't see the purpose of it. i certainly don't have any idea how between now and may 1st i'm going to use this darn thing. >> so laurie then, if they're fraudulent, they don't work, to dr. emanuel's point, how will people know whether it's safe to go into a hospital, go into a restaurant or should we just live with the -- live with covid in the same way we live with the flu every year? get the vaccine and hope for the

best? >> look, what i find very curious about the right wing assault is that there's this mistaken assumption that it's government that wants to do this. but actually, it's employers. it's big business. it's a lot of places that want to put people in the seats. and they want some way of saying that i've safely put people in the seats and i can pack the seats. i can fill the auditorium. i can fill the office and so on. and so i think if there's likely to be inappropriate use or excessive use of some form of vaccine pass, it's really going to be more financially driven than anything to do with government watchdogs. and will it work? well, we'll see. but i think we have to be more adult about all of this. and i know zeke would agree with me because i've heard him say this many times before. the vaccination is not so much about you as it is about the community you live in. and if you're so selfish that

you only identify with vaccination as self-protection and your right to move around freely then you're missing the entire point. the point of vaccination is the total population. it's lowering chance that everyone in america will get this disease. and if you can't all get on board, then we lose the game. >> dr. emanuel, i'm giving you the last word. real fast. >> laurie and i have heated agreement. these things are going to be there. the question is to make them good and to make them not about financial gain for big business. and there, i do think there's a role for government to make sure that we can actually use them and they're fair. >> all right. we're going to have to leave it there. laurie garrett, dr. ezekiel emanuel, thank you for coming to "the sunday show." we still have the man himself, senate minority leader harry reid. stay with us.

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welcome back to "the sunday show." joining me is donna edwards, former congresswoman from maryland, and kurt bardella. there you are. both of you saw the first half hour of our show. what are your thoughts? former congresswoman edwards, you go first. >> wow, you know, i was struck by former chairman michael steele. poor thing. always wishing for that republican party that simply doesn't exist anymore and is not likely to be reincarnated any time soon.

>> and kurt? i mean, that's your former party. >> yes. i was struck by mr. steele's use of the words rat batooty. i don't envy him having to come on for that label. hoping one day he might decide to join me in leaving the republican party and in my case, i became a democrat. >> i would love to get both of you to talk about if you have any thoughts on the whole vaccine passport issue. i'm sort of -- i can see how it might be useful. i can see how it's not useful. i mean, laurie garrett pulled out her yellow card with all those vaccinations. i've got that yellow card, too, but i only have one vaccination on it and it's from almost ten years ago when i went to kenya and got the malaria vaccine. should people get a vaccine passport if one is available, congresswoman edwards? >> you know, this is such a tricky one. look, i'm carrying around my

card that says that i've had my two covid vaccines. i don't know when i'll take it out of my handbag, but i've got it for now. i think that if both employers and people in communities are trying to just figure out a way that they feel safe in their communities and i think right now with so many people still declining to get the vaccine, that it's a real mixed bag when you're packed on an airplane -- in an airliner with people you don't know have had the vaccine or not. and it's not about me. it's about them. >> have you been on a plane? >> not yet. >> okay. >> but i want to because now i've had the vaccine, but it still troubles me. i'm likely to just be in my rv for the near term. >> oh, that's right. you're madam rv. that would be a fun little rolling sunday show. we should try to do that.

kurt, would you get a vaccine passport? what are your views on it? >> absolutely, i would. i think that what's unique about this time is we're dealing with something that has affected in some way, shape or form every single person living in this country and really on this planet. and when the disturbing things throughout this past year is one of the political parties in this country has built their entire rhetoric on doubting science. on doubting fact. on mocking common sense things. the fact that there's even the discussion right now about whether or not people want to take the vaccine is crazy to me. but one of the things that really stands out to me about this argument playing out and what bothers me is republican argument is completely hypocritical as is just about everything they talk about. i don't remember them worrying about individual rights in post-9/11 when they wanted to do things. they targeted middle eastern americans. i don't remember them worrying about rights when they are

clamoring for secure i.d.s and real i.d.s and stronger identification to participate in our democratic process. so why is it that now when we're talking about something that is to the benefit of all of our communities' health, they are playing this false flag game of rights and freedoms and liberties. it's completely inconsistent with when you're talking about this or voting or post-9/11. they're all over the place. >> congresswoman edwards, i'll give you the last word. gee, why are they suddenly, you know, worried about their freedom if they have to get a vaccine passport? >> jonathan, you're always asking me to explain something that really has no explanation. i mean, i do think, though, that because the party has really -- the republican party and its leadership have been going all out in opposing masks, opposing

vaccines, that it's now become a culturated within the republican party and it's unfortunate because all of the rest of us are going to be vaccinated. they're all going to be running around getting covid. >> and i'm still going to be wearing -- i got shot one. i'm still going to be wearing my mask. i'm too scared. donna and kurt will be back in our next hour. but coming up, former senate majority leader harry reid is here. the man who got obamacare through the senate. you might want to hear what he has to say about biden's agenda. cell phone repair. did you know liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need? just get a quote at libertymutual.com. really? i'll check that out. oh yeah. i think i might get a quote.

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would you be willing to pass the "for the people's act" by killing the filibuster? >> i'm not killing the filibuster. >> never, ever? >> i think i've been very clear. it was very clear. i think we can find a pathway forward. i really do. i'm going to be sitting down with both sides and understanding where everybody is coming from. >> but the question remains, can

democrats in a bitterly gridlocked senate get anything done if they don't change the filibuster? joining me now is former democratic senate majority leader harry reid. leader reid, great to see you. thanks for coming to "the sunday show." >> my pleasure. >> so, what do you make of senator manchin and his stance to the filibuster. there's no way, he wrote in my paper, "the washington post," there's no way he wants to change or even modify the filibuster. is that a tenable position? >> i've stated, and i believe that it's not a question if, it's a question when the filibuster goes away. the country cannot operate when it takes 60% of the vote to get everything done. and so i know joe means well. he's looking at a time that doesn't exist anymore when there was bipartisanship. but you heard senator mcconnell this past few days saying that he's going to do nothing.

you know, that's legislation for the democrats. >> so leader reid, since you mentioned the current senate minority leader mitch mcconnell, we have some sound that i've been dying to get your reaction to. have a listen to what he had to say on march 16th. >> so let me say this very clearly for all 99 of my colleagues. nobody serving in this chamber can even begin -- can even begin to imagine what a completely scorched earth senate would look like. everything the republican senate did to president obama would be child's play compared to the disaster that democrats would create for their own priorities if -- if they break the senate. >> so leader reid, given what leader mcconnell said there, i

mean, those are some dire threats, dire warnings. should democrats be afraid of mitch mcconnell? >> remember, he's known as the grim reaper. he's known as the grim reaper because it's almost impossible to get anything done with a republican senate. they turn the senate when they had the majority as a manufacturing site for judges. they did nothing else. no amendments. no legislation. nothing whatsoever. what he said there on camera is nothing more than what he's been doing for the last several years. >> leader reid, actually when folks talk about democrats wanting to do -- complaining about the filibuster, republicans turned the fire on you and say you're the reason why we're in this state we're in because democrats under your leadership did away with the filibuster for executive branch nominations and for lower federal court judges. what do you say in response to folks who blame you for where we

are right now? is that even -- >> thank you for bringing this up. the republicans for the first time in the history of the country, even were filibustered, the secretary of defense. we had the d.c. circuit, the second most important court in the land, we had vacancies there. they wouldn't allow us to fill them. they couldn't do anything directly so they made the national labor board so we couldn't get a quorum. of course we changed the rules. we did it because the country needed it. and as a result of our changing the rules, we had the most productive congress in the history of the country. even more so than the first roosevelt legislation. first time he became president, he had a congress. we were able to pass obamacare. we did it on christmas eve. first time the senate met in 150 years. we passed bills that had been waiting for years. we were able to get things done

that needed to be done. and i think that any -- this crying, oh, it's terrible what's going on in the senate, when the fact of the matter is that we did changes, and we did it because it was good for the country. and the country benefited from things we were able to get done. we were able to get his cabinet officers approved, subcabinet officers approved. fix the national labor relation board. we filled the d.c. circuit. so i, as i look back, we did it because it was the right thing for the country. and it made obama's first congress one of the best in the history of the country. >> have you been in touch with president biden or the biden white house to advise them or have they reached out to you to get your advice on how to navigate this filibuster conversation? >> i talked to the biden folks quite often.

steve, ron klain, i do it because i don't want to be a monday morning quarterback, but they have questions, and i answer them, and i give them some advice. i think that biden is somebody who understands the senate. he has told me many times, don't forget, i'm a senate guy. he's a senate guy. in the senate for all those years. he understands the senate. and i think that his first 100 days as president of the united states has proven he knows what's going on. >> and with that, we're going to leave it there. senate majority leader harry reid, thank you for getting up a little early there in nevada to be with us on "the sunday show." >> thank you very much for allowing me to be on the show. coming up, richard engel joins us live to talk about his special report on the january 6th insurrection. keep it where it is.

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the january 6th insurrection in "on assignment with richard engel: our house." a joint investigation between nbc news and bellingcat and its volunteers. joining me is foreign correspondent richard engel. thanks for coming to "the sunday show." >> it's a real pleasure. i don't think i've done this yet with you. so this is my first time. good to talk to you. >> likewise. tell us about the assignment. >> so i think by now, everyone in the united states has seen some of the videos and has some idea of what happened during the capitol assault. but i think a lot of people are still confused by it because there's such an enormous volume of material. because there is still a movement to deny the importance of what happened and say it was just a bunch of people who got away, lost control of their emotions and went there. but what we did in collaboration with bellingcat is we took all

of this video, thousands of hours of video, and police audio and intercepted audio, and we laid it out chronologically and matched like to like. we matched the same event when there were different camera angles and matched the audio angles and matched the audio that went to that particular event. and by doing this you start to see patterns. you're effectively building a mosaic of what happened that day. and when we stood back and looked at that mosaic, we were able to identify key individuals, certain turning point moments and try to present a clearer picture to what was undoubtedly a very, very chaotic day. but if you step back from it and you look at it with a little bit of perspective, you do get a fairly clear sense that this was a very, very serious incident indeed. and you can't replace being there and, of course, the officers, the police officers who were defending the building had a very up-front perspective. and one of those officers was officer dunn.

>> it was a time, one instance, it was off of the rotunda area. and i was still holding the hallway and these people were standing there yelling, so i started talking to them. we started talking about why they're there and joe biden didn't win the election and it's stolen. and i started talking about me voting. i voted for joe biden. does my vote not count? and one person said, "you hear that? this "n" word voted for joe biden." and they started booing. and the people that were with them joined in with them and said, yeah, this n-word, f-you, this "n" word voted for joe bieds en. f you, f you, boo. >> race was a major factor in this. we did an analysis of the hand symbols insignias and flags that

were displayed during the insurrection, during the riot, and it showed that many of these, these -- the people who were there were at least sympathizers of far-right militia group, sometimes neo-nazis. this was not your average group of americans who decided to go out and express their grievances. >> richard engel, i have so many questions. i'm going to watch the show tonight to get those answers. be sure to tune in for "on assignment with richard engel: our house" 10:00 p.m. eastern. coming up, the derek chauvin all-star legal panel. i'll ask about the panel stop involving an army officer. rmy o. and in an emergency, they need a network that puts them first. that connects them to technology, to each other, and to other agencies. that's why at&t built firstnet with and for first responders

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you can see his eyes. he's conscious. and then you see that he isn't. that's the moment the life goes out of his body. >> welcome back to "the sunday show". i'm jonathan capehart. they are going to wrap up the trial of police officer derek chauvin after powerful testimony from an array of experts who address the central question, what caused george floyd's death last may. >> so if we look at the other

contributing conditions, those other contributing conditions are not conditions that you consider direct causes. is that true? >> they are not direct causes of mr. floyd's death. that's true. they're contributing causes. >> and in terms of manner of death, you found then and do you stand by today that the manner of death of mr. floyd was, as you would call it, homicide? >> yes, i would still classify it as a homicide today. >> do you have an opinion to a reasonable degree of medical certainty if mr. floyd would have died that not had he not been subject to the subdual and restraint of the police? >> there is no evidence to suggest he would have died that night, except for the interactions with law enforcement. >> so how will the defense respond? we'll soon find out. prosecutors are expected to rest their case any day now. joining me now to discuss, paul butler, former federal prosecutor and author of "choke

hold." jill wine-banks, #sisters in law podcast and author of the watergate girl. and john burris, criminal defense and civil rights attorney and author of black versus blue. thank you all very much for coming to the show today. i want to go to each of you. we're going to start with the prosecution. give me your, your view of how the prosecution did last week in presenting its case. paul, you go first. >> john, first, just to shout out the iconic jill wine-banks and john burris, they have inspired and broken down barriers for so many of us. and it's an honor to be on with them. the progs cushion had another excellent week in a way, that's to be expected because we haven't heard from the other side. the defense will present its case this week. but the first week of the prosecution, compelling eyewitnesses, all of whom suffered from survivor's guilt because they couldn't save

george floyd's life. this week the experts -- these are professional witnesses who know how to do things like look at the jurors when they talk. and what they said is the police experts, that officer chauvin used excessive force. and the medical experts went to the cause of death. that's the defense. and they said beyond a medical certainty that george floyd was killed by derek chauvin. >> jill wine-banks, do you agree that the prosecution did a good job of presenting its case? >> first of all, thank you, paul. that's embarrassing and wonderful. but -- and i'm honored to be on with both of you. and i would say not just good, it was great. i cannot think of anything they did or didn't do that should have been done differently.

the witnesses -- actually, dr. tobin who you showed a video of, if he had been my science teacher at any point in my life, i'd probably be a doctor instead of a lawyer. he was amazing both as a witness in explaining and as he unbuttoned his collar and said, feel for your hypothalamus. he was amazing. there's no one who can combat that. so if the defense now puts on witnesses to counterdict what was said, if they put on an expert who said, no it was definitely his heart, i think these witnesses have left an indelible memory in the minds of the jury and they cannot be overridden. so i think it was an excellent couple of weeks for the prosecution. >> and so, then, mr. burris, as the criminal defense attorney here, what do you make of the prosecution's case? >> well, the prosecution put on a very, very strong case, there's no doubt about it. from the defense point of view,

that's just the beginning. it's a start. now it's going to be up to the defense to determine how they can poke holes in the case. and i think first you have to stick with the medical testimony they've always been concerned about and have their own expert become a battle of the experts. you're only looking for reasonable doubt. you don't have to convince all 12. and the medical examiner for the city, in fact, county gave them some evidence to suggest he had a real problem with the cause of death at the very beginning. so there is basically a start forward. on balance the prosecution did a great, great job having put on this type of case in the past, i know how important it is to have your expert witnesses to be in sync. the biggest of all this was having all these police officers testify. that will have the greatest impact on these individual jurors because they have never heard nor have i seen so many police officers testify against another police officer. so the defense -- the prosecution put on a great, great test. it's not over till it's over. >> so now let's talk about the

defense and i'm going to stick with you. mr. burruss, did the prosecution do a good job in pre-butting what the defense is going to argue when it makes its case starting next week? >> well, obviously the medical testimony, it was predicted it was going to be about cause of death and causation. so i think that the prosecution did a lot there. but having been there and listened, we know there will be other experts who have credentials that will come forward and give a different statement, and that statement will sound as reasonable as the statements that the prosecution has presented. in my way of thinking, sure, they did a good job trying to preempt it. the defense has a good chance to put forth their case. i'm not so certain they can prevail here. i think the question ultimately is going to be going ultimately to the question of disproving that chauvin had the intent. that statement is buttressed by the fact he said afterwards he

was a very strong guy and trying to keep him under control. jurors hear that statement. they think of nothing else, whether or not he intended to hurt this man or kill this man, but he had concern about him being under control. if i'm the defense i'm looking at it from that point of view. >> paul, i want to have you listen to defense attorney nelson and one of his hypotheticals that he put out there. have a listen. >> let's assume you found mr. floyd dead in his residence, no police involvement, no drugs, right. the only thing you found would be these facts about his heart. what would you conclude to be the cause of death? >> in that very narrow set of circumstances, i would probably conclude that the cause of death was his heart disease. >> i could be laying by the pool in florida, right? >> right. >> on my stomach in the prone position, not inherently dangerous.

>> right. >> and there could be a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. what is he doing? >> he's being a bad lawyer to my law students. kids, don't try this at all. jonathan, the autopsy says the cause of floyd's death was failure of his heart and lungs. it doesn't use the word asphyxia, which is the prosecution's theory. so all the other medical experts other than the medical examiner say asphyxia. the defense is trying to exploit the jury that these well qualified experts can't agree on what killed mr. floyd, that's reasonable death. the thing is the medical examiner's testimony doesn't give the defense a lot to work with. he reinforced what all the other medical experts have said that george floyd would not have died on memorial day 2020 but for his fatal encounter with derek chauvin. >> panel, i'm going to switch

gears here for something that is truly bothersome. last week i said during my by line, there is nothing more nightmarish for an african-american, particularly an african-american man than a traffic stop. so as the nation is riveted by the trial we're talking about, new video has emerged of an army officer being held at gunpoint by two police officers in windsor, virginia, during a traffic stop in december. >> get out of the car. >> what's going on? >> get out of the car now. >> what's going on? >> what's going on is you're fixing to ride the lightning, son. >> get out the car. >> you received an order. obey it. >> i'm honestly afraid to get out. >> you should be. get out. >> can i tell you how enraging that is?

second lieutenant caron nazario said he was pulled over for not having a license plate. he admits not pulling over and driving a short distance until he could find a well lit spot. thank god he did. video of the incident provided by nazario's attorney shows police with their guns drawn, administering pepper spray, handcuffing nazario. he has filed a lawsuit against the officers. nbc reached out to the police department in windsor, virginia, but has not received a response. jill wine-banks, from what i understand, you had -- you changed your pin that you were wearing -- you were going to wear on the show this morning. you changed it to black lives matter. i want everyone to react to what we just saw, but, jill, you go first. >> it was horrifying. it is a constant reminder of the danger of driving while black, of walking while black, of

jogging while black. we have to do something to stop this. no one who looks like me would have been subjected to that. he drove for about one mile to get to a lighted area, which is a completely justifiable thing. he put his own camera on his dashboard and recorded what was happening, as did obviously the body cams, and it looks to me like there must have been a cam in the gas station from the angle. >> um-hmm. >> there's just nothing to be said about the appropriateness of what happened. the reference to "the lightning" has to do with the electric chair. and that's a pretty serious threat. and then they threatened him with ruining his army career. this was a man in uniform who had done nothing, and the license plate is visible in the video that you see. so they had no reason to even pull him over. and then to get out and pull a gun?

it's unspeakable. it is just horrible. and at a time when we're going through the george floyd murder trial of derek chauvin, nothing could be more compelling to say we have to do something about policing in america. >> mr. burris, the other thing that is so terrifying to me -- just give me a moment here, because i avoided watching any of that video for days now because that's my biggest fear. and what happened to that army officer, they tell him to get out of the car, but they also tell him to put his hands out the window, but they also -- they give him conflicting information and that's why i said, thank god he went to a lighted spot because imagine if they were on a darkened part of the road, what would have

happened to him if he had complied. and i'm sick and tired of hearing people, particularly white people, well, if only they complied. if you do what they say you'll be fine. and we see right there, no, not even an army uniform can protect you from law enforcement. mr. burris. >> no question about it. this is not an atypical situation, i can guarantee you. this happened here, but it happens all throughout the united states. in many cases like this, i can tell you that a minor case like this could have a very tragic incident. this young man could have been shot and killed, the wrong move at the point in time. pulling their guns out was totally, totally inappropriate because once you pull your guns out, you're leaving yourself very few options and that option, if the person says something you don't like or does some move you don't like, the first thing you do is shoot and kill them. this was to me a very outrageous situation and it was appropriate that the person moved and got to a lighted place. at the same time, it was a

confusing situation. this requires this department to go back and talk to this officer -- these officers and make sure these officers do not give conflicting instructions. that's how you get people killed. they don't know how to handle it, what next to do. so for me it was very dangerous situation potentially, and more importantly, it's the kind of thing that happens routinely in a lot of suburban areas. >> paul, i'm going to give you the last word quickly. it wasn't lost on me we also saw in the derek chauvin trial guns were pulled on george floyd the moment they got to his car window. paul, last word to you. >> these two officers who engaged in this racial profiling and excessive force, every day that they remain in the streets is a dangerous day for people of color in virginia. there's got to be an independent investigation. this police department has not been transparent or accountable. it cannot be trusted to police itself. >> absolutely. >> and with that we're going

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over the past year, 3800 such incidents have been reported. two of three by women. racism is real in america, and it has always been. xenophobia is real in america, and always has been. sexism, too. >> a few weeks ago in my by-line, i addressed the surge in hate crimes against the asian american community and the deadly shooting in atlanta targeting mostly women of asian descent by a white man. afterwards i was flooded with feedback asking, what about hate crimes towards asian americans perpetrated by black people? and it's prompted a conversation i think we need to have.

some of the most widely circulated footage of the anti-asian attacks have been black perpetrators. joining me is president of emerge and lynn nguyen of run aapi. thank you both for being here and you're here because you both penned an op-ed in usa today head lined, how black and asian american women are working together to overcome racism. and i wanted you for this segment to talk about this because i do think we need to talk about this. and if anything, so that the folks who are all up in my feed saying, hey, but what about black people to deflect from what happened in atlanta, to hear that what they're pushing isn't being bought by a lot of people. lynn, you start. >> right, right. i appreciate this, jonathan. i mean, i think what's so fascinating for a lot of us --

ashanti after atlanta happened were some of the first to reach out to me and ask, how are we showing up for our asian sisters? i think what's most troubling in this moment is that like this conversation on inter sectionality, what this means for asian, asian americans, it's often kind of kept in this political activist educated bubble, right. some of the hardest conversations i've had in the last few weeks, it's been with my own parents, right. with our family members, relatives, and actually naming this anti-blackness that has existed for a very long time, right. it's those conversations, the grassroots, like going into the community and having those conversations are going to be some of the hardest work that we do. >> and, ashanti, i'm going to read from the op-ed. and this is the key line that made me say, i need to have these two women on the show to talk about this. and you write, in the wake of recent -- of a recent spike of anti-asian violence and with little evidence, many have begun

to point to a divide between black and asian americans as the real issue facing our communities instead of naming the true culprit, white supremacy. talk more about that. >> i sure will. thank you for having us. the fact is i'm one of those americans who is outraged at the violence that is happening against the asian community, and i'm one of those black americans who is really upset that yet again this dangerous narrative was reemerging that there is a divide between the black and asian communities because i know it's not true. when we look at black lives matter and stop asian hate, we have been showing up for each other. when i look at my friendships, lynn and i met two years ago. she immediately became family. and we've been working together to increase the representation of more black and asian women in politics. and i look at the work that we do at emerge. i'm the first black woman to lead this organization. i took over right when the pandemic hit. and the first public statement i had us put out was standing in

solidarity with the asian community. we have had conversations in our network about how to support asian women. it is important for us to live our values. the reality here is what is dividing our communities is white supremacy. this is another tactic to not own up to the fact that white supremacy is the biggest threat, not only to our communities, but to our country. and lynn and i were not going to let people once again use these attacks as a way to "other" us and to make us seem like we are not americans and we don't belong in this country. our communities are strong. black and asian women have been standing together in solidarity for generations. and lynn and i are part of that me generation that is going to continue to stand together. >> and you also write in the op-ed, lynn, black and asian women, to your point, ashanti, black and asian women know what it means to be "othered."

we each had harmful stereotypes cast upon us that continued to affect our lives today. >> right, right. and again, it's like these false stereotypes are so violent. they hurt us. they hurt black women, they hurt asian women. right. and whether it's the fetishization of asian women or the trope of the angry black woman. we're almost like in this constant motion of having to tell our own stories, of having to validate our own experiences. you know, even our own histories are falsified. they're often falsified by white people all the time. so it's the shared emotional exhaustion. you know. i will say what's also unique with asian and asian women at this time, it's for the first time people are looking into our history. they're asking about our culture, you know. again, i think of how complex the entire api umbrella looks like. >> right. >> for a lot of us, we often

question each other and ask what does it even mean to be asian in a country like america, right? what does it mean to be asian in georgia, in texas, in southern states? our identity is just so nuanced that, again, it makes this issue of being able to talk on anti-asian violence and naming it for what it is that much more complicated. >> you know, one of the things that also, you know, came up in my reading about all of this is how the right and conservatives are pitting us against each other when it comes to higher education and trying to use asian americans to blow up or do away with affirmative action programs or race conscious programs, particularly in the ivy league colleges and universities as a way of achieving their own ends. i would love both of you to give me your view real quickly about

being used in that way. ashanti. >> again, it's another tactic of white supremacy. you're the good asian. you're the good black. you are who we need in this country. you are who we need in society. it's also ways that they just try to pit us against our own people in our community. oh, you're the right black person. you're the right asian person. and we need not to give in to those types of stereotypes. it is another tool and tactic of white supremacy. there is no one right way to be black. there is no one right way to be asian. we are who we are. our communities are diverse. we are americans and we just really need to make sure that we are doing everything that we can to keep our eye on the real issue at hand which is, again, white supremacy and we need not be burdened by all of these distractions.

>> real fast, lynn, last word to you. >> yeah, i will say, i mean, this is white supremacy and this is the model minority myth in full action, right. this is a system that's meant to pit us against one another, that's meant to oppress us and yet at the same time there's a lot of folks who just still aren't ready to name this, right. we think of how complicated the asian identity is in america and there are some who just simply want to stay silent. they want to stay invisible, right. my parents still don't know why we choose to speak up and challenge our system because this is how it should be, right? it's just years of needing to dismantle the assimilation, of just needing to survive, you know. again, like i think of what this moment means not just for asians in the rise of anti-asian violence, but what this past year has meant with us trying to survive through this pandemic, right. so it's a moment where it's a lot for a lot of us. >> um-hmm. well, if the future is in the hands of the young and the future is female, we are in great hands with the two of you.

thank you, ashanti and lynn nguyen. thank you for coming to the sunday show. coming up, we go on the run with the former detective, d.a. and lawyer who is gunning for a new jersey congressional seat. keep it right here. sional seat. keep it right here ice t, stone cold calling on everyone to turn to cold washing with tide.

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when i was 19 i dealt with racial profiling. it changed my life. i experienced what so many members of the black community go through every day with policing. that only motivated me to pursue a lifelong career in law enforcement. now after proudly serving as a law enforcement officer, prosecutor, and attorney, i'm ready to take my passion and experiences to the halls of congress. >> political newcomer tim alexander likes to say he's been in every seat in the courtroom, except for the judge's bench. he is one of the democrats challenging incumbent congressman jeff van drew in new jersey's second congressional district. a former democrat himself who

flipped to the gop who said he couldn't vote for the impeachment of then donald trump. you may remember van drew from this oval office photo op. >> i believe this is just a better fit for me. this is who i am. it's who i always was, but there was more tolerance of moderate democrats, of blue dog democrats, of conservative democrats. and i think that's going away. you have my undying support. >> thank you. thank you very much. >> and always. >> and, by the way, same way. >> okay. joining me now is democratic candidate for new jersey's second congressional district tim alexander. mr. alexander, thank you very much for coming to the sunday show. >> thank you, jonathan. thank you for having me. >> okay. so, you're running against congressman van drew who won reelection in 2020, 51.9 to 46.2% against kennedy who was democratic challenger,

ms. kennedy there. what makes you think -- why do you think you're the one who can oust van drew, congressman van drew? >> that's a great question. and the reason i know that i can beat van drew is because there is not a single issue that the people in this district face every single day that i haven't experienced in my personal life. whether it be how are you going to make ends meet, health care, or dealing with systemic racism, police brutality, security. i have experienced this in every single arena that i don't have to empathize or say, i haven't experienced it. i know exactly what's going on. that's going to resonate with everyone whether they're republican or democrat in this district. >> one of the things he used, van drew used to beat up on ms. kennedy was the issue of de-funding the police. have a listen to what he had to say at a 2020 debate.

>> there is certainly the idea among many democrats that we should defund the police. i stand tall with my police. i believe in what they do, i believe in what they stand for. >> so, are you one of those democrats who believes in, quote-unquote, defund the police? what does that mean to you? >> no, i don't stand with defunding the police. i am a -- let me put it this way. part of my platform is blowing up the way police officers are trained. i want a complete revision to the training program. that's going to require funding. he'll never be able to put that tag on me defunding the police when i'm seeking to increase funding because i want to scrap the entire way that police officers are trained, redraft, redevelop, put some money to it and push it back out. >> so let's say you do get elected to congress. what do you want to work on on

capitol hill that you think can help the constituents of the second district? >> as it stands with van drew, my first platform is bringing jobs to this district. he voted against the infrastructure program. i want to bring that money back to our district for infrastructure which will lead to more jobs, bring job training in, bring jobs to people who don't necessarily have advanced degrees, but still offer them good wages, benefits, and some money to supplement social security when they retire. so those are the type of programs i want to work on. and then also i want to work on police training reform. and we can talk about george floyd and all the other instances across the country, but it's enough. we have to make change. >> actually, to your point, mr. alexandre, mr. police training, we've been talking about what happened to that member of the armed forces who back in december, the video is coming out now. we played it at the top of the hour, of a traffic stop that was completely frightening. guns pulled on him.

pepper sprayed. your reaction to, to what happened to officer nazario. >> let me qualify by saying the vast majority of police officers are good, noble and they do a great job. these two officers failed. they failed the lieutenant. they failed their communities. why? it was a traffic stop. why did they make it a high-risk stop? because he didn't pullover right away? what if -- imagine for a moment -- that instead of the young african-american second lieutenant, it was an 80 something-year-old woman, white woman, would they have reacted that same way? of course not. it's a failing in the minds of those officers that it has to ends. when i looked at the george floyd debacle that led to his murder, he was charged or accused of passing a counterfeit bill. these officers came at him with guns drawn. in 1985 when i was shot at by the police, beat up, falsely

arrested, officers came at me with guns drawn. i was backing away when they decided to shoot. but for the grace of god i'm still here. i'm able to tell my story. that second lieutenant is still here, he's able to tell his story. unfortunately, mr. floyd is no longer with us, but his story is nonetheless being told. >> mr. alexander, when is your primary? >> in june of 2022. >> all right. we will be keeping tabs on you. tim alexander, thank you very much for coming to the sunday show. good luck. >> thank you for having me. >> up next, we'll check in on the other sunday shows. and coming up later on weekends with alex wit, lindsey reiser talks to reverend al sharpton about what's next in the chauvin trial as we see police brutality continue every day. we'll be right back. r subaru fo. (dad) it's good to be back. (mom) it sure is. (mom vo) over the years, we trusted it to carry and protect the things that were most important to us. (mom) good boy. (mom vo) we always knew we had a lot of life ahead of us.

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as republicans we need to get back and ask the question, is this the appropriate role of government. are we restraining ourselves?

just because you want to keep things as they have been, perhaps, you don't need to use the instrument of the law. you don't need to use the state to accomplish that purpose in every instance. there is the church. there is society. there is your community. >> this morning on nbc's "meet the press," arkansas governor asa hutchinson detailed why he vetoed his party bill for transgendered youth in his state. but before you start to think there's suddenly a voice of morality in the republican party, he followed up with this. >> each bill has to stand on its own. i signed two that i thought made sense. one was girls in sports, trying to protect women's sports. the other one was supporting medical conscience, that doctors can claim a conscience reason if they want to deny a particular procedure, but they have to do emergency care.

>> medical conscience. joining me now is former democratic congresswoman from maryland donna edwards. curt bardella, an nbc news think contributor and washington post opinion writer. thank you very much for being here. why on earth are republicans messing with the trans community, particularly with trans kids. jennifer, if you can explain. >> the cruelty is the point. why do they take children out of the arms of the mother at the border. this is what they do now. and it is an effort to impose a certain, i think, very arcane sense of morality on the public. it used to be that republicans said the state, the liberals are trying to use government to impose the morality on us. leave us alone. freedom of church, freedom of association. it's completely flipped. they have a certain sense of the world. they've lost the culture wars with the american people. they're not on the same side. and as a result, they want to

enlist government to bully the rest of us around and they look to the people who are the most vulnerable. whether it's the trans community, undocumented immigrants, this is what they do. and i think we should call it out for what it is, which is hateful, which is cruel, and an effort to distract from the complete lack of policy on the things the government should be doing. on the economy. on infrastructure. on health care. all the things that government properly has a role in, they have no answers for and hence they turn to this whole grab bag of issues where there's dr. seuss, or whether it's making the lives of trans kids miserable. it's all part of the same game. >> right. curt, since jennifer brought up the border, i'm going to play what texas governor greg abbott had to say about the border. >> what the president could do is to immediately put back in place the remain in mexico

protocols that were established in the prior administration. he could continue to build the wall along the border in south texas. he could send a stronger message, these people should not be coming here. remember this, that is the reason why there are so many people coming here. if you go back to the democrat presidential debates, every single one of the democratic candidates said if they are elected, they will have open borders and they will be giving things for free to anybody coming across the border. >> curt, that's a lie. that is a lie. >> oh, brother. i tell you, jonathan, the level of delusion that has infected and metastasized throughout the entire republican party is reaching epic proportions here. this is just a continuation of what we have seen republicans do really for the last two decades, use the issue of immigration, use this idea that there are people coming here who are not white, who are looking to take

things from white people. that's what this is about. that's what the rhetoric is about. that's what this fight is all about. jennifer is right. all of this is just misdirection to avoid talking about the things the american people care about. they're talking about the things that are popular with the american people that the biden administration is pursuing. the republicans know they are on the opposite side of the american people when it comes to covid relief, when it comes to infrastructure, when it comes to gun reform, when it comes to climate change so they have to come up with these manufactured culture war lunatic rhetorical, theatrical performances to avoid talking about the things that put them on the opposite side of the american people. they are on a one-way street to losing election after election after election by going down this path, a path that we already know is a losing strategy. a path that we already know cost them the white house, cost them the house, cost them senate. they are doubling down on failure because they don't have

anything to talk about. >> and yet, donna edwards, i mean, 2022 is coming up. nancy pelosi, speaker pelosi's majority in the house is shrinking. the senate is at 50/50. are republicans on the wrong side? marjorie taylor greene, she's got nothing else to do because she's not on any committees. she raised $3.2 million. is curt -- i mean, is curt being wishful? or is curt right? >> wow, that's a tough question. here's what i think is going on. i think jennifer is right. cruelty is the point. and in the absence of a governing agenda or theory of change, republicans are doubling down on the things that can unite their, you know, sort of solid 35% behind this sort of trump theology of meanness.

and i think that with 2022 coming up, what democrats have to do is just stay focused on their agenda. continue to create, you know, and to have a message both of change, but also of competence, of getting the job done. and if republicans want to look like the obstructionists and they want to look like the party that is trying to find the narrowest ways to continue to divide people, i don't think it's going to serve them right come the midterm elections. and so i say to democrats, get infrastructure done. you know, get a budget done. make sure that you can have real action on climate change and reform issues, and that is the way to continue to win the hearts and minds of the american people. >> well, jim jordan, congressman jordan doesn't seem to think so. let's have a listen to what he had to say on one of the shows. >> what do we need a commission for? we already know where the democrats are at.

they want to try to pack the court. they want to pack the court because there's more conservatives on the court than they'd like. more conservatives trump was able to put on the court. i guess they're going to put together a commission, but we know where democrats want to go, all about raw political power. they want to pass legislation that will pass bills on house bill 1. radically change police law. pass a law that will change gun law. we hope senator mansion and sinema keep their word. all this stuff is actually going to become law. >> he talks real fast. jennifer? we got 90 seconds so i want you each to respond to congressman jordan. jennifer, you go first. >> all right. listen, none of those things are true, number one. number two, i'd like to hear what they have to say about the issues that are challenging the american people. listen, we're going to have 10% growth in the second quarter and they want to talk about trans

kids and made-up lines about open borders which never existed? that's nuts. democrats should deliver. if it takes 50 votes plus the vice-president, do it. deliver. this is the rescue plan all over again. deliver. that's what people want. >> curt? >> i'd like to hear why jim jordan still thinks matt gaetz should be on the ranking committee that he's a member of. >> there you go, that's a question. maybe he'll come on the sunday show and i can ask him that question. former congresswoman donna edwards, please explain him. >> well, in boehner's words, the former speaker, jim jordan is really never done anything. he just makes a lot of noise, continues to make a lot of noise, and doesn't want to accomplish a single thing, not for the people in his district, not for people in ohio, and certainly not for the country. so let him keep talking. he'll never get anything done. >> in fact, he said, i never saw a guy who spent more time tearing things apart.

and with that we're going to leave it there. donna edwards with that fly green share in the background. curt and jennifer, thank you for coming to the sunday show. up next, what does a pony have to do with politics? the answer is coming up in the by line. by line. you can't plan for your period's... what the gush moments. but the right pad can. only always ultra thins have rapiddry technology and, they absorb 40% faster. the gush happens fast. that's why always absorbs faster.

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president ronald reagan had a favorite joke he loved to tell about a perennially optimistic boy. in an attempt to dampen that sunny outlook, a psychiatrist brought the kid to a room piled high with manure. delighted, the little boy started frantically digging. eww, right? so the shrink asking, what do you think you're doing? the boy, bridge with optimism, replied, "with all this manure, there must be a pony in here somewhere." which leads me to west virginia senator joe manchin, a one-man roadblock to president biden's policy agenda on capitol hill, because he insists that a pony

named bipartisanship is stalking the halls of congress just waiting to be found. manchin lowered the boom on abolishing or reforming the filibuster. in a op-ed last week he wrote, there is no circumstance in which i will vote to eliminate or weaken the filibuster. "i simply do not believe budget reconciliation should replace regular order in the senate," manchin continued. "working legislation through regular order in the senate prevents drastic swings in federal policy making." regular order? donna edwards served in congress from 2008 to 2017. here is what she told me about regular order on washingtonpostlive's first look on friday. >> you know what, in the ten years i served, we never had regular order. everybody called for it but we never had it. >> manchin says he wants to,

quote, usher a new era of bipartisanship where we find common ground on the major policy debates facing our nation. for real? bipartisanship, with the party of donald trump? common ground with many of the same people who voted against the certification of the electoral college vote after insurrectionists invaded the capitol to try to overturn the presidential election? manchin declares, quote, it is time we do our jobs. olivier knox in "the washington post's" daily 202 pointed out last week, quote, manchin has long centered his political identity on his opposition to certain ideas. it's time for the gentleman from west virginia to show us what he's for and with whom he's working among republicans to create this legislative nirvana he talks so much about. after mass shootings in georgia, colorado, and texas, perhaps manchin could start by reviving the manchin/toomey bill that would have instituted background checks for gun buyers.

the bill was proposed after the 2012 making them worse. the minimum wage must be raised. voting rights absolutely must be protected. our infrastructure must be improved and expanded. and in a perfect world, congress could get all of these things done. but we don't live in a perfect world. that's why i'm willing to give manchin some time to find bipartisanship, but not forever. if, despite his efforts, republicans remain recalcitrant or put forward proposals they know will be rejected by the president, then manchin must leave them be, especially if he wants democrats to remain in the majority. surely manchin wouldn't want to be blamed for his party losing

it because he spent more time looking for a pony that doesn't exist than dealing with the reality of the pile of work right in front of him. i'm jonathan capehart and this has been "the sunday show." hi, i'm pat and i'm 75 years old. we live in the mountains so i like to walk. i'm really busy in my life; i'm always doing something. i'm not a person that's going to sit too long. in the morning, i wake up and the first thing i do is go to my art studio. a couple came up and handed me a brochure on prevagen. i've been taking prevagen for about four years. i feel a little bit brighter and my mind just feels sharper. i would recommend it to anyone. it absolutely works. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. the lexus es, now available with all-wheel drive.

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west. i'm lindsey reiser in for alex witt. we begin with congress heading back to infrastructure. president biden will meet with a group of democrats and republicans tomorrow to discuss his $2 trillion plan. but even as the package faces an uphill battle, the administration is still hoping to deliver a bipartisan win. energy secretary jennifer granholm this morning leaving the door open for compromise. >> the president is willing to negotiate what this looks like. he knows that his current plan is going to be changed. that's the nature of compromise. so whether it is in one big package or several packages, he wants to talk to republicans. and new overnight, donald trump lashing out during a gop retreat in florida. in a lengthy rant at his mar-a-lago resort, the former president repeating false claims that the election was stolen and

lambasting several people he thinks wronged him including dr. fauci, mike pence, and mitch mcconnell, even calling the senate minority leader a "dumb son of a b" and "stone cold loser." secretary of state antony blinken calling out china's handling of the coronavirus pandemic, arguing the country's, quote, failure to cooperate in the early stages led to the situation getting, quote, out of hand. >> to provide real transparency, one result of that failure is that the virus got out of hand faster and with i think much more egregious results than it might otherwise. >> let's go ahead and get started with amanda golden on capitol hill. amanda, what are we hea