tv The Beat With Ari Melber MSNBC April 13, 2021 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT
thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times. we're so grateful. "the beat" starts right now. >> hi, nicole. thank you so much. we're tracking the breaking news out of minnesota. the police officer who shot and killed an unarmed black man resigning today along with her boss, the local police chief. this is the first measure of accountability for the shocking and quick killing caught on
tape. a warning. this excerpt may be disturbing. >> i'll tase ya! i'll tase you. taser, taser, taser! >> tensions now high in minnesota over that widely deemed avoidable killing of daunte wright. this is what we're seeing right now at 5:01 p.m. local time. that area is bracing for another night of gatherings, of protests. there is a curfew in place. there are 2,000 national guard troops already on the ground. there is intense interest around the nation when you track protests, gatherings and other cities. today the mayor also held a 40
minute press conference announcing taking full authority over the police department, firing the city manager and setting aside time during this presentation, during this tough time during the community to hear emotional pleas from the community. >> you wrap your arms around your kids every day. every day. i'm gonna need you to wrap your mind around it. i'm going to need you to get informed. i'm going to need you to put your boots on the ground and act like you care about black, brown bodies. >> i want to speak with you directly about what we're seeing, what we're reporting, what we have here tonight. if it feels like another march through a familiar and tragic american ritual, that's because it is. it's another video of a police approach that reflects clear escalation towards an unarmed
black american. resulting in a death. a killing. and then it's another quest by what are now too many familiar advocates calling for a fair investigation, calling for justice. we heard from ben crump today. he has been busy representing of course george floyd's family in minnesota. now he's taking on daunte wright's case. he was noting what we know. this new case begins just miles away from another that has not even been resolved yet. >> ten miles from where the chauvin trial reguarding george floyd was taking place, that a police officer would shoot and kill another unarmed black man. it is something that if you told
me and i didn't see little daunte's face and his mother, grandmother crying, i wouldn't believe it. >> we begin our coverage tonight with a member of the minnesota house of representatives, vice chair of the public safety committee and a former public defender. the former chief of police in georgia. and a black lives matter and civil rights activist, co-founder of campaign zero. good evening to all of you. i can start with anyone. as i mention, it's all too familiar. it's familiar to communities that have been living with this for decades and generations. it is perhaps slightly more familiar to a wider set of americans after last year, a certain political class as these issues have gotten a bit more national attention. but your thoughts as we go through this again tonight. >> here's the thing, is that we
look at the numbers and the police killed more people in 2020 than almost every year we have except for 2018. this is relentless. in 2020 there were over 100 people killed at traffic stops by the police. there is a new study that showed that black people are more afraid of being killed by the police than being victims of community violence, crimes in their own communities. what happened in brooklyn center also reminded that police kill more people in the suburbs than almost all other communities combined. it is like a hidden place where the trauma is so real. ferguson is a suburb. this is happening all over the country and the police even in 2021 have killed already over 200 people. this is just the first story to capture the national attention. >> representative frazier, you're nodding. >> yeah. i think what -- deray, good to see you again. it's been a long time. it's true. i was on the civil justice reform committee.
what we often hear from those standing in the way of police reform is this is a big city issue. it is not an issue that impacts us and for our instance greater minnesota or in rural places. but the fact of the matter is that just isn't true. they're killing unarmed black people and unarmed people everywhere, everywhere in any state. that's something we have to come to a realization for. and we have to have some reform to fix that. >> yeah. and, so, chief what do you say to the police department and some of their allies here who rushed out to video in part because they thought it helped them. we talk about incriminaing evidence. we talk about incull toir evidence in the law. however tragic, it shows a mistake rather than malice. what do you say to that in the wider context of something we have reported on exhaustively, which is that while ultimately the justice system may rule on the alleged mistake, the routine
and constant escalation of their interactions with unarmed black americans looks like a public health epidemic. >> well, it does. but let me start by saying this. we have been going through this for a very, very long time now. and, you know, post the 21st century task force report, any time you have an officer-involved shooting it was always good for chiefs to get out as much information as they could quickly. and certainly any camera images that might be available as long as it did not get in the way of the investigation itself. so they there in minnesota, being able to get it out, to be able to show what happened, that's all well and good. but you still got a dead, unarmed african-american male who should not have died. but it did happen. and whether deemed accidental, whatever the final investigation determined, at the end of the
day, we have a problem here that needs to be addressed because too much, too often. and i think that anyone who has a conscious regardless of what color you are, if you have a conscious, you know that something here is inherently wrong in our environment. when you see the number of unarmed people of color being killed by the police and we got to figure it out because it does put you in the mind of this is a public health crisis. but i frame it quite frankly more of policing in this country that needs to be fixed and we need to fix it soon. we talk a lot around it, but we really got to put our arms around this issue because if you notice, gentlemen, is that these issues are becoming more frequent. the duration of them are more often and the psychological and emotional impact that it's having on people of color in this country area is
unbelievable because you convert -- you can just about talk to anyone of color -- you know, we all have a certain level of anxiety. we see a blue light in our rearview mirror, that is normal. i can tell you as a psychologist, that's normal. what's not normal is that people feel frightened to the point where they're afraid for their children to go out. they're afraid to go out. afraid of being stopped by the police. and then when we train people, teach people to do all the things that we're supposed to do, then what do we have? we saw what happened in virginia with the army lieutenant. he did everything he was told to do, pull into a lighted space. he was respectful and then we have this incident that occurred. >> yeah, yeah. i'm going to jump in. i'm jumping in and i'm keeping the whole panel here. i just want the viewers to understand we're going to go and check in because we have a reporter on the ground.
morgan chesky is in brooklyn center with some of the protesters. walk us through what you're seeing and what you're reporting. >> reporter: good evening. it has been the third night since the loss of daunte wright. this is the police department here where hundreds gathered last night, where monies of police used tear gas, smoke grenades, even rubber bullets to disperse the crowds gathered here. it is early in the evening, but you can see a sizable crowd already starting to form, calling for justice in the death of daunte wright, calling for justice after the death of george floyd just miles from where we're standing essentially. this is a community that is still reeling from that tragedy, now faced with another. and wondering where to go from here. a lot of people told me in this crowd that they came out a year ago to protest change then.
they're back out here tonight and they're hoping to create some sort of change that they feel like actually makes a difference. we do know there is a curfew in place tonight. we do know there are now 2,000 national guardsmen in and around the minneapolis area. that is an increase from the thousand we had on sunday and monday. so with the additional presence here of protesters, we do know that there is also a larger group of law enforcement here ready to meet them should things get out of hand. about a quarter mile behind my photographer is a strip mall that was absolutely looted last night before police could clear through that area. it wasn't until night fell and that's really going to be the time that a lot of people are going to have their eye on as they see what happens on this night. >> morgan, what does your reporting suggest today about the reaction of the protesters, of the activists given that there were swift action from the police department. there is the resignation of the
officer and the chief. if you can hear me and i know you're out there, what is the response you can deem from the community to those moves? >> reporter: well, it's certainly been acknowledged. we know that kim potter, the 26-year veteran submitted her resignation saying she believed it was in her best interest and the community's to do so. the police chief also stepping down. the folks who are coming out here, they say that of course that's a good first step. but it is what is the step after that and after that that's what these people are concerned with. how can we make sure something like this doesn't happen again. a mistake that ended with a man dying doesn't happen again. it's not enough right now. >> yeah. wanted to get that perspective there. morgan, thank you for your reporting. as mentioned, our panel stays here on "the beat." the president meeting with the congressional black caucus at the white house, a previously scheduled meeting. the shooting was addressed, of
course, immediately. >> my prayers are with the family. it is a really tragic thing that happened. the fact that is, you know, we do know that the anger, pain and trauma that exists in the black community in that environment is real. it is serious and it's consequential. >> your view of the president's remarks and where national leadership fits into this right now? >> here's the thing. almost all the issues we face with police departments are local. the federal government, i think we overstate the federal government's role in all this. 18,000 police departments local and like we need to be holding mayors, governors and state legislatures accountable. they have been off the hook for so long because people have been worried about what the president is going to do. they don't have a lot of juice in this area. mostly their juice is money. the police make a choice, right. where was he going?
the worst he could have done is just stayed in the car. he didn't have a lot of options. she made a choice to pull out a weapon. she made a choice to fire it. those are choices. the second thing is that the police in brooklyn center requires a resignation and a two-week lead time and she did not do that here. there is a question whether she got vacation payout, sick leave payout? i'm interested in what that will look like. will they be able to prosecute her? >> representative frazier, i'm curious what you think about the wider context. because i eluded to this before we went out to the local reporting, that the police defenders in this instance and the reason why they say they put the tape out is to emphasize it was a mistake rather than, for example, they argue the kind of illegal excessive force that would be deliberately used, perhaps in other cases. the problem with that, i think, was we look at these issues systemically is, what is the
overall pattern of how force is used in the first place? because if you pull weapons, if you resort to deadly force options, then the error rate there is going to trail that. and if you only do that in certain interactions or do that more with unarmed african-american suspects, then unarmed white suspects, then the error rate will be discriminatory even if we can't see into the mind of that officer. i think much of this is known, but we bare witness for a reason. black americans three times as likely to be killed by police than whites. three times as likely according to a harvard study, which speaks to the overall structure of this. >> so, ari, thank you for that question. i want to go back. this is a local issue. our state legislature has had over 21 hearings over the last two years dealing specifically with police accountability bills. we brought the community in to testify.
we're bringing these issues. we're passing them out of the house. we have a divided legislature, a divided house. we're passing bills out of the house. we have a senate refusing to hear these bills. but we're engaged because we understand it is a local issues. we have bills to deal with body camera issues, bills to deal with accountability. these things absolutely need to happen. and we did pass a bill to deal with and we're passing into law to deal with use of force and how officers have the ability to use deadly force. we have done that here. in this situation here specifically looking at the traffic stop. we have got legislation that is coming now to deal with traffic stops, to prevent these type of interactions, to stop officers from pulling folks over for expired tags or an equipment issue that's happening. we know far too many times officers use those stops as a way to engage with someone to do a search. oftentimes they use those potential stops and they're
looking at individuals who oftentimes look like myself and de ray or cedric. we have to put policies in place to prevent that from happening, to prevent situations from happening like what happened to daunte. >> i have about a minute left. chief, i want to give you the final word. >> i think both de ray and cedric, both being the young men they are, being the leaders of our communities and the future, quite frankly, they're the ones, to be honest with you, that i listen to and look up to because as we continue to move to around what we call reform or reimaging police or transformation, whatever you want to call it, it's been talk. we really got to enact a legislation that cedric talked to at a state level because that's where a lot of these laws are in place to give these protections that do not work to the benefit of the community at large. and i think the work that's been
done at campaign zero is hugely important at a county and state level. but let's not make sure we don't let the federal government off the hook either because there is still some responsibility that they didn't take around federal legislation in all of this as well. >> yeah. i want to thank any panelists. i'll mention cedric alexander. thanks to each of you. we have our shortest break on "the beat." we have 30 seconds. and we turn to the chauvin trial. we're back in 30 seconds. n 30 ss ♪ your purple prose just gives you away ♪ ♪ the things, you say you're unbelievable. oh! ♪ applebee's irresist-a-bowls are back. dig in for just $8.99. incomparable design makes it beautiful. state of the art technology, makes it brilliant. the visionary lexus nx. lease the 2021 nx 300 for $349 a month for 36 months. experience amazing at your lexus dealer.
turning to the other big story tonight, the derek chauvin murder trial is in a new phase against the backdrop of those tensions we have been covering. but the prosecution did formally rest its case today, saying they believe they have proven their case for murder. the defense begins its side of the story. they went through witnesses. they're on their seventh, so quite a quicker pace. they are expected to wrap up their side by thursday. as we have reminded everyone throughout this trial, the burden here is on the prosecution. so the fact that the defense is spending less time or going more quickly doesn't speak to the overall outcome. they did have a use of force expect today testifying that chauvin was, they argued, justified in the actions he took. >> i felt that derek chauvin was justified with acting with
objective reasonableness following minneapolis police department policy and current standards of law enforcement in his interactions with mr. floyd. >> a reasonable view of following local policy in what he did on that video. that is helpful if the jury believes that expert. it also, and this is why trials have two sides. i have mentioned that in our coverage throughout. get ready to hear the defense side and the defense witnesses. it obviously also clashes completely against what so many of the witnesses from the prosecution side set. he testified in the 2014 mcdonald trial in chicago and said highly excessive force there was justified use of force. peter chang responded on the scene, and this witness, again,
you have to hear all of the testimony, this witness in his view thought that the growing crowd could pose some sort of risk to the officers. >> there was a crowd. and i guess the crowd was becoming more loud and aggressive. >> did that cause you any concern? >> concern for the officer's safety, yes. >> did you notice anything in terms of the tone or tenor of the voices of those people? >> they were very aggressive. aggressive towards the officers, yes. >> did the volume increase? >> yes. >> i'm joined now by paul butler and mark clakston. thanks so both of you for being here. paul, it was effective when the prosecution had actual colleagues and even supervisors of chauvin basically indicting him, indicting him as using
excessive force. what does it mean for the jury to now hear others, including a declared expert saying the force was maybe, quote, following policy all along. >> just because the jury gets to hear both sides doesn't mean that both sides are equally valid. so this expert talked about the supreme court law on police use of force. but, ari, it is like he missed that day of his criminal law class. the supreme court says look at how serious the crime is. well, this is a petty offense over a $20 bill. the supreme court says look at whether the suspect is resisting. mr. floyd was in handcuffs on his stomach for most of the nine minutes. he was not resisting. the supreme court says look at the situation from the perspective of the police officer because he has to make a split-second decision. ari, this is the worst fact for the defense. it's true that in most cases an officer has to make a split-second decision because
he's shot someone. that's not this case. derek chauvin had 9 minutes and 29 seconds to decide and act and adapt, and he did not. >> you mention the handcuffs. mark, that brings us to another legal and use of force issue, which you have so much experience with. the effort to try to con tech churlize or justify keeping mr. floyd restrained by handcuffs. again, this is a rebuttal to what we saw earlier, the notion that that undercut intense and prolonged use of force. here there was an effort to context churlize it. take a look. >> i felt that derek chauvin was justified with acting with objective reasonableness following minneapolis police department policy and current standards of law enforcement in his interactions with mr. floyd. >> i'm talking to my control. i'm looking for the handcuff excerpt. let's see if we have that.
i'll just read a little bit of it, mark. part of what i'm looking at again, i want to make sure i get this precise because it matters, the notion that the jury was basically told i have been told when you have drug influenced persons, they stay handcuffed until they are taken to a medical facility. your response? >> that was something that's been covered early on. also, a couple other principles that are very relevant in as far as the use of the handcuffs or any other potentially even non-fatale weapons. and that is proportionality. we have gone over it a few times it's been discussed in and out because the force that's necessary, useful and required. but it goes back to that critical decision-making progress how a police officer has to in realtime make
assessments based on what is in front of them at that particular time and if necessary make the adjustments. so that may require a shifting of the person you have in your custody and control that may require adjusting handcuffs. that may require sometimes removing handcuffs. it depends on what's going on at that particular time. and that's why you have the use of force continuum, something else that they went over, over and over again. i have police academy nightmares using to that use of force continuum discussion, but they have gone over it. so the police officers don't act universally. there is no singular response method. you have to assess and judge it according to what's in front of you at that particular time. >> and, yet, mark, that's what's so difficult here for a jury where you need 12 people, according to the prosecution, to come down together. if one or two say they see reasonable doubt as to that use,
right, that can get tricky in an environment where historically we have seen a lot of the benefit of the doubt go to the officer. i want to play a little bit from cross where they discuss the idea of what a compliant person would be doing or not. take a look. >> the defendant did not alter the level of force that he was using on mr. floyd, did he? >> no. >> even though mr. floyd, by this point, had become, as you put it, compliant, fair? >> more compliant, yes. a compliant person would have their hands in the small of their back, resting comfortably. >> did you say resting comfortably. >> or laying comfortably. >> resting comfortably on the pavement? >> yes. >> at this point in time when he's attempting to breathe by shoving his shoulder into the pavement? >> i was describing what the signs of a perfectly compliant person would be. >> i want to go to mark on the
enforcement and then paul on the law. this is where it can feel a little or well yan because clinically you have this conversation about the comfortability of the individual. mr. floyd was drawing his last gasps of air in that prone position. on the use of force, mark, your response to that conversation. >> the prosecutor's cross in regards to that was significant because what it did was display that this particular witness, this expert witness, if you will, it really he comes from a subjective viewpoint. his viewpoint, his emphasis is tilted somewhat. it becomes obvious when you engage in significant questioning with him because he's not speaking about what actually is or what we saw. he's talking in some hypothetical way. he's behaving consistent with the defenses of planned strategy
with his -- to make this into a hypothetical defense. and i think the cross was significantly strong in exposing that. >> paul? >> ari, defense attorneying are better at prosecution than prosecutor because they get more practice at it. that didn't happen today. even though it was the defense in the beginning, the prosecutors still won the day. they got concessions from this expert witness, including that something that the crowd was doing justified the officer using force on mr. floyd, the expert conceded that a reasonable police officer should take into account whether a suspect has stopped breathing. and this expert said that chauvin's kneeling on floyd was in force because he said mr. floyd felt no pain. but then prosecutors showed him video of mr. floyd saying everything hurts. so this expert either didn't
review the evidence in advance carefully or he just does not recognize mr. floyd's pain. >> yeah. there was some important exchanges there again as you say, as you remind us, the jury has to make its determinations. and there was a type of informed incredulousness in some of the prosecutor's cross that could leave the jury going, wait a minute, how much does this make sense? paul and mark, thanks to both of you. coming up, we go to the capitol. william evans lies in honor amidst new questions when we return. we didn't stop at computers. we didn't stop at storage or cloud. we kept going. working with our customers to enable the kind of technology that can guide an astronaut back to safety. and help make a hospital come to you, instead of you going to it. so when it comes to your business,
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we have been tracking several major stories tonight. now we're looking live at the capitol where william evans is lying in honor today. any moment we expect his ceremonial departure to begin. leaders will gather has the casket is carried out of the rotunda. billy died when a car rammed into him near the senate office building earlier this month. he was the second capitol police officer to die in an attack this year. as we mark this and watch, i want to welcome to our coverage lieutenant general russell who led the security review of the capitol following the january insurrection. he also led a task force responding to hurricane katrina. with us catty kay and former
chief also with us. general, big picture, your thoughts as we take this in? >> well, hearts, minds and prayers go to officer evans family and his fellow officers. you see his remains being carried by the joint color guard, led by the two sergeant at arms. this is a very solemn moment, and it's a very chilling event. i was there for the last funeral. and it has a big effect on the capitol, police force and the family because while this ceremony is going on, they're still protecting the capitol, and they will be tomorrow
morning at 1:00, tomorrow morning at 3:00, just as they did on 1/6 to try to protect the capitol. and this is another day in history most people will remember where they were when this event happened. >> and, general, i think we'll go into this shot here in full as we take it in. walk us through what it means for these officers because you say january 6th hangs over all this. what does it mean for such an embattled force here to honor, remember and commemorate another fellow officer lost tonight. >> well, it's very similar to what we go through in the military, and this ceremony, the pomp of it and the circumstances associated with it is marked in history. the joint color guard, the same color guard that handled the bodies of presidents and other distinguished members.
this means a lot to these officers who, on any given day, are just faces in a stairwell checking somebody's id as you enter the capitol. but on that day when they're needed to protect the capitol, they're there 24/7. and they do it with a lot of having to work overtime because the formation is short. knowing there are things that they could be using in terms of terknology that could do it better. but that being said, they do their duty 365, 24/7. during the heat, the cold, during the crowds and when nobody is around. and this is a tribute to officer evans and his family. they will always remember this. but this is the ceremony we all wish we weren't having because it shows, again, they're willing to put their life on the line to
protect that capitol and, well, enough said. >> chief alexander, your thoughts tonight? we have called on you for more than one story and there is so many aspects to this because we were reflecting on the insurrection and the police response to that, the other tensions across the nation. and yet here in commemorating officer evans, you have someone who did what they were called upon to do, put their life on the line and paid the ultimate sacrifice in the line of duty, chief. yes. that's correct. as so eloquently stated, because no one can detail it as greatly as he can what we're witnessing and what we're seeing here is something that is sad to all of us, should be sad to all of us, because we have a number of military personnel serving around this country and locally,
and we have our police officers who do an incredible job in this country every day in spite of all the challenges that are in front of us. so we are sad. and the nation is sad that we did see two capitol police officers lose their life here in recent days. it should not have been, but it certainly needs to be a wakeup to this country that we as a nation, regardless of which side of the aisle you may sit on, regardless of where you may be from, the fact of the matter is that at the end of the day we're all americans and the only people that will fix this issue that took the lives of these officers and those others as well who lose their life every day protecting us, both our military and our law enforcement. it will take all of us to band together. and i think nobody know that better than people like myself and people like the communities in which we serve still every
day and communities that they themselves, too, salute this fallen officer tonight. >> katy kay, your views as we take in this ceremony for officer evans? >> as we watch his coffin being loaded into the herse there, it is hard not to think about his children who now don't have their father anymore. and a father, who as president biden said, was a hero. and maybe in years to come, not now because it is so hard, but in years to come, her heroism in protecting the capitol for all those years, in allowing the capitol building to be almost unique in the world, this open building, a building where the public can come and go, which is so uncommon for the seat of democracy in other countries.
>> yeah. and katy, you know, it was mentioned that this is both a ceremony and a workplace where they continue to have to defend and protect the capitol, which has been under more obviously sustained threat with national guard and other troop presence in washington, which has been debated and discussed precisely because of this time we're living through, katy. >> yeah. and, you know, the general knows this of course because he's looked at the security problems. clearly there are security issues at the capitol. and the big question, i think, for the people who serve in that building, not just the members of the security force but the members of congress is how open can they keep this building? can they keep this building open to the public in a way that's been so iconic in american history. if they're going to do that,
what does it take in terms of security. they have to come to an agreement of what the threat is. that's the concern. when you can't agree on what the threat is, it is hard to agree on what the solutions are. and we haven't seen much agreement. but maybe this moment, this incredibly poignant moment we're watching, ari, a 41-year-old officer who served at the capitol, who gave his life to keep that building open to the american public, maybe the life of billy evans and the ceremony we saw today can bring some sense of unity about the need for a commitment to keep that building secure and open. >> uh-huh. as we watch and continue to cover this memorial service, this ceremony, we have a little bit of information we just want to report and share at this time with viewers because friends, family and lawmakers are all reflecting on and honoring officer evans today. i can tell you he grew up in massachusetts. he served 18 years on this capitol hill police force. he does leave behind two young children. at one point during this service
today as speaker pelosi was speaking, evans daughter dropped a toy. and we saw this moment, the president of the united states picked it up. >> we hope it's a comfort to you that so many now know about your dad and know that he is a hero, that his names with all -- his name will always be on our lips and his memory in our hearts. and that the president of the united states is picking up one of your distractions. >> just a role moment of this president as so many know and as he has shared throughout not only his brief presidency so far but throughout his public life. the president knows grief but seems to be in a sad but real way at home with the humanity of it. these are times these moments where some want to recoil. he doesn't. we saw that moment and then we
heard from that president offering his condolences. >> i didn't know billy, but i knew billy. i grew up with billies. my prayer for all of you is that a day will come when you have that memory and it sends a smile before it brings a tear to your eyes. i promise you it's going to come. >> it was almost two centuries ago, and he is, as reported, the second officer to die this year in an attack. we wanted to share some of those moments earlier today, beyond broadcasting them live. chief, when you hear the president say quite candidly that he didn't know officer evans as he did it, he didn't know billy, but he did. a reference to knowing the type of service, the type of grit, the type of public sacrifice, i
wonder your thoughts about that as we watch. >> and that's exactly how i interpreted. and many of us have known billys. i believe what president biden was saying is that he was speaking to who he was as a person, an american, a brave, courageous individual, a person who believed in his country, believed in coming to work, sharing his space with others that worked with him and paid an ultimate price. we know people like that, people who walk unselfishly on this planet, who give the last that they have to someone else as this officer did. he gave his very last to keep that capitol open. that is what president biden is referring to. those are the billys that many of us know. some of us -- some of them have been our mothers, our fathers, our sisters, our brothers. but we have known them in the
course of our lives, our friends. but we all have so much to be proud of in this nation. and the proudness come from those who served and served as this fallen soldier have, this fallen officer has. and our hearts go out to him. that's what president biden is speaking to and speaking about. >> general, what can you tell us about what we're watching right now, the line of capitol police motorcycles? >> well, it's the escort that will -- that's become too much of an often seen tradition now to pay honor for their fellow officer. it is the motorcycle patrol. these become symbolic when we lose our officers. and nowhere is it full of
disbelief as it is today. it is a tribute and along the way fellow officers normally line the highway, those that can't be here, to make sure that honor is paid to officer evans as he moves home. >> indeed. as he goes from this life to the next after this public sacrifice that our guests have sadly, but i think ably, given some tribute to as we watch this procession go forward. i do want to thank general, katy kay, cedric alexander for marking this with us. we fit in a break now. we do have more coverage ahead. but we will be right back. es an. and if you're looking for...
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welcome back to our coverage. we are looking at this live footage. this is in brooklyn center, minnesota, right now. protesters continue to gather in response to that police killing of daunte wright. his aunt spoke to reporters earlier mourning the death. >> my nephew was a lovable young man. his smile, oh, lord, the most beautiful smile. y'all took that. my nephew's blood is on your hands.
>> i'm joined again by former federal prosecutor paul butler and mark claxton from the nypd and director of the black law enforcement alliance and, paul, we covered much of this in the incident aspects in the top of the program. we haven't delved as much into the legal and investigative process from here. what happens next with regard to what we see in these live shots of what activists are calling for, justice, investigation, independent probe, where do we go next in the reckoning for this controversial incident? >> the chief made the correct decision to resign his defensive statements didn't inspire confidence in the transparency and accountability of his department, so it's good that there's going to be an independent investigation. one question for investigators is why the officer would tase a person during a traffic stop for an expired tag. mr. wright was unarmed and not
suspected of any dangerous crime. another question is how the officer confused her firearm for a taser. >> well, mark, on that point, one of the defenses from the police in the early days of this has been that they say the officers became aware in advance that mr. wright was wanted for a misdemeanor arrest warrant. they say that that would go to their state of mind or their enforcement approach. walk us through that. >> well, their approach should be according to the reaction that they get from the individual who they're approaching or trying to apprehend. you know, as we indicated earlier there's no universal approach to apprehensions. there's no universal approach to arrests. not every arrest requires drawing of a weapon or firearm or taser. sometimes you have to rely on verbal commands. that is the most important weapon that you have are your
verbal commands and too often what happens is because there is a -- this -- you're predisposed, the beliefs that blacks are predisposed to conduct you approach them in a particular way that takes the level of force that you can use much higher. i mean and there are cases, oscar grant in oakland, another one that mistakenly the taser was mistaken for a firearm. a few years ago in oklahoma, mr. bates, 73-year-old volunteer deputy sheriff, once again, he said he mistook his firearm for a taser. the common denominator in this case, black victim, and in those cases and then address those issues. it's not merely a matter of training or correcting that training module. >> right, and what you're speaking to and i know what your organization has worked on is
whether you have that over policing. for example, a stop and frisk program that stops literally hundreds of thousands more black americans than others, that was the case in new york under mayor bloomberg, right, then everything that happens after that is already going to be somewhat spoiled or racially discriminatory. we are getting breaking news here on matt gaetz. i'll turn to that in a moment. before i lose marq claxton, obama saying the fact this could even happen in the city of minneapolis going through the trial of chauvin and reliving the heart-wrenching murder of floyd indicates not just how important it is to conduct a full investigation but had badly we need to reimagine policing, a joint statement from the former president and former first lady. your thoughts on that, marq? >> no matter what guideline, rules, regulations or even law, those things are no match for toxic police culture which is propped up by intolerance, bias
both implicit and explicit and racism and all too often leads to avoidable interactions of violence and nothing from toxic -- >> marq claxton, thank you very much. we'll stay nimble, paul, as a prosecutor, can hang with me. the hour is not over. we've been covering a lot of different important stuff. we just got news during this hour, breaking story this, is from "the new york times" on that republican representative matt gaetz facing this set of allegations regarding the doj sex trafficking probe. "the times" now reporting that the indicted gaetz associate joel greenberg has been cooperating with the department of justice and their investigators since last year. greenberg is currently indicted on 33 federal charges including sex trafficking and sex with a minor. it was his investigation which according to outside reporting led the doj to scrutinize matt
gaetz where he himself admitted, the trump ally, that he is a subject -- mr. butler, thank you for staying with us on breaking coverage. different story seemingly an interesting development. what does it mean, sir? >> this is matt gaetz's biggest nightmare, mr. greenberg is looking at serious charges and so he's in a mood to make a deal. the prosecutors want to find out everything he knows about representative gaetz's potential criminal exposure and if he's willing and the testimony is credible, they will use that testimony against mr. gaetz. >> let's talk timing because i want to mention this is a big scoop from "the new york times," breaking just in the past few minutes by definition i should mention nbc news has not confirmed this yet sourcing it to the times which defines two different sources for this. a lot of the narrative or talk was that greenberg may or would
flip at some point. the way the times reports this is that mr. greenberg has been cooperating in some manner, has been doing this for some time. what does that mean and is that worse news for this maga loyalist matt gaetz? >> it's worse news in the sense that it seems like the more law enforcement knows about mr. gaetz, the more interested they get in him, the more criminal exposure he has and so if mr. greenberg has been cooperating, whatever he's told the police and the fbi have only apparently made them more suspicious against the congressman. >> when you look at a situation like this with about a minute left, congressman gaetz has said and always report he's denied all wrongdoing and said he's only begun to fight. what will be the key in determining whether he can fight this off or whether mr. greenberg has the goods? >> the justice department is not
in a hurry. it will do a careful, considered investigation, the biggest concern for mr. gaetz is if a child is involved. if a 17-year-old, if at the end of the day this is about him paying sex workers who are adult, that's not a federal case. if there's a child involved including a 17-year-old, mr. gaetz has much to be concerned about. >> former federal prosecutor paul butler covering more than one story with us tonight, thank you, sir. >> always a pleasure. >> appreciate it. thank you for staying with us during this very busy night. we covered a lot of stories including the ongoing protests and potential for unrest in minnesota. the debate there over this new police killing as well as how it interacts with the george floyd trial. our coverage on that, those stories will continue tonight. i'll see you back tomorrow if you join us on "the beat with ari melber at 6:00 p.m. eastern. find us on social media
@thebeatwith arimelber. without further ado i'm signing off. "the reidout" with joy reid is up next. good evening, everyone. we begin "the reidout" tension bubbling over after two nights of protest following the shooting of daunte wright during a traffic stop in brooklyn center on sunday. outraged over the needless death of yet another black person in america at the hands of law enforcement, demonstrators last night gathered outside police headquarters where they engaged in a tense standoff and were met with tear gas. tonight the cities of minneapolis, st. paul and brooklyn center have all imposed curfews in anticipation of further protests. this comes as the defense began presenting their case today in the derek chauvin murder trial just across town in downtown minneapolis. word also seems clear chauffeur's lawyers are intent on putting the victim on trial hiti