tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC April 14, 2021 7:00pm-8:00pm PDT
all right, that is going to do it for us tonight. i'll see you again tomorrow, but now it's time for "the last word with lawrence o'donnell." good evening, lawrence. >> good evening, rachel. we're going to go to ron allen once again tonight in the streets of brooklyn center, minnesota where he has just been doing invaluable work for us reporting from the streets as he has done in the past in these kinds of situations. this is one of those weeks that we feel like we've lived through
before, but it's new every time. >> yeah. exactly. and this is now with four sustained days of protests as we head towards the end of the derek chauvin trial ten miles away as the defense heads through its part of that trial and we're heading towards a verdict there, it does feel like we're going to be there and our attention is going to be there for quite some time. >> yeah, it is. thank you, rachel. >> thanks, lawrence. well, we're just an hour away from the curfew tonight in brooklyn center, minnesota where once again protesters have gathered on the day when the police officer who shot and killed 20-year-old daunte wright while he was unarmed was arrested and charged with second degree manslaughter. curfews in neighboring minneapolis and st. paul were in place last night at the same hour but were lifted tonight. last night 79 people were
arrested in brooklyn center, minnesota. joining us now from brooklyn center is nbc news correspondent ron allen. ron, you led us off last night. what is the difference tonight? >> lawrence, it just feels a lot more intense. there is a smaller crowd, but there just seemed to be a lot of energy there. in the last hour since nightfall, we've seen projectiles, rocks and bottles going one direction, rubber bullets, other projectiles coming from the police as well. it goes on and on. if you take a close look, you can see it again, that fence over there which is the entrance to the police headquarters which, again, has been the focus of the protesters and the police and national guard. there is a significant national guard presence again there tonight.
troops in camouflage and heavy militarylike vehicles back there, again trying to protect this place and keep the protesters back. all of this comes down to the next hour. what will happen in the next hour as we approach curfew? will the police and national guard decide to push and clear the street out here as they have the past few nights? how long will they let the protesters continue to go on? i hear explosions going off in the background, again, those flash things, and again, we can see some smoke now rising out in front of the gate. but there is a smaller and deterring crowd out there tonight. there is also a lot of folks out here creating mischief. we've heard of a lot of hostility directed at us, at the media. there was some stuff on social media going on telling people to smash cameras and attack journalists. there have been some of our colleagues that have pulled out.
we are staying back further tonight than normal because of the feeling we've had as we approached nightfall. there's just something different than last night. again, as we approach nightfall, the intensity just picks up. lawrence, back to you, yes. >> lauren, what about the arrest tonight of the police officer? is that why we're seeing a smaller crowd tonight? >> perhaps, lawrence. i think for the most part people feel that the manslaughter charge should have been a murder charge. simply put, they feel that daunte wright was murdered in the streets during a traffic stop. they think manslaughter is letting the officer off too lightly. they feel there is evidence of a double standard, evidence of a racial standard. a lot of people point to the case of mohammad noor, a former
minneapolis police officer who was convicted of manslaughter and murder back in 2017 in the case of a resident who called 911 reporting a problem, and as she approached the police car where noor and his partner were still in, he opened fire, killing her tragically in a case of apparent mistaken identity. he said in court that he felt he and his partner were being threatened. again, very different case, but he was convicted of murder, sentenced to 12.5 years in murder. this officer, potter, faces manslaughter charges, not murder charges. that's why people are angry. they want to see a special counsel take over this case, not have the local prosecutors handle it, because they feel the local prosecutors in this state are too close to police. they're also down here today, a group of state legislators who
have a whole list of reforms they want to see pushed through the legislature that they say they're getting opposition from the governor and others who are blocking this. it's a whole litany of reforms to the juvenile justice system to sentencing. they want more records expunged, criminal records expunged. moves that we've seen in other states happening that have not been happening here. so the bottom line is that, lawrence, regardless, there is still a long list of demands, a lot of frustration that go beyond the case of daunte wright, that go beyond the case of george floyd, and that will continue to be voiced here for some time to come, i think, for the coming weeks. lawrence? >> nbc's ron allen, thank you very much for that report, and we'll be coming back to you, ron, as the hour proceeds as you think is necessary. at 11:30 a.m. this morning, the now former police officer who
shot and killed daunte wright was arrested on sunday. the complaint says kimberly ann potter created an unreasonable risk and consciously took a chance of causing death or great bodily harm to daunte demetrius wright. a condition of second degree manslaughter carries a maximum of 20 years in prison and a $20,000 fine. prosecutors said in a statement today, quote, certain occupations carry an immense responsibility and none more so than a sworn police officer. we will vigorously prosecute this case and intend to prove that officer potter abrogated her responsibility to protect the public when she used her firearm rather than her taser. in a press conference today, the
mayor of brooklyn center, mikel -- mike elliott, said this. >> i share our community's anger and sadness and shock. and my message to all who are demanding justice for him and for his family is this. your voices have been heard. now, the eyes of the world are watching brooklyn center. and i urge you to protest peacefully and without violence. >> later today the mayor visited the family of daunte wright at a vigil where daunte wright's sister said this. >> look at him and look at him and say, oh, he needs to die. oh, taser, taser, taser!
but you know the difference between a taser and a gun. that's what i'm trying to figure out. she took my brother's life for nothing, for nothing at all. the reality here is that he's gone and i can never see him in person again, can never feel my brother and give him a hug because they took him from me, they took him from us! >> joining us now, f. clayton tyler, former prosecutor, he is now a criminal defense attorney in minnesota. thank you very much for joining us tonight. what is your reading, your interpretation of these charges today? >> i think that minnesota is leading the way in swift charges against police officers right now. it didn't used to be that way. however, i think that after all the body cams are in and the background of the officer comes around, i think that we'll have
a situation where we look at maybe a third degree murder charge also. >> is there a possibility of what happened in the derek chauvin case happening here where the state attorney general takes over? >> there is a possibility. i think that as in the chauvin case, they're doing an excellent job of prosecuting that case. i think that a lot of times people are concerned that the local district attorney is not going to be as vigorous in the prosecution. i know pete orpit, i've known him for a long time, he's a very good, very dedicated public servant and he'll do a good job prosecuting it, but if keith ellison takes over, i think they'll do an equally good job. >> you mentioned the possibility of increasing this charge. what would have to be the threshold reached to do that and
what would you expect the body camera evidence to reveal that would make that possible? >> third degree murder convictions are very tricky in minnesota right now because the courts just ruled that a shoving case could use third degree -- chauvin case could be third degree murder but it had to be accepted by the judge. the body camera would have to show something of a depraved mind, something out of the original comments that this individual made. i'm not sure what, if anything, could kick it up to that level, but i think that the prosecutors will have to take their time and look at it in detail, and i think that they will. >> a "new york times" survey today found that in the last 20 years, at least 15 other cases of police officers mistaking
their guns for tasers caused weapon confusion. in the last year, only five of the officers were indicted, only three, including the other two cases in which people were killed were eventually found guilty. so there is a pattern here historically of this mistake being made, but the prosecution of it obviously is not common. >> it's very difficult. you've got a compelling videotape. the defense attorney that's going to be handling the case, earl gray, is an excellent defense attorney, one of the top five attorneys in the state of minnesota, and he's going to be looking at every aspect of the case in terms of whether or not she was thinking that he was going for a gun in the car or whatever. they're going to try to put the victim on trial, which is unfortunate, but that's what they're going to try to do.
>> f. clayton tyler, thank you for your insights. we appreciate it. >> thank you, i appreciate it. >> joining us now is brooklyn center tina smith of minnesota. thank you for joining us, and you are joining us once again while protesters are on the street in minnesota. you were with us when we were covering the protests of the killing of george floyd last year. what is it like for you to be back seeing this again in minnesota? >> well, thank you, lawrence. it's great to be with you. i feel like i think a lot of people people on the streets of brooklyn center tonight and all across my state. a sense of exhaustion, grief and also anger and frustration. i mean, how many times do we have to see a black man die, get killed, be murdered, at the hands of law enforcement?
it keeps happening over and over again. i was talking today or communicating with my friend valerie castile who is the motherof philando castile who died in another traffic incident with her son, philando. and valerie said, how many more panels, how many more expert groups do we ever to have bringing forward ideas before something finally changes? she said, i want solutions, and that is what i see and feel in brooklyn center and in my community of minneapolis tonight. >> you have said that this is another incident of what you call overpolicing. how would you control that? >> what i hear from folks that live in north minneapolis and brooklyn center and communities of color all over my state is they feel overpoliced and underprotected. so when they need help from law enforcement, they can't find it,
but when they were simply driving and minding their own business, they end up being pulled over in a traffic stop that could be fatal. that has got to change. that is the system of policing in our country and in my state that has got to change. and we know what to do. we just have to find the will to do it. the legislation that we put forward after the tragic murder of george floyd almost a year ago, we put forth the george floyd justice and policing act that would help to get at the challenges that we have holding police officers accountable, addressing the issues of kbaul -- qualified immunity, getting rid of these excessive use of force standards that we have in police departments all over this country. those would be some specific things that we can do, yet right now those are being stopped in the united states senate, and that is a tragedy that is going to continue to be a tragedy unless we take action. >> senator, what is your confidence level in the washington county district attorney's office to handle this
case, and should it be handled the same way the george floyd case was handled and moved to the state attorney general's jurisdiction? >> well, i think the most important thing is that the person who was prosecuting the case has some distance from the law enforcement that is the defendant in this case. i don't know the prosecutor personally in the county. i have great confidence in what attorney general ellison is doing right now with the derek chauvin trial. i think that he is prosecuting the case vigorously, and that is what we need. that is what the community wants to see, somebody who really has all of their heart and all of their energy into getting accountability for these cases. because you need to have justice for the killings of daunte wright and george floyd, but you also have to be able to address the systems that allow this to
happen over and over again. >> and what about at the federal level? is there anything that can be done from your position in the senate? >> well, we should be passing right now, we should be taking up the george floyd justice and policing act and that would make a huge difference for our ability to stop the worst of these excessive use of force standards and also make it easier to hold police officers accountable. but the other thing, to be a little bit optimistic in this, such a grim moment, is that there are examples of innovation happening in local police departments all over the country. and i propose legislation that would have the federal government support those innovations as we reimagine what public safety can look like. and if we were able to pass my legislation as well, we would be able to support those -- not experiments but efforts to really try to change the way we do this overpolicing and underprotecting so that those
local departments can actually make the kind of changes that they need. that would make a difference, too. >> minnesota senator tina smith, thank you very much for joining us tonight, and i'm sorry that tonight you're once again joining us during what you've called appropriately a grim moment for minnesota and the country. thank you very much. >> thank you, lawrence. well, today derek chauvin's defense team put its most important expert witness on the stand to challenge the medical examiner's finding that the death of george floyd was a homicide. that's next. that's next. e is austin james. as a musician living with diabetes, fingersticks can be a real challenge. that's why i use the freestyle libre 14 day system. with a painless, onesecond scan i can check my glucose without fingersticks. now i'm managing my diabetes better and i've lowered my a1c from 8.2 to 6.7. you can do it without fingersticks, too. ask your doctor for a prescription for the freestyle libre 14 day system.
and visit freestyle libre.us to try it for free. how great is it that we get to tell everybody fhow liberty mutualibre customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need? i mean it... uh-oh, sorry... oh... what? i'm an emu! no, buddy! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. ♪ [sizzling] i may not be able to tell time, but i know what time it is. [whispering] it's grilled cheese o'clock. (vo) ideas exist inside you, electrify you. but i know what time it is. they grow from our imagination, but they can't be held back. they want to be set free. to make the world more responsible, and even more incredible. ideas start the future,
just like that. facing leaks takes strength. so here's to the strong, who trust in our performance and comfortable long-lasting protection. because your strength is supported by ours. depend. the only thing stronger than us, is you. open talenti and raise the jar. to gelato made from scratch. raise the jar to all five layers. raise the jar to the best gelato... you've ever tasted. talenti. raise the jar. hey xfinity, show me disney plus... i'm here on business. i need your help. you've ever tasted. i've been quested to bring this one back to its kind. now you can access exclusive disney originals... we are an unusual couple. oh i don't think that was ever in question. ...and stream must-see disney new releases! people need this symbol. where do we start? find the best in entertainment all in one place, with disney plus now on xfinity!
black man who was killed when he was apprehended by three police officers in maryland in a manner similar to what happened to george floyd. the three police officers held anton black down and he died. the medical examiner in that case, dr. david fowler, ruled that the death of anton black was accidental. dr. fowler is now being sued in a federal lawsuit by anton black's family saying that he covered up the true cause of death. today on day 13 of the trial of derek chauvin for the murder of george floyd, the defense called dr. fowler to testify for the defense. dr. fowler is no longer a medical examiner in maryland. he is now a professional witness for hire who is paid an hourly fee for his services. dr. fowler went to medical school in south africa, he did a residency in pathology at the university of maryland. dr. fowler is by far the most important witness that the defense has called in a case
that is all about the cause of death according to the defense. defense counsel said, in the opening statement, that the defense would be entirely about the cause of death of george floyd. the medical examiner in minnesota ruled that george floyd's death was a homicide. in addition to the medical examiner's testimony, the prosecution has offered testimony from a world-renowned physician, dr. martin tobin, who is an expert on breathing. dr. tobin pinpointed the exact moment on the street after george floyd stopped breathing, the moment which, as dr. tobin put it, was, quote, the moment the life goes out of the body. the prosecution also offered testimony from a cardiologist who explained that george floyd did not die from any form of heart disease. the cardiologist testified that george floyd's heart stopped only because of the pressure on his body from derek chauvin that cut off the flow of oxygen in
george floyd's system. and after all of that careful and precise medical testimony delivered by the prosecution, witnesses today, the entire defense case came down to this rambling answer to this simple question. >> how would you classify the manner of death? >> so this is one of those cases where you have so many conflicting different manners. the carbon monoxide would usually be classified as an accident, but someone was holding him there, so some people would say you could elevate that to a homicide. you've got the drugs on board. in most circumstances, in most jurisdictions, a drug
intoxication would be considered to be an accident. he's got significant natural disease, certainly the heart, you can certainly consider it as a potential exacerbating process but i wouldn't put it at the top of the list. so he's got a mixture of that, and then he's in a situation where he's being restrained in a very stressful situation, and that increased his fight or flight type reaction, and that would would be considered a homicide. you put all of those together, it's very difficult to say which of those is the most accurate, so i would fall back to undetermined in this particular case. >> lead prosecutor jerry blackwell's cross examination of dr. fowler was aimed at eliminating a sudden heart attack as a possible cause of
death. >> if you apply pressure to someone's neck and squeeze until the person becomes unresponsive, and you maintain that pressure for at least four minutes, you will cause irreversible brain damage because you will have starved the brain of oxygen. is that true? >> correct. it takes four minutes of no supply of oxygen to the brain to cause irreversible brain damage. >> now, if somebody dies as a result of the consequences of insufficient oxygen or low oxygen, we know that when that person dies, they're going to die a cardiopulmonary arrest because everybody dies a cardiopulmonary arrest. fair enough? >> yes. >> if a person dies as a result of low oxygen, that person is also going to die ultimately of a fatal arrhythmia, right?
>> yes, because that would be a fatal arrhythmia? >> did you notice that after four minutes, mr. floyd went unconscious? >> yes. >> did you notice that sometime after five minutes, he was found not to have a pulse? >> correct. >> in your report you refer to this as a sudden death event, but in your report and your findings, you don't record a time, do you, sir, for when the sudden death supposedly occurred, do you? >> i don't specifically remember doing that, correct. >> joining us now, criminal law professor at law school, and both are former nypd police
detectives. once again, gentlemen, we are sharing the screen with the live action in brooklyn center, minnesota as the protesters have gathered there. professor burkhalter, let me start with you as a trial tactician and get your reaction to what you saw in court today. >> sure. lawrence, let's take the totality of all the medical experts who have testified, all of those on the defense side and the expert that testified for the -- i'm sorry, for the prosecution and the expert that testified for the defense today. as the children's show says, which one of these things doesn't belong together? and what do i mean? the prosecution presented very credible medical experts, and what's important is they were able to support their positions, their conclusions under cross. that's juxtaposed with this particular expert that was unable to support his conditions
under cross-examination. and why is this so critical? because at the end of the day, we know that causation is the critical issue. that's what the jury is going to consider, and in a battle of the experts, it tends to be the expert that is most credible and the one that is strong in his or her convictions and that can support their conclusions. so, you know, taking a look at this testimony holistically, it didn't fulfill those categories. it didn't inspire confidence. this theory about the carbon dioxide was unsupported, that george floyd could have died from carbon dioxide poisoning or the inhalation of carbon dioxide from the police car, totally speculative, and we didn't see that from the other side. i don't think this testimony helped, however, the defense had to find somebody to say that george floyd did not die because of derek chauvin, and quite
frankly, this is the best they could come up with. i don't think it worked so well on the jury for those reasons. >> on cross-examination, dr. fowler seemed to help the prosecution more than the defense wanted him to, especially on the question of giving medical attention to george floyd. let's listen to that. >> do you feel that mr. floyd should have been given immediate medical attention to try to avoid cardiac arrest? >> as a physician, i would agree. >> are you critical of the fact that he wasn't given immediate emergency care when he went into cardiac arrest? >> as a physician, i would agree. >> marc claxton, the defense then puts on questions criticizing them for not giving
aid to george floyd. >> we've spoken in the past of police officers acting in the color of law. they show up in their uniform, they ever the vehicle, all the equipment, they're on duty, but they operate outside of the law. misbehave, if you will. we say that's operating under the color of laws, very detrimental to public safety. these expert medical witnesses are operating under the color of science. because much of their testimony, their direct testimony, is not supported by any facts, it's theoretical, it's hypothetical, it's easily picked apart. just as important, the body language, the breathing betrays them every step of the way. you can hear the sighs and the
difficulty in even producing an answer that's somewhat responsive to the prosecutor's cross. so these medical witnesses are operating under the color of science. >> marq claxton, kirk burkhalter, thank you for joining us tonight. your valuable courtroom experience is something we always appreciate. once we come back from this break, we're going live to the scene in brooklyn center, minnesota with ron allen. we'll be right back. right back. (vo) the subaru outback.
dog tested. dog approved. it doesn't happen often. everyday people taking on the corporate special interests. and winning. but now, the for the people act stands on the brink of becoming law. ensuring accurate elections. iron-clad ethics rules to crack down on political self-dealing. a ban on dark money. and finally reducing corporate money in our politics. to restore our faith in government. because it's time. for the people to win. did you know that your toughest cleaning problems because it's time. can be caused by hard water metals? they lock in residues like a glue, on your hard surfaces and fabrics. try 9 elements. its vinegar powered deep clean dissolves hard water buildup and releases trapped residues and odors like detoxifying your clothes. made with never more than 9 ingredients.
9 elements - more than a clean, a cleanse. did you know you can go to libertymutual.com to customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need? really? i didn't-- aah! ok. i'm on vibrate. aaah! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ open talenti and raise the jar. to gelato made from scratch. raise the jar to all five layers. raise the jar to the best gelato... you've ever tasted. talenti. raise the jar. bipolar depression. it's a dark, lonely place. this is art inspired by real stories of people living with bipolar depression. emptiness. a hopeless struggle. the lows of bipolar depression can disrupt your life and be hard to manage. latuda could make a real difference in your symptoms. latuda was proven to significantly reduce bipolar depression symptoms, and in clinical studies, had no substantial impact on weight.
now i'm feeling connected. empowered. latuda is not for everyone. call your doctor about unusual mood changes, behaviors or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children, teens, and young adults. elderly dementia patients on latuda have an increased risk of death or stroke. call your doctor about fever, stiff muscles, and confusion, as these may be life-threatening, or uncontrollable muscle movements as these may be permanent. these are not all the serious side effects. this is where i want to be. talk to your doctor and ask if latuda could make the difference you've been looking for in your bipolar depression symptoms. cyber attacks are relentlessly advancing. to end them, cybereason built a cyber security solution you've been looking for so advanced... it can end attacks today -- on computers, mobile devices, servers and the cloud. and deliver future-ready protection, keeping you sharp for tomorrow. join us, the defenders, in our mission. cybereason.
nbc's ron allen. ron, what is the situation there now? >> reporter: well, things are ratcheting up, lawrence. if you can look behind me in the distance there, you can see that there are a lot of flashing lights. we saw a long line of flashing lights, police cars, or vehicles, coming into where the protesters are. this happened last night as well, but the number of cars, it's dozens of vehicles. they're so far away, i can't really tell, but it was just a huge, huge show for us. and since that has happened, the protesters are directing their attention in that direction and away from the police headquarters to some extent. last night the number of arrests was close to 80. and each night the number has increased. it appears that that's what's going to happen again, perhaps because again they are pushing
in from the far side of the protest, and it is an incredibly large show of police force. inside the compound here, the national guard troops and the police are holding their positions. we have not seen the protesters trying to breach it as they did in previous nights, and at this point, the focus seems to be -- is, well, certainly is, on whatever is going on back there. and it's a lot of police. it appears that as the curfew strikes in another -- less than a half hour or so, the police are going to make a statement and try to get people out of here. as soon as they started making an announcement that this was an unlawful assembly, the protesters were cranking up the music on their cars, which is something you can hear now. they were also blaring their horns, effectively ignoring the
demand to move out, so the tension here is really ratcheting up. >> ron allen, thank you for that update. we really appreciate it. when we come back, joe biden made an announcement in history today for declaring an end to the forever war in afghanistan. that's next. forever war in afghn that's next. wet teddy bears! wet teddy bears here! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ new pronamel mineral boost helps protect teeth against everyday acids. pronamel boosts enamel's natural absorption of calcium and phosphate - helping keep teeth strong, white and protected from sensitivity.
managing type 2 diabetes? you're on it. staying fit and snacking light? yup, on it there too. you may think you're doing all you can to manage type 2 diabetes and heart disease... ...but could your medication do more to lower your heart risk? jardiance can reduce the risk of cardiovascular death for adults who also have known heart disease. so, it could help save your life from a heart attack or stroke. and it lowers a1c. jardiance can cause serious side effects including dehydration, ...genital yeast or urinary tract infections, and sudden kidney problems. ketoacidosis is a serious side effect that may be fatal. a rare but life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking jardiance and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this bacterial infection, ketoacidosis, or an allergic reaction... ...and don't take it if you're on dialysis or have severe kidney problems. taking jardiance with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. lower a1c and lower risk of a fatal heart attack? on it with jardiance.
ask your doctor about jardiance. [sfx: psst psst] allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily stops your body from overreacting to allergens all season long. psst! psst! all good today president biden set an end date of september 11th of this year for the final withdrawal of u.s. troops in afghanistan where we once had 98,000 american troops and today we have 2,500. >> we already have service members doing their duty in afghanistan today whose parents served in the same war. we have service members who are not yet born when our nation was attacked in 9/11. war in afghanistan was never meant to be a multigenerational
undertaking. we were attacked. we went to war with clear goals. we achieved those objectives. bin laden is dead and al qaeda is degraded in iraq, in afghanistan. it's time to end the forever war. >> the forever war is now in its 20th year, and after announcing the plan to end that war today, president biden visited arlington national cemetary to honor members of the military who lost their lives in afghanistan and iraq. >> it was a hard decision to make, sir? >> no, it wasn't. to me it was absolutely clear. absolutely clear. >> joining us now, ben rhodes, former deputy national adviser to barack obama, and ben, we are continuing to cover the conversation in brooklyn center, minnesota, so we may be sharing the screen with some of the
images in the street there as we speak. this was obviously an end day, and the withdrawal of troops could be accomplished before that time, but that's the end point for this. >> yeah, and i think that's intentional, lawrence. first of all to essentially make the point that having been there 20 years, we can hold our heads up high and say that militarily we've done everything that we could, first in defeating al qaeda, taking up bin laden and then in trying to give the security forces and afghan government a chance here, but there is a limit to what we can do militarily anymore. the american people will see september 11 as a marker, and we're moving into a new period where we will no longer have troops in afghanistan. president biden not only framed it as the end of our presence in afghanistan but the end of a
period that began on 9/11. >> the president said we could see military action there before september 11. listen to what he said if the taliban attacks while the troops are being drawn down. >> the taliban should know that if they attack us as we draw down, we will defend ourselves and our partners with all the tools at our disposal. >> ben, that sounds like something that could get us reengaged militarily. >> i don't think so, lawrence. i mean, i think that joe biden essentially looked at the arguments from his team. i'm sure that the military was arguing to keep some force in afghanistan. i'm sure the intelligence community was warning the taliban could take over large parts of the country if we left, and evaluating those risks, i think he determined that this is still the right decision to make, again in part because our military having troops there isn't solving problems in
afghanistan. the only thing that can really solve those problems is some kind of diplomatic agreement in the country. i think he was saying very specifically a withdrawal could be a vulnerable time for our forces. they're moving out, they don't have the kind of large force that can come to the aid of a departing u.s. convoy, and he's sending a message to the taliban that if you take action, you could face u.s. airstrikes, u.s. military force here. but i think the direction he set is pretty clear and that's the direction of leaving afghanistan. >> let's listen to what the president said about the terrorist threat that could remain in afghanistan. >> we'll not take our eye off the terrorist threat. we'll reorganize our counterterrorism capabilities and the substantial assets in the region to prevent reemergence of terrorists and a threat to our homeland over the horizon.
we'll hold the taliban responsible for a commitment not to threaten anyone or its allies from its soil. >> saying we'll told the taliban responsible could sound awfully strange. >> lawrence, i think that's the message he's sending. the people there who suffered so much is going to be a different place here. it is going to be an agreement between the military and the taliban, and within that, the taliban shouldn't think they'll provide a safe haven to al qaeda or threats to the united states. this is going to a model where it's utes use air power, often working with partners on the ground who share our objectives in terms of eliminating
terrorist safe havens. it doesn't require 100,000, 150,000 or 200,000 troops to be in the country anymore. he's suggesting we'll use air power, an emergence that threatens us in the united states. >> what has changed from the obama white house to the biden white house? >> well, part of it, lawrence, is simply the passage of time. i was thinking today that not only is it 20 years september 11, this june will be a decade since we began our drawdown from afghanistan. this is not a precipitous withdrawal as republican opponents of the decision have been framing it, this has been a decade in which we've been handing things off to the afghans. i frankly think we could have made this decision in 2015 and 2016. i think part of what made that decision difficult at the time for president obama was you had the rise in devices and there was some concern whether there could be an isis-safe haven in
afghanistan. but i think now, part of what's happened, lawrence, the american people want to move on. president biden is talking about rebuilding this country, not the trillions of dollars we spend in afghanistan and iraq, but the proposals he's putting in front of america. he's talking about china, he's talking about the challenges from pandemics and climate change. it's time to turn the page here even as we have to continue to support the afghan people diplomatically with our assistance. >> ben rhodes, thank you for joining us on this historic night. we really appreciate it. coming up, the police have declared an unlawful assembly in brooklyn center, minnesota. we are ten minutes away from the curfew being imposed there. and during another week of the protests of the killing of an unarmed black man, the black caucus went to president biden and vice president kamala harris
to talk about reform and other issues. that's next. and other issues that's next. freestyle libre 14 day system. with a painless, onesecond scan i can check my glucose without fingersticks. now i'm managing my diabetes better and i've lowered my a1c from 8.2 to 6.7. you can do it without fingersticks, too. ask your doctor for a prescription for the freestyle libre 14 day system. and visit freestyle libre.us to try it for free. ♪♪ making a difference, starts with making a commitment. a promise to others. using the lessons you've learned. the values you believe in... to show what you're truly capable of. ♪♪ so you want to make the best burger ever? to show what you're truly then make it! that means cooking day and night until...
[ ding ] success! that means... best burger ever. intuit quickbooks helps small businesses be more successful with payments, payroll, and banking. with relapsing forms of ms, there's a lot to deal with. not just unpredictable relapses. all these other things too. who needs that kind of drama? kesimpta is a once-monthly at-home injection that may help you put this rms drama in its place. kesimpta was proven superior at reducing the rate of relapses, active lesions and slowing disability progression versus aubagio. don't take kesimpta if you have hepatitis b, and tell your doctor if you have had it, as it could come back. kesimpta can cause serious side effects, including infections. while no cases of pml were recorded in rms clinical trials, it could happen. tell your doctor if you had or plan to have vaccines, or if you are or plan to become pregnant. kesimpta may cause a decrease in some types of antibodies. the most common side effects are upper respiratory tract infection, headache
and injection reactions. dealing with this rms drama? it's time to ask your doctor about kesimpta. dramatic results. less rms drama. when our daughter and her kids moved in with us... our bargain detergent couldn't keep up. turns out it's mostly water. so, we switched back to tide. one wash, stains are gone. daughter: slurping don't pay for water. pay for clean. it's got to be tide. ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. thank you! hey, hey, no, no limu, no limu! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ want to save hundreds on your wireless bill? with xfinity mobile, you can.
how about saving hundreds on the new samsung galaxy s21 ultra 5g? you can do that too. all on the most reliable network? sure thing! and with fast, nationwide 5g included - at no extra cost? we've got you covered. so join the carrier rated #1 in customer satisfaction... ...and learn how much you can save at xfinitymobile.com/mysavings.
we are exactly nine minutes away from the protest in brooklyn center where police have been telling protesters to go home. the black caucus is meeting with president biden and vice president kamala harris for the first time in four years. we ever with us congresswoman beatty and the vice chair of the black caucus. congresswoman beatty, what was the purpose of meeting with the president and vice president? >> thank you for having us on. we had an agenda. we wanted to share with president biden or 101st
objectives, our goals. we want to make sure he knew we were talking about people and that included vaccination, voting rights, civil rights and jobs in the economy. but we also wanted to talk about the criminal justice system and what's happening with far too many of our young black men, especially, being killed, so we had a full agenda of saying here or our goals and objectives. one of them was to meet with the president and to clearly set up ongoing dialogue with him. we were very supportive of this president. he's been very supportive of our issues, so we wanted to make sure that the executive committee sat down with him to help develop a plan. and we shared a dozen of our top priorities with him. very clear, we had some deliverables that we wanted to come out of the meeting with, so we could continue to build back better.
>> congressman horsford, what did the president and vice president tell you about their concerns coming out of minnesota this week? >> well, lawrence, first i want to join with congresswoman beatty and the entire congressional black caucus in extending our prayers and condolences to the wright family. daunte wright should be alive today. what the president said in the opening remarks of the meeting is that this has to stop, that black lives matter. as a black parent raising two sons and a daughter with my wife, this is trauma that our families experience every single day when we wake up to the news of another black life lost, killed at the hands of law enforcement. it's why we have to pass the george floyd justice and policing act and the president and vice president share our goals in making sure that we
hold officers accountable by ending very draconian practices like the chokeholds that contributed to the death of george floyd and other standards that need to be reformed throughout law enforcement. this is not about one police officer or one department, this is about systemic racism that has to end in this country. >> congresswoman beatty, what was it like for you to go to a meeting with the president and the vice president, and for the first time in history have a former member of the congressional black caucus sitting across from you as vice president of the united states? >> well, it was very welcoming to have vice president kamala harris there, it was very reinforcing. she's a member of the vice presidency, she's very vocal.
we had to have a conversation about something that could have been very uncomfortable for other people. we were very comfortable talking about systemic racism, talking about what you're covering today. as steven said, it has to stop. we have to write policies and legislation. will that stop all of the senseless killings? no. but we have to stand up for the people we represent, and it's happening far too many times. we are at the same time witnessing live on tv the trial for the killing of george floyd. eight minutes and 26 seconds was bad enough and now we're hearing 9 minutes and 29 seconds. whether it's a $20 bill, a cigarette, an air freshener, this is something that the black caucus will be joining with other communities, civil rights groups, to make sure our voices are heard and that we're going
to share our power and our message. this is our 50th anniversary, and we are the largest caucus within the congress, and this is one of our top priorities along with covid-19, making sure we get people vaccinated. >> congresswoman joyce beatty and congressman steve horsford, thank you very much for joining us tonight. we have just arrived at the curfew hour in brooklyn center, minnesota. msnbc's breaking news live coverage continues on "the 11th hour with brian williams" which starts now. and good evening once again. while this was, indeed, day 85 of the biden administration we are, in fact, keeping an eye on brooklyn center, minnesota. as lawrence just mentioned, as the curfew is now in effect on night 4 of unrest there, that has followed the point blank police shooting of daunte wright, more on