tv The Week With Joshua Johnson MSNBC August 1, 2021 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT
thank you for watching tonight. it's time now to turn it over to my colleague joshua johnson. good evening, john what. >> good evening, mehdi, thank you very much. it is good to be with you tonight. senators are giving speeches on the floor after finalizing the text of the bipartisan infrastructure bill.marilyn cens live in just a. moment -- withdraws from another olympic event. t. how do you convince unvaccinated people you know and love to get the shot. how will the pandemic change the way people gather if we get together at all? we will get into that with preet parker, the author of the art of gathering, how we me and why it matters. i'm glad you're meeting up with us tonight and nbc news headquarters in new york, i'm
joshua johnson? welcome to the week. the sun is working. it's infrastructure weekend on capitol hill, we heard from kristen cinema of arizona and rob portman of ohio. they just gave short speeches on the senate floor. they have been among those leading the negotiations on this bill. now we still don't have the final text, but the plan is to file that bill is a substitute amendment tonight. the current bill is just over 2700 pages long. so far. the senate will then move to the amendment process, where we are told this should be completed in a matter of days. but the bipartisan bill is just half of the story. majority leader chuck schumer promise once that legislation has passed, he will mediately move to the budget reconciliation instructions. those blue principle at the senate begin working on a 3.5 trillion dollar social health and environmental bill. sometimes we've called it the
human infrastructure bill. using reconciliation to pass that, one would allow for a simple majority vote in the senate. that would mean every democrat would need to be on board. the progressives in the house have already made it clear that their plan is to oppose the bipartisan infrastructure package. unless the reconciliation bill also makes it through. but senate moderates are not making any promises. >> this is a deal. and we have a tight margin in the senate. i respect that we have to get senators sinema and manchin's vote on reconciliation. they should also respect that there's a very tight house margin. and we have to be able to uphold our end of the bargain as well. house progressives are also part of the majority. >> you can't really guarantee anybody, if not guaranteed anything on pieces of these legislation. you can do it you can pay for. this is paid for. >> if only that was the only conflict on capitol hill this
weekend. a newly-obtained audio clip, captures house minority leader kevin mccarthy making these comments, about how speaker nancy pelosi. >> and what you do watch nancy pelosi hand me that gavel. [applause] it will be hard not to hitter with. it >> mccarthy deliver those remarks during a tennessee republican party fund-raiser. a spokesman said that he was obviously joking. let's begin with democratic senator ben cardin of maryland. senator cardin, good evening, glad to have you with us. >> joshua it's good to be with you. >> what is your understanding tonight of where this bill stands. the 2700 plus-page bipartisan bill. how is that doing tonight? >> i think we are going to see the specifics of the bill before the night is out. this is going to be a good week for jobs, for bipartisan legislation. for moving forward. the infrastructure for
transportation, for energy, for water infrastructure, broadband inner fracture and creating jobs in america. it's going to be done in a bipartisan manner. it's going to be a good way for the united states. senate >> earlier we had elizabeth warren, on colleague alicia menendez. she said this bill's been two hours away for days now. how confident are you that you're going to get about before sunrise? it seems like this is been going on for quite some time. >> it has been going on for a long time, because quite frankly, this specifics are difficult, the draft and the committees were not involved in the original drafting and negotiations. we have been very busy all week and making sure the bill is drafted properly. i am confident we will see the bill tonight, and that will start voting on amendments tomorrow. i know it's been a long process, but the prize at the end is not only passing this infrastructure bill. but getting on to the budget reconciliation bill. which is so important for the
american people. >> what is the biggest thing, senator, that you like about this package. at least as you understand it so far. and the biggest thing that you would like to see improved? >> well i like about this bill as it incorporates the work of the committees on the transportation infrastructure, that will significantly increase our building of roads, bridges, transit systems, rail. it will increase dramatically our water infrastructure, getting lent out of play. allowing us to move forward with a lot of projects that can help our environment, and help is far as clean water is concerned. would i like about this bill is it's a major investment and will create a lot of jobs. it's done pipe partisan. it pays the way where we can get the broader bill done that deals with protecting american families, such as dealing with affordable childcare. pre-k aged three and four-year-olds for school.
dealing with the affordable college education. all those issues it paves the way for us to be able to get that done. >> what do you think are the odds of that? i know progressives in the house have said they are not going to support that larger bill, the bipartisan bill, unless that larger bill makes it through as well. senator joe manchin says he's not making any promises. what do you think? if you had a handicap it, does it look like they're both going to make as their stand right now? >> there's been a lot of investment in moving this infrastructure bill forward. by not only the republicans, but the democrats have been working very hard on this. i think we want to get this to the finish line, we recognize to get this to the finish, line we have two pieces of legislation that we have to get done. >> you are confident that both making at this point? >> look there is a lot of obstacles along the way. eu never make definitive
predictions in the united states senate. i do believe we can get both of these bills, done and we can get him done this year, they are certainly going to patch the budget registration before we leave for august. schumer has made that very clear. i am optimistic that we have a path forward, that can really help the american people. >> i hear you're not counting those chickens before they hatch. i totally hear even. that anything can happen from here in. now but one thing some senators seem to be optimistic about, is enough republicans will support the. bill that includes senator sue collins of maine. this is part of what she said earlier today. watch. >> i have worked with the members so that we have a state by state analysis. and in the end, i think we will have more than ten republicans, who support the bill. >> senator, how do you see it? >> i think this bill will get more than ten republicans. we're talking about building roads that are desperately
needed in our community. improving our transit systems, improving the rail service, improving getting let out of play. i can't believe that a lot of republicans don't want to be part of this historic effort. and the committee i serve, on the environment public works committee, we passed major components of this bill, by unanimous votes, for all the republicans join the democrats. that was the building block for this bipartisan bill. the work of our committees. i am optimistic that we will have a significant number of republicans who will join us, in saying that we need to modernize america's infrastructure, and we need to create better jobs in this country. >> let me shift gears a bit and ask you if i may about some more partisan matters, including the comments that were caught on tape, by house minority leader kevin mccarthy. this is not the first time that he has made some controversial comments along that line. listen. >> it'll be before we swear in the president again. but the reason why i want you
to come, i want you to watch nancy pelosi hand me that gavel. and i promise you this, i will bang her with, it but i'll bang the end to the socialism. >> part of me here is that in thinks, this is the thing that kevin mccarthy has said before. any just kind of repeated a joke, dusted it off the shelf. but i think after january six, after we had mobs of people, stalking the halls of the capital saying nancy where are you? it takes a whole different kind of tone, for him to make that kind of a joke. how do you see it? >> it's horrible. for him to say, for the republican leader to make that kind of comment, after we went through on january the six, we need to heal this country. we can have our partisan differences, we recognize that. but we have to bring our country together. we need leaders that are going to tell the american people we need to get you vaccinated, so we can get this virus behind
us. we need leaders that are going to tell the american public that what happened on january six, was an insurrection against our democracy. in those responsible need to be held accountable. we need to get to the truth. we need leaders that will level with the american people. our democracy depends upon. america's global leadership depends upon. i think leader mccarthy has failed to provide that leadership with those types of comments. >> before i let you go i want to ask you about the gubernatorial race in your state next year. former rnc chairman in -- has reportedly formed an exploratory committee, to consider running for governor. currently maryland has a republican governor. which you make of the possibility of there being another republican governor succeeding larry hogan? >> i'm very confident that democrats will win the governor spot in maryland, we have great candidates in maryland. for the democratic nomination.
it will be a competitive election. we know that. whenever there is an open seat for governor, you know you're going to get a lot of interest, but i'm very confident, that the vision i have seen from those that are running on the democratic, sides or with the people of a maryland wants. and they want to see that type of progressive leadership in our state. >> maryland senator ben -- i hope you get to bed in a decent hour. tonight until then i'll let you get back to work on capitol hill. thanks very much. coming up, persuading the unvaccinated. preaching in arguing don't really work. but it's technique called motivational interviewing, could help you convince others to get their shots. plus, who better to explain what simone biles might be going through, than someone who has been on the mat herself. olympic medalist and three-time world champion gymnast, chelsea mantle joins us later this hour. first, here's the headlines. >> a good sunday to. you a texas sheriff's office opened an investigation after video surfaced this weekend social media. the video may be disturbing to
some viewers as you see it here. it shows a coffman county deputy grabbing then pinning 18 year old to the ground. she can be heard saying she cannot breathe more than 20 times in that video. deputies were responding to a call that it scene was jumping in front of traffic, which she and her lawyer both denied it was her. her mother was taken to jail, in later released in this altercation. the teen was taken to a mental health facility. for evaluation. the sheriff's department is saying that that technique the deputy used to pin her, avoids obstructing breathing. the deputy was put on leave pending an investigation. more in the week with joshua johnson, right after this break. h joshua johnson, right after thi break. break. st seems to go your way. ♪ ♪ you're in good hands with allstate. click or call for a lower auto rate today. darrell's family uses gain flings now so their laundry smells more amazing than ever. you're in good hands with allstate. isn't that the dog's towel?
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holding pretty steadily. back in december, 15% of people said they would definitely not get a vaccine. after six months, that number had held pretty steady, 14%. that is despite overwhelmingly positive data about the safety and effectiveness of the vaccines. for many vaccinated people, this is understandably frustrating. if you ever tried to persuade someone to get their shot, perhaps you know how difficult that can be. but scalding people with facts and figures, and data, clearly are not changing many peoples lives. i mean, would you want someone to scold you about anything? besides, there may be a better way. where the track record of success, it's called motivational interviewing. it could help you persuade someone you love to get vaccinated. joining us now is can rest macau, he is a professor of health education at the university of michigan school of public health. professor, welcome to the program. >> thank you for having, me
joshua. give us the basic definition, what is motivational interviewing. >> motivational interviewing is a style of communication that is used among health care professionals and many other facets of the health care delivery system that is patient centered, it uses a lot of reflective listening, supports the economy, and generally it doesn't use a lot of unsolicited advice. >> you are telling people to give unsolicited advice, i think we have a problem with this method for some of us. what is wrong with giving unsolicited advice in your experience? >> a couple of rules, one is mostly the advice that we offer people have already heard about and rejected already. it is more of a nuisance factor. until we establish some report with the person, let them express their concern, and this case bring it back to the vaccine that concern is about getting the vaccine. until you have brain that swamp of negativity and allowed them
to just charge their resistance energy advising them and even informing them is premature. we have to first neutralize the resistance. >> elaborate on that. the idea of trying to drain the swamp as you put it. it seems kind of like something that i have done as an interview or where, if someone is kind of busting with something they want to say and it kind of hot to say, it if i just let them speak, and let them say what's on their mind, that buys mean to ask whatever i want because they know i have heard them, and then we just talk like civilized people. the sound similar to that. >> it sounds like you have had some motivational speaking joshua. there is some very concrete tips that we can offer to people that allow that swamp to be drained. one of them is to use reflective statements. what do you worry most about with the vaccine or what if anything can i do to move you forward? let them explain their anger
mistrust and doubt and then reflected back with you statements you are worried that the government is trying to force the sun people you don't trust the public health system. you are not convinced that the disease is the scary as people say. those new statements, without judgment, without trying to persuade, they send a meta message that i am trying to understand, you i will not judge, oh i will not push you. >> i think you have kind of got it one of the problems that some folks have with this which is, they don't want to understand. they are very strong judgments against people who have not already gotten vaccinated, or are resisting vaccination at a time when people are getting horribly sick, and dying incredibly terrible deaths. if they don't want to get vaccinated then, to hell with. them i can't reach them anyway, let me just show you out and get all on with my life you are a lost. cause what's wrong with that? >> well, i think that is certainly understandable, that frustration amongst the vaccinated. however, we know from hundreds of randomized trials that, that
type of communication, guilt, shame, pressure, they are not gonna move the and persuaded. we have to do something like a firm, things like you really care about understanding this vaccine. you have really tried to figure it out and value your independence. it is important to establish that bridge before you try to persuade or anyway inform. we understand it takes some psychological discipline because human nature's design -- aligned with the things you said. people are getting fresher with the unvaccinated. >> i just want to be clear with what you are saying, you are talking about reflecting understanding, not agreement? this is what one of our former guests, chris vos, says this tactical empathy. you are not seeing you agree with, them you are just reflecting back so they know that you heard them as they intended to be heard, is that right? >> precisely. by using you statements rather than i agree statements, that simply establishes that i'm
hearing you. it's not necessarily endorsing your belief, but i am understanding what you are telling me. f, butback in may, my colleague lawrence o'donnell held of vaccinate america court hall. someone helped us get to the vaccines we have now. she spoke to some in the audience about concerns about the safety of their vaccines and knowing who to trust. i would love to get your reaction to the way that she handled that situation, watch. >> you know, i get it. i completely understand. from where i sit, i think i have realized that in this moment, i sit in a place of privilege where i have information on the day-to-day basis about these vaccines that in general person does not. the one thing that reassures me constantly, a seeing overtime, more and more people getting these vaccines and they are so clear, and chris, within that they are safe and that they are effective. right after the town hall event she helped off the stage and
spoke to a gentleman one-on-one, and then doctor corbett was there when she got a vaccine in virginia. what do you make of how dr. kizzmeza corbett handled that. >> there are little tricks that i can say she and asked for information to get -- we call it the lieutenant colombo technique repose neutral information, you decide they provide. rather than saying here is an extreme, one on the host set fox news, and they are being lied to. we added more neutral approach we enlisted -- you know, i heard that many of the hosts on fox and america news have been vaccinated. how do you understand that? what do you make of? it and puts it back on the
person to interpret the wrong information. that's another attempt to get people react and, as you say. >> how have you seen this work on covid-19? this is not just some kind of like, hopeful theory. this is actually being used by clinicians now to get more people vaccinated, right? >> yes. we are in the middle of several randomized trials in the state of michigan, working for black and hispanic churches and working with federally qualified health centers where we provide some training material so they can incorporate and into their work flows. we'll have results in a few weeks and months and based pawn previous trials were optimistic that this is one of the most effective way to handle these issues who have asserted independence. >> we already tried anger. we might as well try empathy. there are too many lives to be saved not to try everything we can. professor of the university school of public health, thank you very much.
>> getting people vaccinated is just one challenge in our post-quarantine. worldwide about the gatherings in and vance we took before covid? we are going to rethink how we gather, just ahead with a guest. stay close. guest. stay close ice works fast. heat makes it last. feel the power of contrast therapy, so you can rise from pain. feel the power of contrast therapy, we did it again. verizon has been named america's most reliable network by rootmetrics. and our customers rated us #1 for network quality in america according to j.d. power. number one in reliability, 16 times in a row. most awarded for network quality, 27 times in a row. proving once again that nobody builds networks like verizon. that's why we're building 5g right, that's why there's only one best network.
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senate. the rock -- it is the a working weekend in the week is moving. senate. we along chuck schumer have just learned that chuck schumer has has officially introduced a finalized officially test of the bipartisan infrastructure bill on the senate floor. that is senator mike lee, a republican from utah who is speaking now. senate majority leader schumer doubled down in his promise to take out the budget reconciliation destructions -- suctions once the bills. passed two bills, the bipartisan harden prestructure build the roads, tunnels, bridges bill, which costs a little over half trillion dollars. then there is the so-called human infrastructure bill which is upwards of 3.2 trillion dollars. that one will be passed along
party lines through the process of budget reconciliation. so now we've got the tests are at least we are waiting to get our hands on it and it's been filed with the make a bill which looks like it is something north of five rings of paper that now have to go through the regular process. they put a place holder bill in until the text was done and now the text is done. we will see what happens from here it's not quite clear exactly when the senate is going to adjourn as we mentioned senator mike lee speaking right now but they are trying to get some motion on this quickly. august recess is around the corner, democrats are trying to capitalize on it a little bit and deal with progressives in the u.s. house, we are not entirely sure that the two bills will meet their policy needs. the bill is, then we are trying to get our hands on. it we will keep you updated until the evening, and of course tomorrow. keep an eye on it online. if we learn more about it during this broadcast, we will certainly let you know. let's move on. the highly contagious delta variant has upended many
peoples plans. probably yours as well. major companies are you thinking the dates about returning to. office the lollapalooza concert was back in chicago. concert goers were met with a big change. organizers are now requiring masks in indoor spaces. our get togethers may never be the same after this pandemic. that kind of makes this the perfect time to rethink how we gather, and whether to make changes. priya parker specializes in sharpening the ways we show up and connect. in her book, the art of gathering, how we meet and why it matters. she wrote this, quote priya parker joins us now. welcome to the program. so glad you are here.
>> thank you for having, me joshua. great to be here. >> i am really digging the book. i cannot wait to get my way through. this you see i have posted's here? >> i see it, very impressed. >> well, it just feels like one of these things that everyone has got a story about, whether it's the meeting that takes to, long or the birthday party that everyone is like -- more gawk pleased, one is my lift getting here? there are so many amount of issues that we have with the way we get together. how has covid specifically covid, shifted the way you look at the ways in which we gather? i wrote the art of gathering more than three years ago. i had no idea that gathering would be something that seemingly overnight, 16 months ago, became the illegal book at, was became abolished temporarily. when i wrote it into thousand 18, i rode it in part because even, then well before we had to rethink how we gather, a lot of the ways we gather was not
really working. we won -- on autopilot, meetings where we are texting on the table, weddings where you can't wait to leave a little early. i am a confident for -- solution facilitator. i wrote this book in part to show how when we actually think about why we are gathering, we are not stepping on auto pilot that we have to do. covid has basically happened in the way we gather and first and foremost, we no longer take it for granted. and when we get together, while we come together and last march, basically overnight, we all had to pause, the majority of us, and basically think about how do we still meaningfully connect? how do we still get married? >> yeah. >> how did we still run a staff meeting when we can't physically be in the same room? what covid has done for the
vast majority of people, is help us actually pause and think about when and why, and how you gather, and for what. >> one of the challenges we had is in dealing with our political and -- controversies. it's flared hotter or where we normally don't want to lean into those things. you write in your book about something called good controversy in terms of the way that some gatherings work. to embrace could controversies to embrace the idea that harmony is not necessarily the highest, and certainly not the only value in a gathering. good controversy helps us see what we hold dear, via -- nonnegotiable's. it is not really in conservation. listen leads to something better than the status quo. please tell us more about how that might be applicable in some of the ways we struggle to gather today. >> one of the things that covid
has done is unveil many of those conversations and systems that we're not working for many people well before covid hit. it basically makes subtext into actual text. part of what allows for good change, is to begin to actually have conversations, listen to the people who often haven't had voices before, and so many of our institutions and families, churches, we often connect with an unhealthy piece as well as healthy conflict. >> say that i'm again. say sorry to interrupt. you that one more say that one more time. time. that needs i think that needs to be to be repeated. >> repeated. say that one more. second >> connection -- connection, meaningful meaningful connection. connection -- is often is often as threatened by as threatened by unhealthy
unhealthy piece as it piece, as it is by is by unhealthy conflict. unhealthy conflict people. people not saying what it is not saying they actually what it is they actually think -- i mean, twitter is not -- think it's not healthy. conflict, necessarily. >> no. >> particular within within our neighborhoods so much of the way we interact, is actually determined by what we are not willing to say, or when we are not willing to approach. so, we have an opportunity in often don't get to be heard, to have meaningful conversations to face who we are as a company. who are we as a family. when we learned over the past year and a half about our church and community. that perhaps they were troubled before, now we weren't paying attention to in ways that were being taken seriously. can i ask you, about there are thousand things i like to ask
you about. but if we just drill into this, one i think it will be time well spent. in terms of the ways we deal with, that you kind of get of that on page 2:44 of the book. you say in invent planner, and the question she asked before putting an event together, what is the gift in broaching this issue in what is the risk. is it worth it and can we handle it with care? i think, that is one of the huge deficits i find, in the way that some organizations try to lean into uncomfortable conversations. they want people to assume all the social risk, of ripping open a wound and looking at what's inside it, but they're never really clear on what the gift is. and what the planned payoff should be, if everyone does their part. >> i love that you chose this quote, in this moment to focus on tonight. she is this underground
experience designer, who well before covid, created experience for groups, teams, families, groups of friends. to help them take more safe risks together, psychological, physical. and i asked her, when and how, the rest of us are not going to be planning those kind of dangerous experiences, but what can we learn from you? and she said, every time i'm working with a group, i asked myself these were questions, first, what is the gift, in helping this group face this issue. second, what is the risk. third, is the gift worth the risk. and whether you're a family, i think we have this narrative that the country is so divided, all of those people over here and we people over there. but i'm biracial. i'm by religious. i come from a family that is not a monolith. most of these conversations need to be happening within our
communities. and often when we begin to have conversations with care, within or organizations, within our company, when you actually want to belong to a place, it increases the reasons and the purposes and the beneficiaries, to actually have these conversations. but they need to be done with care, and they need to be done with a very clear purpose in mind. >> very briefly, before i have to let you go. i know a number of companies are working through the return to work plans. what is one thing is you are helping with gathering make overs, what is the one thing you want companies to keep in mind, as they are thinking through returning to the office. briefly before we go. >> to really deeply think about, when and who needs to come back. and why. and what is the nature of the collaboration that truly needs to be in person. and what can actually be done virtually. and second, two explicitly have this conversation around who and what we are centering. i think team should actually pause, and have this conversation, to ask these
three questions. first, when we could not gather and meet in the same ways, what do we long for. when you are meeting with your team, what were you so frustrated, that i said i wish i could just be in. person i just wish i could put the senate flip you're. i wish i could fight with you this way. in really see that. the second is, what did anyone not miss. and let's not do that again. in the third is what did we invent during the pandemic, that we actually want to bring with us. and i'm offering these free conversations every wednesday, to really help people reimagine gathering, reentry and have this once in a generation opportunity to specifically think about when and why and how do we gather. >> the book is called the art of gathering, how we meet and why it matters, i cannot wait to put more post-its in this book. pre-a parker, pleasure spending time with. you thank you so much. coming up, simone biles said she is putting her mental health first in tokyo. will our future in former
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she will withdraw from tomorrow's final. the four time gold medalist four time gold medalist had already already pulled on the pulled out from the all-round the vault all, around belt, and fires, that leaves one a bit left to perhaps compete into states bounce contexts. miss biles cited her mental health as part of her reason for withdrawing. she's been dealing with a severe case of the twisty, said kind of mind, body disorientation. gymnast chelsea mammal won silver at the 2008 olympic. she said the twisty's feel kind of like your body and your brain are fighting each other, says chellsie memmel. she is the three-time world champion, she joins us now. chellsie memmel welcome to the program. good to have you. >> thanks for having me.
i can't imagine what the twists must feel like, as soon as i heard it i thought it's almost like if i went on a rollercoaster and i came of the rollercoaster in someone's in a dual backflip. i would be ready to run for the bathroom right there there is no way i can do that without losing my lunch so i can only imagine what it was like when you were sailing through the air, and your brain doesn't know where your body is. how do you deal with that? can you get out of it? >> and -- i mean, you could work through it. it's not a process that can be rushed. sometimes you have to go back to the beginning and re-learn the skills from starting with a simple full twist, then a double, and she is doing triple twisting, double backs, and that is one of the hardest skills you can do. it is very dangerous. you don't know where you are there, it can be dangerous. >> can you just -- explain what it's like when the
twists set in? >> it's really hard to just give you this really easy explanation but, you go and if you are tumbling you do a handspring get to the punch. planning to do your double twist, triple twist, and you start, then you stop in your brain is like -- whoa. your body just kind of freaks out any sometimes open up and have no idea where you are in the air. it is so different because, generally when we go, we know where we are. we plan what we are doing, then your body and mind say no, not doing that. >> it is kind of like your brain tells your body, what the hell are you asking me to do, then it just gets shut down? >> yes, yes. >> sorry. >> what? >> sorry, i didn't mean to take you back there. i imagine it is kind of terrifying to think about but -- >> it is. i have had it when i was a kid. sorry, my daughter decided not to do bedtime today so she is
helping me explain the twists here. >> that is all right. >> how do you deal with that. what kind of support is their mental when you get where you needed to take care of that? >> for me, i did. my coaches were very understanding. we had the time. i wasn't in competition, in competition mode. i had the soft landings. it's like when you're in the competition setting, you don't have all of the big stop, that you don't have a pit foam to london. i had the time to be able to go back and re-learn it, time is a luxury that simone obviously doesn't have right now at the olympics. >> i'm tempted to make faces back, i will resist. i won't do that. can i ask you though, as a parent, which you think in terms of the impact that simone biles's story might have on woman? there was an op-ed that uses
miss biles as a positive role model for teens, and asks parents to take a hard look at their value system that pushes kids to obsess over what is described as extreme external achievement and performance. what do you make of that? >> obviously, i think what you showing is incredibly brave. it is incredibly smart just for her to put the safety of her mind and body first. y of her not just trying to push through and injure herself, something like that could be catastrophic with the level of difficulty that she is doing. so to show athletes -- and not just jim needs, but athletes coming up, that it is okay to take your time and work through things and it's okay to not be okay, and okay to take a step back and need help. the message she's sending --
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