tv The Sunday Show With Jonathan Capehart MSNBC August 8, 2021 7:00am-9:00am PDT
u.n. ambassador linda thomas greenfield who led the u.s. delegation at the closing ceremonies of the olympics, and tina chen, president and c.e.o. of time's up, the organization formed to battle workplace sexual harassment and discrimination against women that now finds itself in the middle of the andrew cuomo scandal. i'm jonathan capehart. this is "the sunday show." ♪♪ ♪♪ this sunday we're just one day shy of the senat's planned recess and what has been called the world's greatest deliberative body still has business. they will deliberate on a $trillion infrastructure bill. it's the first of two bills. this one is expected to pass in the coming days with bipartisan support. then the democratic senate majority is hoping to pass an
even larger, more progressive bill through reconciliation. that's a special filibuster proof maneuver that requires a simple majority for passage. in other words, without republican support. meanwhile, the senate continues to work on voting rights. the judiciary committee met saturday with a former trump d.o.j. official and a key city in afghanistan just fell to the taliban. that will be of key concern to the senate foreign relations committee where my first guest is a member. joining me now is senator jeff merkley of oregon. senator merkley, thank you for coming back to "the sunday show." >> you're welcome. good to be with you. >> all right. let's start with infrastructure. will -- i understand senator haggerty of tennessee raised objections, i think put a hold on proceedings because he wanted to go back to regular order. will things get back on track today? >> yes, we're in a 30-hour period before our final vote from being held, a simple majority vote on the substitute
amendment. but then face the complexities of the senate we have to go back and close debate on the bill as a whole. takes 60 votes, another 30 hours if senator haggerty and others force us to utilize that whole amount of time. it will get done. >> i was about to ask, is there any concern the bipartisan bill will not pass? >> no, i think it was very clear, we had 18 senators on the republican side who joined us in closing debate. two others said they would do so, but they were absent. so we have pretty strong support, strong bipartisan support. this is the transportation, the broadband and water portion of the work that needs to be done. that leaves us with a whole lot more on climate infrastructure and housing infrastructure, education and support for families. >> in terms of the reconciliation bill which would be the simple majority, democrats-only bill, the second bill, how concerned are you that
that is the bill that's going to be even more tough -- more tougher -- will be tougher to pass than the bipartisan bill? >> well, it does require all 50 democrats to hang together, and there are differences of opinion as we noah mong 50 members. so there will be a lot of work on the individual components. exactly how do you do the climate infrastructure? how do you do the housing infrastructure? do you do the full tax credit for children which left half of american children in poverty? do you do paid family leave, and how do you raise money to pay for it? so there will be a lot of work. i am convinced we'll get it done. will it be exactly $3.5 trillion? i'm sure certain provisions fall out because one member blocks it probably. but as a whole we will succeed in that vision. >> senator, i want to switch gears and talk about the breaking news this morning out of afghanistan. the city has fallen to the taliban. you're on the senate foreign relations committee. how concerned should the united states be by this development?
>> so, this is really what we have anticipated all along, that as we -- the americans stopped providing as much support on the front lines, the taliban has been continuing military offensive. we tried to turn it into negotiations so that the taliban would halt these offenses and negotiate and be part of future government. it is extremely hard to do. but here's the broader point, jonathan. we have been there for 20 years. we have always been the wrong force to occupy and control what's happening in afghanistan. we paid a huge price in treasury, trillions of dollars now, huge price in blood and injuries of american soldiers. and really, the destiny is going to be figured out by the people of afghanistan. and it's not going to be what we can impose. we should have learned that lesson long ago. but they will eventually have to figure it out. >> and, senator merkley, one more question to you because you're a member of the senate
rules committee. i know you are also a part of the broader committee trying to come up with a voting rights bill that could be voted on before you go to recess. how are things with that? are we actually going to see a bill come out of the senate before you go on recess? >> no, no, we will not. what we will see are procedural votes to try to get a bill onto the floor. that takes republican partnership. we will not get that. behind the scenes we are closing in on a bill, i like to think of it as manchin 2.0. he laid out a good framework on key points, stopping billionaires from buying elections, stopping gerrymandering, and protecting the pulsating heart of the america, the ballot box. so we have some details to work on that vision to have all 50 on board. hopefully over the break there will be the possibility republicans deciding they want to join us in defending these constitutional principles. they did take an oath to the
constitution. but if they do not join us, that sets the stage for 50 of us to come together and defend the constitution, defend the right and freedom to vote when we get back. >> all right, senator jeff merkley of oregon, thank you for coming back to "the sunday show." let me turn the attention to and the conversation over to senator alex padilla of california, also he's a member of the homeland security and judiciary committees. senator padilla, welcome back to "the sunday show." real quickly, i asked this question of senator merkley. i'm going to ask it of you. how confident are you that the reconciliation bill that is supposed to be passed by simple majority, meaning all of the democrats plus vice-president harris casting a tie-breaking vote, can actually pass? >> look, i'm very confident actually. after four years of infrastructure week, we're on the verge of getting step one done this week, the bipartisan package. the reconciliation bill, the
democrats' only package that you're mentioning, i feel very good about happening in the next few weeks. there are going to be some tweaks maybe to the $3.5 trillion figure possibly. there are going to be some tweaks to how we're paying for this. i definitely think. and in a good way. one example is the improved irs enforcement of the wealthiest americans, large corporations paying their fair share of tax dollars that the republicans changed their mind no longer wanted in the bipartisan package. that's something that we can take up in the reconciliation bill to make sure we're responsibly funding climate change policies and investing in american families. >> i want to turn our attention now to a story that's being reported, particularly in "the new york times" about really an extraordinary senate judiciary committee meeting with the former acting attorney general
jeffrey rosen testifying before the committee yesterday about this letter that was being cobbled together by another former d.o.j. official, jeffrey clark. i understand that you were not at the -- that particular hearing, but you are on that committee. how significant is it that this former trump d.o.j. official quickly, after "the new york times" story hit, testified before the committee? >> look, i think it's a hugely significant and timely for all the attention that's been paid to infrastructure of late. you know, we have a lot of other responsibilities, too. we had an impeachment trial earlier this year that brought to light a lot of specifics in terms of donald trump's role in subverting our democracy, including, but not limited to the deadly insurrection of january 6. our republican colleagues wouldn't go along with establishing an independent bipartisan commission to get to the root cause of it.
the house has created a committee. so whether it's what the house is going to investigate and bring to light, or as you just mentioned, former d.o.j. officials sharing with the senate judiciary committee, we need to continue to investigate, need to get to the root of it, and then hold trump and his enablers accountable. >> and, senator padilla, same question that i asked senator merkley, and that is about voting rights. how confident are you that the united states senate is going to not only release a new voting rights bill, but vote on one, if not before the recess, before the end of this year? >> yeah, so the good news is we have not given up the fight. i know they tend to focus on infrastructure, but i along with senator merkley, senator warnock has been in the room, senator schumer himself has been in the room trying to craft a new alternative to protect our
fundamental right. time is of the essence. the 2022 elections will be here before we know it. we hope to unveil something later this week and act on it in the month of september. >> something unveiled later this week, that is good news because i'm dying to see what this manchin 2.0 bill is going to look like. senator alex padilla of california, thank you very much for coming back to "the sunday show." >> thank you, jonathan. coming up, congressman joe neguse is here to discuss the $1 trillion infrastructure bill. keep it right here. ure bill keep it right here what happens when we welcome change? we can transform our workforce overnight out of convenience, or necessity. we can explore uncharted waters, and not only make new discoveries, but get there faster,
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with the senate working to cross the finish line on the trillion dollar bipartisan infrastructure bill today, the house is waiting in the wings and a draft letter obtained by nbc news, some hod rat house democrats are calling to immediately pass the bipartisan bill once it clears the senate rather than waiting for the larger democratic-only bill that will come later. this comes as progressives say
they're willing to tank the entire process if both bills aren't voted on simultaneously. joining me now is colorado congressman and former house impeachment manager joe neguse. thank you very much, congressman neguse, for coming back to "the sunday show." i have to get your reaction to this. is the idea of tanking everything if both the bipartisan infrastructure bill and the democratic-only reconciliation infrastructure bill, the larger infrastructure bill both don't come from the senate? is that smart? is it worth it to do that? >> well, first it's good to be with you, jonathan. the decision as to when we will consider in the house the bipartisan infrastructure bill or reconciliation bill, those will be decisions that are ultimately up to the speaker and i certainly trust her judgment in that regard. i think it's a little premature in terms of the timing of both bills. for me it obscures the larger context which is under president
biden's leadership, democrats are delivering. you have a bipartisan infrastructure bill which you discussed with senator merkley that does address a number of important priorities including wildfire resiliency, which is critically important to me and my state of colorado and the western united states. but there's also a number of other priorities that we have to address in a larger reconciliation bill. i think the speaker, the majority leader of the senate, they both have been very clear on that front. as you know, we have a diverse coalition in the house. we're a big tent with a number of very differing and robust views across the analytical spectrum. i am confident, jonathan, we will find a way because ultimately we're commit today delivering for the american people. i'm confident that will be the case. >> okay. but you and i both know the senate is an unpredictable -- predictively unpredictable entity. do you think that if the bipartisan infrastructure legislation is the only thing that comes out of the senate and
heads its way over to the house and nothing happens or is being slow rolled on the reconciliation bill, that members of the house should vote for that -- i'm sorry, the $1 trillion bipartisan bill? >> i would say, jonathan, i don't think that eventuality is ultimately going to come to pass. i think at the end of the day, the senate will pass a budget resolution for reconciliation bill that meets the moment. and, look, i've been very clear. many of my colleagues, as you know, jonathan, have been very clear. there are critical unmet priorities we have yet to address as part of the bipartisan infrastructure deal. that deal is certainly a good step. it's a step in the right direction. at the end of the day as we look to address the existential threat, we met in congress. denver metropolitan effort had the worst air quality because of western fires raging now, 107
fires across the united states, 2.1 million acres burned already. so we have to get serious about climate change. we do that in the reconciliation bill with investments in the climate -- for example, climate core program president biden has announced his support of. i think those priorities are critically important. so, again, i think that these bills are on parallel tracks and i am confident that both of them will get to the president's desk for his signature in short order. >> congressman neguse, as i said in the intro, you are a former impeachment manager. would love to get your reaction to the news that we're waking up to that former trump d.o.j. officials donohue and rosen, who was the former acting attorney general both who testified before the senate judiciary committee, donohue on friday, and rosen yesterday, rosen for seven hours. >> yeah, jonathan, i reviewed the same "the new york times" article that you did.
i think it's shocking. it's disturbing. and yet it's not all that surprising. i mean, given, as you know, what was revealed during the course of the impeachment trial back in february. we knew then that there were a number of actors within the -- excuse me, the trump administration that were working to essentially subvert the popular will of the electorate, and to overthrow the election, and to challenge the peaceful transfer of power that really has been the underpinning of our republic for the better part of the last 230 some odd years. i think that the investigation at the senate majority committee, the house reform committee, and of course the select committee, each of the work the committees are doing is important. i would also say the investigation that clearly the inspector general from the department of justice is critically important, and the revelations regarding mr. clark in particular should shock the conscience of each and every american. it's a reminder of the precipice
that we found ourselves on in the waning days of the trump presidency as he worked to try to undermine the peaceful transfer of power. and a reminder for all of us that we've got to be vigilant in making sure we create the necessary safeguards to prevent this from ever happening again. >> congressman neguse, real fast. you said you weren't surprised. as an impeachment manager, you were and remain privy to a whole lot of information that the rest of us regular folks don't have access to. so i'm wondering, is there information that you are just waiting to be publicly revealed so that you can talk about it, that you learned as a result of the impeachment investigation? >> well, what i would say, jonathan, i think we all are hoping that the o.i.g. and that the various committees of jurisdiction that i referenced are able to get sworn testimony under oath from some of these officials so that we can get to the bottom of what happened on january 6th. as you know, we were unable to
do that during the course of the impeachment trial, and i think it's why so much of the work that those committees are doing now is so critically important in terms of getting to the bottom of what happened. as senator blumenthal articulately put it, answer questions about the future of our country as a constitutional republic in light of the former president's perpetuation of the big lie, which by the way, jonathan, continues to metastasize to this day. >> congressman neguse from colorado, thank you for coming to "the sunday show." coming up, it's been one hill of a week for progressives. more on that next. scent set the mood. feel the difference with downy. voiceover: riders. wanderers on the road of life. the journey is why they ride. when the road is all you need, there is no destination.
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boy oh, boy, you guys are -- >> i'm happy for you. i'm happy for all of us. you should be so proud. >> i am. >> it's been a bitter/sweet week for progressive democrats netting a big though temporary win on tuesday when president biden extended the federal eviction moratorium after three days and nights of very public protests from missouri congresswoman corey bush. but the buzz soon faded as progressives suffered yet another high-profile loss to a more moderate democrat at the ballot box wednesday night, with establishment-backed democrat shantell brown beating out
bernie sanders' acolyte nina turner for ohio's 11th district.
joining me now, former adviser to the hillary clinton campaign, adrian elrod. and everybody knows who this man is, eugene daniels, political playbook, coauthor. thank you both for coming to "the sunday show." so i want to put up on the screen this quote from hakeem jeffries, member of the house leadership, democrat from the great state of new york, where he says the extreme left is obsessed with talking trash about mainstream democrats on twitter when the majority of the electorate constitute mainstream democrats at the polls. adrian, you are -- you work with democrats. you're with the democratic party. does he have a point? >> well, i think the point that he was making, jonathan, is that elections are not fought and won on twitter. that is just not where the majority of voters spend their
time. people like you and me spend a lot of time on
twitter, but that's not where the majority of the electorate gets their information. i think he was making the point you can make a lot of noise on twitter. you can make a lot of noise on social media. that is not necessarily going to influence the outcome of the election or even be indicative of where the election stands at any given time. >> so, eugene, in politico playbook you guys have this headline. progressives might be a problem for biden in the coming months. how so? >> well, after this week, you know, you talk about the ohio 11, that's one conversation. but the progressives in congress, after seeing what corey bush was able to do, what a.o.c. along with her was able to do, jones, got together and forced the administration to do something, they say that is something they've never done before. this is the biggest wins progressives in congress have had. they are behind the scenes having conversations about what's next, what does it look like for them to tackle student
debt relief, what does it look like for them to tackle all of the other issues that progressives care about? and the issue is, right, they've got this one win. that's one thing. nancy pelosi is probably going to do a good job of keeping them together on everything else. but with such a slim majority that progressives -- excuse me, democrats have in the house, this is something that the biden people and the house leadership should really take into account because if progressives are feeling themselves and they start to own their power, you have a situation that republicans went through with the house freedom caucus where they would say no, and walk away. that is something that some of these progressives behind the scenes are talking about. you have infrastructure, two infrastructure bills coming up. you talked with the congressman about. they have said progressives, we're not signing onto your bipartisan deal unless we get this reconciliation bill. there are some precarious things happening behind the scenes for those mainstream democrats, i guess you'd call it. >> okay. now, adrienne, i hear what
you're saying, eugene, but and progressives -- are they the ones who are making this demand? i seem to recall speaker pelosi being the first one out the gate saying, ain't no way i am voting on that bipartisan bill until the reconciliation bill comes over from the house. adrienne, you're a strategist. is that the smart thing to do, smart thing for the speaker to have placed the marker there, that she is not going to have her members -- any of her members take such a hard vote unless both those bills come over to the house? >> look, i am certainly not going to question or challenge anything that speaker pelosi, any of her decision making authority. i think it was smart. and there is no one, jonathan, no one out there who can balance the moderate wing of the party and the progressive wing of the party better than nancy pelosi. we just know that. but i also want to make a point. president biden has literally put forward the most progressive
agenda when it comes to the entire build back better agenda plan since f.d.r. child care, paid leave, climate change, all these issues that have to be addressesed, this is something he's been very focused on. he talked a lot about it during the campaign. i think we have to give him a lot of credit for putting forward a very progressive agenda that he's managed to bring a lot of progressives along the way with it. >> um-hmm. eugene, i want to play this, this sound from killer mike which prove to be consequential. have a listen, everyone. >> we were in south carolina in '16 and i saw the dnc try to sabotage their strongest candidate. what i realize when i saw people like clyburn, which i don't have a problem in south carolina for the good work he's done, but i think it's incredibly stupid to not cut a deal before you get someone a president, a federal
holiday -- >> you better talk about it. >> and that criticism is with love, because i'm still going to come to your state and i don't want state troopers to stop me. >> eugene, as we know, congressman clyburn, majority whip clyburn of south carolina ended up campaigning actively for shantell brown because, as he said, i was going to stay right here in south carolina minding my business until i got called stupid. how stupid was it of killer mike, but also the turner campaign to have that happen? >> yeah, i'm not going to call him unstupidable. what i will say is you have to be careful when you're trying to take over a party which is what progressives are trying to do, right. progressives are trying to take over a party they see that needs to move to the left in their words, right. so what that means is they have to work with people who have been doing it a long time. they have to work with these mainstream democrats to figure out how to do that, right.
when you look at the ways in which they have been able to move the party left, for sure the democratic party has moved to the left. but a lot of the things that they want, a lot of the things that they have been calling for, they have not really convinced the swath of the base of the democratic party, which is older black voters has continued to be older black voters for a very long time. so unless they convince older black voters to do the things they want to do, to say the things -- agree with the things progressives want, they're never going to be able to really take over the democratic party and that's something they've been having to deal with. they've had to -- and i've written stories about this over the last year, had to professionalize in a completely different way, activism, like corey bush, use activism to govern. there are things they have to do to convince black voters they are the pragmatic voters.
that's what they usually go with. if they are competitive, otherwise, not so much. >> eugene, i'm going to add another title to you. i'm calling you reverend eugene daniels, because that is exactly what people should keep in mind. until you convince older black voters that you're the way to go, ain't gonna get them. adrienne elrod, eugene daniels, thank you for coming to "the sunday show." coming up my one on one interview with u.n. ambassador linda thomas greenfield who led the united states delegation to close out the tokyo olympic games. don't go anywhere. ever notice how stiff clothes can feel rough on your skin? for softer clothes that are gentle on your skin, try downy free & gentle downy will soften your clothes without dyes or perfumes. the towel washed with downy is softer, and gentler on your skin. try downy free & gentle. when you're entertaining, you want to put out the best snacks that taste great, and come straight from the earth. and last time i checked, pretzels don't grow on trees.
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this past year has felt like a long, long norwegian winter. with dramatic results? but eventually, with spring comes rebirth. everything begins anew. and many of us realize a fundamental human need to connect with other like-minded people. welcome back to the world. viking. exploring the world in comfort... once again. this morning the summer olympics came to a close in tokyo with team usa bringing home 39 gold medals, more than any other country. although it may have been simone biles' bronze medal that got the most spotlight. representing the usa at the closing ceremonies was united
states ambassador to the united nations linda thomas greenfield, a decorated career diplomat and only the second black woman to hold the post. i sat down with ambassador thomas greenfield ahead of her trip to tokyo to talk about the olympics, the power of seeing a black woman stand up for herself and more. ambassador, welcome to "the sunday show." >> thank you very much. i'm delighted to be here. >> so, you are leading the u.s. delegation to tokyo for the closing ceremonies of the olympics. why is it important to make this trip? >> well, let me just say how proud i am that the president selected me to lead this trip to the closing ceremony. it is important that we be there for a number of reasons. one, president biden and the first lady wanted to make sure that we were there to cheer on the young people of america who are competing with such
tremendous pride and commitment and grit. they are flying the flag and showing the competitiveness that is so important to the united states, and we want to be there at the closing ceremony to let them know how proud we are as americans of what they have achieved. i will also be meeting with the refugee team. i've worked on refugee issues more than half of my career, and i was so proud when that team was established two years ago. so i'm going to have the opportunity to also cheer them on as they represent the world basically, because they are coming from countries where they have fled persecution, but yet it has not stopped them from participating. >> i was about to ask you, the refugee team, where do they come from? do you have any idea how many countries? you said they come from all over
the world. how many countries are represented within the refugee team? >> i don't know the exact answer to that. i know that there are a number of african countries on the team, including several from south sudan, a country that i have worked with and have been engaged with over the years. but i'm thinking that there are probably about 20 countries represented. >> so, ambassador, you mentioned a moment ago that you're going to tokyo to cheer on the young people, cheer on the young american athletes. if there's one young american athlete everyone's been talking about this entire olympic games, it's simone biles. i would love to get your thoughts on simone biles and what you think of her decisions that she made about not competing and picking and choosing when she was going to compete in these games. >> i am so proud of her.
i hope i have the opportunity to meet her and pat her on the back, and if possible even hug her. she is so strong. she represents the best that our country has to offer. i think it took tremendous courage for her to make the decisions that she made at the olympics. she made the best decision for her. she made the best decision for her team. and i think we should all pat her on the back and give her a high five as she moves on in her career. >> ambassador thomas greenfield, i'm also wondering, how do you relate personally to simone biles? you're in different spheres. she is an athlete. you are a diplomat. but you're both black women in rarified air. wondering your personal reflections on what she's been going through over these games.
>> she reflects, again, the best that america has to offer, but also the best of the african-american community in her field of expertise. and i am encouraged by her. i am given strength by seeing her actions and her behavior and the pride that she shows in her skills. i'm learning from her as well. i always tell young people, you never stop learning. and while i'm old enough to be her grandmother, she has taught me so much about what it means to be strong in the presence of adversity. >> and you know, ambassador, as i get older, i'm learning -- i am learning those same lessons as well. you know, earlier this week you spoke at the u.n. in favor of the creation of the permanent forum for people of african
descent. what is that and what's its purpose? >> it was a proud moment at the united nations for us to move forward on this resolution that establishes a forum for addressing issues of race across the globe. and the united states was very, very proud to join with other countries to support this resolution. it's going to give us a forum. it's going to give us a platform to address the issues of systemic racism that we have seen in almost every corner of the world. >> right, systemic racism for the viewers not just in the united states, but around the world. ambassador, in the time that we have left, i just want to ask you about haiti. you led the u.s. delegation to the funeral of this slain -- the assassinated president of haiti.
and at the time, gunfire broke out and you had to cut your trip short, one. how are you doing after that particular experience? and two, what does -- what did that tell you about the future stability of the caribbean nation? >> look, again, i was really delighted to represent the president and lead the presidential delegation to the funeral of the president. it was bipartisan. we had chairman meeks and representative thornton berry on the delegation. the purpose of the delegation was to send a message to the people of haiti that they have not been forgotten. that the united states has their back, and that we support their efforts to move toward a more stable country that will allow them to have elections and is
support for the election of their leaders in the future. what i saw was a tremendous amount of pain, tremendous amount of discontent by ordinary people who want to see their government deliver on their futures. and it highlighted for me the importance of us being there, and the importance of us continuing to engage with the people of haiti, with their leadership, urging and encouraging their leadership to make difficult choices, difficult decisions on moving forward. and also to highlight the fact that the united states has provided support in the investigations of the president's assassination. >> united states ambassador to the united nations linda thomas
greenfield, thank you very much for coming to "the sunday show." >> thank you, jonathan. the olympics closing ceremony will re-air tonight on nbc7:30 eastern time. up next in our on the run series, the rising star seeking to take on senator rand paul in kentucky. stay with us. stay with us millions of vulnerable americans struggle to get reliable transportation to their medical appointments. that's why i started medhaul. citi launched the impact fund to invest in both women and entrepreneurs of color like me, so i can realize my vision and give everything i've got to my company, and my community. i got you. for the love of people. for the love of community. for the love of progress. citi. what happens when we welcome change? we can make emergency medicine possible at 40,000 feet. instead of burning our past for power, we can harness the energy of the tiny electron.
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keep your downstairs dry with gold bond body powder. they called us a long shot. said the movement in kentucky was a long shot. man, we proved them wrong. >> if you think kentucky candidate charles booker looks familiar, it's because he does. booker narrowly lost the kentucky senate democratic primary to former fighter pilot amy mcgrath. she went on to be trounced by mitch mcconnell in the general election. as booker suits up for round two, the question remains the same. can a progressive bring voters to the polls in the blue grass state? joining me now is the person who is going to answer that question, former state representative and democratic candidate for the united states senate in
kentucky, charles booker. mr. booker, welcome to "the sunday show." >> good to be with you.
>> all right. so, you ran -- looking here at my thing -- in the senate primary last year, if memory serves, against amy mcgrath. you just barely missed winning the nomination. so do you think that -- this go around with you as the senate candidate that you are the one, you're not running against mitch mcconnell, that was amy mcgrath, you think overcan overtake rand paul this go around? >> we can. and, you know, what we showed in the last cycle, against one of the most well funded senate campaigns in history is when you listen to the people, when you organize and meet people where they are, they can inspire a movement anywhere, even in kentucky. and the issues that we were lifting up ending generational poverty, making
sure everyone can live a gainful life, those issues are bigger than mitch mcconnell and kentucky has two
uniquely terrible senators and we need leadership at the federal level that will care about us and fight for us. i'm going to get rand paul out of there and then we're going to do the deeper work of transforming our future. >> let me get your reaction. as you notice in the setup, to this conversation, it is, you know, moderates and establishment versus progressives. that was the case in your race last go around against amy mcgrath for the democratic nomination. i'm wondering, are we here, particularly in washington, are we making too much of the tension between the moderate wing of the democratic party and the progressive wing of the democratic party? >> we are. i understand the division, and i understand the need to focus on these points of contention, but the truth of the matter is we have so much more in common than we do otherwise, that if we leaned into those common bonds, we can build a new coalition.
i talk about issues not because they're progressive or whatever label folks want to prescribe to them, i don't want anyone to have to do that, i don't care what you call that, when you talk to people across kentucky, they agree, no one should have to do that. everyone should have quality healthcare. so i want to show and tell the story of how we build new coalitions so that we cannot only get rid of terrible politicians, but we can transform our politics and transform our future. that's what we're going to do. >> you just mentioned hood to the holler, which is actually the name of an advocacy group that you established. what is it, exactly? >> began as a rallying cry. it was a way of showing and telling the story about folks from communities that seem to be completely disconnected, standing together in a common pursuit for a better future. i'm from the hood in west end of louisville, and i was a director
of fish and wildlife, i worked in the state legislature. when i travel this commonwealth, walk in the rooms, even when i was the only person that looked like me, when we talked about issues, we were fighting some of the same battles. i launched this organization and i am pushing this message of how we can build new coalitions that bring black, white and brown people together so that we can deal with structure inequity, and build new leaders for the future. i'm pushing that in my campaign because that's the key to our future. i think everybody to go to charlesbooker.org and help us tell that story. let's invest in people and transform our politics. >> mr. booker, you saved me my final question. what is your website. you just said it. thank you for coming to "the sunday show." good luck. coming up in the next hour, the light at the end of the covid tunnel seems to be getting smaller as southern states hit record numbers of infections and
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his police state friends to your front door to knock on the door. yeah, what they don't know is that in the south, we all love our second amendment rights. and we're not big on strangers showing up on our front door, are we? >> welcome back to "the sunday show." i'm jonathan capehart. while marjorie taylor greene is out there inresponsibly instilling pride in the unvaccinated, the place where she made the remarks, alabama, has covid cases up 174% in the last 14 days. and as if that weren't bad enough, the state tossed more than 65,000 expired doses of the vaccines last week, due to low demand, according to a state health officer. and here's the kicker. seven states account for half of the cases in the country, and alabama is one of them. in the last week, hospitalization admissions nationwide have risen 45% and
some states with low vaccination rates are running out of icu beds. while more people are starting to get the first jab, rhetoric like greene's could be costing lives. joining me now, chief medical officer at our lady of the lake medical center, dr. catherine o'neil. msnbc medical contributor, dr. uche blackstock. and vice provost of global initiatives, dr. ezekiel emanuel, the author of "which country has the world's best healthcare." this is an all doctor panel. i'm very excited to have you all here. thank you very much. dr. o'neil, you and i met earlier last week when i interviewed you on the last word. and i'm going to ask all of you, we can't start this conversation off without reacting to marjorie taylor greene and what she told the people of alabama. dr. o'neil, as a doctor in louisiana, also dealing with a surge in covid cases, your
reaction to what she had to say. >> thank you for having me today. honestly, my first react is i'm so glad i'm not a politician and i'm a physician, i think i chose the right career after hearing that. i hope most people are getting their information and their advice from their physicians, from their local public health authority, because i know that in alabama vaccinations are increasing as they are in louisiana, as we see this surge and see our loved ones affected and see our healthcare safety network crippling. i think the people are making the right decision and continuing to listen to the authorities on this disease. >> dr. blackstock, when you have politicians like marjorie taylor greene saying those things, you know, to my mind, i think it is very harmful that it gives people permission to not do the right thing on behalf of public health. am i giving marjorie taylor greene too much credit? >> no, i don't think you're giving her enough credit. i think her messaging is
incredibly, as you said, irresponsible, also dangerous. we're seeing misinformation is killing -- is killing people. since the beginning of the pandemic, public health messaging has been undermined and what makes it even more egregious, it is being undermined by public officials. even her characterization of the biden administration, that was incredibly irresponsible. they're urging local community based organizations to go door to door. they're not strangers. they're people embedded in the community. the messaging is key and her messaging is dangerous and killing people. >> dr. emanuel, i also want to get your thoughts on marjorie taylor greene. before you do that, have a listen to florida governor ron desantis in his -- what he had to say about the rising cases, covid cases, in his state, and
youth. >> the best defenses we have are the combination of the natural immunity that has been built up, and our seniors' first vaccination efforts. that's why you have such a steep decline in mortality, year over year. and, look, at the end of the day, would i rather have 5,000 cases amongst 20-year-olds or 500 cases among seniors? i would rather have the younger. because of the effect that it has. >> i'm sorry, dr. emanuel, to read it, and then to hear him say that, it's enraging. >> well, again, it is a person who isn't very good at calculating both marjorie taylor greene and governor desantis are not very clear about the facts. and about what is happening. it's -- it is the case that seniors are much more vulnerable but this is not an either/or
choice. we have more than enough vaccine. everyone needs to be vaccinated. we need to drive cases down so we don't have breakthrough infections and we don't, god forbid, develop another variant that is a threat. and for marjorie taylor greene, i don't understand where she comes from. i thought the south was famous for its hospitality. not its antagonism and hostility to people. hostility, brandishing a gun to someone who comes to your door, that's not the south i grew up with. and i think that people just don't recognize that. this fanning of flames, you know, this isn't about interests. if you're interested in your own self-preservation, the vaccine is the way you have to go. this is clearly become a tribal identification issue. i'm not vaccinated, i'm part of this group. that might unfortunately kill you. and that is not a good place to be. and as i think was said, you
know, marjorie greene and governor desantis, they really do have people's deaths on their hands because of the way they have rolled this out, more people have died because of their policies, not masking, not vaccinating, and urging people not to get vaccinated. >> you know, dr. o'neal, the nbc affiliate wdsu had a story about kids in louisiana. the headline, more than 3,000 louisiana children test positive for covid-19 in just four days. dr. o'neal, is there any -- is it -- is it too late for your state to get a handle on, get control over the pandemic as it is raging? >> never too late. and that's what we spent last week talking about is, you know if you get vaccinated today, you have protection at least some
antibody protection in 10 to 14 days and that's why we clearly saw a split in studies of those people who continue to be infected and those who did not. and so every day that we continue to vaccinate, every day that we continue to appeal to parents with good data on how safe this vaccine is for teenage kids, we get closer and closer to the start of the school year and starting the school year safely. our message today is mask because we have a mask mandate in the state and help slow down the surge and to vaccinate at the same time to decrease those diagnoses and admissions to the children's hospital that we're seeing today. >> dr. blackstock, for those who are watching, who might be vaccine hesitant or saying that they're still taking a wait and see attitude or those vaccinated but are still desperately trying to convince friends and loved ones to get vaccinated, what would you say to those people, the ones who are still hesitant? to convince them to get the vaccine? >> i would say that i understand
some of their concerns. i would say also that they need to speak to their medical professional, their physicians, their nurse practitioners, their physician assistants, anyone in their life who has the training and education to explain what is going on. i think often people are getting information from their hairstylists or their best friend who doesn't have, you know, a medical or public health background. i would say there is urgency now that is very unique, that we have this delta variant that is highly transmissible, and that their lives are at risk and that they should seriously consider getting the vaccine, but that i understand that, you know, education and outreach around the vaccine is very important. we still have access barriers that are present. people still don't have paid sick leave, especially low wage workers. we have to make sure we're considering all of that and we're decreasing all the barriers and answering all the questions people have about this vaccine, but also to emphasize
the point that the vaccine is not just to protect them, put to protect their communities. everyone around them as well. >> dr. emanuel, i want to put this really stunning map that was on the front page of usa today with the big bold headline there, we are failing one another and that map shows just the -- see the swath of red there, in talking about the south. but that's covid. in the united states. and i'm just wondering, you know, do you think the biden administration is doing everything that it can to get a handle on the pandemic, and do you think the cdc and its changing, you know, mask up, don't mask up, mask up, the changing directives that that's not helping matters? >> well, i do think the cdc could be a lot clearer. i do think that they have issued
confusing information. i do think the biden administration has done a remarkable job. i mean, it is true there are a few problems, but in general you can walk into most pharmacies, cvs, walmart, walgreens and many others and get a vaccine. they're free. you're not paying anything for the vaccine itself. it doesn't -- it is one of the safest vaccines ever made. we have given it to over 165 million people in the united states, and billions of doses around the world, you're not going to find a much safer vaccine ever. most of the myths, causes infertility or gets incorporated into your dna, all false. before, you know, in the interim, between vaccination and what dr. o'neal said about getting protection at 10 to 14 days, you got to wear a mask, not just any mask, a good mask. wear it indoors and if you're outdoors in a crowd, at a concert, at a farmer's market, at a state fair, wear a good
mask and n-95 mask. you can get one made in america, they're readily available. so i think those are the recommendations that really matter and as was said, protect yourself, protect your family, protect your community. surely you care about all of those groups. >> dr. ezekiel emanuel, dr. uche blackstock, dr. o'neal, thank you for coming to "the sunday show." coming up, andrew cuomo faces impeachment after a damning report on sexual harassment allegations against him. up next, an exclusive interview with the leader of time's up and how she ended up in the ag's report. don't miss it. ag's report don't miss it. we did it again.
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the client did come in, she filed a report. we have a lot of fact finding to do. we have a lot of interviews to do and, you know what, i'm not going to rush it because of who he is and i'm not going to delay it because of who he is. we're going to conduct a very thorough investigation. and when the data and the facts are compiled, we'll make a decision at that point. >> new york governor andrew cuomo's legal qu he woulds may t be beginning. a woman filed a criminal complaint against him this week in albany.
the new york attorney general's office says it will turn over related evidence from its independent investigation of the governor, which found that cuomo had sexually harassed 11 women. he has not been charged with any crime and denies inappropriate conduct. but cuomo is digging in his heels at the governor's mansion, despite evaporating support. a recent poll found that 70% of new yorkers think he should resign. and 55% say he should be charged with a crime. the new york state assembly has almost wrapped up its impeachment investigation into the governor and has given him until next week to respond with additional evidence. joining me now for an exclusive interview, tina chen, president and ceo of time's up. thank you very much for coming to "the sunday show." we have to deal with the elephant in the room, in the attorney general's report, i believe on page 108, i'll put up some of the language here, they talk about how the governor
directed an aide to seek the input from some of the folks on the team as it says. and as we have here on the screen, according to that aide, miss kaplan read the letter to the head of the advocacy group and both suggested the letter was fine. miss derosa reported back to the governor that they thought the letter was okay with some changes, as did mr. cohen, but everyone else thought it was a bad idea. miss boylan is the one who has spoke out publicly against the governor. the letter is a letter, an op-ed, a proposed op-ed that didn't go anywhere. but the allegation is that it was written to discredit her, to undermine her credibility. please explain your role in this
as described in the report. >> well, let me start by acknowledging actually, jonathan, i want to acknowledge the survivors who came forward because this story should be about them and about the governor and the fact that we're talking about time's up is yet another effort to distract from the governor. but i'm happy to answer the question. we started working with governor cuomo back in 2019 to push through a really important new york safety agenda that did things like lowering the standard for defining sexual harassment under new york law, very statute he's being held to now, expanding the statute of limitations for rape and sexual assault when new york had one of the shortest statutes of limitations in the country. and we worked with the governor, that's how actually we have a working relationship in that moment with him to get that passed and may change for thousands of women. so then, you know, when the
first allegation came up, you kno -- about the, you know, this letter, and i absolutely categorically deny, there was nothing i said that would have been about going after survivors. in fact, absolutely have always consistently -- cannot go after survivors in this moment. and everything we do to work with powerful people is to make change that will help survivors, that will help women in the workplace. and now it's come out from the reporting, jonathan, that we were getting used. we were being used by the governor's office, the campaign, going back to that moment as cover. and i am angry that that's what happens when we try to make change with someone and they turn around and use us.
>> i have to ask you particularly about the relationship between roberta kaplan and miss derosa because as it points out in the attorney general's report that kaplan is the lawyer for derosa, so do you think -- should roberta kaplan step away from time's up. do you have any -- do you feel uncomfortable about that, the link between the two, especially now that it's involving these 11 allegations against the governor. >> well, i'm not going to speak for robbie kaplan and those events will unfold. the person who we should talk about who should resign is andrew cuomo. this is the distraction that is going on, part of a pattern i believe has been going on from this governor, from the beginning. which is to look for cover from people like us, and distract now
by using us as a distraction from the moment, because the resignation we should be focusing on is the resignation of andrew cuomo. >> we have -- don't have enough time to play this sound from the governor's attorney yesterday on cnn. but basically she's denying the fact the governor is trying to blame the victims and is saying that the governor -- that the attorney general's report is shoddy, it is biased, it omits evidence. clearly the governor again, still, pushing back against the report. also pushing back against the victims. just a final word from you about your personal -- your personal feelings about being mixed up in all of this. >> look this is part of, jonathan, what i call the predator's playbook. going back to the moment when he did things like work for change for lgbtq rights, for women, for -- to combat sexual
harassment and yet hid his very own actions. from all of us. until the attorney general's report has laid this bare and the courageous survivors came forward to speak out. that is part of the predator's playbook. he's playing out the playbook right now too, to distract, to deny, to try to undermine and gas light the incredibly thorough investigation of the attorney general, you know, laying out facts. 179 witnesses, 74,000 pieces of paper, clear opportunity for the governor to put forward his information, his evidence to the attorney general. this was an incredibly thorough investigation, the kind of investigations we want to see when these complaints come forward and i commend the attorney general for doing that, for acting on it quickly and now accountability has to take place. >> last question, tina, and that is this, if you had to do it all over again, would you have pushed back more forcefully on
what the governor was trying to do as it relates to that letter? >> look, had i known, jonathan, this was part of some campaign, to go after, you know, survivors, had i known this was a letter not written by women in his office, who were trying to say that this was their experience working in the office, but written apparently by the governor himself, absolutely -- to have a response that actually would be better for survivors, what i always do in these situations, that is sort of the touchstone and the core of who i was and why time's up was founded and what we want to do. we also walk this, you know, this narrow foot path, jonathan, of also trying to work with people to get things done, which is what we did with him in the first instance, right? and now to have him turn on us,
he's a problem. >> with that, tina tcien, president and ceo of time's up, we're way over time. thank you so much. i really appreciate your coming to "the sunday show." it is sunday. we'll talk about the infrastructure bill and a whole lot more next. bout the infrastructure bill and a whole lot more next. ♪ when technology is easier to use... ♪ barriers don't stand a chance. ♪ that's why we'll stop at nothing to deliver our technology as-a-service. ♪ to deliver our technology as-a-service. when our daughter and her kids moved in with us... our bargain detergent couldn't keep up. turns out it's mostly water. so, we switched back to tide. one wash, stains are gone. [daughter] slurping
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the senate is on the verge of doing something unthinkable. in half an hour they're set to continue hammering out the details of the trill dollar bipartisan dealment here with the latest from capitol hill is msnbc political correspondent ali vitali. >> you say they're getting things done, that's true, but they're getting them done soly. you're no stranger to the way this building works. they can get things done but they move at an incremental pace. the hope for senators is they could go a little bit faster on
this with all 100 senators coming together and making an agreement with how they deal with amendments. that would have sped up the process but that's not where we're at. at least one senator right now, senator bill hagerty objecting to that saying he's not going to agree to a shortened amendment process, that he wants this to go through something called regular order. and that's where we start this sunday. in half an hour, we're going to see the senate come back in session, we're likely at that point to hear from senate majority leader chuck schumer on what the road ahead looks like. looking at the timing, counting based on the number of hours of debate they're going to have to go through if this goes through regular order, it puts later tonight at around 8:00 p.m. as the next time that we're going to see them go through some kind of procedural vote on this. from there, a few more procedural steps and puts this bill's passage or not, the vote, the final vote sometime on tuesday the caveat that exists all the time in the senate, at any point this process can get
shorter if all 100 senators come together to decide it should get shorter. right now, though, that's not where we're at. despite the fact that when i was leaving here last night, a lot of tension among bipartisan groups of senators here who just want to see this get done because the way one of them put it to me was, the writing is on the wall, it is just a question of if we vote on this bipartisan package sooner or later. jonathan? >> as i said earlier, the senate is predictably unpredictable, thank you very much. now for more on what's ahead in the senate, on infrastructure, voting rights and more, i'm joined by john bresnahan and jacqueline alamane, author of "the power-up" newsletter. thank you very much. as ali reported, we're going to be hearing from senate majority leader chuck schumer about what the road ahead looks like. you guys are in the business of telling us what's going to happen before it happens. so what's going to happen? what is he going to tell us?
what does the road ahead look like? >> they're going to keep working. that's what they're going to tell you. listen, we talked to hagerty yesterday, senator hagerty from tennessee is a freshman, he didn't want to -- you can weigh what is called post closure time technically, he didn't want to wave that. he didn't want to speed up thing, he blocked an agreement on thursday night. he didn't want to do anything yesterday on it. we'll have to see what he does today. because there is going to be another vote tonight and then there will be another 30 hours technically to take us to 2:00 a.m. on tuesday and then there will be more votes, so, you know, as ali said this could go tuesday this could go tonight, it could go anytime -- it is going to pass. the only question is when it's going to pass. >> right, and so i was just sitting here wondering, so, if senator hagerty knows this thing
is going to pass and he wants to go back to this mythical land called regular order why go through this? why not get out the way, let it happen, and get back to your district and recess? >> yeah, his argument is this is far too much to do that, that lawmakers should take the time to parse through this 2700 pages, go through all amendments and make sure that everyone is really getting what they want. but, you know, there are a couple of amendments that are currently under contention and actively being debated right now. few things holding things up. that's what senators are going to be doing today, debating more amendments. one specifically that i have dived into with my colleagues on cryptocurrency, a fascinating and sort of poetic that cryptocurrency is one of the things holding up this trillion dollar bill, but basically you have had senators from
pennsylvania, wyoming, and oregon who have become these unlikely heroes of the cryptocurrency industry, trying to narrow the language that rob portman, kristen cinema and mark warner and the white house have backed. this has blown up into this bigger regulatory fight, not just about the revenue that this tax provision that is going to provide some revenue to pay for this package is going to provide, but about the authorities at the treasury department are fighting for. that i think is an interesting microcosm in telling the story of some of these provisions and this legislation that might potentially be passed is going to have long-term implications for various industries, including the cryptocurrency industry. >> you know, i just want the thing to get voted on. just so we can see what is in it. something this big, there is a
lot of stuff in it that, maybe the two of you know, because you report on this stuff, but i won't go down that rabbit hole. we just had senators merkley and padilla on, they're both involved in the sort of senate working group on a new voting rights bill, i think merkley called it manchin 2.0 using his compromise legislation as the foundation for this new framework. what i couldn't quite understand, though senator padilla said, we're going to see language this week and senator merkley said, but it's not going to be voted on probably until sometime in the fall. do you have any insight into what's going on, on that front? >> yeah, they're still trying to work this out with the house. this -- the issue here, of course, is the senate filibuster. and senator merkley worked a lot
on that issue. in particular, but manchin has not willing to -- was not willing to support this initial version of s-1, the for the people act, and now they're trying to narrow it, a voting rights bill. this is in response to these moves by republican states, red states, after the election to narrow voting rights or make it harder to vote, we have seen it in florida, we have seen it in georgia, trying to get it done in texas. there is a lot of urgency among democrats to do this, they're worried about what happens in 2022, 2024. but it's not likely to come up until september, there is too much going on, they're going to try to do this infrastructure bill that you're talking about, do a budget resolution to put together a huge reconciliation package, which is critical, to president biden's agenda, critical to 2020 for democrats, so this is not likely vote on
because the senate is trying to get out for august. >> jackie, last question to you, as he was talking, just thought of that, when he said this huge reconciliation package, one thing reported on last week was the possibility of the debt ceiling increase being latched on to this. do you have any reporting on that, or was that a floater out there, to see how much attention it would get and there is no way that's going to happen? >> no, that's a threat that we heard mitch mcconnell say to democrats yesterday -- last week. that is just one of the multiple problems that democrats are facing when it comes to reconciliation package. it is, first of all, i think we have been paying so much attention to the bipartisan infrastructure package that we sort of lost track of the fact that senate leadership has been trying to outline the conforce of the reconciliation bill
because there might be a problem with the bipartisan infrastructure package if they don't get it done because house speaker nancy pelosi promised to pass these together simultaneously. and there is already pressure from moderate democrats in the house trying to push her to get this done alone to strike while the iron's hot, and i think the concern there is that the increasingly influential progressive caucus which we saw had a really big win last week might try to blow everything up. anyways, the debt ceiling and the progressive caucus i think both proved both might be two problems in inside of democratic leadership sides here, but we have to just find the waiting game right now, see what happens. >> what i'm going to do is have you all back after labor day when it becomes more clear what's going to happen with the
debt ceiling because it is nerdy, but it is fascinating what craziness we're about to get into. thank you both very much for coming to "the sunday show." my panel and i sound off to the other sunday shows. stay with us. ound off to the other sunday shows stay with us water? why?! ahhhh! incoming! ahhhahh! i'm saved! water tastes like, water. so we fixed it. mio. healthy habits come in all sizes. like little walks. and, getting screened for colon cancer. that's big because when caught in early stages, it's more treatable. hey, cologuard! hi. i'm noninvasive and i detect altered dna in your stool to find 92% of colon cancers, even in early stages. early stages! yep, it's for people 45 plus at average risk for colon cancer, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your provider if cologuard is right for you.
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subway® has so much new it didn't fit in our last ad. like the new artisan italian and hearty multigrain bread. it's the eat fresh refresh™ at subway®. it's so much new there's no time for serena! wait, what?! sorry, we don't even have time to say they were created by world class bakers! oh, guess we did! seriously?! my bad. nancy pelosi has an extraordinary challenge, four vote margin. that isn't much when you really sit down and count votes. i don't want to really project a strategy. i want her to do it. she's as accomplished as they come. i can see people want to see the infrastructure bill passed with no strings attached. she has to hold not just enough votes for the infrastructure bill but the follow on resolution. i give her all the flexibility she needs to reach that goal. >> dick durbin this morning on speaker pelosi's razor thin
margin in the house to pass the bipartisan infrastructure bill currently advancing through the senate as some moderate house democrats urge the speaker to hold a vote on that bill immediately without waiting for the democrats only bill that progressives say is essential to their votes. joining me now are joan walsh, national affairs correspondent for the nation, michael steele, former rnc chairman and msnbc columnist, and maria theresa kumar, president and ceo of voto latino. thank you very much for being here. joan, so house moderates basically demanding that there be a vote on the bipartisan infrastructure only -- infrastructure bill. kind of goes counter to what speaker pelosi said from the very beginning, which is don't send one over without the other. i'm not voting -- we're not
splitting these up. we need to vote on both. do you think at some point the speaker will have to relent? >> you know, if senator durbin can punt on this one and say i'll wait and see what nancy pelosi does because second guessing her is a bad bet, i think i'm going there. but, you know, jonathan, you pointed this out before, she did set this up, if they had to go together. as reaching out to her progressive side. you know there is pressure. there is no doubt pressure. and if there is a way to get the bipartisan bill across and let some of the progressives fall off, in protest, that might be what she does. i don't know. it is very tough for her. >> maria teresa, what do you think? >> i think the human infrastructure bill is going to be difficult if some of these elements are not included. i'm thinking of the child care provisions, the immigration pathway to citizenship provisions, because these are
two constituencies that democrats need to come out to vote. the latinos who voted for president biden and for the congress and for the senate, and the mothers who want to get back to work. one of the things we know, jonathan, is if you can allow for child care, there are 2 million american women waiting in the wings who simply can't cut back. you want to get your community revving, get them back to work. that's what folks are talking about. it is not enough to build a bridge if no one can drive on it. >> chairman steele, listening to what senator durbin had to say about nancy pelosi reminded me of a truism you told me on my podcast a few years ago, quote, trust nancy. so i -- those are words to live by. i want to play something else that senator durbin said on cnn. have a listen and i'll ask you about it on the other side. >> when you were listening to that testimony yesterday, what
was the most shocking to you? >> just how directly personally involved the president was, the pressure he was putting on jeffrey rosen. it was real. very real. and it was very specific. this president is not subtle when he wants something. the former president is not subtle when he wants something. i think it is a good thing for america that we had a person like rosen in that position who withstood the pressure. >> and we're talking about jeffrey rosen who testified for seven hours yesterday before the senate judiciary committee. chairman steele, your reaction to this news that the senate judiciary committee, despite what's going on with the infrastructure bill, they're sitting there taking testimony from former trump doj officials who were pressured by the president -- the then president. >> yeah, i let them do their work. and let them do it without the glitz and glam and the
spotlight. they will uncover a lot and because there is a lot there to uncover. and what senator durbin and others know are now beginning to see is that the president has always been directly involved. we heard this. this sunday be a surprise here, the degree to which donald trump controls and manages everything around him. nothing happens without his approval. and that was a big part of the tensions particularly in the last year of this campaign, inside the white house, because the president was so intimately involved trying to direct these things. more of that information is going to get out and the more of it that gets out, the greater exposure the president is going to have in other areas. so let the investigations continue, we don't need that -- to have a spotlight on them. let them do their work. it is important work what they're doing right now. >> we have got two minutes left. i do want to get joan and maria
teresa to get your thoughts on this testimony from rosen. joan, you go first. >> i think it is big news. i think it has been trickling out all week. we learned the length to which the president and deputy ag clark, his mignon, went to try to specifically focus in on georgia. and enact an attempted coup basically. and the extent to which deputy attorney general or acting attorney general rosen pushed back. we need to know much more. and i guess, you know, i'm torn about michael's, it needs to be out of the spotlight. that's true as long as it gets into the spotlight at some point in the very near future because we really need the nation to understand exactly how close we came to losing our democracy. this can't be just something that is known and whispered out in the beltway. >> maria teresa, last word to you. >> i think that the more transparency we have, the american people can recognize the big lie was just that.
and the president was directly involved in it. the more that we can have and preserve the -- this information from a civil servant who says i'm here to protect our democracy, the stronger we will be when the next time donald trump speaks. it was clear that is all about his own political expediency. he's confirming what many of us behind closed doors felt and it is important for us to shed light. it has to be in the spotlight. there is going to be -- one person said this and he said this. no, the more we have clarity, the stronger we can say what is at stake in our democracy and the more we can ensure that we are retro fitting our electoral processes for the next time around. >> i agree that, you know, this -- there should be a spotlight, but as long as folks are coming forward, and testifying and not being blocked by the former president, the better off we will be as a country. joan walsh, michael steele, maria teresa kumar, thank you so
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look at this haunting picture. taken on the west front of the capitol on january 6th. that's michael finnen, swabbed by a mob of terrorists. he was mauled, tased so many times he had a heart attack. he said he heard the terrorists attacking him say kill him with his own gun. the father of three believes he was saved from being murdered after he pleaded i've got kids. the chaotic scene as revealed by his own body camera and as
described in molly ball's fantastic profile of finnen in "time" magazine this week is horrific. not only for its violence, but what that violence signified. american democracy was on the brink, but most ironic and jarring in this photo is the flag fluttering above finnen. the one with the black and white stripes and thin blue line. according to the marshall project, those who fly the flag have said it stands for solidarity and professional pride within a dangerous, difficult profession and a solemn tribute to fallen officers. and yet, there it is. the pro police thin blue line flag being used as a weapon against the police, against finnen. that one photo encapsulates the outrage i feel at these self-proclaimed pro police patriots, though these armchair leos, law enforcement officers who were just fine with cops and riot gear brandishing military
grade weapons as they quashed the peaceful protests of black lives matter demonstrators across the country. and they're often the same people breaing against the slogan defund the police, without either bothering to attempt to understand what those words actually mean. finnen captured perfectly the hypocrisy of it all in his "time" magazine interview. he said the few republican members of congress who would meet with him would use their support of law enforcement during blm protests last year as a shield against his criticism that they were refusing to stand by police after the savage attacks they suffered on january 6th. you guys don't see to have a problem when we're kicking the s out of black people, he recalls saying, but when we're kicking the s out of white people, uh-oh, that's an issue. and that's coming from a self-described redneck who voted for trump. fanone says the horror he
endured opens his eyes to the truth, and the truth is this. republicans and conservatives who howl about law and order never meant it as a statement of universal principle. it was law and order for the black and the brown, the other. get in the way of their divine right to riot and act a fool, to push the prerogatives of an aggrieved and shrinking white majority, or to overthrow the government and the message appears to be you get what's coming to you. officer fanone and the other men and women who protected the capitol on january 6th deserve so much better. in a rose garden ceremony on thursday, president biden signed into law the bill awarding the congressional gold medal to the officers who not only defended the capitol, but also defended democracy. vice president harris said it best. >> these officers are heroes.
and these officers are patriots. and they deserve today and every day this honor. >> police aren't perfect. and because they wield the power of life and death with the backing of the state, we have every right to hold them to a higher standard and to demand that they be held accountable when they get it tragically wrong. but that doesn't make me blind to their importance or their countless acts of heroism. metropolitan police officers michael fanone, thank you for your commitment to ensuring that america knows the truth of what happened on january 6th, to the family of brian sicknick who died the day after the january 6th insurrection, and to the
families of capitol police officer howard leak liebengood and deputy hashida, the nation griefs with you and will never forget their heroism. anyone unwilling to recognize their valor is delusional. anyone willing to pretend that january 6th was anything but an attempt to overthrow the government is deplorable. i'm jonathan capehart, this has been "the sunday show." capehar been "the sunday show. breyers is always so delicious... i can tell that they used your milk, matilda. great job! moo you're welcome. breyers natural vanilla is made with 100% grade a milk and cream and only sustainably farmed vanilla. better starts with breyers. ♪ ♪
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♪ xfinity is here to inspire your biggest dreams ♪ good day, everybody. from msnbc world headquarters in new york, it is high noon in the east, 9:00 out west. welcome to "alex wit reporlex w" disturbing new numbers emerging. the u.s. is now averaging more than 100,000 new infects daily. a level we haven't seen since november of last year. all 50 states are seeing increases in new cases. more than half are experiencing at least a 100% increase in infections in the past two weeks. today dr. anthony fauci warning the u.s. could see new cases reach 200,000 a day by next