tv MTP Daily MSNBC August 19, 2021 10:00am-11:00am PDT
can fix it. and thanks to you, amy stoddard. been quite a day. the standoff continues on capitol hill. capitol police, fbi, atf, d.c. police are trying to negotiate with one individual, a man from north carolina in a pickup truck. they haven't seen evidence of propane explosives he claims he has but can't see inside the cab of the truck, and he is communicating slowly with them on a white board live on facebook. that's a tense situation on capitol hill. more coming up with chuck todd up next with "mtp daily" now. thank you, andrea, if it is thursday, just what andrea was summing up there, an active bomb threat, just outside the u.s. capitol. nearby buildings have been evacuated. metro police stopped a suspicious vehicle. the driver says he has
explosives and as you heard, negotiations continue. plus, the rush to evacuate thousands of americans from afghanistan picks up pace, president biden now says the chaos there was inevitable. contradicting what he said just weeks ago. former cia director and retired u.s. army general david petraeus joins me just ahead. later, the white house threatening legal action against states like texas, florida, and arizona as republican governors stand firm trying to block masks in schools. welcome to "mtp daily." i am chuck todd. breaking news here in the city, rattled place as it is, hasn't been that long since january 6th, the u.s. capitol police, federal law enforcement
are investigating an active bomb threat, outside library of congress, across from the u.s. capitol complex. here is the captain police chief with details last hour. >> around 9:15 this morning a man in a black pickup truck drove on the sidewalk in front of the library of congress, near 1st and independence southeast. we responded to a disturbance call. driver of the truck told the responding officer on the scene he had a bomb and what appeared the officer said appeared to be a detonator in his hand. >> evacuations were ordered for several buildings, including library of congress, can none house office baghdad, d.c. police are asking some residents who live nearby to evacuate the area on east capitol, another block away. a slew of brown stones. the house and senate are in recess, far fewer people in the
capitol complex than usual. capitol police ask all staff to avoid the area now. the police chief manger said they're in contact with the man in the truck and have a possible name and identity. fbi and atf are assisting capitol police, and officials say it could end up extending some time. at the white house, they're monitoring the situation and receiving updates from law enforcement. let's see what we are learning here. i have our justice correspondent pete williams, garrett haake is at the scene, we have former atf special agent jim cavanaugh, and assistant director with me. let's start at the scene. what do you see, garrett, is there any indication of how much law enforcement and the suspect are communicating? >> reporter: well, chuck, there's a huge law enforcement presence here around the capitol area and they've cleared a wide perimeter going several blocks into the surrounding neighborhood, particularly here
on the southeast side. the house side of the capitol where all this is happening. i'm about two blocks away. if i could walk through that gray building, i would be next to the suspect's truck. i can't see it from here, some of our colleagues inside the complex can see it from their windows. you have cannon house office building cleared, some other house buildings cleared related to library of congress. the good news, if there is any, this is being recess, a city concerned with resurgence of delta variant, there are very few people working inside any of the buildings today. so they've all been kept back. we are in wait and see posture with capitol police, metro police, and federal agencies all responding and freezing the neighborhood in place for the last several hours. >> pete williams, what do we
know right now and are we confident that this individual is acting alone, that he has no help? >> reporter: that would appear to be the case, chuck. number one, he wasn't stopped by police. he stopped by driving up on the sidewalk of the library of congress. apparently trying to attract attention, knowing he would get a law enforcement response. secondly, he claims to have a bomb but authorities have not seen anything that looks like a bomb, so they don't know. it is entirely based on his claim he has explosive materials. they have to take it as though it is the real thing, that's why you're seeing an understandably massive response. number three, important to point out as the police chief said, he did not claim he had a detonator in his hand. he said he had a bomb. the policeman that came up to the vehicle thought what was in the man's hand could have been a detonator.
we know that he did have a cell phone with him and that for a time today he was actually broadcasting live on facebook talking about his concerns, his anti-government rhetoric, according to people that have seen this. that feed has been taken down now by facebook. but for a time, that was one of the complicating factors of negotiating with him. second is that he was writing messages to the police on a dry erase board that was in his vehicle. one of the wipe boards you write on with a special marker, wipe it off and start over. that made it difficult, too. our understanding is that the authorities are now going to send in a robot with telephone. he has his own, it will be a dedicated one they can talk to directly to move this along. there are negotiators, bomb technicians from the fbi, bomb techs from atf, capitol police,
you're seeing folks evacuated from library of congress building, and the house office building. it is a tense situation, nobody knows for sure he has explosives but you have to take it seriously. >> jim cavanaugh, you dealt with situations, this is probably eery the way it is being described. clearly an intentional act, jim. clearly somebody who wants this kind of attention. what are your former colleagues doing with him now? >> dealing with people with bombs strapped on them, dealing with government fanatics for 40 years, all kinds of bombs. what they're trying to do here is communicate with him and probably lock out his cell phone
so he is is not communicating with the world. you want things between him and law enforcement negotiators. they'll try to send a robot up there with a throw phone, that's what negotiators call them. they can do that with a cell phone or hard line. that phone will only talk to negotiators. then they can block out with other tools, block out the cell signal. he will be isolated to just talk to negotiators. then they'll listen to him, use the negotiation skills to listen to his ranting. going to be a guy that talks a lot. they constantly talk. i watched his live feed, almost all of it. he is a pretty typical government extremist. they all think the one their death will start the revolution. they've been saying that for 45 years.
they all say that, you know, and go out in a blaze of death and of course it doesn't start anything. but that's a pretty standard refrain. this guy is at the end of his emotional ropes, pretty clearly. he did have a purpose, chuck, if he brought a white board, had some devices with him, whether real or not. the key is that he doesn't get, the perimeter is secure. i watched it on the news. it is backed up well. capitol police did a great job. people in the buildings are safe. i wouldn't be looking out the window, fragmentation can travel a long way and strike you in the face. rule is, if it can see you, you can see it, you don't want that situation. get back behind the wall, let the cameras see it. it will hurt the camera. this could end suddenly. it could end with him trying to
drive away and rifle shots from law enforcement sniper, or he could blow up if the bomb is live. the way you want it to go, he takes the negotiator's phone and they get into a long dialogue. they want to talk. they act like they don't want to talk, but they all want to talk. he is going to want to talk, tell you his anti-government beliefs, why joe biden is no good, why everybody is no good. that will go on a long time. you have to ride that train with him, try to build rapport. he may be suicidal. it is possible he is suicidal. you have to deal with that. but slowing it down is key for the chief negotiator, on scene commanders.
there's a lot of resources there. everybody is safe, if he blows up, he is really going to just kill himself. jim, let me bring in frank. mindful of what jim said, that essentially the process here is to slow things down a little bit, get more methodical so he doesn't harm folks around him, and if he harms anybody, it is only himself. what kind of auxiliary plans are folks making to possibly while he is talking, maybe they can confirm there's no bomb. what are the different plan b, c, d options that they could be putting together as they try to figure out how to end the standoff. >> they are working the alternate plan. the key as has been said by jim is listen. what is he saying. the fact that he brought a wipe
board with him meanings he's not looking today to die, at least not yet. he has a grievance to air. behind the scenes, they're going to listen, listen. don't want tactical resolution if they don't have to, the best negotiators are available, particularly from washington field office of the fbi, capitol police, metro police, they'll work in tandem. as all of that goes on, behind the scenes they're tracing that license plate, back to north carolina. who is this guy, prior military service, bomb training, going to be looking for any signs he has been building some device or has capability to. as we know, they haven't laid eyes on a device. they have to figure out whether he might have one. that changes the dynamic. they're interviewing friends and neighbors, what's his beef, what's it about. capable of killing himself, does he want to die today. what do we need to do to resolve this. that investigative work is happening now. and then containment. what happens if he drives off suddenly, drives at the police. are they able to tactically take
this guy down if they have to, disable the vehicle. will shots be fired at the tires. can they get a dog, bomb dog or remote sniffing sensing device that will say i sense presence of electronic explosives or other ammunition in a vehicle. this investigative and intelligence component is being done rapidly as we speak. >> frank, i'm curious, i guess there's no -- what level of patience do you expect atf, fbi, capitol police to have. if he wants to keep talking for six hours, would they let him do that, or is there a point the more he talks, more confident this guy is maybe bluffing and try to end this quickly? >> yeah, time, time, time. talk, talk, talk. the fbi has learned from the infamous freeman standoff, for example, that was successfully resolved in terms of hey, we're
here all day. when our shift is done, there will be another shift coming to talk to you. we are here for you. let's listen. they do not want loss of life on this. they'll keep going. if they sense a turn in talks, this guy is going to hurt himself, come at us, things will change in a heartbeat. >> don't want to create a martyr either. they want it not to be violent. >> right. because we have been warned, dhs told us in the last week or two, there's a perfect storm happening here. people are upset about mask mandates, vaccine mandates, all of this, dhs creates a perfect storm. people will act out angrily anti-government. that's what pete williams told us, this guy seems to be manifesting and here we are. >> an important reminder. the warning went out about two weeks ago, here we are. pete williams, garrett haake, jim cavanaugh, frank figure
louisiana ee, thank you. we'll be following any developments and new things we need to share, we'll bring you updates as soon as we have them. up next, back to the bigger stories we have been covering, including the white house and pentagon trying to get on the same page about the scramble to evacuate americans from afghanistan. america contends chaos was unavoidable. speak to retired general petraeus that ran operations in afghanistan for a time here next. rashida: dan, no pain, no gain. okay? dan: yeah i know, it's just...hello? claire, what? fire? ...or always road tripping on empty dan... rashida: i told you this would happen. dan: the light was not even on. no, it was on. dan: what? with the new citi custom cash℠ card it pays to be you. from fitness clubs, gas stations, restaurants and more, earn 5% cash back that automatically adjusts to your top eligible spend category, up to $500 spent each billing cycle.
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hours. 7,000 people in total since last saturday. well below the 5 to 9,000 a day they were hoping to get to at some point when kabul began to fall. while those efforts continue, access to the airport is tight with the taliban krogh the area. president biden says troops may have to stay beyond the self imposed august 31st deadline to get all americans out of the country, and is also defending the administration hand egg of the withdrawal, calling the chaos unfolding inevitable, despite what he said a month ago. >> look, the idea that somehow there's a way to have gotten out without chaos ensuing, i don't know how that happens. i don't know how that happened. >> your own intelligence community assisted the afghan government will likely collapse. >> that is not true. the afghan government will come
together. they clearly have the capacity to sustain the government in place. the question is, well they generate the kind of cohesion to do it. >> the president continues to face backlash over how the u.s. is leading afghanistan with the military and intelligence community appear to be saying at least publicly they're in agreement chaos in some form was expected, even if the speed at which it happened was not. for more, i am joined by kelly o'donnell and courtney tube at the pentagon. start at the white house, kelly. does the white house have a good explanation, so if the president now says chaos inevitable, then are they acknowledging he mislead us? was that mislead a month ago on purpose because they didn't want to offend the afghan government? >> reporter: well, they're not acknowledging that discrepancy yet. we had no opportunity, briefing,
ability to get a real sense of that. what they are saying is that they had planned for and expected there could be a fall, but the timing, that it wouldn't be as precipitous as it happened. today, the president and vice president have been in the situation room, getting the latest assessments of what's happening, especially in the airport in kabul and efforts to evacuate americans and those allies that are part of the credentialed program to get out of afghanistan. but this is a real question about what the president's sense of what would happen would be. in april when he announced intention to withdraw by the deadline of august 31st, he talked about working with allies, having an orderly process. he also talked about given the opportunity with questions and answered, on a couple of different occasions saying it was not inevitable that kabul
would fall and that he portrayed in a couple instances that intelligence and military advice to him was somehow split, not a case of he got different than what was given to him. that's an unclear picture, what factors the president was evaluating when he made the decision. he has been up front about the fact he stands by the decision to exit by august 31st or shortly thereafter, if necessary, to retrieve more americans, and also believes the u.s. should have done this long ago. so the president has a very firm belief the u.s. role in afghanistan should be over and now there are questions about the mess that is existing now and there have been some improvements, they do have control he says in an interview, no one has been killed in recent days. we don't know if that is exactly correct based on some interactions on the ground, but there was some measure of
stability the pentagon talks about today and they believe the taliban has been following through on allowing safe passage. still, a lot of questions. it is very much a fluid situation and remains a perilous one. everyone acknowledges that. but there are real questions about information flow to the president and what our reporting says the picture was in advance and what factors he used to make his decision and what his expectations really were. >> look, i question the information flow in this respect. he, himself on monday said it is never a good time to leave, which tells me it might not have mattered what information he got, his mind might have already been made up there. anyway, a lot of contradictions, emanating mostly from the president's own rhetoric. let me move to the pentagon with courtney kube. i want to play something from general milley yesterday. what i found interesting, it seems as if we now have an idea that they all want to at least publicly claim the same set of facts that they were dealing
with. here is general milley yesterday. >> i have previously said from this podium and in sworn testimony before congress that the intelligence cleared indicated multiple scenarios were possible. one of those was outright taliban takeover, following rapid collapse of afghan security forces and the government. however, the time frame of rapid collapse widely ranged from weeks, to months, to years, following our departure. there was nothing that i or anyone else saw that indicated a collapse of this army and this government in 11 days. >> courtney, we have been wondering, that's not finger pointing at this point now, if it is finger pointing, now the pentagon and white house pointing fingers at the intel community, seems like they're all now saying kind of the same
thing, even when you look at the anonymous on the record quote we got from the quote, intel community when nobody would put their name on it. >> right. if you sort of pull back on exactly what it was general milley was saying, he is acknowledging there was at least one, a number of assessments here. intelligence never tells you what is exactly going to happen, tells you probability, potentially likelihood different things may happen and gives you various scenes. we know one of the scenarios was afghan government and military would collapse, taliban would be able to take over. one of those scenarios included them doing it within weeks of the u.s. military leaving. look where we are. bag ram closed down end of june, beginning of july. most u.s. troops were out when bagram closed down. there was a transition ceremony in mid july in kabul where the long time commander, general scott miller, stepped down. for all in tents and purposes
that was the end of the u.s. military presence in afghanistan. the remaining troops were securing the embassy, small contingent at the airport, and small contingent in addition to that. we were talking hundreds of trops that were there. take that as timeline, mid july to now, about a month from the time the u.s. military left the country and the taliban took over. that's assistant with what was the worst case scenario, one of the worst case scenario. the notion they were not planning for it is simply not true. >> certainly looks like we negotiated with the taliban for august 31st, give us to august 31st, give us safe passage. seems nobody wants to admit we negotiated this with the taliban, but certainly looks like something has been communicated. >> absolutely. we know there are communications
now at the state department level and at the military commander level. the admiral, two star, on the ground, in kabul is having primarily technical talks with the taliban commander who is sort of his counterpart, and they're discussing. we don't know a lot of the specifics, but it is clear they're discussing things like giving safe passage, to get through taliban check points and get to the airport. the reality, this is in the taliban's interest. they want the u.s. and western allies out of the country. so it is in their interest for them to let them through, get them out of the country. what we don't quite know, is there really a timeline on this? defense officials are saying they conveyed to the taliban that the u.s. presence officially is supposed to be over on august 31st, do the taliban accept that or is there any wiggle room if in fact they can't get all americans out by then, we can't get those answers. the reality is i suspect these
conversations are still ongoing and nothing is set in stone on that yet. >> all right. kelly o'donnell, courtney kube at the white house and pentagon respectively, thank you both. joining me, someone who has quite a bit of experience with this, general david petraeus. former cia director. if i read the rest of his resume, the segment will be over. general petraeus, let me not just follow up on the president's contention it would have been chaotic anyway, let's start with leaving bagram. did we do this out of order? interesting that courtney kube reminded me, if you count handing bagram over as the end of the military role in this, then the intelligence community was right. basically the government lasted a month.
is that a tell that we did this in the wrong order? >> well, it is really just when we ended our support for afghan forces on the ground. the psychological blow that result knowing no one is coming to the rescue with resupply, drones providing picture and close air support, especially when we withdrew 18,000 contractors that kept the afghan air force flying, u.s. provided helicopters and planes, i don't know if it was bagram specifically, it was end of our support for those on the ground that again ultimately culminates in a real psychological blow to those who would fight initially against that taliban offensive simultaneous around the country and many places for a couple of days, waiting to see if the commandos team, if there's emergency resupply and close
support, when they realized we were there and they couldn't sustain the tempo they were flying, especially after shot up a great deal, they did what ans did for centuries, find a way to survive. check, it is interesting. peter better again reminded a number of us that there's a long standing practice in washington when you have an undesirable outcome of policy decision to describe it as an intelligence failure. you see a bit of that going on now as well. let's recognize, there were alternatives, a number of us put forward alternatives for a number of years, try to get to what vice president biden was seeking years ago but wasn't possible then, we didn't have the constellation of drones that we can put in the air nowadays which was a light footprint. 25 to 3500 troops, coalition had 8500, 18,000 contractors, was that not sustainable? you haven't had a battlefield loss in 18 years.
that's for later i think right now. the focus is how do you ensure we get the americans out, do you continue beyond 31 august if necessary, and appears it is going to be, at the pace they're being pulled out. i was heartened by the way by the president explaining that, you know, now we're going to base decisions on conditions, not on a political timeline. and we have enormous influence with the taliban. they do not want to mix it up with us. they know what happens on the receiving end of our military capabilities. seldom worked out well for them and they know they're facing enormous budget deficit, the afghan budget, normally 18 or $19 billion, generate 1 to 2 billion in revenue, now supplemented with the narcotics trade they controlled as well, they have a huge challenge, paying government workers,
priming up the economy which has been taking a huge shot, and what happens when the lights go out not just in kabul but around the country. i think there's some chance we should be pragmatic enough to give it a chance to see what does happen. will they return the country to the 7th century and fundamentalist interpretation of sharia law or be a bit more pragmatic in the hope they can get that economy going again and pay their workers. >> i was going to say, there's a sense they're not acting the way -- they're not isis, there isn't this aspiration will delusional focus, they seem to have, do you think they're to be reasoned with, to be negotiated with, there to have diplomatic relationships with? it sounds like you do or you
think we should find out. >> they've never had a death, they know if they cross the united states, especially now, we have a lot of capability to bring to bear. again, very seldom emerge from an encounter with the u.s. on the winning side. hard pressed to think of those, except small tactical ones indeed. ultimately they paid for those. again, that is an enormous clout that we do have. if they do impede american citizens and prevent what we are trying to do from happening, they could invite that, they could provoke it. that doesn't mean i don't think they're not still very closely related cousins of al qaeda. what they've done on the road to kabul has been abhorrent, abusive, forced marriages, forced relationships and summary executions, assassination
campaigns and the rest of this, but again, we should as you just suggested, we do have to wait and see. it is too early to start mounting the opposition especially when we still have troops on the ground. reassuring to hear the secretary of defense that served in combat, to hear the president say we'll do it based on conditions on the ground, generally what the military prefers to see, when we are making decisions, rather than hard and fast timelines and political decisions. >> general, look, there's a lot to litigate about afghanistan over 20 years. let me focus on training of the afghan security forces. look, you were part of the rhetoric back in the day. >> not part of the rhetoric. i stand by everything i said publicly and privately. >> you said they're getting these security forces are getting stronger, they're
getting better. and that may have been true in the moment, but did you always foresee they would melt away like this? is this something, did we try to create an army that was impossible to create? >> no, 27 times as many afghans died in combat for their country. it is their country, they're fighting for it, that's appropriate, as did americans. these descriptions i found of afghans as they weren't willing to fight, i just did not find shall we say charitable. again, everybody who served in afghanistan saw afghans fighting and dying but they needed to know that somebody had their back, and clearly there was not appreciation for the potential for soldiers and local leaders to do what happens in a country like afghanistan, they realize after fighting a couple days, this is early on. then it became an epidemic of
that, but early on in kandahar, variety of other places, the commanders reinforced them, held them off, then they start to realize that the afghan air force cannot sustain what it has been doing. certainly can't replicate the u.s. air force and its capabilities, and we're going to have to either flee, fight and die, or surrender or cut a deal, which is really what again, this is a country that has survived for centuries, different empires and courses going across its soil. that should have been expected. the bipartisan group commissioned by congress, led by a great former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, general joe dunford who was a commander of u.s. and coalition forces in afghanistan. that study group had the word collapse in it as potential. again, if you don't have soldiers' back on the battlefield, the results are a little more than predictable.
especially after you fought for some amount of time. this war was fought as long as we were there. we were sort of the glue in capability that kept that, not just that force, but the government. hall of famer flawed, shortcomings, maddening, frustrating activities. >> let me ask you this. do you think, we kept referring to this as our longest war for a long period of time. over the last five years, it wasn't necessarily the way, it wasn't as, there were plenty of folks in harm's way but it was not nearly as hot a war as it was in the first ten years. >> haven't lost a soldier in 18 months. >> why do you think the argument turning bagram didn't have
political resonance. you had both sides of the aisle not comfortable with the analogy. why do you think that was? >> i think that in particularly political campaigns, previous administration certainly began this, in fact, negotiations where they said we want to leave, which doesn't provide you a strong foundation for negotiating and indeed the agreement was flawed and didn't include the afghans in the negotiations about their own country and they were democratically elected and forced them to release 5,000 fighters who quickly were turned to the front ranks. at the end of the day, i think it became almost -- to say we must end endless wars. of course we must end endless wars. candidate biden said he had done it responsibly. the truth is, we didn't end the endless war, we ended our involvement in the endless war got worse. and the outcome, i don't see how
you can see this particular outcome as something positive for u.s. national security. but you raise a good question. we have troops all around the world. yes, they're not active combat zones, but the question i always asked is could we achieve a sustainable commitment which is needed in any location where there's potential for islamist extremists to return. the likelihood of al qaeda returning and establishing the sanctuary they had under the taliban before when the 9/11 attacks were planned there is much greater with us being -- than was when we had bagram, kandahar, bases, liaison staff and headquarters. that's the situation. right now, what we need to be doing is focusing on the mission
at hand, and that is reassuring. >> absolutely. general petraeus, good to catch up with you. appreciate you coming on, sharing your perspective. >> thank you. up next, an update on the active bomb investigation that's happening near capitol hill. we'll be right back with that update. hill. we'll be right back with that update that delicious omelet was microwaved? get outta here. everybody's a skeptic. paper money. it's the future! get outta here. i'm leaving with my gold. it's not crazy. help me, mother. it's an omelet. just crack an egg.
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facebook account that's since now been deactivated. we'll keep our eyes on this through the afternoon. as you heard, this may go on for hours. the goal is to keep him talking and keep him from doing anything that might commit violence. coming up, some governors are standing firm banning mask mandates in schools. i speak to the leader of the largest school district in florida next. the largest school district in florida next who have become their parents... okay, everybody, let's do a ticket check. paper tickets. we're off to a horrible start. ...but we can overcome it. we're not gonna point out our houses, landmarks, or major highways during takeoff. don't buy anything. i packed so many delicious snacks. -they're -- -nope. would you say, ballpark, when group two is gonna get boarded? 2 hours and 58 minutes. progressive can't protect you from becoming your parents, but we can protect your home and auto when you bundle with us. someone should've left home earlier. [swords clashing]
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let me ask you, you voted to institute the mask mandate, you, the school board did, you work for the school board, what is the metrics that you are using to decide when to have the mandate in place and when to lift it? >> so good afternoon, chuck. thank you so much for having me on your show. important question, a question that frankly hasn't been answered by me or the school board but by our task force, imposed that medical experts and public health officials, and the criteria we'll look at weekly to perhaps relax the protocols focuses on county wide positivity rates, the viral load in our community which in just a few weeks increased from 70 infected people per 100,000 residents to over 700 infected people per 100,000 individuals. equally important, hospital conditions, particularly pediatric icu capacity in the
local hospitals. >> so those are the metrics. seems to be a reasonable way to go. you voted this way. have you heard from the state about what penalties could be coming the way of the miami-dade school system? >> so we have not heard from the state yet but then again i think that may have something to do with the fact our school year does not begin until the 23rd. so at this point we have developed protocols and have communicated protocols to our work force and parent community, but it hasn't been enforced because the school year hasn't started. we have a pretty good idea and sense as far as the possible consequences because we have monitored the state's interaction with other districts, including broward and manatee counties. look, chuck, this is an issue that unfortunately whether you talk masks or quarantine of students, it has been so
politicized, radicalized, and there's no feed. we made a decision and i am proud of the decision we made based on expert advice of medical personnel. experts, researchers, public health officials. what is the alternative? who else should we listen to as we develop protocols, do nothing more or less than protect children and teachers greeting them come monday. >> do you have a sense how many teachers and students would not show up if there was not a mask mandate implemented by the county? >> i don't have a sense other than experience from last year. last year we had a similar protocol in place which means mandate mask, but with appropriate accommodations based on medical grounds as well as
pre-existing medical conditions, ieps. we didn't chase a challenge last year. this has been totally manufactured. i think one of the biggest dangers is this, that if we relax protocols at a time you see a surge in dangers is this. if we relax the protocols at a time when we see a surge in the cases, and when we see greater utilization of the pediatric beds in the community, and the continuity of the instruction that our kids need may be compromised and we need them in school at a brick and mortar setting with a fantastic teacher, and the best way to ensure that is by having a multi layered set of protocols and approaches from the social distancing to intensive technological disinfect shun of schools and utilization of the spaces and the wearing of the masks and the vaccination of all of the eligible individuals.
>> and alberto, my kids have said, i will wear how many mask you will make me wear, because i don't want to do the remote school anymore. and probably many more students in that regard. is there a point where the county, do you believe that the county should add the covid vaccine as one of the mandatory vaccines that you have to have if not for participating in the school, participating in say extracurricular activities like sports? >> i think that is an appropriate question to be answered with a greater level of confidence once the vaccine receives full fda approval, and until then, we have taken appropriate steps which is to incentivize financially the vaccination of the workforce. i am proud that in our community that every single teacher and employee based on the conversation with the board yesterday will receive a financial incentive as high as
$250 or $300 for being vaccinated. i am encouraged for what is happening in the community, and it is a large urban center in america, and we have a larger percentage of individuals that are all age groups that we are talking about 12 through 19-year-olds and older vaccinated with two doses at which in some cases has 70 to 80 or 90%, and so we are on the right trend with the right momentum. and we will have the appropriate conversations regarding the mandatory vaccinations, but at this point, we are working for incentives to get to the herd immunity level that we need. >> on the county level, it does seem to me that all of the officials and your peers are speaking basically with one voice on that front and this is good to see. miami school superintendent
alberto cavalho, good to see you. and now joining me is dr. peter hotez, and speaking about at the vaccination of kids, and we are still dealing with the outdated research, when it is coming to the threat of covid for kids under 12, because all of the research people keep using is prealpha. >> that is right, chuck. they are looking at the experience of how things have gone in 2020 and the beginning of 2021, and you know, we were able to make it work. and partly, that is because all of the kids had masks and people are thinking, well now that the certain percentage of the people are vaccinated, it should go fine, but it doesn't work that way. delta is far more transmissible than anything that we have seen. here in the south, we have profoundly underperformed in terms of vaccinating and what we are seeing now is this massive wave of this firestorm of the covid-19 across the south. i don't know if the kids are
getting selectively infected, but the firestorm is bringing up a lot of kids with it. we are seeing a huge increase of the pediatric hospitalizations, and this is before school starts, so we will be seeing a huge amount of pediatric hospitalizations and pediatric admissions if we don't fully vaccinate. >> this decision now of now needing a third shot at the eight-month mark, and the research in israel, and what is this telling us going forward? the likelihood that this is the last need for the shot versus the likelihood that this is a annual or the semiannual event, and where are we headed here? >> well, chuck, i don't believe it is adequately messaged that this is going to be a three-dose vaccine from the beginning. when we made that commitment early on to space the first two doses three or four weeks apart, we did that to aggressively vaccinate the american people, and were losing 3,000 american
lives everyday in december and january and that was a wide decision, but the problem is when you bring the first two doses close together like that, it is stacking the deck against you getting a long-term durable response, and this is why we knew that a third immunetation would be necessary, and then we will see a big boost in the longer term immunization. that is why i don't believe it is an annual event like a flu vaccine and not one and two and done or three and done, but at least for a while, and those points need to be better communicated to the american people. >> so say you have not been vaccinated until now, and do you think that the protocol should still be three weeks for shot two or are we now looking at it should be sort of every four months until you finish the three or a three-shot protocol for a year, or what should be
the protocol and under a normal time line? >> well, what should be the protocol is what we have the data to support both for efficacy and safety and right now, we have a lot of data supporting that three to four-week interval, and still a good vaccine even if you have only two doses in terms of keeping you out of the hospital, and then get that boost a while later, and look, we have done it with the hpv vaccines is and we do it with so many vaccines and most of them are more than three doses or at least three doses, so we shouldn't be too surprised by that, but it is important to figure out how to walk and chew gum at the same time, and we have to boost those who have already gotten the two doses, but we have 90 million americans who have not gotten a single dose, and this is what is devastating us here in the south where the vaccination rates are so low. >> dr. peter hotez from baylor,
always get to get your expertise, and thank you for being with us. and thank you all for being with us, and we will have much more tomorrow, and the latest on the capitol hill standoff with geoff bennett will continue right after this break. reak. it's okay, you can stare. when you're a two-time gold medalist, it comes with the territory. (gong rings) - this is joe. (combative yelling) he used to have bad breath. now, he uses a capful of therabreath fresh breath oral rinse
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