tv Deadline White House MSNBC September 17, 2021 1:00pm-3:00pm PDT
edes eosinophils, a key cause of severe asthma. nucala is not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your doctor about nucala. find your nunormal with nucala. hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. happy friday. there's some breaking news this afternoon, and it is a potential setback in the white house's plan to roll out all across this country booster shots. the fda advisory panel voted an overwhelming 16-2 against pfizer booster doses for fully vaccinated americans over 16 years old. that vote coming as the biden administration was ironing out a
plan to get all fully vaccinated americans a third shot. that rollout was supposed to start next week. here was dr. fauci this morning. >> are you expecting pfizer booster shots to be approved? >> you know, i don't want to get ahead of the fda deliberations. the data that i've seen i believe strongly suggests that will be the case. our position about at least planning for the eventuation we might have to give boosters. we have planned and are ready to go pending the decision that's made from a regulatory standpoint by the fda and their advisers. >> so here is what happens now. all of that is up to the full fda and the cdc who, throughout the coronavirus pandemic, have typically agreed with this committee's nods of approval with the use of existing vaccines. those vaccines, the fda said, are still effective, though,
against severe disease and death. a third shot can increase immunity against the milder breakthrough infections and it all adds some uncertainty in terms of what the full fda committee is going to do. let he's bring in to our coverage infectious disease physician, founding director of the center for emerging infectious disease policy and research at boston university and lucky for us an msnbc contributor. the founding director of the national center for disaster preparedness and lucky for us an msnbc public health analyst. doctor, just explain what this decision is today. is this the last word on boosters? >> nicolle, so not even the last word yet from this committee because i think that today the charge was to answer the question about what are the safety and efficacy or effectiveness data supported for those over 16 -- for those over
12 rather. they found based on the data presented, the questions they were trying to answer where is immunity waning for these groups? and there's clear evidence for those in israel and those under 60 may be at risk and trying to answer the question are we trying to prevent infections or prevent severe illness because preventing infections reduces transmissions, and is that going to make a difference in changing the course of the pandemic? there's a lot of back and forth. they felt there wasn't enough evidence there. the last was for the younger population, was there a balance in terms of safety versus benefit? was there enough safety data for third doses for older teenagers and those in their 20s? now the committee has voted down the larger question, they will go back and answer the question whether those over 60 or 65 and those with medical conditions or high occupational risks such as health care workers, may be those getting the booster first.
>> dr. bhadelia, you raise an interesting point. it appeared that the white house was saying to stop the spread of the very dangerous and changing delta variant, stopping infections is a worthwhile goal and that's what they were pointing toward. if the committee is looking at a different goal, stopping disease and death, it seems like maybe this isn't the blow that it appears at first blush. maybe these are misaligned policy aims. >> yes, and i think we sort of -- there are. and that's what it is, right? it's not just a scientific question. it's also a policy aid. and the answer to this is basically coming up with what are we trying to achieve with these vaccines and what will be the greatest benefit? i think they can -- it would be pretty rare for the fda not to take the recommendations, but we'll see what happens particularly when, as you said, sometimes the policy questions are different than the medical
questions that are in front of the fda committee because in their mind the scientific data is not enough to make that decision. and that's the charge they were given. >> doctor, your reaction to the breaking news? >> well, i agree with dr. bhadelia. it is a very complex question with lots of conflicting data sets right now. there are two agendas. are we going to make a decision that will protect more people from getting sick, but the second question, tamping down the spread of covid-19 with a third booster shot. both of those are critical questions and neither of them have anything other than conflicting data sets to make those decisions on. the policy decision should be based on the science but the science is not yet definitive and that is a problem. it is inevitable that the booster shot being made available relatively soon for people who have high risk, either immuno compromised or
older or whatever it might be, that is something that is medically necessary but as a public health policy decision there will be other factors at play here and that will be coming up soon and resolved soon. it's inevitable that we're going to get this ball rolling here soon. >> dr. redlener, what is the practical application for people out there who were waiting for some sort of sign today in terms of what they should do? well, i guess we're talking about -- first of all, the general public what do they need to know? eventually there's probably going to be a booster shot quickly made available to people at risk. secondly in terms of the general population that's much more complicated public health and policy decision. but at the end of the day i think the public needs to know that. then the question comes to practicing physicians and vaccine clinics. what are they supposed to do and what they're supposed to do is follow the guidelines that will
come out of the fda. but the other thing that we can't ignore is there's been an incredible amount of internal dissension and this has been a chronic challenge for this administration that i'm actually quite surprised about. they need to get their communication act together. and so far i think it's kind of disappointing that they can't do that. they can't make an announcement. they would have to back off the announcement. the fda and the cdc must be aligned and hopefully that will start happening more effectively soon. >> so let me share with both of you some updated information i just got. the committee is going to vote on a new question about the recommendation of booster shots, a new question most likely what dr. bhadelia described, the narrow focus to approve booster shots for people aged 65 and over.
they're taking a ten-minute break to draft that language. is that an acknowledgement that what they've done today seems to contradict what dr. fauci said this morning and they need to come down with something definitive on this narrower question what to do for americans 65 and older, dr. bhadelia? >> well, i think, nicolle, i posted this before and i've spoken about it. i think that's where the data currently stands. let's differentiate what the policy decisions should be from the science. the science is clearest showing those over 60 from the data from israel, from the data the cdc published on patients over 75 seeing a drop in hospitalization -- efficacy against hospitalization, that's where the science stands. what the committee is saying is based on the current signs this is what we can say with confidence. you saw additional data. there is a risk for people even in their 40s, and that's the addition of the medically high
risk. and then the last, look, if people like health care workers such as myself and dr. redlener who got their vaccines in december, if the efficacy is going down, we're around vulnerable people and so occupationally that makes sense. the public policy wise it makes sense for those folks to also be protected. i don't necessarily think it's to appease or to try to come to terms. i think that is where the science currently stands. >> dr. redlener, how did the white house get to a place where the president made an announcement about a booster shot rollout plan? was he sort of blind sided by where the panel was breaking in terms of their recommendations or was it maybe this policy goal of preventing infections to stop the spread of delta?
how are they left looking like they got ahead of the science, something they have pledged, they will always abide by the science. what happened they seemed to have gotten their timing misaligned? >> right. and i think this is the question of the day, nicolle and is a real problem. it cuts across the credibility of the administration. they cannot be doing this over and over again. this has happened with other public health experts. and i think this is something -- [ inaudible ] at the end of the day when the president got ahead of himself or let the policy or announcements get ahead of the scientific determination of the next steps that need to be taken that is a problem that cannot happen. in this day of already shaky credibility of government
officials, we need to see a much better coordinated messaging whether it's from the president or from the major agencies, whatever it is, they have to, behind the curtains figure out how to make this all cohesive and credible entirely along the process of making these announcements. >> dr. bhadelia, there is now a demand. the vaccinated have, i think, an expectation that the vaccine will continue to protect them. it is sort of the only solace in this very almost divided status of the delta variant raging and packing hospitals and impacting all the care not just for covid patients but if your kid has appendicitis you're waiting longer. if someone has a heart attack, your chances of surviving may be diminished in a place with packed icus. what is sort of the reality of what's happening in america and the vaccinated wanting to stay
free from illness or anything that could get them into a hospital situation which are inundated? is there an acknowledgement of this moment, this crisis in public health in the country? >> this was posed in a different way, nicolle. what is the public health impact on transmission, decreasing transmission for boosters and there's not enough evidence. israel suggested, look, our cases all came down in all age groups because we're reducing that, that's inference. the cdc representative was asked this as well and one can presume that the boosters may. however, the greatest impact that will have on the public health perspective many people have said is to try to get the first and second doses in people. there's still a question to be had. i think we're going to continue discussing this because the other scientific question up
there is should the entire series just be three doses? was it we gave the first two doses too close together and we need that third dose to have a more mature immune reaction that's more long term? and that's also a scientific question that hasn't been answered yet. i don't think the booster for everyone in question is gone completely. i would imagine we'll have to keep discussing this. >> let me give you the last word on this question. is there a silver lining for the vaccinated public under 60 without any sort of immuno compromised condition that we're still okay, we're still protected? >> i feel confident people without those extra risk factors are, in fact, affected. i really would not worry about that. again, if we're facing a situation where we're having a lot of people who may have
reduced immunity, those people are very likely and inevitably should get the third booster shot. we have a lot of factors here. one of the things i think is worth concluding with is the people at risk need to probably get a third booster. the people at high exposure levels, which we should also talk about which includes people who work in crowds, people who work in hospitals, people who are around a lot of people all day long though they may not be personally having the extra risk factors. but really, one last final word, we have a problem with people getting first and second shots. we look at a map of the united states and see vast areas of under vaccinated people. people need to make sure -- [ inaudible ] the many, many communities
around the country where they're still far behind and actually contributing the spread of covid. >> doctors, thank you both for jumping on the air with us. this was a breaking story. we appreciate both of your flexibility. we'll stay on it. keep your phones close. we may call on you again over the next two hours. when we come back the disgraced ex-president's campaign to purge his party of anyone he perceives as disloyal to him. a rising star is leaving calling it quits as he faces threats to his safety, his family's safety, his retirement revealing what is left of today's republican party is no good and another republican who doesn't feel the gop represents him. the new hampshire law maker who became a democrat over covid safety and health mandates pushed out by extremists on the right. he'll be our guest later in the program. coming up, capitol police say
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ex-president. anthony gonzalez can be driven out of office at any time. anthony gonzalez, one of ten house republicans who voted to impeach donald trump for inciting the deadly insurrection announced his retirement last night partly out of fears for the safety of his family. from "the new york times" calling former president donald trump a cancer for the country. anthony gonzalez, republican of ohio, said in an interview thursday that he would not run for election in 2022 rather than compete against a trump-backed primary opponent. he said that quality of life issues have been paramount in his decision. he recounted an eye opening moment when he and his family were greeted at the cleveland airport by two uniformed police officers, part of extra security precautions being taken after that impeachment vote. gonzalez and a handful of republicans who acted on their belief that trump is a danger to
democracy have been the targets of a campaign to effectively drive them out of the party. it's a campaign that includes intimidation and threats of violence like the ones gonzalez faces. remember this? this was mitt romney. he was harassed and called a traitor while traveling to d.c. to certify the election results. liz cheney was ousted from her leadership position. the anger against her so intense that trump ally and alleged child sex trafficker campaigned against her. the barrage of attacks from the trump propaganda machine that is fox news. >> she just can't quit talking about the capitol riots, she calls the insurrection. republicans want to move on, but cheney refuses to. she's a woman obsessed. >> lending her dwindling credibility to nancy pelosi that
is liz cheney. she knows she's coming to the end of the road. her own voters despise her. >> lisa murkowski that don't fight for these principles, i don't see any need for them in the republican party. they're weak, thayer ineffective and in the case of lisa murkowski she's not even fighting for her state. >> how is that? the reverend al sharpton, president of the national action network, also joining us msnbc contributor anna palmer, founder of punch bowl news and charlie sykes for "the bulwark." charlie sykes, the congressman has just given an interview to his local station. let me show you what he said. >> is there room for you or people like you with ideology and policy in the party? >> i think there is. the thing i always say voters
ultimately decide the direction of the party. one thing i'll say, if you sort of look at the typical primary electorate you're looking at roughly 10% of the population. and i think there's an open question how do we change the dynamics where more people are voting in primaries which is for congressional seats the reality is you need more people to participate in the democratic process. when i speak to people the vast majority have discussed it with both parties. and they want to see something they can latch on to. it's disappointing for them and for me. there is a way to bring us back from the brink and that's for people to participate in these primaries. >> let me read to you what is going to come after him if a republican prevails in the
district from our friend and colleague. gonzalez's vote to impeach resulted in a primary from max miller. he worked for trump and allegedly assaulted his girlfriend and colleague. unlike gonzalez, miller was no athletic hero. miller had no record of accomplishment though he does have a rap sheet. he had no coherent policy critique of gonzalez. the primary was to be a referendum whether they wanted a trump toty even if it means overthrowing american democracy. a perfect encapsulation of the republican party's dissent into something even darker and even worse than what we see right now. >> that's exactly right. it feels like a familiar story this ongoing purge of the decent, the principled, the honorable members and their
replacement by the deplorable. think of max miller as the biff character from "back to the future." you're finding the most obnoxious people around. i thought one of the things congressman gonzalez said was interesting, he thought he could have won a primary but he didn't think it was worth it anymore. he could have spent the next year fighting through all this bs and all he would have won was a chance to sit in a caucus with deplorables like marjorie taylor greene and he just didn't want to do it anymore. some of the good gus who are leaving and people who will make this more anti-democratic, more authoritarian. and this is kind of the tragedy.
part of me wishes he would have stayed and fought. i understood as a human being, why do you want it? why do you want to sit in a caucus run by someone like kevin mccarthy? is it worth it anymore? >> i'll be totally honest, charlie, i've been so crushed with disappointment and disgust by the people that know better. people like him. he voted to impeach. but before him people like paul ryan, people like rob portman, people who knew that everything trump said and did was either corrupt or uninformed or disgusting or in some instances all three. and but their absence leads to something worse. are you confident when the takeover is complete it will be a smaller party and a diminished party? >> i would like to think so. i would like to think there will be a moment of reality. i'm not sure.
what is clear this is one of those cases where the worst are full of passionate intensity and one after another the people who have you had have been the solution, should have been the guardrails, have retreated or caved in or gone along with all of this. we don't know where this is going to go with this party. if they get in power, it will be more intensely trumpy than what we've seen the last few years. >> i don't even know what that means. recounting ballots in multiple states. rev, i want to show you something that congressman collin allred said on this network earlier about the significance of this retirement. >> anthony is a division rival on the colts for us. we played them twice a year.
i've been on the other side of him in congress and he's a friend of mine. he's a good and decent guy and it's a loss for the congress, a loss for the country. if you don't have an anthony gonzalez in the congress, i think it's a sign the republican party is fundamentally broken. like me and my colleagues he has serious security concerns and both of us have young kids that are playing into this. these are issues in other countries. that shouldn't be something that happens in the united states. >> and, rev, the reason that political violence is a reality is complicated and not so complicated. the ex-president is a fan of it. he did not condemn the insurrection in forceful terms. he said on that day we love you. he said of the jailed insurrectionists recently that they had his support. we are heading down an
incredibly, incredibly perilous path here just with one of the two parties' views on political violence. >> i think that is all the more reason people like congressman allred and others commend gonzalez taking a stand and people many of us may disagree with on every political point but deals with the fact there's a difference between criminal behavior and violent behavior and insurrectionist behavior and in political and policy disagreements. and to show you how far we've gone. as you said the ex-president supporting those that did what they did on january 6th which was an insurrection. a rally tomorrow where we're saying we hope it's not violent and not dealing with the fact
they are having a rally supporting people that broke the law. trying to stop a vote in the united states. if you want to know how tremendously out of whack that is, if you want to know how offensive that should be, imagine if after the george floyd killing in minneapolis i did the eulogy, we had a lot of the marches, some people looted and burned down stores. suppose i went back in and held a rally for the people that looted and burned down stores saying they were political prisoners or when michael brown was killed and there were riots and president obama said he supports those that did rioting. it would be unthinkable. it would be outrageous. they wouldn't be talking about if there's a violence at the rally. they would be saying how dare
sharpton do that and how dare anyone act like this and even remotely justified about it. that's what we're witnessing tomorrow. they are supporting violence. people died there were injuries. people were desecrating and defacing senators and congressmen's offices and we're acting like this is a protest tomorrow. this is normalizing that behavior. >> the congressman calls trump a cancer. fox news is the metastasized body on the right being so toxic and so sick that violence is green lit. i'm not going to read what the ex-president said about
gonzalez, but i'll try to characterize it. donald trump today reacting to gonzalez's news by calling him a rhino, describes the tremendous loss of popularity and went back to his thin skin squeal about an ill informed and very stupid impeachment vote. when the most powerful person in a political person is obsessed with revenge, we know what happens. you have kevin mccarthy negotiating the terms of a bipartisan commission to investigate the january 6th insurrection and cut the legs out from under him. you have mitch mcconnell give a speech essentially suggesting criminal prosecution for donald trump and then high tail it out of there and refuse to be a leader. you have one guy who won twice, the last republican to do so, george bush, calling the violent strain, the extremists in the
republican party with a penchant for violence, the same threat to our country and i think it's the same cancer as the 9/11 terrorists. has that started to seep in on capitol hill? >> the energy for the republican party truly is even on capitol hill, certainly in the states and these very conservative districts, but it is also where a lot of the attention and focus is in congress where kevin mccarthy is looking to win the majority. he's not winning the majority on republicans like anthony gonzalez. he's winning the majority in 2022 by people that are very in the trumpian strain. the energy and where he's raising money and when you look at the revenge politics which is truthful with this president, this ex-president, he's going in to all of these districts, whether it's liz cheney's,
supporting primary opponents, if you cross him on impeachment or anything else, the trump wing of the party is going to try to take you out. anthony gonzalez was talked about as a potential senate republican candidate in that state and now he's just completely taking himself out of the mix where he was this rising star. if you were looking to find a way forward, his stepping back is really going to just hurt you. who wants to run when you can't have somebody call up another potential candidate. you should run. this isn't as bad as it looks on national television. why would anyone want to get in the game? >> charlie sykes, i asked you where this leads. what happens if this doesn't sort of bob along in this
intense position where we have a threat to the homeland that adhere to these two pinnacles mostly fueled by disinformation of chafing against public health restrictions to prevent the spread of covid and adherence to the ex-president's delusional fantasies about the existence of election fraud. what do we do if something happens? >> i'm really worried about that. i agree. i think the prospect of domestic violence rises with every passing statement from the ex-president. we talked about the sedition caucus and the house of representatives. he is the seditionist in chief. it all flows from him and the fact that he issued a statement saying our hearts and minds are with the people who are being persecuted as a result of january 6th, that was a stunning
moment. we talk about normalization too much. that not only normalized the political violence of january 6th, it tries to revise them into patriotic heroes. that's why you are having more of this bubbling threat out there as well as some really loose talk about secession. it's hard to know how it ends if somebody as prominent as donald trump it ins to pour kerosene on the fire, and his fellow republicans refuse to push back. and as far as i know, there was absolutely zero pushback yesterday when the president of the united states praised those rioters, many of whom beat and attacked and injured police officers. there was zero pushback, which would suggest that this is a party that will either embrace
violence or pretend it will go away on its own which will not happen. >> any reporting that ken mccarthy tried to get him to stay? >> i've not heard that. kevin mccarthy is focused on winning back that majority and that comes through trump heartland and having the former president on his side. i don't think anthony gonzalez is looking to any advice from kevin mccarthy here when he was making this decision. >> unbelievable state of affairs. tragic. thank you all so much. there is more breaking news out that have fda panel we've been monitoring voting unanimously in their second vote of the afternoon that the benefits of booster shots -- of the pfizer vaccine -- outweapon the risk for fully vaccinated americans over 65 years old as well as those at high risk of developing severe covid.
their opinion on boosters for that population at least six months after the second dose weighs heavily on the full fda and the cdc, of course. it follows what we reported at the top of the hour, against the their booster shot for every american 16 years and older. dr. bhedalia, this was in like with what you were predicting. >> it was. whether this was a failure on the biden administration side and does this go against what they were trying to do. the evidence so far is very clear as the fda's committee, the external advisory committee said there was a benefit for those who are above a certain age and at high risk because they're most likely to see
waning immunity. approving a third dose for everybody right now there's not enough evidence you're seeing efficacy for that group but the question even if you're just trying to prevent infection, if you give boosters, is there a long-term protection and we don't have that and you have to weigh that against the risk of giving a third dose. a 20-year-old who is not seeing that and are there any side ex and the cost of trying to get set up a booster system and the cost of taking those vaccines away from first doses that might have a bigger public health impact. i do not think that's the end. i think it will probably come up again as more data is developed. it would have been irresponsible to leave today without approving it for those over 65 because there is clear evidence they need it and developing evidence
those at high risk need it as well. >> just to be clear, if the full panel and the cdc agrees, every american 65 and older who were the first vaccinated and so they may be hitting that mark, could start to line up and sign up on those vaccine websites and go to their pharmacies for a booster shot as soon as that approval is achieved? >> and those who are high risk. i want to extend that, too. it's not just those who are 65. those who are obese, potential high risk in the israeli data as well that could get the booster. i think that would be the right thing to do based on even the cdc's own data and waning immunity they saw in older populations over 65 and over 60. i think that's something that needs to start happening sooner rather than later. we have to see how the fda will take the recommendations and turn it into approval and then, also, what the cdc's advisory committee will say. >> dr. nahid bhadelia, thank you
for sticking around. up next for us, a busy afternoon, more breaking news, the pentagon in the last hour saying a deadly drone strike in afghanistan is what they're calling a tragic mistake. that developing story is next. g. r the safe pilots. like mac. who can come to a stop with barely a bobble. with usaa safepilot, when you drive safe... ...you can save up to 30% on your auto insurance. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. get a quote today. hi, i'm steve and i live in austin, texas. i work as a personal assistant to the owner of a large manufacturing firm. i've got anywhere from 10 to 50 projects going at any given time. i absolutely have to be sharp. let me tell ya, i was struggling with my memory. it was going downhill. my friend recommended that i try prevagen and over time, it made a very significant difference in my memory and in my cognitive ability. i started to feel a much better sense of well-being. prevagen. healthier brain. better life.
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august 29th drone strike, one of the last actions there, killed afghan civilians and children, calling their belief it posed a threat to u.s. force, quote, a mistake. commander general kenneth mckenzie last hour. >> having thoroughly reviewed the findings of the investigation and the supporting analysis by interagency partners i am now convinced that as many as ten civilians including up to seven children were tragically killed in that strike. moreover, we now assess that it is unlikely that the vehicle and those who died or associated with isis-k or were a direct threat to u.s. forces. this strike was taken in the belief it would prevent an imminent threat to our forces and evacuees at the airport. but it was a mistake. >> jeremy bash, former chief of staff at the cia, former chief of staff of the department of defense and an msnbc national security analyst. can you give us some context how
this was made public in this manner today? >> what a terrible development and what an awful set of circumstances. we all understand the concept of the thought of war where judgments are contorted under the pressure of saving lives but this is inexcusable, horrible. i'm proud of them for coming forward in a straightforward way and saying, yes, this was a tragic mistake. we wholeheartedly apologize. we will pay reparations and will review top to bottom how this happened. nicolle, i've been involved in observing military operations from my prior government positions. i've been involved where there was a weapon nearing mistake where the missiles were aimed at point a and went to point b or the ordinance was too big and it
reached civilians. i didn't think of a time there was such a fundamental breakdown that a target we aimed at and struck with precision was not affiliated with anybody who threatens the united states of america and tragically, in addition to the aid worker and the adults in the vehicle, seven children were tragically killed by the united states. so this is -- to call it a tragedy is an understatement. there are no words. i think the pentagon will have to thoroughly and carefully review how such a fundamental intelligence mistake was made. i know the people involves are good people. they were genuinely trying to protect the forces but there's no excuse for this and i'm glad general mckenzie didn't try to make one.
>> jeremy, on the broader conversation happening in the days since bob woodward and bob costas, excerpts of their book "peril" have come out, i've been wanting to ask your thoughts about, first, general milley's conduct, which he is defending and a lot of people are saying when all the adults and the guardrails and everyone else failed or couldn't take president trump anymore he stayed and protected the country and did the right thing. but over in delusional america there are calls for his firing and worse. your thoughts? >> well, a couple things, nicolle. first, a chairman of the joint chiefs, any chairman, has responsibility for dialoguing with other countries, both our friends and close allies as well as our potential competitors and adversaries. it's not unusual for a chairman to have conversations with the head of the chinese military or the head of another country's armed forces to compare notes, to sync up, to telegraph
specific messages. i think it's an important role this chairman played in telegraphing to the chinese, no, we're not going to attack you. there is stability in the united states. and don't miscalculate. after all, so many wars can be sparked from miscalculation. i'm totally comfortable with what general milley did in this case. moreover,this particular matter because there was such a lunatic in the oval office, someone who was unpredictable, someone who had politicized intelligence, politicized the justice department, attempted to politicize the military, i think -- it was right of general milley and i'm proud that he stood firm and made clear that the united states military was not going to be dragged into a political gamesmanship at the 11th hour and it is the duty of the military to maintain peace and security and stability of the united states. i understand there may be other contexts in which uniformed military transmitting messages
to other countries may be out of sync with what the commander in chief wanted. that wasn't this case. this case was a case where donald trump truly was threatening the stability of the entire world. and i think general milley did the right thing. >> i wanted to ask you about both of these stories for some time. thank you for making time for us today. it is great to see you. we're going to turn now to the division in this country over vaccines. this is new york city yesterday at car mine's restaurant, upper west side, where a hostess was attacked physically by a group of people after she, following the laws of, you know, asked them to show proof of vaccination, doing her job following the law. three women from texas arrested and charged with assault. this is according to "the new york times." but it is not just this one incident. life saving vaccines are currently dividing our country, creating a new kind of covid radicalism as our friend amy
stoddard dubbed it earlier in the week. next guest, a new hampshire state lawmaker was so fed up with this radicalism which he blames on an extremist gop he switched parties. he switched his affiliation from republican to democratic this week because he says the republican party today has completely lost its way. doctor and now democrat, william marsh, a former member of the republican party. i'm a former member, too. how do you feel? >> good morning, nicolle -- or good afternoon, nicolle. i'm sorting out the week. i haven't had time to digest it yet. you're right. i'm not only a former member of the party, i was vice charge of the health and human services committee of the new hampshire house. that's where i'm coming from. we have even more vaccine craziness coming out today in new hampshire. >> what is happening today? >> well, today the fiscal committee of the new hampshire general court rejected $27 million in federal funds
earmarked for distributing the covid vaccine in the state of new hampshire. i was worried about this. i mean all of our citizens -- well, not all of our citizens. a large number of our citizens want to get vaccinated. so i contacted patricia tillie of the new hampshire department of public health and i asked her what is this going to mean. she told me it is going to mean three things. she says by with withholding the funds we lost the ability to easily get vaccine to everyone who needs a booster including first responders. she tells me we have lost the ability to plan for and distribute vaccine to kids, and while hospitals -- my phone turns off here. everybody has that, i guess. while hospitals are in crisis, now we made it harder for them to manage the vaccine. i mean this doesn't help. the issue in new hampshire is the people who are in charge of the fiscal committee do not want to provide the cdc and the fda with the data that the cdc and the fda require to distribute
the covid vaccine. >> what are they hiding? >> they're trying to preempt law. >> why? >> i think they've lost their minds. i mean why would you withhold access to a vaccine in the middle of a pandemic when numbers are skyrocketing in the state of new hampshire? it makes -- it is absolutely insane in my mind, which i can't put up with it anymore so i said i'm done with this. i've left. >> what do you think -- i mean i quoted my friend amy stoddard because i think the radicalization is the best way to explain the departure from a fact-based analysis. you can, i suppose, have an honest debate about vaccine mandates at what size business that makes sense, do you do it at 20, do you do it at 50, do you do it at 100. the biden administration chose 100. i don't see a debate around federal funds for vaccine distribution and storage and education and booster shots as
you are articulating. what fuels the radicalism in the republican party? >> i think people are repeating ideas that they hear from wherever. i don't know where they're coming from, but they repeat them to themselves over and over again and it is just like brainwashing. at the end they finally believe it. when somebody says something different like me, they shut them up. >> how did they shut you up? >> they told me in june -- i believe it was june 3rd on the floor of the new hampshire house that if i got up to speak against desantis-type regulations, which would prevent businesses from requiring vaccines, requiring masks, doing the things that we know control covid, if i got up to speak against that they were going to remove me from my vice-chairmanship of health and human services. i got up and spoke.
we defeated that bill on the house floor. but they haven't spoken to me since and this is where we are. >> is there an effort to cover up the number of cases of covid in new hampshire by republicans there? >> i think the department of health and human services is excellent at reporting the data on a daily basis. i'm sure you have been able to get the graphs from their website. i don't think there's any coverup there. it is not under their control. but i think that there's denial that the data is real. >> and that's why they voted to not take the federal funds because it would have forced, it would have come with the stick and the carrot, would have been more disclosure of the state's covid information? >> i wasn't at that meeting. i was running the rare disease advisory council. i have been chairing the new hampshire rare disease advisory council since its inception, but
i became aware of this coming on and it is just one more thing. it is just over and over and over again, something comes up and they're against vaccines. they are against masks. they're against anything actually that has been shown to control covid. we have 400 members in the new hampshire house. we are going to be required to meet in person in representatives all for a veept veto session coming in a few weeks and covid is spiking in the state of new hampshire. not only covid but delta variant. my daughter goes to connecticut college. connecticut college has a vaccination rate of 99%. they test everyone before they go down there. they test everyone when they arrive on campus. when they started the school year this year they had a handful of cases like anybody does. within a week it had spiked to 6% of the college campus was infected and symptomatically infected. >> wow.
wow. >> this is what is happening. these are facts, guys. our hospitals are getting overflowing with patients, not in new hampshire so much as other places but it is really only a matter of time if these policies continue. >> we will -- >> and people are going to die. >> we are grateful to you for speaking out. we are grateful to you for making time. we will continue with your help to shine a light on what is happening in new hampshire. thank you so much for spending some time with us. >> thank you. i will continue to speak out about it. >> please do, sir. state representative dr. william marsh. thank you so much. the next hour of "deadline: white house" starts after a short break. don't go anywhere. we are just getting started. i may not be able to tell time, but i know what time it is. [whispering] it's grilled cheese o'clock.
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have a strong plan in place to ensure that it remains peaceful and that if violence does occur that we can stop it as quickly as possible. >> hi, again. it is 5:00 in new york. warning of violence at tomorrow's rally in washington, d.c. in support of the capitol insurrectionists. what you heard from capitol police, what separating this from becoming a january 6th repeat is that law enforcement is prepared. taking no chances, fencing has gone up surrounding the capitol. heightened security postures are in place. there's even the possibility that rally goers could just decide to stay home. there's a conspiracy that the rally, the whole thing is a set-up by the feds is now circulating widely among extremists. it was even bolstered by the ex-president. despite who comes to d.c. tomorrow, the sentiment behind the rally is not going away any time soon. as written in "the washington post", quote, if the goal of the rally this weekend is to elevate
a sympathetic view of the rioters it doesn't matter if it fales. after all, that elevation is already happening in the attention-seeking right-wing media ecosystem. let's look at what he is talking about. one of, if not the most prominent voice on fox nuss, tucker carlson, has been a regular disseminator about disinformation about the capitol attack. take a listen. >> there's no evidence that white supremacists were responsible for what happened on january 6th. that's a lie. contrary to what you have been hearing there's also no evidence this was a, quote, armed insurrection. strangely, some of the key people who participated on january 6th have not been charged. look at the document. the government calls those people unindicted co-conspirators. what does it mean? potentially every single case they were fbi operatives. >> we don't amplify tucker carlson for no reason. you know we don't do it often b you we show it to you today to demonstrate how dangerous those
lies are when they're repeated on networks and shows like his and sites a large number of americans trust as facts. let's dig into those specific comments. there was a claim that january 6th was not an armed insurrection. countless videos and photos from the day show rioters holding a variety of weapons, things like stun guns, pepper spray, flag poles, and defendants have now been charged with firearms violations. there's also carlson's egregious lie that the fbi was behind the capitol riot. that falsehood was quickly dispelled but it didn't stop it from finding its way into the halls of congress where some republican lawmakers repeated the false claim. another false theory spread far and wide was those who stormed the capitol were actually members of antifa disguised in trump supporter costumes. it is a claim fbi director was forced to address and shot down. >> we have not to date seen any evidence of anarchist violent
extremists or people subscribing to antifa in connection with the 6th. >> even the police officers who defended the capitol and everybody in it that day have not been spared from the con spiracies. michael fanone was called a crisis actor. he suffered a heart attack and brain injury during the insurrection. meanwhile, that same foxconn tributor wrote a pro trump book last year that the conservative national review called a, quote, dishonest disgrace. the furthering of the lies on fox news and other right-wing networks manifested itself in groups in this country living in their own alternate realities. new polling from the public religion research institute analyzed by greg sergeant and "the washington post" lays bare that phenomenon. it finds 76% of those people who trust fox news or other right-wing media believe 2020 was stolen. only 12% of those who trust those right-wing media sources
blame january 6th on trump, the man who called the rally goers to washington, then told them to march down to the capitol. told the rioters he loved them, said he was coming with them. meanwhile, 64% of them blame left-wing activists like antifa who were not there. sergeant says while the results may seem like a no brainer, right, they pose a real threat. he writes this. quote. those views add up to something truly toxic. the belief that the election was stolen and the simultaneous refusal to assign accountability for an effort to violently overthrow our constitutional order suggests right-wing propaganda may be softening the ground for a more concerted abandonment of democracy going forward. the very real threat of right-wing disinformation is where we start this hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. matthew dowd is here, political strad gist and founder of country over pare. joining us john heilemann, msnbc
national affairs analyst, the host of "the hell and high water pod wast" and host of show time's "the circus." season six -- or two premiering this weekend. carol leonnig is here, "washington post" reporter and msnbc contributor and co-author of the book "i alone can fix it." you guys are so accomplished you make me feel like i need to get off work and go write a book or do something. let me ask you, carol leonnig, about your latest reporting on this. almost sort of two sides of this coin that greg sergeant and philip bump write about, whether or not the rally for j6 as the rally sponsors are calling it is a, you know, million man endeavor or a dud in terms of turnout. the belief has gone underground a little bit that worries people that watch for threats, and it is widely spread and accepted
dogma for the trump-led gop. >> you know, it is such a caldron of rewrite of history and rewrite of everything that we see as fact. you can't, as you've pointed out over and over again in your show, you can't change the videotaped evidence of what happened on january 6th, and now, you know, chief manger, forgive me, the new chief at capitol police, has the responsibility of making sure january 6th doesn't happen again. but this promulgation of conspiracies, really quite frightening conspiracies. the idea that antifa or the fbi were behind this kind of flies in the face of the words of the protesters themselves. i mean you don't have to be very close reader of history to look at the records of the interviews of the people who rioted on
january 6th. they admit why they went, what they hoped to do, and the acts and steps that they thought they were justified in taking. you don't have to look very far than like msnbc roll, video roll or any television broadcast video roll to see evidence, and not absolutely incontrovertible evidence but pretty good evidence of felonies, thousands of them. people want to say that an office -- that there was no swrie lens on that day, but every time someone pushed a bike rack into a police officer's face they were assaulting a law enforcement officer. so this notion of them being peaceful folks who were in the wrong place at the wrong time as the rally organizer, mr. maynard, has claimed sort of strains credulity.
>> john heilemann, we talked about this. my old boss called out domestic terrorism and donald trump answered the call, responded. didn't say anything about donald trump. but i don't know. donald trump, i don't know if he sees himself as a domestic terrorist. he reacted. i wonder what we would do when the leader of the republican party only getting more virulent as the cancer, i'll call it the retiring republican congressman calls donald trump a cancer, only growing in sort of size and strength. when you can change the perception of -- as carol leonnig just said, incontrovertible acts, things we saw with our own eyes and i remember donald trump saying early in the presidency, don't believe what you see, don't believe what you hear, believe me. he said it in early 2017. is this just the culmination of that command? >> yeah. yes, culmination and happy friday, nicolle. >> hi.
>> it is the culmination of a whole career. i mean donald trump was -- has been a pathological but also machiavellian liar for his entire career before he became president into the presidency. this thing, it is the salesman's gift, right, or curse, whatever you want to call it. i mean we know tycoons, aspiring tycoons, people who want to be players in new york society, people who want to -- who got a bridge to sell you, you know, people who play that game from the most legitimate to the least legitimate. they believe their own bs. they can spin just endless spools of it, endless spools of bs, and that capacity, that power gets them rich sometimes, sometimes gets them into political office, and donald trump got him -- he's less rich than he says he is but still rich by american standards and it ultimately made his
president. he learned over time there was very little penalty for lying, there were a lot of rewards for lying. so, yes, this is the end state of that is where we are now. i think the only answer to it in the end is to beat it and beat them. i think there's not going to be -- there's longer term big questions about how the information ecosystem and the way it meshes with the free market, the way capitalism at least is practiced in america, in the western world right now, how it has created incentives for the choose-your-own-adventure alternative facts, one side of that being populated by misinformation, disinformation, propaganda, lies, insidious , pernicious and ultimately corrupting of not just individuals but the entire democratic experiment here in the united states. those are large questions, like ph.d. level questions, way over my head. i will tell you what you have to do about it to keep the republic is you got to beat it. you got to win elections at the
local level, at the state level, at the federal level. you got to win congressional electorates. you got to go into the mid-terms and beat it as this party has become captured by donald trump and that misinformation, the disinformation, the lies and propaganda has to be beaten. it has to be beaten soundly at the only place that matters, at the polls. then it has to be beaten again in 2024 whether he's on the ballot or not. that's not even going to solve it immediately. but without that this is the end of america is what it is. but i think there's big fights to have here and fights to be won. if those fights are won, it gives the side of democracy a fighting chance to win the longer fight, which is to keep america the way i think we -- the way it was founded and the way it has been in its best of days rather than its worst. >> i mean wow and yes. matthew dowd, i wonder your thoughts on how to do that? >> well, first, great to be here with y'all, especially with john and carol and you, nicolle,
obviously. i mean first of all the idea that they're celebrating january 6th, i just have to pause a minute. the idea that they're celebrating that event on january 6th to me is exactly akin if folks got together and celebrated 9/11 and the 19 tourists that flew planes to new york, the pentagon and the field in pennsylvania. it is the same exact thing. if somebody stood out there and wanted to celebrate that we would say these people are out of control, they need to be arrested. so the idea they're celebrating an insurrection is already disturbing enough as it is. i agree with john completely on this. the only way we'll get through this is -- and it is not just them. it is the republican party, and the difference between what has happened in our history and today is for our history there's been fringe crazy conspiracy elements in both political parties, but there were guardrails in place and the people in those parties, not always 100% perfectly, were able
to sort of limit the impact they have. the problem today is all of those fringe conspiracy elements have consolidated in one legacy party, one legacy party. call it whatever banner you are on, white supremacy, domestic terrorism, denial of the truth, whatever it is, but they've consolidated and taken over one of our legacy parties in a system that is contingent on two, you know, somewhat enlightened political parties. we no longer have two enlightened political parties that have the interests of the country at hand. so that is a difference we have never had before, where an entire political party that holds half the offices in the country has been taken over by this element. so what alternative do we have? we, you, everybody on the program, we can tell the truth. we can call people to action. in the end the only way this gets fixed is if the republican party from the top to the bottom suffers devastating defeat, because what has happened so
far is they have not suffered the consequences enough for this to stop. any time you have this element in our country, it is beaten when it is eliminated or you identify it and you completely remove it, remove the cancer from it. if that hasn't happened, and actually the cancer has been adopted as some positive thing by the gop in this country, when it festers, it grows, it grows, it grows, and you add in a consolidated legacy party of these folks that have no interest in the common good and no interest in the ideals of the constitution, coupled with a network, cable network, fox news and other networks who are radicalizing people by lying to them. it is not just lying to them. they're radicalizing people. there is a -- you can connect the dots to what happened on january 6th and what happened in any number of places around the country where people were injured, people died and all of that, to the radicalization of this. if this was islamic terrorism we
would all know it, the fbi would be involved in it shall everybody would know and we would trace it back to the people that radicalized them. the final thing i will say is obviously the people that are participating in this need to be dealt with, held accountable and all of that. but in the end the real people that should be held accountable, these people are being lied to over and over and over again. donald trump and tucker carlson, they're elitist snobs that wouldn't share their quiche in a fancy restaurant any time with these people. they don't care about these people. they wouldn't defend them. they wouldn't spend money to help them. they wouldn't do any of that. but until people like tucker carlson, donald trump, kevin mccarthy are held fundamentally accountable for the radicalization, and fox news, radicalization of a segment of the american public we will have this with us. i agree with john. the next step in this process is the democrats have to figure out a way to coalesce together, unify as much as they possibly can with republicans,
independents and democrats, and beat the republicans soundly, from president down to sheriff. >> carol, i have asked you about republicans who used to care about terrorism and security, and i want to know if any republicans in the weeks since the ex-president described domestic terrorists as the same threat to our homeland as foreign terrorists were, do you think from your conversations covering the events around january 6th and everything that has ensued that any of them view extremism as a threat and just won't say it or do you think they're in denial that it is a threat? i mean their actions suggest they don't see it that way, right? they killed the bipartisan commission, mcconnell and mckrargtie both whipping votes to kill it. then the select mightie with the -- committee with a co-chair. but do they not see the threat, not believe the threat, not believe the fbi?
where are they on the threat posed by violent extremism? >> nicolle, the correct and monolithic answer to your question is in the main, heck, yeah. heck, yeah, they know that this is bologna. heck, yeah, they know that domestic extremism is a real threat to our country. a threat not just to individual americans, a threat to the republic. you know, ben franklin's line, it is a republic if you can keep it, we're teetering. those folks know this. not every single one. there are individual republicans who clearly, you know, have gotten themselves whipped up into this frame of mind where they absorb and promote, but also believe and have ago -- accepted some of the conspiracy theories about antifa and the deep state trying to hurt donald trump and keep him from his rightful, quote, unquote, second
term, even though it was the most carefully monitored and most thoroughly reviewed election in american history and was not rigged. your question is so important buss when you know as a republican that domestic extremism is a threat and you continue to parrot some of it, what are you doing for america? you are sinking it. you are helping sink it. it is really frightening. i mean some of the terror -- forgive me. some of the conspiracies that are being pushed by tucker carlson, for example, really do -- and i second matt's not emotion but his analysis about isis. some of tucker carlson's claims have the same kind of playbook as a commander in islamic radicalization organization. you know, reach out to people. make them afraid. make them angry and feel that they're being dismissed.
make them join you because they're isolated, and join you in this coo-coo for cocoa puffs theory. to say that fbi operatives were the ones that launched that is just so wrong headed. again, i would turn you to the documents, the fbi's own documents, the words of the individuals they've interviewed, transcribed interviews in which rioters explain they came, donald trump asked them to come, they were going to stop the election certification because the president needed them. by the way, they pushed some officers or assaulted some officers along the way. they are providing that information. >> it is amazing. i mean i think just two other thoughts. i mean donald trump could have pardoned them all. i mean to matt dowd's point, he doesn't care about them. donald trump could have pardoned them all on his way out.
there were, i think, 16 days after the insurrection before he left other. he handed out plenty of other pardons. you know, i think it is a remarkable, a remarkable state of affairs when all three of you can find parallels to the threat we faced from al qaeda on 9/11. unbelievable. you have all blown my mind. given me chills and have me hankering for a mommy bev ranch. thank you for starting us off this hour. after the break, the republican congressman on twitter for his statement about afghan refugees. plus, russian dissident navalny's plan to undermine vladimir putin in russia's election getting under way today. how donald trump cost taxpayers $1.7 million more even after he was out of office. "deadline: white house" after a quick break. don't go anywhere. at usaa, we've been called too exclusive. because we were created for officers. but as we've evolved with the military, we've grown to serve all who've honorably served.
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one republican congressman sparking outrage overnight for his statement that afghan refugees should not be brought to the united states. montana congressman matt rosendale tweeting this. i have advocated that we should try to settle these individuals in other countries around afghanistan that share their values and culture, especially if we cannot ensure proper vetting. to be clear, this tweet is over 75 total afghan refugees that his state is receiving. sadly, but these xenophobic sentiments are not exclusive to hip. the app is reporting despite
overwhelming bringing afghan refugees to the states, there is a cynical push by trump supporters to use the culture ward. quote, the former trump officials are writing position papers, appearing on conservative television outlets and meeting privately with gop lawmakers, all in an effort to turn the collapse of afghanistan into an opportunity to push a hard line immigration coverage. joining our coverage, thank you for joining us today. >> thank you for having me. >> first in your view, what is owed to the afghan refugees through extraordinary difficult circumstances make their way to our country? >> what is owed to them is what we promised. we promised if you protect the united states the united states would protect you. now, what we're doing -- actually, what congressman matt rosendale and others are doing is we're basically going back on our words and endangering our
national security because if other people, other countries we should get involved with in a war don't believe we're going to follow by our word then they're not going to help us. they're not going to have the on-the-ground intelligence we need. at the same time this is a very cynical and bigoted move by the representative. he knows that many of these -- most of them have gone through extensive vetting, and in a state like montana, as big as they are, they can certainly take 75 refugees that have been helpful to the united states and its work. >> and the public is where you are. 68% of all americans, as you know, 68% of all americans don't agree on very much. i don't get to read that number very often. 68% of all americans support the united states taking in refugees fleeing afghanistan after security screening. it includes 56% of republicans. how do you keep that support there to make sure that the resettlement is successful? >> well, the way we keep the
support is we show the human nature of this. we also have all of the -- you know, refugees aligned with and talk to the people that they helped. you know, i know many afghan refugees that have come here that were friends and allies and were interpreters. some of them actually met up and have moved here specifically to live closer to the men and women that they served with. we need to humanize and teach, you know, people that this is a strong relationship and also that refugees do make this country great. we have a strong history, a bipartisan history whether it is cuban refugees, whether it is vietnamese refugees that have really created great businesses, created great families, have become part of the fabric of the united states. this is an addition, not a subtraction. takes shame that republicans are losing their way because they used to have such a rich history and support of refugees and refugee resettlement in this country. >> a high-level republican resignation because of the toxic stew, i believe he called it a cancer that trump has on the party. is it your view that trump's
grip on the republican party is getting stronger, weaker or about the same? >> stronger. you know, i have a lot of republican friends here in arizona and they're, you know, fiscal conservatives that have been strong, you know, advocates for constitutional protections, everything else. they feel that this party has really left them. at this point it is -- you know, the trump republican party is becoming smaller and smaller but more virulent and that becomes very dangerous because instead of having two parties that can work together you only have one party that is, you know, i would say the party of sanity, us, the democrats. what is left are the trump republican party which believes in conspiracy, qanon and is supportive of things such as the january 6th insurrection. >> yeah. >> something i think in the end we should all be afraid of. it is a really sad, sad day we are going from reagan/bush party to what is -- i think is a trump party. >> and, you know, it extends obviously to covid and to the
effort to continue the fruitless search that bill barr and chris krebs and other republicans failed at, and that's the host for voter fraud. the fraud-it as it was coined by some of my guest, efforts to scrutinize the voters and the vote in pennsylvania are ongoing and commencing. what do you have to say after watching or having some inside knowledge about what happened in arizona? >> well, number one, we had one of the cleanest, safest elections that the state of arizona has ever had with the most participation that was certified by republicans, governor ducey, the board of supervisors of maricopa county which is 4-1, republican. number one. number two, this is a scam. donald trump has been raising money off this, has not sent any money to the audit. the gop here has been raising money, has not done anything on the audit. they've done nothing to help this fake audit.
at the end of the day they keep on saying they need to put the report out, they need to put the report out and keep on extending it, much like the colts will extend the end days or whatever the colts' prediction is. it is going to continue. what is going to happen in pennsylvania we will see it again. they will come up with miscellaneous reasons why something was off. they will announce it and then retract it a couple of days ago and raise money and continue doing that. this is a sham but also it destroys the integrity of politics, of people voting and wanting to vote. i think it is going to hurt republicans and hurt republicans in tend because there will be republicans not going to vote in some of the close elections because their leaders told them you shouldn't even count the vote. as much as i think i would benefit from that, i don't think it is good for the overall system and i hope with republicans understand that. >> you have a very good dog over your left shoulder. next time i will ask you your secret for keeping the dog quiet. i never mastered that, 18 months in the basement. congressman, thank you so much for spending some time with us. >> thank you for your time. thank you for understanding.
after the break, why alexei navalny's plan to take on vladimir putin at the ballot box is being hampered today by u.s. tech companies. we'll explain. most reliable network by rootmetrics. and our customers rated us #1 for network quality in america according to j.d. power. number one in reliability, 16 times in a row. most awarded for network quality, 27 times in a row. proving once again that nobody builds networks like verizon. that's why we're building 5g right, that's why there's only one best network. what happens when we welcome change? we can make emergency medicine possible at 40,000 feet. instead of burning our past for power, we can harness the energy of the tiny electron. we can create new ways to connect. rethinking how we communicate to be more inclusive than ever. with app, cloud and anywhere workspace solutions,
moment, seen as an opportunity for putin to cement his grip on power or maybe not. supporters of his chief critic, jailed opposition leader alexei navalny have a plan. it is called smart voting. it is a tactical voting app that organizers users around candidates most likely to defeat those who are pro-kremlin across each of russia's 225 electoral districts, whether the voter agrees with that person's policies per se or not. that way putin's cronies run up against a surge of votes for their chief competitors, whoever they are. regardless of party. optimally the strategy would result in a purge of pro-putin politicians. that was the plan anyway. this morning we learned both google and apple have removed the navalny app from their online stores. it was the result of a pressure campaign from, you can guess who, the russian government who accused the tech companies of -- wait for it -- election interference. joining our coverage, ben rhodes, former deputy national
security adviser to president obama. lucky for us an msnbc contributor. ben, you have spent time with navalny. talk about this effort, what it was designed to do and whether it could still have an impact. >> yeah, this is incredibly important. this concept of smart voting is one that's been in the works for years. it is based on the insight that what putin does is tries to divide the opposition. in some cases he encourages different types of opposition parties to get involved so the opposition vote is split among different parties. what navalny is saying, look, we have an existential threat to our democracy. we need to put a big tent over all of the opposition that believes the most important thing for russia is to reduce the power of vladimir putin and his political party, united russia. we will make it so it is easy for you to understand, if that is your principle interest as a voter you can understand does the liberal have the best chance in the race, does the communist have the best chance in this
race? however it is, we will send a message we do not support the direction putin is taking us in. clearly vladimir putin is very, very scared of that strategy given the crackdown we have seen on navalny himself, his organization and now with the complicity of these u.s. tech companies the smart voting app that was going to help make this a possibility. >> and why did american tech companies succumb to pressure? >> i mean i think across the board, nicolle, our tech companies have to determine when is the profit not worth it. you know, when is it just not worth compromising here. you have heroic, courageous people who have basically put their lives on the line to pursue strategies like this, to give russians a chance and a hope for some glimmer of democracy. after all of the work those people did to develop this strategy and to publicize this strategy and they've been talking about it for a very long time and all of the work that goes into not just this app but evaluating who has the best
chance in which piece of this election or at the last minute for these companies to bend to the dictate of the russian government, let's just call it putin's inner circle essentially, it is just not -- because they want to keep a russian market share? come on. you know, the people who assumed the risk here are navalny who is sitting in prison and a lot of his associates who have been rounded up and those who fled russia. >> it has a nauseating echo to tech companies' complicity in anti-democratic movements. obviously no one under threat the way alexei navalny is, and i'm not making that parallel, but to tech companies not having the stomach to take an aggressive stand to democracy and democratic movements over the alternative feels like a global problem. >> it is a huge global problem. it is one of the most important things that contributes to
authoritarianism around the world. look, we talked a lot about facebook and how they've been responsible for disinformation, and that's undermined democracy everywhere including in the united states. the reality is in some of these places where the authoritarianism is front and center like russia, this is not a subtle move. this is saying we want you to pull down the app threatens the capacity of our candidates to win the election, that's all it is. it was created by russia. it is not like google and apple created the app to do the work. navalny did the work on the app. tech companies have to make decisions in a lot of different countries about what compromises they're willing to make. ultimately, are there a core set of values that allow them to evaluate trade-offs in situations like this. >> i know you have to run, but tell us quickly what you will be watching for in the elections. >> i mean i'm going to be watching if after all of the
demoralization in the arrest and imprisonment of navalny and the round up of his network and now this app, do russians turn out? do they show through their votes and their courage they're willing to buck putin and his party to send a message? they know this election is not free and fair. they know that this election has one inevitable outcome and that's vladimir putin and his party are still in power, but can they send a message this is not what russians want? we always hear about putin's approval ratings. a man with high approval ratings wouldn't go to this length to subjugate his opposition. we will be watching, not just for a close election because it is so vastly intimidated and rigged, the circumstances, but can russians send a message there are still people there who believe in democracy and i think there are. >> thank you so much for spending time with us. we will come back to you on monday to see what happens. coming up for us, the $1.7 million bill we the people are
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♪ ♪ wondering what actually goes into your multivitamin? at new chapter, its' innovation, organic ingredients, and fermentation. fermentation? yes. formulated to help you body really truly absorb the natural goodness. new chapter. wellness, well done. the disgraced, twice-impeached former president has been out of office now for just about eight months. luckily, we haven't seen too much of him or really any of his former administration officials. no jared, no ivanka, no steven
mnuchin, no mark meadows. i almost forgot what he looks like. we are learning today from some brand-new reporting in "the washington post" that you, we, all of us, the taxpayers have been paying for their extra secret service protection. new analysis from "the washington post" on spending documents shows that in a highly unusual order trump ordered six months of extra protection for his four adult children and high-level officials like steve mnuchen, mark meadows and former national security adviser robert o'brien. all together all that security totaled $1.7 million, a bill footed by the american taxpayers who continue to pay for the ex-president and his associate. let's bring in david farenthold. donny deutsch is here, host of the online podcast. david, first of all tell people what is standard for ex-cabinet
officials, adult children for ex-presidents. >> what is extraordinary is that they don't get secret service protection after the presidency is over. usually the only ones who keep it typically is the president, the president's spouse, children up to 16. outgoing presidents have extended for children in college but nothing like trump. donald trump jr. is 43, the other children in their 20s and 30s. it is a totally different sort of people trump gave free around-the-clock protection to. >> why did he do it then? >> he has not given any official explanation at all. there's no president directive. there's no public order. there's no nothing that explains why it happened. frankly, if you look in the law i'm not sure where the legal authority was for this at all. the lou doesn't create a presidential ability to give six
months more. we reached out and said, did you ask for this and when you got it why didn't you turn it down? the only person that responded was steve mnuchen. he said, i didn't ask for this. once i got it, i didn't turn it down because of some vague warning from security officials. he's the only one we ask would you give the money back, would you repay it? he said, yeah, i may repay certain parts of it but it hasn't said what. >> donny deutsch, let's stipulate if there are any extraordinary threats unprecedented in the history of the american presidency donald trump and his children and cabinet should have protection. barring that, w-t-h. >> you know, david's reporting is always great. the thing i found particularly egregious was the mnuchen part that he's getting hundreds and hundreds of thousands worth of security to go to the middle east to raise money for a venture fund.
it is just -- look, what is built into donald trump's brand is he rips not only the taxpayers off, his own voters off. he had to return $112,000 because like a bad magazine subscription, you had to go into the fine print to find you weren't going to be charged every month nor the same thing. i love to give the donald trump slime ball facts. i read recently in his bedminster golf club he got millions of dollars worth of tax breaks because he had a to get on the property and claimed it was a farm. this is the stuff i think -- you've got -- >> i have chickens and i don't do that. donny, let's talk about the trump family as grifters. they have a lot of money. they're rich by any assessment and they act like, you know, small town thieves. why? >> because there's a sense of sbielment. it is the trump name and i have never met a more entitled human being than donald, his kids the same way.
smug jared is the same way. not only that, it is like what we can get away with we will. the basic moral compasses we use on a daily basis to make decisions about what we do and how we do it is we know where it stands, this entire family, and the off spring and spawn is no different donald himself. >> david, what is the sort of vehicle for getting to the bottom of this, one whether there are extraordinary threats against steve mnuchin and mark meadows, i'm sure a vast majority of majors have no idea what they look like. and making sure the taxpayer isn't sort of hit up for their protection indefinitely. >> well, as far as we can tell from looking at the records it looks like the protection for these folks really did stop after six months. that said i think it is important to get to the bottom of was there any justification for, "a," why these people needed special protection, and "b," if they did why they couldn't provide it for themselves. steve mnuchin i think his net
worth is in the multi-million dollars, and why can't that man pay for his own security if he needs it, why can't ivanka and jared pay for their security if they need it. the trump kids like their father would go to trump properties and then charge the secret service to follow. those charges aren't that much in the grand scheme of the $2.4 million budget of the eke is secret service, but such an interesting moral question. if you want to save the taxpayers money, here's your chance, give them a room free at the hotel and they never did. >> how much was donald trump's illusion he was still playing president? >> i don't think it's dilution. he's a grifter as said earlier. this is actually by far the least offensive thing donald trump has done to a broadcast, you start at the tippy top with
his -- running cover for insurrectionists and then we get to bread crumbs at the end where it almost seems juvenile and comical. it's the spectrum of which these last two years the trump grotesqueness, as i said it starts up here and -- >> starts with getting people killed by insurrectionists and political violence and then getting his own voters killed by the pandemic and then just fleecing the taxpayers. we're happy to highlight it. thank you both very much for spending some time with us. happy friday. a quick break for us. we'll be right back. a quick bres we'll be right back. not my uncle, though. he's taking trulicity for his type 2 diabetes and now, he's really on his game. once-weekly trulicity lowers your a1c by helping your body release the insulin it's already making. most people reached an a1c under 7%. plus, trulicity can lower your risk of cardiovascular events. it can also help you lose up to 10 pounds.
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