tv The Reid Out MSNBC September 23, 2021 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT
you get all the cool interviews. i need to hang out with your booker so i can be cool. >> any time. any time. >> okay, we'll make it an appointment. we'll make an appointment and then we'll consult on it. we're working on it. thank you, man. >> love it. >> have a good evening. cheers. all right, good evening, everyone. thank you so much for joining us tonight. we begin "the reidout" with an anniversary of sorts. one year ago today we got this warning sign that donald trump would not go quietly if he lost the 2020 election. . >> will you commit to making sure there is a peaceful transfer of power after the election? >> well, we're going to have to see what happens, you know that. iowa been complaining very strongly about the ballots, and the ballots are a disaster. >> i understand that. but people are rioting. do you commit to making sure that there is a peaceful transfer of power? >> we want to get rid of the ballots and we'll have a very peaceful -- there won't be a transfer, frankly. there will be a continuation. >> trump made no secret of his intent, and we now know how
close he came to stealing that election. but while trump sought of office, the big lie endures. and without accountability, free and fair elections in this country remain in jeopardy. now the select committee investigating january 6 is trying to provide that accountability. nbc news reports that in response to their sweeping requests, investigators have received documents from seven executive branch agencies. six of the committee's members made clear to politico that they're prepared to fly past any obstacles they encounter, mindful of trump's past successes at stymieing congressional investigators. next, they're readying a wave of subpoenas according to chairman bennie thompson who said a list of targets would be released as soon as this week. the guardian reports that according to a source familiar with the goings on, the targets could include former white house chief of staff mark meadows, his deputy dan scavino, and former
trump campaign manager brad parscale. not a week goes by that we don't learn something new about trump's effort to overturn the election by any means necessary. the latest revelation that trump and his lawyer pushed pence to nullify the vote in seven states represents nothing less than an attempted coup. and that effort is still ongoing today. a full ten months after the election. the right wing movement to infiltrate our electoral system state by state continues with the long delayed fake audit in arizona coming to an end. republicans in the arizona senate are expected to unveil the results tomorrow. those results, which will eemergency from a chaotic, flawed system brimming with cheese dust and conspiracy theories don't actually matter. this fraudit was never anything real. and yet the damage has been done. every day these optics sustained and normalized the big lie. that was the point, allowing
republicans to now call foul every time that an outcome does not go their way. which is happening already in wisconsin and in pennsylvania. next, the big lie takes on a newer, more menacing form that even future elections are not to be trusted. and that is the most dangerous place for a democracy to be. joining me now is alex wagner, co-host and executive producer of showtime's "the circus." and charlie sykes, editor at large of the bulwark, an msnbc columnist. charlie, i have to start with you. as we take a look at some of the people behind the scenes on the ellipse of january 6, this is sort of the realtime denouement of the attempted coup. this is the chief of staff for the president of the united states backstage, if we have that video, yukking it up with don jr. there they are. and this was just before the march to the capitol that we know how that end ed. but even before that, alex, adam
serwer at the atlantic, he goes through all the different ways that these people tried to steal our election, tried to pressure secretary of state to not certify the election, trying to pressure state legislatures to overturn the results, trying to get the courts to overturn the results, trying to pressure mike pence to overturn the results. and when all else fails, doing that mob action. do you have the sense that i do that this -- because they tried so many different ways before january 6 that this was all just a dress rehearsal for what they're going to try to do again? >> oh, joy, i mean the only thing we know is that the republican party will stop at nothing to hold on to power. it began with redistricting, which looks so innocent compared to where we are now. and we're at the stage -- the only metaphor i can use, it's like watching a body and its immune system get attacked by a metastasizing cancer. and i think the audit that you mentioned, these are the next --
adam serwer's list is a laundry list of what we would call the kitchen sink, ways to push anti-democratic forces to decertify a fair and free election. and i think what we're going see in the next couple of months, i have talked to state legislators in the republican party. they say these audits are just to make sure that everyone can regain their american elections. it is gaslighting. it is to undermine public confidence in those elections and move all the levers of power, change the way elections are conducted in this country. and thus far it has proven to be a remarkably successful strategy. and that is something that should terrify everybody who cares about the preservation of american democracy. this effort is not stopping and could very well succeed. >> and the thing, charlie, because you had steve bannon, who was previously famous for making breitbart the home of the so-called alt white which is
nationalists dressed up in suits, need to focus on january 6, because at minimum, we're just going kill the biden administration in its crib. so that part has succeeded. you a big plurality, if not a majority of republicans who do not believe that joe biden is a legitimate president. >> right. >> you start with that you've also got a big plurality, if not a majority of republicans who don't believe any election they lose is legitimate, and who don't believe anyone who votes for democrats is a legitimate voter. and so the only way to supposedly make them feel confidence in the election is to make it so that those people that they don't think are legitimate can vote. and if those people even get to vote, i don't trust elections. i only trust elections when i win, when my side wins. if that's the way one party feels, i don't see how you pull back and have a proper democracy. >> no, i agree with everything that alex said. look, we are in the midst of a constitutional crisis right now. january 6 was not a one-off.
it's happening in realtime in broad daylight that you do have this attack on the election. and the agenda should be obvious by now. it is, of course, to discredit the results of the 2020 election based on the big lie. it is to delegitimize the biden presidency going forward, and it's to lay the groundwork for possibly doing this in 2024. reuters did a survey of the republicans running for secretaries of state, and the majority of them are not willing to say that this election was legitimate. and these are the key players, these are the people who stood solidly against the attempts to steal the election, but what donald trump is doing is reshaping the republican party into a party that might be more willing to go along with this. there is certainly a party that is unwilling to stand up against it. and yes, the vast majority of republican voters now doubt the legitimacy of the election. but i have to tell you, this is where the deep cynicism comes
in. most of the elected officials know perfectly well that it's all a lie, that it's all bs. they know what they're doing, and they're telling themselves we're just going to throw out some boo bait to the bubbas. we're going to satisfy the base, but the reality is that they are undermining confidence in a democracy in a way that we have never seen in this country. and again, january 6 is not an historical event. it is an ongoing rolling assault on democracy. and people need to understand that. that it's not something in the rear view mirror. >> they don't have to believe it. fascism requires handmaidens too. they don't have to believe it. they just have to do it. let's talk about the democrats' response to it. politico reports that the timetable, alex, for this select committee, they're speeding it up. chairman bennie thompson said he hopes to complete the commission's inquiry by spring, which is actually kind of an earlier timeline than we originally thought. so let's say they do that. then what? because if you have an inquiry
that the other side will just simply dismiss, what do you expect the results of that inquiry to be in the real world? >> well, i mean, i can't tell you what's going to be -- i can't tell you what the results of the inquiry will be. >> or the impact, to the impact, yeah. >> i would just say the results -- look, they're moving expeditiously. they learned a lesson in the trump years, that the american public does not have an infinite attention span for this kind of stuff, especially when half the country females like the results are preordained. and i think the most sort of efficient line of argument is going to be the material that of these subpoenas and the testimonies that they requested. this is stuff we haven't seen before. and i think if you amass a body of evidence that is coming directly from the white house and from former white house officials, that could go some ways to bringing independents who are skeptical about biden's legitimacy, perhaps that can bring them over the line. but look, i think the ultimate goal is to make sure that the forces that are gathering, the gathering storm, if you will,
that is seeking to undermine the credibility of american elections stop in its track. the way you do that is pulling out the lies. so it begins well before january 6 that this commission could do a lot to move the center of gravity become to the center of the lies. and i think, again, if we use the metaphor of a metastasizing cancer, it's going to the center of that cancer. it's going to the tumor. >> yeah. >> and i think the democrats know that's in making sure that 2020 doesn't unfold like 2022 is not a reduction of big lies like 2020. >> i guess the bottom line question is, charlie, can that be done if there are not also indictments? because it is hard to believe that you could pull off an attempted coup without committing crimes. we know there are criminal investigations in georgia. we know there are obviously criminal investigations against the meatheads, the people who were storming the capitol and defecating in it. but if you don't have
prosecutions at a higher level, including donald trump, i wonder if there is no way that even the most damning possible report by this inquiry makes a difference if folks aren't actually prosecutors. there are real consequences for people with power. >> yeah, people ought to be prosecuted. of course it's going to be under the cloud of a possible future trump presidency where you would very clearly use his pardon power to wipe out those convictions. so the criminal justice system ought to be pursued, but it's a cram shoot. i think that what democrats need to understand is the magnitude of this threat and the fact that it is a legitimate use of their power to change the laws, for example, that will allow this kind of gamesmanship, were the kind of things that we saw in that john eastman memo, which by the way needs to get a lot more attention. they put it in writing. they put their coup plan in writing. we have it. i don't know why it's not on the front page of every newspaper in the country.
but ultimately, what congress is going to have to do is understand that, yes, there are really serious issues involved in the election, but there are much more grave issues involving who counts those votes, including the electoral college, the electoral act, which is a ridiculous piece of legislation in which mike pence might have abused. but i do think that legislative action is also going to be necessary to prevent this from happening, otherwise we are going to see this slow rolling disaster. i mean, imagine if the secretaries of state in places like georgia had gone along with donald trump as opposed to standing up against him, we would be living in a very different world, and i think we may find out what that world looks like. >> and i'm not so sure raffensperger given a second chance wouldn't go along with it, based on his new belief system he has adopted. i know why it's not on the front page of every book, because there is a normalizing trend when it comes to things republicanss do. alex wagner, charles sykes,
thank you very much. we are monitoring a news conference that has just begun in colliersville, tennessee, just outside of memphis after a mass shooting today at a supermarket. police say one person was killed and at least 13 injured, and that the suspect died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. if there are any new developments, we'll bring them to you. next on "the reidout," the high stakes game of chicken to avert a government shutdown and debt default with president biden pressuring moderate democrats to go on the record with what their spending priorities actually are. plus, you knew this was coming. republicans deciding that maybe it's time to end all vaccine mandates, measles, mumps, all of them. also, america's top haiti envoy resigns over the administration's deportation policy with republicans unable to resist their demagoguery on the issue. and tonight's absolute worst believes that rape victims should not be allowed to get abortions and that their pregnancies are partly their own fault. "the reidout" continues after this. s after this
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the situation in congress is chaotic, to say the least, as democrats juggle a bipartisan infrastructure bill, biden's build back better bill. republicans refuse to increase the debt ceiling and impending government shutdown. the white house is telling government agencies to prepare to indeed shut down starting october 1. that's just a little over a week from tonight. and while there is still a chance that democrats could pass a resolution to keep the government open, there is currently no agreement on avoiding an unprecedented default on our debt. meanwhile, there has been some progress on the infrastructure bills. senate majority leader chuck schumer and speaker nancy pelosi say they've come to an agreement on a, quote, framework for how to pay for reconciliation, but they haven't finalized a price tag or what policies stay in the bill. this comes after biden met with democrats yesterday saying the president asked him to come back with a concrete dollar figure
that he could support. let's just be clear. this isn't about dollars. it's about policies, which in the end are about values. as speaker pelosi said earlier today, "we the public deserve to know what these senators, from whatever camp they're in actually value." well, manchin made sure to note to reporters that he has big problems with the climate provisions in the bill. so values. indeed, we've spent a lot of time on this show on joe manchin's ties to big oil and big pharma and pretty much all of the groups who do not want this bill. but we tend to not spend as much time on kyrsten sinema, who like manchin has come out against the bill's price reforms. these are reforms that checks note 88% of the country supports. so why would a sitting senator, a democratic senator be against this? well, what does senator sinema value? oh, right, money.
kyrsten sinema who keizer health news once called a pharma favorite has received $500,000 from the pharmaceutical industry throughout her career. according to a liberal nonprofit group, she has received a total of $923,000 from the industry groups leading the charge against the bill, which includes that money from big pharma. and the intercept reports that a dark money group, no labels is already celebrating her for derailing the reconciliation bill by decouncildecoupling it infrastructure bill. i'm joined by suhail kapoor on capitol hill. take us inside the negotiations and what these -- particularly the moderate senators are claiming they want. because all we're hearing is no, no, no. have they started to talk what it is they want in the bills? >> joy, there is certainly pressure on these centrist democrats to come up with a
dollar figure that they're for and start narrowing down in terms of policies communicating what they are willing to support that was president biden's message to senator manchin that is something that a number of democrats that i've spoken to, senators and aides are a little confused in terms of what senator manchin is ultimately willing to support. now according to my sources, senator sinema has communicated privately to committee chairs and to leadership. some of what she opposes, some of what she supports. she has not been public about this. so there is some confusion at least about where she stands. she says she is opposed to the $3.5 trillion figure. what is she willing to support? at the end of the day, joy, this is the reason that progressives in the house are holding this infrastructure bill up because those two manchin and sinema have a lot invested in that. they co-wrote it. it will validate their view of bipartisanship in the senate. they can go home and brag about that. progressives don't want that infrastructure bill to pass until reconciliation passes because they're worried that those two in particular would have no use for reconciliation if a reconstruction bill were done and signed into law.
sentist democrats in the house and the senate, their aides will swear up and down that they have in intention of killing reconciliation, that they actually do want this to pass. there are provisions in that, the child tax that everyone supports, but the rest don't support them. that's where it stands right now. >> just to follow up on one thing, the fight about the dollar figures or about policies in the bill? because if it's just about dollars and cents, that doesn't event feel like a morally relevant fight. is it about the money in the price tag or about policies in the bill? >> it is absolutely about both. now the dollar figure and the price tag is more about political positioning. $3.5 trillion was the agreement, or at least i guess the handshake agreement that progressives and not rats came to, but some of the centrists say that's a bit much. they want it to go lower. there are policy fight taos. there are real differences of opinion, primarily around the prescription drug issue. you just alluded to that differences of opinion between democratic senators and house democrats as well in terms of where to go on that. at the end of the day, democrats' hopes of surviving an
onslaught in the 2022 election, joy, is going to depend on what happens with this bill. this is the last major train leaving the station on president biden's economic agenda. everything after this will have to go through a filibuster which means it will likely need mitch mcconnell's sort. this is the last effort to get something major they can campaign on. >> sahil kapur, thank you very much very much. really appreciate your porting. a member of the house judiciary committee. let's go through this piece by piece, congressman. starting with this idea of the price tag. because, you know, money and politics is simply a statement of our values, right? when the government wants to, they can throw trillions of dollars at the airline industry or whatever industrial they want, the banks. they've got the money. this is a very wealthy country. so are you hearing anything from what moderates are saying that speaks to what their values are, what policies they support, or are they just talking money? >> well, joy, it's great to be with you.
and i think you've really sort of pinpointed the challenge here. i mean we want to hear from our conservative democratic colleagues, because these are not moderates. let's be clear. the vast majority, nearly all of house democrats are in support of this president's broadly supported economic agenda. it is an agenda for the people, as house democrats say. there is a reason why you only hear a handful of names. these folks are not moderates. i would never malign my moderate colleagues who similarly want to see universal child care in the way i do. we just sent a letter that i led signed by 106 people to pelosi and to schumer. 106 meshes signed this later, include josh gottheimer saying we need to keep it in the final reconciliation bill. we can do this thing, but we need more information from our colleagues who are raising concerns, hypothetical concerns without addressing the substance of whatever the critique may be. >> let me play some of your
fellow progressives talking -- maybe you don't call them moderates, but whoever they are, holding the whole caucus hostage. >> the big problem is it's big pharma and special interests who don't want to have to pay for this. >> what we are running into is enormous opposition from the drug companies because they don't want to have us lower the cost of prescription drugs. the health care industry surely does not want us to expand medicare to cover dental, eyeglasses and hearing aids. >> we are currently being held hostage by conservative democrats who are doing the bidding of big pharma, big oil and wall street. >> this is -- i think this is what concerns folks who are watching this bill, because it doesn't matter if it was $3 trillion bill or a $20 trillion bill. the point is who doesn't want it? and kyrsten sinema has taken a lot of money from chamber of commerce type groups, big pharma. she even got an internship, an $1100 intern hardship at a
winery who's owner just happens to be the co-founder of tpg capital, one of the largest private equity firms in the world which spent more than $3 million lobbying lawmakers over the last three years. you have pharma launchesing seven-figure ad campaigns to try to stop this bill, going on tv. everything they can to stop this bill. at this point, are you concerned that it isn't even these whatever they are, moderates, conservative democrats, but it's really big pharma, the chamber of commerce, big oil that joe manchin loves so much and doesn't really want to do climate change stuff. is that who is really directing the opposition to this bill? >> joy, i think we are seeing the worst of what americans believe about congress play out in this moment. when you see people opposing simply the ability of medicare, the federal government to negotiate down the price of prescription drugs, something that is supported overwhelmingly by both democrats and republicans, it's clear, then,
that people aren't playing district politics, they're not looking out for the folks in their district. and then of course that begs the question who then are they looking out for. look, i get it. i've got an incredible pharmaceutical company in my own district. but here is the thing. i'm going to vote for the people. and that's what i want and would urge my colleagues to do who are trying to block, again, this president's broadly popular economic agenda. i do believe that we will unify together as democrats. it's a shame that so much of this drama has been played out in the public square so to speak, but i do believe as with the american rescue plan and with other things that we will rally around an agenda that allows us to meet this moment. we're talking about the expansion of medicare. we're talking about universal child care. we're talking about climate action to prevent another hurricane ida from devastating communities throughout america. this is what we can do under unified control of the federal government, and this is what democrats i would submit will do in the coming days. >> and it's what y'all ran on. i will note for our audience,
the poor people's campaign bishop barber requested a meeting with the white house. they want to go straight to the top and talk to the white house about this. and i can just imagine what they're going to say. but mondaire jones, congressman, thank you for fighting the good fight. appreciate you being here this evening. come back any time. the new but strengthening alliance between the far right and anti-vaccine fanatics pose as growing threat not only to the medical professionals literally facing death threats, but to anyone trying to seek care at hospitals that are packed with unvaccinated covid patients. more on that next. stay with us. ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ before we talk about tax-smart investing, what's new? -audrey's expecting... -twins!
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state senator manny diaz says it may be time to review mandates for other vaccines in schools, including measles, mumps, and rubella. but add in oh, there is a difference between the covid vaccine and those in his words that are proven to work. in other words, he is inviting measles outbreaks on top of a pandemic. i guess while also spreading misinformation on the covid vaccine. yes, we're doomed. this comes as the killer administration of ron desantis continues to try to turn florida's children into guinea pigs for a statewide herd immunity experiment, perhaps to benefit his top donor who is heavily invested in a monoclonal antibody care called regeneron, maybe. the palm beach county board followed to follow the state surgeon's rule for anti-vaccine exposure. this feels like the sum of all fears, revisiting whether or not there should be mandatory measles, mumps, and rubella vaccines in florida. your thoughts, dr. ashby.
>> well, good evening, joy. it's always a pleasure to be here and bless up. >> bless up. >> congressman diaz needs to close his trap, and he needs to stay in his lane and, again, leave the public health and the science to the professionals. again, we have another politician sticking his nose where it doesn't need to be. we've done an incredible job with basically eliminating the scourge of measles, mumps, rubella, and other previous pathogens that looked at our society for decades before vaccination campaigns. now he wants to roll that back not just adults and elderly citizens, but children who won't be protected by the herd immunity if you start to roll those back. so he's playing politics, per
usual, and now he is going to be on the covid pandemic and looking at other successful campaigns to try to roll those back for what? for political points. and i'm tired of it. >> you know what frightens me for my former state it is feels like republicans are using the state as a giant sort of herd immunity experiment. they want to do sort of -- make it a free fire zone for any kind of illness, for any kind of viruses and saying come and get us. and it worries me because i fear that part of it has to do with, you know, your governor being invested, you know. he's got some donors, they got some investments in what they think are cures and even in treatments. it scares me. but now you have on top of that somebody with all his harvard degrees who is coming in here, getting half a million dollars between the teaching gig he is going to get and being surgeon general to also push that herd immunity experiment. he is not a clinician. let's just be clear. he is not doing what you do.
he is not treating covid patients. he is not even the kind of doctor who treats covid patients. he is not an immimmunologyist. he is not a virologist. he has no expertise just because he has doctor in front of his name. does it frighten you that this man is now surgeon general and is saying kids who have been exposed to covid should be able the go maskless to school? >> well, you have the dr. ladaco, a harvard grad, a and you have myself who studied at princeton. at least princeton is still standing. between those two, they're giving harvard a bad name. >> i have harvard shame. >> sorry to hear that. peace be with you. you have these individuals who are coming out of these quote/unquote elite institutions who are highly educated, who are
willfully making decisions to -- for personal and political gain. and what dr. ladapo, what we've seen is if you actually listen to this guy, he is an intelligent, well thought out individual. and he elaborates on his points. and i agree with some points and i disagree with a lot of points. and he has allowed himself and his black skin and his stellar credentials to be used by right wing politicians and those with agendas. and as much as i want to root for him, i'm not going to root for somebody who's actually enabling someone like governor desantis and other politicians to put the public health and the public interests at risk for their own gain and that is the problem. he is a prop. and he doesn't realize that he -- what happened to dr.
rivkees who was the previous surgeon general who was mia throughout the entire pandemic, is going to happen to him. if he is going to be out there, he is going to be serving the interests of desantis. he is not going to tell desantis what he wants to do. desantis is going to tell him what he wants to do and he is going to use his credentials to validate his foolishness. and that's what we're seeing now. it's unfortunate that they're using this gentleman who benefitted from a lot of the sacrifices that our predecessors made who rebelled, who were killed, jailed, beat to put him in harvard, for him to then go out and serve against our interests. that's a pure slap in the face. >> it is indeed. it is indeed. i want to move on. you've talked about this on the show. just the pushback has gotten to be weird and dangerous against people like yourself who are just trying to give people basic health advice and trying to give people good advice so they can survive this pandemic. here are some reports. the billings gazette reporting that a patient has thrown his own feces at a doctor to punish
that doctor for talking about trying to get vaccinated. georgia public health reports a patient grabbed a nurse by her wrist and started kicking her in the ribs. in michigan, someone tried to run a health officer off the highway hours after he issued a mask mandate for schools. in texas, verbal abuse, name-calling, racial slurs at a dallas hospital. this is at the point now where the public has been so radicalized on the right that they're trying to hurt medical professionals for just saying you need to wear a mask and get vaccinated. is it that bad in miami, in south florida, in florida as well? >> well, joy, i haven't gotten death threats, but i've gotten threats and very negative messages directed at me. i mean, i am an advocate for the people. i don't care what party affiliation you have. i don't care what color you are. i'm all about protecting the sanctity of human life.
and so i'm going to do whatever it takes, even face threats. and yeah, i've seen it firsthand. people actually call my office and tell me to shut my mouth. and so people are so far gone that they don't even engage in dialogue. however, i am not pessimistic about americans and about the goodness of our citizens, because i have two offices. i have an office in miami. i have another one in port st. lucie. my port st. lucie office, which is about two hours north of miami actually has a lot of republicans who are trump supporters. and those patients, they love me. i love them. they will ride and die for me. but it's because we have that dialogue. they know that i'm serving in their best interests. they know i've been there through thick and thin. so we have to depend on folks without an agenda to guide our country for us to serve in our
best interests. and right now we have these villains basically who are serving their own agenda and americans are paying a price as a result. >> indeed. i wish we had more time. but i'm going just wish you well. be sayer out there, dr. ashby. thank you for all that you're doing, trying to save lives. it is a calling, a very godly calling. so i thank you for being here and for all that you do. dr. bernard ashby. thank you, my friend. breaking news. when we come back, new information on those subpoenas related to the january 6 insurrection and who might have been involved in trump world. that's right after the break. don't go anywhere. don't go anywhere.
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nbc news reports in some breaking news just moments ago the select committee investigating the january 6 insurrection has issued subpoenas to four of donald trump's closest aides and associates, all of whom were working with him in the days leading up to the insurrection. they include former chief of staff mark meadows and his
deputy dan scavino, as well as former defense department official kashyap patel and steve bannon. white house correspondent for the pbs news hour and moderator for pbs washington week and nbc national political reporter sahil kapur on capitol hill as well as glenn kirschner who is going to provide legal analysis for us in just a mifnlt i'll start with you, yamiche. the committee is moving pretty quickly. were we expecting these subpoenas to happen today? >> we were expecting for subpoenas to happen quickly because the chairman has said over and over again, that their work was important and that they were going to be moving quickly. it is really a list of people who are at the center of donald trump and this lie about the lie about the election. and if you read the letters to each one of these individuals, they're chock full of information saying we know -- we believe that you were near to the president on january 6.
we know that you were in touch with people, talking to people about january 6, talking to people about taking apart the certification and trying to stop on the certification of the votes. so this is really a game-changer moment. this is a moment where all of the talking really comes into -- into real focus here, because these individuals have said that they likely are going to try to have executive privilege and try to claim executive privilege. but these letters really state how serious this just got. this is going to be a political showdown to end all political showdowns. you can expect each one of these individuals to fight. but this committee clearly is not playing around. they know exactly what they want to get out of these individuals. >> absolutely. and i'm going to go to you, sahil. you've been on capitol hill, on another beat trying to see what's going on with these moderate democrats who are wrangling over the infrastructure bill. however, any word of any sort of any sort of response from the republican side of capitol hill
thus far? i mean, mark meadows is a former congressman, obviously, somebody very well-known on the hill. these are figures who were very well-known during the last four years of their work with donald trump. any response so far? >> no word that we have gotten yet, joy. now the subpoenas of course just dropped moments ago. this is brand-new, and this really illustrates the aggressive mandate that this committee believes it has to investigate all the events of january 6 as well as everything leading up to it. the second part is key because they want to stitch together a timeline, a version of events about what happened so this can never happen again. as yamiche points out, these are all individuals close to the former president and who have a lot of say into the events that led up to january 6 and the president's attempts to decertify and try to overturn the 2020 election which is important to note that he lost fair and square. this is the committee trying to get information from these individuals. and it's important to know there has been speculation out there, some possibility that subpoenas
could reach even members of congress. the committee is starting with these individuals closest to the former president. we had the most direct communication with. they might broaden the circle out from here, but this investigation just went to -- just took on a new turn. it's now in a new much more serious phase, joy. >> yeah, absolutely. glenn, let me read you a little bit. i'm looking here for the audience to see. i'm sorry to get these in front of the camera. i've got the subpoena -- the letters that have gone to mark meadows and to steve bannon. here is a little bit of what was written to mark meadows. and it says here, "it appears that you were with or in the vicinity of president trump on january 6, had communications with the president and others on january 6 regarding events at the capitol and are a witness regarding activities of that day. moreover, it has been reported that you engaged in multiple elements of the planning and preparation of effort to contest the presidential election and delay the counting of electoral votes in addition according to documents provided by the department of justice while you were the president's chief of
staff, you directly communicated with the highest officials at the department of justice requesting investigations into election fraud matters in several states. "we understand in the weeks after the november 2020 election, you contacted several state officials to encourage investigation of election fraud even after such allegations had been dismissed by state and federal courts. they add that more than one press report indicates you were in communication with organizers, organizers of the january 6th rally including they name amy cramer of women for america first. that is the letter to meadows. a little bit of a letter to bannon and it says here, for example, you have been identified as present at the willard hotel on january 5th, 2021, during an effort to persuade members of congress to block the certification of the election the next day and in relation to the other activities on january 6th you've also described -- you are also described as communicating with then president trump on december 30, 2020, and potentially other
occasions urging him to plan for and focus his efforts on january 6th. moreover, you were quoted as saying on january 5th that all hell is going to break loose tomorrow. what i just read from those letters, what does that say to you, glen kirchner about this investigation? >> let me try to rephrase and recast and summarize what you just said? what i heard as a former career prosecutor is that steve bannon and mark meadows, you may have a fifth amendment right against self-incrimination. here's what's going to happen, joy. there are several battles that will now play out, i predict. one, the folks that have been subpoenaed may try to invoke executive privilege but i suggest that dog won't hunt because what you just read, joy, makes it clear that there will be a robust crime fraud exception claim that will be
invoked to defeat executive privilege. what's the next battle that's going to be fought? will these people comply with the subpoena? we've seen prior administration officials thumb their noses at congressional subpoenas. we'll have to ask the question. has congress learned its lessons of the past by failing to aggressively try to enforce its subpoenas if witnesses refuse to comply. there are three ways they can enforce their own subpoenas. the final piece assuming we get these men, their butts in witness chairs before congress, will they invoke a fifth amendment right against self-incrimination? which they clearly will have just today, joy, as you pointed out, that steve bannon in a
january 5th war council meeting with giuliani and others said it's time to kill the biden presidency. if that doesn't earn him a marquee spot, i contend as supported by the evidence i don't know what does. >> this is very aggressive to issue subpoenas that quickly. they were going to go quick, this is quick. is there a sense how aggressive this committee plans to be about enforcing these subpoenas even if it means calling in the law to make sure these people get their butts into the chair. >> joy, the temperature is deeply polarized on the hill. democrats are absolutely serious from every conversation i've had about getting to the truth. this unites everyone in the party from the moderates to
centrists and they view this as an existential threat to democracy. what happened on january 6th. the sharpest comments have come from those who consider themselves more moderate and conservative. liz cheney is involved in the high level discussions. on the republican side, house minority leader kevin mccarthy has stuck very closely to former president trump. he believes that his path to becoming speaker involves getting the former president support and staying on his good side. just hours ago he spoke to reporters and before the subpoenas were out he called this committee and its investigation political. that is pretty much the party line. so i would expect kevin mccarthy and his allies to fight this. they'll say this is a witch hunt and political and that's what we have come to expect. it remains to be seen how hard
they fight it. joy, you are absolutely right. how aggressively democrats enforce this. now they can. the biden white house supports this. a statement earlier saying it's important to have a thorough investigation, if they put out, for instance, a criminal referral to the justice department, which is one tool that congressional committees have to enforce subpoenas, they are dealing with a very different justice department than the one under the previous administration. these are all dynamics going forward that will affect how all of this plays out, joy. >> excuse me. let's talk about that white house for a second. they have a lot on their plate obviously right now. talk about the mood inside the white house right now because they're juggling this crisis on the border with haitian migrants, these negotiations that they're dealing with with democrats of all ideological stripes to get through this reconciliation bill. there's a lot going on. what is the sense of how aggressive the white house wants
to see this go? because there has been a sense that they have tried very hard to stay in that sort of bipartisan lane. >> based on my conversations and having been there all day is teps. this is a crucial moment in the biden presidency. he's been this office 240 days now and they understand that this multitude of crises is how the public is going to judge him. he's dealing with so many issues on so many fronts. when it comes to the january 6th committee, they made it clear that president biden makes this a deep stain. they are saying we will aggressively work with the committee. these letters say that mark
meadows might have been in contact with people who planned this insurrection, that he might have been talking to people about how to do things, how to possibly be involved with trying to take over the u.s. government. that is a claim that is extraordinary and there are depositions in these letters. they say october 14th, october 15th you need to be in congress. you can already see there's real teeth behind these letters. then when it comes to the other crises. the haitian migrant crises has really rocked this white house because there are so many supporters of the president including many haitian americans who were excited about seeing him come into office because he was not going to be like former president trump in his eyes. they view president biden as treating haitian migrants worse than former president trump in that these images of border patrol agents using reins against migrants. this looks like slavery. they say this is cruel, inhumane. the story i broke today about special envoy resigning.
a lot of the things they're saying are the same reasons why haitian migrants are saying how can this be the biden administration? this is absolutely an issue the biden administration has to deal with. the president has not spoken out about it. why isn't the president saying more from his bully pulpit. he might speak out, he may not. we have to watch that carefully. this is a confluence of issues especially if you think about the fact that the government might shut down next week. >> right. >> there are so many different things that he is facing. it's a tense white house right now. >> i can imagine. glen and yet, and yet i have two more letters in my hand here. this is the one to cash patel. you're right, the centrality of our democracy being on the brink, glen, it cannot be overlooked no matter how many things the white house haason its plate. this has got to be what's written. you serve as chief of staff of acting secretary of defense
christopher miller, the position president trump appointed you to on november 10, the day after he replaced then secretary of defense mark esper. prior to your appointment they're talking about based on documents obtained by the select committee there's substantial reason to believe you have additional documents and information relevant to the role played by the department of defense. we are talking about a broad investigation that goes back to december, that goes back to shortly after the election and it goes to the department of defense, glen. >> yeah. it looks like they are sort of going scatter shot. a wide shot group, so to speak, to try to get all of the different pieces under subpoena, including the department of defense piece which i've been preaching since january 6th that it sure looks like the executive branch set up the capitol for failure. not only did donald trump verbally launch the attack by inspiring the crowd to go down and stop something that really hadn't gone on in the first
place, stop the steal. well, nothing had been stolen. this was donald trump ginning up an attack. that's where the department of defense piece comes in and is really important. >> it doesn't get any worse than this. this is a recipe for a coup. we're going to stay on this. msnbc will stay on it. thank you all very much. that is tonight's "reid out." all in with chris hayes starts now. tonight on "all in". >> i want to just thank the people of texas because we won in a landslide. it wasn't even close. >> the big lie spreading to states trump won. tonight the push for an audit in texas and why greg abbott of all people suddenly isn't maga enough. then -- >> a
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