tv The Beat With Ari Melber MSNBC September 27, 2021 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT
helping to make san francisco the greenest big city in america. let's keep making a differene together. thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times. we are grateful. the beat with ari melber starts right now. >> i am ari melber and we begin with breaking news on the biden agenda at this moment we can report speaker pelosi is huddling with house emocrats this is a closed door meeting as democrats have really shifted from projecting confidence about their agenda here and getting a pass to signs of concern that biden's plans for domestic spending now hang in the balance. joe biden is making historic push to really reshape the safety net we've covered the outlines of
that here. a sweeping multi-trillion dollar package that democrats can only pass, everyone knows this part, if they remain united. meanwhile, republicans are threatening everything from the default of the united states to a federal government shutdown. voting is underway on one of those issues in the senate right now. republicans have made it clear they will block a bill that would simply fund the federal government while also raising the debt ceiling now few republicans would claim that either of those would be reasonable outcomes, a default or shutting down the government right now but the gop's threat to cause widespread american suffering for its own political agenda, well, that has proven to be a credible threat in washington let me tell you what else is going on later this hour the house will formally evaluate its trillion dollar plan. the speaker will move to the votes from today to thursday and the president today conceding this time line has been changing >> what would you say for your
agenda and presidency? >> well, it may not be by the end of the week. i hope it's by the end of the week. >> hoping for the end of the week pelosi and many democrats are huddling on this right now the speaker has proven herself over many years to be a master tactician. let's be clear now even she concedes the week is not starting out as it has planned. that is the situation then there's the politics she still has the vast majority of the party with her. by that i mean people with a vote as well as a lot of support for the democratic agenda across the coalition in the country meanwhile, a progressive writer josh marshall notes the overwhelming package is supported in both chambers and pretty much across all factions and yet the standoff remains in washington with real efforts to get a handful of conservative democratic senators back on board. there we are to start the week let me say it like this. in many ways that could just be
the whole story. just keeping track of what's going on in washington a lot of news kind of does come down the pike like that, but let me be clear with you before we bring in our experts, that's how it's often covered but this is about so much more than washington let me tell you how i see it we have been living through a horrific pandemic that has often asked most of those with the least. we've covered those long lines to get food, the working poor uprooted from their jobs then when jobs started coming back it was a lot of working people and the working poor that were first asked to get back to work, get back in the uber, before anyone claimed it was safe while the people in america with more money got to zoom their way through this national trauma and then of course there are the nurses, the doctors, the first responders, the teachers who continue to deal with risky classrooms today we didn't just get through this recent period together
we got through it via an economy and a lot of federal policies that don't distribute the burden equally and then meanwhile there's the other context. amazon and a kadre of bil billionaires have paid lower taxes. a trillion dollars is certainly a lot of money it's all the a lot this is a democracy so people should debate whether they want to spend that much and whether it's worth it. i'm not here to tell you how to make up your mind on that or how congress should make up its set of minds but i will tell you the evidence here stacks up against a lot of hardship and the president here is basically making an argument asking people not to focus on counting one or two votes in washington, although that's part of the process, but arguing that this spending would just make today's america a little bit more fair, that it's worth the costs and he's betting that argument,
spending today as the recession, the pandemic continues, is a better bet than what the other side seems to be offering, which is delay, obstruction or accepting more of the status quo. with all that in mind widening a little bit beyond the washington lens, we bring in our experts. one of those was just quoted josh marshall and juanita toliver. josh, i'll begin with you. good to see both of you. as one of the analysts we quoted looking at a standoff that you argue isn't really left versus center left or left versus moderate, you write that a lot of evidence shows it is the vast march of the democratic party, its coalitions and members and one or two other sen nats and the other holdout. >> that is demonstrably the case one of the remarkable ways about 2021 has developed, just how
united the democratic party is on a pretty big, pretty ambitious agenda there are quibbles here and there, but basically this is the president's plan this is the president's agenda we're now operating with this 3.5 trillion number which is sort of the senate's spin on that agenda and basically, you know, a lot of emphasis is being placed on the progressives in the house but, again, this is the president's agenda president joe biden. he's not bernie sanders. he was not the, you know, left candidate going -- you know, in the democratic primaries. >> no. >> it's his agenda and, again, basically he is got the -- you know, the right, the left, all of the big factions on board. again, some quibbling at the margins but not a lot and it really comes down to these two senators and the reality is they only have 50 votes, 51 with the vice president so they've got to get those two on board but one of the basic things that we've
seen in the coverage is that, again, this keeps getting portrayed, you know, as sort of aoc versus joe manchin or the progressives and the moderates but it really is a surprisingly unified democratic party with two senate holdouts and one of the challenges for the democrats is that they haven't even really said whatthey're holding out about specifically they haven't said, okay, i'm on board with all of this stuff but you have to take this dollar amount down. have you to get rid of that one program. it's basically just this kind of, you know, moving target of i'm just not ready yet it's too much. it's this, it's that or the other. that's made it a big challenge but it really is basically the entire democratic party and in this context i mean elected members of congress. i think it's probably the same in the country as a whole, but elected members of congress and these two holdouts you also have maybe a dozen in the house. it's really the two senate holdouts they're the ones that can really
bring this all down. >> juanita, against that you have mcconnell basically just saying, as usual, burn the place down here he was on the debt ceiling. >> we will not provide republican votes for raising the debt limit there's no chance republicans will help lift democrats' spending limit so they can immediately steam roll through a socialist binge that will hurt families >> juanita >> it is just really irresponsible, ari, and completely flies in the face mcconnell said every other time the debt ceiling needed to be raised and the three times the democrats did. it's just so irresponsible i'm frustrated to hear it but here's the other thing i'm not the only one who's frustrated to hear him talk like that according to a oll, they will blame both parties if the u.s.
defaults on its debtor if the government shuts down. for republicans or mcconnell to think they can get out of this unscathed by raising the debt limit is ridiculous. this ain't the time to create drama in people's lives. we are in the middle of a pandemic this move iscomplete bs, ari. >> put very strongly but i understand where you're coming from can you speak to that, josh, this portrayal of mitch mcconnell as that friend where every time you go to brunch with them there's all this chaos and drama and even if you want to be sympathetic, at a certain point you say, you know what, david, or julie, or in this case, mitch, it sounds like maybe you're the drama i get that you feel upset, but maybe you're the one creating it because you either take him at his word that he would use the power to default the u.s. over what they don't have a claim here really, just over the normal
disagreement of policy or you take it as him, as i mentioned in the lead, just using the economy and the recent hardship we've all gone through, some as i emphasize harder than others, as one more piece of leverage. >> well, you know, juanita said something really important, and that's the f word. filibuster it doesn't get mentioned enough in this public discussion. when you see it come up it's like oh, the democrats have another challenge. they need to deal with something called the debt ceiling. no one outside of d.c. has any idea or should have an idea what this term really means that is what is happening. republicans are saying, democrats got to do this on their own. we're not going to help. this is, you know, on you. in fact, what the democrats are trying to do is do it on their own. republicans are filibustering that they're using the filibuster to drive the country into a debt default and that is forcing the democrats to basically pry this
into -- they're completely unrelated. the reconciliation bill is completely unrelated but that's the only option they have. what mcconnell said there, we're not going to let you add more debt for your socialist agenda and stuff, people need to understand what the debt ceiling is about it's a really stupid thing that it even exists think of it in your own life if you buy something on your credit card, later on you have to pay your credit card bill that's all one thing it's not two separate things >> right >> what this debt ceiling thing does is we've already paid -- we've already bought the stuff and now we're deciding, well, should we pay the credit card bill in the real world, that's all one decision and that's really what this is about it's not adding to anything, it's just are you going to pay the bill for what you already bought and, again, in the real world, the answer to that is always yes, unless you want your credit rating destroyed, which is what they're talking about doing for
the whole united states. >> right and i think this goes to i guess one of the emerging themes tonight as we talk, which is the difference between washington and everywhere else and reality. yeah, if you're not versed on the jargon, why would you be debt ceiling, it sounds like somebody is going to do some renovations. it's just a question of whether republicans are going to make good on a threat to make the u.s. good on a dead beat nation, something they're only interested in doing when there are democratic presidents. we can all be cynical but i would remind viewers pre the obama era, both parties did their work on this even when different parties controlled the white house to try to get to solutions. so this is an asymmetric development. it started with the backlash to obama, and we all know how that looked and how that led to the trump era, and that's been the modern gop mo. moving beyond the seal and the renovations, josh, i want to ask you about a really core muching
letter from progressives that speaks a lot to where this debate is headed and the spending could make a dent in some of the hardship in america. they go after the conservative dems and take action with what they're really trying to do is derail popular policy to what is a moderate president in biden. conservative democrats have desided to delay or oppose and then they really go in for the kill here, josh, saying weak democrats are committing political malpractice. what do you think of that in a balance in a party where obama and biden both positioned themselves as compromising center left figures, not far left, and here you have the compromise emanating from the white house and then you have these few democrats what the progressives are calling quote, unquote weak democrats well, no, it's not moderate unless we get on board
this is news and they said, they picked the moderate. this is his moderate compromise plan >> yeah. i think the key is that the real tell here is that manchin and sinema, especially sinema, but manchin, they have not made a point to say this program is too extreme. this program is too liberal. it spends too much, whatever like that. that really tells you what is going on here. they don't really have disagreements on the merits. their effort is a positioning one. it's an optics one they want to define themselves as moderate by saying no to their own party. so what their own party is saying, is pushing for, is kind of irrelevant. whatever the rest of the democratic party puts forward, they are going to want to say, no, i can't do that because i'm moderate i'm not extreme. you're extreme so it's a -- again, this is kind of one of the things that hasn't
come through in the reporting. it's not just that there's a -- there's really not a disagreement over policy you have most of the democratic party talking the language of policy here's the things that we think are important. here's the money we want to spend. these two senators, they are talking the language of positioning and it's that conflict between the two it's not about the programs. these two senators have decided that they are going to earn their d.c. reputation as moderates, not the extreme people, by just saying no to their own party, and that's really what this is about. it's not even about policy they're not paying attention to policy. >> i think that's fair that's i think what has been really revealed in the moving target or manchin's call for a pause and there's a lot on the line here. if it's all about positioning, you know, save it for yoga class and get to work on getting a bill through because there's a lot of things going on in the
country people need help with. josh and juanita, thank you for kicking this off. fact checking some of the new claims about the big lie as subpoenas pile in from the january 6th committee. neil katyal is here. plus, a very special guest tonight, you know his name, you know his work. the iconic washington journalist, bob woodward we're going to get into everything a special guest tonight on "the beat." stay with us ♪ when you hear 'cough cough sneeze sneeze' ♪ it's time for ♪ 'plop plop fizz fizz' ♪
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trump and many of his maga fans are having trouble with their own fake audits they've demanded take a look in georgia where trump is actually under an ongoing criminal investigation >> we won on the arizona forensic audit yesterday at a level that you wouldn't believe. it is clear in arizona that they must decertify the election. it was a corrupt election, and it's my opinion, by the way, that georgia is far worse. >> you may be feeling like you're having flashbacks there, donald trump speaking with a crowd, with all of the usual pageantry. this is part of this week end and this is part of what the maga rules are when the sham audits and aren't
valid actually found that trump lost by even more than he thought. "new york times" reporting trump and his allies are full meanting more and more conspiracy theories there is an election officer to copy voting system hard drives this is not a drill. it requires scrutiny to be ahead of whatever they may be cooking up republican congresswoman cheney who was ousted from leadership over confronting trump's big lie is saying pay attention because this person, who may run again for president, is dangerous. >> i watched while the attack was underway, understood very clearly what he did on january 6th, what he failed to do on january 6th. instead of stopping the attack while it was underway, he was busy calling up senators trying to get them to delay the count so there was no calculation. i think he's very dangerous.
>> that is an insider, conservative republican talking about the sloppy coup trump tried to raise on the 6th. "the times" says the fbi had an informant a member who was texting his own fbi handler during that insurrection but maintaining they had no plans to enter the capitol itself meanwhile, speaker pelosi's own committee, last week there was news of a major win for congress we were covering this. biden's administration said from the lectern, the white house press secretary, that he would not, not use executive privilege to shield donald trump with the release of information or evidence relating to the january 6th insurrection that felt like a big deal when it comes on the record this is interesting and this happens on many stories including out of washington. the biden administration is now appearing to walk back that
fairly straightforward statement. it is saying something that sounds much more lawyerly. decisions about whether or not to shield evidence or documents will actually be made on a, quote, case-by-case basis. well, what's up with those cases? we have someone who has handled some of the most high profile cases for president biden and others, neal katya after 60 seconds. we'll be right back. power, we can harness the energy of the tiny electron. we can create new ways to connect. rethinking how we communicate to be more inclusive than ever. with app, cloud and anywhere workspace solutions, vmware helps companies navigate change. faster. vmware. welcome change. (man 1) oh, this looks like we're in a screen saver. (man 2) yeah, but we need to go higher. (man 1) higher. (man 2) definitely higher.
(man 1) we're like yodeling high. [yodeling] yo-de-le-he... (man 2) hey, no. uh-uh, don't do that. (man 1) we should go even higher! (man 2) yeah, let's do it. (both) woah! (man 2) i'm good. (man 1) me, too. (man 2) mm-hm. (vo) adventure has a new look. (man 1) let's go lower. (man 2) lower, that sounds good. (vo) discover more in the all-new subaru outback wilderness. love. it's what makes subaru, subaru. i'm joined by former acting secretary neal katyal. now we're told case by case, enlighten us break us down both what does that mean? what do you think is happening here at the intersection of washington law and policy which you lived? >> it's great to see you, ari.
it's been a while. glad to be back. executive privilege is this idea that there's a zone of secrecy around the president and presidential decision making that protects information and so what the biden administration last week said was, well, with respect to january 6th, we're going to let these white house officials be subpoenaed, testify in front of congress and the like today i think they did -- i don't think they've walked it back i think they've said we're going to evaluate things oen a kase b -- case-by-case basis suppose you have a president like a normal president who does work, even if you have something like an insurrection happening on january 6th, maybe there's also some foreign policy negotiation happening at the same time or something like that that you don't want disclosed. so it's fully appropriate at least for presidents who do work or are normal that you'd want to have a blanket waiver not a
case-by-case. >> let me press you on that a little bit i hear what you're saying, it makes sense. the case-by-case framework though is we're talking about the case of the january 6th insurrection we didn't read or report jen psaki saying there would never be a possible situation where something that the president -- previous president did would be entitled to this, but on this probe with this january 6th committee she seemed to imply they weren't going to honor it and then walked it back. if it's case by case and she says on this case they weren't going to honor it and now they're pulling back from that, it feels like they may leave room to not fork over stuff on this case. >> ari, what i'm saying is case by case, i don't mean the case of january 6th as much as the micro details of any specific incident on january 6th. it's at least conceivable to me that in setting policy you wouldn't want to say, hey, maybe there's some secret negotiation that's happening at the same
time or something like that. maybe that little piece shouldn't be disclosed absolutely, i'm agreeing with you 100% if the biden administration walked back letting the american public and congress know what's happening on january 6th, i will have a conniption. i takeit the white house is on the same page there. >> you're known for your measured analysis and not for conniptions. if you're going to get to a katyal conniption, that would be quite a development. you're warning us to sit it out and see where this lands which is a fair point as well as everyone's following quite closely what comes out of the white house on that. i want to switch gears but a similar topic playing something steve schmidt said when he was talking to rachel. what we're seeing here is this building chorus of attacks on the 2020 election results and it's gotten more and more absurd which on the one hand can make you feel dismissive like, leave it alone, why even bring it up
but on the other hand it's normalizing and routinizing this to the degree if things aren't involved or what people feel or what their own political audits say. he made a point of why he thinks this is happening. take a listen. >> the republican party of late september 2021 is a profoundly more radical party than it was on election day, than it was on january 6th, than it was on inauguration day they are driving both chaos at the same time where they are selling order. >> your reaction >> yeah. so i agree with schmidt that it's dangerous also these things are inaccurate by republicans, totally. first of all, wasn't trump supposed to be reinstated by august or something? that's what he said. he's had more delays of the postal service under louis
dejoy. they first said donald trump would win, then the supreme court was going to intervene, then that biden would last 10 days, then he was supposed to return on march 4th. had more fakeouts than major league baseball. it's ridiculous. one part is the inaccuracy it is a complete, total lie. the other part schmidt is isolating is the danger. the arizona recount, what a waste of money they spent thousands and thousands of dollars and it turned out at the end of it even after they hired a biased republican leading conspiracy firm to do the recount that biden got more votes than trump did, more than the insinuations are proliferating. you've had recounts and trying to get voter records in pennsylvania, wisconsin, texas and all sorts of things that undermine our faith in the election system. this is not about, you know, looking back this is about republicans
looking forward and saying, you know, in the next time can they sew that kind of doubt and maybe just turn a few people's votes, a few key people, and then hand the election to the republicans even though they wouldn't have wanted it in a democracy, which schmidt is saying is right we don't have a republican party that's an antidemocrat party the entire party is an antidemocracy party. >> that's an important and chilling point which people like steve schmidt and people like yourselves who have a legal lens are warning the nation on what they want to do about that that's on the backdrop of races that we have covered that have partisan republicans in the moment of the big lie. what does that mean? neal, good to have you back here you can always go to msnbc.com/openingarguments we host a page where you can find neal's arguments and great
tutorials. i want to turn to other legal news tonight and it is significant. the very famous singer, r. kelly convicted today after a seven week very serious sex trafficking trial with a host of allegations. he now faces up to life in prison he was convicted today on all counts that includes serious felonies like raketeering and violating an antistate sex trafficking he abused women and boys for over two decades "the new york times" reports kelly sat motionless as this guilty verdict was read today. he was shocked and prosecutors discussing what they called the bravery of these victims who came forward >> to the victims in this case, your voices were heard and justice was finally served
this conviction would not have been possible without the bravery and resilience of r. kelly's victims. >> that is a view of the prosecutor they, of course, have a perspective on the case, but we want to make sure you understand, it's really rooted in facts and testimonial evidence because this exhaustive trial featured often heartbreaking testimony from 45 witnesses. the jury deliberating nine hours before deciding to convict what is now obviously a quite disgraced superstar singer this is not the first time that kelly has been on trial. he was actually acquitted of related child pornography charges back in 2008 that's an update on a significant case there i'm going to fit in a break. when we come back, legendary journalist bob woodward is my guest on "the beat" tonight and the future of the republican party where trump makes nixon look like, well, a lot better than he looked at the time.
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>> it is a horrible allegation and it is a lie. >> i spent my entire career pursuing justice i don't obstruct justice the only thing i've obstructed is the injustice oftentimes at the hands of the department of justice. >> well, the things the media has said about me are lies and the truth will prevail. >> are you concerned you'll be indicted >> no. >> mr. gaetz has seen those media appearances change shape as he hasn't been on fox news in a long time ever since a bizarre interview with tucker carlson. that's the public front. behind closed doors there are other clues. gaetz expects this to go away has been tapping a high profile defense team that includes mark mu lca zy and a new york attorney who helped jeffrey epstein and el chapo both are popular figures on the right and lawyers with a lot of experience in tricky situations. meanwhile, gaetz associate joel
greenberg pled guilty including sex trafficking. "the daily beast" is reporting the move here on the staffing front suggests that gaetz may be bracing for some kind of, quote, extremely grave and complex defense or that he's ready to go scorched earth in his defense against the doj. to be clear, all of this is interpretation at this juncture gaetz is clearly hiring up a team and has not been hit with any charges they would yet defend. we will keep an eye on any further developments on that case. when we come back, an interview that you can probably tell that i am looking forward to we'll get into the state of the nation, what we can learn from the past four years when we move ahead with a titan of washington, bob woodward live on "the beat" next. nothing rhymes with liberty mutual. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪
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stepped out and revealed the news of more subpoenas >> we won't tell anybody. >> no. right. right. >> i don't care if you tell us how many >> it will be -- >> that's chairman thompson there that broke just this hour. we just got the tape into our newsroom he is saying there are new subpoenas coming he's made it sound there would be many. he wouldn't name the names stating the process would include that revelation tomorrow all of this comes after the subpoenas of other top trump advisers and officials all about accountability for january 6th and beyond there was a similar push for watergate. congressional investigations that picked up where journalistic investigations began and that led to new laws and reforms to try to prevent
the very corruption and the meddling in the justice department and other things exposed in that period we have not seen congress come together and pass a similar wave but we keep learning more things about trump's last days in office, what the insurrection brought and just what was the thinking inside the white house. the danger here is what will happen in the next set of elections especially if they're covering the different people in karge charge we have one of the best guests in the country right now the iconic guest bob woodward exposed the watergate scandal and has deepened many historical developments and many presidencies the latest book "peril." ranging from trump's tenure to his last days in office to just how we got to an insurrection in america. good to see you again, sir thanks for coming back on "the
beat." >> thank you >> part of what congress is doing is trying to use the power of law and subpoena to get interviews that you somehow often get without that great power, sir that's what journalists do they are trying to get some trump officials to talk to them that according to the book you've already spoken with what did you learn, what should we understand about the facts leading up to january 6th and the mentality inside that white house? >> well, the overall mentality here is trump's claim that the election was stolen. one of the things bob costa and i found, there were memos and as you know as a legal matter, when you have documentation, documentation of memos, rudy giuliani sent to senator lindsey graham of south carolina and a
memo that white house lawyer john eastman sent to senator mike lee of utah two of the most conservative pro trump republicans in the senate and perhaps in the country and so they looked at the allegations of stolen election and they concluded across the board there was zero evidence to support this so if you look at it, if you had a presentation to a jury of 12 americans, they would look at this and they might have political feelings pro trump or anti trump, butthe documentation is so solid in the investigations and the conclusions of trump's friends just this week trump denounced senators graham and senators lee
saying that they gave up and that they should be embarrassed for abandoning his stolen election claim, but if you look at it through a neutral lens and given the political schism in this country, it's hard, but that's what costa and i were able to do, and it's clear, there is no evidence of the stolen election. what trump has done since he left office, he's almost basing his rationale for candidacy in 20 this is, well, they stole it from me in 2020 so maybe as a consolation prize or his view of justice they should give it to him in 2024, but that's not what the presidency is about.
>> yeah. you've got that right. you mentioned the lawyers, bob you have this scene that you detail, and it seems quite intrepid, interesting reporting where it's after trump has lost, it's after the appeals have gone nowhere and you write that then attorney general barr told him, look, you could have gotten a great team of cracker jack lawyers but instead you have a clown car of people like giuliani now, first of all, i find that interesting because barr shouldn't even really be giving that much of that kind of advice it's verging on improper of the attorney general because he's not the lawyer of the president but, second, you seem to capture a type of candor behind the scenes that was certainly different from the way mr. bar conducted himself, at least publicly as a very, very supportive attorney general backing up almost anything donald trump said. i know you report what you found but can you enlighten us anymore
about why you included that in the book what does it tell us do you believe that is mr. barr doing good now or what was that about? >> no, i think it's true look, barr, a supporter of trump, somebody who wanted him to be reelected went in private to president trump last year during the campaign and said, look, i travel the country as much as any of your cabinet officers i see your supporters. you have them. but, mr. president, they basically think you are an f'ing a-hole and you have to notch it down when trump said, well, why don't you look at the stolen election claims, what was very important barr said in the justice department they said we
shouldn't do this. this is barr talking, an extra step, had five extra u.s. attorneys in the states that were allegedly contested look at this and barr said to trump, mr. president, there is nothing, there is is absolutely nothing here. we looked at it. so you've got all of these people who are supporters of trump, want him reelected saying you are basing this premise of the stolen election on nothing like as we saw in arizona. they spent a long time and lots of money counting the votes again and biden actually got more votes costa and i spent time emptying the pockets and minds of people involved in this because, you know, maybe there is something maybe there was some sort of
fraud. we found absolutely zero. >> does your reporting leave you to think trump is likely to run again or not >> yes we think there is abundant evidence he's going to run again and you know the polling, he has a lock in the republican party at least for the moment. look, you and i have known each other well enough. i'm not a partisan in this if we found something that supported trump, we would put it in the book in the book we give trump credit for pushing on the vaccine it's something that joe biden won't do really. trump did push on the vaccine. it was successful. you have to get what the facts
are, but we, as you so well know, live in this toxic environment of this skism. you're for trump or against trump. i think it's important look, you understand law and law and facts actually in a courtroom and our political system is not a courtroom, but it should proximate it and i would argue if you look at this, this is something that's got to be alarming to a trump supporter. wait a minute, who has got evidence former attorney general barr zero lindsey graham, zero mike lee, senator from utah, very conservative, somebody who talked to trump about this and
again, another zero evidence. >> as you said, you do that reporting so you hear from those people and that helps under score whether this was a march to find a solution or a solution that was just pressed down regardless the final question i have for you is just what do you say to people who look at these books and say well, the sources are giving a lot of the direction and there are people like barr and miley that want to make sure people know they were somehow more secretly critical than it seemed we're familiar with that type of analysis but give you the benefit of responding to that. >> well, in the case of general milley, he was very public about pushing back from trump so that's no surprise that was not concealed
he's testifying tomorrow and it will be very interesting because bob costa and i found no evidence that he committed treason as some people allege. in fact, all of the information we have and we spent months on this is that he did things t protect the country from trump and trump was doing things accusing on the pandemic always talking about the china virus tweeting that millions of ballots will be coming from foreign countries. donald trump set the stage of doubt and worry that caused people to say wait a minute, within the procedures and the law and i think people acted within procedures and the law. we need to make sure something bad does not happen and bad
things happen like war. >> no, that's why i wanted to -- it was a great to have you back on, bob, as i haven't seen you since covid hit, at least in person but we always appreciate your reporting people know your work and you're what they would call as a tribute, old school in getting all the interviews and evidence but new school in keeping up with every breaking story. appreciate it, sir. >> old man old school thank you. >> i didn't say old man. i said old school. good to see you, bob the book is "peril." out now. we'll be right back.
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possible later this week the latest and greatest, we'll always bring it to you as we get it "the reidout" with joy reid starts now. >> happy monday. we'll be waiting for the subpoenas that with baited breath and i'm sure you will, too. thank you, my friend. good evening, everyone we begin wit"the reidout" tonig, c the republican party today is a zombie party the sole purpose is the willing enabler of tlurump's efforts to gain the oh el electoral to regn power. the monstered from those who smashed ou