tv Ayman MSNBC October 2, 2021 6:00pm-7:00pm PDT
this country and for most families is through land or property ownership. . good evening, everyone. in a rare but becoming far less rare saturday session today, the senate passed a veteran bill. i'm going to discuss this with my saturday night panel. nba players say no thank you to the vaccine. and it was a big week for
millennials. britney is somewhat free and r. kelly is going to prison. we'll take a look at both cases. let's gets started. so this week's late-night political machinations revealed some winners and perhaps some losers. the house leadership bowed to their demands by delaying a vote on the bipartisan infrastructure bill until a firm commitment is made on the reconciliation bill. while the so-called moderates were stopped in their attempt to push forward but there's still no bill. so what does that make the rest of us? ♪ things are going to change, i
can feel it ♪ ♪ >> all right. there's still plenty of time here. there's not all losers just yet. but whether we become winners, that's a whole other question, one that seems to depend as always as senator joe mancion and on his lesser known partner in so-called censurism. leverage over other proposals? separate? it's called politics. sinema has largely stayed on the sidelines and her motivations honestly are still unclear. her arizona allies say she wants to be considered a maverick like
party. she's scheduled to attend a donor's retreat for her political action committee. earlier this week she attended a fund-raiser with lobbying groups that fiercely opposed the reconciliation bill. maybe it's time for senator sinema to take a ride on john mccain's express and let the rest of us know what is motivating her decisions, at least her constituents if you don't want to tell the rest of the country. let's dig into this with our panelists. christina greer have a professor of political science at fordham university and author of "black ethnics" and will is an author of the book "how lucky." great to have all three of you with us this evening. christina, let me start with
you. progressives could be forgiven for presuming that sinema, 45, the first openly bisexual member of congress who's easy to spot in her trademark sleeveless dresses what do you make of senator sinema and this description that she's being portrayed as the moderate and centrist and portraying pulse of the people. >> it doesn't matter what she wears or how she dresses. i want to see how she votes. i'm excited to see what arizona done. senator sinema is trying to make a name for herself but hasn't given any rationale as to why she's behaving in this
particular manner. we have to pass substantive legislation to move the country out of covid and the depression that they've been in economically and health motor there doesn't seem to be a deep ideology behind some of her behavior. it doesn't matter how many cool dresses and funky glasses she wear, she needs to step forward and articulate her position on --
>> and do you think that she enjoys being difficult to read or flip-flopping on these issues? is there a strategy at play here? what's your take of this, will? >> a lot of this does seem to be the mccain thing. she sees herself as a self-styled maverick. she's had the opportunity to explain what do you want? she's had a chance to explain it to the white house and the press and she has refused to do so. i think we can all agree that john mccain not necessarily the same side of every issue we're talking about here but you knew where he stood. he loved talking about the press about how he wanted it and the grandstanding nature is more about public relations and publicity. i don't know exactly what it is and the white house didn't seem to know either.
>> she is the ideologue in this. there's a lot of debate about what that word moderate or centrist means. referring to the small handful of conservative democrats working to block the president's agenda as moderates does grave harm to the english language and unfairly maligns my colleagues who are actually moderate yet by and large understand the stakes of this historic moment. correct me if i'm wrong here, should the term moderates be put out to pasture when you're talking about joe mancion and
kristen sinema? >> here's what i can tell you. i served with sinema. she has a strong preference for bipartisan legislation. number one because she things it's more durable when bills pass that support members of both parties, like the criminal justice reform that passed at the end of 2018. those policies tend to last. we have other lessons like the aca in 2010 and the republican tax cut bill in 2017. those are bills that have been under assault since the time they were passed and that cost democrats their majority to the 2010 elections. and republicans their house majority in 2018. i think sinema is doing them a favor by giving them a chance to keep their razor thin majoritys
in the 2022 elections. >> she does not represent where the party is. the party overwhelmingly supports these policies. west virginia, we've seen the numbers. arizona went to the polls. her party wants that. her job is not to moderate the democratic party, it's to represent the constituents who put her in power. we're a republic. >> arizona has a long history of voting for senators who bucked their parties. john mccain and jeff lake both stood up against republicans and pushed back against trumpism and what sinema is doing now is very similar except she's a democrat. >> there's nothing what trumpism represents that's similar to what the democrats are now. you're talking about someone who
has been described as an authoritarian leader, a white nationalist. jeff blake and john mccain standing up is not the same as sinema standing up to the democratic party that's trying to pass child care, climate change and health benefits for the american seniors. that's not the same. i'm sorry. >> jeff blake and john mccain throughout their time in the senate and congress stood up to the priorities of their leadership, of their parties. john mccain was a champion of campaign finance reform, fought mitch mcconnell on it for years and won. you can disagree with sinema's positions but i do think she's following in the footsteps of john mccain. perhaps this country with all our diverse opinions and ideologies should not be reduced
or just boiled down to two ideological camps with a litmus test of six or seven questions about whether you're in support of a free market or health care universal, pro-life, pro-choice, not use these reductive questions to put us in two ideological camps that we're way more diverse than. >> there's no mention of parties in the constitution. this is how we found ourselves. if we look at the history of the framers, that's what we settled in. we've got lots of parties. when we have a third party that tonds rise up, one of two things happens. either it subsumes one of the larger parties or it gets subsumes or the policy position gets subsumed. we can rest it in this
democratic/republican space. this polarized position we're in and policy positions that can't be resolved, especially in washington, d.c. public opinion is showing the vast majority of americans support marriage equity and support a woman's right to choose. it's the elected officials that are playing political footsie. it's the dominance of the two parties tends to dictate our future when it comes to partisan politics. >> we have so many issues with our system. we have one about the big takeaways from this week. did the progressives surprise you by holding strong against the so-called moderates? what does this mean for folks like senator sinema and mancion
and nancy pelosi? you know her very well as a person who has covered her. she very firm about the timeline she gives. she does not want to bring votes to the floor that don't have the votes there. was this a bit of a setback for her? >> i'm surprised they held the line because, frankly, there's more of them. they certainly need that number. but going back to the idea of like, blake and mccain bucking the party. bucking the party is not a stance, not an ideology. if she can explain to us, if sinema can explain to us why, what precisely that she was, there could be something to work here. but she's not doing that. so, therefore, it's just like -- the white house is meeting with her all the time. she says they know what i want. we shall like we don't know what you want. explain to us. it's very frustrating. there's one thing of bucking
your party. there's another thing of being obstinate for the sake of being obstinate. >> and she's creating these spread sheets and nobodies -- nobody knows what's in the spread sheets. >> kevin mccarthy and steve scalise and the progressive party. think about what that means? >> they just don't trust senators sinema and mancion. trust is breaking down. coming up, in basketball you have to take your shots. as the nba season kicks off, some players are choosing to stay on the sidelines. and two major court cases are changing the music industry and
the national psyche. richard lui is here with the headlines. >> california with be the first state to require vaccinations for children to attend in-person classes. the mandate affects nearly 7 million public and private school students. tick tok star gabriel salazar passed away following a police chase in texas. she was driving with three passengers and was pulled over near the mexico border. all four occupants died at that scene. and rock lejd david lee roth is calling it a career. roth's announcement comes almost a year after eddie van halen died of cancer. died of cancer ♪ ♪
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at this point in the pandemic, when it comes to getting vaccinated, the decision should be as easy as a breakaway slam dunk. even the greatest can blow those every once in a while. even though the vaccines have been proven safe and effective, a number of high-profile stars in the nba are refusing to get
vaccinated, kyrie irving and wiggins from the golden state warriors. they could be banned because of their refusal. it's because of comments from draymond green that are perhaps even more concerning. watch this. >> i don't feel like i should get involved in what other people should get involved in their bodies and livelihoods. but for others, it's not my job. >> so i don't think -- i know i'm not in any position to go tell him what he should or should not be doing. and as a leader of this team, i'm not going to go to him and say, hey, man, you should do -- hell, you should go what you feel. i'm not going to go ask him if he got a polio vaccine. why should i ask him if he got a
covid vaccine? >> you need a reason to ask your teammates if they got a covid vaccine? how about 700,000 reasons. let's set aside whether nba players should get vaccinated or not. they should get vaccinated. it's a team sport. are leaders taking a pass on this issue saying it's not my place to talk about this? one angle to look at this is the way athletes consider their bodies. their entire careers, their body is their instrument. and they're always very wary, particularly in season of kind of messing with it. now, that is a different thing of being in covid denial. lebron, who has gotten his vaccine and said he has, a lot of this has to do teammate-wise,
we're all on the same team and i don't tell my teammates what to do and so on. the thing that draymond green is talking about there is talking about andrew wiggins, his teammate, who said he's not going to get the vaccine. that's a major problem for draymond green because and dry wiggins, because he plays in san francisco, will not be allowed to play home games for his team and help his team win until he gets a vaccine. similar with kyrie irving in brooklyn. that's to me the strangest thing about this. it's one thing to say we're all about the team but say, yeah, that's okay, just don't play the home games and bail out on your teams. i don't want to overstate it too much. there are 95% of nba players are vaccinated. i would feel very fortunate and happy to walk around the world and know 95% of the people around me are vaccinated because
i don't know that. >> it's a very important point. we're going to dig into that in a second. christina, let's talk about lebron for a moment. he's been so outspoken, his voice so powerful, so respected. is he trying to have it both ways by saying i'll be a leader on some issues but not on this one because it's so personal? >> i think so. we know lebron james spends over $2 million a year on his body, your nutritionist and trainers and things. this is a brotherhood. i think he's cautious about stepping on other people's toes. however, if you talk to any medical professional, they will tell you that 99% of the people in the hospital right now intubated and fighting for their lives are intubated and not vaccinated. it's people who are
unvaccinated. as a brotherhood in the nba, i would hope that lebron james would talk to them man to man, brother to brother. the only thing that's going to lose this needle, and again, 95% are vaccinated and still have to worry more about the nfl. that's where we need to see movement, when you say not only can you not play but i'm going to dock you play when you have your team play on behalf of you because you choose to the to get vaccinated. that's when we see individuals thinking a little more clearly. >> and congratulations to kyrie irving and andrew wiggins and all the other outspoken anti-vaccers. and using the
#yourbodyyourvoice. the hypocrisy of ted cruz knows no limits. he's defending lebron james, a guy he criticized for speaking out on various issues, black lives matter and now he's defending both black lives and saying your body, your choice. >> well, that's right. i believe that lebron has been inconsistent in some of his advocacy. ted cruz has always been consistent, always looking to exploit situations for political gain. ted cruz and others who have made these kind of statements are the reason why a lot of republicans still refuse to get vaccinated, not because they think the vaccine will do them harm just because they think that if they don't get vaccinated, then they'll be good republicans, but the truth is a lot of republicans sadly have passed away because they've died of covid-19, a lot of them have gotten sick and i said eventually one day republicans
are going to realize so many of their voters are at risk and a lot of them sadly have passed away. so maybe that will get them to adopt a more responsible position when it comes to this issue. >> so, christina, i like to play devil's advocate here. you talked about other leagues. tell me if i have any blind spots. the nba reportedly has a 95% vaccination rate. that should be applauded. according to "the daily beast" has led to a relatively low number of unvaccinated workers, especially other major sports like the nfl that's about 93%, about 200 unvaccinated players, major league baseball is hovering around 80% with 128 unvaccinated players. the nhl, they only have about 20 unvaccinated players. i'm not even getting into nascar or the pga. is there a double standard here, perhaps even a racist one that so much focus is being put on the predominantly black players
in the nba, not necessarily white dominated sports like i mentioned, nascar and perhaps the pga? . >> i don't necessarily think so. what i was talking to my classes about, opinion leaders. we do know that there's a slight lag with vaccination rates among say black men of a particular age say under 25. so i think having the 5% of the nba players being so vocal about not being vaccinated does have some residual effect in the black community. we know that by and large members of the black community are actually getting vaccinated and we do have to worry about white republicans who are pretty obstinate. i do think the amount of money that throws in and out of the nba is dictating some of the leadership of this conversation and why we're so interested in it. no offense to the nhl.
we know their viewer base is no where near the nba nationally or internationally. >> totally. i wanted you to give me that gut check as to whether we're off base in the criticism of these icon being athletes. they have a global appeal and are we focusing on them unduly? you wrote these players taking center stage is a downplay for the league, the nba. will they let irving and wiggins play at home games? are they concerned about what this means if they give them some kind of carve-out exception. >> it actually not the nba's call. in fact, most of the nba, like their support staff and people that work for the nba and referees, for example, people that aren't involved with the
players union, they have vaccine requirements. the players union is generally on the good side of things. i think they are trying to protect the rights against the league. one of the central insights that helped him succeed, he's realized i need to treat in some ways, not all ways, i need to treat players like team owners. they are entrepreneurs. if they succeed, our league succeeds. that's great. it's led to the nba being a leader in a lot of social issues. the down side is you have someone like kyrie irving who is an interesting player anyway. during the bubble, you know, he was very hesitant of playing in the bubble, saying perhaps our time could be better spent out there on the streets. on the other hand he's talked about the earth being flat. so i think the sportswriter howard bryant said he was a
contrarian sometimes without cause. he's a big voice and the nba likes to have players like kyrie irving and lebron james and have their voices out there and personalities out there. sometimes there's a down side when, say, one of the players is talking about how vaccines don't work. >> the league of superstars. you got to take the good with the bad but not when it comes to public health. thank you so much for joining us tonight. coming up, remember when republicans stood up for the plight of afghan refugees? that did happen. they seem to have forgot about that already. my hypocrisy hot take coming up next. hypocrisy hot take coming next (vo) singing, or speaking. reason, or fun. daring, or thoughtful. sensitive, or strong. progress isn't either or
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poor desperate afghans clinging to the sides of airplanes trying to get out. >> it's important that we show hospitality to those who have been so helpful to our servicemen. >> they led the charge on criticizing president biden for turning his back on allies. you would almost think they deserve praise for wanting to welcome afghans into this country. but once they actually arrive, can you guess what happened next? republicans quickly changed their tune. >> what steps are we taking to ensure that thousands of afghans about whom we know nothing are not going to be a menace? >> those folks would be much better served if they were allowed to be placed in communities that were culturally much more similar, like uzbekistan. >> wow. an astounding level of ignorance there from montana congressman matt rosendale.
and this this week on full display in the senate, senator tom cotton proposed an amendment to the government funding bill that would have curtailed assistance to refugees and more difficult to obtain driver's licenses. a new poll from the kaiser family foundation shows over half of republicans believe that immigrants and tourists are responsible for current pandemic conditions. this despite a senior military official saying that 84% of afghan refugees on military bases received coronavirus vaccinations but there's another powerful force driving the attacks on refugees in this country, islamophobia. a gop senate who i will not name
because we don't want to give him a platform tweeted this "84% of afghan refugees are unsetted. let that sink in more a moment. and then discuss with your family whether you want child brides and sharia law brought to your neighborhood." neighborhoo. ! who's got the bird legs now? only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ ♪ look good feel good
we have to be able to repair the enamel on a daily basis. with pronamel repair toothpaste, we can help actively repair enamel in its weakened state. it's innovative. my go to toothpaste is going to be pronamel repair. some huge headlines in the entertainment industry this week. the #freebritney movement was a huge win. this follows years of legal battles for the pop star who was furst put up under conservatorship in 2008. r. kelly was found guilty on all
nine counts against him after decades of allegations of sexual abuse. both pears and kelly's story were thrust back into the spotlight after the release of the documentary "framing britney spears" and "surviving r. kelly." how does the past look in a 2021 vision? and what does it say about our future and culture entertainment in this country? my panel is back with me to discuss it. joining the panel is eric degins, a tv critic for npr. eric, you recently spoke to an executive producer on "surviving r. kelly" widely attributed this
movement for victims of r. kelly. the documentaries don't have a lot of new information. is it the media or the moment? >> i think it's both. "surviving r. kelly"'s case, they were able to get a number of women who accused r. kelly of serious issues and assault, get them on camera so they could tell their stories in their own words in a way that was very emotive and connected with viewers. and that all happened in a period of time when we were rethinking what assault means, particularly rethinking believing women who come forward and talk about sexual assault. and we were also rethinking what the me too movement meant for black women. there was a sense that even though the me too movement brought justice for women but
maybe black women hadn't been listened to in the same way. so this project came forward at a time when there were a lot of different trends sort of climaxing at the same time and i think people reacted very strongly to it. >> will, since r. kelly's conviction, there's obviously been another trend on social media, got a lot of people redoubling their efforts, trying to push the major music streaming services in this country to pull his discography off of the shelves, if you will. the sad reality is his music can still be found easily online. what do you make of this pressure being put on streaming services? where should they draw the line. you think of all of artists involved in making an r. kelly album, the writers and musicians who get paid some of those residuals, they may not be able
to get that money anymore. >> a lot of this comes from conservator decisions. remember the movie "the joker" where joaquin phoenix has the scene where he dances. that was to a gary glitter some who spent time in prison for child pornography. they don't remember that because they like the song. two years ago the documentary "leaving neverland," i don't know if i'll ever be able to listen to michael jackson's music and i don't hear them any less than i did two years ago. i think the pressure on streaming services is fair but it's something that consumers have to think about as well. we've seen a story about how r. kelly's downloads went up because of the awareness of his name. consumers have to be mindful as well. consumers have to step up, too. >> to that point, will brought
up some good examples. there's an interesting one. harvey weinstein was a high-profile target of the me-too movement. there are no large scale projects to remove his music from streaming services. is it easier to single out r. kelly or is will something deeper going on here when the movies that would not have been made without harvey weinstein still are seen and available and others with residual effects for other artists are being taken off streaming services? >> i would defer to eric for this because of his writing and his knowledge. when we think about harvey weinstein and think he can still get roman polanski and woody allen movies, i have debates about whether we should be watching "the cosby show" or "fat albert," all of the cosby shows, not just the tv show but
the movies knowing what he did for the civil rights movements in the 60s and 70s. these are debates people are having individually and collectively. they're trying to sift through. keep in mind, the people who have been accused and found guilty and there are lots of people where it's an open secret that they have these bad behaviors and they just haven't been brought to justice in a court of law or they haven't even been brought up on charges, even though it's pretty widely known that they're pretty egregious characters. so i don't really know where to start. i personally don't listen to r. kelly's music anymore. that's a personal decision. but, you know, i don't have stock in spotify or pandora or whatever radio stations decide to play his music. i think eric's point, though, about black women actually being acknowledged in this movement is really important. largely because we have to always remember the work of
tirana burke and how her hard work got derailed a touch. black women have been fighting to be a part of this conversation to really bring so many different people accountable, not just the move each stars and the musicians who were involved but the whole ecosystem that allowed this to happen for so many years, for so many of these famous celebrities that were allowed to do this. >> eric, you were name checked twice by christina. i'll give you a chance to respond about the double standard of harvey weinstein's movies. go for it. >> i think the weinstein issue was a little complicated because he was involved with so many other artists. and he's been removed from the company that he was leading. i'm not sure if the company has any profits if it actually reaches him. he was disengaged from a lot of the businesses that he was involved in as the charges against him progressed. so i think it's a much murkier
issue in terms of weinstein. and i personally, you know, i still watch quentin tarantino movies and harvey wine seen weinstein produced several of those. there's a straighter line listening to streaming and profit that goes to them that are then used to maintain the systems that they've been accused of being abusive. i think it's up to the individual consumer but what you have to think about is will your participation fund that person's, you know, the things that they've been alleged to have done that are wrong? and if you have a sense that's happening, you might want to rethink whether or not you're going to patronize their work. >> the britney spears documentary, the "daily beast" asked if these documentaries are exploiting her all over again. they're being done without her
consent and contributing to the voyeuristic instincts in the first place. what do you make of that critique? >> i'm not sure i believe it. if you're a journalist you can't really help but explore their lives. and the quality of these documentaries and the level of exploitation i think ranges. but what we have seen with "controlling britney spears" and "frames britney spears" especially was an effort to be more critical of other outlets and how they handled interviewing her and how they handled questioning her about her life choices. it seems to me those are great questions to the dialogue about how he handled female artists and how he handled choices they may be in. >> greatly appreciate it.
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♪♪ if you had one shot ♪♪ one opportunity ♪♪ to seize everything you've ever wanted ♪♪ one moment ♪♪ would you capture it ♪♪ or just let it slip ♪♪ his palms is sweaty ♪♪ knees weak. >> all right. mom's spaghetti is off the sweater on the menu at eminem's restaurant. >> mom's spaghetti is coming. want some road pasta after the game? >> got that. >> meatballs? >> you know we got that. >> what about the spa get ta sandwich? got that, too. >> that is a real commercial this week, too. fans can get mom's spaghetti or a vegan alternative or lose yourself in a spaghetti
sandwich. it is not the first time the rap legend has dished out. last year sending pasta care packages to front line workers at detroit hospitals during the early stages during the pandemic. but now it has a permanent fixture not too far from 8 mile. fans who showed up were treated to a special appearance by the rapper himself, switching from spinning lyrics to serving up spaghetti spaghetti. thank for making time for us tonight. be sure to follow us on twitter and tiktok. there will be a lot of highlights from the show and a lot of behind the scenes clips you do not want to miss. come back tomorrow night at 9:00 eastern. we'll discuss the very delayed infrastructure bill on democratic caucus infighting. until we meet again, i'm ayman.
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