tv Ayman MSNBC October 2, 2021 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT
can begin. as the sun sets on brees's beach. >> our thanks to nbc for that reporting and justice being severaled. it is the top of the hour. good evening, everyone, and thanks for staying with us. still, so much to get to. in a rare, and becoming far less rare saturday session today, senate passed a veteran bill. i'm going to discuss this with my saturday night panel. plus you miss 100% of the shots you don't take, so why are some nba players saying no thank you to the vaccine? and it was a big week for millennials. britney is somewhat free and r. kelly is going to prison. we're going to take a look at both cases and what they mean through a 2021 lens. i'm ayman mohyeldin. let's get started.
all right, so this week's late night political machinations on capitol hillit revealed somech clear winners, perhaps even a few losers. progressives undoubtedly came out on top when the house leadership bowed to their demands by delaying a vote on the bipartisan fruct bill until a firm commitment is made on the larger reconciliation bill. while the so-called moderates were stopped in their attempt to push forward with that vote. butat there's still no bill, so what does that make the rest of us? >> things are going to change. i can feel it. ♪♪ >> all right, so anyway, there's still plenty of time here. we're not all losers just yet. whether we become winners that's a whole other question, one that seems to depend as always on
senator joe manchin and also now on his lesser known partner in so-called centrism arizona senator kyrsten sinema. calling it, quote, an ineffective stunt to gain leverage over a separate proposal. leverage over other proposals? senator, it's called politics. while manchin has been monopolizing center stage sinema has c largely stayed on the sid lines, and her motivations, honestly, they're still unclear. her arizona allies say she wants to be considered a maverick like the late m arizona republican senator john mccain. that obviously brings to mind mccain's icanuck 2017 thumbs down vote on the senate floor that ended republican's votes of killing obamacare. i'm sure you remember that moment. sinema who claims she's fighting for working class families and wants good paying jobs seemed to conspicuously mimic mccain's gesture back in march when she
voted againsth including a $15 federal minimum wage in the covid relief package. now, i'm not defending john mccain, certainly not his hawkish foreign policy, but he didh defy his party by stoppin gop idelogs from killing an exceedingly popular program in obamacare. let's bera clear here, kyrsten sinema is no john mccain. in fact, she's the exact opposite. she's the idelog blocking programs favored by the vast majority of the public. we don't know why but we can guess. it's 7:00 p.m. in arizona. do you know where senator sinema is? she's scheduledna to attend an donors retreat for her political action committee. earlier this week she attended a fund-raiser with lobbying groups that fiercely oppose the reconciliation bill. maybe it's time for the senator
to take a ride on john mccain's famous straight talk express an what is motivating your decisions, at least your constituents if you don't want to tell the rest of the country. let's begin with our panel tonight. christina greer is an associate professor of political science at fordham university, also author of the book "black ethnics" and also a co-host of a podcast. and will leech a contributing editor to new york magazine and author ofrk the book "how lucky" great to have all three of you with us this evening. axios an interesting take on sinema thisng week. it was definitely a head scratcher. progressives could be forgiven for presuming that sinema the first openly bisexual member of congress who's easy oo spot in her famous sleeveless dresses which share their woke politics -- i don't even know
how to describe that, but what do you make of senator sinema and she's being portray as the moderate and centrist who's got the pulse of the people? >> ithe doesn't matter how many wigs she wears or how she dresses. i want to know how she votes. and right now s we're seeing shs a moderate centrist democrat really holding up quite a bit of legislation that the american public needs right now. this is why we have competitive primaries and i'm excited to see what arizona doesee because senatorat sinema is in many way trying to make a name for herself, but she hasn't given any rationale as to why it is she's behaving in this particular manner. we know we need to pass substantive legislation to move this country forward to get us out of the covid recession and for many communities the depression thatti they've been economically and health wise. and sinema seems as though she's enjoying the attention that she and senator manchin are receiving as being these maverick democrats.
but there doesn't seem to be a deep ideology behind some of her behavior. and so until that happens, it doesn'tt matter how many cool dresses and funky glasses she wears. she really needs to step forward andst articulate her positions a much more substantive way. >> well, time also profiled senator sinema and this quote struck out to me. senator was a fixture dressing up in black vails to protest the war into iraq. nowin she's raising money for business groups as she with holds her supports for biden's build back better plan which would raise b corporate and top individual taxco rates to offse massive spending on child care, education, climatere issues amo many other top progressive priorities. do you think she enjoys being difficult tonj read or flip-flopping on these issues? is there a strategy at play here? what's your take of this, will? >> it does seem to be the mccain thing.
like being this self-styled maverick. but the thing is she's had the opportunity to explain okay, what do you want? what do you want in this bill? she's had a chance to explain to the white house, to the press. and she has refused to do so. listen, i think we can all agree john mccain not necessarily the same side of every issue we're talking aboutss here, but you kw where heyo stood. he certainly loved talking to the press about what he wanted and how he wanted to get it. i think there is a grandstanding nation about this that seems more about public relations and publicity. i don't know exactly what it is and the white house doesn't seem to know either and i think that'sse the frustration a lot people have. >> to t the point i was making there earlier, she is the idelog in this. when he voted down the republicans attempt to try to repeal obamacare, he was standing up toca the idelogs in his party because it had wide support among the americane public. she's doing thepp opposite. of debate about what that so-called word
"moderate" versus "centrist" means. referring to the small handful of conservative democrats working to block the president's agenda as moderates does grave harm to the english language and unfairly maligns my colleagues who are actually moderate yet by and large understand the stakes of this historic moment. so correct me if i'm wrong here, should the c term moderates be t out to pasture when you're manchin, out joe kyrsten sinema. should they be called conservative democrat or rightwingbe democrats? >> well, ayman, i would call them centrists. and look, i served with kyrsten sinema for four years. she has a strong preference for bipartisan e legislation, numbe one because she thinks it's more durable. when bills pass with support of
membersup of both parties those policies tend to last. they don't get attacked in future congresses or altered. we have other lessons like the aca in 2010 and the republican tax cut bill in 2017. those are bills that have been under assault since the time they were passed and that cost democrats their t majorities in 2010 elections and republicans their housect majority in 2018. so i think kyrsten sinema is actually doing her party a favor here by moderating some of these policies and actually giving them a chance to keep their razor thin majorities in the 2022 elections. >> okay, so she does not represent where the party is. the partyt overwhelmingly supports these policies. even inie west virginia they wa this, and arizona went to the polls for the build back better
plan. her job is to represent the constituents of arizona and the voters who put them in power. that's what we are. we're a republic. >> well, ayman, arizona has a long history of voting for senators who buck their parties. the lastth two republicans who served from arizona in the united states senate jun mcclain andla jeff flaek both stood up republicans and pushed back against trumpism. tell you what kyrsten sinema is doing now is very similar except she's a democrat -- >> there's nothing similar -- there's nothing what trumpism represents that's similar to what the democrats right now. you're talking about a guy that's been described by some as an authoritarian leader, a white nationalist, a white supremacist. jeff flake and john mccain standing up to him is not the same as saying kyrsten sinema standing up to the democratic party trying to pass child care, climate change, all kinds of other health benefits for american seniors. that's not the same, i'm sorry.
>> hold on, ayman. the point is jeff flake and john mccain and not just donald trump but throughout their timeot in e senate and t the congress stoodp to thete priorities of their leadership ofir their parties. john mccain was a champion of campaign finance reform, fought mitch mcconnell on it for years and won. so kyrsten sinema, you can s disagree with her positions but i actually do think she's following in thesh footsteps of john mccain. >> christina, let me take carlos' point and elaborate on it. do you think it's time we have 330 million americans can all of our0 colors, diverse opinions, ideologies should not be reduced or, you know, just boiled down to two ideological camps with a litmus test of six or seven questions about whether you're free market, supporter of free market or do you support universal health care, pro-life, pro-choice, not use these reductive questions tot put us
into ideological camps that we're way more diverse than? >> right, absolutely, ayman. but here's the thing. there's no mention of parties anywhere in thee' constitution. iyw mean this is just how we naturally settled ourselves. if you look at the history of the framers all the way to the present day we've always naturally settled into two parties. when you look at your ballot it's actually quiteou a few parties. the issue is when do we have a third party that tends to rise up one of two things happens. either it subsumed one of the larger parties. we've kind of rested in this democratic republican space. unfortunately right now when this hyper-partisan and polarized situation we're in and policy positions that can't be resolved especially in washington, d.c. but as you said earlier public opinion i showing the vast majority of americans support equity,
support a womens right to choose. it's the elected officials playing footsie with plit issues that have been litigated literally and the american public has already spoken. it's the republican party that is pushing their polls to the extremes. but that is not actually where thes public is. when we think about the diversity of our parties, they exist. it's just the dominance of the two parties tend to dictate our future when it comes to parties and politics. >> we've got so many issues with our system that needs to be addressed. will, i got one for you about the big take-aways this week. did thehi progressives surprise you by holding strong against the so-called moderates, and what does this mean for folks like senators sinema and manchin? what does this mean for nancy pelosi whoth had to -- and you know her very well. obviously as a person who's covered her. but, again, you know she's very firm about the time lines she gives. she does not want to bring votes to the w floor that don't have e votest there. was this a bit of a setback for her? >> perhaps a setback, but i was
surprised they held the line because frankly there's more of them. they certainly need that number, but i think going back to the idea of like flake and mccain bucking the party, i agree with you they did. is not a g the party stance. it's not an ideology. i don't know -- if sinema can explain to us why, what precisely that she wants there could be something to work here. but she's not doing that. and so therefore it's just like oh, the white house is meeting with her all the time and she saysim they know what i want, a they're like we don't know what you want, please explain to us. and i think that is the thing reallyat frustrating. there's one thing of f bucking your party. there's another thing of being obstinate for the sake of being obstinate. >> and apparently she's a big fan of pred sheets and she's presenting these spread sheets andhe no one knows what's in the except the white house.
>> just a quick point, there's two groups whipping against the bipartisan infrastructure bill in the house. house republicanhe leadership kevin mccarthy and steve scalise and the progressive caucus. think aboutog that and what thaa means. >> yeah,nd we can talk about th after the break but you know it's for political reasons not ideological ones. they just don't trust senator sinema and senator manture to stick with their word. trust is breaking down. stick around with me. comingk up, in basketball u have to pick your shots but as the nba season kicks off some players are choosing to stay on the side lines. plus we're going to take a look at two major court cases that arema changing the music industry and the national psyche. but first richard louie and here with the headlines. >>h a very good saturday for y. california will become the first state to require vaccinations for children to attend in-person classes.n-
the coronavirus vaccine will be added to the ten other immunizations already required for school kids there. the mandate effects nearly 7 million public and private schools students. tiktok star gabriel salazar passed away in a car chase. the 19-year-old influencer was driving with three passengers and was pulled over near the mexico border. all four occupants died at that scene. and rock legend david lee roth is calling it a career. he had been performing for nearly 50 years. roth's announcement comes nearly a year after eddy van halen died of cancer. more ayman with ayman mohyeldin right after this. wn mohyeldin right after this oh! are you using liberty mutual's coverage customizer tool? so you only pay for what you need. sorry? limu, you're an animal! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ we have to be able to repair the enamel on a daily basis.
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at this point in the pandemic, when it comes to getting vaccinated, the decision should be as easy as a breakaway slam dunk. any basketball fan knows even the greats can blow those every once in a while. even though the vaccines have been proven safe and effective, a number of high-profile stars in the nba are refusing to get vaccinated, kyrie irving and wiggins from the golden state warriors. they could be banned because of their refusal. it's because of comments from lubrain james and draymond green that are perhaps even more concerning. watch this. >> we're talking about peoples
bodies and we're beings. i don't feel like for me personally i should get involved in what people should do with their bodies and livelihoods. but for others, it's not my job. >> so i don't think -- i know i'm not in any position to go tell him what he should or should not be doing. and as a leader of this team, i'm not going to go to him and say, hey, man, you should do -- hell, you should go what you feel. i'm not going to go ask him if he got a polio vaccine. why should i ask him if he got a covid vaccine? >> you need a reason for why you should talk to your teammates and friends about getting the covid vaccine? i've got 700,000 of them for you. back with me once again my panel. great to have you back, guys. let's set aside whether nba players should get vaccinated or
not. they should get vaccinated. it's a team sport. what do you make of players like lebron james and draymond green who are leaders in the league and taking an issue and a pass saying it's not my place to talk about this? >> there's a lot of different angles to this, but i think one of the ones to look at is the way athletes often consider their bodies. all their entire careers their body is their instrument. and they're always very wary of particularly in season of kind of messing with it. now that is a different thing than being a covid denialest. and i think lebron who has gotten his vaccine and said he's gotten his vaccine, a lot of this has to do with teammate wise the idea we're all a team together and we're all on the same team and i don't tell my teammates what to do and so on, it's still kind of an insane thing. because he's talking about andrew wiggins his teammate
who's said he's not going to get the vaccine. that's a major problem for draymond as a teammate because andrew wiggins will not be able to play home games and help his team win until he gets a vaccine. you're seeing the same thing with kyrie irving in brooklyn. that to me is the strangest part about this. one, the hesitance is one thing. to say we're all about the team but then to say these players just don't play the home games and bail out on your team -- i don't want to overstate it too much 98% of nba players are vaccinated. i would feel very fortunate and happy to walk around the world and know that 95% of the people around me were vaccinated because i don't know that on a regular basis. so in that way i think it's a positive. >> it's a very important point. let's talk about lebron for a moment. he's been so outspoken and active on so many political issues. his voice so powerful, so respected. is he trying to have it both
ways by saying i'll be a leader on these issues but not this one because it's so personal? >> we get it you're a nutritionist and your trainers and things, but this is also a brother hood, and i think he's very cautious about stepping on peoples toes because it is a personal decision. however, you know, people who are doing their independent research still on the interwebs, we need to recognize if you talk to any medical professional they will tell you that 99% of the people who are in the hospital right now intubated and fighting for their lives are people who have covid who aren't vaccinated. we do know people who get the vaccine can still get covid but it's a trip to the doctor by and large and they're fine. as a brother in the nba i would hope lebron james would talk to them man-to-man. and again 95% vaccinated. and we still need to worry about the nfl and mlb, but i think the
commissioners should start hitting these gentlemen in their pockets. when you start saying not only can you cannot play but i'm going to dock your pay when you sit there and have your team play on the bf half you because you choose not to get vaccinated, that's when we see the individuals thinking a bit more clearly because their money might not be as long as they think it is. >> they've got a fan in a another republican senator, ted cruz, the conservative texas senator tweeting out his support for the players in a twitter thread on wednesday. even using the hashtag your body, your choice. probably not the kind of support, carlos, these guys wanted. but the hypocrisy of ted cruz just knows no limits. here he is defending lebron james saying he agrees with him. this is saguy we criticized for speaking out on various issues, black lives matter. and now he is defending both black lives and saying your body
your choice. >> well, that's right. and i think i agree that lebron james has been inconsistent in some of his advocacy. ted cruz has been very consistent. always looking to exploit situations for political gain. and, you know, ted cruz and others who have made these kinds of statements are the reason why a lot of republicans still refuse to get vaccinated. not because they think the vaccine is going to do them harm, just because they think if they don't get vaccinated then they'll be good republicans. the truth is a lot of republicans, sadly, have passed away because they've died of covid-19. a lot of them have gotten sick. and, you know, i said eventually one day republicans are going to realize so many of their voters are at risk, and a lot of them sadly have passed away. so maybe that will get them to adopt a more responsible position when it comes to this issue. >> christina, i like to play devil's advocate here.
you also talked about other league. the nba reportedly has a 95% vaccination rate. that is something you and will said, and we all agree that should be applauded. and according to the daily beast has led to a relatively low number of unvaccinated workers especially compared to let's say major sports like the nfl that's about 93%, that's about 200 unvaccinated players. major league baseball they're hovering around 108% with about 128 unvaccinated players. the nhl they only have about 20 unvaccinated players. i'm not even getting into nascar, not even talking the pga, but is there a double standard here perhaps even a racist one so much focus is being put on the predominantly black players in the nba not necessarily white dominated sports like i mention nascar and the pga? >> i don't necessarily think so, ayman. what i was talking to my students about yesterday in class is opinion leaders. and so many of guys in the nba
are opinion leaders throughout so many segments of the black community. and we do know there's a slight lag with vaccination rates among say black men of a particular age say under 25. so i think having the 5% of the nba players being so vocal about not being vaccinated does have some residual effects in the black community. and we know by and large members of the black community are getting vaccinated. and we have to worry about white republicans who are pretty obstinate. i think the amount of money of that flows in and out of the nba is dictating some of the leadership of this conversation and why we're so interested in it. no offense to the nhl but we know their viewer base is nowhere near the nba nationally or internationally. >> that's why i wanted you to give me that gut check whether we're off in the criticism of these iconic athletes because they do have such a global appeal and are we focusing on
them unduly. in a piece you wrote having these outspoken anti-vax players taking center stage is actually one of the down sides of a player driven league like the nba. talk to us a bit about that. how do you think the league is going to handle the situation with the season starting this month? will they let irving and wiggins play at home games? are they at all concerned what this means if they gave them some carve out exception? >> it's actually not the nba's call. >> arenas. >> it's been the cities. in fact, most of the nba, like their support staff and people that work for the nba and referees, for example, play people that aren't involved in with the players union they have vaccine requirements. listen, i get it the players union, they're skrenerally on the good side of things. this is not one of those times but i think they're trying to protect the rights of the league. one of the central insights that's helped him succeed with the way other leagues have not
he's basically realized, listen, i need to treat -- in some ways, not all ways. but in some ways i need to treat players like team owners. they're entrepreneurs. if they succeed our league succeeds. that's great. it's led to player empowerment and led to the nba being a leader in a lot of social issues. the down side is you have someone like kyrie irving who is an interesting character anyway. on one hand during the bubble he's very hesitant of playing the bubble saying perhaps our time can be better spent out there on the streets, protesting george floyd. on the other hand he's talked about the earth being flat. i think the sportswriter brian howard said he was a contrarian sometimes without a pause. he's a big voice. they like to have their voices out there and have their personalities out there. it's just sometimes there's a down side when say one of the players is talk about outback
steaks don't work. >> stick around for us. thank you for joining us tonight. greatly appreciate it, my friend. coming up, remember when republicans stood up for the flight of afghan refugees? yeah, that did happen. well, they seem to have forgotten about that already. my hypocrisy hot take coming up next. already my hypocrisy hot take coming up next esembles someone else... i appreciate that liberty mutual knows everyone's unique. that's why they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. oh, yeah. that's the spot. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ shingles? camera man: yeah, 1 out of 3 people get shingles in their lifetime. well that leaves 2 out of 3 people who don't. i don't know anybody who's had it. your uncle had shingles. you mean that nasty red rash? and donna next door had it for weeks. yeah, but there's nothing you can do about it. camera man: actually, shingles can be prevented. shingles can be whaaaat? camera man: prevented. you can get vaccinated. baby, call the doctor. camera man: hey! you can also get it from your pharmacist!
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plus, 0% interest for 36 months. ends monday. it's important that we try to get out the afghans who have helped us and who have been vetted. >> we've all witnessed these poor, desperate afghans clinging to the sides of airplanes hoping to get out. >> it is very important that we are showing hospitality to those that have been so helpful to our service members. >> all right, so those were republican senators a rilt over a month ago. they led the charge in criticizing president biden for
turning his back on allies and those who served along side us in afghanistan. now you'd almost think that they deserve praise for wanting to welcome afghans into this country. but once they actually arrive, can you guess what happened next? republicans quickly changed their tune. >> what steps are we taking to ensure that thousands of afghans about who we know nothing are not going to be a menace? >> those folks would be much better served if they were allowed to be placed in communities that were culturally much more similar like uzbekistan, like cujeek stn. >> wow, a stunning level of ignorance there. and this week republican hypocrisy on afghan refugees was on full display in the senate. senator comcotton proposed an amendment to the government funding bill that would have curtailed assistance to refugees and also made it more difficult for them to obtain driver's
licenses or identifications here. the amendment failed to pass although all 50 republicans voted for it. when you look at the views of the republican base you get an idea what driving this fear mongering. a new poll from the kaiser family foundation shows over half of republicans believe immigrants and tourists are responsible for current pandemic conditions. this despite a senior military official saying that 84% of afghan refugees on military bases received coronavirus vaccinations. but there's another powerful force driving the attacks on refugees in this country. islamaphobia. a gop senate candidate in ohio who i will not name because we don't want to give him a platform tweeted this out. "84% of afghan refugees are unvetted. let that sink in for a moment and then discuss with your family if you want people who will bring child brides and sharia law to your neighborhood." unfortunately, these kind of
islamaphobic comments rarely receive attention and condemnation from republican leaders. it should be no surprise then how quickly republican leaders withdrew their support for afghan refugees in this country. afghan refugees in this country. enamel in its weakened state. it's innovative. my go to toothpaste is going to be pronamel repair. need your prescription refilled? capsule pharmacy can fill and hand deliver your medications my go to toothpaste - the same day - for free. go to capsule.com to get started. we handle your insurance, coordinate with your doctor, and text you when your medication is ready. all you have to do is schedule delivery. we bring your medication directly from our pharmacy, straight to your doorstep. get your prescriptions filled and delivered today - for free. go to capsule.com and get started in 15 seconds. clerk: hello, how can i? sore throat pain? ♪honey lemon♪ try vicks vapocool drops. in honey lemon chill.
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enamel in its weakened state. it's innovative. my go to toothpaste is going to be pronamel repair. some huge headlines in the entertainment industry this week. the #free britain movement secured adbig win. on wednesday california judge ruled that britney spears' father should be suspended as her conservator. this follows years of legal battles for the pop star who was first put up under conservatorship in 2008. on monday r. kelly finally faced the music. he was found guilty of all nine counts against him after decades of allegations of sexual abuse. he faces a possible life sentence. both spears' and kelly's story was thrust back into the light after the years after the release of the documentaries
brittney spears and surviving r. kelly. so how does the past look in a 2021 vision, and what does it say about our future and culture of entertainment in this country? my panel is back with me to discuss it. and joining the panel is a tv critic for npr and an msnbc media analyst. great to have all of you with us. eric, let me start with you. you spoke to a producer. she told you, quote, american history isn't history until there's a movie about it. and these documentaries for the most part they don't contain much new information, but what is it about the projects that explains the impact? is it the medium or the moment? >> well, i think it's both. and surviving r. kelly's case, dream was able to get a number of women who had accused r.
kelly of serious issues, serious misconduct, serious assault and get them on camera so they could tell their stories themselves, in their own words in a way that was very emotive and connected with viewers. and that all happened in a period of time when we were rethinking what assault means particularly rethinking, believing women who come forward and talk about sexual assault. and we were also rethinking what the me too movement meant for black women because there was a sense of that even though the me too movement brought some justice for women that maybe black women hadn't been listened to in the same way. so this project came forward at a time when there were a lot of different trends, sort of climaxing at the same time. and i think people reacted very strongly to it. >> will, since r. kelly's
conviction there's obviously been another trend on social media. a lot of people redoubling their efforts trying to push the major music streaming services in this country to pull his discography off of the shelves, so to speak, the virtual shelves. kelly was already removed from spotify back in 2018 after the #move r. kelly movement began. but the sad reality is a lot of his music can still be found online. where should they draw the line? do you think all the artists involved in making an r. kelly album, perhaps even the writers and musicians who get paid some of those residuals, they might not be able to get that money anymore. >> a lot of this comes from consumer decisions. for crying out, remember the movie "joker" the scene where he dances that's to a gary glitter song who spent time in prison for child pornography but we
just don't remember that anymore because they like the song. i have to say it's just been more than two years ago that the documentary leaving neverland i thought, wow, i don't know if i'll ever be able to listen to michael jackson music as much or as great as those songs are. i think that the streaming services i think pressure on them is fair, but i also think this is something that consumers have to think about as well. i think we've seen there was a story about how r. kelly's down loads went up because of the awareness of his name, of his music in a way out of this. i think consumers have to be mindful of this as well. corporations and streaming services can do what they can, but consumers have to step up, too. >> so to that point will brought up some good examples. there's an interesting one, christina mchb harvey weinstein was a high profile target of the me too movement. he's currently in prison, but there are no large scale movements to remove his projects from streaming services.
is it just about singling out r. kelly or is there something deeper going on here that the movies who would not have been made without harvey weinstein still are streamed, still available, but movies -- excuse me, songs by others that may have as i mentioned residual effects for other artists involved are being taken off streaming services? >> right, and i'd defer to arrack for this for his knowledge. when we think about harvey weinstein we can still get roman pulansky and woody allen movies, i have debates with friends all the time whether we should be watching all the cosby shows not just the tv shows but also the movies knowing what bill cosby did for the civil rights movements in the '60s and '70s. these are debates people are having and trying to sift through. because keep in mind the people who have been accused and found guilty and then there are lots of people where it's an open
secret that they have these bad behaviors, and they just haven't been brought to justice in a court of law or they haven't been brought up on charges even though it's pretty widely known they're pretty egregious characters. and so i don't really know where to start. i mean, i personally don't listen to r. kelly's music anymore. that's a personal decision. but, you know, i don't have stock in spotify or, you know, pandora or whatever radio stations decide to play his music. you know, i think eric's point, though, about black women actually being acknowledged in this movement is really important largely because we have to always remember the work of tyranna burke and how her hard work sort of got derailed just a touch and it didn't become about black women at all. and so black women have been fighting to be a part of this conversation to really bring so many different people accountable not just the movie stars and musicians involved but the whole ecosystem that allowed
this to happen have so many years for so many of these famous celebrities allowed to do this to women in our country. >> i'll give you a chance to respond about the issue involving the double standard involving harvey weinstein's movies before i get onto britney spears. >> i think the weinstein issue is a little complicated because he was involved with so many other artists. and he has -- he's been removed from the company that he was leading. i'm not sure if any of those profits -- if that company has any profits if it actually reaches him. he was disengaged from a lot of the businesses that he was involved in. as the charges against him progressed. so i think it's a much murkier issue in terms of weinstein. and i personally -- you know, i still watch quinen tarantino movies and harvey weinstein produced several of those. but i think with recording artists there's a straighter
line between, you know, listening to them on streaming and profits that go to them that are then used to maintain the systems that they've been accused of being abuseb. so i think it's up to the individual consumer. but what you have to think about is will your participation fund that person's, you know, the things they've been alleged to have done that are wrong? and if you have a sense that's happening you might want to rethink whether or not you're going to patronize their work. >> i've got to ask you really quick in about 45 seconds, iric, daily beast is asking if these documentaries are just exploiting her all over again. they're being done without her consent and just contributing a bit to some of the voyeuristic instincts that helped land spears here in the first place. what do you make of that critique? >> i'm not sure i believe it. i think if you're a journalist and you're going to look at a public person who's in a controversial situation you can't really help but explore
their lives. and the quality of these documentaries and the level of exploitation i think, you know, ranges. but what we've seen with controlling britney spears and framing britney spears was an effort for people to rethink and how they handled interviewing her and questioning her about her life choices. it seems to me those were great contributions to the dialogue how we handle female artist and how we handle problematic situations they may be in. >> the best take i've heard about these two stories all week. thank you so much for staying with us all night, guys. greatly appreciate it. when we come back -- ♪ this is back, back again ♪ ♪ guess who's back, guess who's
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