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tv   The Reid Out  MSNBC  October 7, 2021 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT

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melber and gary and you'll get the whole interview. makes a lot of interesting points which is why we were happy to have him as part of our in depth theory. i don't have any wine tips but you can connect with me @arimelber or ari "the reid out" is out. >> no wine tips? what? fix that. get them going. have a good evening. good evening, everyone. we are following several major stories including a late night ruling halting texas's darn near abortion ban and bounty hunter law. within the hour the senate will vote to temporarily raise the debt limit avoiding total economic diversity. late today the committee issued subpoenas to two individuals and one organization involved in planning one of the rallies that precipitated the capitol attack. among the targets is ally
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alexander who reportedly went into hiding after january 6th. alexander alluded to the possibility of violence in the weeks leading up to insurrection. on the night before he led the crowd in a chant of victory or death. alexander is the one, as you may recall, who implicated three sitting members of congress in planning the events of that day. >> i was the person who came up with the january 6th idea with congressman gosar, congressman millbrooks and congressman andy digs. we're learning more and more that the insurrection was the end game of a long planned attempt to overthrow the duly elected president before he could be sworn in. 400 page interim report makes it clear step by step how donald trump planned to pressure and could he errs the justice department into joining his effort to overturn the election. it revealed were it not for a handful of doj officials,
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trump's power grab could have ended democracy as we know it. among other things, the report details a three-hour meeting on january 3rd in which trump threatened to replace acting attorney jeffrey rosen. according to rosen trump opened that meeting by telling him that one thing we know is you aren't going to do anything to overturn the election. in rosen's place, trump wanted to install jeffrey clark, a lackey. if clark's name sounds familiar it's because he is the guy who pushed the doj to send letters to officials in georgia and other states asking them to void their election results. in other words, trump wanted the top law enforcement agency in the country to lend its credibility to the big lie, a move that would have sparked a constitutional crisis or worse. that crisis was only averted because all of the other doj officials in the room made it clear that all of the assistant attorneys general would resign
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if trump replaced rosen with clark. even trump's white house council threatened to resign calling trump's plan to issue clark's letter a murder/suicide pact because of the chaos it would unleash. all of this played out behind closed doors three days from january 6th. it represents a fraction of what the committee uncovered. further proof not only of trump's personal disgrace but also his complete contempt for the democratic principles this country tells the world that it stands for. that is not hyperbole. trump compromised the independence of the doj, he defied the constitutional limits on executive power and subverted the electoral process. don't take my word for it. trump's own lawyer jochb eastman put it in writing providing a literal blueprint for how to pull off a coup in america. all of these abuses beg the question who is going to hold donald trump accountable? because as we speak, trump is
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stonewalling legitimate ip kwier ris into his conduct while perhaps trying it again. he's instructing allies and officials to defy lawful subpoenas from the select committee. today, today marked the deadline for four of those subpoenaed aides to turn over documents before their scheduled hearing next week. thank you all for being here. glen, go to the center of my screen here talking to you. the mistakes in those subpoenas seem to be pretty big because if those officials, those trump officials don't show up the way that they did during impeachment, if they ignore those subpoenas, what needs to happen in order for us to still have a rule of law in this country? >> well, you know, there are three vehicles for congress to enforce its subpoenas. civil enforcement, i would say let's just throw that one out. that's what they tried with don mcgann, joy, and he ran out the clock for more than two years.
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>> right. >> and he was never compelled by a court to testify. he ultimately negotiated some very favorable terms of behind closed doors testimony. that leaves two alternatives. one, criminal contempt. what the congress can do is vote out a contempt against the witness who fails to appear, refer it to the department of justice and then the law says that the u.s. attorney for the district of columbia, quote, has a duty to present the matter to the grand jury for its action. what does that action look like? a criminal indictment for contempt of congress. that can be used as a vehicle to force a witness to testify or send him to prison for a year if he declines. the third option that i hope congress will seriously consider is its inherent power of contempt. it was last used in the 1920s and '30s, used successfully by congress and the supreme court has affirmed that it's a lawful
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tool in congress's toolbox whmpt it comes it a guy like steve bannon who there can be no claim of executive privilege for, he left the administration in august of 2017. i hope congress seriously considers using its power of inherent contempt and force him to testify because not all contemptuous witnesses are made equal. >> yeah. you know, let's go on to some of the newer subpoenas. claire, i'm going to start with you. ali alexander, he's been one of the more interesting figures in this attempted coup on the country. he has bragged that he had help, that he had help inside the congress. he's one of the organizers of the so-called stop the steal. he has said that congressman andy biggs, congressman mo brooks and congressman paul gosar helped him plan his rally. speaking of andy biggs, let me let you listen to him today.
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he had an exchange with congressman jamie raskin that i think you will find interesting. >> i hear him not even to be accepting the results of this audit which say that joe biden got more votes than were lawfully reported. do you accept this audit which shows joe biden won indeed by more votes -- >> that is not what the audit concluded, mr. raskin. >> who won the election in -- >> we don't know. it demonstrates very clearly, mr. raskin, there are a lot of issues with this election that took place. >> madam chair, there is the problem that we have. donald trump refuses to accept the results. unfortunately we have one of the world's great political parties which has followed him off of the ledge of this electoral lunacy. >> claire, it seems to me the logical next person to be subpoenaed would be andy biggs if it was me. what do you think? >> well, all three of them. i mean, we have a witness who is now saying -- who has said publicly if you are
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investigating this that he was in coordination and cooperation with members of congress. now it may turn out after they're subpoenaed and we get their testimony that there was not anything that was beyond blind loyalty to a guy who doesn't understand the rule of law or what our democracy is all about, but we now know that there is someone who planned this that says he was working with members of congress. so them trying to avoid saying what they know is just not going to come out in the wash. and i will tell you this, joy, having talked to some of the members, they are determined not to be trumped in this investigation, and by that i mean they are determined not to allow his acolites to avoid the scrutiny they deserve by just running out the clock. i've said this before and give
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me just a second to say it again, if we have the majority and we can get it done, and i think we can get some republicans, we must create a rocket docket in the courts for congressional subpoenas. if congress is asking for information, they deserve to have the facts determined and a decision made by the courts immediately, before anything else is going on. >> yeah. >> and we've got to do that because this running out the clock is what's really undermining everybody's faith in this system. >> yeah. curt, the problem here is that you're dealing with figures who are used to operating on the fringes that have now moved and eaten up and gobbled up the republican party. ali alexander is a fringe member. so was steve bannon. he's also on that subpoena list. talk about how this ends up playing out. because republicans have already gotten away with defying
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subpoenas. they did it before. what now? >> we spent the better part of four years of the trump presidency watching republicans any time a subpoena was issued by the democratic majority, we don't care. they would literally call them fake subpoenas. they would say we don't have to address these at all and they ran out the clock successfully. all the while they were here rows. these same republicans, by the way, who spent eight years issuing subpoenas, thumping their chest every single time about america's right to know. we have oversight responsibilities. the path to truth runs through the oversight committee. that was the standard that they set. now that the shoe is on the other foot, republicans are assuming that democrats won't do the things that glen was talking about, that they won't invoke the inherent powers they have to rightfully and lawfully get to the truth. democrats, if you didn't learn the lesson during impeachment, if you didn't learn the lesson from donald trump and steve
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bannon and mark meadows telling you to go pound sand, i don't know what's going to get you to wake up. you need to. if we don't use our authority now to get to the bottom of a domestic terrorist attack on our capitol, if we don't hold people accountable, if we don't put people in jail, i don't know what the point of a democracy is. >> glen kirchner, article 3 says somebody who engaged in insurrection against the united states is not qualified to hold office. i assume that goes all the way from congress up to the president. there are active criminal investigations against donald trump. georgia is going after him for interfering in their election. walk us through the way in which donald trump could be legally held accountable. this senate memo, this committee memo, it makes it very clear that he had a formal plan to steal the election. the easton memo makes it clear. this investigation makes it clear. what could he be charged with if anything? >> great question.
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the way to hold him accountable is for the department of justice to indict him for the many crimes he inarguably committed. let's just take one from the senate judiciary committee's recently released report. i think you read the quote in your opening. he is quoted as saying about acting attorney general jeffrey rosen, quote, one thing we know is you, rosen, aren't going to do anything to overturn the election, closed quote, and then donald trump threatened to bring in this character jeffrey clark, who was willing to do donald trump's corrupt and criminal bidding to try to overturn the election results. real quickly, joy, i don't go anywhere without my big, ugly blue book of federal laws, the united states code. that quote from donald trump precisely violates a federal statute 18 usc 610, coercion of political activities. it's very short.
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it shall be unlawful for any person to intimidate, threaten, command or coerce or attempt to intimidate, threaten, command or coerce any employee of the federal government to engage in or not engage in political activity. it's a three-year federal felony and what was just published by the senate judiciary committee shows inarguably donald trump committed that crime. all that is left is for the department of justice to step up and indict the crimes we all know donald trump committed. >> and i guess the question then becomes, claire, does merrick garland have it in him to do that? you know, i've been in a deep dive on the 14th amendment today, article 3. some people believe it's self-enforcing. that in fact congress could enforce it against people like mo brooks, andy biggs and others who perhaps engage in insurrection if it is found they did, right? if they were involved. paul goldstar being the third. do you believe democrats in general have it in them to
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self-enforce if that's the way to keep them out of power or get them out of power? >> it's interesting, joy, because what you've got here is you've got people who want to cling to the norms. >> yes. >> the norms are you don't use the criminal law to go after political opponents. that's the norm. but the problem is, they're dealing with someone who blew up all the norms. and who we all know if he got the chance, can you imagine how he would stack the doj? i mean, it took him a couple of years giving back his hand to people around him saying, you can't do that. you shouldn't do that. you can't do that. and then finally he figured out, who cares, i'm going to do it anyway. >> that's right. >> he would go into office on day one and he would stack people at the doj like the yahoos and the clown car of lawyers who ran around the country making up lies. so i think garland and -- by the way, the professional prosecutors at doj are the ones
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who stopped donald trump in that january 3rd meeting, they've got to like really take -- do a gut check here. i get it that we don't like to use criminal law in a political context, but this is a context of saving the democracy and respecting the rule of law and i think that's the analysis they have to do and they have to go after donald trump for doing what is in plain sight. >> yeah. absolutely. i wish we had more time because i would do what would republicans do because in their place, you know, curt, the republicans would waste no time. >> three words, lock them up. that's what they would do. >> claire, we'll be back later in the show. next on "the reid out", the draconian abortion law of texas will be blocked out. a live look at the senate which if all goes as planned, fingers crossed, is just moments away to raise the debt ceiling. can we not do better than just
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kicking the can down the road? new evidence vaccine mandates work and might be the only way to get antivaxxers to take the jab. plus, the shocking video that shows how far the antivax crowd will go. worst than race snimp almost a prerequisite for advancement in today's gqp. "the reid out" continues after this. ♪
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the nation's strictest abortion law has been put on hold at least for now. a federal judge has blocked the texas law that prevents women from ending pregnancy after six weeks before they know they're pregnant and puts lawsuit bounties on their and providers heads. robert pittman calls the law unconstitutional and wrote from the moment sb 8 went into effect, women have been
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unlawfully prevented from exercising control over their lives in ways that are protected by the constitution. the state of texas has already filed its intent to appeal the decision while some texas abortion providers say they are providing full services again. others are hesitant because of a provision that texas republicans tucked into this bill for this very situation. it basically states that anyone who performs an abortion or helps the act even while the law is temporarily blocked would still be liable to being sued if the law is reinstated. joining me now is michelle goldberg, columnist for the "new york times" and joyce vance. i'm going to start with you. the appeal is in. can you walk us through what the appeal in theory could be based on and how successful you think that appeal might be given how conservative the fifth circuit is where they are taking this appeal? >> so there are a lot of moving
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parts in that question, joy, but essentially the state of texas has gone to the fifth circuit court of appeals and they'll ask a three-judge panel in that court to rule a different way. they'll ask that court to go ahead and put the statute back in operation to remove judge pittman's stay. either they'll win or they'll lose there. it's worth noting that only the supreme court can overrule roe versus wade, excuse me, and the fifth circuit panel is obligated to follow roe versus wade, which suggests that they should keep judge pittman's stay in place if they follow the law, but either way we're likely to end back up in front of the supreme court where this case could easily be joined with the mississippi case that the court will hear this term that's a full frontal challenge to roe versus wade. >> and that is the ultimate nightmare, michelle, that i worry about. i don't have any faith that it will not end with roe versus wade being gone.
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so if the worst case scenario happens, i wonder how much of an earthquake that winds up being among american women. your thoughts because this really could be it. >> you know, until the supreme court refused to stay this really unbelievably unlawful texas law the first time around, i thought there might be a chance they would gut roe versus wade versus overturning it outright. that's a way they could foreclose abortion rights which are all but unavailable without creating the kind of earthquake you're talking about, but their total disregard for precedent, their total kind of -- the total contempt with which they handle this whole thing handing down this decision in the middle of the night to let this bill stand makes me think that as much as some supreme court justices wine about their media coverage, which is kind of a new phenomenon, they actually don't really care what most americans think so i would be actually
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very surprised if they don't overturn roe versus wade outright. then i guess the question is what the american people, american women, americans who believe in reproductive autonomy, what they do next. so far this issue hasn't been getting people out into the streets like some other issues i think because people still find it really hard to believe that this could actually happen, but if it did happen, you know, i would hope that that would be a flash point and a turning point in american politics. >> yeah. you know, joyce, i think people have always thought of sort of roe versus wade, think about it the way republicans think about it, a car you don't want to catch. once they actually do it, the real world implications of having really angry female voters will be a backlash that they don't want to deal with. i kind of feel like michelle, that they're past that now, right? if you look at the judges that mitch mcconnell engineered donald trump to sign into law, because that's all he really
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wanted him for, to have his right hand or tiny little fingers to sign into law. look at the fifth circuit. 17 judges, 12 are republican appointees, only 5 are democratic appointees. trump appointed 6 of them. 6 of them. this is a court that's sort of built to do the thing that the far right has said this is their main voting thing. this is what they care about. so i wonder if we just assume roe is going to be gone, what kind of judicial chaos might that unleash? i wonder what next? you know, legally could women be arrested for having abortions? like how bad could this be? >> losing roe would change the entire landscape, joy, because having roe in place and protecting the rights of american people to obtain abortions prior to viability without any restriction has opened up a whole host of conduct, including, as you
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picked out, the fact that the law can't criminalize the conduct that the person who obtains the abortion engages in. all of that could change if we lose roe, and it's worth noting that many of the trump judicial appointees when they were questioned in the senate at their confirmation hearings, they would decline to agree to follow stare decisis, which says that all of the lower courts must follow supreme court cases and that even the supreme court honors long standing precedent and doesn't reverse it unless there are good, solid reasons to do that. the example that was used in many of those confirmations was brown versus board of education where you had this remarkable sight of federal judicial nominees who refused to say that they agreed brown was properly decided. now that opens up the notion that if roe versus wade is fair game, what else? what else among our time-honored rights or perhaps some of our newer rights might be vulnerable
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to a court that no longer holds these values in the same sort of sense that prior courts have? >> and i fear, michelle, that the next is brown. it's being able to -- they also have a case about whether or not, you know, religious schools can get federal funding. this is their big thing. they were angry schools couldn't get federal funding. everything is on the table. affirmative action. i feel like the courts are trying to remake the society into their version, their handmade's tale fantasy of af right wing disattorney-client privilege yeah. >> well, look, i think they think the warren court is where things started going wrong. >> yes. >> the john burke society. the forefathers of today's republican party. you know, they used to have these impeach earle warren billboards. essentially what the modern right's project for all of these years, you know, going on, what is it, 60 years has been to
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reverse everything that the warren court did, and i think that they are getting klesser -- closer and closer to reversing that. the day after roe, 11 states will bana borings immediately. they already have laws that will go into effect. >> yeah. >> i think it's important to note that in the past women weren't arrested that often when abortion was illegal, but that was before the right had coded abortion as murder. abortion used to be the crime of abortion. now they think it's murder. i think we are going to see women -- >> yeah. >> -- be arrested and go to prison. >> yeah. it's going to get ugly. my nickname for what they want to do is repeal the 20th century, i mean every advance of the 20th century. they're trying to do it. michelle goldberg, joyce vance. scaring is caring. thank you very much. breaking news. the senate is voting right now on a measure to avert a debt ceiling crisis, at least for
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now. wait and see how republicans will use any additional time between tonight and potential fiscal armageddon to tee up another crisis in a couple of months. more in a moment. stay with us. ation. that's why i love liberty mutual. they customize my car insurance, so i only pay for what i need. how about a throwback? you got it. ♪ liberty, liberty - liberty, liberty ♪ uh, i'll settle for something i can dance to. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ ♪ ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪
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for now. if all goes to plan it means despite insisting they would never, ever, ever to so, republicans were forced to help americans raise the borrowing limit to $450 million. with the increased credit line to last until december 3rd. here's the funny thing, we just spent weeks listening to the self described grim reaper of the senate lecture democrats about how they had to do this alone. republicans will take no part, no part in paying the country's credit card bill. never. the proud kentucky peacock traced around the senate and droned on about that very point. >> they need to do this. they have the time to do it. and the sooner they get about it, the better. >> they should deliver the votes to do it, and we will insist on that. >> i think it's incumbent on democrats to raise the debt ceiling. they can do it. they need to get on with it. >> except that tonight it turned out that the whiz, y'all seen
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the whiz, right? he really doesn't have any powers just like glen da tried to tell y'all. i said this last night. how in the lilliput can we take this party seriously? here's an interesting plot twist. according to politico, the supposedly all powerful under boss went to discuss this with two nominal democrats, can you guess who? senator joe manchin and kyrsten sinema. shortly after the ideal of blowing up the filibuster became a real prospect. that, that is what mitch mcconnell fears the most. republicans are not happy at this capitulation. ted cancun cruz took to the floor to complain because that's all he's good at. >> in the game of chicken, chuck schumer won this game of chicken. as two trucks drove towards each other on a country road, one or the other was going to turn or you were going to have a lot of dead chickens.
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i wish republicans hadn't blinked. we shouldn't have done that. >> how is that guy a united states senator? back with me, former senator claire mccaskill. joining me is former owe -- i'm sorry for making the tucker face, claire, because in the scenario ted cruz described you wouldn't get a whole lot of dead chickens, both the drivers would be dead if they're driving towards each other. anyway, mitch mcconnell, i would say to the team today as we were on our calls for this segment, that, you know, mitch mcconnell tried to make himself seem all powerful but in the end he is more like a john boehner. he makes a lot of noise but he doesn't -- he's not as effective as he advertises. can you walk us through how this worked? why is it in your view as a former united states senator who knows mitch mcconnell, why did
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he give in? what do you think happened? >> no, i think, first of all, the chickens that are going to be dead in the road are going to be people on social security. they're going to be americans whose retirement accounts take major hits because of the economic meltdown if the republicans forced this country to not pay their bills. not one dime of future spending here. not one dime. this is what they've already spent and they spent it under trump. so the bottom line is that mitch mcconnell knows he doesn't have a good hand, and the democrats need to stick to their guns here because if the republicans want to do this, i guarantee you he was getting pressure from people in his caucus. he was getting pressure from people in his own caucus going, really? we want to be the ones that kill the chickens? which are going to be the elderly in this country. we don't want to be the ones killing the chickens. and the beauty of the
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frustrating fight of the filibuster is americans now understand that you can't do much with just 50. so mitch mcconnell can't escape thsay, oh, well let them take it over. well, no, you can't let them take it over because you're the one that is so hell fire bent on making sure everything has to get 60 votes. >> yeah. i mean, david, all of it is so dumb that if it wasn't such a potential catastrophe and so catastrophic as claire just described it for the american people, the economy, our full faith and credit, you might have to laugh at it. donald trump issues one of his statements, his little whatever he calls them, his little memos, saying don't take this vote. don't let mitch mcconnell fold. stand strong. that's really probably the only reason that you just got that chicken statement from ted cruz because he's terrified of donald trump and has to be solicitous all the time. they were willing to tank the economy to please donald trump i guess? the fact that john thune said we
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don't want our name on increasing the debt limit. they don't care about the issue, they want to run ads saying only the other guys did it. this is so irresponsible, david. i don't know your comments. i'm just going to let you talk. >> it's for the most part no longer a governing party. you know, claire remembers there were times even though it's not like washington was laughs and giggles when she was there, but you could get stuff done. this party is sworn to trump, denialism, sworn to destroying the democracy. the only reason mcconnell blinked was he heard from manchin and sinema they would have a carve out on the filibuster. we've got better things to talk about. listen, the republicans don't want to do that. it's outrageous and hitch critical. i want them out there talking
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about the jobs and home health care and taxes raised on the wealthy. i wouldn't fall into this trap. it's an important issue of course. claire and i went through this in 2011. i would shrug your shoulders and say, we'll do this. deeply hypocrite call but that shouldn't surprise us now. be out there. every member of congress, administration officials, governors and mayors go out there not just talking about what they're going to do but also the entire republican party is opposing these things that are deeply, deeply troubling. >> very quickly for both of you. i'll start with you, david, as a strategist. should they do the debt load increase including a rule that won't let mcconnell do this again and use the reconciliation vehicle even though they know that they're just going to run ads against them, that they're going to try to pretend the
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trillion tax cut that donald trump has, that all of that -- should they take the ads and not care and do this through reconciliation and pass something that doesn't let them do this again? >> first of all, democrats are always at a disadvantage in these battles because we actually care about the country and our conomy and governing. republicans know that. mitch mcconnell knows that. the preference would be to say we need to do this with you. if you're not going to do this with us, we are going to carve out the filibuster, not just for one day, for voting rights. i would do reconciliation as an option. that puts pressure on mcconnell. that will require manchin and sinema to play their roles. and to keep this -- this shouldn't be something we do in six-month increments much less two. let's get two or three years' breathing room so this isn't hanging over our economy and
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doesn't dominate washington. that would be my sense. >> what do you think, claire? do you think the democrats have it in them to do that? do they go big and saying this is the punishment for having played the game with our economy? we're going to carve out voting rights? we're going to get immigration reform done, police reform done? we're going to carve out a big old hole in the filibuster and that's the punishment. can they do that? will they do that? >> no, i don't think they will, but i will say this. i do think they have the opportunity here to say unlike the republicans who spent big and won't pay for it, we're going to spend big on you and we're going to pay for it. we're going to make people finally pay their share of taxes that they should be paying, and in that process you're going to get child care, you're going to get expanded medicare and you're going to get some things this country is way behind its peer nations in. we are way behind child care and other issues of other developed
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nations. david's right. that's what we should be talking about and let the chips fall where they may on the debt ceiling. >> claire mccaskill, david plouffe, thank you for watching this with us. antivax fanatics step up their campaign to harass and intimidate moms. moms who are taking their kids to elementary school. we'll be right back. ♪girl, i don't know, i don't know,♪ ♪i don't know why i can't get enough of your love babe♪ ♪oh no, babe girl, if i could only make you see♪ ♪and make you understand♪ get a dozen double crunch shrimp for $1 with any steak entrée. only at applebee's. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. [tv announcer] come on down to our appliance superstore where we've got the best deals on refrigerators, microwaves, gas ranges and grills. and if you're looking for...
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okay. we have some good news to share with you tonight for a change. a miracle vaccine has emerged. no, no, no, not that one. this time a vaccine for malaria. the disease that kills almost half a million people every year. nearly all of them in subsaharan africa. the world health organization has endorsed the vaccine, a breakthrough to be celebrated given that more than 260,000 african children under the age of 5 die from malaria annually. meanwhile, in america it is
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quite the opposite where a growing movement to reject a safe, free, life saving vaccine for covid is growing louder by the day taking over school boards and taking their cue from tucker carlson. this heated exchange took place yesterday at an elementary school in beverly hills. >> this is rape. this is rape. they're trying to rape our children with this poison. they're going to rape their lives away. >> masking children is a child abuser. >> that's my children. respect my children too. >> the beverly hills unified school district does not require vaccinations. los angeles has announced a vaccine mandate will apply to indoor spaces. joining me is u.s. surgeon general murphy. i think i call you general, right? i love your uniform.
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so when you see something like that, you know, i saw the theme, malaria, the who saying there's a malaria vaccine. i know that's a big deal for children and have had family members who have had it. how have you processed the fact at that there's been almost the opposite reaction. literally the opposite reaction to the covid vaccine in so many circles? >> this is striking. for a moment, talk about the malaria vaccine. one, half a million people die each year from malaria. the vast majority are outside of the united states. we may not pay much attention to it. 260,000 of them are children who lose their lives under the age of 5. >> yeah. >> that should trouble all of us regardless of what country we live in. the fact that we have a vaccine potentially that would help those individuals, it's a big deal but also this is the first
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vaccine we have against a parasite, not just the first vaccine against a parasite. science is important. you've got to remember science doesn't just happen in a vacuum. got to fund it and support it. >> yeah. >> the other thing that it reminds us, we have to manufacture, distribute the vaccines and have accurate information about it. my concern about the united states, while there's a lot of initial enthusiasm, the vast majority are supportive, we have seen a growing wave of misinformation that has led people to make decisions that are contrary to their best interests and their family's well-being. >> i think about the fact that more people died this year when we have a vaccine than died last year when we didn't. i mean, i have a statistic here that 140,000 kids lost a caregiver to covid. 140,000 kids who have no parent. and with those kinds of numbers,
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it is shocking to me we're losing more people now that there's a vaccine. that's dispiriting. >> if you hear that statistic, that is does this mean vaccines don't work? we lost more people this year than last year. here's the important thing to know. if you look at the people who are, number one, in hospitals and dieing, the vast majority are unvaccinated. >> exactly. >> the other important thing to remember is we are dealing this year with the most contagious variant of covid we've had to date, much more contagious than last year. that means even though we've got more than 213 million people in the country who have had one dose of vaccine, the 67 million people who are not vaccinated are at more risk because we have a more transmissible, contagious variant. >> exactly. these feel like deaths by choice. these are not deaths because there was nothing that could be done. last year when there was no vaccine, lots and lots of people were dieing, we reached this
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incredible milestone of deaths. there was no vaccine. this year there's something that could be done. it is shocking that people would choose to get sick and die. >> it's deeply concerning. very different from the antivaccine sentiment that we saw and have seen with measles vaccines and other vaccines. what's different here is the profound explosion of misinformation, the polarization and politization in many ways of the broad jericho individual effort and covid vaccines. this has not served us well. i think in general people around the country, whether they are supportive of vaccines or not. they have the same goal. they want to be safe. want to keep their kids and family safe. i believe people have the right to have accurate information. the fact that many people don't really compromises their ability to make decisions. where do we see this misinformation spread? sadly on social media. we released from my office the surgeon general's advisory on the harm of health
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misinformation. saying technology companies have a moral responsibility to step up and to make sure that they are limiting the spread of misinformation because it's costing people their lives. >> it's costing people their lives and it is also what is behind people behaving in such ugly ways in public, including in front of children. screaming at children, screaming at parents because they chose to wear a mask. somebody on a subway was screamed at. it's as if people not only want to take the crazy risks themselves but they want to demand we take the risks too. how can we communicate with people? is there a possibility to win people back who are there in your view? >> absolutely. i say that because i've talked to a number of people over the last many months who have been disinclined to take a vaccine. they've reconsidered and changed their minds. number one, it takes people hearing from people they know and trust, from family and friends, doctors, faith leaders.
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number two, you have to listen to them and not be judgmental. third, it takes some people time. you won't change people's minds early on. this is challenging, tough work. one thing that you eluded to, which is that the harms of misinformation are not just people not taking a vaccine. >> right. >> it also contributes to a feeling of more politicization. it pitts people against one another. without being together unified supporting each other, it's hard to get through that. >> it also helps that your personality instead of mine. you have a great personality. maybe i'll take you with me. u.s. surgeon general vivek murthy. >> we will work together.
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in 2017 crystal clan ton sent a text to another staffer that wrote i hate black people. like f them all. i hate blacks. the rag goes on a lot about cancel culture. there was a time despite a lot of weirdly dog whistles. they generally drew the line at i hate black people. there was the notion some conservative black people might sign up and open racism is a deal breaker for recruitment. indeed, clinton did leave turning point u.s.a. she told mayer that she had no recollection of those messages and they did not reflect her beliefs. the story gets kind of weird because ginny thomas, wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas is a black people hired her one year later. ms. clanton flaunted her
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relationship as a way to prove that the new yorker article hadn't taken her down. in a weird way in today's republican party it's kind of the opposite. clanton was offered a judgeship position. she would exchange racist remarks with other turning point staff. there is charlie kirk who was technically in charge of that work environment and all of that must be, you know, probably just coincidental and not indicative of anything going on except that kirk is on an anticritical race theory where he calls george floyd a scum bag but he lamented that minnesota has changed since it was built by scandinavians noting it's now being destroyed. scandinavians? the hits keep coming. the republican party shows black
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state delegates with ropes around them. matt gaetz has endorsed tucker carlson's white replacement theory and a candidate for lieutenant governor in georgia say people must assimilate. who is our? so if we're not even trying to hide it anymore, the openly racist elements of the republican parties are tonight's absolute worst. all in with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in," america was closer to a successful trump coup than we ever knew. >> i don't think i'm overstating the case. we were a half step away from a full blown constitutional crisis. >> tonight the damning report on trump's push to subvert democracy. the republicans who were aiding and abetting and the entire republican party who is fully and completely on board with the next coup. >> who won the ee lks in arizona, donald trump? >> we don't know. >> then the fallout in texas wher


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