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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  October 12, 2021 10:00pm-11:01pm PDT

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when you upgrade. okay, that will do it for us call today. tonight. i will see you again, tomorrow now it's time for the last word with the great lawrence o'donnell, good evening lawrence. >> good evening rachel, it will be midnight in washington, in a couple of hours, but it's going to be midnight in washington right here in the last word, with adam schiff talking about his new book. and thank you rachel for sending over all those questions that you could not use with adam schiff last night. that will get me through my entire interview with him tonight. >> if i didn't write 100 questions for every five minute
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interview that i, do i could probably get on to other things in, life but you know, me i over right. >> he actually made some other news, today so there's a bit more to talk about than just that. >> fantastic. go. indeed. >> thank you rachel. >> thanks. lawrence >> thank. you today our first guest congressman adam schiff, said the special house committee investigating the attack on the capitol on january, six will pursue criminal contempt charges against anyone, who tries to defy the committee subpoenas, insurrectionists, in suits and ties, is how adam schiff described the republican members of the house, who's rhetoric encouraged and helped provoke the attack on the capital of january six. one of the witnesses subpoenaed by the january six committee, is steve bannon, and adam schiff's new, book midnight in washington, how we almost lost our democracy and still could, he tells the story of steve bannon testifying to the intelligence, committee the
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house intelligence committee. well steven was still a member of the white house staff, this was the first year of the way house presidency, the house was controlled by the republicans in the chair of the committee, which was then -- on page 1:50, three adam shift rates, steve bannon showed, up for our testimony, one afternoon, with a list of 25 questions he would dane to answer in the entire investigation, notwithstanding the fact that he was a key witness. or stupefying, he admitted that he that the list was written by the white house, with a complete one word answer to each question, no. that's with the january six committee can expect, if an wednesday ban and actually shows up to testify to the committee. a year before the attack on the capitol on january 2020, congressman adam schiff stood on the senate floor, on the third day, of the first impeachment trial, of donald
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trump, instead this. >> the constitution can protect us, right doesn't matter anymore, and you know, you cannot trust this president, to do what's right for this country. you can trust he will do what is right for donald trump. he'll do it now, he's done it before, he'll do it for the next several months, he'll do it in the election if he's allowed to. this is why, if you find him guilty, you must find, that he should be removed. because right matters, because right matters. and the truth matters. otherwise we are lost. >> in his new, book midnight in
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washington, adam schiff, says during the attack on the capitol, members of the house, kept saying to him, you warned us, on page 12, he writes, fear was receding and anger at the president was quickly taking its, place one of my democratic colleagues came up to, me and it was the first to say when i would hear versions of four weeks to come, you said this would happen, she said, adam schiff describes what he was feeling, when the capitol police were trying to move members of congress to safety. he wrote. you need to get out. a police officer shouted. move. i made my way down to the well and join the remaining members and staff filing, out looking back at the doors being hammered to the rear of the chamber, glass now shattering. police officers pushed large cabinets in front of the doors in with soon drawn their weapons. you can't let them see you, a republican member said to me. he's right, another republican
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member said. i know these people, i can talk to them. i can talk my way through them. you are in a whole different category. in that moment, we were not merely members of different political parties, but on opposite sides of a much more dangerous divide. at first i was idly touched by these gop members in their evident concern. but by then, i had been receiving death threats for years, and that feeling soon gave way to another. if these republican members had enjoying the president and falsely attacking me for four years, i wouldn't need to be worried about my security, none of us would. adam shift rates in the first impeachment trial of donald trump in which adam schiff was the lead prosecutor in the senate trial. republicans proved to donald trump, that the republicans in congress would never confront, him never constrain him, and had been fully and successfully
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cowed. none of the republicans have been more coward, by donald trump, then the house republican leader kevin kevin mccarthy, who will become speaker of the, house if the republicans win back control of the house of representatives. in his book adam shift writes this about kevin mccarthy, i learned all i would ever need to know about kevin mccarthy on a plane, or to be more supersize, shortly after landing. about six months before the 2010 midterm elections, we were both heading back to washington from california happened to be seated together on a united airlines flight. although we are both from california, our districts are separated by almost 100 miles and we will never really had the opportunity to get to know each other. while democrats were still in the majority, the elections were shaping up to be tight, our margin was small, and there was growing doubt about whether we would retain that majority. during the, flay i express confidence that the economy would remain positive and we would continue to leave the
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house. not surprisingly, he took the contrary view. it wasn't much of a conversation, just the type of small talk you would have all waiting for a movie, any movie to star on a plane. i thought nothing of it. the next morning i picked up one of the hill newspapers. everyone knows that republicans are going to win the house, mccarthy and told a group of reporters after arriving at the capitol from our flight. he said that he spoke to me on the plane and even i admitted republicans would take back the majority. kevin, if we were having a private conversation on the, plane i would've thought it was a private conversation. but it wasn't, you know i said the exact opposite of what you told the press. i know, adam. was his reply, but you know how it goes. i was incredulous. no kevin. i don't. you just make stuff up, and that's how you operate? he just shrugged. that was simply how we operated,
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and how he still operates today. the man who warned us, in the first trump impeachment trial, that donald trump would do it again, has a new warning for us. republican legislatures, all across the country have continued trump's big lie about massive voter, fraud initiating phony new audits of the election results and replacing independent election officials, with the ones beholden to partisan legislatures. they are preparing the battlefield, and the struggle to overturn the next presidential election, if it doesn't go their way. and should they regain the majorities in congress, they just might be successful. the trump presidency was a stress test for our system, for the results must wake us up, the survival of our institutions, and the rule of law, depends on what we do next. leading off our discussion tonight is democratic congressman adam schiff to california. he's the chair of the house intelligence committee and a
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member of the january 6th select committee. he was the lead impeachment manager in the first impeachment trial of donald. trump's new book has been in washington. how we almost lost democracy, and still could. thank you very much for joining us tonight, we really appreciate, i want to begin with that story you tell about kevin mccarthy. because we see in that story, in 2010, 11 years ago, behavior, that is purely trumpian, if you just substitute donna trump for kevin mccarthy in that story, and usage around the, plane and you had that conversation, and then he went out and just lied about it. everyone would just go well sure. of course donald trump did the. and so, the idea that donald trump had to somehow turn kevin mccarthy, corrupt mitt and car thief into something he wasn't, is no longer my view, after reading your book. >> i think that's absolutely rates. it certainly, kevin mccarthy
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was made for a moment like, this but he is doing, is in he's always been a suspect, who he is today. in fact, one of the running themes as you know throughout the book, is something that robert carroll, the historian once said, that power does not corrupt as much as reveals, it may not reveal the best, of us but it reveals a lot about who we are. and power has revealed more and more, about who kevin mccarthy is. it revealed on sunday who stephen scalise, is when he was unable on chris wallace's program, to simply state the fact that the election was not stolen. it revealed about bill barr. it revealed a lot frankly, and the very inspiring and positive side about people like maria bonavista, and alexander vindman, it's not all stories of villainy, there are some real heroes that have emerged from this period, but you're absolutely right, kevin mccarthy was ahead of his time, but he has really made for a presidency that believes that truth is not true. that everyone is entitled to
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their own alternative facts, in the idea that he would ever step foot in the speaker's office, is just a terrifying. one >> tell us about that idea, if the republicans win, and get the house back in the next, election next, year kevin mccarthy becomes speaker, what does that mean for the country? in the next two years of the biden presidency? >> i think what that means is a couple of things. one is people have speculated well could donald trump actually be the speaker, because you don't need to be in congress to be speaker, the reality is, he would need to be the speaker, because essentially, kevin mccarthy would do anything donald trump told him to do. i think that's all too apparent. and, one of the most profound indications of, that is what took place after the insurrection, for a moment, you could see kevin mccarthy putting his finger to the winds, and sensing that the direction of the wind was running against donald trump, he adjusted
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incited a violent attack against the capitol, and he made statements attributing responsibility to donald trump. but it took all of a matter of, days before he went down to mar-a-lago to pledges undying fealty to donald trump once again. because it was clear that the wind was blowing in the other direction. and i have to say, among the most painful parts of this past several years to me, lawrence is the fact that after we had to endure that terrible insurrection, and we might i have turned the corner as a country. we had the absolute wrong person leading the republican party in the house, in kevin mccarthy, and even mitch mcconnell. who you can see struggled with, this and wanted to throw donald trump overboard, lack the courage and conviction to do, and now we are forced to suffer, this again, until we can expunged him from the political scene. >> did donald trump, in your, view corrupt the republican
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party? in congress or did he give them a chance to reveal who they really are? >> i think really both, it was really astounding to me, that someone is deeply flawed as donald trump, in a matter of for sure years or less, could completely remake one of america's great political parties, in his flood, image but he did it, and the reason he was able to do it, was because all too many of the republican leadership in the congress, did not turn out to care anything about anything they said they cared about. one of the most frequent questions i get from constituents and others around the country's, to the republicans really believe what they're saying publicly, when you talk to them privately? in the answer is all too often know. they do not, they don't believe in the ideology that they profess, they don't believe in conservative, values they don't believe in family values. it turns out they only believe in the maintenance of their own position and power. that is where power has
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revealed, in these last four years, and she, me it was a terrible epiphany, that these members, that i've worked with. mccarthy per se, but others who i respected, some of who i admired, because i believed that they believed what they were saying. it turned out not to believe it at all. and, to me, it doesn't matter how brilliant the constitution, is or how well crafted era laws are, if, as you played in that clip from the impeachment trial, if people don't give content to the provisions in the constitution. if they don't live the spirit which they were written, if they don't apply right and wrong, and the truth. then none of it is good enough to protect us. >> if democrats lose control of the, house in the next election. that means, that the january 6th committee, really only has about 13 months left, in which,
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to do its work, complete its work. what can you tell us about, where you are in that first round of subpoenas? there are reports indicating that two of the first subpoenaed witnesses are in some contact with the committee. mark meadows, kash patel, but it's not clear at all whether steve, bannon in the other two are in any contact with the committee about the subpoenas, and how will you enforce them? >> i think this steve bannon has been pretty public, about his unwillingness to cooperate, in any way and from my point of view, it's not up to him, he is required to show up, he's required to testify. and if he does not, and does not have a reason, a legal reason to profit which he doesn't, then we will hold him in criminal contempt. and we will refer that to the justice department for prosecution, that will be true of the other witnesses as, well
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if they do not comply. and, i think the reason why steve bannon, you read it from the, book the reason why he feels empowered to do, that is because for four years, we had a justice department that did not apply the law equally, bill barr, we had someone who was essentially running the presidents the, former presidents personal criminal defense firm. but the situation has changed, we now evidentiary general with integrity, we have a department of justice that believes no one is above the, law we have an administration that is not asserting privilege, to stymie the public from finding out what led the january 6th, and that gives me every hope and expectation, that not only will we move quickly, but that the justice department will also. >> what has not changed, is the full legal enforcement and the congressional subpoena like, this does take time, and if it becomes a matter of criminal
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prosecution, for defying that subpoena, we could be talking about years. >> civil litigation, lawrence you're absolutely, right the civil litigation took a, sheers almost two years to get the testimony finally. the weight of a criminal prosecution, i think has a very different impact on witnesses, and potential witnesses. and you are right, they could take even a long time to prosecute a criminal case. but you prosecute one criminal case, and every other witness that looks at that says okay, the department of justice is serious. the congress is serious. i better comply, because i do not want to face prosecution. it's a big club. and it's necessary, because for four years, effectively the rule of law was undermined, by the leadership of that department. in those days are gone. to me this will be a real test of the recovery of our democracy, if the justice
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department does not view anyone's being above the law. and that's fully my expectation. that they will uphold that principle. >> so if you're steve, been sitting home tonight, watching this, ignoring the subpoena that you and your committee absent to him. and he's laughing at this, how long will steve bannon be able to stay at home laughing about, this before he feels the weight of some kind of enforcement of that subpoena? >> we tend to act very quickly, with uncooperative witnesses, so i can't be specific, as to any one person, but, without any dissent, without any disagreement, all the members of the committee are quite uniformed, that we will not abide, delay we will not abide efforts to play rope a dope with us as we saw in the, past look, steve bannon, this one story about the last administration. to me it's so. telling man fronts for
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president on a platform building a wall that he says mexico will pay for. it's an absurd promise of course. he doesn't build a wall. mexico doesn't pay for, a bunch of his fellow grifters, including steve bannon, and start up a fund, a private fund to build the wall. they steal money from the supporters of the president. and what is donald trump do? he pardons bannon. no wonder steve bannon feels that he can go on with the grift. it's not donald trump's justice department anymore, it's the justice department that believes it serves the public interest, not the interest of the person of the president. and if steve bannon does not have that message, yet he is not paying attention. >> chairman adam schiff, thank you for starting us off tonight. i really appreciated. >> thank you. >> chairman schiff's new book is midnight in washington, it is how we almost lost our democracy, and still could. and coming up.
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the american medical association has filed an appears court brief in opposition to the new texas abortion law the attorney rule that brief, shannon zeldin, will join us next. n zeldin will join us next. will join us next. at vanguard, you're more than just an investor, you're an owner with access to financial advice, tools and a personalized plan that helps you build a future for those you love. vanguard. become an owner. this isn't just a walk up the stairs. vanguard. when you have an irregular heartbeat, it's more. it's dignity. the freedom to go where you want, knowing your doctor can watch over your heart. ♪♪ this is the sound of an asthma attack... that doesn't happen. this is the sound of better breathing. fasenra is a different kind of asthma medication. it's not a steroid or inhaler. fasenra is an add-on treatment for asthma driven by eosinophils.
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from the ground up, helping to make san francisco the greenest big city in america. last night the u.s. justice let's keep making a differene together.
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department, asked a federal appeals court, to prevent texas from enforcing the states new abortion law, while that law is being challenged in federal, core in its pleading that the justice department call the law and unconstitutional scheme, and said, if texas is scheme is permissible, no constitutional right is safe from state sanction sabotage, of this kind. last week in texas, federal judge robert pittman, blocked the law from being enforced, while it was being challenged in federal court, but two days later, federal appeals court reversed that decision and allow the texas law to remain in effect, bridge a miry,
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deputy director of the aclu reproductive freedom project told usa today, a legal fight has quote created devastation and chaos, in texas, where patients were given a glimmer of, hope before their appointments began getting canceled, it's really hard on staff and providers and patients, to have this whiplash you said, it's destabilizing, it's dehumanizing, and it really should not be happening. the american medical association, along with over a dozen other medical organizations, filed an amethyst, brief in the case written by our next, guess the brief says, that the texas abortion law, not only endangers the health and when being a pregnant women seeking, care but also, forces medical professionals to choose between long establishments effect ethical in clinical standards of care, and their personal and professional risk of being bankrupted by lawsuits.
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joining us now is sharon zeldin, who serves as counsel to the 19 medical organizations, and the amethyst brief filed against the texas abortion law. thank you very much for joining us, tonight we really appreciate it. your brief is fascinating, because one of the issues, in bringing this legal challenge, has been the challenge of standing, and standing generally meaning, you have standing to sue, and bring legal action, if you are somehow being harmed, it seems that the medical profession, is the target, of this law, you are representing in a sense the medical profession in this amethyst brief. >> that's right, in this amethyst, brief the medical organizations, which include the american college of obstetricians and gynecologists, the american medical association, american academy of pediatricians, and many many other leading medical organizations, are weighing in,
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to support the government's case against texas, this case the medical organizations are not asserting their own, briefs they're not bringing their own, soup they are weighing in to say, these issues are essential to the members of our organizations, and the patients that we serve. because the texas law, cuts at the very heart of the doctor patient or clinician patient relationship, interferes with safe ethical, medical evidence based care, and that's something that we should all be concerned about, both patients are seeking abortions to end, unwanted or unintended pregnancies, but also everyone, who is or could be pregnant in texas, is vulnerable, because of the way in which this law interferes with the safe evidence based provisional medical care. >> you've seen the arguments that the state of texas is making in this case so far, what is the most challenging
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argument, that you have to meet? that the state of texas is making here. what is the legally most difficult points that you have to get over? >> for the government, for the united states, government and its fight with texas, the initial fight is really a threshold question, can the united states government go into court and sue the state of texas, because the state of texas has stripped away individual rights, protected by the united states constitution. and, you see the united states in its brief, so the department of justice in its briefs, relying on some older cases, this is not something that frequently happens, but it does happen, and it happens in ways that the courts have recognized, and in ways that the courts have recognized that the united states government has an equitable right, a general equitable right, not written in the constitution, not written in federal statute. but one that has long been
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recognized, by federal courts in this country. that the united states can go into its federal courts, to protect the constitutional rights of its citizens. and that's with the department of justice's saying it has to do here. that's a tough argument, not because it's conceptually difficult, that's kind of the promise, at the very core of our constitutional. seen it's a tough argument because whereas to be made. it has to be made in the, circuit may actually be made in the supreme court. it's the made in courts that are attending is seen in other cases, challenging as the texas abortion law. to side with the state of texas, and to defer to, it's and to allow it to adopt and enforce this unconstitutional bannon aberration. i think it's a well rooted argument, but it's one that faces particular challenges. because of the -- that and given in the stand this issue. let's listen to what doctor i'm not said about her experience,
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with one patient. >> the first patient who i saw for the law went into effect, when we told her that we could see cardiac activity in her, she just curled up into a ball on the table and just started sobbing. and she asked if she could hold my hand. >> yeah. >> and that was all i could do for her in that moment. she is a college student. had a birth control failure. she was a person who wasn't in a situation where she could be pregnant. >> will the appeals court recognized the timing urgency in a case like that? when stories like that are being told every day? >> i certainly hope so. it is hard to think that a constitutional right that is more time sensitive, more intimate than the ability to
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decide whether or not to continue a pregnancy. and i'm so glad that we're hearing the story directly from doctors, and in some of the briefing in the u.s. versus texas cases. you hear some of the stories of patients who have been looking to get care during this period. and this was just unconscionable in the way that it treats women, girls, in texas. it is isolating. it separates pregnant women and girls from their families. from their friends, from resources who they can talk to about their pregnancy. why, because it's to all of those people a liability, -- a significant amount of damages. and patients know that if i talk to their doctors or families and friends that are putting them in jeopardy. and it takes away basics and essential reproductive care, an abortion is among the safest ones an essential part of the
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kind of reproductive care to their patients all the time. and in bending it texas is really endangering the health and the well-being all throughout the state. >> shannon sullivan thank you very much for joining us, i really appreciate it. >> thank you. >> coming up jon gruden, raiders coach, will join us on the biden agenda. in congress. ♪ i had a dream that someday ♪ ♪ i would just fly, fly away ♪
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temporary slump in polls, in september, president biden's pulling number appeared to be recovering. with the latest poll saying that his job approval of 48% approval. with this approval at 47%. and with voters perception of the economy being closely linked to presidential approval, it's good news for joe biden. that the most recent gallup
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poll finds that 57% of americans say their financial situation is good or excellent. the highest in 19 years. after the first pieces of the biden legislative agenda flew through the congress seemingly quickly. and delivered would felt like immediate covid relief system to voters. the progress of the biden infrastructure package has appeared to be slow going and noisy by comparison and. as democrats publicly with increasingly frustration have been negotiating with democrats. washington post jean washington says >> what i see is a pretty normal exercise in legislative given take, except that it's all happening within the democratic party, while republicans who, to holler and obstruct from the peanut gallery. when it comes to congress, things never go as quickly as the might. and there is always a moment when it appears that all this lost. >> joining us now is eugene
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robinson, surprise wedding calling this for the washington post. and host of the shark is so from the recount both are in the msnbc political analyst. and eugene robinson, i love your column about this because it does actually look like the normal legislative process. and the first speech through legislation that the biden administration and democrats were doing didn't look like the normal process at all because it was going so very smoothly. and that may have gotten some spectators out there spoiled into thinking that's the way it's always gonna work. >> i think that it did get some people. as you know, from your experience, that is not the way things work. 1.5 trillion dollars doesn't just assume through the congress. why in a matter of days, warmer weeks, it takes a long time to work this sort of thing out.
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there is a lot of give and take. and the democrats have very slim majorities. 50 6:57, the four groups in the house. and yes i think that the eased at which the rescue package went through, spoiled some people and made them forget what legislating is really like. and the other thing that sort of terrible charged this largely false narrative of a democratic doom and biden collapse was with the pull about a week ago, showing us approval at 38%. clinically a poll could pollster, but that poll is decreasing into a second outlier for all the polls since. so essentially, what they're polls show, the biden about 40 8:47, 40 9:46, 50 50. one of them show him underwater. much less way underwater than what's both. show nonetheless, my newspaper,
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our network of the news outlets continue referring to that poll as if it were sort of definitive status check on president biden. which now that we have evidence that it isn't. i don't like to mediate criticism because there are a lot of people who do that. but this just seems kind of crazy we to look at the world in a way that it really just isn't. >> john, my coverage of the biden two track infrastructure plan started off -- i can't fathom how you could do this, i don't understand on these two 7:40 sevens landed the same runway at the same time. i just didn't get it. and then i watched it go remarkably smoothly, and kind of very very surprised.
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especially, when they got to the point where they actually voted in the senate, all 50 of them voted for the 3.5 trillion-dollar budget resolution. and if you've got a problem with the 3.5, that is the time to have the problem. and they didn't. they voted for it. joe manchin kristen sinema, that made me think that this thing was going really smoothly. and now they're arguing. about the 3.5. they're deciding to do that at the end of the process instead of the beginning. after they have already voted for it. and so now we're seeing, what i consider, the realistic section of the legislating. >> yes, i've been going through the senate as it should be, and there's the senate as it. is i think you are familiar with. both the senate as it should be said that all the democrats vote for that budget resolution and then don't quibble with the numbers going forward. but the senate as it this is where joe manchin, and kristen sinema voted for us it is and
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used our leverage later. and here we are, i would like to add that a little bit of the same analysis, and i think you know that there is a lot right now, a lot of democrats of gone through this progress and got in this point. i number one think that they all think eventually, i'm think they believe this i don't think it's true, but they vote that both these bills will get. pass but there's also not a lot of them will have an enormous sense of momentum, and there's a lot of trust between the two sides. which is a little bit of the problem right now because the reality of the moderates and democrats both feel betrayed in various directions, and we have to eventually come together because we're gonna get this done. i would take my political analysis goes into the same direction on terms of eugene's, and the assessment that there is a world of is it. and the world as it should. beat there should be no sense, and perhaps i'm the last person that said that joe biden's is going to, collapse i don't think the democrats are in disarray. they are. not there are normal levels of whatever they. but i would say right now, if you go around and talk to house democrats, in competitive districts, they're looking at their numbers, and they are not happy right now.
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and there's a lot of concern about turnout next year, about the base being frustrated, about voters in the middle of the party being frustrated for a slightly different set of reasons. so what i just hear over and over again about what is reporting, is that the house of democrats are terrified of what's going to happen in 2020. two >> yes and one of the challenges is how to describe what they're doing, and last night on this program, we were a not shank or, had it the self until the segment, when she said that the democrats have to stop selling the recipe, and start selling the brownies. >> eugene, someone has to teach them how to do that pretty quickly. >> yes well you know i've complained for years and years and the democrats are just loudly at modern communication. strategic communication. they never come up with a win -- they never emphasize what this
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is going to do for you, rather than -- they are talking about these imaginary 3.5 versus 1.8. the talk about what is going to do for you for the constituents police. that's all i can say. >>, jean robinson, john human thank you so much for joining. us >> thank you. >> i'm coming up jason fermon was the president of trump's economic advisers, and he says that economic perhaps they are negotiating congress might be the last chance that democrats have to advance their agenda for a very very long time. that is next. (burke) i've seen this movie before. (woman) you have? (burke) sure, this is the part where all is lost and the hero searches for hope.
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where their choices that need to be made. that's the point we are at now. and be given there will be fewer dollars that will be spent. >> last, week in a meeting with house democratic house president said that they will have to lower their target from around two trillion dollars to get a reconciliation bill that can pass the senate. as part is the biden two track infrastructure package. today, speaker nancy pelosi acknowledge the lower overall spending target for that legislation. >> i am very disappointed that we are not going to go with the original 3.5 trillion dollar, which was very transformative. i have to make sure that we have a bill, which i also said, is that we have to have something that will pass the house and passed the senate. passed the house, pass the senate. and i'm not asking members to vote for something that has no chance the pass in the senate. >> democratic jason furman, has suggested that the democrats could take up another reconciliation bill next year
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to expand on with the might pass this year. jason furman, who served as the chair as president biden's economic advisers, told the new york times, quote >> the problem now is this may be the last train leaving the station for a long time. it could be five, ten, 20 years before there's another shot at a lot of these issues. >> joining us now is jason fermon, professor of the practice of economic policy at harvard's kennedy school. he served as the chairman consular of the economic adviser in the administration. professor jason furman thank you very much for joining us tonight. what do you mean five, ten, 20 years? how could there possibly be that kind of blank space, between these kind of legislative efforts? >> look, lawrence, most presidents get one big fiscal thing done. no, president biden got to. we got the recovery and the -- president trump got one, his tax cuts.
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president biden is on track to getting three done. enormous rescue plans, an infrastructure bill, and this reconciliation. bill which focuses on climate change and cloud care. so it is a. lot i'd love to see a lot more next. here i'd love to see more the year after. i just don't think anyone should count. on that >> yes, when i read that quote of yours today. i looked back and remembered that the clinton health care bill, the comprehensive health care reform bill, democrats dream 1994, fills in the house in the senate. doesn't pass, doesn't even come to a vote in the house. doesn't come to a vote in the senate. and it is 16 years later, that the democrats take up health care in the affordable care act. and in between nothing. not a single sentence of health care reform did the democrats try to advance in congress. >> yes, that is absolutely right. look at the waxman plucky
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change bill, in 2009. it passed the house. it failed in the senate. it is now 12 years later, the first serious legislative effort to climate change. now you can always couple things together. president obama did some things, administratively, using his regulatory authority. we have some tax credits extended. but it's taken 12 years since the failure of the last major climate legislation. again, i hope that that is not the case. democrats should keep trying again next year. if they need to compromise with republicans next year, they are. after they should try to do that too. i think they should move the ball forward. i just think you want to try to get all of your big things in now. you want to lock them in to be permanent. don't leave them at the whiles of the future congress. and unfortunately you are going to need to prioritize and make sure you do something really well. so that they contribute to
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lasting. >> i think part of the importance of what we are talking about right now, when you have unidentified here, is that this is what the argument is. about this is why the people who have been fighting for the bigger package, the 3.5 trillion dollars, have been fighting as long as they've been fighting. and why they are trying to hang on as long as they can to as much as possible, because i think that the recognize what you are talking about. this is their only chance for a very long time. >> he is, look, from an economic perspective, i'm an economist. we can afford 3.5 trillion dollars. we can afford even more, then 3.5 trillion dollars. including paying for some of it with tax increases, medicare reforms, some borrowing. because these are investment and interest rates are very low. from an economic perspective it can be big. but at large, all we can get his two trillion dollars, you can do a lot with two trillion dollars. you can dramatically reduce
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child poverty. you can take nearly a gig a ton of admissions out of carbon emissions every year. you can make health care more affordable for millions of people. so two trillion dollars in just better than nothing. two trillion dollars you can do really million and meaningful things if you prioritize and spend that money. well >> yes, and that is what the final legislative decision comes down to. there will be a number. it might be too. it might be somewhere in the neighborhood of two. everyone stares at it and realizes that this is it. we vote for this. or we get nothing. and that is going to be the moment when the democrats make their final choice about what they are voting for. >> yes, two trillion dollars in just better than nothing. two trillion dollars could be the restore for climate change, for children, for health care, again if you could get more than two trillion, that would be even better. if you can get three and a half,
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that would be wonderful. i just don't think that you can right now. you heard speaker pelosi say that you can't get that. so, focus not on the money, not on the dollars, but what comes out from trying to achieve. and as the press typed rings, we're going to need to be smart about that. you're going to need to prioritize. you're going to need to figure out how to do a few things well, and either focusing on children or climate change and on coverage of health care. >> professor jason furman, thank you very much for joining us tonight, i really appreciated. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back. >> we'll be right back see blood when you brush or floss can be a sign of early gum damage. parodontax active gum repair kills plaque bacteria at the gum line to help keep the gum sealed tight. parodontax active gum repair toothpaste you have the best pizza in town and the worst wait times. you need to hire.
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raising the debt ceiling that would cover the eight trillion dollar in increased at, that created by the trump presidency. a death that they approved during the trump presidency. that is tonight's last word. 11th hour with brian williams, starts now. brian williams, starts now well good evening, once again day to 266 of the biden administration. the white house appears ready to take a major step towards the next phase of this campaign, to get as many americans vaccinated as possible. an administration official confirming to nbc news that governors were told today, to start getting ready to vaccinate children aged 5 to 11, by early november. wolf comes in anticipation of the fda approving the vaccine for that age group, in the coming weeks. vaccines have already been approved for kids 12 and older. white house says it's already bought 65 million pediatric