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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  October 29, 2021 11:00pm-12:00am PDT

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tonight on all in. >> it's not gonna happen like you think it's gonna be have. it's going to be quite extraordinarily different. >> new clues in a coup plot investigation, as the murdoch empire in vance its own fictional reality. >> the helicopters have left afghanistan, and they've landed here at home. >> tonight, congressman reuben guy go, on just how close we came to a trump coup. >> in quds, when you leave the capital, you've lost. so i started texting every member i could, and all of our test chambers. >> then, the obvious minister
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perjurer wish republicans would stand up to congress continues. >> plus, the facts rhonda sanchez ignores on another covid victory lap. >> there are a heck of a lot of students and a heck of a lot of families across the state of florida that are better off today. >> and can mark circle bergh escape whistleblowers, regulars, and accountability inside the meta verse. >> yeah, just gotta find something to wear. >> all this starts right now. >> good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes, the most powerful person in conservative america's is 90 year old reprimand her, doc himself not an american, he's a founder and executive of a news corporation, which controls fox news the overwhelmingly -- monopolistic right-wing cable channel, where the vast majority of conservatives get their news. your premier doc has done
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incalculable damage to this country in the world over the course of his career, and he's ultimately responsible for what moves fox news says and does. he is the person responsible for all the anti-vaccine nonsense coming out of fox, that has led to untold thousands of unnecessary deaths. he is responsible for the increasingly dangerous rhetoric around january 6th that fox news is viewing, that it essentially seeks to either excuse it or dismiss it as some sort of falsify conspiracy, somehow perpetrated by the federal government itself. in fact, as of the is the topic of a special documentary series where host carlson, to be moving on fox the streaming service this week. >> ♪ ♪ ♪ the domestic war on terror is
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here, it's coming after half of the country. >> the helicopters have left afghanistan, and now they've landed here at home. they've been doing to fight a new enemy, in a new war on terror. >> white supremacists. false >> flags have happened in this country. ♪ ♪ ♪ one of which may have been january 6th. >> the trailer has rightly provoked outrage from all sorts of people, tucker's own colleague geraldo rivera, false flags bs, he's replying to a tweet from adam kinzinger from oil annoy of saint anyone for fox news must speak out, this is discussing, it appears fox news isn't even pretending anymore. as has republican congresswoman liz cheney that calls fox news out for giving tucker carlson a platform to spread the same type of lies the pro violence on january 6th. as fox knows the election wasn't stolen, and january six
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was not a false flag operation. the anti-defamation league is urging folks not to air the series, seen in a letter to the company we, we remain deeply concerned that the false narrative and filed conspiracy theories presented by carlson will so further division, and as a potential to animate violence. but, there is no indication that rubber murdoch plans on pulling it, even those wildly inflammatory, why would he? he's watched hundreds of thousands of people die, and that hasn't done anything, one of the driving forces behind the series is the false flag conspiracy theory about january six, when it comes from a man named garrett bt, then a may ring a bell. he actually worked for the trump white house as a speech writer, and he was fired from the white house for having ties white nationalists, he then went on to work as a speech writer for republican congressman matt gates, if you thought they saw matt gates speech and said that was really well gone, done that was that
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guy. then donald trump welcomed him back into the fold, well why not, no editing back to the board of the committee for the preservation abroad, as the group to see overseas u.s. holocaust memorials outside the u.s.. -- on his so-called news site revolver. any podcast or tv show that will have him, including, of course tucker carlson show. >> to what extent where the main militia groups imputed to the one six, so-called, capital siege, to what extent was there infiltration of those groups by undercover agents or informants, and what extent will we see the unindicted coconspirators who occupy senior positions in those groups. to what extent are those people being spared prosecution, on account of a pile relationship with the federal government. those two questions created thread, and when we pull that thread the ugly truth of that event, and perhaps even the
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country we live in, will be exposed. >> now, you see the technique there, it's very familiar, if you ever spend any time in conspiracy theory circles, he's just asking questions, to what extent is it possible that this is all up false flag, let's pull the threat. false flags are the most tried and true, also the laziest and dumbest form of conspiracy theory, that is various examples such as the 9/11 truther movement, which i got to see a close ally of, that believes it was staged by the bush administration. two right-wing radio hit was alice johns claiming the sandy hook shooting was a hoax. there's nothing new or interesting here, it's just the way that conspiracy theories work. but the intellectual incoherence about january 6th, has always been creatively, they call them patriots, in the words of marjorie taylor greene standing up to tyrants, and also it was a false flag, and also antifa. none of it is never made sense together, particularly when you listen to what's stephen, and one of donald trump's closest
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advisers were saying just days before. >> it's not gonna happen like you think it's gonna happen. okay, it's going to be quite extraordinarily different. and all they can say is strap in, the war room a possibly, you have made this happen and tomorrow's game day. his first term is ending with action, and a second term is starting with it, that we can guarantee. the fights in. people are getting revved up, people are getting fired up, people are getting matter, as they should. all are going to converge of that point on the sixth, we're all going to converge there, we've just got to impose our wills. >> now, we've learned a lot about january 6th, we've studied it and reported on it here at the show. and all the information we have seen, day by day, new information being revealed. is that it was exactly what it looks like. and organized event to overturn an election by the force of the mob, people who are inside the capitol that day and saw what happened are very clear about that.
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listen to how congressman ruben gallego describes would experienced that day in the new hbo documentary for hours at the capitol. >> i was an infantry man in the united states marine corps, i had to deal with some very aggressive crowds when i was in iraq. individuals themselves aren't usually a problem, but when they get collectively together and they create a mob, the mob is the weapon. i was ready to fight, i saw a lot of ship back in my day, but i was never going to die on the floor of the talking house of representatives. i was not going to take him out by some insurrectionist bastard, my plan was to stab someone in the ion in the throat and take away their weapon. fight to survive. i saw there were buses to evacuate us. let me tell you, when you leave the capital, you've lost. so i started texting every
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member i could, and all of our text chains, if they tell you to leave to not leave, you're safe for staying here, if if we get on those buses there's nowhere where we came back. >> this was the most serious attempt on american democracy since the civil war, i have to do is watch the footage, or listen to firsthand accounts of what happened that day. donald trump and rupert murdoch together as a pair, partners in a way, have been tandem created a world in which defending an excuse in or line about january six is a litmus test for being a conservative. today we learned that one of the few republicans when refused to go along with that, congressman adam kinzinger is not running for reelection, to be clear, adam kinzinger is a real republican. has a very right-wing conservative views, i don't like his politics at all, i'll just tell you, he voted with donald trump's position 90% of the time. i think there's basically nothing redeeming about the substantive commitments he has for how the country should be governed, except for the fact that he is anti coup.
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he is pro democracy. but that is now the defining issue for the conservative coalition. congressman ruben gallego is a democrat from arizona, you just heard him speak about his harrowing experience, from that clip on the hbo documentary for hours at the capitol, he joins me now. which is a mean, congressman. to have lies about that event, following the big lie of the election be used as the dividing line, the litmus test for wet essentially, participation an entrance into the modern-day republican party is. >> well, it means that the coup is ongoing. it means that the coup has moved from the rabble rousing nurse, those losers, there is want to be terrorists that showed up on january 6th, into the political realm, which actually does happen a lot if you follow terrorism, they sometimes follow themselves into politics. and there's going to be another attempt at this at some point. and it will be in the courtrooms, it will be in the
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boardroom as, but we're seeing with fox news, or will be in the voting booths, where they're making it more difficult for people to vote. or they're just going to cancel all together those elections, so as a very scary situation for this country, the insurgency has moved on from a bunch of people wearing camo pants to a bunch of men and women wearing brooks brothers, and it is probably more dangerous than white i saw on january 6th. >> in terms of what you did see. i was so struck by what you said in that documentary, i just wanted to sort of ask a follow-up, this idea that the buses to coming to evacuate you, that there was something in the moment a sense the you had, deeply, i think there's some reporting that indicated that mike pence had the sense to in a slightly different way. that, the stakes of staying or going were higher than just the personal safety or the optics. the stain in the capital, or leaving the capital, meant
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something about the actual transition of power in the u.s., as a properly constituted democracy. >> well yeah, it wasn't symbolic for me, that view of the buses, was because i left the secure room, to shelter some pressed that weren't allowed in the secure room. as i was staring at my window trying to assess what was happening, i think i saw 6 to 8 buses and i realized what was about to happen, but everything i've seen in the past, i've studied in the past, whenever the duly elected representatives leave the capitol, they lose. you look down to pinochet, in chalet, could see other examples across the country, the amount of rhetoric that i was hearing, reminded me of the lead up to the real genocide, that was the exactly that kind of messaging we're hearing right now, by the way.
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there is just a lot of things that we're adding up to me, to the point where this is more serious than it just a bunch of trump wannabe militia members that are storming the capitol. >> those comparisons are intense and heavy ones, and what i'm hearing from you is that is that you feel quite clear that there is fundamentally an illiberal, authoritarian faction that is forms, that is gain control of the republican party, that is not commence for bowl with liberal democracy in the way that we understand it. that its aims, whatever methods it will seek to achieve them are fundamentally intention with self governments and democratic control. >> this has been going on for a while, chris, i think what we're trying to see it, let's begin, this goes all the way back even prior to this election. when you saw the tea party movement, and you are at the protests of the tea party protests, i was at the first one observing it.
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what you saw were people trying to overthrow the government, because they didn't like the black president, we saw the rhetoric they were using, for example when i was on the state house, they're putting in legislation to overturn the right of citizens to vote for the u.s. senate. they wanted to have the state legislator do that from now on, this is been an existing part of the republican party, but the problem is the republican party in the corporate overlords have always managed to control it, now trumpism a is in charge of that, and the corporate overlords, the corporations and businesses they're giving up. they don't care if it's -- they will destroy democracy in the process as long as they're able to keep their profit margins. and so the only real way to defend ourselves, right now, it's for us to have a very vigorous democracy, and we get up the vote, and stop them from disenfranchising us, because
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ongoing, it's not arms, but its actual -- to diminish peoples rights to vote, it's going to use every legal means, more so than when we saw on january 6th. >> well you've got a very high stakes election in your state for secretary of state where there is been a candidate endorsed by trump, and they understanding whether implicit or sometimes explicit, sometimes a day, from a trump backed secretary of state candidate is, i am backing them because i have full faith that they will do white brad raffensperger was not in georgia. i am packing them with the understanding that when the time comes i will do what they want him to do. >> i have no doubt that mark finish him, who is a recent transplant from michigan, -- as of all arizonans do that, we don't all duda. if elected he will corrupt our
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process, he will do everything illegal he can to make sure donald trump wins. and there are many people like that all over the world. that's why i'm telling you, the insurgency, the coup, it's move beyond the streets, now it's moving into trying to get some of these men and women elected, it's the start scenario states office, everything they can, basically, because they know they can't win anymore on merit. they can't even win on their ideas because they have none, because all they -- so all they can do really is corrupt the ballot, and try to impose their idea of who should win against us, against isis in those people who believe in democracy, and they should cut across all politics at this point. >> congressman ruben gallego thanks for taking some time with us tonight. >> like i mentioned, republican congressman adam kinzinger, so a committee member and vocal critic of trump announced he won't seek reelection, if that sounds familiar, that's because
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let's keep making a differene together. the republican congressional caucus has shed yet another member, illinois congressman adam kinzinger, longtime trump credit is, one of just two republicans on the january six committee, making an announcement he will not seek another term and will retire from congress. that makes kinzinger the ninth
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congressional republican choosing to pick up and leave washington this cycle, he joined three other sows members and five senators, all republicans who are more standard pre-trump republicans. i have for some context, ten house republicans voted to impeach and the second time around, kids are is now the second member to retire. -- out of the 293 republicans in congress when trump was sworn in, 132 of them, about 45% are no longer in congress, or have announced their intention to leave. michelle goldberg is an op-ed columnist for the new york times, who will learn about how the mega revolution is devour in its own, and tim -- is the writer at large of the bulwark, who called -- a slap in the face for delusional republicans who want to pretend like it's anything but a pro instruction trump cult. tim kinzinger news is not
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surprising, but it is clarifying because he has really tried to carve out an identity as a conservative republican, i said this in the blacklist block, i do not like adam kinzinger is politics, i don't really agree with them on anything, i think they're bad, i would vote the opposite way in his district, i would happy they have a democrat run against him. but, he is on the side of democracy, and he tried to carve out this narrow space and, it's like the space just doesn't exist. >> i do like adam kinzinger's politics, not all of it, but a lot of it. i agree with you, it's a very slight disappointment with the democrats for this he got carved out, it's a little bit different in the gonzales iteration, gonzales retires basically for fear of the trump mob, he says he's tired of having that security walking into the airport. cancer situation is a little bit different, but here's the thing, because kinzinger has
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been at this tip of the spear on the anti trump stuff, he is with jaime on the january six commission, so there would've been no room for him. possibly him in the democrats cut a deal where he runs as an independent, but now we're getting to left-wing fantasy a little bit. there is no room for something like this in the party anymore. and i think to you intro, the additionally relevant part is it's not just the courageous people like kinzinger, it's the uncanny just republicans who went along with trump on basically everything, except for overturning the election, those guys are retiring. your portman's, and your roy blunt's, and they're being replaced by the your mauve josh menzel's, and you are pro insurrection maga republicans. when you have your concerns gone, and you're not courageous normal republicans, and they're all been replaced by maga republicans, that's a very different caucus. >> it's a great point, and it's like there's a bunch of different things at play here, michelle, that 45% number, i've
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been thinking about it all day. because that's a big amount of turnover. and even if you are not kids are, gurria chain, is you're not gonzalez, that guy dimension is not retiring, because it is wanted face a trump mob. even if you go along with it all, a lot of them hate the guy, clearly. and i think the kind of hate their own base, to be totally honest. they have a lot of contempt for the people that are there vase. and they're basically living this double life, that they find themselves on enjoyable, and the just going to -- >> the only thing that's sustainable is true believers, you're gonna get more marjorie taylor greene's that are playing the game. >> it's never been clear to me why i understand been in congress is a good job, it's never been clear to me why some people see it as such a good job that you would sell your soul and your country to stay
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there. look, i think that people like adam kinzinger got elected and had a very different idea about the republican base was, you write that he's very conservative, but he's conservative in the way that we used to think of republicans being conservative. he's very hawkish, concerned about fiscal policy, he's not a sort of paul realest culture warrior. and what's the republicans have learned over the past five years now, is that that's what the party cares about, all of that captain america foreign policy stuff, all of that low taxes, and kind of worried about deficits it's never been about that. it's always been about kind of culture war grievances, and so once trump was able to articulate that, it's not that he kind of changed the nature of the republican party's base
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as much as he revealed the preferences then there for quite a long time. >> and tim, you just mentioned they ohio senate primaries a great example. it is such an embarrassing spectacle, it's like really truly cringe inducing to watch these folks. and this is now become a thing, you've got this thing where the way to sort of get ahead is to be an elite product of the pinnacle top of the meritocracy, you're j.d. vance, is your ted cruz's, who then dress up in the most preposterous heaping of what they think is the populous costume. and then it works, that is the future. that is what will ultimately be the entire caucus. >> yeah, look, i don't think that on january 7th we would've sat around here chris and
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thought, oh boy in 2023 the republican caucus is going to be way more trump than it was on january 5th, that's exactly what's happening, we j.d. vance and -- but they're doing is ridiculous show, who knows what herschel walker is going down in sharia, and there is a guy named sean carnal in pennsylvania who -- to go along with his conspiracy monger-ing. but down at the senate, but take this down to the whole party, if you're in the student counselor on the school board, and you're kind of a normal republican who cares about tax cuts or whatever. are you going to stick around to lead a crazy mob yelling at you about the mask rule is you're having? so from the senate all the way down to the city council this turnover is happening. and you're getting either the performative vandal types, or the marjorie taylor greene types, and what's the distinction without a difference? >> i don't really know about parnell evans and the accusations they're, i want to
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put myself on the records there, i don't know what the accusations are. there are accusations against eric writings, let me just ask you this michelle, to tim's point. what you're seeing when you take a step back, aside from these individual moments, and the true down used to go, trump celebratory statement is, a very efficient machine that is borne of a whole bunch of things operating in parallel, trump, and fox, and the base. to just grind everyone out who is in that kind of way to produce a 200 proof, pure, complete monika faction as one of the two major parties in america over the coming next 2 to 3 years. >> going back to what's him said, i think a lot of people of thought the day after january 6th, there was such a reaction of people looking at the maga movement straight in the face and reacting in horror, and the risk stands a very
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brief sense that maybe the bubble had burst, and you had people resigning and people denouncing, you had these moments throughout trumpism, but the thing that they can't change is the base, and the bases desires so this is the party of tucker carlson, who is about to come out with this documentary sort of suggesting that this attack was a false flag, there is not room there is no anti insurrectionist caucus in the modern republican party. >> that's exactly. right it's also we realize the big light serves its purpose. because usually what happens to one-term presidents is they are branded as losers and they become radioactive. that's the normal course of the things. like, well, i'm going to take general forward, jimmy carton, george h. bush advice on anything. but that's the purpose of the big lie serves here. michelle goldberg and tim miller, thanks very much. coming up, what's the
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blueprints of a new college dorm tell us about the bleak vision of a billionaire led future? i'll explain right after this. we'll be right back.
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>> we have never had an argument in 62 years. and it's not that we agree on everything, but we literally in 62 years, we've never gotten mad at each other. >> that is warren buffett, one of the richest man on earth. and the billionaire ceo of the berkshire hathaway, talking about his right-hand man there on stage with him. his name is charles munger. is munger a 97 year old billionaire who is vice chairman of berkshire hathaway. he is a quote, amateur arctic attack. he likes to design buildings in a spare time. munger donated $200 million to the university of california, santa barbara, to fund a new dormitory. that's the kind of things that rich people do all the time. but here's the catch.
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instead of just naming the building after himself, which is what most rich people want, when they make that type of donation -- no, no, no. had munger another stipulation. he had to be allowed to disdain it, completely. he is the guy who wanted to design the dorm. he made some pretty interesting decisions. the building is meant to house 4500 students. that's a pretty large building. and take a look at the lay out on the inside. he crammed full of these little suites, as they are called. let's be clear. storms can often be almost present like in design. they're packing a lot of people into small areas. that's kind of what they are. but this is a real dystopian science fiction novel feel. tiny, little pod bedrooms containing nothing but a bed, a little desk and a fake window that's not a real window. there's light beamed through there. in fact, 94% of the rooms will not have functioning windows. and the unpleasant accommodations seemed to be part of the design. this is charles munger idea. quote, maintains the small
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living quarters will coax residents out of the rooms and into larger common areas where they would collaborate. the whole ordeal was enough to make one of the consulting architects for the dorm resigned in disgust, calling the project quote, insupportable from my perspective as an architect, a parent and a human being. so it could, as the vision of a single donor, the building is a social and psychological experiment with an unknown impact on the lives and personal development of the undergraduates at the university serves. we reached out to for munger comment on that statement. he said it is natural for architects to disagree. he told bloomberg that prioritizing windows that it partisan windows would've met lowering the buildings capacity. again, i don't know a lot about architecture. i don't really even know whether this would be a good or bad design. but this is kind of a glimpse of what it means to have a society and world run by billionaires. our dystopian present, if you will. it's not just storms that look like holding cells on the moon
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colony. but the fact that at a certain point, our ultra wealthy overlords just run out of things to spend their money on. you know, there's always so much you can do after they bought mentions, private jets, yachts, helicopters and baby yachts to take them to the yachts. so, what do they do? they dropped $200 million to cosplay as an architect and design a horrifying nightmare building. couldn't have munger just gone to space instead? speaking of billionaires, ceo of facebook, mark zuckerberg, introduces the world to the meta verse. the future of technological innovation or a sad hail mary from an increasingly out of touch social media platform? the truth design meta next.
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i'm size paroling, president of hair club for men, and these are just a few of the man who called our toll free number four booking about thinning hair, just colored toll free
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number now, and i'll send you the free booklet. we are not only the president but, also a client. >> that was the kind of ad i saw growing up, maybe a lot of people did, ever not versions of it, the guy who runs the business was to be in the commercials, the guys who runs of course pay because he is the boss he gets to be in the commercial, it maybe he's not the person you choose to be in the commercial. but i thought about when i saw this yesterday. facebook's re-brand has meta, unveiled after over a month of the worst press that country and he's ever had, it stars a guy who whatever his other talents, is the least charismatic pitch man i've ever seen. >> today we're gonna do something a little different, rather than focusing on this year's products like a normal year, we're gonna talk about the future. let's start by exploring with different kinds of meta verse experiences could feel like. starting with the most experience of all, connecting 50 full.
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>> hey are you coming? >> yeah, just gotta find something where. yeah >>,. all right perfect. >> there is been a ton of reaction, since the facebook rio grande news broke, like karen swisher who suggested the re-brand moving zuckerberg out of harm's way into the top of the holding company is perhaps the smartest strategy since he has since he has become the perceived -- if the rebrand works mr. zuckerberg will extending facebook deeper into our lives. if it doesn't, it'll be remembered as a desperate costly attempt to give a futuristic facelift to a geriatric social network, well steering intentional way from pressing society problems. we're very proud to have both karen ruch and kevin swisher, joining us tonight. karen let me start with you,
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because your point about the sort of founder syndrome here i thought was really interesting. and to me i think the reason we started with the size -- he is just so identified with the brand, and it does feel to me in which there is a sense in which no one can tell mark no and that is shown by the fact that he can shop in these things, they don't find particularly compelling, i wonder what it means that he remained so utterly central to this >> company. that is. he is central to the company. he's the controlling she'll here older. he cannot be fired, he cannot be removed. he makes all the calls. and therefore he puts himself in the commercials. i suppose styling himself after steve jobs, except not. obviously. steve jobs was compelling and interesting impassioned speaker when he would introduce our tax. in this case, you're right. he's not very good at it. and that is one of the problems he has throughout the rest of the company in that he's making a lot of decisions that are rather serious for the company. and some of them aren't the
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best decisions over the many years. now he's talking about the future and like kevin wrote, it's got a lot of -- i thought it had a lot of aol vibes, back in the day when they're trying to stay relevant. microsoft has done this before when they were in trouble and here we are again. >> yeah, that point about the future. kevin, you wrote -- even writing about obviously we have the facebook papers and there's been all this reporting about it. this is an amazingly powerful company. mark zuckerberg is a powerful purse planned. he makes individual calls about should we do something about collection disinformation in spanish. where are we on the ethnic cleansing that's happening in burma. i mean, it's astounding if you can imagine it. your counter intuitive take is that the paper showed in some ways weakness. issued some desperation on the part of the company. i could smell that coming off this video a little bit. explain why you wrote that? why you wrot>> the whole video e
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facebook's midlife crisis. like it's trying to say look, we're not the same old facebook you've known. we're cool now. we dyed our here. we got a new wardrobe. we bought a comfortable. this is the new meta. and it wreaks a little bit of desperation. what we saw on the facebook papers was lots of really hard evidence, statistics and data, showing that young users especially are fleeing facebook into a lesser extent instagram. that's been happening for several years. but it's really sped up, at least in the u.s.. so, what is worrying them internally is that they can't seem to get young people interested in their products. they're losing to tiktok. they're losing to snapchat, when it comes to people. that's a really valuable market for them. that's whatever tigers want to reach. so, this metaverse thing is in some ways, to say hey, we got this new area we think will appeal to young people. we're going to put a lot of money and investment and resources to try and make more of it. >> on that, kara, that to me is
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what is dangerous. the combination of power and desperation is always very dangerous. right? when you've got a lot of power, which facebook has, but you also feel like you're being stocked and you feel -- that's when you start to do everything in your power to increase the numbers. we've seen some of that in the facebook papers. when you're thinking about we need to boost engagement, it's a kind of whatever it takes by any means necessary mindset. and that could really lead to some dark places. and that could>> that's always r mindset. is not a new, fresh idea for them. they've been a high growth if mindset throughout their history. they've had the small traffic accidents along the way. usually they are fine, everybody else is injured. i think one thing that is interesting here is the idea of a metaverse is a huge idea. and a lot of really creative people are going to contribute to it. a should be a much bigger thing than one company. someone pointed out this is a big land grab on their behalf. that said, i showed this to my
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kids. who are 19 and 16 and they laughed. they're not going here. they're not going to mark zuckerberg's metaverse. but they are -- people are interested in this idea because it's a big idea to combine physical and analog. apple is working on stuff, amazon is working on stuff. they're all working on this idea, but it will come from someone not facebook. somewhere else. the concept of it. which has been around, by the way. this is not a new concept. . >> yeah, i read a interesting piece in the atlantic about people working about something along these lines all the way back in 1997. kevin, maybe you could give a little bit of what it actually needs. i think it is a little hard to get your head around. my understanding is, it's essentially an immersive virtual worlds in which you interact with other people and maybe there's a we hear that you physically interact as well as virtually? as virtual>> yes, it's a little confusing. the meeting has shifted over
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time. the original concept was coined in a novel by neil stevenson. a sci-fi novel called snow crash, decades ago. it basically was this immersive virtual world where you bark virtual goods and had virtual avatars and went to virtual parties. it was this immersive virtual world,. the way facebook is using it is a little confusing. but it means the are and glasses that you would wear that would protect things on the environment in front of you. the ability to seamlessly flow between talking with your friends and going to a concert in the er, talking to dinosaurs and whatever else you would be encountering there. but this is basically their catch all term for things that are new to them, that they're working on. emerging technologies. and i agree with kara, i don't think this is actually going to appeal to young people. but i do think the that ideas like this will happen and will come out in the next few years. and it will be really interesting to see how facebook reacts to that. >> all right, kevin roose and
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kara swisher, thank you both for your time. >> thanks a lot. >> thank you. >> coming up, florida governor ron desantis actively undermined measures to protect constituents from coronavirus. thousands paid the price with their lives. so, why are conservatives trying to make him into a pandemic here? that's next. ♪ this is how we do it ♪ (tools drop) (squeaking sound) ♪ this is how we do it ♪ turns out, montell jordan knows how to do almost everything. and it turns out the general is a quality insurance company that's been saving people money for nearly 60 years. ♪ this is how... ♪ i got it, i got it, i got it. for a great low rate, and nearly 60 years of quality coverage make the right call - and go with the general. you don't get much time for yourself. so when you do, make it count with crest it protects the 8 areas dentists check for a healthier mouth. the #1 toothpaste brand in america. crest.
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>> just a little follow up on something earlier in the show. you may have heard one of my guess, tim miller, mentioned something about sean parnell who's one in for senate in pennsylvania. we cannot confirm those charges. i just wanted to be very clear about that. i don't know if tim knows something we don't, that there's no public record we
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were able to find about that. yesterday, the washington post reported that he is in the process of a divorce and that-y domestic dispute with his wife involving protection from abuse orders that were later lifted its. he recently tried to seal his divorce records, but a judge ruled that much of his record can become public. fuller this republican governor, ron desantis, has been congratulated in right-wing circles for the way he is handling covid in his state. he reels against mask and vaccine mandates. he pushes antibody treatments which again, are effective as far as we know, for the sake. but instead of pushing the vaccines to prevent illness in the first place. here's a quick reminder of where desantis got the sunshine state. florida is ranked seventh overall out of the 50 states for covid deaths in this country. nearly 60,000 floridians have died from the virus under governor desantis's watch. and many of them during a massive delta spike that came after vaccines became widely available. thankfully, after that big
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deadly we've, cases have significantly declined. so naturally, desantis is taking a victory lap. as the orlando sentinel put in a new op-ed, quote, it's like a fire fighter tossing a bucket of water on a house that has already been burned to the ground and then declaring victory. what a fraud. what he phony. nancy's is nancy ancrum the editor of the miami herald, which also published a new op-ed and she joins me now. nancy, i have to see, there's always been a lot of attention on desantis and his covid response and i think earlier, there was a little bit of a -- that he had opened the states earlier than some others had. and the state was middling. it hadn't had the level of outbreak and death that you might anticipate, given how forward he was an opening things up. but it is very hard it is to defend the record now after what you're steve has just been through. what you're >> oh, absolutely.
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we have been through this now, for the past 18 months. one of our first editorials in march 2020, was headlined, people are dying from covid and your state governor, act like you give a damn. and it has been one abomination after another. in terms of hiding data, manipulating data, protecting some businesses while throwing others under the bus. not talking about vaccines will making sure that people who do support him and support him with their dollars got vaccines first. and now, we have someone who is actively tied the hands of local municipalities and their leaders from enforcing, imposing any kind of mandates on masks, on vaccines. and now he is looking to call a
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special session to make sure that businesses that do want to impose any kind of mandate can be held medically liable if someone gets sick from a vaccine. so, yes, crazy ville. >> i want to read from that op-ed. he has every motivation to in nor the facts and continue to stoke anti-vax fervor. his policy proposals are usually followed by a fundraising pitch from his campaign to potential donors. that model has worked for desantis, who's outrace his democratic opponents in the past few years. on the vaccine front, one of the things i found really sick, frankly, is it's a very hard to flirt with anti vaccine mandates without also being anti vaccine. but he's now had two events where he is up next to a person. in one case, a random individual. and another his own surgeon general. basically making an anti vax case. not just the mandate, but seeing something like we don't know what's in it and things like that. that is the messaging coming
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from the governor of your state. as far as i can tell, unless i'm getting it wrong, and he's doing lots of pro vaccine events that were not covering. events that were not covnone >>. yes, he has aligned himself and surrounding himself with anti mask, anti vax, leaders. including our surgeon general, joseph lot of pulled. harvard educated doctor, but not educated, no experience in public health. he too has gone down the path to crazy ville, refusing to wear a mask. i think earlier this week, maybe it was last week, when he was meeting with a democratic state senator who is about to undergo treatment for breast cancer. so, she is very vulnerable. very immunocompromised. he has pushed alternative treatments. he is just, as we said, he is the perfect pandemic-era
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surgeon general for the governor. but for the rest of us, not so much. >> nancy nancy ancrum from the miami herald. thank you so much for your time tonight. >> thank you very much. >> that does it for all in. you can catch us every week night at 8:00 right here on msnbc. >> when my mom came in, she said, nikki's not here. where is she? because it seems funny. in the bottom of my heart i knew something was really, really wrong. >> he looked underneath the sage brush and saw what he thought appear to be blood. >> a high school beauty found dead in the desert. bound, buried. >> what did that say to you? >> a great deal of rage by someone. >> he looked like your average high school student. tall, clean cut, polite. >> a teenager with two sides. >> he would yell at her. he would be pushing her around. >> a puzzle seemingly solv