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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  November 9, 2021 10:00pm-11:00pm PST

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that former president donald trump cannot block the january six investigation from getting his white house documents and records around the january 6th attack on the capital. he tried to assert executive privilege, the judge rejected that. he tried to claim the demand was over broad and unrelated to the public interest. the judge shut that down as well. this ruling, coming down, just this hour, we will have more head. undoubtedly. but now it's time for the last word with lawrence. >> good evening rachel, i was hoping it took another 30 seconds so i could try to read another page. >> it was a well written ruling, it was like a novel. >> i started reading on my phone, as i was walking down to here. i just got it on paper. here is the great news, for both of us, our first guest tonight is lawrence tribe, he has been reading that. he's going to translate all of it for us as we get into it. but it is a very important and
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quickly arrived at opinion by the judge. i he has been moving in a way that we haven't seen the judicial process move in washington. certainly during the trump era and what is now the aftermath of the trump era, legally. and it is really striking compared to save the way, merrick garland, is moving, or not moving. on the referral of prosecution for contempt of congress by steve bannon. >> and it is important, because apparently, the garland justice department is also not moving on what the january six investigation is moving on. which is, who done it? who organized it. who made it happen? who devices theory that if you sent a mob into the capital, specifically on january 6th, mike pence would be the pressure point that you can break and thereby undo the exit election results? the question of who orchestrated the attack, and for what purpose, is something that apparently the justice
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department is not looking at. the congress is. the congress is under the political control of the democrats right now, but if that changes, and if kevin mccarthy any, or whatever republican becomes house speaker, they'll get of rid of this investigation immediately. so to put teeth in that investigation, to make sure they can enforce their subpoenas and get their documents and stuff, it is really important, and really good but the courts are moving quickly because otherwise the justice department isn't otherwise acting that the republicans will shut this down as soon as they get their arms around. it >> the former watergate prosecutors can tell us that the courts moved fairly quickly in those days. >> yes. >> they brought it up to the supreme court what seemed like in a matter of days, but what was actually weak. but in a short period of time, we've grown accustomed, two a while he's been subpoenaed so it's going to take a year or two to figure out whether this congressional subpoena is going to be upheld. it has just been a crazy, i
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think, waste of time. and in the process, this should not have to take that long. >> to the extent that this process, the congressional oversight process, and the investigational progress, is something that we should all believe in the merits of and the legitimacy of. you sort of want to be able to count on people having those good civic feelings about it, but when you're dealing with bad actors who are very happy to destroy not only, all the norms of american life, but also to push the limit on what you can get away with, then people will push it all the way to the limit. bannon, i'm sure, doesn't care about the prospect. they don't care about violating a contempt of congress citation if it is going to result in a prosecution seven years down the road. the assume that trump will be in office and part of them again. the delay of this is a form of injustice. and to see him moving quickly
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is a form of accountability. >> one of the things i'm going to ask laurence tribe about, is it possible that merrick gall learned -- that he will either feel strengthened or was waiting for one round of judicial opinion on this claim of privilege so that he can cite that in his moving forward on bannon. because bannon is basically trying to live under this trump privilege claim. >> right, that is a very very good question. and if trump is going to appeal this ruling to the d.c. court of appeal, which is the circuit court of appeals for which merrick garland was chief justice before he became attorney general, is this district court ruling going to be enough, or is he going to want to hear from his colleagues on the court that he used to lead. in that case, will he want to wait until the supreme court
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weighs on it as well? being able to talk to somebody who knows merrick garland well, would actually be in advantage on a night like this. >> he has been listening, so i will tough to ask him any questions. i'll just have to say go, because he knows what we are wondering about. this is one of those lucky booking nights where we already had him, so we are going to start in with laurence tribe,. >> hi professor tribe, this is going to be great. >> as we were discussing, the pressure really on merrick garland multiplied ten times today when the house select committee investigating the january 6th attack on the capitol issued ten more subpoenas to former trump administration officials, all of whom, might defy those subpoenas as steve bannon already has. for 19 days, after the house representative referred steve been into the justice department for criminal
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prosecution for contempt of congress, we have been watching, quote, garland's failure to act with dispatch to hold accountable under the law. that criticism of merrick garland comes from his former teacher, harvard law professor laurence tribe, will be our first guest tonight. 19 days i. eight days is how long it should take at most, eight days. a 1983, reagan administration officials, defied a subpoena, and the house voted unanimously, republicans and democrats, to refer the case to the reagan justice department for criminal prosecution of the reagan administration official and it took exactly eight days. for ronald reagan to prosecute and -- the pressure on merrick garland's self imposed by merrick garland because he has failed to act with dispatch on what is a legally obvious
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choice. he has created pressure where there should be none. the ten new subpoenas sent today by the committee included subpoenas for people who are already very comfortable violating the law. as rachel just mentioned. stephen miller, was one of 13 sided today in the special counsel 60 page report about, quote, willful disregard for the law, that included repeated violation of the hatch act, which were, according to the special counsel, especially per niches. former press secretary, we kayleigh mcenany also received a subpoena today. and appeared as a violator as the law's. the committee's letter accompanying the subpoena to kayleigh mcenany, she quote, made multiple public statements from the white house and elsewhere about purported fraud in november 2020 election, which individuals who attacked the u.s. capitol echoed on january six. another recipient of the
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subpoena today is johnny mcentee, who joined the trump 2016's volunteer, then he became donald trump's body man, which the conduct amping meeting. he literally carried the candidates bags. this he was hired at the white house at 29 years old, becoming the house personnel director with organizational jurisdiction of nearly 4000 appointees in the branch. an exit from his new book in the atlantic, they described what johnny mcentee, this way. just 29 when you got the job, he'd come up as trump's bodyguard, the kid who carry the candidates bag. one of trump's most high-profile cabinet secretaries described him to me as a idiot. but in 2020, his power was undeniable, trump knew he was the one person willing to do anything trump wanted. as another senior official told me, he became the deputy
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president more than anyone else in the white house. his johnny mcentee, was trump's man through and through. a man who rose to power out of precisely the moment when america's democracy was falling apart. the committee's letter to johnny mcentee states, you were reportedly president the oval office when giuliani, justin clark, former president trump, and former vice president pence discussed the audit process in georgia and listened as giuliani suggested seizing dominion voting machines because of fraud. here is what house select committee, benny thompson told chris hayes tonight about the latest round of subpoenas. >> 16 individuals we have subpoenaed this week have has asked as to what occurred before january six as well as what occurred on january six. we think it is incumbent upon
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the committee to get them on the record in sworn testimony as to what actually occurred and what did they do during that time. the people we wanted to talk to directly, now, are people who we think have evidence as to what really went on in terms of the planning. >> yesterday, what was the justice department's 18th day of silence, the attorney general was asked about the referral of steve bannon for criminal prosecution >> can you provide the status of the referral for mr. bannon where you are on that? >> no. >> this is a criminal matter, some ongoing examination of the referral and, as you know, the justice department doesn't comment on those. we evaluate these in a normal way that we do, facts and the
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law. we apply the principles of prosecution. >> and we could not be more fortunate leading off our discussion tonight is laurence tribe, university professor of constitutional law at harvard law school. he has won 35 cases in the united states supreme court. professor, i hope you heard your eager students, rachel and i discussing the judges opinion at the beginning of the hour. please we've together for us your analysis on the judges opinion and what that might mean for merrick garland's decision about the criminal prosecution referral for attempt of congress by steve bannon. >> glad to lawrence. i did hear your conversation with rachel as i was finishing reading the remarkably powerful opinion by the judge. it is a 39-page opinion, dissecting closely all of the arguments that was made by
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donald trump's lawyer claiming that even though he is no longer the president, he has executive privilege to prevent the turning over of hundreds of government documents, presidential documents, presidential logs, information about what he knew and when he knew it. that somehow, he can prevent turning that over. she rejected that argument. we only have one president at a time. and that president is not donald trump. the current president has to weigh the claims of executive privilege which are designed to encourage confidential advice for the president. well against the needs of the country, in particular, in this case, the legitimate needs in congress to find out why the coup was attempted and why the
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insurrection occurred, and what the role of the president and the presidents high lieutenants was in doing all of that. not the only thing that i can imagine my former student, merrick garland, thinking as to why he hasn't -- already. and i think he should have. he smart enough. the cases clear. the statute says that when congress refers someone who is in contempt of congress, refers them to prosecution, the u.s. attorney should convene a grand jury. the only possible argument is that there are a couple of opinions of opinions in the legal counsel. one in 1980 and one in 2008. those suggest that when executive privilege protects the assertion by someone that he or she cannot comply with the congressional subpoena,
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then the department should not prosecute. perhaps, merrick garland being a good lawyer and wanting to dot his eyes and crossed his t's was waiting to hear a court say executive privilege doesn't apply to the former president when the current president doesn't assert that privilege and when there is a legitimate need for the information. if that is what he was waiting for, he got it tonight. and if he does not move immediately, it will be inexcusable. he will, in all facts and purposes, he will be obstructing congress. he will be preventing the effectually shun and legitimacy of congressional investigation. because all of these guys who are getting subpoenas's have no particular's sense to comply. stephen bannon can get away would stonewalling, not even
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showing up, being in contempt of congress, saying that he's waiting for some judicial signal. he certainly got it tonight. if nothing happens to the guy why, should clark who is also been subpoena, why should eastman? why should any of these people comply if there are no consequences? if it's just like a deer john letter, show up please. that is not with these subpoenas are. and when congress returns a contempt citation and ask the justice department to perform its constitutional function, there is just no excuse for any further foot-dragging. i know a number of former u.s. attorneys who have tried to make merrick garland look good. he is a good guy. he's got a lot of integrity. they have tried to say, maybe, he is trying to make sure
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everything is in order. there are's -- there is no order. merrick garland should go ahead and not get in the way of this absolutely vital investigation. >> donald trump's lawyers are going to appeal this decision by the district court judge. take us through the appeals process. >> they are going to first ask the judge, herself, to issue an administer of stay claiming that she really shouldn't be so sure of herself. she is already explaining that there is no basis for a sting. a state can be granted if there is a probable outcome on appeal. that's a reversal of what the judge did. that is not going to happen. a stay can be happen if there is irreversible harm to the person who wants to turn over
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documents or show up to testify. here she is quite clearly shown that there is no harm. was it is not his private documents, these are all government documents. during the or argument, in court, when she pressed trump's lawyer, will what's the harm to your kind as a citizen? trump's lawyers said, it is executive privilege. no, i have already explained that that is up to the current president. you have lost that one, she basically predicted. and of course, that's what she did. so what is the harm to your client as a private citizen? these artist tax records? these aren't tax records? so there are absolutely no basis for us today. so what will happen he will go to a court of appeal, he would ask the court of appeal to turn over the documents at the end of this week. it will all move very very fast. i don't think the court of appeal has any basis to grant him a stay. and then the documents will be turned over in the case will be
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moved. they will still try to drag it to the supreme court, i can't imagine this court finding anything as to rule for him. i can't imagine even the three justices that he put on the court doing that, so i think, you know, the fat lady has some. the music is over. and he has to turn over the documents and i think that bannon has got to be prosecuted. that will require an indictment by this attorney general, the grand jury. the body of the house to return the indictment. i think we are about to watch a very rapid show. professor was laurence tribe, so lucky to have you with us tonight, i really appreciate it. >> thank you. >> coming up, joe biden, chuck schumer, have some very good news today in their fight to keep the senate away from mitch mcconnell's control. apparently, they have mitch mcconnell to thank for that news. that is next.
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the united states senate by 1017 votes in 2016. the year donald trump won the election. democrat maggie hassan defeated kelly iota, by just 1017 votes and gained a seat for the democrats in the united states senate republican senate leader
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mitch mcconnell has been eyeing new hampshire as a possible pick up for next year's senate race. against maggie hassan, and the obvious candidate to win that in the new hampshire senate speaker republican was new hampshire's three term, republican governor, we chris sununu, who won his last reelection last year by 22 points in the state that joe biden won by seven points. today, governor chris sununu, his father served as governor of new hampshire and before serving us the first president bush, white house chief of staff announced that he has decided not to run for a job that could send him to washington. to work for mitch mcconnell. >> my responsibility to the gridlock in politics of washington's to this edition of new hampshire and i'd rather push myself 120 miles an hour delivering from new hampshire than to slow down and end up on
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capitol hill than being partisan politics without results it's a much slower pace. and frankly too often doing nothing, is considered erwin. >> governor sue new will remain in new hampshire, administering the benefits of the biden infrastructure bill, which the president will be signing into law next week. and democrats are now feeling much more comfortable about holding on to the senate seat in new hampshire, in holding on to control of the united states senate, after next year's elections. joining us now, is the senator who christen you knew chose not to challenge. democratic senator of new hampshire, she's a member of the senate finance committee. senator hanson thank you very much for joining us tonight. i feel like saying congratulations, as if there's been some kind of a primary win at this stage. but this is a very important message it seems, about both washington politics and new hampshire politics. >> thanks for having me on lawrence. it's good to be with you.
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look, my job is to listen to the people of new hampshire. and deliver for them on the issues that they say matter. my focus on supporting small innovative businesses, and keeping our state in our country say, if i want to make sure that we are expanding new hampshire's economy, and lowering costs for families, that work doesn't change. depending on who my opponent's, and whoever my opponent is, it's still going to be a really tough race. we are an independent place a purple place. >> i want to take a look at a recent poll that shows what this race might have looked like if chris the new new had gotten an. it even though it won by 22 points in his last election, he did not have that kind of lead over you. it shows kristen who knew at 46%, it shows you at 41%. and then the unknown factors for other voters. that's not much of a lead. it certainly within the margin of error.
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that is a functionally tie. this was as you say, even if kristen you knew gotten, it was going to be a tough race. what do you think new hampshire voters, a year from now, will be concentrating on? in terms of evaluating whether to send you back? >> the job is always to be engaging with voters. talking with what's important. today i was in manchester, standing in front of a river next to a highway interchange, with a jam downstream. and, a bridge right behind us. and that really was a way to focus on how important, the infrastructure package, the bipartisan package that we just passed into law, is going to be. it's a game-changer for new hampshire, it's a game-changer for our country. it will let us move forward and create jobs, and grow our economy, and compete in the
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21st century. what my constituents are looking for, is people coming together, getting things done, and delivering. it's important for our economy. it's important for a quality of, life it's really important to show people that democracy can deliver. that's with this is about, i have a strong record of reaching across the aisle, getting things done, that's the case all be making to new hampshire voters. the really important thing here is to continue to engage with people, and listen to what's on their minds. and let them know that you will always stand up for them and be an independent voice for. them >> what's it chuck schumer say to you today, about chris's new new deciding not to run? >> i think senator schumer knows that new hampshire is always a really competitive state. again, our job is to work together, to reach across party lines, and to focus on what matters to our constituents. we've done the bipartisan infrastructure package, we got the bipartisan endless
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frontiers act that focuses on american innovation and manufacturing, addressing our supply chain issues. we got that done in the spring. the american rescue plan, cut taxes for working families, we want to continue that. we have more work to do. but at the end of the day, that is the focus now. how can we make a difference for the american people. how can i make a difference for those who want to get back to work. see their kids back full-time and school. and really have the opportunity to work, hard get ahead, and stay ahead. that's what we talked about. >> there's a lot of polling data that shows that people do not, on something like the infrastructure bill, the average voter does not know who voted for it and who voted against it. they don't know that the reason that road is being repaved over there is because of the vote that you cast. how do you communicate all of that in new hampshire? >> you go out into the state and you talk to people about
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what's the infrastructure needs they experience are. this infrastructure bill, not only fixes highways, roads, bridges, dams, as i was referencing before, but this is about getting high-speed internet to every corner of new hampshire. a state that is struggled to get the kind of overall internet service that would allow a small business to start up just anywhere. and so, you go out, you engage with people, i did that before we pass the infrastructure package. i was in new hampshire talking with people about the difference it could make him what they needed. we know that climate change continues to be a major threat, something we have to address, we've addressed some issues related to climate change in the infrastructure package, strong and resilient clean energy grid, these are all things that you just have to go out and talk to people, they're tangible for people, and at the end of the day this is again just being engaged with voters
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and listening to them as well as talking with them about what you've done and what you hope to be able to do to help them build the life they want for themselves and their kids. >> new hampshire senator maggie hassan, congratulations and still not having a republican opponent in your reelection campaign. thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> thanks so much lawrence for having me. >> thank you. coming up, new hampshire's republican governor has decided that washington is where republican political careers go to die, while they have to defend the homicidal fantasies of sikh members of congress, like paul goes arc. more on that next. more on that next. more on that next. its innovation organic ingredients and fermentation. fermentation? yes, formulated to help your body really truly absorb the natural goodness. new chapter. wellness well done. you know how some carriers give you so little for your old or busted phone, you just end up living with it!? i don't think so. verizon lets you trade in your broken phone
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sununu, shocked washington republicans today by announcing his decision not to run for united states senate. he said that he did not want to go to washington just to participate in republican gridlock, his critical comments about the set, it were aimed at
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the way mitch mcconnell has made the republican party the party of no in the senate. he did not specifically attribute the gridlock in the senate to mitch mcconnell, but the fact that he did not alert mitch mcconnell, about his decision, before he announced it publicly, is in protocol terms, a sharp rebuke to mcconnell. by an experienced politician. the new hampshire governor made his announcement today, about not wanting to go to washington on the same day that republican congresswoman liz cheney decided to go to new hampshire. to attack republicans in washington. >> i love my party. i love it's history, i love its principles. but i love my country more. we need a republican party that is led by people who remember, that the peaceful transfer of power, is sacred. and it undergoes the very foundations of our republic. >> joining us now adam johnson,
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former deputy chief of staff for senator harry reid. he is the author of kill switch, the rise of the modern senate and the crippling of american democracy. also with us, host of the podcast with friends like, these ana marie cox. anne-marie. friends like who? i thought we were friends. i'm checking my notes here, there is no invitation for me to be on the podcast, okay, anne-marie. >> they're usually problematic friends. and you're not a problematic friend. >> okay, i accept. that new hampshire had quite a day, in the flow of democrat and republican politics. liz cheney going to new hampshire to complain about washington republicans. and chris in new news saying i don't want to be a washington republican. >> the people who want to be washington republicans is getting to be a pretty grubby
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bunch. we have people, there's three people endorsed by trump, running for, one is running for house, and he's actually been accused of domestic violence. we have people talking about violence, it's been a while since the capitol was considered a physically dangerous place to be. oh i'm sorry it was only january six were is considered physically dangerous place to be. some of this may seem like people are just trying to control peoples words, i've heard paul gustier say it's a joke. the thing he tweeted out ahead and animate version of him committing violence against aoc. i don't like calling that a lack of decorum, i like being in play, i like being rude. i'm totally for that. this is not just not being nice, this is talking about violence. this is disregarding the structures of democracy, which do depend on ensuring peoples physical safety. that's the fundamental reason
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we have a state. and if we cannot do that, at the capitol, that seems like a problem. >> adam, here in harry reid's office, he's the leader of the democratic leader of the senate. isn't courting a democratic governor to run for senate, in this is the guy who you firmly believe can win back that see. for your party. and the guy announces that he's not going to run, he doesn't even call the leader first. and give the heads up that i've made my decision i'm sorry mitch, but i'm not going to do. i will stay here in new hampshire. inside the game, that's a pretty big deal. >> that is a really big deal. that's not just deciding against what mcconnell wanted him to do. that's a burned bridge. and that is hard to repair. i think for your viewers to understand, when you say courting, that is really what's happening here. the senate leaders, pursue these candidates who they
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really want to, run candidate selection is a huge part of what wins races, we saw that in virginia where republicans got a very good candidate in glenn youngkin, who was able to pull out a victory there. candidate quality matters a lot. there's a lot of personal contact that goes into that quoting process. they seek them out, they talk to them on the phone, they make personal trips, they arranged for them to talk to people that they think will talk them into running, it's a very hands on process. it's not like mcconnell was quoting him from afar, mcconnell was personally invested in trying to get him to run. and not only did sununu say no, he said no to mcconnell, on national television. and without giving him any kinds of heads up first. that's a major breach of protocol, and kind of a big clap back to mcconnell. >> i was wondering where you're gonna go with that? >> anna, the parties do take
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encouragement from these kinds of decisions. it may be that he does not really want to be involved in the current version of republican senate politics, but it's a very strong candidate used decided not to run. that provides a real jolt for the democrats today. saying okay, it almost feels like a win at this stage of the game. for them. these are the kinds of things that change the moods within the parties in the senate. and what they're capable of. >> it does. i have to say, part of me is concerned about this, who is left to run? if people who are fundamentally did decent are not left to run. because, the republican party, i think we've talked about this before, is not running a party that's worrying about winning ferrell actions. which means they don't really have to worry about candidate selection as they might have to if they were using totally fair elections, and were in favor of
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the voting rights act or something like that. they can run i have to check my words again but, not very good candidates, and still win if you gerrymander, if you read jigger things the right way. that's what's really concerning to me, before we consider this a win, let's consider why are they not concerned about getting quality candidates. if someone isn't concerned, i mean mitch mcconnell is concerned i guess that's a good sign. but i feel like, the people that are running, in the gop right now, the rest of the gop does not want them, the republican party that we always had trouble dealing with, at least you can sit down with. that seems to be atrophy-ing, instead, this new generation, or same generation of trumpers that are coming through, i'm very concerned. >> adam, last night on this
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program jennifer goes or was here. she's concerned about her brother paul goes. our she's been saying publicly that he's a very sick, man last night she said he is getting worse and worse. and there is nothing that anyone in the republican leadership in washington, intends to do about him. >> yeah. this is terrifying. on a touched on this earlier. threatening physical violence, against your colleagues, is a breach of every imaginable protocol in the world. and, it puts people in danger. he might not be thinking of committing the violence himself, but there are people out there who might do that. it's unconscionable acts. it's incumbent upon republican leadership to do something about this. and the sad part of it is, i think we have seen no evidence whatsoever, that minority leader kevin mccarthy has any
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intention of punishing paul gosar. reports today are instead that minority leader mccarthy are looking to punish the republicans who voted to pass the infrastructure bill last week. that's where they're looking to punish. they're looking to punish the republicans across the aisle to vote with democrats, to give president biden a big win. they're not looking to punish the colleague who is threatening violence against other members. and that's terrifying. >> that means kevin carve the wants to punish mitch mcconnell who also put it for that bipartisan infrastructure bill. adam and anna, thank you very much for joining us tonight. we appreciate it. >> thank you for having us. >> coming up, paul goes our sister jennifer told us here last night, that her brother's sick mind is only getting worse. much worse. why does he still have his position of power in the house of representatives? how does he hold on to that power? that's next.
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that someone as deeply flawed as donald trump, in a matter of for sure years or less, could completely remake one of america's great political parties. in his flood image. but he did. and the reason he was able to do it, was because all too many of republican leadership in the congress, did not turn out to care anything about anything they said they cared about. >> that was congressman adam shift on that program last month. sunday republican congressman paul gosar tweeted an animated video of him assassinating congressman alexander cortez, and threatening the life of alexander -- house republican leader kevin mccarthy, to quote, join in condemning this horrific video, and calling on the ethics
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committee and law enforcement to investigate. kevin mccarthy has yet to respond to the tweet, depicting paul gosar killing a member of congress and threatening the life of the president. our next guest, explores why people like arizona republican paul gosar and up in power. in his new book, corruptible. who gets power, and how it changes us. joining us now is brian closs associate professor of global politics at university london. and the author of the new book corruptible and how it changes us thank you very much for joining us tonight. i really appreciate it. i want to get your reaction to who gets power in the republican party in washington. and how they hold on to it. and how there seems to be nothing they can do to lose it, as in the case of paul gosar. >> it's interesting, power holds a certain magnetism to a
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certain kind of person, i use the analogy of high school basketball team. you don't expect that seem to be representative of average heights. taller kids try out for the team. this is true for power. power hungry people, with authoritarian personalities are disproportionately klauss drawn to power, you can either dial that affects up or dial it down depending on how you set up a system, with the republican party has done in the post trump years is they have dialed up that tendency. they have said to people, if you're like this, we want you, we will promote you, so it attracts and promotes people like paul gosar who are extremists, and embrace violence and it doesn't just attract and vote them, it lets them get away with it. that's particularly corrosive, because it sends a signal to the next generation of potential political leaders in this country. which is to say, people who are looking like maybe all run for office in the future, they see what paul gosar does in the people who think that's a good thing will throw their hat in the ring, the people who think
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that's a bad thing will run for office. paul gosar is emblematic of a culture that attracts and promotes, as the book titled suggest, corruptible people. >> let's listen to what his sister jennifer told me last night about him not being held accountable. >> he has not been held accountable in any way shape or form. he's not been censored. he's not been expelled. and he's not had his seat forfeited by any of the leadership. does he need to act on his sociopathic fantasy for representative? i'm concerned for she and other members and i'm this is absolutely unacceptable. i do not understand. >> so why does kevin mccarthy see his hold on power dependent on allowing quick paul gosar to
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do these things? this is where we have to turn the mirror back on americans's society. there are some people in america who find this appealing. i think that's the deeper question, that's the kind of thing i discuss in my research in the book. it's not just paul gosar its people like paul gosar in the republican party. he has a base. we need to acknowledge not just that this person has been able to seek and obtain power, but actually that the backlash from his own base is not there. what does that say about us? i say us in the sense of a subset of the u.s. population, not all of it. but it's important just understand there's dynamics going on u.s., that's rewarding these kinds of behaviors. and so if leaders are not willing to do it, we have to. we have to beat them in elections. to ensure there's a clear benchmark, if you behave like this, you cannot obtain and maintain power in the united states. unfortunately we're sending exactly the opposite signal. which is going to ensure that
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the pipeline of future leaders in the united states, is exactly the kind of people like paul gosar if we're not careful. >> the struggle with congressional districts is it's unlikely that a democrat would be able to be anyone with a republican label in paul gosar districts. >> that's completely right. that's why the elites have a real responsibility here. corrupt cultures, and corrupt systems attract corrupt incorruptible people. that's the bottom line. if you're going to have that dynamic, the only way to counteract, days you can't win at the ballot box as a result of gerrymandering or any other manipulations of democracy that the united states system has. it's incumbent on the leadership of the party to take action. they have utterly failed to do so. the responsibility is still there. i think it's important that we call them out, and we make sure there are actual consequences. two people who sort of promote
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and mainstream, the idea of violence against members of congress. it's going to scare people to. if you're thinking about running for office in 2021, it's generally a scary prospect. local school board members even are being threatened with death threats. if we want to have better political leaders of the future, if we want to eliminate the paul gosar from congressional leadership, in terms of getting them out of power. we need to have a conversation about how we make powers seem palpable and attractive to good decent people. and how we draw a clear line that what paul gosar was beyond the pale and should be punished harshly. >> attractive and safe, power being something that you can wield safely. right now paul gosar makes you wonder just how safe it is to be a democratic member of science. brian klaaas, new book is corruptible. thank you for joining us tonight. tonight's last word is next.
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republican congresswoman liz cheney said this, >> we are also confronting a domestic threat, that we have never faced before. a former president who's attempting to unravel the foundation of our constitutional for public. aided by political leaders, who have made themselves willing hostages to this dangerous and irrational man. >> congresswoman village cheney gets tonight's last word. the 11th hour with brian williams, starts right now. you'll >> well good evening once again day 294 of the biden administration and this evening, a federal judge has struck a significant blow to trump's effort to prevent the january six committee from not seeing
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trump white house records. u.s. judge tanya chuck is denying trump's request to block access to those documents. judge decided an earlier court ruling on subpoenas writing that the president is not king and added, the plaintiff's not president. national archives, as you know, is set to turn over the first batch of trump's records to this house select committee investigating the insurrection, riding at the capitol. they are expected to do that by this friday. they are almost by definition, all things that trump doesn't want the committee to see. trump has filed an appeal tonight to the d.c. circuit court, that didn't take long. this case is likely to end up at the supreme court. today, the house committee issued even more subpoenas to trump allies. this latest round of requests for documents and testimonies comes just a day after they targeted six other trump allies. today subpoenas went up to ten former trump ad