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tv   Morning Joe  MSNBC  November 15, 2021 3:00am-6:00am PST

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years. biden has as we have been reporting all year privately been frustrated of these virtual meeting, he loves the face-to-face interaction. one of this things that could come up is some of the trade tensions between two countries, tell us what you think where things stand there. >> well, with the biden administration have done, they adopted the trump administration deal approach and they're using to hit the chinese, you are not agreeing and abiding by this agreement that you signed that has to do with agriculture purposes to a whole host of issues. what you see the white house do is lying down some of the other tar rirs that the trump administration imposed on europe and what's going to happen in japan and south korea and steel and aluminum.
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the white house is expecting to get something in return. we are waying away from that with china. they'll be asked on the chinese side of what they want. at the end of the day the white house is going to want something in return. there will be some give and take on this call. >> hans nichols, we really appreciate it. thank you all of you for getting up early with us. "morning joe" starts right now. >> all hell is going to break loose tomorrow. it's going to be moving, quick. >> that was steve bannon back on january 5th, the day before trump's supporters attacked the capitol. it's a different hell breaking loose this morning. he's expected to turn himself in after being indicted by a federal grand jury for two counts of contempt of congress. we'll go live into the
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courthouse with that. >> it will be interesting to see what happens with mark meadows. is he going to follow the subpoena. it will be fascinating. president biden puts pen to paper on the largest infrastructure package in a generation. he'll sign the trillion dollars bipartisan bill at a ceremony this afternoon and we'll go live to the white house, talk about that. >> mika, if you look at some of the poll numbers that are out. there is always a question of where joe biden is sitting and what the agenda is looking like. joe biden's number is low. a poll that we'll be showing you this morning. this morning shows his numbers are the low 40s. a bit of good news if you are joe biden and bad news. the bad news is he's not doing well with independents. he's 17 points off with democrats. those are obviously people that come home are 16% democrats are
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not supportive right now. you know those voters usually come home and almost always come home. it's independents where he's sitting at 58% disapproval that he has to work on. but, you look at where he's sitting and where his legislation is. the bipartisan infrastructure bill overwhelmingly popular, 63% of americans support this bill. i want you to look at that as we start to show. 63% of americans support a bill that republicans are getting hate calls from their constituents if they supported a bill that more than six out of americans support. others are saying it's a communist bill. an infrastructure bill to make your roads, your bridges, your airports safer, your drinking water safer, your broad band
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faster, the things that we want our government to do. even if we are small government conservatives, republicans can't get on board with that. the social spending bill which is controversial in washington. almost six out of ten americans support that as well. actually americans do support that legislation. it's joe biden and the white house right now that are struggling with the numbers. they need to bring those democrats out. they need to start looking at the independents. >> then there is steve bannon. a law enforcement officials tell nbc news the former trump's seen senior adviser is expected to appear in court this afternoon. he's charged with two counts of contempt of congress, one is for refusing to appear for deposition before the select
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committee investigating the january 6th capitol riot and the other is for failure to produce documents. nbc news reports this indictment is a first. no one who has asserted executive privilege has been prosecuted for contempt of congress. >> noted for weeks of arguments of executive privilege also is putting it forward. he was not working in the white house, there is no executive privilege. especially if you look at nixon, if there is a believe that you're pursuit of a crime, then there is no executive privilege. >> if convicted, he could face up to a year in behind bars and a fine up to $100,000 a conviction would not force him to testify. and as joe mentioned, former
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chief of staff, mark meadows may face criminal contempt charges of his own after failing to appear before the house select committee investigating the january 6th insurrection at the capitol. let's bring in our host of "way too early," jonathan lemire and betsy woodruff swan. great to have you all on this hour. dave, we'll start with you, what's next for steve bannon and how does that work? with mark meadows, is it for sure that he faces the same fate? good morning mika. well, he's going to show up for court today to turn himself in as steve bannon will probably not do a curve walk. it's a misdemeanor. it's punishable for up to a
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year. if he's convicted, he's serving jail time. this is low-hanging fruit, this is an easy one for doj, he refused to offer testimonies, he didn't show up at all. i mean that's why it took 38 years to have another case like this. his behavior was especially egregious and for mark meadows, not only they have bad judgment to follow the steve bannon model but bad timing. this is like the kind of guy that cancels his homeowner insurance a day before the hurricane forms in the atlantic. as joe says you don't get to have executive privilege to cover up the conspiracy especially one to overthrow the
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government. this was low-hanging fruit for a lot of people, the only question that came to bannon was what took doj so long. >> so betsy woodruff swan. your reporting is on steve bannon and if you look at what we bumped in with. there is hours and hours of video tape of him doing podcast and rallying the people to show up on january 6th, the day unlike any other to stop the process. there are millions and millions of quotes from this man asking people to show up and get ugly. >> yeah, it's no question. many of the comments that bannon made on that podcast on january 5th. sounds very troubling and
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retrospect. he's trying even trump lost the election and everybody knew he was about to stop being president, trying to make this day of january 6th as threatening as high pressure as over the top as possible as part of this farfetched scheme to try to somehow pressure republicans who supported doing the right thing when it came to certifying the election. so that's part of the reasons the committee is so interested in bannon. he was a key part of this world outside adviser who's trying to as much as possible. that puts him in a unique position, he knows a lot. what's likely at this point is
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he won't testify, the point that david made. he committed his crime and been indicted. even if he did turn around and testify, the crime is committed. it would not get him off the hook. i don't see him talking the committee any time soon ever. >> betsy, talk about the new prosecutors who gotten into office. >> matt graves is the new u.s. attorney of the district of d.c. he was sworn in one week before this abandon indictment came down. it's no surprise that they waited until he could be con if you remembered before bringing in that indictment. depraves has an interesting background, prior to going into private practice. so over the course of his time
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before taking this job, he was familiar with the relationship between congress and capitol hill and with the type of constitutional and legal issues that come into play when congress accesses someone had broken the law. the justice department had to make a tough decision to figure out can they persuade a jury that he would need to be convicted. >> graves had a front row seat although he did not participate in roger clemons. graves also had not sied away from doing some controversial work. his financial disclosure form showed he worked for some interesting clients. he also worked for ben carson,
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trump's secretary, carson's spokesperson confirmed that graves represented him. >> betsy and dave, thank you both. we'll be watching this. and, moving onto now president biden will sign the bipartisan infrastructure bill today. 19 republican senators and 13 republican members in the house backed the plan. most of them plan to see a clear two-day events. the wall street journal reports new york police arrested a man last week and charged him with aggravated harassment in the second degree for allegedly making a death threat against congressman. only a few will be attending the
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signing including lisa murkowski of atlanta and susan collins of maine. the latest washington post shows 41% of approing the president's job performance. the majority of americans support the entirety of the president's infrastructure agenda. as 63% says they back the bipartisan bill while 58% supports the social spending bill. >> jonathan lemire, what a massive gap but i am sure the white house is recognizing it this weekend thatover 20% gap in approval ratings for biden verses the bill that joe biden has been sponsoring and pushing and moving forward over the past several months. i am sure there is hope inside the white house that once these bills passed, people start
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absorbing it. >> this is the conundrum that vexed the white house for some time. the pieces of the component is very popular. yet the white house is having trouble selling it and communicating to americans, hey, here is what is we are trying to do. here is it is tangible benefits that could happen. we reported over the summer about how the white house is really getting heat of democratic allies of not being on the road more. the president needs to be out there telling americans, hey, this is good you want this. support it. that's changing. the president is going to be at least twice this week. and there is hope among white house advisors that i have talked to in recent days who say we'll do a better job selling this. we want to move the conversations away from negotiations on capitol hill and sausage making top line number.
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there is still a long way to go on the reconciliation bill but on the bipartisan part, they want to get out to tell americans this is what's in there and give democrats something to run on next year. this is largely still not conclusively, they think this could help them going into the midterms and help the president's polls number. >> almost two out of three americans support this bipartisan infrastructure bill and republicans who supported this overwhelmingly popular bill are getting death threats are being called communists by other members of their own party are being urged to be pushed out of the party and the hatred and the -- it's really telling and
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tells you actually jonathan exactly where so many of the republicans party are. certainly the house especially and you have this hatred and over-heated rhetoric and you don't have leadership calling anybody out even when people are supporting the bill that enjoys overwhelming support of the american people. >> it shows the extreme polarization right now and the refusal to do things in many cases that your own constituents want, republicans turning against refusing to vote for a bill that people in their district would benefit from. those did have the quote, "courage" to support something well popular are getting death threats and heat from their colleagues and from former president trump.
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it's all just team red or team blue and little in the way of trying to govern so that's depressing big picture look of where things are. in terms of the grandular this is a line in the sand republicans have drawn. they looking to win back the majority next year. democrats could backfire that they think as soon as voters see how they'll benefit from these bills, that could help them perhaps keep at least one house of congress, more likely the senate than the house. republicans don't want to cooperate. they're going to attack democrats and they're going to attack members of their own party if needed. they don't want to play ball and they threatened retaliation against any republicans support this and those supporting the january 6th committee. all right, we got a lot to get to this morning. before we go to break, this
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item, michael flynn is calling for a single religion in america. speaking to a crowd in texas on saturday, flynn said this. >> you are talking about united states of america, you are talking about united states of america because when matthew mentioned it in the bible, he was not talking about the physical ground he was on. he was talking about something in the distance. we are going to have one nation under god which we must. we have to have one religion, one nation under god and one religion under god. >> you know it's really hard to figure out exactly where to start there. former national security adviser, you have the question who in the world would be stupid enough to name him national security adviser especially when he was warned repeatedly against
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doing so. but, the very birth of this nation was based on religious tolerance. people fled england and europe because they wanted religious freedom. they wanted to worship their god as they saw fit without governmental interference. what's so disturbing. it's not this general who's now full on crack pot mode, it's not that he's saying this from a stage, it's unfortunately that more people are thinking this way. it's just again, it does such violence to this country's heritage, it does such violence to the first amendment. there is a reason why it was a first amendment. freedom of religion.
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there is a reason why that was again why people fled. religious persecution that came to this country. this really for me at least is not about the speaker. >> right. >> it's about the fact that you or someone you love actually thinks this way, you will be much better off if you just try to immigrant to iran where they have one religion theocracy. we are different here in america, we still believe in religious reasons. closing arguments begin in the trial of kyle rittenhouse. the jury will have to decide was he forced to act or did he
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instigate the bloodshed. president biden will meet today with xi jinping, richard haas and ted liu will join us. this is an important segment and note the new episode of joe's podcast is out now. joe talks to donny deutsch whether he regrets cashing out as a young age and how the democrats avoid the landslide loss next year expanding the majority. it's really an amazing conversation with donny, it's available on spotify, apple music or where ever you get your podcast. you are watching "morning joe," we'll be right back. u are watch we'll be right back.
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but when big bird tell children to get vaccinated against a deadly disease, i said "enough" and i created my own "sesame street." i read online that you can take a bath in dorax and that'll cleanse you of any nano technologies. >> are you sure? it sounds kind of dumb. >> you are awful. >> dorax is cool. >> the vaccine gave me is called that.
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>> yes, that's correct. "snl" slamming ted cruz for picking a fight with big bird on "sesame street." cruz suggested in a tweet that the only path for liz cheney is to join the democratic party. cheney was quickly to respond. my party, the republican party saved the union. you swore an oath to the constitution, act like it. >> liz cheney, it's neck and neck. but she's of course talking about ted cruz who suggested in texas at a speech that texas
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might see from the union if senate procedural rules changed of if they consider making d.c. a stay. things that have been talked about. president biden will tackle a u.s./china relation virtually. biden and president xi jinping will be speaking. the u.s. has been critical of the chinese government treatment of muslims at northwest china. its handling of protests in hong kong and failing to cooperate with covid expectations. joining us now richard haas and staff writer at the atlantic.
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>> richard, let's talk about the issue. they are internal issues that we express concerns about a good bit. whether you are talking about taiwan or whether you are talking about north korea. it seems we have less of a chance have impacted on those. then you have of course the global challenges whether it's climate change. tell me if you are talking to biden, what are you telling him to go into this meeting trying to do? what positives take away can he get from it? >> probably the most positive take away is to institutionalized cabinet
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meetings. you talk about dialing it down in public and having it be more private. i would put down some marker but we are not going to influence there. they'll ignore us. i would focus as much as anything on taiwan and i would essentially privately let the chinese know, yes, we do not support taiwan's independence. if china uses force, we'll try to coarse taiwan that we'll back it up. >> with the american people support military force against china if they go into taiwan? >> well, part of what we need to do is begin to talk about it more. it's too much of a conversation here and foreign affairs magazines and a few other places. it's something the
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administration needs to talk to publicly or need to talk about congress. it will be bipartisan support for rather robust u.s. line. so we have not prepared for americans. we have not explained the stakes. the australians defense minister says austria would be with us. if we stood up to china over taiwan. japan is moving clearly in that direction. if we were not to do it, it would be the end of the post world war ii alliance system in asia. china can be deterred and no mean hopeless, we have to do things in the region with military force, we got to get europeans on board and they got to tell the chinese if you act. president biden is spoken to the american people several times of afghanistan, he's not spoken to the american people about this.
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i would say he needs to. >> a couple of years ago. richard's magazine foreign affairs had autocrats on the cover and talked about this is the growing fringe of the future. democracy was going to bloom from a million places. that has not happened so you are to follow-up on the article. it was fascinating. you talk about how we have this sort of comical dr. evil version of what we think autocrats are like. can you explain the apparatus that surrounds the so-called strong man and what it requires in 2021 to be an effective autocrat? >> it's important to understand this is not just about china.
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whether we are talking about erdogan our turkey or maduro or venezuela. all of them stay in power because we have a network of autocracies. and yet they share with one another trade links. their state companies invest in one another and they make money in one another country. they share tactics and techniques of this information. sometimes they share surveillance technology and they work together to support one another. i spent the last couple of days at the border of belaruse and poland where they are conducting a strange operation bringing migrants to that border and
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forcing them cross. why is belaruse able to do that? the answer is they have support from russia and they have support from iran and cuba and the u.n. and international in stupgss, they feel like they have impunity. that's true of many states around the world. >> anne, you talked about putin having a hand in so much of this putin hates lukeshenko but what have they learned? they learned freedom is contagious. so you say despite the fact that he hates lukenshenko and just like he reached out and helped assad several years ago. >> that's exactly right.
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it's not a mutual friendship. as i say even some kind of ideological compact. they're interested money as well as staying in power. when they see the institutions of the democratic world of what we call the western alliance, they block those. what they see is counter democracy movement where ever they appear whether it's in venezuela or belaruse. >> i feel we need to take more time with belaruse with so much happening here in the u.s.
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we miss this unbelievable story. she's incredible, she took over for her husband. can you tell us her story and how it actually really weaves right into this narrative that you are trying to explain to us this morning. >> my article starts with her because as you say she's such an iconic perfect example of the kind of person who accidentally brought into politics by the experience of injustice. she was a housewife, she had two small children, one of them has been ill. she was at home most of the time and was not involved in politics. her husband came and involved in protests and the kind of opposition journalism, he made videos of different kinds of experiences and he became popular and he says he'll run for president.
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he was arrested and she ran in his place. she was allowed to run in his place because what can some housewives do? nobody believed she would have any chance. because the way she speaks, as i just described, i am a housewife, i ran into the unfairness of the state. join me and vote for me. she almost certainly won the election last summer. but of course she was not allowed to take power. her husband is in jail and there is a group of energetic young people around her who still believers a democracy in belaruse. they're not against this dictator, they're up against china and dictators and they're
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up against hypocrisy. whether backing in the united states and europe can help her overthrow the regime. are we really thinking, do we really have the right tools now? have we modernize our way which we support the most democratic movement like her. that's an important theme the next month as biden holds a democracy summit in washington the next week. >> richard, we are talking about autocracy autocracy, we are seeing real hope, a bridge between the middle east and europe. now, under erdogan, we look at hungary despite the fact that some so-called conservatives in america seemed to worship at the
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feet of an ill-liberal person in hungary, they become more ill-liberal by the day. there is poland over the past five or six or seven years have also been fighting some ill liberal forces there. give us your take on let's just talk about those countries. countries that have been allies in the past, what's your take on where they are right now and where they believe they're going? >> all three of them. the term is backsliding and what we have seen is the weakening of civil society. the corruption if you will of state media, social media has played to it and you can add us. a few minutes ago, you played the piece of michael flynn spouting that nonsense, what we are seeing is a real struggle
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2.5 century after this country was found and constitution approved of americans. i think it's not just our allies in europe but it's us. i think we are struggling not just -- kind of autocratic international. people don't learn their history or they're learning of the corrupt form of history. all of these democracies of the modern age are on the defensive. >> switching gears, the eyes have been on scotland of this major summit. there was this india and china. give us a sense of what's happening there and your assessment was what progress was made and was it enough? >> we went from fazing down to
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the use of coal. it was very long on rhetoric and pledges and on urgings and very short on anything tangible and anything specific and no enforcement mechanism. i think the glass is more than half empty. they'll come back in a year and governments are going to be asked to come up with more ambitious target and of the trajectory and the money they're going to make available for those paying a price of climate change. this entire system is all voluntary and it's all based on consensus. if the indians don't agree on something, the world does not agree on something. things are still getting worse. that's a real lesson of glasgow. >> anne, can you help me better understand what's going on in hungary right now. you and i both have former
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fellow travelers on the center right as strong communist who formative years at least in my household and into college and law school were formed by being code war year of the horse who are now going to hungary and getting paid by the government to invite conservatives and they come back and talked about how it's a conservative wonderland. you can't even talked to them. what i have read about hungary is deeply disturbing. you got a guy that's driven out free press there. a guy that tracks and bugs the phones of political opponents and reporters. please, continue on that list and i love your reaction and know about people that used to run the national review are now
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sitting back and getting paid by this thug. >> i am afraid that it's indeed true. one of the things that it sew shows of the appeal of autocrcy and total control. people who wrote our constitution knew it was a challenge that the appeal and excitement of demagogue -- as you say eliminated the press in his country and marginalize the opposition, he has not ended
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democracy all together and there some chance that the unified opposition could win another election there. i am not sure if he'll allow it to happen. but, the excitement of being around someone does goes to people's head. you can see where you played the clip of general flynn, we heard from the man that flynn used to work for, donald trump. the idea that you can sweep away all these checks and balances and idea of tolerance. there is a part of the, you know, the part of the population that finds the dealing and what we need to do is make sure our institutions are strong enough to resist it. >> the pieces of the new issue of "the atlantic" is worth picking up and reading it. anne applebaum.
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thank you so much for writing it. >> richard haass, do you have anything to report on, any nfl you would like to be? >> wow, so invalidating. it's not nice. >> the good thing is that the giants did not lose. i take it as a positive development in the nfl this week. >> why can't the giants and top market in america, why does the top market in america have a good football team? >> i ask the same questions of the jets and in basketball, you can ask with the knicks. i am not going next to baseball with you know who's sitting next to me. >> okay, break it up. coming up, newly released e-mails revealed how the trump white house reportedly interfered in the cdc's efforts to warn americans about coronavirus. plus, chris christie details a
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conversation he had with donald trump last year when the then president seemed more concerned about optics than the former governor's covid diagnoses. "morning joe" is coming right back. "morning joe" is coming right back ♪ it wasn't me by shaggy ♪ you're never responsible for unauthorized purchases on your discover card. (burke) i've seen this movie before. (woman) you have? (burke) sure, this is the part where all is lost and the hero searches for hope.
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ahead of a possible verdict in the heated kyle rittenhouse's trial. jury are expected to deliver a deliberation today. rittenhouse's mother recently sat down with gabe gutierrez.
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>> reporter: we sat down with wendy rittenhouse. >> when you saw your son, what went through your head? >> fear. overwhelmed. my stomach was in knots. kyle did a good job when he broke down. i broke down. >> reporter: knowing what he knows now, knowing that chaotic situation, do you think he would have gone down? >> probably not. >> reporter: the 18-year-old faces six charges related to the 19 shots. killing two people. the most serious charge is intentional homicide. if convicted, he could face life in prison. >> the fact that the prosecution in this case is asking for
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lesser included offenses may signal they are not feeling that confident of their first degree or top homicide charges. the governor authorized about 500 national guard troops should local authorities ask for their help. the case attracted intense scrutiny seeing rittenhouse as a patriot or a vigilante looking for trouble. rittenhouse's mother is saying her son is being treated for ptsd. >> a lot of people should have have -- a lot of people should have been there. he brought that gun for protection. until this day, if he didn't that gun, my son wuld have been dead. with you anticipating and
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looking forward to the verdict, how are you describing your feelings going into this? >> i am scared. >> it's hard not to feel for a mother there and being scared for her son. it's strange that when asked whether he would have gone there again, she said probably not. and also saying if he didn't have his gone, he probably would have been killed that night. it begs the question why in the world would somebody be driven across state lines illegally be carrying an ar-15 and actually going to a scene where it was unstable. i got to say this is strange. i looked at some messages this weekend and it's rittenhouse. you have a lot of extreme people
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that have decided they're going to embrace somebody that violated gun laws that acted in a way with a gun that certainly none of my friends and as mika's family has been her entire life of law-abiding gun owners. they don't like to see people breaking the laws and running around in open streets with ar-15s. i will tell you who else does not like that. police officers, our military. that's a chaotic situation with somebody whose untrained with a weapon, going into the middle of civilians and looking for trouble. it's trouble that he found. so it's sort of like a george zimmerman case where he became a hero of extremists.
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and we found out that if the night that he shot was not enough. we have seen videos of this guy beating up girls. can you imagine that, beating up girls and going around with a t-shirt that trolls the fact that he's out of prison? well, again, not to be pesky with details. he killed two people. i don't know what ptsd likes like where you are joking about being free is you know what. again, i am concerned for the people who are trying turn this kid into a hero. ask police officers whether he's
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a hero or ask people whether supported gun rights whether they want guns running around the streets. i think it was on thursday or friday, i saw on twitter. i said that he fired 60 rounds. obviously anybody follows this knows it's not the case. he fires most of his rounds according to "the washington post." i asked the question to declare and that was the question i tried to ask. it's always early in the morning and i obviously misspoke. jonathan lemire though, it's strange how people define conservatives in the most bizarre way and they go out of their way and picked people who act and break the law and act terribly as their heroes. it looks like again kyle rittenhouse is one of those
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cases where people on both sides are praising this guy when everybody should be lining up shoulders to shoulders saying it's a really bad thing to have kids getting ar-15s because they think it's cool going across state line and shooting people. it's not what is our officers want. it's about identity and they're grabbing a hold of someone and making them a poster child of some larger things when this person is a kid who at the very least transported guns at state line. help be acquitted of higher charges as they expect something
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of the weapon charge ar-15s. two people lost their lives here. they were stoked by president trump and it became another example of team red and team blue, another example of political divisions like the pandemic and masks and vaccines and the list is depressingly wrong. >> we are sitting here talking about gun safety and making sure it's not loading and taking care. this kid is no hero for second amendment advocate. this kid is a warning to parents and others to make sure before somebody picks up a gun, they understand gun safety, they
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don't go into places where they're going to be in the cops' way and make law enforcement's jobs more difficult. we'll go live to the d.c. courthouse where steve bannon is expected to appear this afternoon to answer charges of contempt of congress. does the same fate await mark meadows? the federal government can't mandate private companies to get their employees vaccinated but state governments can mandate private companies not to. that's the logic texas is trying to use. we'll show you how chris wallace exposed the hypocrisy to the state's attorney general. why vaccinating kids against covid-19 makes sense. "morning joe" is back in 90 seconds. joe" is back in 90 seconds.
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they're prohibited from deciding if they so choose to issue a vaccine mandate. that's not consistent. >> yeah, so we are dealing with different types of requirements here. it's clear that the governor has a different executive order for them and we have been in all types of litigations with school
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districts and counties trying to stop them from forcing mandates and we have been successful. we vaccinated no lawsuits against businesses. there is a lot more freedom of businesses making their own decisions. they should consider their employees. we are in a situation right now with our economy where we can't afford to lose transportation employees and healthcare workers or law enforcement officers and that's happening all over the country. i think it's going to have a negative impact on our economy and the ability to help people. i just want to do one more time, you are saying they should have the authority to decide what their workers should do, the governor prohibits them from deciding what they want to do. he bans vaccine mandates. it's a mandate by the federal government. you are saying the difference between a mandate to get a vaccine from the federal government is different in terms of the ability to take care of their own from a state's mandate not to have vaccine mandates?
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>> well, i think your question is a little confusing. the federal government has no authority to do this. we have osha guidelines that's not authorized by congress. they have no authority. the governor has different authority and he's operating under that state law. >> he can tell private businesses what to do and it's okay and they can't take care on their own? >> look, i definitely agree that states have more authority than the federal government. if congress has not granted that authority to osha and i would even question whether congress has authority. states has a lot of authorities to deal with what's going on with their states. that's clear from the founding of our country. >> well, fox news sunday host, chris wallace repeatedly pointing out the hypocrisy by texas officials when it combs to the state's stance on mandates.
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he did a good job pointing et out but wow. it was hard to watch that. >> i would expect this from some democrat that had run as a big government democrat in saying i am going to control as many aspects of your life as possible if that's what they promise on the campaign trail. you look at texas and florida and those two states, you had governors that have reached out from the state capitol, from their governor's mansion -- you can't do this. you can't do that. basically telling that that they have no right to run their business the way they need to run their business in a pan
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pandemic. protect profits. there is nothing conservative about it. it's big government interventions from inside governor's mansion. these two governors pretend to be conservative revealed themselves as big government believers and they can step on small businesses and tell small businesses they don't have the right or the freedom to do what they need to do to succeed. >> jonathan lemire is still with us. we have peter baker and national political reporter for axios, jonathan swan. >> peter baker, we had some
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numbers coming out of the weekend. it's fascinating. the white house is pushing some extremely popular programs. we saw the bipartisan infrastructure bill got the support of three out of three americans, almost 60% of americans sport the build back better bill which i admit is much higher than what i expected. joe biden's number is down in the low 40s. what's the white house's take on these numbers and do they believe passing both pieces of popular legislation will actually lift his number especially with independents? >> it's interesting, you see voters like biden's program. they just don't like how biden is handling it now. they're reassured that these programs are the fact in the
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right direction. the problem for the white house as they see it are things like inflation, economic concerns , sort of lingering covid happening. we still have 1100 people dying everyday, 80,000 cases. they view that as a drag on the president's handling of things. if they can get this bill back and give some credit as the president plans to sign it at the white house, those numbers may begin to tick backup. >> you know jonathan swan, if you need any evidence of how for republicans are for the mainstream of america. here you have a bill of 63%
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supportive of the american people and yet republican members who supported it are getting death threats from the base, are getting threatened from members of their own republican caucus in the house and have leadership offering their own versions of those threats as well. >> it's really disturbing. i have spoken to republicans who have these threats. they don't reveal three quarters of what they get because they don't want to create more of an atmosphere. what you are seeing and hearing in the reporting is a tiny proportion of what some of these lawmakers are dealing with. some of them feed for their lives and i spoke to members, i remember talking republicans following the january 6th, it was chilling to hear what they
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were experiencing in their real lives and the types of threats. if anything, what you are breathing and seeing is just such a tiny proportion of what's actually going on for members -- they voted for an infrastructure bill that passed the senate with a bipartisan vote. you would think they're voting to overthrow the republic or something but it's a stead cluster highway bill basically. >> it's pretty out there. steve bannon is expected to surrender today and appear in court this afternoon. a federal grand jury charging him of two counts of contempt of congress. one for failure to appear and
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the other is failure to produce documents. nbc news reports this indictment is a first. no one who has asserted executive privilege have ever been prosecute for contempt of congress. if convicted, he could face up to a year behind bars and a fine up to $100,000 but a conviction would not force him to testify. former chief of staff under president trump mark meadows may face criminal contempt charges of his own. after failing to appear before the house select committee, meadows refused to meet congressional investigators for a deposition on friday. let's bring in katie benner for the new york time, tell us what we can expect to see today in terms of steve bannon and what happens this amp and how much time does he have? >> sure, we can expect to see
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bannon self-surrender today. not much is going to happen today in court. his side and lawyer will tell the story in an argument. he feels he's covered by executive privilege and arguing a lot of legal scholars does not hold weight because he did not work in the government. now one thing that's tricky for meadows in that argument is much of what the committee wants to ask him about involving meetings that meadows was in that other officials have already discussed including officials from the justice department. it will be difficult for him to say if he has executive privilege over those
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conversations. >> katie, good morning, it's jonathan lemire here. we know this does not mean that bannon will ever testify even if it's sort of to go forward. you mentioned the stakes for mark meadows. where else could this lead? the two of them are the bull face names if you will. they talk to a lot of trump officials. >> you know the committee have already said they'll go down this route if necessary. they included jeffery clark who seems to be working with the president to stop the election and stop the transfer of power to president biden. we have to remember though in sending out this broad lift of subpoenas, the committee is taking some what of a risk because we are on two fronts.
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to reiterate things that we know have been disproven by law enforcement officials and they want to create a strong counter narrative with the report. by referring for people like bannon for prosecution, they're creating political theater that people like bannon can use to a larger platform to defend the former president. >> all right, katie benbennett. thank you so much. we appreciate it. in the fight against covid, austria is on lockdown. the strict mandate is in effect to help curve the surge in cases there. experts warned that the u.s. could see similar wave of
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infections. kathy park has the latest. >> reporter: millions of unvaccinated australians are on lockdown in order for the government as a country tries to slow the spread of the coronavirus. >> it will be very consistently controlled. anyone 12 and older who has not been vaccinated are being told to stay home. only allowed leave for food, work and exercise. violators could face a fine up to 1,450 euros, as roughly more than 1600 u.s. dollars. >> if everybody gets vavaccinat, i also do. 65% of austria's population is fully vaccinated. the entire region is back at the epicenter of the pandemic. record daily infections, more than 50,000. with cases reaching peak pandemic levels in the netherlands. officials launched a partial
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lockdown on saturday. sparking tense clashes among protesters and police. >> what would you say is contribuing to the surge in europe. >> a lot of migrants and many of them are not vaccinated. >> i think europe is a bell weather of what's to come, super spreading events always happen after thanksgiving and christmas holidays. take as many medications as you can and please get your third shot. >> reporter: everyone can enjoy the holiday even as the virus is not taking a break. >> with brown university, school of public health, dr. ajay. it's always great to talk to you. we have learned something. we learned that the vaccine works and i was hopeful it would
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create smart cells that would stay with you for two or three or four years. that's not the case. we had moderna 92% effective about six months in. the effect starts to wear you have and so you need the second shot and booster. how important is it for people to get the booster shot so they can go through the holiday season and not have to worry as much about getting covid. >> yeah. good morning joe. thank you for having me here. >> we saw what happened last year with big spikes and now we can protect ourselves. i think it's essential that all adults get a booster out. it will prevent infection. what we care about is preventing
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infections and for chronically ill people, you got to get a booster shot. really all adults should be getting it. >> we saw obviously infection rates and deaths really dropped this summer and the delta variant came along, it spiked. it's interesting dr. got -- can you talk a little bit more about that. >> absolutely. what we have seen with the delta variant and we saw it in india with it started. it caused this massive wave and lasted two months and it
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recedes. it killed about 150,000 americans. it was awful. there are parts of america that remains still vulnerable, midwest, and upper midwest and great plain states because they don't have high levels of vaccinations. the northeast got more people vaccinated and that is going to be a really important wall against the horrible winter. the important part of the country will get through the next few months is fine but i do remain worried about the southwest and midwest where vaccination rates are not as high as they need to be. >> in those same areas, what's your prognosis for kids getting vaccinated? >> i have a nine-year-old that's getting vaccinated. he's getting his first shot with his pediatrician.
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all kids should be vaccinated over the age of five, first of all because it will protect them and adds to the population level immunity. it helps us putting this pandemic behind us. i am struck by we have been into this for so long. how many people are not yet ready to do things that's needed to put the pandemic behind us and move on. the best way we can do that is get a lot of people vaccinated. >> doctor, thank you very much for being on this morning. >> peter baker, how is the white house responding to the d.c. circuit holding up the mandate. are they hope to have better luck? >> they are. >> they still think they have a good legal case. they think the osha requirement are legal and all kinds of safety conditions for businesses so why not this.
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that does not mean it's the only benefits. part of what they are looking at is it is idea they are creating expectations among businesses. >> you can get out of the weekly testing if you do a vaccine. prior to vaccines, you ever options between the two. there is been a benefit from it even if it does not go into effect. they want to fight it out and they think they have a good case. we'll find out soon. all right, six current and
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former health officials say the trump administration repeatedly interfered with the cdc's messaging on the coronavirus last year for political reasons. according to interviewed transcript released by a house subcommittee, angry trump blocked the cdc from holding public briefings for more than three months after a top expert warned of a virus spreading in february of 2020. the transcript also confirmed that another official quote was instructed to delete in august 8th, 2020 e-mail which the cdc stop the publication of scientific reports that were damage to president trump and he understood the instruction came from trump from robert redfield.
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debra birx accused scott atlas of coronavirus tests. atlas has denied these claims. >> this is so -- >> this is so twisted. twisted is a good way to put it. people often ask what happens if somebody like debra birx will sometimes be quiet when president trump says crazy things. what would happen if she steps down or kicked out? the answer to that question is scott atlas. that was a difficult choice she had to make. yes, you can say she's terrible and should have stood up to
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donald trump more. you know it's not in that case when you are dealing with the pandemic. it's easy when you are in that position and millions of lives are at stake when you are tweeting something out. jonathan swan, some trump defenders say it was trump's cdc had the right to instruct them what to do. we are talking about stopping the cdc and stopping others in the middle of the pandemic for warning americans that their lives may be endangered. here we are hundreds and hundreds of thousands of deaths later that the warning they want to get out february 2020 were actually under stated. >> i remember during this period
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how obsessed president trump was with the testing. he kept saying it and he was saying it privately and he was saying it publicly but to his aides. why are we doing so many tests? it was making us look bad. there were this period of one of these cruise ships sitting offshore and he was talking about keeping it offshore because he does not want the case numbers to come up. it's playing out in public and covering some of these details, donald trump was publicly undermining the cdc and fauci. we are getting more texture from behind the scenes, but it was no secret. scott atlas condemned by donald
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trump. donald trump liked what he was hearing and he reenforced trump's own paranoia that the nih and the cdc were out to cause him reelection and undermine hydroxychloroquine and other things. this was the situation of the first year of the pandemic. >> it bears repeats how many lies the american people were toll about the pandemic from the beginning by the president and others around him. it was under stated from the very beginning in a way that caused people their lives. >> jonathan, before we let you go. i saw your interview -- >> swan. >> jonathan swan. >> i saw your interview with secretary of general of nato, let's say a pause when you asked if turkey was still a democracy. tell us about that interview and
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what you learned from nato secretary general. >> yeah, it was fascinating. one of the biggest problems as you know, joe, within nato is turkey. nato is often -- the message that's given to nato is that you guys need to clean up your democracy and clean up corruption and yada-ya. that's infuriating if you are a leader in ukraine and when you look at turkey and the committee to protect journalists ranked turkey number one in the world for jailing journalists. you have a country inside nato that's buying weapons from the russians where the leaders interfere in the judiciary does all the things that
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authoritarians do. tell me how you define democracy, do you still consider the turkish government as a democracy and he pauses and says well, they have elections. it's funny but it's not funny. it's very dark actually >> jonathan swan. you are not number one, you are the second swan we had on this morning. >> peter baker, thank you. >> yes, i noticed. >> thank you both for your reporting. still ahead on "morning joe", we'll speak to karine jean-pierre. a record number of americans quit their jobs during september, what it says about
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our economic economy. plus, concerns about the queen's health after the 95 years old skipped another public engagement. you are watching "morning joe," we'll be right back. e watching we'll be right back. feel stuck with student loan debt? move to sofi and feel what it's like to get your money right. (phone chimes) ♪ ♪ ♪ i jump up on the stage ♪ ♪ and do my money dance ♪ ♪ i throw some money up ♪ ♪ and watch the money land ♪ ♪ i do my, i do my i do my money dance ♪ move your student loan debt to sofi - you could save with low rates and no fees. earn a $500 bonus when you refi... and get your money right. ♪ i do my money dance ♪ a mountain of toys to fulfill many wishes must be carried across all roads and all bridges. it's not magic that makes more holiday deliveries to homes in the us than anyone else, it's the hardworking people
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wow, 32 past the hour. look at that. amazing look at new york city. happy monday everybody. a record 4.4 million people quit their jobs in september, some took advantage of a surge in jobs opening across the country while rising covid cases and child care issues and better wages impacted other decisions. the industry that saw the biggest increase of people
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leaving including entertainment and recreation and health services. malls around the country are reporting a shortage of santas. nbc news reports. >> reporter: it's a holiday, the annual visit top saint nick. this year santa claus may not come into town. >> we have seen santa every year. that makes me sad. >> reporter: the u.s. shortage of labor now runs as short as santa jobs. >> we never seen a santa shortage like this. >> reporter: he says requests are up more than 120% compares to prepandemic levels.
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last year they're unable to get with their family and they want to include santa. >> reporter: several organizations reporting a 15% drop in staffing. why so few santas? many retired during the pandemic and others are at higher risk of covid. several hundreds have died from the virus. >> reporter: los angeles santa says he's being extra cautious. >> it's a safety issue. everybody needs to follow through. santa is no different. >> reporter: the majority won't be able to share their wish list on his knees. a shift from tradition but santa says also an opportunity to practice patience. >> if you want to see santa, he's always in your heart. >> okay, our thanks to emily for that report or any kids
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watching. santa is coming this week, he may be a little late, three or four or five weeks late with his presents. coming up over the past 60 years, the list price for a vile of insulin have gone up. first, white house's secretary karine jean-pierre is standing by for the big day of the infrastructure bill is signed into law. "morning joe" is coming back. lw "morning joe" is coming back
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jean-pierre bill
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passed. what's going to be in place and americans are going to feel the effects of safer roads and better bridges and faster broad band. >> the president announced coordinator over night last night, mayor landrieu is going to be the coordinator that's going to oversee this big bipartisan infrastructure bill that the president is going to sign into law later today. one of the reasons that he picked mayor landrieu because he wanted to make sure this historic investment had the biggest impact on people's lives. miss landrieu is the perfect person to make it happen. the recovery act you are speaking about in 2009 was a big deal. the president makes sure that he took that on with transparency and it was incredibly
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successful. now this is clearly different. it was a stimulus that was a different time of the economy and so we are going to make sure that we are working with -- remember there is going to be other agencies that's going to be vofred in this as well. we'll get this done for the american people. there are jobs and projects already that are going to get going. there are worthy projects that we'll make sure get invested in and get done. >> good morning, it's jonathan, boy, you guys love your infrastructure joke. >> we heard from senator manchin suggesting threatening that this should be delayed sometimes next year because of concerns of inflation and fears of throwing that much money into the economy. if that happens and that's not
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what senator schumer wanted so far to this point but you guys have. it's senator manchin who vote you can't lose. if this cannot happen for 2022, what's the next outcome for the white house? >> here is what we understand, the president understands that prices increase, inflation does put a strain in families and we understand that. we get that. here is what's important. if you care about inflation and if you care about making sure that when easing inflation in the upcoming months and the future, voting for this build back better bill act is the way to go. both the bipartisan infrastructure bill and the build back better bill act will ease inflation. here is another thing i want to say. the president taken
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unprecedented action because he sees what's going on. this is a high priority prices and has worked closely with labor community and congress to make sure that this administration can do all that it can to really attack this in a way that we lower these prices and make sure that we continue to deliver for the american people and understanding what's at stakes right now for families. >> "the washington post" posted a new piece that president biden under estimated the problems for americans. here are the lead lines from the piece. in june senior officials predicted that rising inflation was transitory.
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in august, white house press secretary jen psaki declares that the president declares that it's not unevidentable that the -- >> and so the president has taken this on from the beginning. he came in this administration dealing with multiple crisis. , the economy and covid. that's two on the list there. what he made sure he did was to get the american rescue plan going and pass that and where we are today, yes, the economy is turning back on. 4.6% when you see the unemployment rate that's gone down. when you see the 5.6 million jobs, 620,000 jobs a month. that's a historic numbers that we are seeing from this president and not only that, if you look at covid a year ago, there was no vaccines.
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now, we are seeing 80% of american public have at least one shot in arms. we have seen some progress. and the president has been making sure all of these things are being a priority to him. now do we have more work to do? absolutely. we are dpoing to continue to do that work and so like i said he's been working with business leaders and labor unions to make sure that we are continuing to really attack what we are seeing with the high prices and that's what we are going to do. if we want to really lower cost for american families, the build back better bill act is something we see. we are seeing progress there. you are talking about eller care and child care and we are talking about universal pre-k for three or four year olds,
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those are things that's going to help families lowering that cost. we'll get the president's economic policies passed and we'll continue to work on the build back better bill act. >> karine jean-pierre, thank you for being on this morning. the high cost of prescription drugs is something democrats hope to tackle, the build back better bill, something republicans trying to combat. the price of insulin remains out of reach. the w.h.o. says out of the 60 million people living with type two diabetes, half of everyone who needs the medicine does not get it. one of the main reasons, access to the life saving medicine of a high price tag. the average price of insulin in
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2018 in the u.s. was $98.70. in canada was $12. is it time that we hold big pharmas accountable? as joe tweeted out of the weekend, as diabetic, i often h many who are crushed by the cost of insulin that has skyrocketed over the past decade for no reason other than greed. joining us now, founder and contributor and editor at large, tom rogers whose new op ed is entitled reconciling with reconciliation over drug pricing. >> tom, thank you for being with us. let's go through the numbers. and canada, it's $12 a unit. in great britain, it is $7 a unit. here it's almost $100 per unit of insulin. those prices have skyrocketed over the past decade. i am blessed enough that i am
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able to afford that for my son who has had type one diabetes. but because people know my son has type one diabetes, i have diabetics coming up to me all the time talking about the terrible choices they are having to make because -- and i'll say it, because they're being gouged by big pharma. they're being gouged by big pharma. there's nothing that has changed over the past decade that would have prices in the u.s. skyrocket and for the life of me, i have no idea why congress and the president don't do something to get our prices in line with canada. tom, i'm sorry to go on, but this is i've been worried about for a decade now. when people can't afford their insulin, bad things happen to them. they lose their -- their legs or they have to go on dialysis because their kidneys stop working. and guess who pays for that.
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the american taxpayer. so we can either make them stop gouging consumers, or the price tag for everybody, especially those diabetic suffering, keeps going up. >> well, you're right, joe. and this is a huge issue. it's one that people feel right up there with gas prices. and it's one that congress looks like there's a compromise now to address. biden took it out of the build back better bill when he put forward a compromise and democrats on the hill came back with a provision that it's back in, but now with manchin's concerns and certain parliamentary concerns, senate parliamentarian concern, the fate is unclear in terms of the prescription drug provisions. >> but i don't understand, though, tom, as far as just on insulin, why can't they just isolate this, again, for people
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who are suffering with diabetes? why can't they just isolate this one issue where everybody knows there's price gouging going on and the long-term effects are devastating? >> well, joe, and i think that's exactly where the focus ought to be, on certain drugs that are priced beyond what people who really need them can afford. and the point of my piece was for the vast majority of drugs and the vast majority of consumers, whether they're elderly or not or have insurance or not or whether build back better passes or not, and whether prescription drug provisions are in that bill or not, we can reconcile with reconciliation in part over the fact that there is a private marketplace solution today that has gotten almost no press about one way that we can really alleviate some of these pressures on people who need cheaper drugs. and the answer to that lies in a
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company and some smaller ones like it, called good r.x., which went public over the pandemic. today has around a $20 billion market cap. so not a small company. which actually provides a way for people to get drugs far cheaper than most are aware of. and it's a very simple solution. it's an app, free on your phone, and you just plug it in, plug in the drug, insulin or others, and it comes up with 10 or 12 places in your local area where the drug is available. now, this provision on capitol hill is all about allowing medicare to negotiate with pharmaceutical companies. well, what good rx shows are the results of massive negotiations that have already taken place in the pharmacy, pharmacy benefit manager, pharmaceutical chain of how drugs are distributed ultimately at retail. and it gives you an incredible
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differential between the pricing in your local area, for instance, a cvs may have a drug that is eight or times higher than the cheapest place to get it in your market. you may go fill your prescription through your insurance or you may not have insurance, and you're not aware of the cheapest place to get it. you look at this and say wow, i can get insulin at one-third the price that it was available where i was renewing it. and people are not aware of the fact that the private marketplace has created an option here. sometimes wagreens is the cheapest place. sometimes it's the pharmacy at your supermarket. i've been using it for our family two years. i've been struck at how much money we can save ivan though --
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even though we have full private insurance. if you're on medicare, you can really take advantage of it, and particularly if you're on multiple drugs, save a lot of money. now, it doesn't have an answer -- >> finish up. >> i was just going to say this is a great consumer tool. it's a partial private marketplace solution for the problem you're talking about. it is not a solution for the elderly or the family where you're dealing with a rare cancer or an auto immune disease where you have these drugs that cost thousands of dollars a month and these are not available for this kind of solution. and we need a prescription drug answer legislatively that's going to deal with that. >> all right. what a radical concept. competition. i've heard it works. maybe congress should do that when it comes to drug pricing. tom rogers, thank you so much. greatly appreciated. come back soon. you can read more of tom's new piece online for news week.
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underline it again quickly. if people can't afford to get insulin up front because big pharma is gouging them, at tend of the day, they're going to be horrific consequences to them and you the consumer, you the taxpayer, will be paying more for medicaid or medicare, for the complications that could be easily taken care of if we just had congress and the white house stop this price gouging. >> and still ahead, former trump senior adviser steve bannon expected to surrender today and appear in court this afternoon after being charged with two counts of contempt of congress. ken dilanian joins us live from the courthouse in d.c. plus jonathan karl with his bomb shell book on the final act of the trump show along with new audio from his interview with the former president.
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the longer you've been with us... the more rewards you can get. join for free on the xfinity app. our thanks. your rewards. it is the top of the hour. a live look at washington d.c. happy monday. welcome back to "morning joe." it's monday, november 15th. and jonathan lamire is still with us, hanging in there. up way too early and with us at 8 a.m. on the east coast. a law enforcement official tells nbc news former trump senior adviser steve bannon is expected to surrender today and appear in court this afternoon. a federal grand jury indicted bannon on friday. charging him with two counts of contempt of congress. one, is for refusing to appear for deposition before the select committee investigating the january 6th capitol riot. the other is for failure to produce documents.
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joining us now outside the courthouse where bannon is expected to surrender and appear this afternoon, nbc news correspondent covering national security and intelligence, ken dilanian. ken, thanks for joining us. what can we expect today? >> good morning, mika. well, first, we expect steve bannon to self-surrender at the fbi's washington field office a few blocks from here sometime this morning. and then we believe we will see him although he's not required to appear, but we think we're going to see him at an arrangement early this afternoon in the courthouse behind me. an arrangement where the charges will be read and he'll have a chance to enter a plea. these are misdemeanor charges. the issue of his detention is not in play. but these are two charges that each carry a penalty of up to a year in jail, and up to $100,000 fine. contempt of congress. it's a case that the justice department has rarely brought in history, and in fact, has passed
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on chances to bring these cases and contempt cases in both the trump administration and obama administration. but here the attorney general clearly thought that steve bannon was flouting the law in a way that transcended politics. he said as much in a statement that this indictment on friday upholds the rule of law. and that steve bannon should not be able to get away with completely ignoring a subpoena by the committee investigating the january 6th attacks. >> so, ken, there's a lot of talk about merrick garland and doj taking their time, possibly taking too long before this indictment was handed out. can you take us behind the scenes from what you know and your reporting? talk about that delay, and if garland is now setting things up for more indictments like the ones that were handed down to steve bannon. >> yeah. well, i think what people have
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to understand is this is a really difficult matter. this is not a slam dunk. i mean, first of all, the -- although the claim of executive privilege in the case of steve bannon seems weak here, this question of to what extent a former president can invoke executive privilege is a live question. it's being litigated in the other case where donald trump is suing the national archives. that could cause problems for these potential prosecutions. in bannon's case clearly they felt like they had a strong case. he was not a government employee. they want to know what he was saying at the willard hotel in that meeting on january 5th. and to what extent if any there were any plans made for the following day. they want to know why he was saying on his radio show that things were going to explode on january 6th. but you know, as i mentioned, the justice department has brought only a handful of these cases in the last 30 years.
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contempt of congress cases. they really don't want to get involved in these political disputes. and these are difficult cases. and so there was a lot of thought that went into this. but at the end of the day, the grand jury handed down the indictment on friday and we'll see steve bannon today. >> ken, based on your reporting, it would suggest that perhaps it would be more reluctant to bring similar charges against mark meadows, because obviously a much tighter set of facts supporting the possibility of presidential executive privilege. >> yeah. exactly. that's going to be a harder case. the chief of staff obviously there are conversations between the chief of staff and the president that presumably would be covered by executive privilege, but there are other issues, you know, and particularly documents that maybe clearly are not. so it's possible they'll carve out a more narrow window.
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right now med koe -- meadows is saying he's not going to comply with demands from the january 6th committee because he believes that the president has asked him to ib voek executive privilege and he says it's a matter for the courts. we'll have to see what happens on that one. there may be other people where it's a more clear cut case. the issue is there's a political calendar here. this committee wants to get a report out by the spring. and to the extent that donald trump and his minions are able to delay and throw this into the courts, and the courts take a while, you know, they win in a sense. so -- but the good news here is the january 6th committee is investigating a lot of different avenues. they have a lot of different ways to get information. they have very good staff including former justice department lawyers, so they're doing their work. >> nbc's ken dlan ran, thank you very much. we'll be following your reporting throughout the day. it should be quite a day there. while that is happening at the d.c. courthouse, at the
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white house president biden will sign the bipartisan infrastructure bill. 19 republican senators and 13 republican members of the house backed the plan, but most of them plan to steer clear of today's event. several of those republican lawmakers have faced serious backlash for supporting the bill. "the wall street journal" reports one example. new york police arrested a man last week and charged him with aggravated harassment in the second degree for allegedly making a death threat against congressman andrew gaborino on a phone call monday. only a few republicans have publicly confirmed they will attend the signing, including senators lisa murkowski of alaska and susan collins of maine. joining us, mayor nan wheyly of
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dayton, ohio. she's in washington for the infrastructure bill signing. we'll start there. you're going to be at the event signing. the signing ceremony today. tell us what you hope this will bring to the people who voted for you, to the people of ohio, and how quickly do you think americans will feel the changes of this bill? >> well, i think democrat and republican mayors across the country are overjoyed. we've been working to get an infrastructure bill passed for three presidents now. and to have it be signed today is a sign that we'll be able to get to work on some of the much-needed roads, bridges, ports, broadband, public transportation, that we've been really crying for for the past decade. so it's a great day for ohio cities and america's cities across the country. >> so for dayton, what are you going to be like finally, what are people going to be finally
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seeing that they've been waiting a long time for? >> i think we're most excited for the fancy idea of roads. in the city of dayton, we have had to be a little slower at really building our artery streets, because we need federal and state funding. as that has waned, it's made the timeline get longer and longer but the road need continues to grow. so i know that's not the fanciest thing, but the most important thing that people will see right away. and certainly across the state of ohio, whether i'm in south eastern ohio or in an urban city like cleveland, the issue around broadband has become a real, real problem, particularly coming out of covid. that's what people need for jobs but it's also what people need for schools and we're seeing real challenges with that. so to have the real investment for future technology in our communities is going to be a great deal, too. >> good morning. it's jonathan lamire. you're running for governor, and it's a state, ohio, that has trended republican in recent cycles. what is your message there?
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why do you think your candidacy could be different? >> well, look, jonathan, i think the people of ohio are frustrated because they've been ignored with one party rule at the state house. these issues, the issues we face in dayton are similar to the issues that are being faced in fansfield and at the state house, called the most corrupt house in the country, we are not seeing is interest of communities being the top of mind at the state house. and that's what we're trying to do. we know that these basic needs are really needed in our communities. and we want to make sure that those issues, making sure people have one good job to provide for their families, is a priority for the governor, and for the entire state. >> all right. president of the u.s. conference of mayors, mayor nan whaly, thank you for being with us this morning. let's bring into the conversation democratic governor
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from new mexico who will also be at the bill signing at the white house today. good to have you on the show this morning. >> governor, thank you for being here. what's the most important part of this bipartisan bill for your state? >> well, we're pretty thrilled about every piece of it, but make no mistake, the broadband, water, and bridges and roads are really critical for us. you know, new mexico, unfortunately, is a state with such rural distinct unique populations. some members of the navajo nation still don't have access to running water. and certainly it was a huge issue in covid. but it's something that the state finally has an opportunity to eradicate those injustices one and for all. >> how important is it that this is a bipartisan bill? obviously a lot of republicans are being attacked by extreme elements inside their own party. but it is a bipartisan bill. it is one of the few times in
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recent years that democrats and republicans have come together and said we need to get this right. >> it's critical. i was a cabinet secretary for three different governors, two democrats, one republican. i always had a bipartisan working relationship with the new mexico state legislature. i do that now. work really diligently, particularly on economic pieces of legislation. and infrastructure is one of the best economic tools we have. it is critical that congress get back to a place where they can practically and pragmatically work together on things that fix significant problems for the country. and this is a monumental success story. >> all right. new mexico governor michelle lujan grish m, thank you very much. joe, what we're hearing from the mayor and governor and what we'll hear at the ceremony today is how many jobs this will
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create, and opportunities. i wonder how that lines up with the lay your shortage and people not stepping up for jobs. i just -- it will be interesting to see how that plays out. >> yeah. i mean, it's going to be good-paying jobs. right now we have a few things that are really causing some problems as far as jobs go. we've talked about a lot of them. it is interesting. i talked about going through some -- and here you see the polls. overwhelming number of americans support the bipartisan bill. almost 6 in 10 americans support the social spending bill. there are a lot of people talking about, as i said, some people that support donald trump, this weekend were emailing me an awful lot about rittenhouse which is sort of an infortunate cause to take up, if that's your definition of conservatism, something that police officers wouldn't like,
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sort of a different conservatism than ronald reagan and buckley and all of my conservative heros support it. on the other side, a lot of talk act 7 00 thurks people died from covid. that has a lot to do with the work force coming up short. i think it's a lot of things. one thing we haven't talked about, jonathan lamire and the work force is legal immigration is down a good bit because immigration is down a good bit. a lot of those immigrants through the years have taken a lot of these jobs in restaurants and in other areas that entry level positions. people just getting to this country that right now are not being filled. and so that's something that has to come into this conversation as well. >> you're right. it's an overlooked storyline. pandemic related. borders have been closed. there has not been the immigration there normally would be. there have been hopes among democrats to have an immigration
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measure in this reconciliation package that seems unlikely. it's something this administration will hope to turn to in 2022. that has been the -- there were a lot of people on the left who have pushed the white house to do more on certain issues. voting rights number one. immigration is second. and it's perhaps not as much of a headline as it was during the trump administration. but it's important for so many people, for a variety of reasons including this one with the work force. so we should expect the white house to turn toward this next year whether there's any congressional buy-in, remains far from clear. >> "the new york times" had an editorial where they talked about most americans want the border secured. they also want, though, people to be able to come in legally. also want refugees to be able to apply legally in that process. right now it's not happening. there remains chaos at the border. it's been that way for several
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years. we've said this all along. it's so funny when you hear trumpers jumping up and down and talking about how things have gotten so much worse since joe biden has been president. things have been bad since donald trump became president. in 2016, barack obama's last year as president of the united states, by the way, these are numbers that you could have seen at the trump administration on the websites for them, too. barack obama when he was president his last year, illegal crossings were at a 50-year low. just stop and think about that for a second. illegal crossings were at a 50-year low. and in the obama/biden administration, they skyrocketed under donald trump. they are continuing to skyrocket now. obviously joe biden needs to figure out exactly what worked when he and barack obama were in the white house before and duplicate that.
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>> there's that, but as they celebrate the bipartisan infrastructure bill today, i would also suggest that they look at the many different crises facing this administration and think about like a supply chain czar. there's a couple different things american consumers and this is what -- this is what's going to impact the way they vote. that are impacting them right now. they can celebrate a bipartisan infrastructure bill about what's coming. that's great. but what's happening right now? like, massive shortages in supply chain issues and that's going to stay with us for months and months. >> mika, the 60 minutes piece last night on the supply chain, crisis -- >> bill whitaker's piece, it's done so well. you should go online, take a look at that. >> it's striking. >> and it's striking. but you sit there and look at all the bottle necks. and the conclusion that both mika and i came away with was this is exactly what the federal
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government is for. >> yep. >> one of the many things. if you have a lot of private companies that aren't communicating with each other, that's causing a bottle neck, that's hurting business owners up and down the supply line, that hurting consumers. >> regulations getting in the way. >> up and down the supply line. regulations getting in the way, miscommunication. this is where the federal government needs to step in and coordinate this. and they need to do it aggressively. not just because of the christmas presents that are going to be held up, but more importantly, because our economic recovery kpends on it. >> and the christmas presents. coming un, what ted cruz is saying about fellow republican liz cheney. plus you just knew snl was going to take on the fight with big bird, and the show, let's just say knew the assignment. i was mocked for attacking big bird on twitter. simply because i'm a human senator and he is an 8-foot-tall
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fictional bird, but let's see what happened to big bird after he got the vaccine. >> oh, man. i don't feel too good. ♪♪ vo: just getting by, it's an ongoing struggle. that's why president biden and democrats in congress have a plan to lower costs for america's working families. lower costs of healthcare premiums and the price of prescription drugs. pay less for electric bills by moving to clean energy. and do it all by making the ultra-wealthy pay their fair share of taxes. it'd be a win for the everyday american family.
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right when they could really use one. congress, let's get this done.
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for 50 years i taught by sesame street stood dangerous ideas like kindness. but when big bird told -- i created my own sesame street called cruz street. it's a gated community. where kids are safe from the woke government. i read online that you can take a bath in borax and that will cleanse you of any nano
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technologies. >> you sure, senator? that sounds kind of dumb. >> you're dumb. borax is cool. >> maybe the vaccine gave me covid. >> yes, yes, that sounds correct. >> all right. some of snl's cold open lampooning ted cruz for picking a fight with big bird over the covid vaccine. and more from cruz who on saturday suggested in a tweet that the only path for republican congresswoman liz cheney in a 2024 presidential run would be to join the democratic party. cheney was quick to respond, tweeting back, quote, i know you're posturing for the people to vote, ted, but my party, the republican party, saved the union. you swore an oath to the constitution. act like it. >> and, of course, that's a followup. liz cheney, many people are suggesting the toughest cheney. i don't know about that.
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she's got two parents that are -- yeah, qualifying it. and it's neck and neck in that. >> neck and neck. >> but she's talking about ted cruz who suggested in texas at a speech that texas might succeed from the union if they considered making d.c. a state. things that have been talked about for quite some time. >> president biden will tackle u.s./china registrations in a virtual summit. both chinese and the chinese president will speak amid growing tensions between the two superpowers. the u.s. has been critical of the chinese government's treatment of muslims at northwest china, the handling of protests in hong kong, and failing to cooperate with covid investigations. white house officials say they have low expectations for the
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outcomes of the meeting. joining us now, the president of the council on foreign relations. >> the internal issues that we've expressed concerns about, a good bit inside of china. there's the regional issues around china whether you're talking about taiwan, whether you're talking about north korea. it seems we have even less of a chance to have impact on those. and then you have, of course, the global challenges, whether it's climate change or arms proliferation. tell me, if you're talking to biden, what are you telling him to go into this meeting trying to do? what positive take aways can he get from it? >> probably the most positive take away is to institution allize followup meetings. i know it doesn't sound sexy but cough the cabinet level senior officials on both sides begin to have serious conversations on all the issues you talked about.
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to deal it doin a little bit in public and to have these be more private.emphasize, it would note the internal stuff. they'll push back and ignore us. i would focus as much as anything on taiwan. and i would essentially privately let chinese know that yes, we do not support taiwan independence. we continue to adhere to the so-called three communication negotiated decades ago, but, but, but, if china uses force, if it tries to coerce taiwan, we'll be there to back it up. i would make it clear to china they do not have a free hand there. >> so will the american people support military force against china if they go into taiwan? >> well, i think part of what we need to do is begin to talk about it more. right now it's too much conversation here and foreign affairs magazine and a few other
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places. it's something the administration needs to talk about publicly. something the administration needs to talk about with congress. by the way, i think there will be bipartisan support for rather robust u.s. line. but we haven't prepared -- we haven't explained the stakes. over the weekend, joe, the australian defense minister said that australia would be with us if we stood up to china over taiwan. japan is moving clearly in that direction. the allies in the region expect it. indeed, if we were not to do it, it would be the end of the post world war ii alliance system in asia. a lot is at stake here. and china can be deterred. it's by no means hopeless. we've got to begin to not -- we have to do things in the region with military force. we've got to get the europeans on board. they've got to tell the chinese if you act, here's the economic sanctions you will face. and yes, we need to begin to have this conversation with the american people. president biden has spoken to the american people several times about afghanistan.
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he's not spoken to the american people about this. i would say he needs to. >> richard haas, thank you so much for being on this morning. >> that was great. coming up, closing arguments begin today in the trial of kyle rittenhouse. we'll have new details from wisconsin where the national guard is on standby. "morning joe" is back in a moment. moment ♪ you can get it if you really want it, by jimmy cliff ♪ [suitcase closing] [gusts of wind] [ding] ♪♪ this flag isn't backwards. it's facing this way because it's moving forward. [gusts of wind] ♪♪ just like the men and women who wear it on their uniforms and the country it represents. they're all only meant to move one direction which is why we fly it this way on the flanks of the all-new grand wagoneer. moving boldly and unstoppably forward.
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overwhelmed. i was a nervous wreck. my stomach was in knots. kyle did a good job. when he broke down, i broke down. >> reporter: knowing what he knows now, knowing what it was that chaotic of a situation, do you think he should have -- do you think he would have gone down there again? >> probably not. >> reporter: the now 18-year-old faces six charges related to the night he killed two people during protests following the shooting of a black man last summer in kenosha, wisconsin. the most serious charge is intentional homicide. if convicted rittenhouse could face life in prison. the judge indicated he'll allow the jury to consider at least some lesser charges. >> the fact that the prosecution in this case is asking for lesser included offenses may signal that they're not feeling that confident about their first degree or top level homicide charges. >> reporter: worried about the potential for violence, the
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governor has authorized about 500 national guard troops should local authorities ask for their help. the case has attracted intense scrutiny, dividing americans who see rittenhouse either as a vigilante looking for trouble or a patriot protecting kenosha from rioters. his mother says her son is being treated for ptsd. what do you say to people who look at this case and think this teenager had no business bringing a military style weapon to this chaotic scene? >> a lot of people shouldn't have been there. you know? and he brung that gun for protection. and to this day, if he didn't have that gun, my son would have been dead. >> are you anticipating looking forward to, dreading the verdict? how would you describe what your feelings are going into this? >> i'm scared. >> obviously it's hard not to feel for a mother there.
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and being scared for her son, it is strange that when asked whether he would have gone there and, again, she said probably not. and also saying if he didn't have his gun, he probably would have been killed that night, but, again, it begs the question, why in the world would somebody be driven across state lines illegally be carrying around an ar-15, and actually going to a scene where it was unstable? i also have to say this is strange. i looked at some messages this weekend. and it's just -- this rittenhouse, rittenhouse, rittenhouse. you have a lot of extreme people that have decided they're going to embrace somebody that violated gun laws that acted in a way with a gun that certainly
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none of my friends, and i'm second amendment guy, none -- and gun owner as mika's family has been in her entire life. law-abiding gun owners don't like seeing people breaking the laws and running around in open streets with ar-15s. i'll tell you who else doesn't like that. police officers. our military. that a chaotic situation with somebody who is untrained with a weapon, going in the middle of civilians and just looking for trouble, and it is trouble that he found. mika? >> and coming up, a new book describes just how much pressure was brought to bear on mike pence to overturn the election. jonathan karl has the scoop, and he joins us straight ahead with more. with more
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were you worried about his safety? >> i thought he was well-presented and i heard he was in good shape. i heard he was in very good shape. but no -- >> you know there was a chance. that was terrible. >> he could have, well, the people were very angry. >> they were saying hang mike pence. >> it's common sense, jon, that you're supposed to protect. if you know a vote is fraudulent, how can you pass on a fraudulent vote to congress? >> wow. former president trump defending the january 6th rioters who were hunting down then vice president pence. jonathan karl interviewed the lengths the former president and his allies went to overturn the
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2020 election loss. then white house chief of staff mark meadows played a key role in trying to convince pence he had the authority to stop the certification, sending an email to a top aid, for the former vice president, detailing a plan to undo joe biden's election win. the memo was written by former trump lawyer jenna ellis. and centered around the vote totals of six battle ground states that trump insisted he won. joining us now with more on that, and the final days of the trump presidency, chief washington correspondent for abc news, jonathan karl. the new book is titled" betrayal, the final act of the trump". >> it looked like a clown show except these people were in the white house and trying to
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overthrow the united states government or overturn an election of an american president. when every judge said there was nothing to these charges. what was your take away talking to donald trump and digging into this as deeply as you did? >> well, first of all, i think that the role of mark meadows that tuz just -- that was mentioned by mika is important. there's been a lot of talk about the memo written by john eastman, the outside lawyer who advised trump. this was right in the white house. this was the white house chief of staff. this was one of his campaign lawyers outlining a very specific plan with dates and times that was all centering on mike pence obeying the orders of donald trump, and it was a plan that if pence had gone along with, would have resulted in a much bigger constitutional crisis than what we saw. and joe, what i found is that's just one example of where this
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could have gone off the rails and almost did go off the rails even in a more spectacular way than it did. >> yep. well, just one example. jonathan, a shocking example. a guy who was a member of the united states congress goes over to work for the white house, and he's actively working to overthrow the united states government. to overthrow the elected president of the united states. it's absolutely staggering. in your reporting, how widespread was the contempt that donald trump staff members had for the united states constitution, for the peaceful transfer of power, for political and constitutional norms? >> and i'll add one other, for sanity. mark meadows played a role throughout this, and joe and mika, i document this chapter and verse. the role that meadows played during the transition to chase down, to pursue every harebrain scheme donald trump had. every conspiracy theory to try
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to undo what is really the central -- the central miracle of american democracy, a peaceful transition of power. meadows was using the intention agencies, was pressuring the pentagon, the justice department into doing this in the end with mike pence. much of this not known at the time. he just played this role of trying to use all means necessary to effectuate what would have been a coup. it was a coup, overturning a proper election. >> jonathan, i know this guy. i've had breakfast with this guy. many times talking about when he was still in congress, giving him advice on focusing more on issues that matter to americans than some of the crazy stuff, the freedom caucus was going after. i'm sure you've talked to him a good bit was ale.
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he's a likable guy. but he's also a likable guy who tried to overthrow the united states government. i guess not dare call it treason, but that's what it would be called any other time aside from right now. in reporting on this book, did you get tot the motivation for why why people who had seemed to be good people in their past lives moved into the trump white house, moved into the trump sphere? and did things that no one would have ever believed they would have done four or five years ago? >> well, i think a big part of it was fear. and this is why another theme in the book is the role of johnny, the guy that carried trump's bags during the campaign in the first year of the trump presidency before he was fired for issues in his fbi background check. he comes back to the trump white
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house in early 2020, and is put in charge of presidential personnel. and really what he does is conducts a purge of the executive branch. firing or intimidating into silence anybody who would dare do anything to disagree or contradict or to challenge or to question what donald trump wanted to do. so by the time you get to the transition, there's really nobody left around donald trump except for those that are all in and willing to do whatever it is he wants to do, or they're there but touting the silence. by and large, they're all in for whatever trump wants. >> wow. >> so jonathan, it is shocking. you obviously -- you would expect that of people who had been his golf caddie before or worked at his golf course. actually, i wouldn't expect that of any american. treason is treason. but you have mainstream
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republican figures that, again, were willing to betray the united states, its constitution, peaceful transfer of power. we have people like bill stepian who were respected and would be so -- you know, people would reach out to have him work on their campaigns. what about people like that that got into his orbit and got involved in this? >> well, i get into that. there's people like bill stepian and justin carr. people involved in the campaign who when rudy giuliani and sydney powell came in with the wild conspiracy theories and all of that, they basically took a step aside. they were not part of this effort, but they weren't actively coming out to try to stop it. i'll give you another example. jared kushner who obviously is one of the most powerful and important people in the west wing, at one point jared kushner
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gets a call from mark short who is the chief of staff for mike pence. this is during the holidays right before january. and he gets a call from short and says please, jarod, can you talk to your father-in-law? this is getting dangerous. somebody needs to tell him who he will listen to, that mike pence cannot single handedly joer turn the election. talk to him. he listens to you. jarod's answer was, you know, ever since rudy giuliani came in, i don't have any part of this election stuff. i'm focussed on middle east peace. i got things to do over here. and he refused to go and have an intervention with his father-in-law. so those who knew better and weren't on the program with what trump wanted to do simply took a step back and did nothing. it's a very -- it's like jon stewart mills quote, all it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. there were a lot of people doing nothing around trump at that time. >> right.
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so you spoke with minority leader kevin mccarthy about defying trump, and you gave this analysis in the book of his answer. quote, i nodded toward the monuments along the national mall. memorials to political national mall, memorials to political leaders, remembered precisely because of the things that were both important and difficult to do. who knows, i said, if you do the right thing, maybe there will be a statute of you out here someday. mccarthy laughed. where's the statue for jeff flake? where's the statue for that guy from tennessee, he said, referring to the former republican senator bob corker who like former republican senator jeff flake had stood up to trump during trump's first two years in office. you continue. mccarthy could see the speakership within his grasp in 2022, but if he crossed trump, he figured he'd face an insurrection and could be voted out as leader. history could wait.
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his chance to be speaker could not. whatever kevin mccarthy thought of trump's lies and his lost cause and the damage it all was doing to our democracy, he wasn't going to do anything that would risk his chance to be the next speaker of the house. and then here is what former president trump told you about kevin mccarthy and mitch mcconnell. >> if mcconnell and mccarthy fought harder, okay, you could have a republican president right now. and now they don't have anything. >> wow. he doesn't stand by his men at all in any way. >> i mean, and look, mccarthy, and this was a walk that i had with him on the national mall on january 2nd, you know, just days before the actual insurrection, and the thrust of what he is saying is that he can manipulate
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donald trump, that by staying close to trump, he can prevent him from doing things that would be more damaging. that's really what mccarthy was saying in addition to talking about his own political, you know, future. but what was extraordinary to me in talking to trump is that trump is as bitter towards mccarthy as he is towards mitch mcconnell. and you know what he's saying about mitch mcconnell so what happens to kevin mccarthy if republicans win back the house? does donald trump do something to try to sink his chance of getting the speakership, and wouldn't that be quite a turn. so mccarthy knows what the truth is. absolutely. and he stood by trump, he didn't challenge him. he defied his own principles, such as they are, and you know, now he's rewarded with this from donald trump. so i think that's going to be a very interesting dynamic to play. one other thing about mccarthy
quote
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is trump condemned all of these republicans during the course of my interview, you know, pence, mccarthy, barr, his former cabinet secretaries, all of them, but he did praise marjorie taylor greene, and said she was traffic and stopped for him and stood for him, and added kevin hasn't treated her properly. kevin hasn't treated her properly. there's real bitterness that surprised me trump has towards kevin mccarthy, despite the way mccarthy has stood by him. >> we haven't talked, and i don't know what your conversations with kevin mccarthy have been, but it is interesting, it's hard to talk to somebody off the record who hasn't written a book that doesn't say that kevin mccarthy isn't one of their great sources, he leaks like a sieve, wants everybody to know he has contempt for donald trump, attacks donald trump off the record, and i was struck by the
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fact that he let it out about the private phone call he had that he was shouting at donald trump and swearing at him. it's very interesting that it seems mccarthy is still trying to do this, as dan rather would say, texas two step, you could never do that with donald trump. you're all in or you're all out. >> he's doing the chris christie. >> i mean, you know, mccarthy looks at situation where the majority of his conference, the majority of those house republicans are all in for donald trump, and maybe a majority of that majority are truly in. i mean, like believe everything, they're part of the cult, and so mccarthy is the leader of that conference. and his vision of leadership is doings will of those that elected him leader, and there you are. i think that's why you see what you see. >> hey, john, it's jonathan le
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mere, good morning, and congrats on the book. i want to talk about reporting banded out a lot in the trump years ago the 25th amendment, which allows for the potential removal of the president if he is deemed incapacitated physically or mentally, and you have conversations with secretary mnuchin and secretary of state pompeo. walk us through what you found. >> i learned rock solid sourcing on this. i learned that steven mnuchin had a conversation with mike pompeo on the evening of january 6th. and, i learned that mnuchin had several conversations about the 25th amendment and further, that mike mike pompeo actually asked for a legal analysis of the 25th amendment and how it would work. the idea quickly was jetisonned, you had on january 7th cabinet
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members resign, devos resign, the labor secretary resign. it became apparent that the 25th amendment was not going to work. it would not be quick enough. it would be subject to legal challenges. but in the hours after the riot, there were high level conversations and here is the fascinating detail i found out working on the book. i reached out to mnuchin and pompeo over and over and over and over again, and they would not say anything to me on the record. did they favor it, did they not favor it. did they discuss it, did they not discuss it until as i was just about to go to press, i had one final telephone interview with donald trump, and i brought all of this up with him, and said, you know why is that these guys won't even deny it, they won't even, you know, if you say it's not true, why won't they deny it, and then within a couple of hours after that interview ended i suddenly got a call from one of pompeo's top
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aides, saying, oh, you know what, we've got a quote for you, yeah, yeah, here it is. secretary pompeo never talked about the 25th amendment, not even once. i'm sorry, i missed the beginning of it. a spokesperson for secretary pompeo says that he never had a single conversation about 25th amendment, not even once, and i asked this person, can i quote you by name, spokesperson, xxx, no, no, no, just keep it a spokesperson. it was a lie, they knew it was a lie, and the only -- mnuchin hasn't denied anything, but pompeo denied it simply because he got a call from mar-a-lago saying, you know, what's going on here. >> jonathan, in closing, talk to us about the mindset of donald trump, a guy that we've both known for quite a while.
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what was his mindset? did he seem talking to him, did you get the sense that this was a guy who was looking for forward to running again in 2024 or could you draw no conclusions from your conversations? >> i got the sense from him, first of all, that he's exhilarated by talking about the bitterness, and the betrayals and transgressions that he believes has been done by fellow republicans. he enjoys the conversation. it's a dark conversation but he loves it. i found him entirely focused on the past what you have seen and what he has done publicly. people around him saying he's definitely running. it's a done deal. it sound like he's running in his public remarks. i don't think he's going to run. i think it's all about the past and about trying to make people, you know, remain relevant, but i think that even donald trump knows that if he runs, he may win the republican nomination
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but his odds of winning are very remote, and he does not want to lose again. >> all right. the new book is betrayal. the final act of the trump show. jonathan karl, thank you so much. >> always great talking to you. write a book every week, so we can have you on our show every week. >> just join our show. >> exactly. another new book is from former governor chris christie and in it he describes the phone call he had with president trump last year when they were both hospitalized with coronavirus. "the new york times" reporting on the story in the book writes that christie got a call from the former president who had one main concern, trump asked him quote are you going to say you got it from me? christie announced he tested positive for covid on october 3rd of last year, one of roughly three dozen people in the
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unmasked, and white house ceremony for supreme court nominee amy coney barrett. look forward to that. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. hanie ruhle e coverage right now hey there, i'm stephanie ruhle live at msnbc headquarters here in new york city. it is monday, november 15th, and we have got a lot of news to get to this morning, so let's get smarter. right now, we're watching a federal courthouse where trump ally steve bannon could turn himself in any minute now. he is facing charges for defying a subpoena, and that is very season business. the january 6th committee warning he might not be the last to face a subpoena. while in kenosha, wisconsin, the trial of kyle rittenhouse will resume in one hour from now, each side set to deliver closing arguments before turning the case over to the jury. also

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