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tv   Katy Tur Reports  MSNBC  November 22, 2021 11:00am-12:00pm PST

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attempting to flee from a felony. burglary is a felony. entering a dwelling place without authority, with the intent to commit a theft in there. not an actual theft, but the reason, the mindset for going into a place that's not yours. so how do you know that if there wasn't actually a theft? just walmsley will tell you, the law will allow you to infer an intent to steal. if there is an unlawful entry, meaning crossing into a place that's not yours, a place where -- >> you're watching close arguments in the trial of three men accused of killing ahmaud arbery. this is the defense attorney for greg mcmichael. we'll put a pause on this for just a moment and go to waukesha, wisconsin where police are now giving an update on the
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car that rammed into a holiday parade, killing at least five and injuring more than 40 others. right now they are beginning this news conference with a prayer. let's listen. >> let us take strength from your eternal promise that you will never leave us nor for sake us. we ask this all with great humility and confidence in your most powerful name. amen. >> thank you, chaplain. chief dan thompson. >> i'm just going to recap and provide an update. at 4:39 p.m. on sunday, november 21st, 2021, a lone subject intentionally drove his maroon suv through barricades into a crowd of people that was celebrating the waukesha christmas parade which resulted in killing five individuals and injuring 48 additional individuals. i just received information that
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two of the 48 are children and they're in critical condition. we have information that the suspect prior to the incident was involved in a domestic disturbance just minutes prior, and the suspect left that scene just prior to our arrival to that domestic disturbance. when the suspect was driving through and into the crowd, one officer did discharge his firearm and fire shots at the suspect to stop the threat but due to the amount of people, had to stop could not fire any other additional shots. the officer is on administrative leave as part of departmental protocol. no one was injured as a result of the officer discharging his firearm. the subject was taken into
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custody a short distance from the scene and we are confident he acted alone. there is no evidence that this is a terrorist incident. due to the wind yesterday, there was a power outage in downtown waukesha to further complicate our emergency response. i want to identify the victims that we know of at this time. and i say this with great sorrow. virginia sorenson, 79-year-old female. leanna owens, 71-year-old female. tomorrow ara durand, 52-year-old female. jane kulich, 52-year-old female. wilhelm hospital, 81-year-old male. the suspect involved in this tragic incident is identified as
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darrell e. brooks, male, 39 years of age, who is a resident of southern milwaukee. at this time the waukesha police department is referring five counts of first degree intentional homicide with additional charges based on the investigation. but those will come in time. there are many roads in the downtown area that were closed as investigators worked through the crime scene. those roads have since been opened. i'll say this. minutes after the incident occurred, i responded to the scene. and what i saw out of chaos and tragedy was heroism. first responders and the community coming together and working together on triaging victims. the fire department, working in partnership with the fire department, getting these victims to the hospital. the fire department transported multiple victims.
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the chief will talk about that. officers picked up victims and put them in the squad and rushed them to the hospital and citizens also picked up victims and rushed them to the hospital. there is also off-duty law enforcement, fire, and ems personnel that were attending this event, who really got involved and took part in saving lives. i want to thank our community partners. i want to dispel some rumors. there is no pursuit that led up to this incident. this is not a terrorist event. i want to thank our first responder partners. it is a long list and i apologize. we apologize if i forgot anyone. waukesha fire department.
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no words can express the partnership that we have with the waukesha fire department and how we work together as one in this incident. mutual aid, the chief will talk about that. the suburban mutual aid response team which we call s.m.a.r.t. respondent which includes a dozen local law enforcement agencies. fbi, atf. the state division of criminal investigations. school district in waukesha. the milwaukee police department fusion center. wisconsin state crime lab, wisconsin state patrol. after this press conference, we'll provide a link on our website for any questions regarding witness information. if there is any additional
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video, they can look at this link or any family members or individuals that need to recover property. the waukesha police department website is the only source for information. do not release information from any other source as it has not been vetted and could lead to false information. thank you. >> chief howard. >> thank you, dan. before i get started, behalf the men and women of the waukesha fire department, i would like to say our prayers go out to the families and the whole community that was affected by yesterday's tragedy. on the city of waukesha fire department responded to a mass casualty incident yesterday afternoon. all 26 onduty personnel responded to the incident from five stations. our closest downtown station was within sight of the parade route. our units started to
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spontaneously respond based on radio traffic and dispatch information. we immediately activated our mass casualty protocol and utilized the mutual aid system, mutual box alarm system, to the second level, to provide us with additional resources to treat the victims. we received resources from 12 area fire departments. we were also aided greatly by off-duty firefighters and ems personnel, medical personnel, and just civilian bystanders. they greatly assisted us with our initial treatment and triage of patients. patients were transported to six area hospitals, with fire department, ems transporting 22 patients. law enforcement personnel, bystanders, also transported additional victims to the
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hospital. at this time we believe that 48 people were treated at local hospitals, although this number might increase based on information being gathered. like chief thompson, i also had an opportunity, i did respond to the incident, got there just a little bit after the chief did. and based on my observations, very, very overwhelmed by the response of the community to this tragedy. people banded together to do the best they could to deal with this incident. last night, going out and visiting the fire stations and the people that responded, overwhelmingly our personnel expressed their sincere thanks for everyone who stepped up and assisted with the treatment of the citizens that were injured. again, our hearts go out to the families and the victims of this
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senseless tragedy and we appreciate all the assistance and support that's been offered to the city of waukesha fire department. >> mayor sean riley. >> thank you. last night we experienced a senseless tragedy. many of us were participants in the parade and witnessed these horrific actions. we are all trying to process what we experienced. our police, firefighters, partners, and so many others jumping into action last night to help the people that were injured. for those of you who do not live in waukesha, you need to know that waukesha is a community that helps their neighbors. waukesha is a community that takes pride in its identity and has a wonderful spirit. waukesha looks after each other. waukesha enjoys its celebrations and the entire community joins in those celebrations. we are a close community.
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waukesha is a community where many of its residents have lived for generations. waukesha is also the type of community where new residents tell their friends to move here because it is so special. waukesha has held what is described as a norman rockwell type christmas parade for decades. last night our wonderful waukesha parade became the scene of a horrific tragedy. last night, that parade became a nightmare. last night, many were severely injured. last night, lives were lost during the middle of what should have been a celebration. last night, many were severely injured, lost their lives, and all were traumatized. we experienced a horrific tragedy. we have so much healing that needs to occur. waukesha, though, will not be defined by the horrific events
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of last night. we are a community that will come together. we will help those who experienced the loss of a loved one or were injured. we will work together to bring healing. the healing needs to begin now. with that in mind i share the following. a prayer vigil will be held tonight at 5:00 p.m. at cutler park. the waukesha public library, which is adjacent to it, will be closing at 4:00 p.m. so the public can utilize that parking lot. the downtown south street parking ramp, which is also immediately near it, will also be open for free parking. we know that members of the community want to help out and help the victims. the waukesha county community foundation and united way of greater milwaukee and waukesha county have joined together to create the united for waukesha community fund. this fund will support the needs
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of the families impacted. and there will be a website on our page that will tell you how to access that fund. many people witnessed traumatic events last evening. if you need to talk to someone, you can call our text 800-985-5990 to be connected to a trained, caring counselor. and they are available 24/7. that number will also be on our website. please, only call 911 for true emergencies. there will be a resource center set up at carroll university for all victims from 2:00 to 6:00 p.m. tuesday and 9:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. on wednesday. that information will be placed upon our website. the district attorney victim assistance program is also available to provide assistance and an email for that service will be shared on social media.
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our community needs to heal from physical injury and emotional trauma, and what was taken from us by this senseless act. what we do today and the days ahead is what will define us as a city. and i know we will come together and help waukesha heal. thank you. >> dr. jim seibert. >> good afternoon, everyone. i'm deeply saddened by yesterday's events and the tremendous impact they're having on both our school community and the larger waukesha community. i want to begin by thanking our partners at the city and the police and fire departments for their leadership and partnership. we are focused on our kids, our staff, and our families and making resources available to them. we stand with our community and are one of the resources for support as we navigate this tragic event. the school district of waukesha is providing internal assistance as well as resources outside of
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the district to support kids, staff, and families. should families need guidance on how to address trauma with your children, please do not hesitate to reach out to the student services staff at your child's school. we are actively dispatching additional support to our schools for staff and students. your school administration and student services team can connect you with our crisis counseling staff in a very timely manner. school psychologists, social workers, school counselors, and community mental health providers are available and trained to support children and families in crisis today and into the future. i also want to thank our surrounding school districts, waukesha county, our local health care partners, the department of public instruction, and the governor's office for their support of the school district of waukesha during this time. we also provided meals today from noon to 1:00 p.m. across the district and we will do the same tomorrow at the following
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sites via their main entrance. butler, horning, and les paul middle schools as well as north, south, and west high schools. i'm announcing at this time that the school district of waukesha will again be closed for classes on tuesday, november 23rd. our counseling and lunch services will be available to students and staff again tomorrow. the district will resume classes after the thanksgiving holiday per our school calendar on monday, november 29th. we ask that you respect the privacy of our students, staff, and families and that you do not try to interview students, staff, or families at our school sites. further information and any additional updates will continue to be available on our district website. and i am deeply sorry that we are here today. and we look forward to healing both as a school community and a larger waukesha community. >> alan johnson.
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>> good afternoon. i'm vice president for critical care and specialty services. in my role i work closely with our critical care units and our mass casualty incident command process. i would like to start by expressing my sympathies and those of everyone for the victims and their families. this was truly a tragedy for our entire community. i would like to thank all of the first responders and the others who came together to do what was required last night. all involved did outstanding work. among the 48 victims of the parade tragedy who were transported to area hospitals, 29 arrived at waukesha memorial hospital. the hospital is just blocks away from the parade route. victims started arriving very quickly after the incident. many of our staff were attending
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the parade, witnessed this tragedy, and provided immediate first aid to victims. there were many children among the victims brought to waukesha memorial. after initial assessment, stabilization, and treatment, we transferred 11 of those to children's of wisconsin. four victims were admitted to waukesha memorial. they are all currently stable and many of them will likely discharge from the hospital today. those patients admitted included both children and adults. 12 people were treated in our emergency department and released. one patient presented to us and left without being seen. sadly, one of the victims who was brought to waukesha memorial was pronounced dead on arrival. in addition to those who were on duty at waukesha memorial last night, many others rushed to the hospital to help. they included nearly every one of our emergency department
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physicians, countless surgeons, anesthesiologists, hospitals, and nurses. what i saw on display last night in response to this crisis was nothing less than the highest level of professionalism. our coordination with local fire and local ems worked flawlessly in the face of this incident. and on behalf of pro health care, i want to thank everybody for participating. thank you. >> at this time we'll open it up for a few questions. but be mindful. nick, i'll start with you from channel 12. be mindful we'll be limited in scope with the information that can be released at this time due to maintaining the integrity of the investigation and the judicial response. we want to be transparent but are mindful that we're not going to compromise in any aspect of this investigation. we're dealing with five counts of intentional first degree
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homicide here. please be mindful of those when you ask your questions. nick. >> reporter: what can you tell us about the arrest? where was he located? was there an incident there? was he injured? did he say anything about what led up to this, what happened, and why he kept going? >> there's about five questions in that one question. so i will do my best to try to answer that. we can tell you that the investigation does not indicate there's any type of domestic or national type of terrorism. we can tell you there was some type of disturbance that we suspect was between the suspect and another individual or individuals at a different location just prior to the incident. shortly after this tragedy occurred, officers immediately identified the suspect vehicle and shortly after that, they apprehended the suspect. the suspect had no injuries.
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and then after he was detained, he was taken into our custody. >> reporter: did he say anything about why -- >> that's still ongoing. and this is a fluid investigation. what we do not want to do is jeopardize the integrity of this investigation at any point. right now our focus, the waukesha police department's focus, the city of waukesha's focus, is the families, the victims, and due process, right, because that's important. >> is this for the chief? go ahead. >> reporter: [ inaudible ] domestic situation, there may have been a knife involved, [ inaudible ] in the parade? >> we have no information that brooks knew anybody in the parade. but i will say this.
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we weren't even able to respond to that domestic call before it actually -- so we couldn't even investigate it. so was there an initial complaint of a knife being involved? yes. do we know if there actually was one there? we don't know, because we didn't even make it there. we ended up immediately responding to the crisis. >> reporter: there's been a lot of confusion about just how this person got to the parade, questions about barricade and that kind of thing. is there anything in the investigation about why [ inaudible ] crowds? >> i'll tell you this. we actually had a squad and barricades up. and he drove right through the barricades and the officers. when the officer tried to engage and stop the threat, he still continued through the crowd. >> reporter: chief, what was the -- >> channel 4 next. be mindful of the rules.
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[ inaudible question ] >> give me a moment. >> reporter: i'll come back to you. nicky, go ahead. who is this for? >> reporter: [ inaudible ]. >> the parade route where the vehicle entered was the area of hartwell and mainstream and the end of the parade route, veterans park, main and maple, main and wisconsin avenue. back to 4. >> i'm going to repeat the names. again, i apologize for getting emotional about it. >> chief, we're going to put it on the release, we'll put it on the press release, we'll post it on the release so it will be
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posted for all outlets. >> reporter: i have a question for chief howard. chief, what did the first responders see, [ inaudible ]? >> it was just -- i guess for lack of a better -- just carnage, likening it to a war zone. there were adults, children that were injured. some of our first responders were there with their families, they left their families to treat people, helped with incident command, helped transport, along with many other medical personnel and people that were there. but i guess what stands out in my mind from our conversations is, we do have people who have military backgrounds and likened it to a war zone. >> i'll get two more questions. back right there, the gentleman with your hand up, your agency and who would you like the question to. >> reporter: abc news, chief thompson, please. chief, the allegations that he may have tried to run over his
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girlfriend in the crash or some other person -- >> my focus, our focus right now is this incident. this tragic incident is what we're focused on. and the families and the victims of this incident. thank you. >> reporter: for cnn, chief, talk to us about those families who are grieving that you know. what memories do you have? >> i'll talk about the incident itself and being there, and seeing -- i'll give you one. as i'm watching officers and fire personnel triaging and taking victims, putting them in ambulances and putting them in squad cars, i have a nurse who walks up to me and says, my mother was injured, can we get
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her help. sure enough, we helped her get her mother into a vehicle and we escorted her, the vehicle, out of the scene safely. this is for the family, i'm going to ask respect for the families. this is a very tragic incident. again, it's so fluid. and i'm going. >> we're going to stop the questions right there, like i said earlier. we will put a press release out here shortly, probably within the next 60 minutes. it's going to identify the links, it's going to identify some of the phone numbers that people can reach out to. at this time we do not have a followup press conference at this time. everything will be done via press releases. if there is a press conference, we will give everybody, all of our affiliates, ample amount of time to come back to the city hall. thank you very much. >> thank you for being with us. i'm katy tur.
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this is just such a hard story to cover. we learned quite a bit in that press briefing. let me get you quickly up to speed if you're just joining us. they did release the names and the ages of the five people who lost their lives in waukesha. a 79-year-old woman, virginia sorenson. a 71-year-old, leanna owens. a 52-year-old, tamara durant. an 81-year-old named wilhelm haspel. they said 48 others were injured. and among them, many children. the children's hospital of wisconsin says there are 18 children in the hospital right now, ages 3 to 16. three sets of siblings. and in the pediatric icu there are six critical. they also now have named a suspect. his name is daniel thompson -- i'm sorry, that's the police chief. the suspect is darrell brooks, a 39-year-old man.
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he was a person of interest. they have now named him a suspect. we are going to get to more on him. let's bring in nbc news investigations correspondent tom winter and former director of public safety and former chief of police in dekalb county, georgia, and nbc law enforcement analyst, cedric alexander. that mug shot we showed you of darrell brooks is old. it's from a prior incident. and tom, that's what i want to get to. he had a very recent criminal record. >> right, an extensive one as well. he was a convicted felon going back 20 years. this is somebody who has a criminal record in over three states. katy, when you look at his record, specifically the most recent arrest, disturbing allegations contained within court papers. november 2nd, according to the files, he was involved in a domestic incident with the woman who is the mother of a child of his where he allegedly punched her in the face and also allegedly ran over her in a gas station parking lot in milwaukee county, wisconsin. police officers say according to
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the charging documents, that when they arrived they found that the woman had dried blood on her face as well as a swollen lip and on her pants leg they could still see the tire marks. so that was just less than three weeks ago. the picture that you saw was a picture that we obtained through a lawful public records request tied to that incident. so that's not a picture that was taken last night. the police chief, daniel thompson, says they intend to charge him with five counts of homicide. it was difficult to hear whether it was intentional or unintentional homicide. they said he is the only actor in this incident. the police fired shots at the car but they believed the threat was too grave for them to continue firing. but, you know, another arrest just within the last two years, the same sheriff's department, i should say same district attorney in wisconsin county, back in july of 2020, where he
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allegedly was in possession of a firearm, a loaded 9 millimeter barrett that as well as methamphetamine and was involved in a dispute with family members. this is somebody who has, by all accounts and charging documents, a violent past. >> and there was all indication he was fleeing the scene of another incident when this happened. the d.a.'s office is looking into why this man's bail was set so low for the incident you were talking about at the gas station with his girlfriend. >> that's exactly right. apparently he was involved in a domestic disturbance yesterday perhaps involving a knife, that's what police were initially alerted to. he fled that scene, and according to this press conference and to police officials there, they didn't even get a chance to get to that disturbance when the found out he was starting to go through this christmas parade. they said they were not pursuing him at that time, so they assert they were not in pursuit, that he was fleeing on his own, went into this parade and proceeded to run over these people.
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that's at least what they're going to be charging him with. that's as we reported earlier. now the notion that that was tied also to a domestic incident. as far as what you referenced, which is his bail on the november domestic violence incident that occurred on november 2nd, the milwaukee county district attorney in a statement this afternoon acknowledged they asked for only a $1,000 cash bail for the november 2nd domestic assault. they called that, quote, inappropriately low. they said they are going to look into why that bail was so low. and obviously with him being out on bail, we had quite a tragedy yesterday. >> cedric, when i hear tom speak about this, and he speaks about the bail and the d.a. looking into it, it feels like the community there, law enforcement there, are thinking, what did we do, how could we have prevented this. it seems like it could have been a preventible scenario, even when it comes down to the
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barricades. i know it's waukesha, it's not new york city, and the threat level might not seem as high, but barricades for a small parade, at least here in new york, for any parade, any event, are usually cars or large vehicles filled with sand. is this something that's going to be reassessed in the future now, how you barricade a place that's full of pedestrians or onlookers? >> well, i think there are number of things, katy, that will have to be reassessed here. one is their judicial system there in their county. that someone with such a violent history was even back out on the streets, that's one of the main questions law enforcement is going to ask, and people who live in that community as well. in terms of the parade itself, certainly new precautions have taken place over the last number of years, considering a history of both international and domestic terrorism in this country. however, this is a small town usa, a community where people
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know each other. this is a community where i'm quite sure they have the tradition of this parade every year. and the thought of going any way beyond what they've been doing in the past, they probably did not give much consideration to. but here's the thing. i don't care right now whether they had barricades up or not. this was tragic. this was horrific. this should not have happened in that community. and it saddens us across this nation to witness and hear about all these children and elderly people and people in general who are now being hospitalized more have lost their lives. the protocols for their security, i'm quite sure they're going to go back and look at. but where i'm going to hang my hat is raising this real question, the question that's being raised in a lot of cities across america, how these violent offenders are getting back onto the streets in america and creating further chaos. >> cedric, what do you make of that $1,000 bail for that recent
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incident that tom was describing? what do you make of it being so low? >> well, it's unbelievably low. in addition to that, there are states across the country where we're seeing bail reform that's not working for the benefit of the community at large. so i think we've got to revisit this. and certainly there are certain states and communities that need to revisit this whole bail reform. but more importantly, equally importantly, is that violent offenders in this country, a close look, a hard look by judges. they need to make a determination whether these people need to be put back on the street or not, because what we're seeing in violence that is escalating to this day in virtually every city in this country, we're seeing repeat offenders over and over and over again. we're not talking about shoplifters here. we're talking about violent offenders. >> you know, the police chief made a point to say that this
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was a massive tragedy, it should not have happened. but he pointed out that people in the crowd rushed to help. i want to talk to one of those people now. with me is alan kind, a local middle school teacher who saw this happen and rushed to help the kids who were injured. alan, thank you for being with us. just having you on camera with me gives me goosebumps, knowing what you experienced yesterday. tell us about it. >> first of all, thank you for having me and i would like to begin by just expressing condolences to all the victims who were involved. so to answer your question, i was standing with my family along the parade route when through my peripheral vision i noticed a car, red suv, swerving from the middle of the road to my side of the street. and my initial reaction was that it was possibly somebody
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experiencing a medical emergency. and then shortly thereafter, a second or two later, i saw the first victim grazed by the car. it wasn't a direct hit. i believe the very front right fender of the vehicle made contact with the person. once again, a glancing blow. once again, i was still under the impression that this was a complete accident but a second or two later, the vehicle, it turned from the side of the road back into the center of the road where more people were struck. and at that point in time, my thoughts immediately went to the understanding or belief that this was an intentional act. shortly thereafter, i ran out to the street. i made an initial assessment. when i saw one person laying on the ground, their injuries
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appeared to be relatively minor. i ran to another person, a young teenaged boy who had a significant amount of blood coming from his nose and mouth. i wanted to be there to provide as much support as i possibly could, and i know what i did was minimal, but i just put my hands under the boy's head and i didn't -- as silly as it sounds -- as silly as it sounds, i just didn't want his head to be resting on the asphalt. so i encouraged him to turn to his side. i didn't want him to choke on his own blood. he was able to do that. he was not talking to me but he did gesture that the pain that he was experiencing was coming from his abdomen area. i believe he was one of the kids who was actually run over by the vehicle.
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>> it is so hard to just hear that, let alone see that and be the one helping. i'm sure you saw some of that news conference with the chief, and i'm sure you heard a little bit about the man who is now the suspect, darrell brooks, a 39-year-old, and the criminal record he had. i'm curious what your reaction is. >> i think i was just as stunned as you probably were to realize the very low bail, fine that was assessed to him. it just seemed shockingly low. >> are you going to be comfortable going to another parade? i mean, what do you want to see happen in your town after this? >> it's so interesting that you ask that question, because
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literally my family and friends last evening were discussing that we will probably never go to a parade again. i just can't -- i can't imagine putting my family in harms way. i can't do it. >> how is your family? you were there with all of them? >> i was. my boys are actually holding up very well. i'm not sure really how much they even internalize. they saw kids laying on the street. but they weren't nearly as close as i. they seemed to be doing all right, fine. but, i mean, it may be days or weeks before they fully process what's going on. so for right now, they seem to be doing okay.
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>> allen, i'm so sorry for what you experienced. i'm happy you were there to help. but this is something nobody should experience and it seems like this is somebody that should not have been free, at least on bail like that. a lot of things that could have been done differently to prevent this. i'm so sorry for everything. and thank you so much for coming on and telling us about it so we know. allen kind, thank you, sir. >> thank you. >> sorry for cutting you off. we're going to take a quick break. we'll be right back. d customized car insurance from liberty mutual so they only pay for what they need. woooooooooooooo... we are not getting you a helicopter. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪
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welcome back. let's go back to georgia where the closing arguments in the trial against the three men accused of killing ahmaud arbery. what we had missed is one of the
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attorneys, kevin goff, attorney for william bryan, who had called for a mistrial because of black pastors in the courtroom, got up again, again called for a mistrial, this time citing black panthers who are outside. let's listen. >> may need medical attention, may be in a coma. >> okay. with that, we're in recess for about ten minutes. >> all right. so they're going to go into a ten-minute break. i'm sorry, i don't know what he was talking about when he said somebody was going to go into a coma, but there is a lot to get to when it comes to this case. so joining me now is nbc news correspondent cal perry from brunswick, georgia, and former brooklyn prosecutor and civil rights attorney charles coleman. cal, you've been watching this, as we took a break to go to wisconsin. can you bring us up to speed on what we've missed?
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>> absolutely. and just in the last couple of minutes, we were watching kevin goff, the third defense attorney, raise some concerns about what's happening outside the court, mentioning the black panther party is here. it's true, they are here, a small number of people who are peacefully protesting. this is nothing new for attorney goff, this is the one who has been saying fairly outrageous things, trying to get his client off. we heard first from the prosecution this morning, taking care, i thought, to determine and define the terms that the jury is going to be sent home with, specifically citizens arrest. the prosecution is saying a citizens arrest can only be made if you witness the felony taking place. now, these are going to be the jury instructions that are sent home. we heard from a defense attorney just a bit later who said no, in fact a citizens arrest can be carried out if there is just the sort of suspicion that there has been a crime. that is the delineation that these two different sides are trying to make. the prosecution, again, trying
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to paint that picture that this was an unwarranted, unprovoked attack on an innocent and unarmed african american. the defense is trying to go out of their way by creating a history, a pattern of behavior, as they would say, by ahmaud arbery, that he was sort of seen breaking the law a number of times in the past and there was a group of individuals trying to protect their neighborhood. those are the two narratives, katy, we're seeing here on what could be the final day of this trial, katy. >> charles, it seems like, and cal was just alluding to this, it seems like what the defense is doing is trying to say to the jury, obviously ahmaud arbery is a criminal, obviously he was there to commit a crime, we didn't need to see it, it was just obvious because he was already trespassing. cal laid out the law, as the judge read it out, which is that you need to witness the crime in order for it to be a citizens arrest. is trespassing alone enough of an argument to say we witnessed a crime and therefore we're
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allowed to have a citizens arrest? >> first of all, katy, the answer is no. and secondly, even if it were, it's important to understand that every defendant in this case could not even allege that because each of them did not see with their own eyes. it is impossible for you to effect a citizens arrest where you are relying on information that you could not get firsthand. so you did not observe these things. and what the defense is essentially trying to do is, it's moved its strategy from trying to defend this case along the lines of self-defense with this bogus citizens arrest argument, which i think the prosecution has done a fantastic job of dismantling. and the defense is trying to excuse white vigilanteism in this space around ahmaud arbery by trying to string together this poorly constructed narrative of him doing these illegal acts that they did not themselves even witness. so that's where we are in this case. it will be interesting to see how it plays out. >> so charles, kevin goff, the
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lawyer who wants a mistrial for black pastors and black panthers now outside, has repeatedly brought race into this. it hasn't been in front of the jury but he's repeatedly brought race into the trial, when the judge has been there. the prosecution, though, is not directly bringing race into this trial. why do you think that is? >> katy, you know, i actually thought that that was a mistake for the prosecution, not to deal with the issue of race, because i have long said that i believe that race in this case is the elephant in the room, and it needs to be addressed. and i don't necessarily know that the prosecution was willing to go there. i think that in large part, the prosecution may have been relying on the fact that it's sort of obvious and it doesn't need to be said. i would disagree with that strategy. but i also understand that it is a sensitive issue in a delicate space, that space being georgia
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and being mindful of the community, and not necessarily wanting to push that jury further than their comfort zone would allow in terms of considering what the facts of this race are by bringing up race. again, as a prosecutor in this case, i would have wanted to see them do that, i would have preferred that they did. but ultimately did, but ultimately i think they may have erred on the side of being conservative and hoping that race may be not as much as we know that it does become a factor in the conversation. >> do you think the defense will be able to narrow it down, charles, to just the one incident, the few seconds or few minutes where travis mcmichael is out of the car and he's confronting or he's in the altercation with ahmaud arbery. are they going to be able to narrow it down to the defense, or will the jury continue to see
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it in its totality, that they opinion to pursue him over and over again, even though he was running away? >> it's going to be very difficult for the defense to escape the narrative, the whole narrative, around this bogus citizens arrest argument about the fact they literally chased ahmaud arbery down and cornered him before the time you're talking about, that split-second encounter. it would take a masterful, and what i say masterful, it would take a near unparalleled level of storytelling in order to get the jury to focus solely on that after what i thought was a very effective case by the prosecution, very effective crosby the prosecution, and at the end of the day, very effective summation of the prosecution. to be able to then shift the focus that dramatically is going to be an extremely difficult task, and i don't know that they'll be able to do it. >> quickly, we have a jury that the majority is white, there is one black person on the jury. i know in wisconsin they had to
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have everybody for every charge. what is the burden for the jury here in terms of being able to find these men guilty or not guilty? >> well, it's really beyond a reasonable doubt for everyone, beyond every charge. the prosecution has to meet its burden in that regard. when you start talking about each of the individuals, there are different actors, so they're charged -- the facts are going to play out in different ways. i think that there is a lot that's riding on bryan's conviction in terms of him and the evidence that came out and what was presented. i also think in terms of michael, it got done depending on what actions they took. at the end of the day, it's all going to be beyond a reasonable doubt. >> charles coleman, cal perry, thank you very much for bringing us up to date on that.
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covid and inflation, just two of the challenges facing jerome powell as he is renominated to lead the federal reserve. lead the federal reserve.
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president biden renominated jerome powell for a second term as chairman of the federal reserve. >> some will no doubt question why i'm renominating jay when he was a choice of a republican predecessor. why am i not picking a democrat? why am i not picking fresh blood or taking the fed in a different direction? put directly, at this moment of both enormous potential and enormous uncertainty for our economy, we need stability and independence at the federal reserve. >> powell has held the post since 2018. for months it seemed like biden might choose fred brainerd to
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replace him, but he cited his steady leadership through the economic uncertainty of the pandemic. with me now is nbc news white house correspondent mike memoli. the president justifying this move understanding that some might question it because he was nominated by a republican, but he said he needs to keep things going as they are. >> reporter: yeah, and katy, some of those questioning this decision are members of the president's own party. progressives, at least a number of them, hoped he would go in a different direction. stability is really the operative word from the white house today. we heard it from the president there. the president really praising powell for decisions he made as fed chairman through the ongoing pandemic to try to stabilize the federal sector. it's also jerome powell staying in that role who will now face very difficult decisions about how to unwind those decisions especially as it relates to interest rates and when those might be increased. there are record lows near zero at this stage.
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the president making a point of saying that he trusts powell to do that, to oversee that, but also announcing this today noted that jerome powell under president trump faced some significant interference, at least attempted interference, and powell was able to withstand that and maintain the integrity of the fed. we should also note that the decision the president made in elevating lloyd brainerd to be vice chair for monetary policy is somewhat of a surprise. there were some that expected, if he didn't make her vice chair, would make her vice chair for oversight. that might be a role he points to for progressives that he can have a real impact in achieving some of their goals here for the fed. >> mike memoli, thank you very much. that's going to do it for me today. hallie jackson picks up our coverage next. r coverage next. ♪ ♪
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as we come on the air here on "nbc reports," we are watching what's happening in the courtroom in brunswick, georgia. the three men on trial for killing ahmaud arbery may, in a matter of hours or days, know if they're heading to prison or not. that's because the trial you're watching now is about to be in the final phase of arguments before the jury deliberates. plus the update coming in just the last hour from wisconsin. multiple homicide charges now announced against the suspect in that


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