tv Hallie Jackson Reports MSNBC November 22, 2021 12:00pm-1:01pm PST
as we come on the air here on "nbc reports," we are watching what's happening in the courtroom in brunswick, georgia. the three men on trial for killing ahmaud arbery may, in a matter of hours or days, know if they're heading to prison or not. that's because the trial you're watching now is about to be in the final phase of arguments before the jury deliberates. plus the update coming in just the last hour from wisconsin. multiple homicide charges now
announced against the suspect in that deadly christmas parade incident. back here in washington, more bipartisan praise and more bipartisan outrage for this man. why the president's pick for the fed chair is getting a thumbs up from mitch mcconnell and a big thumbs down from warren. we have a new report on how much of a makeover is coming. democrats hoping for paid leave may be disappointed. let's start with the michael bryan trial. sam brock is covering that in georgia. i'm also joined by our legal analyst, federal and state prosecutor. sam, let's start with you. we're on a bit of a break. we expect courts to pick back up any minute. we thought it would happen five or six minutes ago. both sides are trying to make their final case to the jury here of where this thing goes next.
>> reporter: so let's talk timeline, hallie. we are now in the third part of a five-part segment for closing arguments. it started with prosecution, then for each of the three defendants facing nine counts, those attorneys get to make their closing arguments and then there is a rebuttal. there's two more left and they're about an hour each. we should be wrapped today by 5:00 and it's entirely possible the jury could be deliberating starting tomorrow, which will really be up to the judge, is my understanding, whether they want to begin deliberations tomorrow or extend things after the thanksgiving break and pick up after that. this is nothing new we're hearing, but the prosecution really drilling down on the idea that ahmaud arbery was unarmed, he didn't have an id on him much less a gun. they're not exactly observing him committing a crime, but it was pointed out from a neighbor that arbery was running down the street in their community, and they felt like there was a neighborhoodwide crime spree going on. they felt it was their duty,
talking about citizen groups and neighbor groups, they were protecting and responding accordingly. they didn't actually bring any violence until they tried to address arbery a couple times, he ran away, then he said he had to use self-defense. the prosecution said that's not a viable argument in this case. you can't instigate someone and then turn around and commit some sort of violence and claim self-defense that doesn't apply. here's some of the exchanges we watched today between the prosecution and the defense attorneys. >> you can't create the situation and then go, i was defending myself. this is not a citizen's arrest. they never said it. none of the defendants saw mr. arbery commit any crime that day. >> don't be fooled by this word "arrest." you don't have to announce, you're under arrest. he told you why he raised the gun, because he was afraid they
would be on him in seconds, and the gun was exactly what he hoped it would be, it deterred him. >> reporter: here's the interesting thing, hallie, about citizen's arrest. in the state of georgia it was actually repealed earlier this year by the legislature, by the governor. a civil war era law that still requires observing someone committing a crime. that is now off the books. they called it antiquated, but it would still meet the requirement, if it were intact, of seeing a crime being committed. in this case all we know about ahmaud arbery is he was walking through a home that was under construction. he is caught on surveillance video doing that, but there is no evidence that he committed any other kind of crime. here we are right now, this is a 25-year-old man who has lost his life, and who was, according to the prosecution, running and exercising in a neighborhood. even if he had committed a crime, what right do the three defendants in this case have to pursue him to the point where he
was killed? the defense in this case said it was self-defense. mcmichael was defending this neighborhood and he had to raise his gun as a deescalating technique, is how it was described in court, and then that transpired. >> sam brock there in new york. i'm going to take you back live to the courtroom fort rest of closing arguments as sam has described. let's listen in live. >> he's given several different statements. he's provided the now famous video that you've seen so many times and probably will again before we're done. he provided his cell phone multiple times. he signed all kinds of consent forms. he gives them access to his truck. he gives them the night owl videos from his house, the videos that had been overlooked in the canvassing of the neighborhood, because he was down at the police station. he gives them his social media. he gives them his facebook. ladies and gentlemen, without roddy bryan, there is no case.
you will have to decide what justice looks like between the mcmichaels and mr. arbery, between the mcmichaels and the arbery family. but the reason that you can do so, the reason that we can have this trial is because of roddy bryan. roddy's decision to cooperate with law enforcement, to help them discover the truth about the events of february 23rd, 2020, is not the product of slick lawyering. roddy bryan had no lawyer on the side of the road in the minutes after ahmaud arbery was shot. it was not some lawyer, it was roddy bryan without any lawyer, without any help, without any assistance making that decision on his own. roddy bryan made the choice.
roddy bryan decided to invite officer minchu to sit with him in his truck, even before roddy bryan has a chance to look at the video himself. all this again without a lawyer. these actions, ladies and gentlemen, demonstrate good faith. his conduct negatives any inference of criminal intent. who is roddy bryan? roddy never served his country like travis mcmichael. roddy never served his community like greg mcmichael. roddy is a quiet man. roddy prepares small engines at the local hardware store. roddy knows most of the english language, or so he believes. roddy bryan keeps to himself. his neighbors don't really even know who he is, even though he's lived in the neighborhood for three years.
roddy is not boastful or a braggart. he is not loud or boisterous. he is not an attention seeker. roddy tries to avoid bad language, not always successfully. roddy is respectful. he's an ordinary guy, a regular guy. roddy bryan is no vigilante. there is no evidence of that. roddy isn't running around satilla shores with guns openly carried in broad daylight. he didn't even bother to report the theft of his own trailer. after all, it's just stuff. that's what insurance is for. the amish have a saying what you take into your hands, you take into your heart. roddy bryan grabbed his cell phone. that's not intended as a comment upon anyone else, but that's just who roddy is. what else does the evidence tell
us about roddy bryan? is roddy bryan the smartest guy in the room? is he like some kind of rocket scientist? in these interviews mr. bryan gives to the police, is there some clever word play, like mr. bryan is smarter than everybody else? is that what the evidence suggests in this case? the evidence suggests that roddy bryan legitimately struggles to find the right words, that roddy struggles sometimes to convey the meaning, the truth behind those words. there is no evidence that he is a wordsmith, no evidence that roddy was playing word games with law enforcement officers, he simply can't find the right words. the evidence in this case shows that context is key. if you honestly seek the truth here, which is your duty as jurors, if you listen carefully, you will see that what roddy bryan means as opposed to simply hearing his actual words, it is clear that he never wished to
hit ahmaud arbery. why the prosecution felt it necessary to phrase the things the way they did in their opening statement ms. dunakowski will have to answer to you for. now we're going to try to play the exit interview from mr. lowry, specifically the most damning part of his statement where he supposedly wishes he had hit ahmaud arbery. >> you said that you had handprints on your truck from when he was trying to get into it? >> i'm pretty sure that's what he was doing. i can't say for sure, although i didn't get him a chance to get in the door, but after i angled
him off the side of the road and i kind of went past him because i didn't hit him, which i wish i would have. he got past me and i saw in my mirror he was going for the door. i saw his hands right behind the door. >> ladies and gentlemen, in the video as opposed to the officer's testimony, you can see mr. bryan's demeanor, you can see his gestures and his mannerisms, and you can see that when he says that he wished he hit mr. arbery, he said that just after he says that he didn't hit him, and he's expressing regret. because mr. arbery has died. and maybe if he hadn't gotten down where he was, he wouldn't have been shot. that is much, much different in context than to suggest that
roddy bryan wished that he had hit mr. arbery. that's a reflection of regret that mr. arbery was hurt by the mcmichaels. that's certainly not a suggestion that he bore any ill will. and how many other instances of that do we have in this case? how many other times has the district attorney's office fired cheap shots at roddy bryan? how many times had the gbi taken cheap shots at mr. bryan? in the end, you may wish to ask yourself why. now, in the defense case, and we didn't do it, we promised we wouldn't, but it's clear that mr. bryan did not wish to strike mr. arbery, that he never had any intention of hurting mr. arbery. he never said anything to the contrary. the evidence will show that he had no knowledge, no reasonable belief, that anyone out there
meant to hurt or shoot mr. arbery. if they had a secret intention or desire to do that, it could not be known to him. now, there is another excerpt that i want to play from the minchu video. only one, okay? because, again, i think it shows you mr. bryan's demeanor. it has been suggested by the state that much of what mr. bryan says later is somehow an after-the-fact rationalization of what happened that day. but when you listen to this, i think you'll see that mr. bryan -- the truth of what mr. brian was trying to convey hasn't really changed.
obviously there is a reason we all don't play more of these. >> you know, what did it look like he was trying to do? he was trying to get on this side of the car, right? what did it look like he was trying to do? >> i cut him off pretty good, now. >> he actually pulled your handle? >> i wouldn't be surprised. he was trying to get to the
handle. >> all right. nobody got this on video? >> i got it. >> you got it on video? at what point did you start videoing? >> i thought he was going to get away. to be honest with you, i probably got two videos, three videos. i don't know what i got because half the time i was trying to drive. >> it was suggested that roddy bryan made up the idea that he was trying to preserve mr. arbery's identity, that he was trying to preserve it because he thought he was going to get away. it's been suggested that's not what was going on. but yet here on the side of the road with officer minchu, roddy bryan says within minutes of the shooting that that's exactly what he was trying to do.
we have one video in this case. well, we have two, a shorter version of the one you've seen, but when mr. bryan is talking with officer minchu, he hasn't had a chance to look at his phone. he hasn't had a chance to see what he has. he thinks he has two or three videos. he thinks he's caught much more than he had. now, either you believe that roddy bryan is the smartest person in this room, that he's playing games and manipulating the police from the moment this has happened, or you know that roddy bryan had good faith from the start, that he tried as best he could to help the police. maybe it would have been better if he had been able to record more, if he knew better how to operate his phone. but the idea that somehow mr. bryan is, quote, unquote, minimizing his involvement in
this case, had he recovered as much video as he thought he had, he might have had the whole thing on video. he's giving it to the police. he's inviting officer minchu to sit with him, not with some slick cobb county lawyer, by himself. that tells you that roddy bryan is not guilty. because unless you think he's smarter than everybody else in this room, that he's smarter than all these police officers, that he's smarter than the cream of the crop, the creme de la creme of the fbi, he's just trying to find the words. to hear again all this stuff about mr. bryan about all these things that will happen, we'll come back to that later.
but when you look at the lowry interview, when you look at the minchu discussion on the side of the road, you know what the truth is here. now, if i'm out of order, irrespective of chaos, mr. bryan doesn't know what happened up the street at the english residence. he doesn't know mr. albenzy is out there, he doesn't know mr. albenzy calls 911. he assumes someone has, but he doesn't know. he doesn't know mr. albenzy is armed and just up the street. mr. bryan is not in communication with anyone prior to the shooting, not mr. albenzy, not perez, not either
mcmichael. at times he thinks he's out there alone with mr. arbery and it scares him. roddy bryan doesn't see any guns until moments before the shooting. we'll come back to that. i think if i recall correctly, testimony was, although you can see, and you will see in a moment, greg mcmichael standing in the back of the pickup truck in the moments before the shooting, mr. bryan on that day doesn't even recall gregory mcmichael being in the back of the truck. he doesn't realize gregory mcmichael is in the back of the truck until later, until afterwards. roddy bryan thinks that it takes the police several minutes to arrive on the scene when we know it was mere seconds. roddy gets so many basic facts wrong, so many key facts, is it any surprise that months later
he would struggle to recall details of what happened that day when he couldn't recall big, obvious details right at the time it happened? let me shift gears for a moment. the closing statement is sometimes referred to as closing argument. i don't want to argue with you about the evidence, first of all. there's 12 of you and only one of me and you get the last word. second, we lawyers can't remember things, frankly, sometimes the way we want them to be or the way we expected them to be. whereas you hear it as it actually comes out. so if my recollection differs from yours, i would trust your collective memory. i'm not supposed to say this, okay, we're all taught never to say this, but what we say as lawyers is not evidence. the evidence is what you heard. and if something i say doesn't ring true to you as what the evidence is, you don't have to
wait for someone else to object. i don't want you to consider something if you don't remember it as the evidence. now, before proceeding any further and before i forget, i do want to express my gratitude to mr. bryan, to the court, to my distinguished opposing counsel. as i walk through the front doors of our courthouse every day, i am reminded what an honor and absolute privilege it has been to come before you. what i'd like to do now is go back in time. i want to take you back, if you can join me, to the morning of february 23rd, 2020. it seems, at least to me, both so very far away and yet like it was yesterday, it was a time to which many of us might wish to return if only we could turn back time. ahmaud arbery is still very much alive, perhaps still asleep. some of us, like rick peraz and
diablo go to church. some may remember that bernie sanders is the frontrunner for the democratic nomination. the sports world may recall that the daytona 500 was held a week earlier down the road. donald trump was the grand marshal. the local newspaper, the brunswick news, covers school events celebrating black history month. you may recall covid-19 is still a mystery. it's a china problem. an italian problem. some guy we've never heard of, dr. anthony fauci, warns us that we should conserve the already dwindling supply of masks for first responders and for health care workers who most need them. roddy bryan isn't reading the sunday paper. roddy bryan is not in church. and he probably isn't paying much attention to the corona. roddy bryan is working on the
front porch of his home. after renting for several years, roddy and his fiancee have just purchased their home on birchard. as a mechanic for small engines, this is big for bryan and he isn't going to waste time fixing it up. if you look back, it's the world in which this event takes place. it's the world context in which we have to look at the evidence in this case. now, i think we have the first night owl video -- i call it the first night owl video, the porch video. i think we played it for you once before. here you can see roddy bryan standing on his front porch trying to repair a column. he is listening to music. the music is playing from the garage, the door is open.
we've seen that from the previous picture. you'll see in a moment his truck it out front. if you look carefully, i believe you can see his hammer on the ground behind him. and i believe other tools as well. now, we'll stop that. now we have a still photo which we're about to turn back on. the still photo. >> it's coming. >> sorry. beggars can't be choosers while i wait on ms. parton. this is the front of the bryan residence. you have to add in mr. bryan on the porch. you have to add in the pickup truck in the driveway with the lumber in the back. you have to imagine, if you will, music playing and it's probably playing loud because
his hearing is not so good. is there anything threatening or menacing about this picture? is there anything threatening or menacing about this image? or is this something we expect to see in a norman rockwell painting? we talked about driveway decisions. mr. arbery has driveway decisions that he's making this morning. i'm not going back into all that stuff with the englishes and diego perez and albert aldenzy and mr. welsh. that's all been covered, and although mr. bryan may have read about it, he doesn't recall it, at least on this day. but mr. arbery is now running down the street, running from
the english residence. he's passing house after house after house on a nice sunday afternoon. is there any evidence that mr. arbery sought help, sought assistance from anyone in that neighborhood up to this point? maybe you heard it, i didn't. but as he comes up to mr. bryan's residence, he starts coming by his house, why isn't mr. arbery asking for help? why isn't he calling out, hey, somebody call 911, there's crazy people after me? maybe that's because mr. arbery doesn't want help. now, mr. bryan spots mr. arbery out of the corner of his eye.
roddy bryan knows the joggers in the neighborhood, on his end of the neighborhood. let's be clear. it's a big neighborhood. there's four or five. ahmaud arbery isn't one of them. roddy bryan has never seen ahmaud arbery before. roddy bryan intuitively, and that's the word for it, intuitively knows the difference of someone running to something and someone running away from something. the white pickup of someone in the neighborhood drives by. roddy bryan doesn't know travis mcmichael. he would know greg, but greg is sitting in a car seat. roddy doesn't realize that's greg mcmichaels in the truck until after the tragic shooting.
>> i'm going to object to facts not in evidence. none of this came in at all in front of this jury, and we would object to anything about roddy bryan knowing about greg with anything. >> i'm pretty certain in one of the interviews we went through, he didn't realize greg mcmichael was in the truck. the jury knows what the evidence is, and their recollection controls. >> let's stick to the evidence as presented to the panel. >> thank you, your honor. at the time that mr. bryan looks out, he sees mr. arbery in the truck. he sees them side by side. he cannot -- because of the music, he really can't hear the words. i believe the testimony is he's basically reading the lips of what turns out to be travis mcmichael. he can't see mr. arbery's lips.
he can't see what, if anything, he's saying. mr. bryan has told us repeatedly that he's never heard mr. arbery say anything from the beginning to the end. so at this point, it's clear that mr. arbery does not want help from mr. bryan. it's clear that he goes and runs off. and at that point, mr. bryan has to make a decision. now, there's been some testimony. i think mr. bryan said he called after them, you got him, with what is consistent with what he's seeing on the road, but nobody else hears that that we know of. we know other witness said they didn't hear it because they testified. we're going to play a second night owl video that we didn't play previously where you see mr. bryan coming off his porch.
now, i'm going to suggest to you, and you will have to decide what the truth is here that when mr. bryan says he called out to them, did he? do you see that on either of these videos? do you see it on the third one to come? again, is mr. bryan relating what actually happened or what he thinks has happened? is mr. bryan's mind playing tricks on him? in any event, mr. arbery goes down the street. mr. bryan -- at this point we're going to go to the next night owl video. sorry, you went too quickly.
at one occasion bryan said he walked to the kitchen, another time he said he ran to the kitchen. he said he walked back out to the truck, another time he said he ran back out to the truck. we know from the video it takes 13 seconds to get to the kitchen, reach for the keys and get back to the truck. mr. bryan is walking calmly to the kitchen and walking calmly to the truck. his recollection of doing otherwise is faulty. now, we also know, as mr. bryan pulls out -- by the way, we also know that he left his rifle in the house, left a hammer on the porch and went out with his cell phone. now, here we see when mr. bryan initially pulls out, mr. bryan is pointed to the right. now, he backs up. at the very end he backs up and straightens out a bit.
whether mr. bryan said he was going to the left or the center or slightly to the left, the actual evidence in the case is consistent with him pulling straight out. again, we know from all the other things we've seen that mr. bryan's recollection simply isn't that good. mr. arbery -- mr. arbery -- mr. bryan makes for him what is a very fateful decision. he actually pulls out in the road. now, at one point he says he overshot the road. another point in the same interview with detective lowry, he says that he crept out onto the road. the state suggests that mr.
bryan either hit mr. arbery or tried to hit him and pushed him with his 5,000-pound motor vehicle. we'll come back to that in a second, but i just don't think -- i think the evidence is inconsistent with that. now, i do want to talk about the indictment for a minute. let's take a minute to review the indictment. it is what we sometimes call a kitchen sink indictment. everyone, all three defendants are charged literally with everything in the indictment, every crime set forth therein. you may find this confusing and difficult to sort through at times since the factual bases and underlying legal bases for the five murder counts are so closely intertwined with one another. however, this is perfectly acceptable. there's nothing improper about it. murder is murder. each of the remaining four counts of the indictment, aggravated assault with a shotgun, aggravated assault with a motor vehicle or motor vehicles, false imprisonment and
attempted false imprisonment actually serve as predicate felonies for the felony murder counts. in other words, this indictment does not allege any offense against any defendant other than murder and the predicate offense's former. there are a couple legal processes, i feel obligated to go through in every case. one of them is reasonable doubt. you heard several capable lawyers go through that, so i'm not going to spend a lot of time there. not belaboring the point, however, i would like you to consider the courts a principles on reasonable doubt. a reasonable doubt means just what it says. it is the doubt of a fair-minded, impartial juror honestly seeking the truth. if you are fair-minded, impartial juror honestly seeking the truth, and you've given us
every reason to think that you are, if at the end of the evidence you have a doubt, that is a doubt upon which you maya -- may acquit the department. a reasonable doubt is a doubt based on common sense. it is a doubt for which a reason can be given. if you can give a reason to doubt whether mr. bryan is guilty, then your mission is complete, and at that point you should acquit mr. bryan. now, i also often use this provision lifted from robert bolt, a man for all seasons when i talk about reasonable doubt. because i find it helpful. and let's be clear, it is not a statement of the law, it is the principle behind it. some of you may be familiar with the play in the movie, some of
you may not. william roper asks sir thomas moore, so now you give the delve -- devil the benefit of law. he says, yes, what would you do? >> cut down every law to get to the benefit. >> william roper says, yes, i cut through every one to do that. and where would you hide, roper, the roads all being flat? this law is consistent with roads, and if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, could you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? yes, i give benefit of law, sir thomas moore says, for my own safety's sake. when you apply the reasonable doubt standard, remember, that standard, that legal principle
isn't there for roddy bryan. it's not there for these other defendants. it's there for all of us, and it's a principle that we cannot forsake. the court is going to charge you, i believe, without trying to put words in its mouth, on parties to a crime. the provision that's relevant to mr. bryan in this case is the second one. to be a party to a crime, mr. bryan must intentionally help in the commission of an offense of a crime. mr. bryan cannot be a party to a crime by accident. he can only be a party to the crime intentionally.
roddy bryan didn't shoot mr. ar bery. he was only armed with a cell phone. roddy could not have caused arbery's death within the meaning of this statute. he was not the shooter, so he could not shoot mr. arbery unlawfully. roddy bryan acted in good faith on the day in question. there is no evidence whatsoever of malice. and most importantly, and i think this echoes arguments made by others. there is no evidence that roddy bryan intentionally helped
travis mcmichael murder mr. arbery. where is that evidence? that takes us back to the three questions i asked a moment ago when i first stood up. roddy bryan certainly was not aware of any intention on the part of travis mcmichael to shoot mr. arbery. i'm not saying he had that intention. you will have to decide what travis mcmichael did or did not do. but roddy bryan certainly was not aware of any such intention and certainly could not be a party to the crime of malice murder, because he can't intentionally help commit a crime he doesn't know is underway, doesn't know is contemplated. at this point we'll go back to the three questions. when did roddy bryan know travis
mcmichael brought guns with him? when did roddy bryan know travis mcmichael would shoot any guns? at that point what could roddy bryan do to stop it? are we ready? all right. i'm going to try to keep up with this. at .03 seconds into this video, mr. arbery turns around. now stop. what i want you to do is not so much look at the video at this point. listen with your ears to the noises in the background, because they tell you what's really going on, even when what you see on the screen is unclear. at .04 you'll hear roddy bryan
okay. what you can see is that mr. bryan, you hear him tap the brakes. you hear mr. bryan tap his brakes, but he's still in drive and doing about 2 miles an hour, which is about the same speed mr. arbery is moving. he's been described as chasing mr. arbery, as hunting mr. arbery, as attempting to run mr. arbery down. but what you see on the video,
and there is -- you can see mr. bryan is moving approximately 2 miles an hour, and you can see that the seat belt is not in place. now, at this point we're going to go ahead and play it to about the 17-second mark. listen for the gear shifts -- i'm sorry, it's not there yet. go ahead. you can see mr. bryan's foot is not on the gas pedal. now, you hear a motor vehicle go by. we can guess which vehicle that is. we hear it pass. in 20 seconds we're going to hear the seat belt alarm go off. at 26 seconds, you can hear the
transmission shift as mr. bryan puts his truck in park. and then two seconds later you'll hear mr. bryan buckle his seat belt. now, in about 30 seconds, and i'm going to go through this with you before we play it so you'll know what to listen for. mr. bryan utters the famous words, i'm going to keep going. and you'll notice his cell phone is down. this is where he says, i'm going to keep going. the state is suggesting to you, if i recall the opening statement and the opening portion today, that this is where mr. bryan is turning around to give chase to mr. arbery in the moments before his death. but if you listen carefully, i think you'll hear a somewhat
different story and a different truth. mr. bryan says, i'm going to keep going. he's put the car in gear. but if you watch, you'll see mr. bryan isn't going back towards mr. arbery, he's not going back toward the mcmichaels, he's going in the opposite direction and he starts at a high rate of speed. you can hear the traction of the wheels. now, you can't see yet, but he's not moving towards mr. arbery, he's moving away, and you'll see why in a moment. now, here you can see the speedometer is -- at this point he slowed back down. he's at 4 miles an hour at the 51-second mark.
shortly after this, you hear him put -- shift the transmission again. i think you'll see it's clear from the context, which is a key turn, that he's put the truck into reverse and a few minutes later he puts it back into drive. this is the key turn that you see on the reenactment video. go ahead. when i start the video up, when we start the video up -- it's a team project here. when we start the video up, listen for mr. bryan's breathing. i think when you hear his breathing, you will hear something different than the state has suggested. now, i can't tell you how to
interpret it, but what i hear is someone who is labored breathing. breathing as if he was in fear. also, around the same time, watch mr. bryan's leg, which is momentarily visible on the gas pedal and see whether you don't agree that mr. bryan's leg is literally shaking. now, he's not driving a cadillac. i'm sure if you see his leg in relation to the rest of the truck, you'll see mr. bryan at this point is shaking. let's try that again. very good. did you play the right portion
there? yes, okay. at this point, roddy bryan is looking back down holmes. what does he do here? he's pulled up his cell phone. his cell phone has been down because he was driving away. when mr. bryan said that he was going home, when he said the guy didn't want to be caught, that's all consistent with this video. now, we can see he's turned around. the question is, ladies and gentlemen, why is he turning around? technically, this is the shorter path back to his house. it may be easier to get in the driveway. you can see the bushes in the video out front. maybe. maybe he's trying to document what's going on. he said that's what he was trying to do. maybe, and that's just me going out on a limb, i'm going to
suggest to you that perhaps -- and i know i'll get reamed for this -- i would suggest to you you can call it karma, you can call it fate, i would call it divine providence. somebody is guiding mr. bryan, whether it's a thought process or not. someone is guiding mr. bryan down this street to document what's going on. just like mr. bryan is on his porch. why does he go out? he doesn't know. he gets in his car and sits out there. he doesn't even know why. he's being guided, whether that's by a god, if you believe in a god, or by some other entity, but do you really believe it's just coincidence or chance? do you really believe mr. bryan is trying to lie or deceive you at this point? we're going to go ahead and we're going to continue playing the video.
mr. bryan is traveling, as he testified, as an agent indicated in the reenacted video, he's traveling miles an hour, faster than mr. arbery. but clearly, if he was trying to hadn't him down, he would be going a lot faster. more to the point, at this point, as mr. brian comes around the dog log, what we are seeing here, i can't be sure whether this is the enhanced video or not but what we are seeing here in this courtroom w the artificial interior lighting is certainly a better view than mr. brian has actually looking through that phone with the glare and other stuff that's going to be in the car on a sunny day. anyone who has tried to look at pictures on their phone while they are driving on a day like
this understands that sometimes you can't see the phone at all. but assuming that mr. brian has 20/20 vision, and assuming that he has every bit as good a view of his phone as you see here, where is travis mcmichael? i can't see travis mcmichael in this picture. really, honestly, i can't see gragg mcmichael in this picture. and i certainly can't see any guns. now, what's our post on this one? where is this? this is at 1:15 into a minute and 43 second video plchlt brian at this point has no reason to know that the individuals in that truck have guns. all right. let's -- okay. all right. you can still -- at this point, i think you can see that there is a shadow, a silhouette, of
what travis mcmichael -- of what's travis mcmichael, but mr. brian is in his vehicle. again, even if he has a perfect view of his phone, you can't see a weapon. you can't see anybody's armed. all right. we are going to go forward again. at 1:15. now, watch. you see mr. brian's phone is focused to the right of the truck. why? because mr. brian doesn't know mr. al benzy is down on jones at 220 satilla with his phone and his gun. the mcmichaels know, bus he is giving him a hand signal, mr. arbery knows because he is running out of the house. but roddy brian doesn't know that. he is thinking that mr. arbery, like he has for the last minute
or so that he's been out there, that mr. arbery is going to go around the truck like he has gone around the trucks all the whole time to go around the trucks to satilla. go forward again. at 1:16, travis's silhouette should come into view. that's greg mcmichael. we are past that. okay. greg mcmichael in the back of the truck. we know he has a gun. i think at this point he's on the cell again to, but from mr. roddy brian's vantage point, looking through his phone as he's trying to drive on a sunny day in his truck, how can mr. brian know that greg mcmichael has gun or that he's drawn it? he can't. go ahead. go to 1:21, play it to 1:21.
all right. this is 1:21. you can see mr. car bury -- you can see how far back mr. brian is. and you can see mr. arbery going to the left momentarily. and way over here -- i promise not to touch the screen. this little fuzzy black thing here, this silhouette, is travis mcmichael. where on this video -- putting aside the fact that mr. brian is not going to have as good a view driving on a sunny day in his car, from this video alone, where is mr. travis mcmichael's shotgun? roddy brian can't see any weapon. he has no reason to know that these men are armed. and at this point, there is 20 seconds left in this video.
we are just going to go ahead and play it. and you tell me in your mind, because you can't tell me -- figure out when roddy brian can see travis mcmichael's shotgun. roddy is looking the wrong way. he's looking to the right, expecting mr. arbery to run off. wow. we are now -- where are we on the time stamp? we are now at 1:28. roddy brian has never seen -- and i don't care what is in any -- statement. we know looking at this video, roddy brian has never seen the shotgun until after it has been discharged the first time. that's not an opinion. that's fact. you are looking at it. you just never looked at it from this perspective before. let's go ahead and play the rest of it.
[ gunshots ] that's it. now, again -- oh, i had it there. having looked at the video again, slowly, from mr. brian's perspective, when did roddy brian know the mcmichaels brought guns? i would submit to you that mr. brian doesn't know that there is a gun until it goes off. not because it wasn't there. but you see what mr. brian is seeing. when did roddy brian know travis would shoot mr. arbery? i would submit to you he can't
know until mr. arbery is actually shot. and at that point, what could roddy brian do to stop this tragic shooting? the state has thrown out all kinds of theories. he could have honked his horn. he could have gone to the left. he could have gone to the right. he should have backed up. well, obviously, if mr. brian saw a shotgun pointing down the street if his vehicles, he probably would have at least ducked. but he doesn't do that. because roddy brian can't see the gun. and when the state tells you that he was hunting mr. arbery down, what they are trying to tell you is that he's going down the road towards them when he's going up the road away from them. and when he says he turns around, he brings the video back up. he takes the best video that we have, the only video we have of this shooting.
so when mr. brian says on the side of the road on february 23rd to officer minshew, i was trying to record what happened, i don't know what i got. i think i got two or three. he only got one. but fortunately, he got the one that you need to figure out what justice is in this case. again, it's not for roddy brian. it's not for me to say what justice is here between the mcmichaels and mr. arbery and his family. that's not our call. that's your call. again, for mr. brian, whether you call it serendipity, luck, coincidence, or the hand of god here, not once or twice has someone who keeps to themselves, who never gets involved in anybody else's business, who is almost a stranger in his own neighborhood has now gone out and gotten a video which is the
best evidence for you to look at in trying to figure out what happened here. now, it's going to come up in different contesting, but the judge is going to instruct you on the principle of abandonment. it has more than one application here, but basically, if somebody abandon as criminal enterprise, then they cannot be held -- >> you have been watching the defense lay out closing arguments there in brunswick,ia gentleman n the murder trial of the three men accused of killing ahmaud arbery. we apologize for the disturbing images you may have seen from the live court coverage. we will have more coverage and analysis of this trooid trial in today's louis later on on msnbc. but that does it for this hour of hallie jackson reports. "deadline: white house" starts right now.
♪♪ hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. it is a phenomenon that is unheard of in modern american life, a disgraced one-term expresident solidifying his grip on one of the country's two major political parties. new developments, and a wave of fresh reporting highlight how the expresident and his allies have seized near full control of the american right. the "washington post" reports that a so-called maga squad of trump loyalists folks like congressman matt gaetz what is ensnared in an alleged child sex trafficking investigation and marjorie taylor green seized the spotlight within the house gop and are leading a push to purge their party of lawmakers who dare to try to get things done for their constituents by working with democrats on things that used to be uncontroversial, things like infrastructure, or those who acknowledge the truth, the reality of january 6th that