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tv   MSNBC Reports  MSNBC  November 25, 2021 6:00am-7:00am PST

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good morning. i'm chris jansing live at msnbc news headquarters in new york. it is thursday, november 25th. happy thanksgiving. we begin this morning with relief in georgia and around the country after three men travis mcmichael, his father gregory and their neighbor william bryan were all found guilty of the murder of ahmaud arbery. they were convicted on 23 of the 27 counts against them including all nine against travis. the man who pulled the trigger. all three will spend at least the next 30 years in prison, and that's before they face federal
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hate crimes charges next year. the verdict sparking tears and hugs and a lot of emotion inside the courtroom where the families of arbery and the mcmichaels were sitting. outside, people who had been waiting months to see if the justice system would deliver finally breathing a sigh of relief. ahmaud's mother wanda cooper-jones this morning with her reaction to the verdict. >> when i heard the judge read the charges, and immediately after every charge he said the first guilty, i said to myself, we finally got justice for ahmaud. we finally got this. and i was very, very thankful. very excited. i mean, i was just -- really no words to really explain all of the emotions that i was going through at too time. >> i want to bring in nbc's cal perry, following this case from brunswick, georgia. katie phang served as a
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prosecutor in florida and the also a criminal defense attorney joins us. good to see all of you. happy thanksgiving. cal, give us a sense what the community feels like this morning? >> reporter: listen, you used the word "relief." that's definitely what they're feeling. a long time coming and the words of ahmaud arbery's father, in the courts, of course, when that first guilty verdict was read, let out an audible scream, escorted out and not before saying, a long time coming. definitely it was. this case likely wouldn't have seen even the inside of a courtroom had it not been for that video that roddie bryan filmed. roddie bryan of course guilty of six of the nine charges. that's the video we saw yesterday as faith leaders and supporters of the family came out to speak. grateful to the jury. convicting on almost all counts. a great deal of mistrust in this community when it comes to
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authorities. this community lived and relived that unfortunate day through this trial. a day and the prosecution made it clear, in which the case was mishandled in many ways. prosecutors turned down the case. the assistant district attorney from cobb count hi to come in and she said it the jury, even the pick-up trucks that chased ahmaud arbery down the street were not impounded. never a real crime scene. the community i would think settled today, but still questions to answer. you mentioned the federal hate crime charges. likely we'll see a trial begin in february for that. all of the while hanging over the heads of these three men now, the sentences. no word when we'll have sentencing. the judge saying shortly or soon. >> pick up on a couple things just said. what's your take how the verdict tees up the next trial when these men will face those it federal hate crime charges? >> good morning, chris, and happy thanksgiving. >> thank you. >> yeah. you know the evidence elicited during the course of this trial is obviously fair game for federal prosecutors, but it's a
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very different case. it involves a charge of kidnapping and a charge of hate crime. the kidnapping being the underlying offense to the hate crime, and the hate crime, of course, being the idea ahmaud arbery was deprived of his rights and liberties to use a public road when he was chased down and lynched. that charge and that federal case, the indictment, is critical here, because in this case, we did not see a hate crime. there was no hate crime statute in georgia when ahmaud arbery was murdered. so the federal case is all about that racially motivated crime. the idea that this was all fueled by racism. based on the color of his skin. the feds will pick up on this. i don't think they're going to back up -- fed, never a plan b. of course, i think, you know, it will be interesting to see what happens in that case. there's no double jeopardy.
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these are two separate sovereigns that can absolutely prosecute for the same offense. >> so, katie, pick it up there and ask you to put your prosecutor hat on and how this will look and sound different this federal trial than the one we just saw? >> well, as sarah mentioned, right? a focus actually on a racial component, and that was a key strategy in the underlying case that just went to trial and that we just secured our guilty verdicts for. right? the prosecutor did not make this case about race. and strategically that makes sense, because you had an almost all-white jury listening to the facts and evidence in this case, but it also was an important strategy, because as a prosecutor, linda dunikoski wanted to basically tell the jury that could have been you. she couldn't do it because of the golden rule. which is you cannot ask a jury to put themselves in the shoes of the victim, ahmaud arbery, or eveble in the shoes of the defendants. right? she kind of wanted to say and send a message to the jury, you
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can mind your own business. jogging down the street. it shouldn't make a difference who you are. color, gender, whatever. you should have your liberties. that's why she harped on that in the rebuttal close saying the liberties were violated on ahmaud arbery, and any one of us could have our liberties violated by these men. i want to briefly note, chris, about what cal said, which is really important as well. the first prosecutor had had this case jurisdictionally has been indicted. going to trial in january. before the defendants even see their federal charges. because she's been charged with a felony an misdemeanor more obstructing justice and violating her public duty as a pub live servant. the second prosecutor, he actually spoke to the first prosecutor and recused himself. it took cobb county to do to. gregory mcmichael, called the first prosecutor and called her and asked her for help. if that doesn't tell you ow
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incestuous and tight knit some of these law authorities can be, i don't think what could. a wonderful verdict but american has a collective sigh of relief. the right verdict based on the facts, the evidence and the law. >> sarah, looking at this trial, also the kyle rittenhouse trial, did the two verdicts tell us something about how the law defines self-defense and under what circumstances it could be a viable defense? >> yeah. i mean, the laws are almost identical in wisconsin and georgia. it's -- it's a rather low bar to claim self-defense, because there's no duty to retreat before you go to deadly force, but we saw a big difference here in that, again, both trials had videos. which, to me, is always the best evidence. we didn't have ahmaud arbery to tell the story. so we relied on that video without the video we wouldn't have an arrest let alone a trial and justice. the idea here is that these are
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two different cases. i thought the analysis in arbery was far easier for the jury than it was in rittenhouse. in rittenhouse you had to look at provocation before you got to the self-dwrens. here you had to look at citizen's arrest. i thought a much easier analysis. you know, again, it comes down to, were you facing an imminent threat of great bodily injury or death? did you provoke it, were you the first aggressor? and whether you used reasonable force proportionate to the threat proposed. the laws very similar. facts very different. the videos were telling. in both cases. >> yeah. prosecutor definitely made the case that if you're the aggressive you can't claim self-defense. obviously the jury agreed with that. sarah, katie, cal, to all of you, thanks for being with us on a thanksgiving morning. i hope you enjoy the rest of your day. appreciate it. now i want to bring in the reverend al sharpton. president of the national action network and host of
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"politicsnation" here on msnbc. i'm so appreciative that you decided you could make the time on your thanksgiving morning to talk to us, because i lost count of how many dozens of families like the arberys you have had to sit with, many if not most of whom did not get any measure of justice, and i know you were with this family before the rest of the country even knew about this case, before the video was released. so as you sat in the middle of the family yesterday and the guilty, guilty, guilty verdicts were read, one after another. tell us about that moment? >> you know, it was a moment i will never forget. when we had broke for the morning, of the judge saying that the jury wanted a quick lunch, i went to lunch with the father. i talked to wanda, the mother, and even though i felt the evidence was rock solid, i
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prepared them for the worst, because i've sat in courtrooms from the case in new york in '99, i mean, for decades. sean bell case, i could name the cases. trayvon martin we lived through. and saw a jury come back with unbelievable verdicts. being that i had been involved even before there was a video, nash and i got involved in the case and through attorney ben crump i did not want them to not be prepared for the worst, and as i sat there and they said, we have a verdict, and they asked the jury to come in. the jury came in and asked the defendants to stand. wanda, the mother of ahmaud, took my hand and the father sitting on the other side of me took my hand and we started praying. read the charge and the first guilty, i think that ahmaud's mother wanda breaking down
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crying. the only thing stopped me from crying, because the tears i had was that finally we've got something for one of these families, and it was the second time this year. i was there with the family of george floyd when chauvin was convicted, and now in the deep south, with 11 whites and 1 black on a jury, in a city 55% black. it was a real message. it does not mean any stretch of the imagination that we still are going to have a lot of work to do in criminal justice, but it was a turn that we badly needed, and you couldn't have had a more solid, dignified and gracious family that should have received that on thanksgiving eve. >> yeah. the gratefulness was coming through immediately after, and this morning, as ahmaud arbery's mom did a series of interviews. look, i mean, a lot was made of the fact that this was a jury that was 11 whites and 1 black.
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coming back the way they did, which almost every count was guilty. all three of these defendants are going to be spending much if not all of their lives behind bars. do you think in the end, rev, the message from the jury was, we saw this as a modern day lynching? >> i do. i think that the jury decided that there was no defense here, in order to have a defense you need an offense. and that is tantamount to a lynching. you decide, therefore, based on no life extenuating circumstance, or any threat to you, to lynch this guy. to kill this guy, and i think that curb coupled with that was the defense. i've never heard the racist kind of language coming out of defense attorneys in a courtroom, in my life. i mean, one defense attorney objecting to me being in the court and then later the black
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mensis and saying i'm quoting him. no more black pastor. not even no more pastors. no more black pastors. one more defense attorney in closing arguments said that he didn't have on slacks to cover his dirty toenail. like he was a run away slave or an animal. and i think that the people in the jury said, wait a minute. we are not going to go there, and i think it was a tremendous testimony to the movement of people down through the years that kept going. white and black. and saying it's not the kind of country we want. those jurors looked past race and looked at the facts, and that's all we've asked america to do, is be like that jury. >> there is a sense of celebration, and, again, from the family and his mom in particular. he said, i am thankful on this thanksgiving that my son can now rest in peace, but you brought up the other point, which is that, if not for a leaked video,
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would we even be where we are right now? and so if you can, give us a sense, having the experience of decades, from where we ere, where we are now and where we still have to go, rev? >> i think the video made the difference. i said it was the video, and on my slow "politicsnation" on the weekend, had the parents on, before the video. i think the video made the difference. i think the video made the difference in george floyd where there was a conviction, but it doesn't always make a difference. there was a difference in the case where they never, ever got to trial. never an indictment and there was a video there. there was a video in '91 with rodney king and those guys acquitted in state court. i think where we are at is that videos give you the best shot at
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it, but it doesn't guarantee anything. and blacks shouldn't have to have a video and others don't have to have it. where we need to go is to change the laws. the problem is that the bar is what you must reach to get guilty, to get even a prosecution is too high. particularly in police-related matters. we need to change the laws. so as i go to national network today to help pass out food to the homeless, i'm thankful for the verdict. i'm elated for wanda and for marcus, the parents of ahmaud, but i still know we're going to have a voting rights bill slated and we don't have a police reform bill slated in the congress. so there's still work to do. so we can have a celebration, but we cannot put down our banners and whatever platforms we have to keep fighting. >> important message on this thanksgiving. rev, we sit right next to each other. our offices next door to each other, but haven't seen each
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other. >> correct. >> let me via television, thank you for all you do. i can't even imagine what it is the time you spend with these families and how much it means to them, especially in a case like this before anyone else seems to be paying attention, that you're there to show your support. so thank you. have a great rest of your day. we appreciate it. >> thank you. god bless. thank you. happy thanksgiving. up next, this thanksgiving day, the covid spike. cases now topping 48 million in the u.s. alone while overseas drastic crackdowns against the unvaccinated. and one of the hottest holiday items. the at home covid test. a push for more testing options next. you're watching on this thanksgiving day, msnbc. nbc.
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from zoom thanksgiving last year to millions gathering in-person this year, a lot to
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are thankful for. 60 million vaccinated and millions more rolling up sleeves for boosters. on top of that the fda could soon authorize two covid pills to treat infections. still covid case on the rise, the u.s. just pasted 48 million confirmed casesmore than 776,000 people have died. in massachusetts, the health care system is still reeling from challenges brought on by covid. now they're set to reduce non-essential elective procedures starting on monday. joining me now, nbc news medical correspondent dr. emily azar. keeping all of this in mind, what do we have to be thankful for this year compared to last year, and what do we have to be nervous about looking ahead? >> you know what? it is hard to ignore the metrics that you just mentioned. cases are up about 25% in the last two weeks. hospitalizations up about 11% in the last two weeks and that's
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certainly not the direction we want to go. what we are looking for in terms of those metrics, chris, is we want to see an uncoupling of cases and hospitalizations and deaths. if we continue to have an increased number of infections but we're not seeing increase in hospitalizations, then we can sigh a bit of relief. we are not there yet, though. but i will say this -- this thanksgiving as opposed to one year ago what do we have that we can be thankful for? we have 60% of the population who is fully vaccinated and many, many more partially vaccinated. we also have much improved therapeutics. so that we know if you are hospitalized with covid-19, you are much less likely to die than you were even one year ago. as i said, we still have quite a bit of ways to go as, know, we may discuss later on in the segment, too, always with a lens looking forward and seeing what's happening in europe right
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now. the world health organization has predicted another 700,000 deaths by march in that region at the clip that they are going right now. >> wow. let's go to europe now. i want to bring in nbc's claudia lavonia in rome. give us an overall look at the situation there. >> reporter: good morning, chris. while the situation all across europe is pretty dramatic as the doctor mentioned. there are cases, surges everywhere across europe. just think of several counties including slovakia, netherlands, czech republic. hungary, all reported record-breaking daily new cases of coronavirus in the last 24 hours alone. germany just reached 100,000 deaths. since start of the pandemic. a very important psychological threshold, of course. why this surge?
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well, the direct are general of the world health organization thinks this is due to a false sense of security, that is a consequence of the vaccination. in the sense that of course, the vaccination is still "the" most important tool against covid-19 but the same time, director of the w.h.o. makes people think they can just drop the other precautions, such as, of course, wearing masks indoors especially private places or keeping social distance. what are countries doing about this surge? where i'm in italy right now and can tell you what this country is doing. it is doing a lot better than other countries, because the vaccination rate here is a lot higher than other neighboring countries. we are at 84% of full immunity mere and same time there is, this is a country where some of the harshest restrictions. government just yesterday announced that from december 6th through january 15th, throughout the christmas and new year's holiday, of course, the access
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to places like restaurants, bars, gyms, theaters, all public places of entertainment restricted only to those either fully vaccinated or recovered recently from covid. people who are not vaccinated can no longer enter those places, even if they have, can present, they present a negative test. chris? >> looks like a beautiful day there in rome. doctor, bring it back to the u.s. lots of folks will be sharing dinner tables, and some of them may find themselves with people unvaccinated. i have been listening to our air all day yesterday. many of our medical experts saying they're actually going to test people coming into their houses. i mean, part of the problem is that tests aren't easy to come by everywhere, and if you have ten people coming and it's $20 a test, $200 is not doable for a lot of people. so the state of maryland is giving away 500,000 rapid tests for the holidays, in
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acknowledgement of that. should more states, should the federal government, be doing the same thing? >> you know, yeah. i have to say that one of "the" biggest failures on our part was the -- just the latency with which we got onboard understanding how important and effective rapid tests are, spent a lot of time talking about the pcr test at most accurate and really the rapid tests got the vaccine on this, chris. uk and other european countries make tests virtually -- virtually free if not incredibly inexpensive. i recently bought a couple rapids on amazon. a two-test pact can cost $49 and it's ridiculous and cost prohibitive. we spend our time on-air encouraging folks to do rapid tests and i encourage rapid tests. they are incredibly accurate. remember, the rapid test doesn't care our simple nik you are but
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how much virus you have. they are very good at detecting virus once you are infectious. i do like the idea and i think it's an incredibly important layer in gatherings to have people rapid test before they come into your home. especially if you're unclear about vaccination status or have vulnerable members in your household. we need to focus on this more strongly ending this year and get into the new year with delta staying with us the foreseeable future, chris. >> one of our docs said her 2-year-old niece, i think it was, tested positive. that was -- obviously, something they were able to avoid at the holidays. grandma and grandpa not handling the baby. doctor, always great to see you. claudio, and one of my favorite cities in the world. look it's like you have a great day out there's thank you so much. coming up, tom turkey is back, after a pared down show last year. the annual macy's thanksgiving day parade is marching down
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manhattan central park west right now. we'll take you live along the parade route with favorite balloons and big changes this year. you're watching msnbc. re w. but then ray went from no to know. with freestyle libre 2, now he knows his glucose levels when he needs to. and... when he wants to. so ray... can be ray. take the mystery out of your glucose levels, and lower your a1c. now you know. try it for free. visit (vo) for fourteen years, subaru and our retailers have been sharing the love with those who need it most. now you know. now subaru is the largest automotive donor to make-a-wish and meals on wheels. and the largest corporate donor to the aspca and national park foundation.
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even as we speak a favorite holiday tradition is back in full swing. the macy's thanksgiving day parade celebrating its 95th year with return to its pre-pandemic floor. look at the crowds. a few million people expected to line the streets along the 2.5 mile parade route to watch the
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likes of snoopy, and the brand new baby yoda float high above the streets. dramatic change from last year when covid made the parade just a made-for-tv event. joining me, nbc's kristen dahlgren from new york city. happy thanksgiving, my friend. what's the energy like on the ground? i was walking through around 6:30. people were already lining up. >> reporter: yeah, chris. it is so exciting, that the parade is back to its pre-pandemic form and the crowds have been here for hours. they are dozens deep now along sixth avenue and the parade hasn't even made it to us yet. excitement really building about this year's parade. back on its 2.5 mile course. down central park west, and here to sixth avenue finally ending up at macy's. last year only a block. a made-for-tv event. no crowds at pull. a lot of people excited to see
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clowns, giant balloons, floats it is big and it is back, chris. >> 800 clowns, not for people afraid of clowns obviously. >> reporter: right. >> i personally am excited to see the baby yoda balloon. what are you most excited to see today? >> reporter: you know what? got to tell you. i brought special friends with me today. margot, my daughter is cece here, to see the parade. i am most excited to just see their faces -- >> someone's hiding. >> reporter: when the big balloons come down and star belly, of course, came with us today. i just want to see their eyes light up. i grew up in this area and actually have never seen the parade in-person. >> you're kidding? >> reporter: i feel like a kid waiting. no. i don't know why. i have to talk to my mom and dad. they never brought me out, so i'm excited to see it today, too. >> first, i can't believe how big your daughter that gotten. that's not even possible. >> reporter: right.
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>> but it's a beautiful day in new york. right? that's probably part of the crowds. even this morning when i was walking in several hours ago the weather was nice. it was clear. it's not too cold. i heard somebody on the "today" show, i think the police commissioner calling it a single sock day. you didn't need to double 0 or triple up on the socks. >> reporter: right. no hats, no gloves out here. i remember years when probably why i didn't come out was because it was so bitterly cold. you didn't want to sit out here for hours. this year, you know, it is really nice out here. so it means people can get here early, could stay and wait, and -- oh. i hear sirens. it might be coming! >> i think it is. i think i need to let you go. push your way to the front of the crowd! it's great to see you, kristen. have fun today, and, you know, look for what it's worth, anybody who's never been to the parade, has an opportunity to do it, one of those things, don't
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need to go. lived in new york 20 years. it's amazing. the holiday rush more like the holiday sprint this year, because we're just hours away from the biggest retail day of the year, but this year you've heard about it. supply chain issues are complicating things. what is the right time to find the best deals. plus, what the president is doing to drive down inflation and drive up confidence. you're watching msnbc. you'.
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more. >> reporter: another avalanche on the way this thanksgiving weekend. >> i've already started. i love getting ready for the holidays. >> reporter: as retailers try to capture your spending to make up for the top 2020. >> everything we're buying this year is 75% and 25% online. >> reporter: rush for discounts comes as a clogged supply chain continues to trigger major delays on scores of gifts motivating some shoppers to get going early. on average consumers plan to spend $998 on gifts and beyond this season's down slightly from the before the pandemic in 2019. despite the rising cost of living shoppers like here in los angeles are expected to show up in droves. the same story here at the mall of america in minnesota. in fact, the national retail federations estimates 66% of shoppers nationwide will spend this holiday weekend. to here in maryland, shoppers hunting for clothes, toys, and gift cards. so much demand, shoppers should expect to see weaker than usual discounts this weekend. >> we're seeing discounts in the
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range of 5% to 35% this season. that's different from previous seasons when they've gone down as much as 10% to 30%. >> reporter: those discounts driven by supply chain issues and retailers having to pay more to get nor products on their shelves. >> retailers are struggling. popular products keeping them in stock. consumer will feel that especially shopping last minute this year. >> reporter: what should you buy and when? experts say the biggest sales on toys will happen on thanksgiving day. deepest discounts on big-ticket items like tvs as well as clothes shoes and beauty expected on black friday. look for the best price cut on electronics and travel come cyber monday. >> that is jo ling kent reporting for us. with millions of americans gearing up to get the holiday deals, learning about our economic recovery. maybe stronger than you think. incomes and consumer spending soared in october, despite a record jump in consumer prices. and weekly jobless claims
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tumbled to just 199,000 last week. that's a stunning drop. lowest number seen in more than 50 years. all of this comes as president biden tries to urge confidence in our economy with inflation still pinching americans' wallets and his approval numbers. joining me now, cnbc seniorable lift. start with weekly jobless claims. not this low since 1969. >> yes. >> put that in perspective. how encouraging is it? >> very encouraging. i caution, however, there's probably stickle anomalies in the number that could bounce back a bit next week. seasonal adjustment factors bureau of labor and sticks uses this time of year. it may overstate the decline we saw in that number and it might pop back a little bit. generally speaking, the chart shown, the trend moving in the right direction. labor market despite shortages
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and disruptions we hear about of workers is certainly moving in the right direction. >> after we got that news yesterday dow down just a little. nine points at the closing bell. why didn't markets rally? >> well, they've been rallying. dow up 16% for the year. s&p up 25% and nasdaq up 22%. a full year's worth of gains already locked in. so the markets are growing a little concerned about inflation moving at a slightly more accelerated pace than anticipated and the possibility that the federal reserve could accelerate its normalization of interest rate policy and start raising rates early as middle of next year. that's one of the reasons why the market's been a little defensive, but in some ways the recovery trade is on. we've seen a lot of stocks that are very much linked to economic growth doing better than those more defensive in nature. >> ask you about the balance scale in inflation. incomes are up. i heard the head of macy's for example, this morning saying he's paying workers more this
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year as a lot of companies are. are people making enough more to make up for inflation? >> it's about even. as you saw in the consumer spending report yesterday, the annualized rate of inflation is about a little over 4%. personal incomes up 5%. it's about even. some measures a little behind. but given all of the payment supports that were handed out over the last 18 months because of the pandemic, about $2.5 trillion in excess savings on consumer balance sheets. that allows them to spend a little more as prices rise. i would caution. there's some folks suggesting that this is a historic increase in inflation. for people my age and older, in 1970s and 1980s, we got inflation high as 13%. coming out of world war ii, as high as 20%. i still believe this will pass by middle of next we're and when the supply chain issues right themselves and producing more goods, computer chips that prevented full production of
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automobiles and appliances and the like, this will all start to ease and the won't be as big a deal next year as this year rnlgtsz one big deal this year with so many on the road. gas prices. obviously way up. joe biden just tapped into oil reserves. trying to respond to that. is that really going to make a big difference? >> well, not in the long run. tapping spr, strategic petroleum reserve, viewed as a temporary measure. what is interesting, something we've not seen in the past is that this was coordinated with other countries including china, also tapping their strategic petroleum reserves. a shot across the bow at opec constraining production and keeping prices high. again, strange here, chris. gasoline in california and other states approaching record levels. 2008 oil at $147 a barrel. prices weren't this high. there's other disruption the taking place in the gasoline market that are regionally pushing prices to record levels, and again, not necessarily
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reflective of $78 oil. >> ron, generous with your time. run to the kitchen and finish thanksgiving dinner. >> my pleasure. oh, not my job. if i cook anything it will explode or burn. >> geez! okay. best you stay at the table, just enjoying the meal. >> absolutely. >> thank you, ron. best to you and yours. coming up, the battle over president trump's white house documents ramping up over a court hearing that's next week. what the former president is now saying. you're watching msnbc. at ch. . ugh. i really should be retired by now. wish i'd invested when i had the chance... to the moon! [thud] [clunk] ugh... unbelievable. unbelievable. [ding] bogeys on your six, limu.
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>> feels to me talking a lot ar climate change as a future one a developing story this morning, former president trump pushing back on the house commit thee that's investigating january 6 telling a federal court the attempt to get the federal records could damage the presidency after the committee issued subpoenas this week to top trump allies and organizations that supported him and it's just days before a court arguments in the battle over the records from the administration. joining me now former federal prosecutor glen kirshner and carol leonnig. good to see both of you.
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happy thanksgiving. so, glen, if trump says this battle could hurt the presidency, is that an argument that carries legal weight? >> no. actually i think this battle could heal the presidency. because executive privilege, let's suspend reality for a moment, chris, and assume a former president retains a healthy dose of executive privilege. he really doesn't. because in the main the executive privilege decision resides in the current occupant of the white house, joe biden, and he's decided not to invoke executive privilege to stop the production of the documents from the national archives to the house select committee. but let's assume that trump had a healthy dose of executive privilege to assert. it would yield if what he was trying to prevent from seeing the light of day involved him and his associates trying to
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commit crimes. trying to have a president unconstitutionally retain power, trying to undermine the free and fair election of the incoming president. at the end of the day, i do think any lingering executive privilege would yield to the crime, fraud exception. but these are probably legal issues that we will have to await to play out in the future. >> this idea, carol, of holding on to power, your book details chaotic scenes from inside the trump presidency and how he was determined to do that. what do you make of the protecting the presidency argument? put it in the context of the man you covered for so many years. >> i think it's pretty clear that former president trump's efforts are to stall, run out the clock, keep the records from being seen. remember, in my reporting for
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the book president trump then only five weeks maybe, six weeks from leaving the office insisted to me and my co-author that everything about january 6 was fine. nothing was violent. capitol hill police were warmly ushering these individuals in to the capitol. of course, we all know that's false. but if former president trump insists there's nothing inappropriate about what happened january 6 then why now this colossal legal fight to block any of the records from being shared? i wholeheartedly agree with glen that executive privilege is decided best by the president in office. what's interesting about trump's argument is he's saying this is political. a party opposed to me, biden, opposed to me is trying to
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reveal confidential conversations but that doesn't matter if they're confidential. what matters is if there's national security, executive confidentiality that's harmed and biden concluded and the national archive concluded that is not harmed. only fact is gained from the records. >> you have reporting about the january 6 committee focusing on law enforcement failures among other things. what specifically are they looking at? >> after "the post" ran a deep dive series into what happened in the weeks before january 6, basically red blinking light and then red flags everywhere alerting people to exactly what domestic extremists and trump allies planned to do. attack police. storm the capitol. target specific lawmakers. all of that was in intelligence
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obtained, reviewed and assessed by the fbi and local law enforcement. what we learned is that the january 6 select committee is now going back to some of the people we quoted and interviewed in the stories because thank you learn some small and big details from the piece and trying to figure out more and more about why the fbi didn't treat all of these warnings more serious. the most significant one, chris, and actually the one that's most important to me is that there were specific warnings from people who were on domestic extremist chat groups warning the fbi, hey, there's a conversation going on right now late december in this chat group i'm a part of which people encouraging each other to bring specific weapons, specific guns and to be ready to shoot and
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kill police. that's so dramatic and the committee is trying to figure out why did the fbi not investigate this more deeply. >> who would want that intel? good questions as always you ask in the reporting. glen, we just learned that the trump executive coo matthew call mary is not likely to be charged. does that tell us anything? >> beyond the fact if that reporting is accurate he will not be charged why i don't think that takes from the investigation that is being conducted by the new york district attorney that resulted in the criminal indictment of alan weisselberg. long-time chief financial officer for the trump organization and the trump organization itself is
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criminally indicted for a 15-year criminal scheme to defraud in the first degree. that's no small potatoes coming to criminal indictments against a business, an organization. so i think it's instructive but all it tells us is this one member of the trump organization will not be indicted. we have to wait to see what comes next. >> glen, carol, two free guests i'm grateful for and thankful to take time from the holiday, thank you so much. next hour the sentencing phase for three men convicted of killing ahmaud arbery. later, what today is all about. giving thanks. we'll spend time with the native tribe whose ancestors helped the pilgrims 400 years ago. you are watching msnbc.
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