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tv   The Beat With Ari Melber  MSNBC  November 30, 2021 3:00pm-4:00pm PST

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beat" with ari melber starting right now. >> what do you call it when it's a double reference with geography, to boot? >> i don't know, ari. what do you call it? >> i think we call it instead of two chains, two refs. and i only challenge you to do three next time because you're always innovating. >> i am an innovator on the microphone. thank you, mr. melber. >> thank you. welcome, everyone, to "the beat." we do have a special show tonight. i'll tell you exactly why right now. coming up, coverage of a breakthrough that tracks some of the legal reporting we've done here, the number one trump aide in the white house during the insurrection, former chief of staff mark meadows, today folding. he will cooperate and give testimony to the house investigation of that insurrection. apparently the threat of prison works. we'll get into that tonight and why it matters. also, something we here on "the
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beat" have been working on, the special report about the supreme court and human rights. that's coming up in this hour, pretty soon. i'll explain more about it when we get there. we begin with the top story in america and much of the world, the new variant, as people are concerned and trying to gather information. the u.s. bracing for cases that have not yet been detected. dr. fauci says it will get here. the cdc, led by its chief, saying this. >> we are actively looking for the omicron variant right here in the united states. right now there is no evidence of omicron in the united states. >> the cdc has new detection stations and they're in four of the busiest international airports, jfk, newark, san francisco and atlanta. no deliberate reference there from my toss with jason, but atlanta is a big airport. omicron is presented, detected in 20 countries. officials believe it could be
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many more. that includes canada. also new details on this variant's origins. the first country to detect and announce the variant was south africa, but there is evidence showing that it was present in europe a week and a half ago, according to information coming out of the netherlands. meanwhile, new comments from moderna's ceo has many people concerned, saying the existing vaccines may have to at least be modified or adjusted to address the new variant. there's no world, i think, where the effectiveness is the same level we had with the delta variant, saying this is not going to be good. and in a moment, we will be joined in an important interview by the co-founder of moderna here on "the beat." so stay with me. meanwhile, dr. fauci saying this today. >> we don't have enough information to be talking about dire situations. there are some concerning aspects about what the molecular profile of the virus is.
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the question is, what kind of an impact and how much of an impact would it have on protection that's induced by vaccination. the only way to know that is to do what we're doing. >> so let's get right to it. dr. emmanuel is here, vice provost of global initiatives at the university of pennsylvania and nbc analyst with an eye on washington and an evolving response. doctor, how bad is it and when will we know how bad it is? >> we don't know how bad it is. it does appear to be more transmissible. whether it's more virulent, putting more people in the hospital who get the omicron variant, making more die, we don't know. it's mainly infected young people at the moment, not older people. it will probably take two to three more weeks to really figure that out. in addition, it's probably going to take that, if not more, to figure out whether the current vaccines really do -- how much
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protection they provide, and in addition, whether the oral medications that are now developed, the pfizer and the merck one, have an important effect against this variant. >> the white house is trying to do a dance. they've emphasized they'll follow the science. but they're also clearly trying to get ahead of any potential panic or other fallout and say, similar to what the doctor said, but in somewhat more sweeping terms, hey, we're going to be okay, and yet politically that's a hard line to walk because the science isn't established yet. >> the science isn't established yet. we're two to three weeks away from it being established and i think it's critical that the biden white house comes out and expresses in the strongest terms that you should absolutely be getting vaccinated, which president biden did, but also reinforcing safety protocols that were key in the early days
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of this pandemic. you should be masked, everyone should be masked, and advising states and localities to reinstitute mask mandates, which we know were eased in july and further in september. i think the biden white house should also revisit some of these travel bans that they looked to selectively apply to south african nations, knowing that the omicron variant was found 11 days before south african scientists raised the flag and alerted the world that it existed, it was found 11 days before that in europe. so addressing the travel ban so it doesn't send the signal that it's being discriminatory is going to be key as well. >> what do you think of that point, that you really have to be precise and measured when it comes to which countries detect something, indeed some of the countries following best practices might wave their hand first, which is good science and communication. it doesn't mean that they were
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literally initially first, and one could imagine the experiment if a different politician were slapping different bans out there. the white house insists they were following public health officials' early recommendations and they're willing to adjust as they go. walk us through that. >> let's make three points. first, we should remember the influenza pandemic, it started in, probably, kansas, and that's a good example of what juanita was saying. that's one of the reasons we've gotten rid of calling it by a country and instead calling it by a greek alphabet letter because the actual facts may be different than the country that pipes up. second, we should be clear about what the travel ban can and cannot do. american citizens can come back and they could easily be infected. residents can come back, they could easily be infected. this is not a tight seal the way
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the chinese have or the australians or singapore has put in place. we just haven't done that. and therefore, at best, this travel ban is going to slow by a few days, maybe a few weeks, the arrival. i'm pretty sure it's already here, the omicron is already in this country. we just haven't detected it. as i've said before, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence of the variant, so we should be clear about that. and i do think there are other things the administration can do. it can make very clear, as juanita said, we have techniques, the power to combat this. wear a mask in crowded outdoor spaces and don't go indoors in crowded spaces. wear a good mask, an n-95 mask. we could have the government send n-95 masks to all students in the country from grade one on up and get them used to wearing a very good mask or, if they
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can't have n-95, good, high-quality cloth masks that have the same kind of -- they filter out the virus as effectively. there are other things to do than just wait. and i do think the one positive, i would say, the important positive, is to educate the american public. from a public health standpoint, we want to be strong, because we want to minimize the risk if this is really highly transmissible and very virulent. on the other hand, it might turn out that it's highly transmissible but not virulent, which would be a good thing and we would have dodged a bullet and we can really open up the economy. i think that's a key message that president biden has to emphasize. getting control of this, getting more vaccinations, getting people to actually adhere to the public health measures, allows us to open the economy faster. that part of the economy that has been in the doldrums. service sector, airports,
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hotels, concerts. that's key. >> right. and that goes to what everybody wants, which is to get around the corner of these things. i want to thank you. we turn now to chairman and co-founder of moderna. this morning moderna's ceo saying about the vaccine's efficacy, it's not going to be good, at least in its current form. it is a busy time. thanks for coming back on "the beat." >> good to be here, ari. >> in your position, what do you know about the variant and what are you trying to find out? >> well, we'll know generally what the public knows in that there's a lot of work to do to get more specific information, as you just heard. we know that this variant is quite a bit more transmissible, it seems that's among the data. we don't know if it's more pathogenic or more serious. many people that have it are
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young. the country itself is young. less than 5% of the people are above 65. that is not the same demographics elsewhere. so the question will be, when the virus spreads, what impact will it have. and then what we're doing on the vaccine side is to test not only the vaccine that's already out, but a number of other approaches we've been using to see what's the best way to get the maximum protection against this variant as well. >> how do you adjust existing vaccine for something like this? we hear talk it's not like starting from zero, but it's not the same vaccine. so in layperson's terms the best we can understand it, walk us through what that entails. >> sure. ari, the vaccine, the mrna vaccine essentially puts an instruction into the body that then produces just one protein, the spike protein. and it's that protein that the variant has mutated considerably. to put it in context, the prior
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variants had two or three changes in the spike protein in the most important part of the protein we care about, that's where the antibodies bind. in this one there's 10 to 12 changes. the reason everybody is being cautious, we just don't know to what extent the 10 to 20 poses a bigger problem or it's well within the realm of our immune system to handle it. the simple thing to understand is that protein in your body creates many different antibodies that go all over the place to protect us and find the infecting agent. now a subset of those may not be able to bind, and the question is, are the rest good enough to do the job. our sense is that the rest will be good enough to do the job, but there may be a diminution has to the level. that's why we're waiting for data within the next two weeks. so let's get the data, but generally the vaccine will work, but to an attenuated extent,
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just like the other variants. the question, what do you do about it. in our case at moderna, we've tested a higher dose amount to see if we can boost even further and get even more protection. we've tested a couple of variants, the delta variant in combination to see if it gives you a broader net of protection. and if those things are not protective enough, then we'll go to an omicron specific variant that we think over the next 60 to 90 days we can have ready for deployment. i don't want to say that's the most likely outcome because it isn't. we just don't know yet the degree of protection. the thing we do know is this could be threatening and we need to be extremely vigilant. >> is it unlikely because of the amount of information you have? is that what you're implying? or is it unlikely in a more definable sense that based on what you know, you don't think we would be going towards a whole round of a whole new vaccine for everyone just to target this variant?
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>> i think it's best to be prepared for that possibility, but then not jump to it unless it's absolutely necessary. it's a little bit, in this case, like the antibiotic and resistance issue where you want to make sure you have the strongest possibilities when you absolutely need them. if we can do it with a boost or some combinations, we're going to test that first. but i can tell you that it's premature, but we have in other parts of my firm computer models that are running that begin to estimate the degree to which this might escape antibody binding. our preliminary estimates, this is not experimental or from moderna's own research, but on the modeling side, suggest that there may be a diminution of maybe 40%, 50%. but given the amount of boosting we can get, that could well be handled by the current vaccine. so we're eager to find out what the actual data is going to be. >> and finally, for people to
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understand, what is your rebuttal to, albeit a somewhat misinformed concern, one that is out there, people say, gosh, these companies are going to be making vaccines, don't they have an incentive to want to make a new one. of course you're in a regulated industry. but what is your public response to those that bring that skepticism or cynicism to the partnership role you have with many governments in trying to keep us safe? >> ari, this is a condition that is afflicting the whole planet, including my family and those around me. the notion that we would take a position that would harm people in order to have a new vaccine would be not taking into account the scope of this pandemic. over 5 million people have lost their lives. this is a mass extermination of a sort we haven't seen. our job as a private sector company is to provide options for policymakers and governments to decide how best to protect their people, which is in turn
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their job. we're doing it in the u.s., we're doing it in europe, increasingly in africa and everywhere we can get our reach to get to. and the key thing i also want to make sure the audience realizes, the job is nowhere near done, especially in countries which have not yet been vaccinated. we have to get people on the ground, training to get these vaccines into people's arms. so the job won't be done until people receive the vaccines, not when we just produce them. >> understood, and the data we have shows the vaccines, including moderna, as one of the options, have helped a lot of people and saved a lot of lives as we still go through what you and other experts have said, uncharted territory. thank you, as always, for joining us. >> thanks for having me, ari. coming up, trump's chief of staff folding. we'll explain and we're seeing new vitreal against dr. fauci. we'll have his response. when we come back, our special report which touches on something my colleague rachel
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just said. >> we don't exactly know when the court will rule, but there are pretty grave expectations for what that ruling will mean. >> we have a legal breakdown on what she's talking about. our special report is next. (phone chimes) ♪ ♪ ♪ i jump up on the stage ♪ ♪ and do my money dance ♪ ♪ i throw some money up ♪ ♪ and watch the money land ♪ ♪ i do my, i do my i do my money dance ♪ move your student loan debt to sofi - you could save with low rates and no fees. earn a $500 bonus when you refi... and get your money right. ♪ i do my money dance ♪ mm. [ clicks tongue ] i don't know. i think they look good, man. mm, smooth. uh, they are a little tight. like, too tight?
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since 1973. >> in a landmark ruling, the supreme court today legalized abortions. >> the government has no right to enter into a decision which should be made by the mother and her doctor. >> today's decision came as a shock to both anti and pro-abortionist cases. >> january 22nd, 1973, will stand out as one of the great days for freedom and free choice. >> that's freedom and free choice for women, who were the people impacted by state limits and bans on abortion. since the '70s, many other laws and practices targeting women have been ended or reformed from gender discrimination to workplace harassment as the movement gained legal and public support. in many states, however, the exception has been abortion. conservative legislators have
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tried to wide range of ways to essentially drastically limit or completely ban the functional right to choose to get an abortion. and that's the focus of our special report right now. tomorrow's case is about a mississippi law that bans virtually all abortion, though it was immediately blocked by a federal judge. the law would forbid women, more than 15 weeks pregnant, from getting any type of abortion at any point after that. more recently in texas, mostly male republicans passed a drastic and unusual scheme which literally offers bounties to random people in texas so that they might go catch women and doctors engaged in the very abortions which the supreme court has ruled are legal. 85% of the legislators voting for that state law were men. only about 15% were women. the state is pitting right wing would-be citizen vigilantes against their fellow citizens,
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deploying that power against women. and the legal history here matters, because u.s. bounties against marginalized groups have a pretty ugly history. women's rights experts, like the lawyer who sued fox news' roger stone for harassment, was telling us how this scheme echoes the pre-civil war rules offering bounties for escaped slaves. >> it's much like the ku klux klan act, catching slaves in free states after the dred scott decision. bounty hunters were allowed to steal slaves back and bring them to the south. that's exactly what is happening here. it's not complex. >> so states use their power and their funds to dial up vigilante pressure and discourage anyone from helping, in that case, escaped slaves, by finding them with what in today's dollars would be $30,000. that's a lot of money. what is legal is not always what
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proves to be right. the supreme court first upheld that fugitive slave act in the infamous dred scott was, was later overruled. it's now considered such a huge blight that every justice on the supreme court, no matter what their party, says it was wrong at the time. when you see how extreme bounties can be and how men in power are using them to target women to deny them what are currently protected constitutional rights, you can see why many people seriously liken this crackdown to the dystopian story of "the handmaid's tale", where power is used to deny women's rights and freedom and fundamental bodily autonomy. >> my name is alfred. i had another name, but it's forbidden now. we go everywhere in twos. it's supposed to be for our protection, for companionship.
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it's [ bleep ]. there are no friends here. >> across the globe, women's rights activists have dawned handmaid's white bon ets to show what they view as that becoming a type of reality in so many places and how sinister some of these crackdowns can be. there is nothing fictional about how the texas law is operating. >> texas has essentially outlawed 85% of abortion procedures. >> our phones have been a lot busier this week, mainly from texas patients. >> nothing i thought i would experience in 2021 here in the united states. >> now, the high court that hears these challenges, including tomorrow, has also changed going into this year with a republican party that has pushed for judges who oppose roe v. wade, while many also still claim in confirmation hearings under oath that they have some kind of open mind. well, this is about power.
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it's about installing judges who are likely against roe, regardless of what they say, who are likely against women's rights on the courts. and donald trump's luck of the draw, combined with mitch mcconnell's unprecedented obstruction, led to donald trump in one term picking three justices. meanwhile, nationally, the congress is led by a woman speaker and this current congress has more women than ever before. it's a complex story when you look at power and gender, but down at the state level many of these legislators, which have been passing the rules i'm telling you about, they're run by republican parties whose elected representatives are overwhelmingly men. the mississippi law the supreme court will review tomorrow, it passed with 89% of its support in the legislature from men. and by the way, in total women are only about 15% of that state's lawmakers. the alabama senate recently passed an abortion ban with no exception for rape or incest. it passed with 100% of
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supporters in the legislature from the male column. every single person that voted for that new restrictive rule was a man. only four of the 35 state senators are women, actually. in texas, as i mentioned earlier, men have outnumbered women in that legislature 30 to 1 over 200 years. so these are power dynamics that matter and gender inequities that matters and as many of the experts and evidence show, are carried out in ways that affect one gender more than the other. three other states right now are planning to copy most of the texas scheme, we expect that to happen very quickly if the supreme court green-lights it. and you should note each state legislature that is talking about doing that on the conservative side dominated by male lawmakers. in arkansas member outnumber women 3 to 1, in florida women
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are just a third of the lawmakers, in south carolina, women are only 17% of the legislature. in south dakota, women are only 28% of the lawmakers. the numbers are overwhelming. you can see them there. and they show who is making decisions for whom. this is an imbalance that technically the supreme court isn't really going to get into in tomorrow's hearings. it's something that is real and everyone can see it's happening in our politics and in power, but something that the courts, at least when it comes to pro choice laws, seem to just not even want to acknowledge. now, it's something that texas state senator wendy davis acknowledged. she led a filibuster against a different law and has discussed it. >> so many of these laws are written by men. they'll never suffer the con questions of their own actions and women confront very sad
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realities. they deserve to be voted out. >> davis, one of the lawmakers fighting who tried to change this from the inside and clearly outnumbered. this is broader than a philosophical discussion about when one defines life. this is right now about breaking constitutional supreme court precedent, despite people saying we live under the rule of law. it's about using powers to attack women's rights and choices. and a powerful group, basically passing laws against another group, working against what is about half the population of the country. i mentioned rachel briefly earlier in the program. here is a little more of what rachel maddow said about tomorrow's court case. >> we know what the purpose of this case is and we know why republicans picked the particular justices they picked to be on the supreme court.
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so it is, frankly, a matter now of preparing for a return to american women having to seek out illegal abortions, instead of having the right to get one. we don't exactly know when the court will rule, but there are pretty grave expectations for what that ruling will mean. >> where that ruling is headed and what it means begins formally before the supreme court tomorrow. mississippi republicans have lawyers who are prepared to argue tomorrow that the supreme court should not only uphold its ban, but also flat out end row v.wade. in formal filings, they argue that roe is, quote, egregiously wrong. the justices could reject that or find mississippi's ban violated the right to choice by limiting it so early, just as litigation over the texas ban that i mentioned turns on whether that state's bounty scheme basically gives veto power over one woman's abortion to other citizens.
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that's how justice breyer put it in an earlier review. what else could happen? the court could uphold the ban while claiming it is not overruling roe in its entirety. i mention that because that has been a kind of misleading legal attack on choice that many conservative legal leaders have been using for some time. the court could also strike down this ban and just keep roe v. wade as part of the ban. we had the person who did that in court for obama has solicitor general and the solicitor general reports up to the attorney general. the new attorney general, merrick garland, has been leading the opposition to these southern state bans and accuses them of simply defying, denying and abrogating women's constitutional rights.
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>> the obvious and expressly acknowledged intention of this statutory scheme is to prevent women from exercising their constitutional rights. >> that is just legally true. that's not a debate. the supreme court has long ruled these are constitutional rights. in fact, new members of the court will say that they will ignore precedent or reverse that. you may recall this from the supreme court confirmation hearings that get covered on tv, it has been kind of a weird tradition, for the even republican appointees to say under oath all sorts of words about roe being a type of settled precedent. >> i understand the importance of the precedent set forth in roe v. wade. >> i don't think that abortion or the right to abortion would change.
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>> do you think some of the restrictions would change? >> i think some of the restrictions would change. >> the supreme court has held in roe v. wade that a fetus is not a person. that's the law of the land. i accept the law of the land. >> that is the law of the land. all of that was recent. much of it was under oath. that's one reason why these conservative lawyers are trying to lob this pretty far-fetched legal argument to the court, and you know i try to keep it real with you, to overturn roe without overturning roe, which just means overturning roe without admitting it, which is the kind of sleight of hand we are accustomed to in politics that the supreme court is supposed to be above and its members claim they are. as for accepting the law of the land, unlike other rapidly shifting and divisive social debates, most persons consistently believe abortion should be legal in most cases.
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now, there are still ernest and validly held religious and personal objections to abortion. anyone familiar with religious traditions knows about that. though how can both of those things be true? well, the data shows most americans do not think that even those earnestly held concerns should then be enforced by the government, any more than most religious people demanding that the government enforce the sabbath. that's just not a common view. america was founded with a separation of religion and state. so where do we all go from here? some legal experts think, as rachel said, that it is now a matter of when the court goes forward supporting these abortion bans, not if. we don't know. we will follow the case and see where it lands. but if that is true, then the choice movement will have to focus less on the courts, where precedent has changed over
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several decades, and probably focus more on the ballot box where these laws are being drafted in the first place. women are still half the nation and pro women's movements have been sparked from everything from the original calls to suffrage, to donald trump's election by a plurality, not a majority, while democratic women and women of color were crucial to the recent and record turnout in georgia which flipped two red senate seats blue and demoted mitch mcconnell, ending his sway over supreme court nominations. and a lot of that mobilizing was led by a rising woman in southern politics, tracy abrams. meanwhile, other women have continued to use power not only to push reform and new laws, but to recount personal stories in the congress about abortions and women's rights and present this in public to their colleagues, to the voters, to try to make sure the reality for women is told by women and presented to
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everyone. in this case by women in a position of power. now, against the reality of these very high stakes for women, there is also a new refrain you may have heard from the anti-vaccine right that tries to troll and mock these longstanding and heartfelt issues, opposing vaccines by saying, my body, my choice. like so much of trolling on the right, it's a deliberately hypocritical bit of political theatre, and yet as policy, it also inadvertently reinforces the gender discrimination in play that these groups are worrying about and urging the supreme court to fight against, because, again, i'm just going to try to tell it to you in reality, in plain english, in the vaccine fight there aren't any states using government power to legally ban the choice to decline a vaccine in your body. now, there are rules that might
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keep you out of a restaurant or a workplace, but it is most certainly your legal choice, man or woman, over your body to put a vaccine in it. but in mississippi and texas and this growing list of states, let's be clear. the men in power, i showed you it's overwhelmingly men, are already making it the opposite for women. the internal functioning of their bodies and medical choices is legally banned by the men in power. and if the supreme court continues to green light that against 50 years of precedent, the next resolution may come at the ballot box in deciding who to be making these choices about freedom for other people. that's our special report. when we come back, new remarks from dr. fauci. stay with us.
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donald trump's top aide during the insurrection, mark meadows is folding. he will, he says, cooperate in this house probe into january 6th. that's a reversal to weeks of jostling. it's a blow to donald trump. meadows apparently shook after steve bannon got indicted for defying the congressional probe and chairman thompson here on the january 6th committee says meadows has produced records and will appear for an initial deposition. bannon has a very different fate. he is fighting the federal government. he could go to jail. the committee also looking at potentially pressuring or punishing doj official jeffrey clark who may go to bannon route. let's go to democrat strategist and analyst juanita toliver. it appears that he would rather try his hand at a tough deposition than take any risk of
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going to trial and jail. >> it sounds like meadows thought to himself, how can i toe the line to stay out of jail, stay out of criminal contempt charges like bannon, but also toe the line of making sure i don't betray donald trump. that's why he was clear in saying i'll volunteer information via my attorney, but i'm still maintaining something that resembles this claim of executive privilege that we know trump is pushing for right now. when he's going into this, i don't think the select committee should expect him to spill his guts by any means, but they're going to get as much out of him as they can. and i appreciate in bennie thompson's statement as the chairman of the committee, he said, look, we still have other tools we could use, whether civil actions or other actions, but we're going to try to get as much out of meadows as we can. i think this is going to be a signal to the other trump allies who we know have received subpoenas and still have not complied yet, about how they can also navigate engaging with the
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committee so they don't find themselves in jail or facing criminal charges, but also not betraying trump here. >> do you think that the committee's hardball here backed by the attorney general is working? >> absolutely. did we expect meadows to fold two weeks ago, maybe three weeks ago? absolutely not. he was putting up the same hard front that we saw from bannon and others. so this is a crack. it's the first major crack here in seeing how trump allies can navigate this committee, because nobody wants to spend years fighting court battles, nobody wants to have criminal charges leveled at them, and nobody seems to be willing to put their lives on the line as martyrs as we've seen from bannon all for the sake of trump. they know he would never do the same thing for them, so they're constantly negotiating what they should do in order to toe that line, ari, because this comes down to making sure we don't cross trump but also don't end up in jail. >> i think you make such an important point.
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it was not automatic. plenty of people are cynical, but mark meadows was in congress. he certainly didn't want to go down any of the road bannon is in cost or stress, let alone a possible cell. so we are seeing real progress here on the investigative side. good to see you on more than one topic tonight. >> thanks, ari. see you next time. >> absolutely. appreciate it. meanwhile, dr. fauci busy with the new variant, but taking time to hit back at tucker carlson. why does the doctor feel that is a public health imperative? obama campaign veteran is here after this. or judge him by his jacket. while ted's eyes are on the road, his heart stays home. he's got gloria, and 10 grand-babies, to prove it. but his back made weekend rides tough, so ted called on the card that's even tougher. and the medicare coverage trusted by more doctors. medicare from blue cross blue shield. by your side, no matter what.
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we want to take fauci down and put him in an orange jumpsuit. >> i'm not in it for a popularity contest. i'm trying to save lives and the people who weaponize lies are killing people. when you show tucker carlson and peter navarro criticizing me, i consider that a badge of honor. >> dr. fauci hitting back on conspiracy theories and efforts to demonize him which come at a pivotal time with concerns over a new variant. we turn to a veteran of three presidential campaigns, discussing what is going on and why fauci is viewing this propaganda as an actual public health danger. welcome back. >> good to be back. thank you, ari. >> thank you.
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i will just say in my position as an anchor, i interview a lot of people and i've interviewed fauci repeatedly. i've seen him pass on many of these types of questions. indeed, he's adept at avoiding things that he thinks will become political clashes. and yet at this moment, at this time, he seems to have decided that there is a public health imperative as he just put it on msnbc, some of these lies are killing people. walk us through what you see here. >> yeah, i mean for dr. fauci, i don't think he wants to be political, but i don't think he has any choice. he has simply become the gop's villain of the last two years. and let's be clear as why he's such a villain to the gop. it is because he stood up to trump. that is his sin. that is the biggest sin you can commit in the republican party. just ask liz cheney what it's been like for her after she did that. now, if you remember the press conference where donald trump
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said, let's all drink bleach to cure covid, dr. fauci wasn't there. he didn't want any part of that. when donald trump was touting hydroxychloroquine, it was sort of like ivermectin. dr. fauci refused to endorse it, refused to have anything to do with it. and it was well reported before the election that if donald trump won the election, one of the first things he would do was fire dr. fauci. the crime that fauci committed was standing up to him. i also think, and we've talked about this before on "the beat," that this is kind of part of a gop war on science, but that war on science and the trump era has become part of the attack on democracy. when you're attacking logic and reason, these are the tools of science and democracy, and by attacking science you are weakening democracy. in a democracy a badly informed citizen is actually a bad
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citizen. and by spreading misinformation and conspiracy theories, what the gop is doing and they are paving the way for a trump resurgence. >> do you think any of them -- and we're dealing with people who have specialized education in rand paul and ted cruz, for example, so we know they secretly believe in at least some of the trappings of the academy and the ivy league as they go around pretending otherwise. do you think any of them worry they may reach a point where they have a populus that can turn on them or they're all in? >> no, look at january 6th, and dr. fauci alluded to that when ted cruz's criticisms of him were brought up. look at january 6th. the reality is whatever education ted cruz received, whatever education rand paul received, it doesn't matter. you know, ted cruz wants desperately to be a standard in
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washington, d.c. failure for him after his princeton education and harvard education is to go back to dallas and be a lawyer. that to him is a failure. he has worked his whole life to be a senator in dc and that is basically the be all and end all of his existence. the same thing is true with rand paul. he's a senator from kentucky. it's something his father never achieved, was being elected to u.s. senate, and he would be glad to toss aside everything he knows about medical science in favor of this ambition. this is what really motivates them. this is what motivates a lot of the gop when we ask how could the gop go along with this. for a lot of republicans, you know, some like lee stefanik went to harvard, they have great educations and they've been raised their whole life this is what they're supposed to do. and there's a famous line that a statesman is someone who wants to do something, while a politician is someone who simply wants to be somebody. the gop is full of a lot of
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politicians and very few statesmen. >> the last word and the psychology on some of those problems. thank you, sir. coming up, chris christie thought his book tour would be a presidential test run. he just got some bad news. he just got some bad news. we'll explain. - san francisco can have
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criminal justice reform and public safety. but district attorney chesa boudin is failing on both. - the safety of san francisco is dependent upon chesa being recalled as soon as possible. - i didn't support the newsom recall but this is different. - chesa takes a very radical perspective and approach to criminal justice reform, which is having a negative impact on communities of color. - i never in a million years thought that my son, let alone any six-year-old, would be gunned down in the streets of san francisco and not get any justice. - chesa's failure has resulted in increase in crime against asian americans. - the da's office is in complete turmoil at this point.
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- for chesa boudin to intervene in so many cases is both bad management and dangerous for the city of san francisco. - we are for criminal justice reform. chesa's not it. recall chesa boudin now. some republicans are hunting for famous potential candidates if donald trump doesn't run again, including chris christie with a new book that is a disaster because nobody is buying it, nobody. barack obama's memoir sold over 3 million copies in the first month. christie is not looking at obama numbers or looking at a million or half a million or 100,000. the results are in and this book moved about some saying it's kin
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to not publishing a book at all. it looks like the publisher won't even break even. the book is a money loser and has some in the party thinking christie or mr. 2 k looks like a loser of a potential candidate. his media tour featured him meanwhile trying to claim independence but also defending maga figures like trump and tucker carlson. >> the book is called it's about conspiracies and lies and you really don't take on fox news. why not? >> look, because the book -- >> tucker carlson -- >> because the book -- i don't watch it. >> are you aware of what he does? >> not really. i don't pay a lot of attention to it. >> christie says he doesn't pay a lot of attention to fox news. well, the news tonight is republicans and most americans are paying zero attention to chris christie. we'll be right back with one more thing. we'll be right back with one more thing
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we will be watching a supreme court arguments. you can find of coverage on msnbc throughout the day plus of course, our coverage when we come back tomorrow night. that does it for "the beat." "the reidout" with joy reid starts now. hi, joy. >> how are you doing, ari? have a great evening. >> you, too. >> thank you, cheers and thank you, everyone. good evening. we got a lot to get to including breaking news from the january 6th committee. guess what trump ally is cooperating with the investigation and hours away from a monumental day at the supreme court with abortion monuments on the line. we begin "the reidout" with republican gaslighting comparing mask mandates to the holocaust. again, last night it reached a new low when former respectable journalists laura logan went on want to be trump tv to say this about dr.

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