tv Deadline White House MSNBC December 8, 2021 1:00pm-3:01pm PST
msnbc. for now, nicolle wallace picks it up with "deadline: white house," right now. ♪♪ hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. the january 6th select committee making clear today that it will not sit idly by while the disgraced ex president and his aides and allies work to obstruct their investigation into the deadly capitol insurrection. the committee chair saying the committee will move ahead with contempt proceedings against mark meadows after meadows failed to show up today for his deposition. the prospect of meadows following in the footsteps of trump ally steve bannon and facing criminal concept charges for defying a congressional subpoena, a subpoena from the body in which he once served comes after meadows actually struck a deal to testify and after he produced lots and lots of rich documents for the
committee. a letter isn't by his attorney reveals a treasure drove of documents detailing the inner workings of the trump white house in the run-up to the deadly insurrection. it includes discussions about alternate electors on the same day that president bidenways declared the winner of the 2020 election. those documents were provided to the committee by meadows include, quote, a november 7th 2020 email discussing the appointment of all the mat slates of electors as parts of a direct and similarly attack after the election, a january 5th, 2021 emailrd ring a 38-page power point briefing entitled election fraud, foreign interference, and options for january 6th that was to be provided on the hill. among others, a january 5th 2021 email about having the national guard on stand by. it is in light of those documents being in the hands of the january 6th committee and the disgraced expresident's rage over revelations about his shall we say sickness in mark meadows
new tell-all book that the former trump chief of staff has done a sudden about-face. he is now refusing to sit down for his interview in part citing the expresident's claims of executive privilege. as we know, that is not a claim. they have been rejected by a federal judge. as committee member adam schiff points out it is also an argument completely independent mined by the fact that meadows just published a tell-all book covering some of the same topics the committee wants the talk to him about. >> i think it is very difficult to make the argument that i can write about the events of january 6th, i can talk about it in my book things that happened on january 6th and people i talked to, including the president, but i can't testify about those things. >> adding more context to why meadows may have suddenly stopped cooperating with the committee, the exchief of staff told a right wing tv network that the committee subpoenaed it is phone records as part of the
investigation. the committee would not confirm to nbc news how many subpoenas for phone records have gone out in total but here's what congressman aguilar had to say about this aspect of their investigation. >> this is just finding out who individuals were talking to, additional touring that january 5th and january th time frame. we have been able to gather critical information to our investigation, to our legislative efforts. this was -- this was systemic. this was -- >> what was? >> this was an opportunity for these individuals to disrupt the election and to come up with an alternate slate of electors. that was what they were focused on. >> january 6th select committee getting their hands on the goods, holding obstructionists accountable, even as their investigation roars forward. it's where we start this our are yamiche alcindor, she will soon be washington correspondent for nbc news and msnbc. welcome, my friend. she will continue to moderate washington week on pbs. also joining us, tim miller,
writer at large for the bull work. also an msnbc contributor. and "new york times" congressional correspondent luke broad water joins us. luke, i want to start with you and this slightly more filled in image of where the investigation stands. the committee has a lot of -- they have a lot. they have a lot of documents. congresswoman lack ran made clear 275 witnesses cooperated willingly in a fulsome manner. we focused on the couple that haven't. by the large, the people closest to donald trump in the white house, on the campaign and it seems at this point in his outer circle are cooperating with document production. tell me what your sort of sense is right now at this hour of how much they have. >> yeah. they are getting a lot more each day. tomorrow they are supposed to get a deposition from alley
alexander, who is one of the organizers of the stop the steal rallies. he was providing voluminous documents to the committee. he has agreed to testify. getting his cooperation -- this is somebody who has talked to members of congress in the build up to january 6th. he says he has talked to the white house in the build up to january 6th. finding out exactly what he knows, who he was speaking to, who he was communicating with, that's going to be very key for the committee. as you know, of course, mr. meadows has turned over thousands of pages of documents to the committee, including those text messages that you just highlighted. but there is another 1,000 text mess ams that he has not turned over. so they are very interested in trying to get those. he is saying they are of a personal nature and he will not disclose them. but i do think what we are seeing is every day, this committee is chipping away a little bit at the bigger story of january 6th and putting one
more piece in this massive jigsaw puzzle each day. >> i want to step back. i mean, we -- when we hear members talk about alternate slate of electors, there was no all the mat result. there was no fraud. so every team you hear alternate slate of electors it is predicated on a lie, a lie knocked down by bill barr from inside the government, chris krebs from inside the government and judge after judge after judge after judge who had to stare down rudy giuliani's claims of frauds. it seems they had their hands on all the high level government claims about alternate electors. it seems they have taken the plot to fabricate a coup, to fabricate a plot to overturn the election deep into the fabric of the government. >> exactly. the plan to put forward what i call a fake set of electors that
would vote for donald trump instead of the real electors that represent the people's votes for president joe biden, that comes from president trump himself, mark meadows himself, and some of the lawyers that were surrounding them, john eastman writes the memo putting forward how seven states could -- they could offer up these sort of fake electors that would vote for trump during the joint session of congress and mike pence to throw out the legitimate votes and embrace these election electors instead of -- instead of the people's will. so it does come from the top. one of the reasons why they want to talk to meadows so intensely is he is sort the necks outside between various asecretaries of it. emailing d.o.j. officials, justice department officials, on behalf of trump trying to ask hem to look into sort of crazy claims about election fraud. he's coordinating with rally organizers. they bring the masses to d.c.
he's there with donald trump in the white house as the riot unfolds, as the attack on the capitol unfolds. and so he knows his very actions from that day. so you can see why they so badly wanted him to come in and how he sort of played this back and forth with the committee. and they were willing to indulge him for so long, until today when they are now saying he didn't show up and we are going to have to hold him in contempt. >> tim, i want to read some of these emails that luke is talking about. they do two thing. let me read it and then we will talk about the two things they establish. this is from chairman bennie thompson's letter to george terwilliger, who is mark meadows' attorney. the text messages you did produce include a november 26 text exchange with a member of congress apparently about appointing alternate electors in certain states as part of a plan that the member acknowledged would be, quote, highwayly
controversial, to which meadow's apparently said, quote, i love it. now, at one level it sort of one ups don jr.'s, if it is what you say it is, i love it to the russians. at another level it clearly establishes the time line of the executive branch, the government level, to conspire with members of congress -- this is a text message from november, with a member of congress, presumably, a republican, to overthrow the results of the election. so meadows knew by november that trump had legitimately lost. so he is trying to, as luke said create fake electors. and that campaign goes on for two months. if they have meadows' text messages from november, they can only grow more incriminating. what is your sense of what the committee has its hands on? >> i have had a few conversations with friends that are on the committee. some of that stuff is already public. i think that what we know about
meadowsa actions already kind of tells us everything we need to know, the fact he is trying to overturn the election, actively participating in a plot to overturn the election, the one you just sent about the alternate set of electors. the other was put out, meadows emailing new mexico of all places and talking about how it's possible we could overturn the results there. to me, that one was so revealing because it just showed kind of how far gone mark meadows was. i mean the notion there was widespread fraud and chinese bamboo and dead hugo chavez was one thing. but the fact that he wanted to i don't have turn new mexico proves a conspiracy that he was trying to keep donald trump in power. we learn two things. he was actively part of the coup
attempt to overthrow the results of the election. two, he's not exactly a smart guy, to go along with something like new mexico. i think we learned about this not being a smart guy. when he wrote in his book -- this is an odd way to explain. but when he wrote in his book that the president had been weak and was patient zero exposing opponents and his own party and others to a deadly virus, that that came out, he didn't think there would be a big reaction to that. he is not a high thinker. and donald trump is upset. he doesn't want to appear weak. he doesn't want to be accused of trying to kill people with a deadly virus that he was exposing them to. so he's out of trump's good graces now.
i think that explains his actions now. he already submitted these documents to the committee but he needs the backtrack because he has got to get back in trump's good graces. and he made bungling errors that revile veal how ham handed but real his effort was as the chief of staff of the white house the try to overturn the election. >> yamiche, i want to ask you about the sort of -- the pardon recipients who are falling into the facing contempt, pleading the fifth or sort of choose your own adventure between the two categories. as continue is talk i am remembering some reporting. i believe it was from the "new york times," about trump wanting to wear a super man shirt of a his shirt after he left the hospital after covid. he was so obsessed with his -- i don't know the word, virality and strength and didn't want to look like he had caught the pandemic that he had helped spread by doing jack zero about it. so i am just thinking about --
both how mad trump must be at meadows and how stupid meadows must be thinking that trump would be anything other than enraged by what he has written. do you have any insight into what meadows is thinking? >> first i wanted to say thanks for that introduction and i am excited to officially call you a colleague next year. >> i am so excited. you already know what a fan i am. i am so excited. >> i'm super excited. when it comes to what is meadows thinking, i mean, what tim was just talking about sort of is the crux of why as soon as i heard he didn't want to go up for his deposition i thought oh, i know what it is, it is that the former president is mad at him and he doesn't want to be seen as sort of violating him any more than he already has. i mean he has already put out book basically laying out all of the different reasons why it was likely that he possibly spread the virus to other people, that being the former president. talking about now it was a false positive but he ended up in the hospital a few days later. i sort of shows mark meadows was
thinking short-term because obviously he had a book to sell. wanted to put something out that was new, information, buzzy, secondarily, the subject of that, being the former president become angry at you. one, he has already given documents to the committee. so there is a complication there in that there are now hard facts showing lawmakers things they didn't know or didn't have evidence for before. but there is also the long-term idea that mark meadows is going to have to confront. that is, he's not steve bannon. he doesn't want to have a criminal charge on his record. he wants to go back into politics. he doesn't want to have a complicated legal history. now mark meadows has to find himself making more tough choices. he has to wonder do i want my own life up ended by a criminal
charge and indictment? that's a decision he is going to have to make short low. >> that's a good distinction. there is a tendency and temptation to lump them all together as sort of ride or die, right in but they fall into different groups. i call them the pardon recipient, roger stone, mike flynn, steve bannon. meadows is sort of this like ride and, only die a little bit but still be clean enough to you know do other stuff. i want to show you something that stephanie murphy said on our air about sort of the stage at which they are doing this, how much they already have as these folks consider ways to obstruct the investigation. >> what that means, to be clear, is that they are invoking their fifth amendment right because they fear a criminal situation. and so the truth, though, that we have interviewed over 250
people. we have over 25,000 documents. and these handsful of people who refuse to cooperate with our committee will not deter our ability to get to the answers and the information. because for any one conversation, there are a number of other people who are a party of that conversation or a witness of that conversation. so they are well within their rights to plead the fifth. but we are going to get the information. >> yamiche it reminds me how this is so different from impeachment one. impeachment one a lot of the witnesses are career foreign service officers, they are people -- good and decent and honest public serve apartments who clashed with the trump world. they were broadsided by the political appointee who was in there trying to do trump's bidding. only people in trump's world have been subpoenaed. only people already dirtied up by donald trump's refusal to accept the result of the election have been subpoenaed. 275 people have cooperated,
that's 275 people people in on the scam, the coup plot, knowledgeable about it, certainly heard people talk about it. how much does it matter after mark meadows produces thousands of documents. >> that's a great question. one, i think it is telling that so many people cooperated. i remember reporting at the time, yes there were a lot of people who might have been in on the idea of overthrowing the election, there were a lot of people who happened in the in the room, in the vice president's office who were disturbed by what they saw, in real time were saying this is not right, scary, let's not do this to the american democracy. some could be on the periphery, who were copied on the emails or the idea making. but there is also some that said this is is a step too far. mark meadows was talking it seems to rally goers,
understanding the planning, understanding the threat of violence or what could have been the threat of violence, understanding what the sort of symmetry between the white house and the rally-goers, insurrectionist it turned out to be -- there are 100 questions that i would ask mark meadows including why did trump take so long to send sort of authorities to the white house? what was the president saying in real time? was he excited when he first saw it and became upset later on? my impression is he was watching the tv and feeling good that he had all of these supporters willing to break into the capitol for him. though it seems he didn't want to have people actually of course die. i think it is tell that he has given those documents. i think it's someone who of course lawmakers would benefit from hearing from. now of course is he required to prove former president trump got people to go to the capitol? anybody with a tv can see that. i was also struck by the idea that as we look more for
documents and deposition we also saw this play out in real time. i wasn't as if they were trying to hide the fact they were trying to overthrow the election. it was all public. tweets and different things. i wonder the lawmakers' take on that. >> mark, the specific piece of reliance on donald trump's part on pence to carry out the eastman coup blue point as adam kinzinger has coined it. as yamiche is pointing out, that played out at rallies in georgia that played out at the pre-insurrection tailgate on the ellipse. and i just want to read a little bit of what chairman bennie thompson said last night. "politico" reports that chairman ben 'thompson held court tuesday night offered newsy interesting glimpse into the committee investigating the attack on the capitol. the committee has not had any direct engagement with former vice president penguins. efforts here like everybody else on that day. we will be talking with the
secret service about what they did on that day to protect the vice president. we think that's important for the report. i'm aware of some of the books that have come out "i alone can fix it" and i believe robert costa and bob woodward's book deals with it. but tell me what pence's secret service knew that day. >> right. the interactions between president trump and vice president pence really get to the very center of the pressure campaign to try to overthrow the will of the people. and we know that several members of mike pence's inner circle have already been cooperating with the committee, preparing documents to send to the committee, getting ready to sit for depositions. so -- and we know from our reporting at the times that, you know, president trump, you know,
used a vulgarity against mike pence personally to try to force him to throw out the legitimate votes. see, it really -- the more we from people in the room the more details and descriptions we can get as the public to exactly what donald trump was doing as he sought the cling to power, and what -- what lengths they was willing to go to, each to disregard democracy to do that. >> yeah. and -- it's amazing. and so much of what we know is from investigative journalism, yours, luke, your, yamiche, and others. and so much of what we know the committee has used as a guide for some of their subpoenas comes from that journalism. i think it is the back end that has become opaque. what did those 275 witnesses yield? some of that is still unfolding. it is supering interest at a crucial pointed. luke broad water thank you for starting us off and being part of this conversation.
yamiche and tim stick around. when we come back, positive krars news. pfizer is saying its booster is critical to protect against the omicron variant. why are 51 senators expected to back a vote to veto president biden's vaccine mandate for businesses. plus, aoc is calling out some controversial colleagues for being, quote performance artists. later on the program there are republicans trying to do the right thing, at least a few of them, to stay afloat in a political party that choose lies above everything else. we will speak with the reporter who reports on those republicans ricking everything to stands up for democracy. all those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. don't go anywhere. ving big, holiday shopping at amazon. so now they're free to become... the handbell hammerschteins.
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republicans are doubling and tripling down this week on their opposition to president biden's vaccine mandates. it comes just as optimizations are again on the rise. the overwhelming majority of hospitalizations are among the unvaccinated, with just six days accounting for 60% of covid hospitalizations since early november. tonight senate republicans with at least two democrats are expected to pass a resolution to defund president biden's mandate that large private employers require workers to get vaccinated or guilty tested for covid weekly. it's almost fwaurn teed to fail
in the house but becomes am a week after the most recent protests nearly led to a government shutdown. "washington post" reports, another group of gop senators is prepare a second measure aimed at scrapping biden's vaccine mandate. professor, it comes as a process. the right wing disinformation networks talk down the vaccine. they make mandates sound like something they are not. it is clear from the science emerging that the only way to protect ourselves against this new variant is through not just two shots, but the booster. it seems like the politics and the devotion on the right to trash anything poll so that might get us out of this is
colliding with another precarious moment of the pandemic. >> nicolle, it is hard to find the right words here. but what we are dealing with now is an up creasingly let's say toxic combination of politics and stupidity resulting in a tremendous now gaping chasm between the vaccine haves and the vaccine have nots. this is what we are dealing with. i was predicting if things keep going the way they are going we are going to see a million fatalities from covid by the ends of first quarter of 2022. almost all of those fatalities will be among unvaccinated people. even now, with omicron out there, it is clear now from data that's coming up right now, today, in fact, that if you have had two shots and then get a booster or if you have had -- or if you have two shots and you have had the disease, you will be quite protected from omicron. the people that won't be, again, are those people who find it
somehow rational to reject common sense and public health. and that's what we are going see, two americas, vaccinated and unvaccinated. i feel sorry for those people. but i'm not sure what there is to do about it. they are just showing themselves to be increasingly off the wall stupid. and i don't know what else to say about it medically speaking, so to speak. >> tim, dr. redlener used two terms that folks like you and i throw around in politics all the time. haves and have-nots. and sort of people -- two americas. and it usually separates -- it usually describes a socioeconomic divide. it describes access to education. it describes -- sometimes includes large s.w.a.t.s of gender and race. this time the only thing that separates the haves and the have
nots are adherence to ideology. that's it. what if anything will break that cycle? >> all those other things -- >> i'm sorry. let me bring tim in, doctor. >> this is within people's control. it is hard at this late of date after the vaccine has been available for so long to believe that those who are dug in idea logically are going to change. i think there are still, you know, folks, who are, you know, just not consumers of news, not consumers of information, you know, who can still be reached who are outside of, you know, i think the high information bubbles. i think there are people that are in communities -- these are the saddest ones for me, really, who all those around them are not getting vaccinated. they live in a culturally conservative community. maybe they are not radicalized.
they are going along to get along. i think they can be reached. this is the most frustrating thing with the republicans. back in our day, we always had a libertarian strain. they were like i don't like mandates on anything. it is an ideological thing. but get the vaccine. the smartest thing you can do is get the vaccine. i would have sympathy for that point of view. i agree with biden's mandate but i understand that kinds of libertarian strength. but that's not happening here. that's what's so engaging and irresponsible for republicans in washington's rhetoric around this. the vast majority of republicans' rhetoric. >> yamiche -- et cetera not all of them but this is the republican party's position. they tried to shut down government last week. and the republican party, with two democrats joining them will be to obstruct policy based on
vaccine mandate. even if there are folks that are provaccine that's fantastic. still what is driving their poll so agenda, driving their opposition to this white house is the vaccine mandate. >> that's right. and this has been sort of the original sin of the pandemic. the number one at least based on my conversations with experts in looking at research, the number one sort of decider of whether or not you are going to take a vaccine still comes down to whether or not your political views align with the political views of the former president or the current president. it's not, i think, surprising that the most -- one of the most vaccine hesitant groups are white republican men. so there is some crossover, there is hesitancy in other groups, apparently african-americans and other groups bee when you look at how you view this pandemic, whether you see it as an assault on your personal freedoms, whether you see it as a hoax and being blown out of proportion really goes back to where you fall on the
political spectrum. that to me has been the thing that kplingted this pandemic and that made it so hard to sort of see where the ends of this pandemic could ever be. because we are living in a country where politics are absolutely affecting the way that people see scientists. when you look at the people who are basically going after dr. fauci threatening his life, they are on the right. i think that is a sad state of affairs and a sad way to look at this pandemic and i am not sure how we get out of it. i think it is going to be an interesting thing when you have democratic senators senator tester and? >> main willing to go with republicans and say we should not have vaccine mandates for private businesses. that to me is an interesting space. it is something i am sure president biden is looking at. but it's also not the biggest thing. the biggest thing is how sourcely do you take this pandemic? >> and how seriously do you take the victims. here's who the victims are, young people, particularly those between the age of 23 and 49 have a case rate that's 23%
higher than the statewide average in ohio n. michigan, the vast majority of hospitalized patients in ohio are unvaccinated. here's where we are dr. redlener, this summer's delta peak we had 102,000 case as day. last winter's winter peak, before problem took office, was 137,000 cases a week. we are right in between those two numbers, those two peaks at 119,000 case as day. where are we heading? >> well, nowhere good, nicolle. and the interesting thing is, i think we are all saying the same thing, is that when you look at those numbers, who are these people? these people are those who are so taken in by a political ideology, they will make decisions that are against their own -- not only their best interests, but against their lives, against their possibility of surviving the pandemic, which is astounding. and by the way, the other thing that's very concerning, of
course, is that we now have an average death rate, daily death rate of about 1,300 people or 10,000 a week dieing from a disease that's preventable if you take the damn vaccines. it is astounding the me as a physician, as a public health person, to see people that are really putting their lives on the line to stand up for something that makes not the slightest bit of sense, nicolle. >> an unbelievable death rate. we shouldn't get to the point where we leave that out. 1,300 people a day are dying of covid every day. doctor, thank you for reminding us of that. democrats are grappling with how to punish congresswoman lauren boebert for her racist rhetoric arguing it is the responsibility of the awol gop to hold her accountable this as we learn that hundreds of staffers are dealing with extreme anxiety and fear when
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learn about covid-19, no annual fee on any discover card. the more questions we have. the biggest question now, what's next? what will covid bring in six months, a year? if you're feeling anxious about the future, you're not alone. calhope offers free covid-19 emotional support. call 833-317-4673, or live chat at calhope.org today.
these three little sticks are game changers. it is what i call magic calin a stick!673, boomstick trio. glo, glimmer and color. boom glo. it feels so good on your skin. boomstick color, blush, your lipstick and any other color you want. this stuff is super creamy. the boomstick glimmer, it just feels special. it is a nice shimmer. i look like me, but i've got a glow. i will never to forgive -- i will never forgive former president of the united states and miss lackeys and his bullies that he sent to the capitol for the trauma that he -- that was
exerted on our staff. when i saw what it meant to the staff, the way it traumatized them, you cannot erase that. >> strong words from speaker nancy pelosi today for the ex president and his lackese talking about how the horrors of january 6th traumatized those in congress and sadly how they are all still feeling it today. nearly 400 staffers are urging congressional leadership to take action against lauren boebert for putting them in danger, citing her racist comments toward congresswoman omar. writing the recent remarks bicep sentive boebert heightened the climate of islamophobia on the hill creating a environment of anxiety for fear for muslim staff and communities and many of us to lock to our kong leaders for support. today a group of boerts introduced a resolution to strip boebert of her competent assignments. pelosi so far has not taken action against boebert arguing
it is the responsibility of republicans to do so. we are back with yamiche and tim miller. any insight into what sort of line speaker pelosi is drawing between gosar's conduct and boebert's? yamiche? >> i think in some ways it is an interesting conundrum that the speaker finds herself in which is that republicans and the republican lawmakers are going to continue to do sort of beyond landish things that cross the line. you think of paul gosar and tweeting an animated video of him killing aoc and attacking the president. this leaves anti-muslim sentiment and this comment that is sort of vial to suggest in think way that a sitting congresswoman is a physical threat to you because of her religion and her ethnicity,
which can't really be separated when you look at this. it is not just about religion but about who she's as a person. i think nancy pelosiy has to make hard decisions bass she is dealing with staff who are are part of the democratic base and also people who want to feel six. after january 6th so many people are on edge. this was a capitol that was violated, so many people have anxiety because they lived through one of the most extensive attacks on democracy in our lifetime. it really is, i think, a tough line that she has -- based on my reporting, i think it is one of those things where she is trying to take it case by case. but it make it really hard when you have sort of a continual occurrence of sort of events that make people feel unsafe. >> tim, to be more blunt, i mean there is sort of this i don't know mixed bag of nuts, jerks,
and racists. i don't know that it's even a useful undertaking to put them in categories and decide what -- they all require action by a vibrant republican party that gives a bleep about nuts, racists, and jerks. we don't have that. so in the absence of a party structure, nobody cares about any of it. but i think she said something else that we don't spend enough time talking about. i was in the white house on 9/11, and i experienced the trauma of being told by secret service to take off my shoes and run. nobody told me that 9/11 was a tourist visit. nobody made fun of me or told me to put on my big girl pants when i went to the doctor six months later and said i couldn't sleep. no one delegit mazed my trauma because no one delegitimized what i had been through. this group of capitol staffers has the most excruciating task of getting through their trauma
with one of the two parties on capitol hill denying it ever occurred. what do we do for them? >> look, i agree with all of that. i think that nancy pelosi has a bigger job than having to try to throw red cards at the nuts, bigots, and racists, whatever your three groupings were there all the time. how can she? she have more to do. i think they need a better culture around the staff and people who work there. republicans could control this and they say the democrats are snowflakes for being worried about this. i think it is worth remembering they are trying to be performative now and there were traumatized on january 6th. that was republican. they didn't act dignified in the fallout of that. peter myer out of michigan reiterates that a couple of his colleagues said they didn't vote
to impeach trump because they were worried for their own political safety. so these people were so scared, these republicans were so scared that they didn't live up to their democratic duty. you can't say that about any of the democrats in congress. you know, nancy mace, congresswoman from south carolina made fun of aoc. nancy maisz the day of had her kids there and testified that day and talked about how scared she was for her kids. i was sympathetic for her. weeks later she pretends like none of it ever happened and is making fun of aoc. lauren boebert who we are referencing today to troll -- posts a christmas picture of her four kids holding assault rifles. i think the people that really showed themselves to be cowards in the time since january 6th are those that didn't change
their fear for confused and didn't speak up for good and now are doing stupid online trolling games that i think rightly make people feel uncomfortable to be around them. >> and jam eesh -- this is probably part of a longer conversation, but it's going to be whack a mole until we get back to a point in this country where it is not appealing to have a jerk, a nut, or a racist represent you in congress. i mean, the problem is that these people are electable in today's gop. >> that's right. and when you think about it, i'm not sure what that time period will be where people don't want to sort of elect people who are -- have problematic views when you think about the fact that former president trump continues to be out will and playing a role in the gop. i want to underscore apart from what happened on january 6th which is traumatic eyesing and scaring and terrifying these are hill staffers who working with congress people who are getting
death threats daily, who are going to events and hoping they are not the next lawmaker who gets shot with a assault rifle or a handgun that someone purchased. i think you have to think about the daily lives of the staffers. they are answer opening the mail and answering the phones when people are telling them they want to kill their bosses. and then they are going out into the world having to stand next to the lawmakers. of course the lawmakers are courageous standing there. we are also living in a country where we are down playing the idea that in everyday people's lives they are having to deal with this sort of real facing of mortality and they are doing it because they are working on laws, they are working on policies. this is not -- they didn't sign up for this. they signed up for going to the capitol and getting the people's work done, whether you are republican or democratic but on the democratic side they are facing an uphill battle when it comes to violence. it is not hyperbole to say a lot it is coming from the right, from sitting lawmakers making jokes they think are livity when they are in some ways endangering people's lives.
>> we don't spend enough time talking about what you just articulated. when you read the news and we cover it here live about gehlman's piece, how violence is only acceptable on one side, that probably has more resonance in sort of a post gabby girds america. yamiche and tim will stick around. president biden is in the very red state of missouri this afternoon promoting his bipartisan infrastructure package reminding swing state voters that his agenda will benefit every single one of us. we will talk about president biden's day next. >> i know some on the left and some on the right are losing faith in a common american future. they are convinced a common vision is our destiny. but a fragile unity is the
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instantly clear everyday congestion. and try vicks sinex children's saline. safe and gentle relief for children's noses. our building the better america tour is going to give us a chance to meet people where they work, where they work here, what the communities that they live in. what they need. hear firsthand. and showcase how our bipartisan infrastructure law, which has changed their lives for the better came about because we worked together. >> that was president biden in the last hour. he is taking another trip to promote his$1.2 trillion infrastructure package he signed last month into law. today, he's in missouri. missouri's just one of the many swing states he's been traveling
to. likely a politically strategic decision with control of congress very much on the line. i think it's more than that. i think this is who he is. he ran in the democratic primary as someone who wanted to govern for all americans, who would be the president for all americans. his outreach, i think it was an interview, i don't remember with whom, he said my way to sort of get to rural america is to focus as much on curing covid in rural america as i do in congested parts of the country. this seems very much in line, it seems more profound than just a legislative marketing tour to me. any insight on what's behind where they go? >> based on my conversations with white house officials, there are sort of political decisions being made about where he goes. it's not i think a coincidence he was in a swing state then new hampshire and in michigan. there is this sense that the president really wants to get
out to all americans and say look, the government can work. the thing that the president has said over and over is that people doubted the fact that the package could happen. we saw infrastructure week after infrastructure week during the last administration and nothing got done and this time around, you saw a generational investment in infrastructure here and you've also seen some republicans who did not vote for the bill already starting to try to take credit for some of the things that have come out of the bill and some of the funding that's going to be helping cities around the country. this is really president biden saying i want to make sure i take credit for this. i want people to understand what this government has done for him. there's the polling numbers, covid, omicron, the remnants of afghanistan. all these different things the president's having to contend with and he wants to tell americans, even with all of that, here's a government that's worked for you. >> you know, tim, there's such a distorted sense of the biden
presidency. i don't think it really, it's exasperating to president's supporters. i see, you know, i've walked in both worlds. i worked in the white house and felt exasperated by the media climate, but i see what rises to the top. what republicans can't have happen is for this president to be associated with the popularity of his agenda. his agenda, separately and together, all of it, there's nothing in the biden agenda that's less popular than 60%. the president is way below that. what republicans do is they keep this maniacal focus on sort of attacking the president, creating this sort of distraction, distortion field almost of the democrats in disarray so that the attention isn't on the popular agenda. how do democrats unravel that and get the focus back on what sits above, well above 55, 60%
among the general public. >> i think biden was really good about this during the campaign and trump always talked about the silent majority or whatever. biden really did speak for the silent majority. both in the democratic primary and in the general election. he did well with voters who were not twitter power users. about getting things back to normal. about being competent. about caring about the problems in their lives and not worrying about all the nonsense that donald trump got wrapped up in. i think somewhere over the last three months, you know, that's gotten away from him and i think part of that has been in their control, some has been out. from here forward, giving back to that, i know there's a lot of people that don't like joe manchin and democrats for a good reason, but he knows how to win in red participant of the country. i saw a tweet from jake today, he has a card he holds. he said here are the things we've delivered the last year.
the democrats. the infrastructure bill. its new rules to help curb climate. this childcare tax credit. i think joe biden needs to take from that with manchin, take these popular issues and do more of what he's doing today. don't just go to swing areas. go into red areas. into hostile areas. it's okay for him to get booed and show them he cares about the regular folks. obviously your maga voters are never going to come, but there's a lot of people who are the silent majority who live in red america who can hear from their friends all the bad stuff about biden. he's got to figure out a way to reach them and i think doing this and selling the popular agenda is the way to do it. >> i'm just going to tease this part of the conversation. there's also an offensive message about the republicans who were against safe roads, bridges, tunnels, all the stuff that makes everyone safe that biden is out there touting.
that part of the conversation to be continued. >> broadband. >> exactly. thank you so much for spending so much of the hour with us. the next hour starts after a quick break. don't go anywhere. r starts aftea quick break. don't go anywhere. wondering what actually goes into your multi-vitamin. at new chapter. its innovation organic ingredients and fermentation. fermentation? yes, formulated to help your body really truly absorb the natural goodness. new chapter. wellness well done. at vanguard, you're more than just an investor, you're an owner with access to financial advice, tools and a personalized plan that helps you build a future for those you love. vanguard. become an owner. your plain aspirin could be hurting your stomach.
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impeachment is an incredibly serious act, but it, what we witnessed at the capitol, the attempted insurrection, the involvement of a sitting american president and propagating the falsehoods that led up to that required a significant response. and so that is why i ultimately arrived at the decision to impeach. >> hi, again, everyone. it's 5:00 in new york. that was congressman peter myer in michigan. he had only been in congress three days before the trump's
angry mob stormed his new place of work. fueled by the lies his party is still spreading. one week after that fateful day, he made history, becoming the only freshman congressman in u.s. history to vote to impeach a president of his own party. he was one of the only ten house republicans to do so. in a remarkable new piece of reporting in the atlantic written by tim alberta, alberta delves into myers' inner turmoil writing quote, in the days leading up to the vote, myer says he barely slept. it was the worst 96 hours of my life, he says. whatever his final decision, myer didn't want to blind side the people back in his district so he began making calls. but the conversations did not go well. he remembers one man arguing that the election had been stolen, that trump was entitled to a second term, that myer was a pawn of the deep state.
the man went full qanon spouting conspiracy theories and threatening him with vague consequences if he didn't impeach. he was well acquainted with the talk. one of his own siblings was. the facade had been stripped away. it showed me just how bad this had gotten. in what now reads like a harbinger, we have witnessed from the republican party to the man who lost in the white house and to his lies. myer details for alberta a striking memory. quote, he remembers walking into a small side room and encountering two house republican colleagues. they were discussing the 25th amendment, talking about phone calls they made to the white house, encouraging officials to invoke the 25th amendment, he says. he then notes neither of them voted for impeachment one week later.
he now faces a fundamental struggle. how to do the right thing. at the same time, how to stay afloat in a political party that chooses day after day, lies, fears and grievance above all else. he remarks on the harsh dose of reality served on the michigan congressman. writing this, quote, in the days after january 6th, myer believed he was part of a mission to rescue the republican party from itself. now he laughs. and that is where we start this hour with tim alberta. staff writer for the atlantic. tim, i don't know how to put this at this point. all of your reporting sort of building on the previous. this is part of the issue we have led this show with the last two days and this is just stunning and startling and to this one congressman you sort of do the whole story telling of the modern republican party. tell me what else you learned from him.
>> i thaugt he was interesting because he was brand-new and also because i think to the arch voter, he's the sort of person who you'd want in politics. he's a serious guy. he didn't come to be an entertainer. you know, he, he's very earnest. he's obviously not a perfect lawmaker. he's going to make lots of votes that people are going to disagree with, but he does ultimately strike an objective observer. he's here for the right reasons. wants to be responsible and govern. and when confronted with the carnage of january 6th, he was so new, i joked to him right after he took the vote for impeachment, he was so new he didn't realize doing the right thing might have the consequences it had. and in fact, obviously he's had to grapple with not only after january 6th, but of course a week later voting to impeach the
president. he did go from a place where he believed and it was naivety, idealism, that americans of good will would stand together and reject the sort of extremism and hatred and malice we saw on january 6th and it would serve as an inflection point in the republican party and would allow for the saner voices and cooler heads to prevail. and in fact, what he came to find out, his sort of education, if you will, in the months after january, was that actually, this was going to continue on the same trajectory and that the people like him who had spoken out and tried to stop it were going to find themselves with a target on their back. in other words, as i write in the piece, he was hoping to force this reckoning on the republican party, but before long, he realized the reckoning was coming for people like him.
>> it's so important because we'd spent a lot of time talking about the republican party because their ideology now sits at this uncomfortable intersection of grievance, hostility toward the election result. of hostility toward public health measures but intersects with the threat of violent extremism and the piece is so taught to read because of this fear of danger. i want to press you to tell me everything you understand about this conversation he overheard about the 25th amendment. it is i think the fourth piece of reporting that has emerged over the trump years after serious discussions from serious people. either cabinet officials or in this case, republican lawmakers, about donald trump's removal from office and i wonder if you can take me inside what he thought when he heard some of his brand-new colleagues talking about 25th amendment. >> sure. i would place that specific
conversation in the sweep of a series of conversations that took place on january 6th. the first was when on older member of congress, a more senior member of congress, said to myer that no, i don't believe the election was stolen. i don't believe there are any you know, serious irregularities here, but i'm going to vote against certifying the result. and myer asked him why. and this senior congressman said to him, he said this is the last thing donald trump will ever ask you to do. right. fast forward a few hours later after the insurrection when myer was in the rayburn hearing room where hundreds of lawmakers had been evacuated to and he overhears another two of his senior more you know, veteran republican colleagues, both of whom he described to me as sort of respected members of the conference.
people who you know, he would, especially as a guy who's, it's his third day on the job, he would look to them and view them as people who were worth listening to and know their stuff. and he hears them discussing their phone calls and communications with the white house, urging cabinet officials to invoke the 25th amendment because they believe that not only what they've seen in the last few hours is a danger to the country, but they're worried about what could unfold over the coming 14, 15 days until the new president would be sworn in. so myer hears that and thinks, okay, well, clearly, the momentum is on the side here of anybody like me who's horrified by this and who wants to see something done to rectify this and address this quickly. and then the final conversation happens a couple of hours later once the capitol is secured and when members return to the house floor to take the vote on certifying the election results,
myer returns to the floor believing that everything that's transpired over the last five or six hours would serve as such outrage in the minds of all of the lawmakers. all of the members of congress, that they would come back to the house floor and they would vote in overwhelming numbers to certify the election to send a message to the insurrectionists that he will not be bullied or intimidated from doing our jobs under the constitution. in fact, what myer realizes is that if anything, the numbers are going to be swinging the opposite way. he has a conversation with a colleague of his and myer says his colleague is shaking, trembling. physically trembling. he goes over and says, are you okay, just checking on his well-being. the member says no. i'm not okay. i don't believe this election was stolen. and yet i think now i have no choice but to vote to decertify
the election results because i'm afraid these people are going to come after me and my kid and maybe try to kill us. those three sets of conversations happening within the space of a few hours, it's dystopian. yet the response from many in the republican company continues to be a shrug. >> fill in the blank for me toward kevin mccarthy. >> i wrote in the piece that watching myer refuse to criticize mccarthy was the closest i'd ever come to seeing a person tortured because this is the essence of peter myer's struggle right now. right? he is a guy who wanteds guy who right thing. he has placed himself on the right side of this. on this question of american
democracy and yet, this guy wants a future in politics. this guy probably wants to be a u.s. senator in a couple of years. he has a bright future. he's wealthy. articulate. a lot of people like him. he has boundless potential to rise in the party, but if he wants to go around picking fights with kevin mccarthy and elise and other republican leaders, he knows he's going to be long for the world the same way he's seen adam kinsinger leave. it's not difficult if you're in his position, to sort of play this out and see how far it's going to get you. if you decide to speak your mind about the leadership of your party. so he's made a conscious decision that even while doing the right things he's not going to necessarily say what he really feels like saying because at the end of the day, even for somebody like peter who took that vote for impeachment,
self-preservation is still a major concern for these folks. that's just the sad reality of politics. >> i want to read what is an exquisite paragraph in an incredible peace. the real threat isn't donald trump. it's somebody who watched donald trump and can do this a lot better than he did, myer says. in the space of a year, he transformed from a political romantic to an emboldened survivor to a daunted skeptic. he tried to force a reckoning on his own party. now the reckoning is coming for republicans like him. and i want to go through this with you. these are the ten house republicans who voted to impeach. congressman myer, fred upton, liz cheney and adam kinsinger.
who negotiated all of the terms then brock pulled out from under him. tom rice, jamie butler, who released a statement during the impeachment trial detailing a conversation between mccarthy and trump about trump feeling like the insurrectionists were more mad than he was and congressman valio. i wonder if you can tell me more about this group of ten and if there's anything we don't know about what the last 11 months have been like for any of them. >> sure. well, i'll offer you a piece of reporting that went up on the cutting room floor. which is that kevin mccarthy, as you will recall, went down to mar-a-lago not long after the second impeachment.
after former president trump had left office. when he came back, i had several sources -- >> we're going to try to bring back tim's shot to get him to finish that answer. we also plan to keep talking about his reporting. we're going to bring in some of our other friends. we're going to talk about his devastating assessment of today's republican party. whether there's anything that can be done to it. plus, how the big lie has enabled fanatics of the disgraced ex-president to take control of the elections. the actual machinery of elections in a key swing state. and the surgeon general's warning that america's young people are suffering a mental health crisis. when the head of instagram about the harm that social media platform is doing to teens. deadline white house continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. house contins after a quick break.
have you received any death threats? did that factor in your decision beforehand? >> we're still sifting through a lot of the information. to answer a question, that did not factor in my decision. i don't believe in giving he can lehr's veto. if you let that guide decisions, that's the definition of terrorism is trying to achieve a political end using violence. when it comes to my family's safety, that's something we've
been planning for, preparing for. >> that was the day after voting to impeach the ex-president. peter myer standing by his decision, not letting threats of violent prevent him from maintaining his principles, but as we've been discussing about tim's latest piece in the atlantic, myer is an exception in this republican party and in the months since he made that decision, he's had to navigate an extremely difficult path in the republican party. tim alberta is back. joining our conversation, eddie, and my friend matt is here. political strategist, former chief strategist and former democratic candidate for texas lieutenant governor. tim, we had a technical glitch. we were about to share some reporting that did not make it into the piece about the ten republicans who voted to impeach donald trump. >> yeah. i'm sorry about that. essentially what happened was that when kevin mccarthy went
down to mar-a-lago to try and make peace with then former president trump a few weeks after the insurrection on january 6th, he came back to the capitol and as it was told me by multiple people, attempted to drive a wedge into the ten. sort of floating the idea that some of these people may be able to salvage their futures in the republican party but only if they took certain steps to right themselves. not just with the president, but with the rest of the house republican conference, the donor base. with certain elements of the party grass roots that can pull strings of power and money and influence. what's so interesting is that when you look at the paths taken by those ten, there was, as one of them described it to me, almost like a suicide pact when they voted for impeachment and sort of said to each other, look, we're linking arms and
jumping off a cliff here. there was a belief in the days that followed they would be sort of bound together in the hstory books. what we've seen in the months since is a sharp divergence. you've had a handful of these folks who have gone silent and almost pretended as though the vote didn't occur. you have some folks who have gone in the other direction who have continued to attempt to lead the party away from trump and really lead the party into a confrontation with trumpism and lies and conspiracy mongering surrounding the 2020 election. then some folks who have tried to split the difference and be in the middle. i think that's where peter lands. he's not necessarily shying away from having those conversations, but he's certainly not prosecuting the case. affirmatively and aggressively the way he was in the months after january 6th. and so there's some tension even
within that group of ten now and certainly the fact that first, anthony gonzalez and now more recently, adam kinsinger, have announced their retirements and more are considering it or entertaining the prospect of what they should be doing to position themselves in a friendlier way to the republican leadership heading into 2022. i think we're really sort of at a pivotal moment here for some of those folks who voted for impeachment because they understand that of the ten who took the vote, it would be surprising if more than half had a future after next november. >> you know, matt, we are sort of unsparing i think in our analysis of the current republican party. i don't think any of these folks are trying to stop the slow rollback of the right to vote in states. 400 bills that would suppress the right to vote and nullify a
lot of the votes that come down are rolling through and are going to have used this vote to impeach trump to him sort of articulating thrust themselves into sort of a warrior position against the big lie, but these are ten people who i think will end up in the history book as being ten people who had the i guess in trump's view, audacity to tell the truth about what he did inside a deadly insurrection at the u.s. capitol, endanger mike pence's life. halt the peaceful transfer of power in this country. and the fact they're fracturing amongst themselves seems about right for any sort of small group with only this one decision holding them together. this one thing that they have in common on this one day, matt. >> you know, as i was listening to tim and you and this conversation, it just struck me, the importance of what
maya angelou said. without courage, you can't practice any other virtues. whether it's to tell the truth, whatever it is, we can all claim this behavior, but if we're too weak in the moment to practice the courage we need, as we've seen the republicans over and over and over again, knowing full well i think in their deepest soul and heart, that they know what's happening isn't the right thing. these ten, at least in that moment, and i can be critical of them for facilitating this that it will continue and that's my problem with this. i completely honor their courage in this moment, which it took a lot of courage in this moment to do and it will continue to do, but i don't think they fully admitted the reality of what the republican party is. they can't not, you cannot remove trump from a republican party that is trump.
85% of the republican party is this. is who they are. is supportive of the big lie. is supportive of all the things that have not allowed us to deal with covid. is anti-science. doesn't care about the truth. so, yes, give them the honor in the moment of that courage that they had that the other republicans didn't, but what they're doing by staying in the republican party in my view is facilitating a process that we're ultimately going to lose our democracy and i don't know what the history books are going to say because the history books obviously aren't written and the history books, we don't know what the end result of what's happening our country will ultimately be over the next two or four or five years. so i don't have any idea what's going to be in those history books and two, whether or not the republicans that are then in power are going to let people read those history books. >> eddie, i'm so struck that the 25th amendment was talked about again and it's not the first and
only thing that we all pull out. this is another group, separate from the folks we know miles writes about in op-ed in the anonymous book who were very close to trump. who were talking to him that day. who thought he should be removed from office. the 25th amendment is for being incapacitated, unfit for office. we know bob corker thought donald trump was unfit for office. sought to minimize any presidents and all presidents that came after nuclear authorities. we know that the cabinet at least at a couple of junctures, with votes, those folk who is saw him all day every day. we know general milley sought to prevent conflict by intervening with his counterparts. and now we know that two republicans were relying on the 25th amendment again. and i don't know who they thought was going to invoke it. i think by that point, the
cabinet was hollowed out. but once again on january 6, republicans thought other republicans would deal with trump to remove him from office because he was unfit. >> right. and tim reports that there's a moment in which myer receive and encrypted text message from the house encouraging him to do what he did. there are those around that were present, around president trump or then president trump, who were republicans who saw very clearly that he was not qualified to be the president of the united states. but yet they were cowardly in those very important moments, but you know, i was thinking about tim's piece which is so powerful on so many different levels. we've talked about us being in a cold civil war and we usually think about this in terms of republicans and democrats, but the analogy makes sense because in the context of the civil war, people are asked, demanded, to
show their fealty. remember there's this moment in the piece where tim writes where myer and somebody calls him an m'ing traitor. will you fight for trump or the united states. will now defend autocracy or democracy? that choice is being presented over and over and over again. then there's another side of the piece i was struck by. that is the intimacy of it all. tim and i talked about this before. that's representative myer's sister. remember, there are brother and brother fighting against each other. families separated because of the civil war. here, you have in this story, peter's sister, qanon, hinting she's going to support a primary run against him. this is really intense and it
goes beyond just simply fealty to trump. it goes to the very core of people being asked to choose sides and consequences. you choose the wrong side, you're likely to be threatened. your family could be threatened. >> tim, i need you to weigh in on this. i have more lived experience than i wish on sort of families with this freight train that runs through them on this divide, which tragically didn't end last november. it got worse. talk about what peter looks like? >> yeah. he touched on it. and sadly, it's a reality that many families are going through. in fact, just in the 24 hours since the piece published yesterday in which i describe myer's strained relationship with his sister, who has become sort of a devoted conspiracy theorist, who is supporting a primary challenge to her brother because she believes that he's
part of the deep state who helped to rig the election against trump among other reasons. i've just in the 24 hours since the piece published, i've received a bunch of e-mails from people around the country saying hey, listen, i feel for this guy because i've got the same thing going on in my family. i've got a brother, a sister-in-law, a parent who i no longer talk to because they're wandering out into the woods hoping for a radio signal telling them president trump is about to retake power. this is real. listen, i don't think any of us want to, or take any pleasure from sort of banging the alarm here and telling the american people that they should be scared and that they should really begin to consider seriously what it would look like to have a violent fracture in this country. but january 6th, i think showed us how real it is and there's
been nothing in the nearly year since to suggest that the prospect of a violent fracture is receding. the point was to travel a year in the shoes of this freshman lawmaker who was a romantic, an idealist. who wanted to believe that no matter how bad things looked, really when push comes to shove, america could still get its act together and come together and still do the things it needed to do to move forward. in fact, now one year later, he and many others are beginning to question that and really wondering where we go from here because these skiz ms are so deep and because, as matthew said, there is too little courage and as eddie said, too much cowardice.
>> it's an incredible piece of reporting. a lens through which we'll look through everything. tim, you're on note. eddie and matt, you need to come back because matt's made news of his own. we'll ask you to come back tomorrow for that part of our conversation. when we come back, how the big lie has led to big changes and who gets to oversee elections in michigan and no matter who wins the votes as much who counts them. that's next. wins the votes as much who counts them that's next. ♪ ♪ ♪ hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
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republican operatives and conservatives and trump alleys are analyzing everything that went wrong in the coup attempt last time. everything that thwarted, that prevented them last time. they are preparing to steal the election in a somewhat more respectable way by taking control of the structures and the institutions that officially have to make the decisions. >> that was atlantic writer, bart, sounding the alarm yesterday, warning about how the disgraced ex-president and his allies will attempt their 2024 coup. slate is reporting that quote, democrats and even some
republicans fear that if trump -- could lead to greater chaos than last time. gop county and congressional district organizations have moved to replace long serving republican canvassers in eight of the state's 11 most populous counties. this takeover could allow trump allies to throw out election results simply because they don't like them or delay certification entirely. slate adds quote, trump supporters clawing their way into positions of public authority don't need to win a lawsuit proving fraud or to delay certification of results indefinitely. if rogue canvassers can create enough fog to postpone certification for even a few weeks, michigan might not have a final vote count by the safe harbor deadline in early december. state election results submitted after that day cab challenged in congress. joins us now is jocelyne benson. i read chairman thompson of the
1/6 committee's letter to meadows about the documents in a totally different way. with chills up and down my arms after reading about what is happening in michigan. tell me how real this threat is that the election in michigan could be subverted. >> it's very real. and it's something that we were aware of in 2020 and that we were strategically in partnership with folks on both sides of the aisle to prevent. one, this is a very real threat. there are already more people in places of authority, in michigan, the local level, and the state level, than there were in '20, and some have stated they could be willing to abuse or misuse their ministerial role as a canvasser to fail to certify an election. if that happens, it doesn't necessarily mean the election results ultimately won't be certified. there are court protections and
laws in place right now to protect the will of the people. what it does create is more space for confusion and to continue a narrative of illegitimacy of not just the election, but of those who rightfully win the election and through the will of the voters and then that creates an air of illegitimacy that harms their ability to govern. you could argue that's some of what we're seeing know. the seeds that were planted in 2020. all i can say is that it's going to get worse. prepare for the battle to be worse and for the outcome to be more challenging than it was in '20 and that's what we're dealing with right now. >> i mean, we know some of these folks are and their views because they've told us what they are. this is from slate. wayne county, where doit is located, is the hit of a dispute
i believe they were inaccurate. we know they weren't. we know that the michigan result was audited multiple times so this is a truth denier. someone who doesn't believe bill barr's assurances or chris krebs' assurances or even republicans like peter myer, who voted to certify the results. what do you do with these truth deniers on a canvassing board? >> well, a couple of things. the county and state board of canvassers have a ministerial role in the election process and it's one that partisan actors are attempting to abuse as they replace canvassers with party or candidate specific loyalists. the reality is that even if a canvasser with partisan -- refuses to certify an election,
ultimately he would, this is why -- the secretary of state or attorney general who's willing to enforce the law then that creates another lever that can be utilized to allow this undermining of democracy to come to fruition. whether it's a delay and the article that you mentioned lays out what will happen in the delay and what that empowers congress to do or whether ultimately succeeded in actually blocking the local voters to determine the slate of electors that is sent to washington. i think right now, people can know that with the '22 election approaching, one, this is not just happening in michigan. it's happening in different ways in nearly all of the six states that came under fire in '20. georgia, nevada, michigan, wisconsin, pennsylvania, and we have to assume that there will
be varying degrees of success. more so than in '20. but voters have an opportunity in '22 so ensure at the very least, many of the most powerful actors are able to be in place to put a stop to any of these local shenanigans and we also have to prepare for a lot more shenanigans to occur. perhaps some to be successful in '24 and all collectively as a country, talk about it honestly, openly, consistently and with a sense of urgency that will demand ultimately at the end of the day, democracy will still prevail. >> i know yesterday, you participated in a conversation with the white house about political violence. is there anything you could tell us? did you come off reassured on the radar? what can you tell us about that call? >> i'm hopeful. one of the ways we're looking at this in michigan, preparing for
'24, is what can we do to be stronger in '24 than we were in '20? what can we do to build up more places of support and more people of authority who will do the right thing than perhaps they are in '20. one of the things we didn't have is the support of the federal government. in fact, one could argue evidence is now revealing that in many ways, the federal government was on the side of trying to undermine democracy in 2020. so knowing that at least we'll have the executive branch on the side of democracy as we lead into '24, the conversations of how we can create a stronger sense of urgency to protect election officials and they've created a task force to do so and i would argue it needs to be more effective than what's happening at the local level. i believe we should consider creating a code of ethics for the federal government to create some guardrails, that expectations and ethics for officials to follow.
there are a number of ways and they'll flush them out in the months ahead and i think we need to utilize the fact that we have an executive branch that's able to support democracy right now and demand more urgency from that branch as we approach '22 and '24. >> it's such an unbelievable commentary on the state of affairs and of what the last administration represented that in your post, it is notable that you now have a white house on the side of democracy. the last one wasn't. they wanted to subvert the will of the people. it's still mind bending. i hope i'm never not shocked by that. thank you very much for spending some time with us today. >> thank you. turning now to a little breaking news on a story we brought you at the top of the last hour. in a move that is likely to very much please the disgraced ex-president, former white house chief of staff is now filing a lawsuit against speaker nancy pelosi and members of the january 6 committee in which
he's asking a court to invalidate the subpoenas issued by the committee. that lawsuit comes as the committee is preparing to hold meadows in contempt of congress, refusing to testify to the body in which he once served. he was a no-show today citing trump's claims of executive privilege as the reason he is stone walling the committee. after giving them lots of documents. the january 6 committee has not commented on that lawsuit. when we come back, the surgeon general is warning of a growing mental health crisis facing our nation's young people. on capitol hill, tough questions about the harmful effects social media is having on our kids. all that after a quick break. h. all that after a quick break
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2019. things were already bad, and now it's much worse. social media obviously plays a part. the surgeon general, here's part of what he had to say. >> one of his recommendations is to limit social media usage. do you agree with it? >> senator, two things -- >> answer the question. >> senator, i believe parents should be able to set limits for their children. i believe a parent knows best. that's why we're currently developing parental controls that lets parents see how long their teens spend on instagram, and they're able to set limits. >> that's not an answer.
a therapist in new york city told me today, i asked her about this report, she said that she cannot find psychiatric care for her patients who need it. this is something that we should have more time to talk about next time. but the kids are not all right. >> yeah, i remember speaking to the head of children's hospital colorado earlier this summer when they declared a state of emergency with kids coming into the e.r., many with suicide attempts. covid was terrible for children, but in a way it was even harder coming out of covid, as kids moved from lockdown back into communities, being away from socializing. he said that was almost when the most dangerous time was. the hospitals in colorado, the
e.r. departments for pediatrics are overwhelmed, they're just not set up to handle it. they had to declare a state of emergency. this is really tough on kids. >> and eugene, we don't have a lot of fluency in talking about mental health. it's stigmatized at all levels. pediatricians are sometimes dealing with parents in denial, schools that are overwhelmed, testing kids, and dealing with quarantines. i wonder if you have any sense that this is ticking up among the priorities in policymakers in washington. >> i think the pandemic showed all of us that the kinds of things that we're talking about, isolation, not being able to see people, that's not what humans are made for. we're made to be social creatures. the white house is taking this very seriously, and also on capitol hill, they talked to the head of instagram about this.
one of the most interesting aspects was when the senator said they created fake accounts, 13 to 15-year-old girls, they saw hairstyle videos, went to plastic surgery and videos about weight loss. so kids are dealing with the stressors we're dealing with, and they're being funneled to dealing with it in a worse way. >> it is so flagrantly perilous that i don't understand the debate in washington around social media. >> i listened to most of it today. you don't often get senator amy klobuchar and ted cruz on the same page, but you had republicans and democrats equally just grilling the head
of instagram, saying we need -- you need to give us the data, you need to take responsibility, you need to be held accountable. it was a brutal hearing from instagram's point of view, but they weren't letting them off the hook. and many senators said, we've had many hearings, but not much action. they're adamant that if instagram won't regulate itself, as amy klobuchar, putting huge amounts of efforts of marketing their product to children in instead of making it safer, then congress will have to take action. >> and the surgeon general report, it's stunning. and i see, i watched dr. jill
biden's schedule, she spends so much time traveling to schools and doing kids' vaccinations. i wonder if there's any possibility that she's looking at taking on a bigger portfolio around kids' mental health. >> i think so. i think, you know, she's talked about mental health when it comes to military families and folks in the military, veterans. i think this is a perfect place for her to deal with it, as a grandmother, as someone who has watched as kids struggle with this. it's a place where she wants to work, and also the second gentleman as well. i think we'll see more as we move forward. >> thank you for spending time with us on the story. it's super important. a quick break for us. we'll be right back. a quick bres we'll be right back. this is my granddaughter...she's cute like her grandpa.
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thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these truly -- starts right now. hi, ari. >> thank you very much. welcome to "the beat," everyone. our top story is the new heat on mark meadows. the insurrection probe moving toward holding him in criminal contempt. there was brief talk of cooperation, but it's turning into a clash. we've learned that meadows is filing a civil suit, and the committee says there's no choice but to advance criminal contempt proceedings. so if congress moves