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tv   Katy Tur Reports  MSNBC  December 10, 2021 11:00am-12:00pm PST

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strengthen democratic institutions, end of quote, to cooperate. to cooperate on transparency, human rights, economic development, and strengthening democracy throughout the region. this is the sort of inspiring commitment to partnerships that i hope we'll see more of in the next overaction. i hope that even of our countries will mention the results of their efforts to we can report back on our progress at a second summit for democracy next year. and i hope to welcome each of you in person. for our part, as i said yesterday, the united states is committed to strengthening our democracy at home and to work with parties around the world, around the globe, to prove that democracies can deliver for people on issues that matter most to them. here at home, that means working to make real the full promise of america, including by enacting both the freedom to vote act and the john lewis voting rights advancement act, because what's
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true around the world is also true in the united states. the sacred right to vote, to vote freely. the right to have your vote counted is the threshold liberty for democracy, for every democracy. with it, anything is possible. without it, virtually nothing is possible. we have to come together and get it done. and we will. the united states will continue efforts to beat the pandemic, working with the world health organization, covax, and other partners to save lives, vaccinate the world against covid-19, and advance health security for everyone. we're leveraging our democratic partnerships like the g7 and the quad to amplify our shared capacity to produce and deliver vaccines and to help get shots in arms for everyone, everywhere. we're taking on the climate crisis with a seriousness and urgency, responding with moral clarity we're seeing coming from young people around the world.
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we're affirming the democratic values that are at the heart of our international system and which have been the foundational elements for decades of global growth and prosperity. and we're committed, we're committed to working with all who share those values, to shape the rules of the road that are going to govern our progress in the 21st century, including on issues of cybersecurity and emerging technologies so that future generations continue to reap the benefits of liberty and democracy as we have. the final message i want to impart as we close out this summit for democracy is that we know how hard the work is that's going to be ahead of us. but we also know we are up to the challenge. as i've said before, and as this gathering has demonstrated, the democratic world is everywhere. autocracies can never extinguish the ember of liberty that burns in the hearts of people around the world, in every portion of
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the world. it knows no borders. it speaks every language. it lives in anticorruption activists, human rights defenders, journalists, peaceful protesters, and the front lines of the struggle all around the world. it lives in town council meetings, union elections, daily small acts that occur around the globe. whenever people come together to solve problems and to bridge differences. and all the ways civil society empowers individuals to have a direct say on issues that impact on their lives, impact on them personally. and so defending democracy demands a whole of society effort, requires all of us. the leaders of governments, we have a responsibility to listen to our citizens, to strengthen the guardrails of democracy, and to drive reforms that are going to make transparent accountable governance more resilient against the buffeting forces of autocracy. those who want the naked pursuit
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of power ahead of the public good, we have to work together with the private sector to combat corruption, to build more equitable economies where more people can share the benefits. we have to empower our citizens to hold all of us accountable to the highest ideals and to make sure our actions align with our words. as we close out the first gathering, let's together reaffirm our determination that the future will belong to those who embrace human dignity, not those who trample it. to unleash the potential of their people, not those who stifle it. and who give their people the ability to breathe free, not those who seek to suffocate their people with an iron hand. you know, as the great irish poet sheamus haney wrote, hope and history rhyme.
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that tidal wave doesn't come out of nowhere. it doesn't happen by accident. it happens because people unleash the irresistible power of their dreams and determination. democracy is what makes it possible for hope and history to rhyme. and today, hope and history lie in our hands. so let's raise up our ambitions and rise up to meet the challenges together. thank you and i look forward to following through in the next year on all the commitments we're making. thank you. ♪♪ >> they certainly made that music loud enough to drown out any questions. i'm katy tur. it's 2:05, and what you were watching there was joe biden's democracy summit. joining me now is nbc news white house correspondent monica alba.
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monica, if you were just tuning into this or reading about it in the news, might wonder what sort of standing does the united states have to hold this right now, given the threats that we're facing at home. i wonder, has the white house addressed any of that? >> reporter: absolutely, katy. and the president even alluded to that yesterday, when he kicked off this summit, saying he knows that countries around the world are looking to america for guidance and leadership, and that it has been a bit of a complicated effort at times. that was of course a more oblique reference to the issues you're discussing. but the larger black drop of all -- backdrop of all of this was discussing the importance of democracy. of course there are notable countries that weren't invited and then even some more notable ones that did make the cut and that was the subject of some criticism over the course of this two-day summit that did need to take place virtually because of the pandemic. but the president really talking today, you heard him there, announcing there will be a
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followup next year where he hopes to make progress on some of these issues. we do have to remember here as as the president of course ex tolls the values of democracy, there are issues in our own country in terms of getting voting rights through congress, something that hasn't happened yet. so there is this push and pull that the white house acknowledges in terms of domestic priorities that are at odds with what the president is talking about on the world stage. he said he wanted to remind our allies of what he felt was undone by the prior administration, and he wanted to reaffirm, again, the irony, though, to your larger point, there is so much that america is contending with, not just on social issues but larger ones, that of course. >> monica, let me interrupt you, i'm so sorry for this, but president biden is taking questions. let's listen. >> reporter: -- the build back
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better bill? >> i don't know the answer to that. i'm going to be talking to them at the beginning of the week. and i think if you look at what most people are saying, most of the economists are saying, this build back better bill is not going to increase inflation, it will diminish inflation. it has a negative impact on inflation. it doesn't raise inflation. but that's hard for people to think about right now, because inflation is up and there's a direct correlation in most people's minds, why is there inflation, well, government's spending money. that's not the reason for the inflation. the reason for the inflation is we have a supply chain problem that's really severe and it's causing a significant increase in prices in things that are in fact hard to get access to. because at the bottom, the bottom of it all, is covid. covid has had a serious impact on the ability to produce a whole lot of necessary products, particularly those imported from the pacific and other places. i'll take your question.
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>> reporter: mr. president, what's your response to the supreme court leaving the texas abortion law in place and what specifically are you going to do? >> my problem is i haven't seen -- i just got back, i just walked in from delivering bob dole's eulogy, so i haven't seen the report. i'll take a look at what the supreme court said. i don't know what it said, because for the last three years i've been involved with bob dole's eulogy and funeral. but i will have a comment. >> reporter: the law remains intact. >> i'm not going to comment on something that i don't know yet. but i will comment. thank you all so very much. >> joe biden right there, slightly addressing the other day's big news which is what the supreme court ruled today, that the abortion providers were allowed to sue in texas against this new law that allowed everyday people to sue anybody who facilitated an abortion. the supreme court not striking down the law but saying you can challenge it, which providers had not had the ability to do
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before that. monica alba, you are back with us. i'm sorry for interrupting a little bit earlier. but again, in addressing democracy, we're facing so many issues at home. beyond the rhetoric of what he said there during this summit, i wonder what the white house is doing. i know that part of it is getting the voting rights act passed in congress. but without changing the filibuster, it's just not going to happen. >> reporter: that's exactly right, katy. and that's why there's so much pressure on the white house by many activists and even many allies and democratic lawmakers who have asked the president to do more, to step in here and act not just on something like this but also the issue of application reform. we've seen time and time again the things that the president, the white house would like to see accomplished and at the end of the day they have to make a legislative wish list on what they're going to prioritize, what's they're going to go after, what's realistic and what they can look back, they believe, in the rearview mirror when say we're happy we put the
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emphasis on this. right now, frankly, that was things like the infrastructure plan and still the president's social spending and climate plan which the president says he would like to get done in the next couple of weeks. it's going to be an uphill climb on capitol hill in order to see that happen. that's just the reality of trying to legislate with such thin majorities and splits in the congress, in the house and senate. that's what the house will point you to. i think something else the president just spoke to, katy, that illustrates the struggle and why there is so much attention on things like the economy, the uneven recovery, is this issue of soaring inflation. of course the white house has to be dealing with that. they want to also deal with things like voting rights and police reform, a pathway to citizenship, codifying roe v. wade, all these things that ideally the president, if he could have looked at this first year, would have wanted to accomplish, but also campaign promises that remain unfilled as
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he pursues other ones. >> inflation continues to be one of the biggest issues that americans are complaining about right now. and one of the reasons why joe biden's poll numbers are so low at the moment. monica alba, thank you so much. let's go back to the public service under way right now for the late senator bob dole at the world war ii memorial in washington. this is general milley who has just finished speaking. let's go back in. [ silence ]
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[ trumpet plays taps ]
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>> what you saw right there was bob dole's wife, senator elizabeth dole, and his daughter, robin dole, along with general mark milley, laying a wreath in honor of the late senator, the late veteran, bob dole. and now you see them having pleasantries with tom hanks, who spoke a little bit earlier. certainly a moving ceremony, a moving public portion to the celebration of this man's life. joining me now is nbc news white house correspondent mike memoli who is at the world war ii memorial in washington where the ceremony is being held. daily beast columnist and presidential historian jonathan
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alter and retired four-star general barry mccaffrey. everybody, welcome. general, i want to begin with you. it's been a day of really moving tributes to the late senator, topped off with this very emotional ceremony here at the world war ii memorial. how are you going to remember the man? >> you know, a lot of us, the vietnam veterans group, love the world war ii generation. magnificent people. both senator dole and senator inouye were frequent visitors to walter reed when i was a patient. i had my left arm almost shot off. both of them were there periodically. i got to know senator dole. just a superb human being. sort of a funny story, during the presidential campaign, dole versus clinton, i was part of the clinton cabinet, and i was asked at a ceremony, a big
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meeting in miami, all the cabinet up there, janet reno and others, onstage, what did i think of senator dole. i said he's a personal hero. and the campaign staff was outraged. but not president clinton. it was just a comment on their mutual respect, which dole generated wherever he was. so this is a public servant to be admired, learned from, and respected. >> you know, jon, as the general was telling us that story, i don't want it to sound cliche, but it does feel like this is just another moment where we're seeing the end of an era, another death of an era. you have bill clinton saying, you know, he wasn't upset that general mccaffrey called him a hero. and we seem to be living in a time where all of that sort of respect for the other side regardless of being in a competition with them,
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regardless of not agreeing with them in policy, all that respect seems to be gone. >> one does get that impression, katy, that this is the [ inaudible ]. >> unfortunately i think we've lost jon there. we'll try to get him back. let's go to mike memoli, mike, same question to you. >> that was certainly something, katy, that struck me as we listened to some of the remarks throughout the services over the last two days, especially, of course, from president biden. somebody who served with bob dole as a member of the senate for 25 years. in his remarks, his eulogy today, the president tried to make clear in his view what bob dole's life stood for. it stood for honor, it stood for dignity. it stood for this idea that you could are both a fierce partisan as bob dole was on behalf of his republican party and his conservative principles but still be a patriot. that's something that was obviously lost as we see this
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greatest generation now largely moving on, where biden spoke of the travels he had with bob dole, including, movingly, going with him to italy where he was able to see where he had served, where he had been injured. and that kind of experience, those relationships, are no longer sort of a part of the senate anymore. but as we see at the end of the official sort of two days of services here in washington, one way to think of the ceremony we just saw at the world war ii memorial, the laying in state at the capitol, the lying in theater, there's not a huge crowd here, but many veterans. tom hanks spoke about how, of all the monuments and memorials in washington, it was one person, bob dole, who made this world war ii memorial come into being. there were 16 million americans
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who served in world war ii, 405,000 who gave the ultimate sacrifice. as we talk about bob dole's legacy, his service in uniform, his service as a senator, this ceremony noted his service as somebody who would simply come here to honor those who like him had served in world war ii, only according to the latest statistics, some 250,000 of those 16 million world war ii veterans still with us. >> the fun and poignant story about bob dole, right after he lost the presidential election to president bill clinton, he was invited to the white house in 1997, just months after, to get the house medal of freedom award, the ceremony. he said, i, robert j. dole, do solemnly swear, then he said, oops, sorry, wrong speech, i had a dream i would be here receiving something from the president but i thought it would be the front door key. it's funny. and jon, i know we have you back, that's a funny, humorous
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anecdote that shows that even in the face of losing a presidential election, he could still go to the white house and show some -- not only some humor but some humility. >> that's what those of us in the press really loved about the guy, even when we concluded that he probably wasn't going to make it as president, he was miscast in that role. he was just a lot of fun to cover because he had this biting wit. and one time he came back from the white house where ford, carter, and nixon had gathered, and he called them see no evil, hear no evil, and evil. and you could pretty much get a chuckle out of every conversation with bob dole. but i'm also just very moved by this most recent commemoration at the world war ii memorial. i went there with my late father
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not long after it opened on an honor flight. he had seen a lot of action in world war ii, and it was one of the most memorable experiences of his life and my life. it wouldn't have been possible without bob dole. and i think there are just all kinds of people across this country who he touched. whether they were kept afloat with the food stamp program that he worked on or social security that he got renewed or many other things that he got accomplished by working across the aisle, thousands and thousands of people whom he touched and they might not even know it. >> jonathan alter, general barry mccaffrey, mike memoli, gentlemen, thank you very much for buttoning this up today on quite an emotional and moving day honoring the late bob dole. and we'll be right back. (vo) t-mobile for business helps small business owners prosper during their most important time of year.
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battle lines are being drawn at the supreme court over abortion. in a rare friday ruling the court at first appeared to give a win to texas abortion clinics. in an 8-1 vote the court granted abortion clinics the right to sue over the most restrictive abortion law in the nation. an outright ban after six weeks, before most women even know they're pregnant. but the more we dig into the details, the more alarming it is for abortion rights activists.
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the court left the ban in place for now and while it ruled texas licensing officials can be sued, it dismissed claims against court judges and clerks and closed the door on any action by the justice department. chief justice john roberts wrote that the purpose of the texas law is to, quote, nullify this court's rulings on abortion and if the legislators of the several states may at will nullify people's rights, the constitution itself becomes a solemn mockery, strong words from the chief justice there. justice sotomayor writes, the court should have put an end to this madness months ago. it failed to do so then and it fails again today. joining me now is nbc news justice correspondent pete williams. the president and ceo of the center for reproductive rights,
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nancy northrop and msnbc legal analyst maya wiley. chief justice john roberts, those are super strong words from him. >> right, and he joined with the court's three liberals in saying the lawsuit should have been able to go ahead against court clerks and the texas attorney general. step back a little bit. what was this case not about? it was not about the right to abortion. it really wasn't also about whether the texas law should be struck down. the only question here is whether lawsuits can proceed against the law in federal court in texas. and yes, the supreme court said -- it left the door narrowly open to go ahead with those lawsuits. but by narrowing, grieving some of the -- depriving ammunition these groups can have, in some sense tying their hands behind their back, it will make it more difficult to prevail in federal court. the vote was 8-1, justice thomas
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dissenting on whether they could sue the state licensing board who licenses abortion clinics. it's a partial defeat as well for texas, because texas had said there's no way to sue over this in federal court. they had thought they had effectively sealed the law off from legal challenge. they lost on that too. as you said, the supreme court did say that texas can continue to enforce the law, and that is why it's a mixed victory for the challengers. now, i should point out that this is all about federal court. and there are separate lawsuits working their way through the texas courts in state court. and just yesterday, a texas state court judge said the structure of this law is unconstitutional. but he didn't issue an injunction banning enforcement because of the technicalities of the way the lawsuit was structured. there are sort of two tracks now that abortion rights advocates can pursue to try to get this law struck down. >> let me ask you this, pete, to clarify for me, because i was
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under the impression that justice kavanaugh was a little bit iffy on this because he was saying if you allow a law like this to stand where you can sue individuals, you can hold them accountable, liable, then other constitutional rights can come under that as well, say, one state decides that they think owning a gun should be illegal, so they deputize individuals for -- to sue -- >> to sue for a million dollars or $100,000 or whatever it was. >> exactly. >> you're right, he did express those concerns during argument. but there's nothing from him today in any of these opinions raising that concern. you know, the concern that other states might use this model that texas has put together to try to challenge other constitutional rights, that concern is expressed only by the dissenters, by justice roberts writing for the four, and by justice sotomayor writing for the other two liberals. they're the ones who are worried about that. you don't hear anything about
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that in the majority opinion written by neil gorsuch. >> i just wonder if they assume no other state would try to abridge the right in that way to own a gun, or free speech. but i guess it's interesting to leave that door open. maya, what do you make of the way that they ruled? >> well, you know, i think pete nailed it in terms of his analysis. the larger -- if we pull back, the larger issue here, and justice sotomayor says this very strongly, and chief justice roberts as well, is, we have essentially let a statute that is designed, is designed to prevent federal courts from giving people the opportunity to have a remedy when a state is actively trying to prevent the enforcement of a constitutional right. that's really by and large what's happened here. and the narrowing of the access to the courts is really very
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disturbing, not because i agree, it's good news there's something moving forward, but at its root, that is essentially the precedent the court has now created. and justice sotomayor, and importantly, we heard this in the mississippi argument, you know, it was also raising this flag about civil rights and other constitutional rights, because if you remember, one of the things that we heard, and i think justice alito in particular was making this point, it's like, oh, you know, this is no big deal because this is no different, we strike down precedent all the time in it violates black people's civil rights, like plessy v. ferguson. it gets repeated here in justice gorsuch's opinion as, well, look, it's no big deal that we're now allowing people to go after the state attorney general because it's just like those civil rights laws where we are basically letting people sue to
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vindicate race discrimination. well, guess what, there's a big difference between blocking people's ability to vindicate their constitutional rights versus creating bounty hunters to get in the way of people exercising their constitutional rights. >> nancy, your organization is part of this lawsuit. you're also part of the mississippi lawsuit -- or not this specific lawsuit but part of the suits against the texas laws. talk to me about what it's been like in texas since this law has been put in place. it's been about a hundred days since abortion is basically illegal in texas past six weeks. >> yes, i actually -- i think this decision will go down as one of the most disgraceful decisions in supreme court history. this law has been in effect for 100 days. and, you know, our clients, the providers in texas, the staff members of clinics, they're absorbing today this really, really horrific decision by the
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supreme court to abandon, really abandon its duty to protect the constitutional rights. it is allowing the state of texas to nullify its decisions that there is a right to abortion until viability and this is a six-week ban. what it's meant on the ground is that women and pregnant people in texas have had to leave the state. and right now, there are backups of four weeks in the state of oklahoma to get an appointment, impacting oklahomans as well as texans. six-week backup in mississippi to get appointments to clinics. it's just unconscionable. our clients are having to turn away people who are coming to them for health care. and it is just devastating. and what the court did today, yes, it did leave a shred of our case that we will continue to pursue. we'll look at every legal option to get this law blocked. but in the meantime, it leaves women in texas, pregnant people in texas, to be absolutely in a state of panic and disarray
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about when this is going to end. it is absolutely unconscionable. >> pete, i'm sorry if you've already totally answered this, but i'm still a little unclear. what logic did the majority use here in deciding to rule in this way? what are they standing on? >> well, what they basically say is that the original lawsuit was filed against -- you know, the problem here is, texas has structured this law to say, well, you know, texas officials, we don't enforce it, it's all those people who file the private lawsuits. so you can't sue us. so that was the big question in this case, who do you sue. and the lawsuit originally named state court judges and state court clerks among others. the court's majority said there's longstanding supreme court precedents that say except with very narrow circumstances which they didn't find here, you can't sue judges because they don't really enforce anything, they're sort of referees,
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they're not litigants, they're not adverse people to a lawsuit. the claim against that was, well, it's the mere filing of the lawsuit that's the trouble here because abortion clinics can be repeatedly sued over and over and over again by different parties, and it's the filing of the lawsuit that's what gets you. and that's why the challengers had hoped to be able to do that. but the court said, no, you can't sue judges and they were unanimous on that, by the way. and you also can't sue supreme court clerks. and they also said that you can't sue the attorney general. this is the majority in the 5-4 split, because he really doesn't have any enforcement mechanism here either, he doesn't really do anything to enforce the law. >> pete, why wouldn't they go after just the heart of this, though? it does essentially abridge a constitutional right. >> so there's two questions here. who do you sue, and then what do you claim. the what do you claim part is the easy part. it's unconstitutional. it stops abortion after six
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weeks. when the supreme court has said a state can't do that before viability which is 23 to 24 weeks. it's the who -- it's the getting through the door. who do you sue? and if you do sue and you win, who do you tell not to -- how do you get an injunction, who do you tell not to enforce it? that's what this lawsuit was all about. >> pete williams, thank you so much. it's a complicated but i'm happy you're here to help break it down, at least for me. nancy and maya, thank you guys as well. i know this is going to be a topic we'll be talking about a lot and i hope you both come back on to discuss it. i also want to hear about texas specifically and the effect on women down there. ahead, a judge rejects donald trump's bid to keep the white house record secret. what that means in the investigation into january 6th. . were delayed when the new kid totaled his truck. timber... fortunately, they were covered by progressive,
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documents. the former president will likely ask the supreme court to overturn the ruling. a supreme court that includes three justices appointed by donald trump. this court defeat for the former president follows a preemptive legal strike from his white house chief of staff. mark meadows has now sued house speaker nancy pelosi and the january 6th committee in federal court in an attempt to void two subpoenas. joining me now is punchbowl news founder and msnbc political contributor jake sherman and back with me is msnbc legal analyst maya wiley. maya, welcome back to quickly. jake, let's talk about the subpoenas. who is the january 6th committee going after now? >> two names come out to me as being very important. that's brian jack, the former president's political director, who is now coincidentally the political director for kevin mccarthy, house minority leader, a very important person in mccarthy's orbit, mccarthy's political animal, so to speak.
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and max miller was a very close aide to donald trump and max miller is now running for congress in ohio, somebody who donald trump has endorsed. there are a bunch of names, i think you had them on the screen a second ago, but those are two names that jumped out to me just because of their current station in american politics. i mean, having -- one of the things that we've wondered all along and that we've been reporting on trying to figure out is, will this committee subpoena people like kevin mccarthy. but here they are going after jack, not because of his ties to mccarthy, but because of his ties to donald trump. he was running the president's political operation, the former president's political operation at the time of the january 6th attack. and miller, who is now running for congress in ohio. >> okay. so let's talk about donald trump now. maya, losing this case, he's going to be forced to turn over the legal documents or i'm sorry, the documents. he won't have executive privilege unless he goes to the
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supreme court. we were just talking about the supreme court. what's your prediction on whether they take it up, number one, and full two, if they did, how would they rule? >> certainly i know how they should rule. they should not take it up. they may take it up. if they do take it up, i think it's going to be largely on the grounds of supreme court decisions close to this particular issue. when president nixon had the investigation of the watergate break-in. the difference is this involves a former president, not a sitting president. the statute that enabled president biden to say i looked at this, i think it's in the best interests of the country that we not assert this privilege, this fairly weak privilege relatively to all the others, because while we do something have to protect communications between a president and advisers, what
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we're protecting is the president, the position, not the person. so it would be if they wanted to weigh in on the extent to which this privilege that they haven't talked about a lot extends beyond the case with nixon. the president looked at the statute and decided it should be released. that's the end of it. there is no question that in the context of the violence that happened, particularly in the subpoenas we're seeing right now, very specific and tailored to what happened, who paid for it, what did the president know about it, what did he ask to be done about it, is really directly related to the power of congress under the constitution. so that's the outcome that we should see. whether we will, we'll have to wait. >> so the committee has already seen nearly 300 witnesses, jake. 250 tips, according to liz
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cheney. 30,000 documents. that's quite a lot of information. any indication on what the committee believes they know at this point? >> it's difficult to know what they know, katy. but it's shocking to me what they've already gotten. they already have presentations about the administration or people adjacent to the administration's plans on january 6th. mark meadows has turned over his cellphone, his text messages, something that i would imagine, because he's pretty active, he's a pretty active communicator, so to speak, or he was when he was chief of staff and a member of congress. if i were donald trump or somebody adjacent to donald trump, something i would be worried about, the people that are not getting subpoenaed, katy, the people who are voluntarily cooperating with this committee and voluntarily handing over information. the subpoenas are only the tip of the iceberg. there are people who cut deals to not be subpoenaed if they
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cooperate voluntarily. and the important thing is, and maya can talk about this, an investigation of this nature is mapping out the information flow, who knows what, what happened on these days. and they do have people that are cooperating, who are probably -- not probably, but definitely lower level than mark meadows but have information about what the president, what the chief of staff, what his senior aides were doing, what they said, what they knew, what their plans were, so on and so forth, who have not gotten those subpoenas, who are, again, cooperating voluntarily. that is incredibly important. these are people who served in the administration, who served at senior levels, who have nothing to hide and are helping out. >> there's much information so we can figure out who's telling the truth. jake sherman, thank you so much, maya wiley, thank you as well. up next, jacob soboroff takes us inside a maximum security prison where art brought hope. is struggling to mr type 2 diabetes knocking you out of your zone? lowering your a1c with once-weekly ozempic®
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a documentary "paper and glue" explores the work of a french artist, j.r. he uses photography, paper, and glue to give voices to the voiceless. he does this from a prison yard. you'll see his 2019 visit to one of the most notorious supermax prisons in california where his installation proved transformative for both the prison and its inmates. our own jacob soboroff went to that same prison to see what's changed since j.r.'s visit. so tell us. >> reporter: it's a pretty amazing story, and i didn't know anything -- i mean, i knew a little bit about j.r. after seeing this film. what an incredible individual, and what a really awesome movie. i think our viewers are going to find it fascinating. j.r. has been practicing this
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hybrid of guerrilla and poster art for many years, but we get a look inside his process and the results. one of those places is inside one of the most dangerous prisons in california, and we went inside. hope is a rare commodity inside california correctional institution to one of the roughest of the state's 35 prisons. >> this is up there on the top five of one of the most violent yards in the system. >> reporter: lieutenant eric led me onto a level four yard, maximum security. lieutenant, this is the yard, but where is everybody? >> unfortunately, just before we got here, there was an incident. >> reporter: this trail of blood, the result of a stabbing likely ordered by one of the racially or ethnically-based gangs that dictate much of what happens inside these walls according to the lieutenant. >> especially in these level four yards, it's very controlled and manipulated by gangs. >> reporter: the odds that blood is because of gang violence is pretty high? >> yeah.
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>> reporter: what are the odds of you seeing a white and a latino or a black person hanging out together in this yard? >> hanging out? that would be pretty rare. >> reporter: as part of the effort to break up the segregation, the prison did something dramatic. in 2019, it invited the french artist j.r. onto the same yard to bring together inmates to work on several murals, including this one, in which they posed together visible only from the sky. the project's featured in the new msnbc film documentary "paper and glue." when we were on the yard last week, still visible was another mural j.r. and the inmates created. there's blood on the floor and right beyond it is something that says there's a way out. >> many who were involved in this program have gone to our level three. >> reporter: a transfer to level three or lower security was possible due to avoiding trouble while incarcerated. the transfers provide a pact of parole in a system that's been badly overcrowded. i was showed a gym that used to house inmates. >> the entire floor was full.
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>> reporter: to be able to release more inmates, the prison system began to stress rehabilitation programs like educational and vocational classes. >> we have this facility providing massive opportunities for the incarcerated men who have a desire to change their life and the way they do things. >> reporter: two of these three inmates transferred to this yard after working with j.r. all three are serving life sentences. on the level four yard, would you three be hanging out together? >> no. >> no. >> how come? >> politics would separate us. >> does politics mean you can't have a white guy standing in between two latino guys? >> you wouldn't be able to sit at a table with them or play sports with them. >> what did you think when j.r. showed up here? >> let's do it. the most incredible thing was him treating us with humanity and just showing us that we could work together side by side, and to be apart of a project so big, that experience itself helped me visualize myself as a -- as a member of
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society again. >> you got a big smile on your face right now. >> just remembering it, it's a fond memory. >> reporter: i think people on the outside look at a prison and they think about the people that might be here as murderers, rapists, armed robbers, and would say, why do you want to give them progressive, positive programming? >> most of these guys are going to get out of the some point. what do we want to breed? a less productive person or a more productive person? >> reporter: and that's exactly what you are going to see in this film. "paper and glue" spends time inside the prison with these inmates and in the film, you see where j.r. has been all over the world, including at the u.s./mexico border. you see him in rio, and the suburbs of paris. this airs tonight at 10:00 on msnbc, and katy, i know you like movies and you're going to love this. >> it's a friday night, and an interesting piece. it's hard to go to a supermax prison and think about the things that put those people
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into that prison. >> a lot of bad stuff. >> and then trying to find a way to even if they're never getting out, rehabilitate them emotionally while they're there. >> and j.r. sort of has this mantra, the process is the art, and at this prison, the process was working with these people, many of whom would never, ever interact with each other or get out of the prison in order to make this project and you see them do that down at the border, in rio, in paris. it's extraordinary. >> even if you don't know about the movie, i'm sure you've seen his art and it's amazing. thank you for bringing us this story. >> you got it. >> always good to see you and nice to have you in new york. that premieres tonight at 10:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc. we also have a bit of news about senator bob dole, late senator bob dole whose casket is now at joint base andrews. he will be departing and going to kansas, his hometown for funerals there before being brought back to washington. his final resting place will be
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at arlington national cemetery. former senator bob dole was 98 years old. my nunormal? fewer asthma attacks with nucala. a once-monthly add-on injection for severe eosinophilic asthma. nucala reduces eosinophils, a key cause of severe asthma. nucala is not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your doctor about nucala.
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right now on msnbc reports, the new report out today on this apparently inflation nation affecting people who live coast to coast. virtually everything you buy getting more expensive, with inflation last month soaring to levels not seen since ronald reagan. we're live at the white house with what the president just said as wall street seems to be doing all right in this last hour of trading because investors thought inflation was going to go up more than it did. we'll be joined live one-on-one with this in a minute. weaver also live in texas where the supreme court is


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