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tv   Deadline White House  MSNBC  December 13, 2021 1:00pm-3:00pm PST

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are you tired of clean clothes that just don't smell clean? downy unstopables in-wash scent boosters keep your laundry smelling fresh way longer than detergent alone. if you want laundry to smell fresh for weeks, make sure you have downy unstopables in-wash scent boosters. hi there, everyone. it is 4:00 in new york. welcome to monday. we are just hours away from a vote by the house select committee on january 6th to recommend contempt charge force trump's exwhite house chief of staff, mr. mark meadows. a vote is set to come 24 hours after that committee jumped a bombshell of a report detailing their case of contempt which includes details of descriptions of some of the potentially
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evidence meadows already turned over to the committee, things like they major revelations as detailed in text messages and emails provided to the committee, that's according to the january 6th panel. quote, mr. meadows sent an email to an individual about the events on january 6th and said, the national guard will be present to protect pro-trump people. and that many more would be available on stand by. and this, quote, mr. meadows received text messages and emails regarding apparent efforts to encourage republican legislators in certain states to send alternate slafts electors to congress. it is a plan which one member of congress acknowledged was highly controversial, to which meadows responded, life it. meadows responded to a similar message by saying, we are, and in another such message by saying, yes, have team on it. the january 6th committee also in the process of reviewing a 38-page power point. according to the "new york times" the power point details what they describe as extreme
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plans to overturn the 2020 election adding this, the document recommended that trump declare a national emergency to delay the certification the election results. and included a claim that china and venezuela had obtained control over the voting infrastructure in a majority of states. "washington post" adds this worn reporting quote a retired u.s. army colonel who circulated a proposal to challenge the 2020 election including by declaring a national security emergency and seizing paper ballots said he visited the white house on multiple occasions after the election, spoke with donald trump's chief of staff maybe eight to ten times, and briefed several members of congress on the eve of the january 6th riot but the post adds george per will injury said on friday there was no indications meadows did anything with the document after receiving it by email. he says this, quote, we produced to it the committee because it was not privileged, that's according to terwilliger. a meadows spokesman named ben
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williamson declined to comment. this mountain of evidence provided to the committee by former white house chief of staff mark meadows despite his ongoing attempts to obstruct the january 6th investigation is where we start today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. luke broad water is here, his buy line is on the "new york times" reporting we read from. ben rhodes is also here, former deputy national security advise or to president obama and former senator claire mccaskill joins us. luke, i start with you, and your reporting. tell me -- i think to someone who isn't in trump world and who suspect a lawyer it is confounding that some of the most devastating evidence about what has been turned over about what was the white house chief of staff was into, if you will is now approximate to face a criminal contempt of congress referral. what is at play. mr. terwilliger is not a newby.
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he's not a yule joule. he's not of that ilk of the law. what's going on? >> so, it is hard to understand exactly what their motivations are, but according to mr. terwilliger, their strategy was to participate as much as possible with the committee to avoid a contempt charge while still respecting the assertion of executive privilege by mark meadows's former boss, former president trump. so mark meadows is stuck, perhaps, between a rock and a hard place here. he doesn't want to offense or alienate his former boss who has said not to cooperate with the committee and has exerted executive privilege at the same time he had for weeks or even months been attempting to avoid potential concept of congress charges. he turned over documents including some information they found very useful.
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you highlighted some of the latest revelations from those documents last night, including this email in which mark meadows says they want to have the national guard on stand by to protect pro-trump people. >> from who? who would they have been trying to protect them from? >> i assume, in his view, antifa or black lives matter or left-wing protesters who would be sort of attacking their people. i -- that's my understanding what have the context of that email may have been. i haven't seen the whole email myself. i don't know who he was communicating with. i only know what the committee put forward there. but you can see, they do have some useful information here. and so -- but what they have now is a ton of questions based off of these documents. what was the context of that? why did he only want to protect protrump people and not pro-biden people? so those are the types of things
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they wanted to question him about. and all of a sudden, the day before his deposition he informed the committee no wasn't going to participate, wasn't going to sit for the deposition and wasn't going to turn over any more documents. now they are in a back and forth. they have a vote tonight. we assume he will be referred to full house for a contempt of congress charge. then it will be up to the justice department to see whether he will face an indictment. >> i want to go through everything that we know was turned over. i don't want to rush through any of it. i want to go through that power point which i know has been circulating on line before it was reported by this news organization, by your news organization. but you raised the national guard. i don't want to gloss over any of this. and i want to bring claire and ben into this. this is from -- i haven't given viewers of this program homework that takes more than three minutes since the brad rachbs berylberger call. 90 minutes that will change your
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life. people should read this report. if you want to understand how corrupted the federal government was at the highest level on january 6th, read what mark meadows was awash in. this is from that 51-page contempt report from the january 6th select committee. mr. med oesz reportedly spoke to kash patel who was then the chief of staff to former acting secretary of defense chris mill, he quote, non-stop throughout the day of january 6th. among other things, meadows apparently knows if and when trump was engaged in discussions regarding the national guard's response to the capitol riot. it is a point that is contested about which meadows, the select committee spoke publicly on national telephones after trump left office. ben, one of the enduring mysteries -- and there is a real cluster over at the pentagon about the time line for 9/11 and about this question of the national guard. larry hogan said he offered troops. it is very unclear despite
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extraordinary reporting from luke and his colleagues, the reporters -- i have asked jonathan swan, reporters a the "washington post" who was functioning as the country's commander in chief. can't get a clear answer. whether it was trump or pence who called the national guard. now we know from this report the white house chief of staff was talking to kash patel, the pentagon chief of staff, quote, non-stop on january 6th. what do you think they were talking about? >> well, nicolle, when you have document production like this one of the things you look at is how much does it interact with some of the other questions that we already had. one of the glaring questions we have had is why there was that delay in the deployment of the national guard. what was the role of mike flynn who was in the pentagon that day? we have had reports there have been complaints that the official version that carbon monoxide out of the pentagon was covering something up, was whitewashing things. here's what's important, there
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was a complete and utter breakdown of the normal processes that these decisions get made. you have usually a clear complain of command. what emerged in this murky picture of report asking document production is a completely chaotic situation where you had civilians, you know, political figures like kash patel, installed as chief of staff over at pentagon and mark meadows kind of ad libbing it over the course of the day at the same time that the united states' capitol, the heart of american democracy, is under assault for hours and we are all watching on television and nothing is happening. what is so important about this, it is not just the question of the mob that was at the capitol, it is everything that was going on around it to encourage or enable it. you are talking about the highest responsibility people in the government to keep americans
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safe. and all we know is a lot of paper trail that suggests the normal order wasn't working and people who wanted to propagate conspiracy theories and overturn the election were in charge that day at the same time that a mob that was acting on their conspiracy theories was invading the capitol. this is why it is imperative that the story not stop here with these documents. what these documents do is point to us the questions that mark meadows needs to answer. who was in charge? why was the capitol allowed to be assaulted like that for so long? and why were the national guard troops only there to protect, quote, unquote, protouch people. i think the troops would beg to differ who take an oath to defend the american people, and why were they show slow in get willing. >> for all of our cast gagss of jeff lee clark as the coup plotter within the coup plot over at the fbi seeking to topple jeffrey rosen, the person
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who sort of discovered him, his state sponsor is meadows. the report says meadows reportedly introduced trump to d.o.j. official jeffrey clark. clark went on to recommend that he be installed as acting attorney general and that d.o.j. should send a letter to state officials urging them to take certain actions that could affect the outcome of the november 2020 election by, among other things, appointing alternate slaifts electors to cast electoral votes for trump rather than president biden. so when we talk about the d.o.j. sort of parallel track that ran parallel to mr. rosen and mr. donahue, who were on the phone with trump receiving orders to declare the election corrupt, meadows was running the clark operation at d.o.j., it would appear. >> meadows was doing everything. and, you know, nicolle, i think this is a moment where we need to step back and make sure people understand who mark
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meadows was at this time. you worked in the white house. you understand the role of the chief of staff. the chief of staff is the agent in charge the president's wishes. it is his job to do what the president wants him to do. and so what you are really seeing here in all these documents, that jump didn't want the military to respond to the capitol. trump told people to go to the capitol and fight. trump was trying to get people to overturn the election. and mark meadows was carrying out his wishes. and the idea that he is going to talk about this stuff in his book and he's going to give these documents to the committee, but then he's going to rest on some kind of privilege? privilege is waived. he -- as the committee said, he's talking to everybody about it but the committee. he's got to answer these
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questions. and it is very clear to me, and very clear to i think anyone who read those 51 pages, mark meadows was doing trump's bidding. trump wanted to steal the election, and it was mark meadows' job to make it happen. >> you know, and i think one thing that is blown up by this 51-page report, luke, is any notion that meadows was a passive actor in the coup plot. he was the protagonist. testifies coordinator. he was serving not as the chief of staff of the white house for executive branch of government protecting the united states from enemies foreign and domestic. he was the quarterback running the play to topple the democracy. it was noted that he traveled to georgia. did he any on one of the air force fleets? i mean he took a plane to georgia to try to topple the election result. he was on the call with raffensperger. and i want to read something we
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have sort of nibbled around the edges of and you have done the definitive piece of reporting on raung republican members of congress and their associations with the kinds of individuals and groups under scrutiny who have been s&ped by the 1/6 committee. this is what they would have asked meadows about. text messages sent to and from members of congress including one received from a member of congress in november 2020 regarding efforts to contact state legislators. because as meadows indicates in his text messages, quote, potus wants to chat with them, end quote, which reeffects flektsz a direct conversation with the president. we would have asked meadows about text messages sent to and from another member of congress in november 2020 in which that member indicates that, quote, the president asked him to call governor ducey, end quote, in which meadows asked for contact
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information for the attorney general of arizona to discuss allegations of election fraud. meadows is the person, sort of the general on the battlefield carrying out all of the plays of the coup. why does he have a lawyer like george terwilliger defending the person who was running the plot to overturn the election, or the result? >> right, i think you point out quite correctly how integral meadows was to each aspect of the plan to overturn the election. yet of course he's not only the chief of staff. he's the former head of the freedom caucus in congress. so he has many connections with right-wing members on the hill. so he's communicating with them. and there are some of these emails and texts in the report that was released last night where he's encouraging them, saying i love it if you are going to object. so one of them asks him does he
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have a plan for alternate slates of electors. he says, we have a team dedicated to it. at the same time he's looking for the number of the attorney general in arizona to encourage an investigation into the election there. he's flying to georgia. he's emailing the department of justice about italygate, this bonkers theory that somebody in italy is changing the election -- the election results. so each -- and then he's at trump's right hand the whole time on january 6th. so he has first-hand knowledge. he's getting emails and texts about trying to convince the president to call off the mob. so you can see how he is basically trump's right hand man through every step of this -- of this effort to try to undermine the election and keep trump in power. >> it's unbelievable. and i want to focus on something, again, this power
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point has been out there. and i think to the consternation of a lot of our viewers it hasn't been brought into focus. some of it was making sure this was the right power point. i think thanks the luke's reporting and others at msnbc we now know more about that power point. it is another what adam kinzinger described ads a blue print for a coup, as the eastman's memo. i want to go through the last slide of the power point. pence seats -- vp pence rejects the electors from states where fraud occurred causing the election to be decided by the remaining electoral votes. vp pence delays the decision in order to allow for vetting and subsequent counting of the legal paper ballots. the only way this works is if
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violence ensues. i wonder if you think this moves the committee closer toward really understanding premedication for the insurrection. >> i think absolutely it does. i want to come back to something claire said about the role of the white house chief of staff. this is arguably the second most powerful person in the united states. in part because he has ears to the president and carries out his wishes. for he to meet with the retired cole eight to ten times at the white house. that is a precious meeting. if you look at components of their plan, what they were doing in the run-up to january 6th was quite consistent with some the aspects of that power point. trying to pressure the individual states, trying to replace slates of electors. trying bet mike pence to not certify the election. across the board you cannot help but notice that in their public and what we have learned about their private action they were implementing a strategy that was
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geared towards overturning the results of the election. as kinzinger said they were running a play detailed in this power point that is nothing less than a coup. and because things were not going their way it followed there needed to be some kind of a chaos. what they wanted was to throw it into enough chaos that you could have alternate slates of electors coming in or relooking at the results in certain states or having republican officials overturning results in certain states as they tried to pressure the republican election officer to do in georgia. it is clear they were trying to overturn the legitimate and well carried out election. by the time you get to january 6th they had both stirred up that mob that went to the capitol tuld by these pir theories and the machinery of
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government had been hollowed out. bill barr will let. the only people left with mark meadows, cash pat el, like eastman, jeff lee clark, the people willing to sell the last shred of their soul for president trump to remain president of the united states. what is so powerful about this reporting is that it connects the scenes that we saw on january 6th, through the planning, through the conspiracy theorizing to the play wook they were run. and that power point is as good a symbolization of everything they did. it didn't come out of nowhere. it looks like what we all lived and heard and experienced between the election and january 6th. >> claire, everything that's been discussed is sort of in the public view because we know that the 1/6 committee knows all of this, because mark meadows, who now faces in about 2:40, a
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referral for criminal contempt the january 6th committee of congress, a body in which he served. this is distinct from the impeachment both in the house and the senate, the process we witnessed. and the mueller investigation. i recognized -- i worked with liz cheney after 9/11. when the threat was identified as a foreign threat, liz was as vigorous a defender of all of the policies put in place after 9/11. for the record, so were kevin mccarthy and mitch mcconnell. but that's not the point here. when i see mark meadows balking at phone records. it is metadata. the committee, liz cheney knows the value of just the phone numbers, who went in, who went out. the committee -- this 51-page report is about asking one of the central actors in a plot to attack the united states of
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america. and there is an aggressive tone that is now not just democrats on the committee, but democrats and liz cheney and adam kinzinger. my question for you, does this feel different, does it read different, does it feel closer than other efforts to hold trump and his inner circle accountable? >> well, i do think it's different because there is such a plethora of evidence about their efforts to overturn the election. and speaking of evidence, nicolle, this retired colonel, he -- there is no evidence that anything he said in that power point is true about fraud, about venezuela and china controlling the election machines. i mean, if there was any evidence, any facts that would support overturning the election, they would have been presented with great fanfare. i mean, if this retired colonel
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has evidence of foreign interference, where is he hiding it? why is it a deep, dark secret? why isn't he banging the table to be in front of this committee, to show the evidence. there is no evidence. and i have got to tell you, i think the military has something they need to do here. this is a retired colonel that's getting pension and benefits who willingly participated in trying to overthrow the united states of america. in my book, that's treasonous. in my book, the military should take some action and look at this colonel and figure out what in the heck did he think he was doing trying to overturn the will of the american people in a celebrated democracy? >> and what was he doing meeting with the white house chief of staff oye the ten times. >> feels like what we have is a crush of new questions. luke, ben, thank you for stating us off. luke, thank you for your reporting. claire sticks around. when we come back, the committee tonight will play out the
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involvement of that former army colonel claire is talking about, the source for that coup-making power point. one of the many members of the military who played critical roles tragically on january 6th. we will talk about rooting out extremism in our military. plus, if texas can do it, why can't california? the govern of californiaor citing the texas abortion ban in his law to stop gun sales in his state allowing citizens to sue manufacturers and anyone who sells assault rifles there. later in the program, ayman joins us about his must-listen-to podcast. it is number one in america for a reason. he is following the trail that sent one woman into the dark qanon rabbit hole leading her to show up and die at the u.s. capitol on january 6th. all those stories and more when "deadline: white house"
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later this week the house will vote on a path to clear mark meadows former member of the house to face criminal prosecution. the select committee's contempt report i lays out the case for why he needs to be held accountable for obstructing the work of the committee with a
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litany of considerations including how he acted as a gateway to help donald trump overthrow the government he led. one of those figures we mentioned earlier in the hour is phil wald draughn, a retired army colonel who shared a power point presentation for poseying multiple pal paths for disrupting the certification and overturning the will of the american people. wall draughn played crucial roles in the january 6th insurrection. from the dozens of individuals who stormed the capitol to mike flynn what was one of the chief ped letters of the big lie was also in the oval office counselling then president trump on martial law. joining us, a former army ranger, a member of the armed
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forces intelligence and security committee. you interviewed with rachel maddow in our studio on that day. i wonder what you are making of this report from the select committee? >> hi nicolle, thank for having me on. it is shocking but also shouldn't be shocking because this is exactly what we have been hearing and seeing since january 6th, that donald trump and his enablers attempted to overthrow an election and stop our democratic process, period. there is a power pointed and documents circulated that they took this plan, this insurrection, this coup plan, and put it into a power point presentation, were trying to solicit support for it by using these documents. it is surely shocking. but this is a continued evidence. this is not over. er with not talking about history here. this outline as lot of the same things that donald trump and his supporters continue to try to
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do, undermine our democracy. and of course how they do use folks like michael flynn and mr. wall draughn and others, people that have held positions of public trust in our military to try to advance those plans. >> i think they use those people because those are people who traditionally in normal times have more respectability, they conote trust. but this timing their target was the will of every american who hadn't voted for donald trump. i wonder how you feel personally. 12% of capitol riot cases, have former military experience. should we be surprised? are you surprised that so many military and exmilitary were involved in that effort to overthrow our own country, our own democracy? >> i am surprised, nicolle. i feel awful about it, to be honest with you. as you might recall i was one of
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the members who was trapped in the house gallery on january 6th for some time surrounded by the riotous mob, by the insurrectionists. i struggled a lot over the past year, almost, thinking about this idea that i was on one side of that door and on the other side of that barricaded door were other veterans, people that took the same oath to protect the country against all enemies, foreign and domestic. yet there they were trying to overturn the election, trying to kill members of congress, very wello veterans. how did we get here as a country, which is i have asked myself, how did we get so far down this path. the have it reole, the toxicity that donald trump created. that's something i struggle with. at the same time i draw inspiration about the fact that most didn't do this. thinking about the military.
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one military member participating in this is too many. but the vast majority of men and women in our military are some of the most patriotic, most humble people you will meet. lets not forget on that day in january 6th hundreds and thousands of metro poll on the police officers fought, held the line, took severe brutal beatings some of whom have given their lives since then to preserve our democracy. that is really as big of a story as those who turned their back on our constitution. >> as you are speaking i am thinking of officer beginel who we have had on the program who was a veteran himself who described what he experienced and saw on 1/6 as more brutal than what he experienced and saw in combat. i want to ask you what you would say to veterans who are now facing criminal prosecution for participating? because, obviously a lot of things happened before they showed up there that day.
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they are responsible for their criminal acts, but they consumed a whole lot of lies from a whole lot of people. i guess if we have to turn the danger around we have reach those people. what would you say to them? >> as a country we are not going to address the danger and threat eye doubling down on politics and tribalism by shutting people out. i would say i believe in redemption, second chances, i also believe in accountability. people should and will be held accountable for violations of law and for attacks and violent and criminal attacks. that accountability will continue. but at the same time they have to decide whether they are going to continue to give in to the big lie, whether they are going to continue to follow the conspiracy theories, q-a-thon, the lies they are being fed on social media and extremist groups. or whether they are going the try to make the right decision, whether they are going rejoin the community, whether they are going to double down and
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reaffirm the oath that they once took, and mean it, and adhere to that oath. there is a good time to make a right decision. that time is now. it's never too late to make amends for your ways. it's what your country needs you to do. >> i hope that officer wall -- wald ron was listening to you just now. he was apparently the author of a power point and met with the white house chief of staff eight ten times. that's a lot of meetings with a white house chief of staff in person. here's what garrett haake learned from congressman adam schiff about that power point. i would like to play it and talk about it on the other side. >> i think what we are seeing from these documents is a concerted effort along many different lines of effort to overturn the election. first, beginning by laying the predicate for a challenge to the legitimacy of the election, when
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the president falsely told the country that any vote counted after election day was going somehow be illegitimate. then the frivolous litigation around the country, the president's efforts weighing on state election officials trying get them to overturn the results ask. then on january 6th, the effort to interfere with the counting of the electors. and so, it is a comprehensive picture that we are assembling of all of those multiple lines of effort. and you know, that slight deck, as well as other documents -- slide deck, as well as other documents shows what extreme lengsz people inside and outside the administration were willing to go to essentially overturn a presidential election and install donald trump as the president, having failed to win the election. >> just to remind our viewers we talked about it in the last block, but that last shied in the power point had the vice president, then mike pence seating republican electors over
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the objections of democrats in states where fraud occurred. there was no fraud. vp penguins rejecting the election oorts from the states where fraud occurred causing the election to be determined by the remaining electoral votes. there was a plan on paper to overturn the will of the american voter. are you confident we will get to the bottom of and hold everyone accountable who was involved in that? >> i think we are going to get to the bottom of it. in fact, the january 6th committee continues to do great work. and we are certainly going to try to hold everyone accountable. listening to my good friend adam schiff just can help me think about a big revelation from the last couple of years. that is i spent most of my adult life thinking that democracy was inevitable. that itself perpetrated that it was a condition we would always be in. i think when we have learned
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over the last couple of years is it is not. there are no set of documents, no norms, no customs no traditions that will just have it perpetuate forever. democracy is people. democracy are individuals who are willing to youp hold it, to abide by what democracy, the norms and traditions of a democratic nation. the second they stop upholding that, then it starts to disaappear. we have to reaffirm our commitment to democracy because it is never more than one generation away from extangs. as the famous quote goes. as we lead into next couple of days to the one-year anniversary of january 6th. i am going to remember that some better day, that we prevailed over the insurrection. i am going to remember the services and sacrifices of those who stopped it. i am also going to reaffirm my commitment to democracy. i call on all americans to do the same. we need to make 2022 the year to
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reaffirm our commitment to democracy, to free and fair elections and to the traditions and norms that served us so well for hundreds of years. >> congressman jason crow, we will call on youed a we head into. that it is remarkable that we are almost at that one-year mark. thank you for spending time. switching gears for us, california's governor is saying if the united states supreme court going to let private citizens in texas sue to stop abortions from happening, he's going to let californians sue people who put ghost guns and assault weapons on the street. we will get reaction to that next. my helpers abound, i'll need you today. our sleigh is now ready, let's get on our way. a mountain of toys to fulfill many wishes. must be carried across all roads and all bridges. and when everyone is smiling and having their fun i can turn my sleigh north because my job here is done. it's not magic that makes more holiday deliveries to homes in the us than anyone else,
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after the u.s. supreme court refused for a second time to overturn texas's near total ban on abortion with that vigilante enforcement in it, one blue state governor is striking back against the court's seemingly political decision there. governor gavin newsom announcing this weekend that he would be supportive of a texas-style ban, but on assault weapons and ghost guns. he would consider allowing private citizens to sue anyone who manufactures, distributes, or sells these types of weapons. governor saying, quote, if texas can ban abortion and endanger lives california can ban deadly weapons of war and save lives. while banning these types of weapons is extremely popular among upward of 0% of all americans, it echos warnings by
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experts and the very justices themselves who said that friday's decision could be used to deprive americans of constitutional rights, just as sonia sotomayor wrote, the court leaves all manner of discussional rights more vulnerable than ever before. joining our conversation, barbara mcquaid, former u.s. attorney and msnbc contributor. claire is still here. barbara, this is a question i have been asking since august when the ban was first in place. if vigilanteism gets a green light from the united states supreme court whery not use it on other side of the idealism factory making in america? why not use it for good to take guns off the street? >> i agree with you, nicolle. i think this is what happens when you allow the ends to
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justify the means. if a blue state is interested in doing things like making it illegal to possess weapons, they could do it for any constitutional right. a state could take away due process rights before they take away your property. they could make it illegal to speak out against the government. all of those things. even chief justice john roberts, who is no liberal, no fan of abortion rights wrote in his opinion last week that you can't look at the nature of the right involved, what you have to look at is the role of the supreme court. and we are allowing states to completely usurp the role to the courts. now you see gavin newsom doing that. more power to him. i think one of the problems with this supreme court is that they don't care about hypocrisy. i think if this case comes up on gun rights i think they will have no problem smacking it down
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on vigilanteism and finding a way to distinguish it from the sb-8 case. if one thing the trump era brought us it is the absence of shame. mitch mcconnell did it when he refused to vote on merrick garland and coasted through when it was time to bring in amy coney barrett. there is no shame in hypocrisy. i think the court will see gun rights as a very different right. this one is actually expressed this the text of the constitution, as opposed to abortion rights, which are merely implied. they will find a tiny grain on which to distinguish it because they have no integrity. >> barb ration you are blowing my mind. tur straightest of the straightest shooters that come on this show. tell me, do you see the u.s. supreme court the way justice sotomayor does as not being able to avoid the stench?
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>> i see the supreme court the way chief justice john roberts is seeing the supreme court. he has lost control of the right wing of the court. he has said, folks, what are we doing here? i know you hate apportion but we can't look at the nature of the right. we have to -- since marbury versus madison 200 years ago we said it is the rule of the courts to decide what rights are. we can't allow a state come up with a end run around the judiciary to pass a law that they like. he would have stopped this law back in august before it had a chance to go -- we have been seeing the violation of constitutional rights in texas since that time. and this court doesn't care because they are myopically focused on ending apportion rights. >> claire, you and i have had some of our only disagreements about the democrats commitments to norms, things like the filibuster. another one of them is leaving
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the court in its current structure. do you think democrats should sort of take time over the holidays the rethink their feelty to norms and reconsider court reform, reconsider filibuster reform? >> i think on both counts. there is definite will he reform needed of the u.s. supreme court. you can start with ethics. they don't have the same rules, supreme court justices. start with term limits. the american people support term limits for everybody, including supreme court justice. you could actually -- and i certainly believe there is filibuster reform that must happen to carve out the ability of the senate to deal with voting rights. and i think barb is right about one thing, the hypocrisy here is astounding. and we typically don't think of the supreme court -- you know, every once in a while somebody on the supreme court surprises us by making a decision that would not be expected based on
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the politics of the president who appointed them. i'm afraid those days of surprise are over. i think we know everybody but roberts is in tank for the right wing, extreme views and i think the vigilanteism is going to catch on. what is going to happen next, red states are going to do vigilanteism laws on immigration and they are going empower citizens to go out and rounds up people that look like foreigners. that's what we are coming to this in krun. it is incredibly depressing, especially as we are so near a religious holiday that is all about loving other people and accepting the least among us to be part of the larger group. >> i mean, as you are both speaking, it is clear that we need to bump this up. and this is a four alarm fire. we should cover it as such this. program has been simultaneous cast on the cooking channel due to claire's cake behind her which has provided a glorious
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and welcome distraction to everything we talked about over the last 49 minutes. we will talk about that cake on another day. >> i didn't bake it. a friends of mine brought it to me. it's something, isn't it. >> unbelievable. i think it broke mccaskill, thank you so much for spending time with us today. moving on to an incredibly tragic story now. the death toll in kentucky is rising this hour. president biden says he will visit this hard-hit state this week after that devastating string of tornados across six states over the weekend. we'll have a live report on the rescue mission still under way next. e report on the rescue missionti sll under way next
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i know like the folks in western kentucky, i'm not doing so well today, and i'm not sure how many of us are. i was working on getting the confirmed deaths this morning and realized i was writing on the back of notes that one of my kids took from school. and here's what -- what it is. it's notes on inertia. it means that an object that's in motion will stay in motion, so we're going to keep putting one foot in front of the other, push through this. >> that was an emotional governor andy beshear after several tornados tore through kentucky and seven states this weekend.
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74 souls in that state are confirmed dead. they include members of the governor's family. at least 100 are still missing. joining us now from one of the hardest hit towns, dawson springs, kentucky, the hometown of beshear's family is our colleague, ellison barber with the latest. >> reporter: hey, nicole, when you walk through this community, when you look around, at one point you think, maybe it's just one or two streets that are devastated but the more you go, the more you see and i realize that most of this town, this community of less than 3,000 people, is gone. if you look up and you look around, you can see what was a series of apartments, most of them entirely gone. i spoke to the coroner of this county, hopkins county, and he said that 13 people lost their lives here. all of them in dawson springs. i asked him if he thinks that number could rise, and he says
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that, yes, they are worried that that number may go even higher, because so many people in this apartment complex are still missing. i spoke to one woman who described riding out the storm, looking up after being in her neighbor's basement, and just seeing nothing but complete and total darkness. she then ran across the street looking for her other neighbors. she and others, they started pulling people out of their basements, literally neighbors saving each other's lives in this neighborhood, at least three people lost their lives, and again, nicole, in this apartment complex, a number of people are still unaccounted for. i mean, we met one man yesterday who had a list of seven people he was trying to find, all of them had lived in this area. nicole? >> nbc's ellison barber, thank you so much. it's just a heartbreaking, heartbreaking tragedy. thank you so much for your reporting. the next hour of "deadline white house" starts after a quick break.
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miss crawly, it's me mr. moon. i haven't heard from you in awhile, i'm starting to worry here. ♪ grab a brush and put on a little make-up ♪ make-up. ♪ hide the scars to fade away the shake-up ♪ you whoo. your destination is on the right. okay. whaaa! at what point did you and president trump actually have a discussion on this request from mayor bowser? >> i had a meeting with president trump on the 3rd of january concerning some international threats and he asked if there were any requests for national guard support and i informed him of mayor bowser's request. >> mr. miller, to clarify that point, did you tell the president about the mayor's request or did president trump ask if there were requests?
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>> he asked if there were requests. >> what was the president's response to you with regard to the request made by mayor bowser? >> fill it and do whatever was necessary to protect the demonstrators and -- that were executing their constitutionally protected rights. >> hi again, everyone, it's 5:00 in new york. we learned that back in may through the testimony as you just saw of former acting defense secretary christopher miller that in the lead-up to january 6th, the former president wanted the national guard there to protect his supporters, which is outrageous, as we know they were the ones who ultimately did the damage, who stormed the capitol with the purpose of harming some members of congress. they were the ones chanting "hang mike pence," and they were the ones who erected a gallows right outside the capitol building. miller's testimony now takes on new importance as it supports or
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goes in tandem with a stunning menl expressed by former chief of staff mark meadows. in an email previously unknown until now. from the 1/6 select committee's report recommending that mark meadows be held in contempt of congress. quote, we would have asked mr. meadows about emails regarding the deployment of the national guard on january 6th, including a january 5th email from meadows in which he indicates the guard would be at the present to, quote, protect pro-trump people, end quote. it's shocking. at least it should be. that the national guard was envisioned and allegedly wanted to protect not the capitol building or the members or mike pence, for christ's sake, not the peaceful transfer of power, not our democracy, but to protect donald trump's supporters. politico puts meadows' email in this confection. quote, it is unclear who meadows relayed the information to or whether it was the result of any insight provided by the defense department but the exchange is of high interest to the congressional investigators probing whether trump played a
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role in the three-hour delay between the capitol police's urgent request for guard support and their arrival at the capitol, which had been overrun by pro-trump rioters. it comes on the heels of a letter accusing senior army officials arguing against deploying the national guard troops on january 6th. as stated in the contempt report, this email of meadows is just one of many many lines of inquiry the select committee would have asked the former chief of staff about if he did appear for his deposition. but as he is still not cooperating, the committee is moving forward in trying to hold him accountable. tonight, two hours from right now, the committee will vote to recommend contempt charges for meadows. a full house vote expected tomorrow. new, stunning revelations about trump world's conversations in the days before and around january 6th is where we start this hour with some of our most favorite reporters and friends. frank figliuzzi is here, a former fbi assistant director for counterintelligence and host of "the bureau" podcast. also white house reporter for
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pbs news hour and moderator of washington week for now. and editor at large of the bulwark, charlie sykes is here. lucky for us, all three are msnbc contributors. i don't want to lose this thread of the committee's interest in two things. one, knowledge of violence and two, the white house's role, the president was still mostly for worse but for better or worse the country's only commander in chief, and this direction, this sort of understanding that the most powerful person in the government other than the president, his understanding was that the guard was only to be deployed to protect the insurrectionists, to protect trump's supporters? wow. >> nicole, it just underscores how much more we need to know about the white house's role in what happened on january 6th. without the full context of this, it's somewhat hard to say whether or not mark meadows was
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saying that they have to be part of protecting this, if this was a secondary role. the point is that these people who were breaking into the capitol, these insurrectionists, they were people that were trump people and they were people who were really following former president trump's direction in going to the capitol, so of course in some ways, it makes sense, as shocking as it is, that mark meadows would be very, very concerned with their safety given the fact that they were breaking into a federal building. it is also, of course, the big question is, was the national guard also supposed to be on call for helping out the police, for helping out the officers that are now traumatized, some of whom have sadly killed themselves because of the trauma they experienced? these are the questions that mark meadows in some ways needs to answer, and that i'm sure lawmakers want to pose. i think the other thing that's really interesting is that of course mark meadows, being in the room, knowing full well what the former president's intentions were, it's interesting to know that he was in touch with lawmakers in key states, trying to sort of get these meetings set up about what
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possibly could they do to overturn the election. so in some ways, as much as we know that a lot of this happened on the sort of front pages of newspapers, on tv, on twitter, openly trying to -- openly trying to change the election results, i think it still sort of -- it boggles the mind that mark meadows was also concerned with sort of the protection of the people who were literally breaking into the capitol. >> yeah, i mean, and the timing is so staggering. i mean, by january 5th -- so, mark meadows sends this email that the committee says they wanted to ask him about. they had more questions, as yamiche is pointing out. these are things they wanted more information about. they had more questions about an email sent on january 5th in which he indicates the guard would be present at the capitol to, quote, protect pro-trump people. so, you know, frank, if you go back in time, by january 5th, and i mean, homeland security officials, i mean, everyone knew who was going to be there.
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and there wasn't a lot of contemporaneous reporting that there would be counterprotests. all of the reporting was that donald trump and his campaign had, via text, rally appearances, emails and other organizing methods imported his people to the capitol to fight, and mike flynn and rudy giuliani and all the folks that we talk about all the time dressed in some bulletproof garb, you know, there was so much, in hindsight, awareness of the potential for violence, but what's -- what should never be normal is that on january 5th, the white house chief of staff indicated that the guard would be at the capitol to, quote, protect pro-trump people. what about the people who they were attacking? frank? >> is that for me, nicole? >> yes. >> yeah. i want to speak from my experience in major event security from securing a g8 summit during my career to multiple olympic games.
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you can't do both. you can't secure the threat while you're securing the target of that threat. so, any notion now that you have played this clip in may, so we heard it in may. now we've been hit over the head with it again with regard to mark meadows's communication and i think americans who are generally attuned to things going the right way, the system, the process, the rule of law, maybe glossed over the may testimony and now need to get hit over the head with it, but that blow to the head has just come. let me assure you, you can't do both. you can't say, well, the guard's going to be on call to protect the protesters, when you're watching the fact that there's violence coming. you know it's coming. you know there's no counterprotest planned. you can't do both. you need to protect the target from the threat. the target was the united states capitol. and the peaceful transition of power in a presidential election.
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that's the way this works. we've been hit over the head with the truth about what the national guard was going to be deployed for, and it is a subversion of our military. make no bones about it. i have been measured. i have been careful. i'm an evidence guy. but i'm now seeing the evidence, and this was an attempt to subvert the military for an authoritarian purpose. that's not good. secondly, we've got mark meadows now from the supporting document, from the select committee. we've got him communicating with doj about finding the fraud, not while there's a legit concern that there's election fraud but rather after doj has said, can't find any. we were all over it. we looked for it. it's not there. after that, he's saying, no, no, no. you need to find the fraud. so we've got a guy who now is being placed at the center of not only the big lie but the violence on january 6th. he is becoming a major player,
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not a peripheral player. >> you talked about protection from a threat. i've always wondered if the white house chief of staff is directing the guard to protect trump supporters, they obviously knew there was no threat in washington to trump. i mean, the secret service did not hesitate to rush donald trump down to the -- to protect him when there were protested in lafayette. donald trump was at an open air event in the ellipse. there was no threat to donald trump. no one was worried about donald trump's safety because they knew who was going to be there. there was no question that trump's supporters might be in danger, was there, frank? or if there was a question that his supporters might be in danger, wouldn't there also have been a question about white house security, about trump security? >> right, what we saw with regard to the behavior of secret service that day seems to me an anomaly from standard operating procedures, and i think we need to -- if the committee hasn't already, behind closed doors, we need to hear high-ranking senior
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secret service officials during that time explain what was going on and why the president was not put in some bunker or in the basement or moved outright out of the white house. why vice president pence was allowed to remain in that setting, highly volatile setting, and why reportedly, reportedly, vice president pence said something like, i'm not getting in that vehicle. think about that. a secret service driven vehicle and allegedly the vice president is hesitant to get in it? that is his lifeline. we've got to dig into that. >> charlie, the right does a good job at -- i'm trying to think of a tv-friendly word. covering over, papering over legitimate questions to make it sound like, oh, people fretting about the insurrection.
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it wasn't as deadly as 9/11. what's the big deal? the big deal is this. according to the contempt report, meadows was in contact with some of the private individual who planned and organized the january 6th rally, one of whom reportedly may have expressed safety concerns to meadows about january 6th events. meadows used his personal cell phone to discuss the rally and that in the days leading up to january 6th. meadows exchanged texts with and provided guidance to an organizer of the january 6th rally on the ellipse. after the organizer told him this, quote, things have gotten crazy, and i desperately need some direction. please. now, we know from the committee's subpoenas who the organizers were. they were folks associated with the most extreme elements and groups in american politics, and the white house chief of staff, whose salaries paid for all of us, was giving them direction? it's unbelievable, charlie. >> you know, i want to go back to two words that you used in your set-up.
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you said this was stunning and it was shocking, and you know, you and i have been in talking about this gang for the last five years, and you would think that by this point, we couldn't be shocked by anything, that there's nothing that would be amazing, and yet, what we're learning now about this whirlwind of crazy at the very heart of the white house, the chief of staff to the president of the united states involved in this, to what extent, you know, we're not sure. it is one of the great ironies of history that mark meadows is undermining the cover-up that he would normally be, you know, at the center of. but we are now finding out exactly how serious they were. the extent to which the men and women in the white house betrayed their oath of offices, did not understand the role of the military and spent time con
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sorting with some of the craziest conspiracy theorists in the country and it's interesting to me that mark meadows, who obviously is responsible for this document dump, is apparently willing to have this criminal contempt of congress, more willing to do that than to risk testifying in front of congress where he would run the risk of perjuring himself and of being excommunicated from trumpworld, that he's at the point right now where he would rather be criminally charged with contempt of congress than have to sit and tell the story. and to yamiche's point, if there's one thing that's obvious, it's that this is exactly the role of congress in its oversight. this is exactly the sort of thing that the american people need to have investigated as thoroughly as possible, and anyone who took an oath of office of the constitution should want to cooperate with. and one more thing, nicole. i'm haunted by something you said a couple of weeks ago. that, you know, we're talking about being hit over the head
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and seeing all of this. you asked the question, but will it make a difference? will it matter? will this change public opinion? will this cause republicans who have gone along with everything else to change their minds? and we honestly don't know. and i'm not totally optimistic about that. >> i want to respond to a couple things. i want to our team today, at 2:00, i said, i keep wanting there to be a day when this -- what these people did to this white house that i had the privilege of working in and revered for it not to shock me and gut me and cause me to feel despair and today's not that day. i am disgusted by reading this -- and i read all 51 pages. i have not given viewers of the program homework since the raffensperger transcript came out but i implore you to see the kind of person that would run donald trump's white house. my question to you is, one, i think a criminal contempt charge might be the least of mark
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meadows's future legal problems, don't you? >> well, it ought to be. if what we are seeing here, and i think that what we are seeing here is a detailed attempt or an undertaking, a conspiracy to overthrow the legitimate, fair, and free election of the president of the united states. there has to be some sort of legal consequence to that. and you know, i'm not one of those who is, you know, willing to drag the attorney general every day, but at some point, the department of justice has to look into this and say, are we dealing with just -- just with the people who entered the capitol but what about the people who orchestrated it? what about the people who lied to them? what about the people in these meetings that set this train of events that resulted in january 6th? there seems something seriously wrong when it's the foot soldiers who are going to prison, but the mark meadows and the donald trumps of the world, so far, face no criminal charges.
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>> yamiche, i'm reluctant to say it this way but i'm just going to do it. liz cheney is a sort of vocal supporter of the entire architecture of post-9/11 foreign policy, highly unpopular and i know with most viewers of this program, but my question is about what i'm seeing and sort of shards and threads from the weekend. meadows reportedly balked when he found out they were looking for phone records, and they're not looking -- i mean, the congress isn't the nsa. they don't have, like, tapes. they weren't listening to him. it's metadata. they just want to see calls in and calls out. that's what makes meadows balk. liz cheney is not going to stop at ali alexander. liz cheney's going to go to the root of the threat to democracy and the way liz cheney stays a republican is she views the threat as separate from republicanism, and that may be right or wrong, but she views trump and trumpism as the threat, as the criminal actors, and i wonder if you can sort of speak to what's in this report
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and what is clearly a newly aggressive posture from the 1/6 committee going up to and including mark meadows. >> yeah, i mean, what you see from lawmakers is them looking at this insurrection and saying, we have to understand who the players were. we have to understand how these foot soldiers, these people that we saw break into the capitol, how they got the messaging, the funding, the confidence to feel like they could try to overthrow an election and i also think when you look at this and look at mark meadows balking at the idea that people want to see his phone records, one thing that's in this report that is very important is that mark meadows was communicating with people not only through official white house channels but also through private channels, so it's who are you texting? who are you emailing on other servers that aren't the white house servers? i mean, that started the information that i think people, especially lawmakers, want to get at and it's the sort of information that's going to be illuminating because maybe when you're planning to overthrow the
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election, you don't just do it on your government email. and to me, the questions that we still don't know the answer to were, what are they actually saying? not just watching the tv. but what were they saying? who was mark meadows texting? who were they calling? what was the president saying? not just sort of the vagueness that we have now. but i think lawmakers need to and want to get to the bottom of exactly what was happening in that west wing while they were all -- all of this was happening, while american democracy was under attack and i should tell you, you made one other point that i think is very important, and that is who was really at risk on january 6th? i was on the white house lawn. we were sitting in a bubble of security. it was quiet. it was, in some ways, surreal, because i was watching the live feed of the capitol and thinking, oh, well, things are going to get crazy here, and that was exactly the opposite. the birds are flying. everybody was chill. people were calm. people were, of course, shocked by what they were watching on capitol hill, but there was no sense of real threat at the white house. especially among staffers that i talked to. and it was because in some ways, they understood who the threat
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was and who these people were that were carrying out the violence that we were watching on tv. >> it's just amazing. and it's anecdotal, obviously, but it's just amazing that, you know, not a mile and a half way, they were engaged in what the capitol police officers called medieval hand-to-hand combat, worse than what some of them had seen in combat, in fighting wars. it's amazing. i feel like we're at the beginning of the beginning in trying to put our arms around and understand what happened. charlie sykes, thank you for being my partner in this journey and for starting us off. yamiche and frank stick around. when we come back, ayman mohyeldin joins us for a closer look at what drove an otherwise unassuming american to attack the capitol on january 6th. his latest episode of "american radical" connects the dots between online radicalism and the disgraced ex-president's lies about the election being stolen from him. plus, amid a republican-led assault on democracy, we will
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look at how right-wing media personalities are going out of their way, above and beyond, to praise vladimir putin? you see talking points straight out of the kremlin playbook. and the former trump aide who said he won't talk to the congressional committee because the ex-president told him not to. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. es after a quick break. don't go anywhere. no one can deliver your mom's homemade short ribs. that's why instacart helps deliver the ingredients. and you add the love. your plain aspirin could be hurting your stomach. vazalore...
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- san francisco can have criminal justice reform and public safety. but district attorney chesa boudin is failing on both. - the safety of san francisco is dependent upon chesa being recalled as soon as possible. - i didn't support the newsom recall but this is different. - chesa takes a very radical perspective and approach to criminal justice reform, which is having a negative impact on communities of color. - i never in a million years thought that my son, let alone any six-year-old, would be gunned down in the streets of san francisco and not get any justice.
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- chesa's failure has resulted in increase in crime against asian americans. - the da's office is in complete turmoil at this point. - for chesa boudin to intervene in so many cases is both bad management and dangerous for the city of san francisco. - we are for criminal justice reform. chesa's not it. recall chesa boudin now. rose ann began to buy into that part of the theory too. the first time blair remembers
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seeing a shift in rose ann's politics was on instagram about a month before the election and it really caught her off guard. >> it was after trump had gotten covid, and it's basically, you know, the leonardo dicaprio from "django unchained" meme, the smug meme, and it has trump's face superimposed that said, survived covid-19 and still your president. then he's holding a little cup, and the little cup says, like, liberal tears. and i remember seeing that and i texted lana, like, is rosanne a trump supporter now? that's the day when things kicked off of us being like, what's going on here? >> that is just a little snippet from the newest episode of msnbc's new original podcast series "american radical" from our friend, ayman mohyeldin. it is now the number -- still, i should say, still the number one apple podcast. it chronicles how one georgia woman became radicalized in the lead-up to the january 6th insurrection.
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episode 3, which is out now, dives deeper into qanon and how the group went from the fringes of society and politics to having a possible ally in the white house, the 45th president of the united states. joining us now is ayman mohyeldin, host of msnbc's "ayman" and this new podcast, "american radical." frank figliuzzi is with us as well. tell me about this one. >> in this episode, we go deep into the qanon radicalization that rosanne underwent and more importantly, the beginning of the outer sides of the information fringe of society, dealing with a cabal of satan-worshipping democrats and pedophilia, how do you go from that to being an ardent trump supporter? how does that lead you to go march on to the steps to the capitol? and in large part, it had to do with the messaging that was coming out of our politicians, including the president, and there's a very important moment here, it was at a town hall with savannah guthrie where he talks about qanon. let us play that and i'll explain. >> on october 15th, 2020,
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president trump joined an nbc news town hall moderated by "today" show anchor savannah guthrie. she pushed him to denounce qanon. he wouldn't do it. >> i just don't know about qanon. >> you do know. >> i don't know. no, i don't know. i don't know. >> let me ask you another thing. >> let's waste a whole show. you start off with white supremacy, i denounce it. you start off with something else. let's go. keep asking me these questions. >> i do have one more. >> let me just tell you, what i do hear about it is they are strongly against pedophilia and i agree with that. >> by 2020, qanon followers had come to believe that trump had a secret plan to overthrow the pedophile cabal for good. but he needed to win the election to make it happen. so they were preparing to mobilize. >> yeah, he kind of has to play footsie with these people because he needs these people. right? like a lot of people believe this stuff. it's the hard corest hard core of his base.
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they believe he is literally a messianic figure. >> so that -- at the end there, that's our colleague, ben collins, who tracks qanon, so what he does is shows you how it jumps from the fringes to a president who is playing footsie with qanon. he's saying to them, listen, i know that you guys may be into some really crazy things, but if you're willing to come and try to overthrow our election, to keep me in power, then i'm not going to say anything bad about you and then he does what a lot of qanon supporters do, which is, who's against pedophilia? how could you not want to say i want to fight against pedophilia? and he was able to convince this large group of people in this country that he is fighting on their behalf, and that's why they bought into the whole election fraud and having to keep him in power and then ultimately going to january 6th to try to overturn the certification process. >> i want to bring frank figliuzzi into our conversation. i mean, we talk about how do we get out of this position we're in? but it seems like we're still in the posture of understanding the threat and understanding how and where they've been radicalized and donald trump's role in it,
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frank. >> yeah, there's two -- at least two really valuable things about this podcast. first, it's not special because it reflects a unique aberration in radicalization, rather, it's special because it typifies the radicalization process and i mean, not just with regards to right-wing violent ideology but rather, it is right in step with what i have seen in my career with regard to international terrorism and recruitments violent jihad. even to why teenagers join gangs, street gangs in cities. you've got the perfect combination. we had covid with people planted in front of their computer screens night and day, getting fed this garbage in their own echo chamber. they're losing their jobs. they're looking for something to belong to that's greater than themselves, and here comes this disinformation, this so-called messiah, that they can affiliate with and get affirmation from
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people they've never even met halfway across the globe. it all matches the profile for radicalization. here's the second reason why ayman is doing a yeoman's work here. for everybody out there saying, what do i do with my family member or friend? take this podcast. do it lovingly. say, i love you, i care about you. i watched -- i listened to this podcast. i was enthralled by it. give a listen, tell me what you think. this is a tool in your toolbox that you can use. >> so amazing. it's so important. the new podcast, "american radical," is out now. ayman, you have to -- i said this already but you have to keep coming back. >> we will, absolutely. >> thank you so much. when we come back, wasn't that long ago when the republican party i was familiar with hated russia, used to stand up to them. now, the republican party or the shell of the republican party's biggest and loudest voices are parroting talking points straight from the kremlin. we'll talk about that after a quick break. we'll talk about that after a quick break.
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the more questions we have. the biggest question now, what's next? what will covid bring in six months, a year? if you're feeling anxious about the future, you're not alone. calhope offers free covid-19 emotional support. call 833-317-4673, or live chat at today. it is even by the standards of fox news, if standards are still a thing there, an extraordinary moment. russian propaganda from one of the network's most popular and most watched hosts. just hours after president joe biden spoke to vladimir putin to warn him on severe consequences if russia invades ukraine. you have to listen to this. >> so, at this point, nato exists primarily to torment
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vladimir putin, who, whatever his many faults, has no intention of invading western europe. vladimir putin does not want belgium. he just wants to keep his western border secure. that's why he doesn't want ukraine to join nato. and that makes sense. >> so, in response, chess champion, pro-democracy activist and putin crit, gary kasparov argues that tucker carlson's embrace of kremlin talking points speaks volumes. he writes, quote, why would a flal-wrapped nationalist like tucker carlson take putin's side? because putin took trump's side. because he's admiring of putin's authoritarian powers or because it's that trumpists don't see democracy as anything but trouble, despite their claims of being freedom-loving patriots. praising a dictator is to praise dictatorship and what could be
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more un-american than that? wow. joining our conversation, mark mckinnon and frank figliuzzi is here. mark, i was thinking about john mccain and in public and in private, he had the most harshest -- the most brutal things to say about vladimir putin. i mean, he was constantly on the phone with the folks most threatened by vladimir putin, and i pulled up some old mccain sound of what the standard bearer for the republican party used to think about vladimir putin and russia. >> vladimir putin is a thug and a murderer and a killer and a kgb agent. he had boris murdered in the shadow of the kremlin. he has dismembered the ukraine. he has now precision strikes by russian aircraft on hospitals in aleppo. let's call vladimir putin for what he is.
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>> and mark mckinnon, that never made any news because, frankly, democrats and republicans largely agreed with him, but especially the republicans. and after that long list, russia went on to interfere in not one but two american elections. what is the long game for tucker carlson and the american right? >> well, it's astonishing, nicole, and as you said, it used to be a unifying principle of the republican party to stand up to russia, specifically putin. there's another interview that carlson does with ohio republican congressman mike turner which i recommend because it's -- it is even more astonishing because in that, carlson even questions his own support of democracy, and he doubles down on defending russia vs. ukraine. like, why would we defend russia -- i mean, why would we defend ukraine and why not defend russia? they have all the oil. they have all this.
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as if assets were more important than ideology, in other words, assets, having oil, is more important than being a democracy. and that goes right -- you tie all that together, that ties right to the insurrection. they don't -- they support overthrowing a democratic america in our own homeland. they support a foreign dictatorship in russia. so the reality is that for tucker and others like him who portend to be these great patriots, they actually literally do not support democracy. when it gets right down to it. >> and they use the hell out of the first amendment. i mean, frank, i want to show you -- and i'll just say, you know, tv hosts can be needy, wanting of praise, but tucker carlson has lots of it. he has lots and lots of viewers here in america. apparently it isn't enough. here's how he's received in russia. >> number one channel in moscow, putting together this montage of lines from a favorite anchor. they show us tucker carlson, the host says. he's the man playing out all the complaints against president
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biden, she explains. excellent performance, exclaims this editor of a russian national defense journal. we can only have solidarity with this view. >> he's literally viewed as putin's man in the u.s., frank. >> well, if only the nielsen ratings were in moscow, and asking people about their fox viewership. look, i'm old enough to remember when the republican party stood not only for law and order but for global stability and for championing, aggressively, the rights of free people across the globe to determine their own destiny. apparently, that's no longer the case. and i think the key takeaways from the kasparov article are that for those who are out there saying, oh, tucker carlson must be owned by the russians, they've got something on him. no, it's actually worse than that. what i take away from the kasparov article is that the tucker carlsons of the world have an end game that results in
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authoritarianism. they are embracing authoritarian figures. one of the strongest now happens to be vladimir putin. that's the alliance. that's what they're finding themselves in love with. it's not so much that putin embraced trump or vice versa, but rather, putin stands for authoritarianism. that's where this is going. and there's a false premise in here that kasparov brings up which is that it's biden's weakness that has caused putin's troops around ukraine. it's the fact that biden has brought back allies, the concept that there's a bunch of countries in the world that stand for democracy and freedom that has putin very concerned, coupled with internal turmoil. russia is a mess. russia is not this top world, highly civilized, sophisticated place that fox news would like you to believe. it's a mess. and so putin has to find an enemy that will distract from the mess and have his people align with him. who's the enemy going to be?
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it's the u.s. and it's nato. that's what we're seeing play out here. >> you know, mark, i think people -- i pay attention to what happens on fox because i think it's at the intersection of the threat to the homeland, people that believe in these grievances, people who adhere to the lie, people who chafe at public health measures, intersect with an ongoing threat of domestic violent extremism. what i don't understand is what is the incentive structure for fox to become a vehicle that channels the kind of messages that threaten the country? >> that's a great question, nicole, and one we repeatedly ask ourselves as we find out more about the january 6th and all the things you've been reporting on earlier in the show. and again, you asked the question, what is the long game? and there's no, really, other way to interpret it. when you watch carlson go to foreign dictators and kneel, to praise vladimir putin, to literally question -- he says, i guess i'm for democracy.
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he guesses he's for democracy? well, maybe he's not. and maybe the long game really is ultimately an authoritarian state where it's literally all about power, and that's what, you know, donald trump -- i had my problems with donald trump, just the enablers, people like mark meadows, who you meet him on the street and he seems like a reasonable guy and you realize he's the guy spreading around the powerpoints leading up to the insurrection. so, it's really depressing to think about, you know, just to what extent members of our own congress, not to mention millions of other people, have bent over in the service of a demagogue, really, whose end game is to have an authoritarian state. >> mark mckinnon with some buzz words in there if you care to go find them, kneeling, bending over. i love it. frank figliuzzi, mark mckinnon, thank you. when we come back, this might sound familiar. the top aide to the disgraced expet is refusing to respond to a congressional subpoena. in this case, it's about the
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ex-administration's botched response to the pandemic. the aide says he's following a, quote, direct order from the ex-president. to not cooperate. that story is next. to not cooperate that story is next superpowers from a spider bite? i could use some help showing the world how liberty mutual customizes their car insurance. ow! i'm ok! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ only in theaters december 17th. your plain aspirin could be hurting your stomach. vazalore... is the first liquid-filled aspirin capsule
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today, the united states passed two grim milestones in the ongoing battle against covid. i'll warn you, they're hard to get your brain around, numbers so big and so tragic. more than 800,000 souls have died, and more than 80 million
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cases of covid have been confirmed -- more than 50 million cases, i'm sorry, from the disease that has now plagued this country for nearly two years. both those numbers also more than any other country on this planet, according to johns hopkins. with the country now facing new questions about the omicron variant, the previous administration's initial response to the pandemic remains under scrutiny. today, "the new york times" reports that peter navarro, remember him? he's the ex-president's trade advisor who had a significant hand in shaping the last administration's response to covid. he's refusing to comply with a congressional subpoena for documents. that's following a, quote, direct order from the former president not to comply. house democrats subpoenaed navarro as part of their select subcommittee on the coronavirus, which is investigating the federal government's pandemic response. let's bring into our coverage msnbc medical contributor dr. vin gupta, a pulmonologist and global health policy expert
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and yamiche alcindor is still with us. during the trump presidency, there was a fairly successful effort to stonewall congress. what are the prospects that they'll move to hold peter navarro accountable? >> well, it's a great question. we know that jim clyburn is not someone who's just going to take no for an answerable because peter, as he's telling congress that he doesn't want to come because of executive privilege issues, he's still marketing his book where he lays out in pretty good detail sort of a journal that he kept while he was at former president trump's side and talks about the year of the pandemic. when he was there making decisions alongside the president. so, i think in some ways, lawmakers are seeing this as not just the -- peter navarro not wanted to talk about what happened in the white house but only wanting to talk about it if there's money to be made so lawmakers seem very concerned and very frustrated, frankly,
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with his actions. i think it will be interesting to see whether or not they take this farther in terms of a criminal contempt charge because obviously, what they're looking at is not january 6th but it's a matter of life and death. the decision that former president trump made, the decisions that he made to downplay the virus, they at least arguably some critics of the president will say cost lives. it should also be noted that pete navarro was one of the first people in the white house, early on, warning the president, saying that the coronavirus pandemic could cost millions of lives for americans, that this could be something that disrupts our supply chain. this was long before president trump declared an emergency declaration for the coronavirus, so there's a lot of stuff that navarro could tell lawmakers, including what made him take the virus so seriously and what that meant that the president did not. >> dr. gupta, as yamiche is talking, i'm remembering the sound of donald trump's voice on tape with bob woodward, acknowledging his pretty granular understanding of both how lethal the virus is, how
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random it could be, that it could kill young people, not just older people. understanding the delta between what they knew and what they did seems to be an important endeavor, no? >> well, good evening, nicole. great to see you. i i will say this. absolutely. as a pulmonologist, we knew it was airborne and obviously it was imperative to reach that moment back in 2020. i will say now the biden administration faces an extremely important point in their response to get us psychologically out of this pandemic. in the next three to four months, i really think there is that pathway here. i know everyone will say otherwise, about you we are in a place where we need to tell the vaccine success story, but we need other elements of media to stop reporting on the vaccines and their effectiveness at preventing a positive test. bloomberg did it this morning, as did some other media
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headlines. it is scaring people, it is hardening the anti-vaxxers to say the vaccines don't work. here is the reality check for everyone who is watching. vaccines contain anti-respiratory viruses. it will not prevent a positive test or even mild symptoms. they will keep you away from folks like myself and my colleagues. that's a great success story and that's exactly what is happening. we need to be telling that story very clearly but the headlines are not necessarily reflecting that. >> so some of what i look at every day is the "new york times" website tracks cases. should we look at other metrics? fix it here and then we'll see if we can spread something more productive. should we just be tracking hospitalizations? it seems like this may be the new normal. i'm boosted, my little boy is now vaccinated, so i have a lot more security, i guess, than at any other point. tell me what i should look for r day when i read the paper, dr.
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gupta. >> yes, i think we need to start moving away from cases. cases don't tell the story because there are a lot of respiratory viruses around us that we are transmitting and we don't even know it. if you're double or triple vaccinated, covid won't be that big of a deal for you. tracking more clearly, the vaccine traces hospitals stays. at vaccine breakthrough illness, not whether you tested positive. that is a metric i know the cdc is following, some states are following, so that's number one, and number two, it's really important to recognize the toll of hospitalizations and deaths among the unvaccinated. we're forecasting at university of washington 10,000 weekly deaths week after week well into march. those two metrics are really
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vital. the unvaccinated is a huge problem for them, and what's happening in terms of severe illness to be triple vaccinated as opposed to fully vaxxed. that is the point here. >> we'll see if most people pay attention to what you have to say. dr. gupta, thank you for your candor and sort of rephrasing that for us. and my colleague, thank you for spending some time with us today. a quick break and we'll be right back. today. a quick break and we'll be right back tools and a personalized plan that helps you build a future for those you love. vanguard. become an owner. ok everyone, our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy. whoo hoo! ensure, with 27 vitamins and minerals, now introducing ensure complete! with 30 grams of protein.
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she was absent and she was missed while she worked on other projects for the first seven episodes of "snl" this season. but nate mckinnon is back. >> the children think, man, that elf on the shelf got old. as you probably heard, there is an omicron wave sweeping the globe. some experts feared the omicron variant would be vaccine resistance kind of like, i don't know, 40% of americans. the important thing is to get vaccinated. and if you're vaccinated, get boosted. and if you're get boosted, maybe you want a little top-off, a little splash, i don't know. sp. ♪ ♪
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thank you so much for letting us into your home through these truly extraordinary times. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. happy monday. >> happy monday. we begin with breaking news tonight. within the hour, the january 6 committee is on track to hold mark meadows with a contempt charge. he has openly defied subpoenas, even filed his own lawsuit against this committee which has filed its supporting evidence for tonight's contempt. you hear some pages here that meadows is far more involved in the run-up


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