tv The Beat With Ari Melber MSNBC December 14, 2021 3:00pm-4:00pm PST
thank you for being with us today, nicolle wallace will be back tomorrow. "the beat" starts now. >> good to see you. welcome to "the beat." i am ari melber, and we're tracking breaking nauz. all eyes are on the house floor you see right here where democrats say they have the votes to hold trump aid mark meadows in criminal contempt tonight for defying the january 6th probe. tonight's vote would tee off a major call with doj about whether to go ahead and indict meadows which would lead to trial and a possible jail sentence, the fate of steve
bannon echoes in his ears as he watches this vote tonight. we're tracking that, and msnbc will be bringing you the vote when it happens. be that in this or the following hours. we also have analysis tonight on the legal significance of all that with maya wiley and other experts standing by. that's the clash over mr. meadows cooperation. but i believe the most important thing is where we start right now. how that procedural clash is actually yielding new factual information about trove of digital evidence. so our top story is that evidence, which is separate from this process battle over meadows' participation and whether he'll be forced to cough up more evidence because what's already coming out right now is very damning, so damning that it takes a moment to actually absorb. we are right now going to share with you something we do around here, which is just the facts, however disturbing they may be, beginning with what we learned from one of the republican members of this committee, liz cheney who read into the record the evidence that many prominent
conservatives were privately urging trump to stop the horrific insurrection violence from influential fox news hosts to donald trump jr. himself, cheney reading from the texts that those people wrote to meadows in the heat of those dangerous moments that they thought would remain private. >> indeed, according to the records multiple fox news hosts knew the president needed to act immediately. they texted mr. meadows, and he has turned over those texts. quote, mark, the president needs to tell people in the capitol to go home. this is hurting all of us. he is destroying his legacy, laura ingraham wrote. please get him on tv destroying everything you have accomplished, brian kilme
texted. quote, can he make a statement? ask people to leave the capitol, sean hannity urged. >> that's just some of the evidence. now, congress wants the rest of it to account for what happened, and to deal with accountability, but this evidence alone tonight does add new information. it shows how people who were horrified by trump-fueled violence would then go on to quickly lie about it and defend it on air. ms. cheney there was very dry, very measured, there just giving you just the facts, but we have more than just those facts isolated. i want to show briefly comparing some of this starting with fox's laura ingraham, her private text appeal versus her lies on air. >> more than 99% had to be, were peaceful, but because of a small contingent of loons, these patriots have been unfairly maligned. >> or her colleague privately said the violent day was destroying everything in trump's legacy while publicly lying about the violence that
occurred. >> i do not know trump supporters that have ever demonstrated violence that i know of in a big situation. >> or sean hannity who literally campaigned with trump privately pushing for him to intervene to try to get the insurrectionists out of the capitol. then he went on the air to down play the insurrection as somehow separate from trump's wider movement. >> people who acted violently today, they don't represent the millions of law-abiding, hardworking, tax paying citizens responsible american patriots that are worried about election integrity. this is a blatant tension between the private urging to stop the violence, the insurrection and the public lies that defend that very activity. i want to get into this more deeply dealing with some of those individuals on air, but i also want to show you the family. these new texts, newly exposed shows that when donald trump jr. wants to reach his dad on an emergency basis, sometimes he
has to go through the chief of staff like a tortured scene. >> all of the hypocrisy that we saw during ten months of rioting, looting, arson, in your face type of politics candidly, whatever my father said on january 6th was mild in comparison. >> but it didn't look mild behind the scenes where as i just showed you on your television screen, you see donald trump jr. in private pleading with an aide to his dad, please stop this blank asap. the entire plot to overthrow this election was based on lies. without propaganda there's no large group of people who are going to show up to do the insurrection in the first place. now some of the most powerful people backing the lies and down playing the insurrection are caught today out here digitally naked with their texts, exposed for actually believing the opposite of what they would go
on to claim repeatedly to their own listeners, viewers, believers, what they will claim to them on air. >> obviously this is a huge victory for these protesters. >> it's not like it's a siege, it doesn't seem. it seems like they are protesting. >> there's never been an inauguration like this. there's never been anything like this where the election was stolen from a president. >> and the protesters who had invaded the capitol were walking between the rope lines. >> the individuals you hear there, many of them knew better. how are they responding today? i just showed you this is all out in public. we're living through this. this part's really telling. these professional communicators who do know how to talk and make arguments, who found all kinds of weird, creative and even bizarre ways to pivot during four years of the trump era, most of them right now i could tell you we checked, they're just taking the l, the loss.
they got caught agreeing with the many americans who were horrified on that day by donald trump touting the insurrection, and rather than address their own record, they are actually reaching for a version of cancel culture. they'd rather cancel any mention of the facts i just showed you that are in the public view, that are in the congress. they'd rather cancel it than admit something that might actually add a dash of responsibility to their own coverage. the fact that according to these texts for at least a moment that day they cared about the authoritarian coup, and they did something to try to intervene. there is, by the way, a separate question of whether journalists should be lobbying the president to do anything, but many of these people were not journalists. this is a big development for a nation that's often numb to these kinds of scandals. sometimes frantic texts reveal how these top republicans, some who were inside the capitol could obviously see the reality of the extreme danger. there is a political effort to
lie america out of this, to change it, to confuse it, to erase it. so right now before we bring in our experts, i want to read to you some of these newly revealed texts from republicans who were reaching out to trump's chief of staff amidst what we know was happening. quote, they have breached the capitol. quote, mark, protesters are literally storming the capitol breaking windows. is trump going to say something? another republican writing, quote, there's an armed standoff at the house chamber door. another, apparently from inside writing we are all helpless pleading with the chief of staff. another writing, quote, trump has to tell the protesters to dissipate. someone is going to get killed. another writing, quote, tell them to go home. those republicans understood the trump supporters you see on your
screen were the danger, that they violently overwhelmed police, that the only way to stop the violence and as they put it in realtime, the likely killings was to beg their leader donald trump to stop these people, these thugs, these insurrectionists. now, think about it. would many of those people i just quoted, those republicans, what they apparently did not or would not understand is this was the plan. this is what their leader wanted. these republicans who are senior enough to have access to meadows' phone to text with him in the moment of their panic, which i can understand and relate to, they didn't seem to grasp they were asking the arsonist to put out the fire with that you are lives on the line. they were still in a kind of denial as these trump fans tried to kill police and publicly demanded the execution of mike pence and nancy pelosi.
these people wanted a violent coup. we all saw what happened. this investigation, bipartisan by the way, is revealing more about how it happened and about how these people who know better, powerful people with influences and audiences, they knew better that day, and they keep lying about it risking not only our democracy literally, but risking really themselves because apparently they were too scared to tell the truth or even fight back. we have special coverage tonight as we watch the vote in the house. as i mentioned maya wiley standing by on the law. on this topic, i want to go one on one to a special guest who knows this congress well and some of these individuals that i just quoted, that's former united states senator barbara boxer. thanks for being here. >> thank you, ari, what an opening. i'm literally kind of speechless, which is bad.
i have to get over that because it's stunning what you have revealed, and you have laid it out, and there was a violent attack on our capitol on january 6th. we know what we saw. we knew it then, all these republicans and right wing commentators knew it then, and they decided to step back and not tell the truth, and the truth is coming out. >> yeah. i'm curious what you think particularly are those frantic texts because the truth is what is first in danger with ow authoritarianism, and world history shows that, and the truth is what this committee says it's pursuing, and the truth is what mr. meadows is obviously withholding. it's real, not fake evidence that he's hiding. i want to read to you from a conservative outlet where amanda carpenter writes, she's worked for many republicans. she's writing for the traditional conservative view, not pro-trump and she says no
matter what they say now in light of of this evidence, trump loyalists knew at the time what was happening at the capitol was not peaceful. they knew it was an attack on american democracy. they knew trump was responsible for it. that's why they sent the texts pleading with him to make it stop. senator. >> the truth is on display. the moments that those were written, that's the truth, and i want to just talk about fox news very quickly because i took away three things, and i'll say them fast, ari, because i know you got lots of people waiting. one, fox news was to the trump administration what state tv in russia is to putin. honestly, these folks were literally advising him very close to him, and had incredible access to trump's top person, mark meadows. secondly, fox news, those folks knew that trump could stop it. what does that prove?
it proves he started it. it proves he controlled it. that on its face is amazing. and three, fox news and those folks are now lying about january 6th and instead of being patriotic americans, they're slamming the committee of the house that is bipartisan and let's be clear, they were scared to death on january 6th. they were frightened to death, and they are so ideological and so in trump's orbit that they are now liars. it's awful. >> yeah, i appreciate your candor on it, and you know that building well. i know you care about it in the american sense of it, not one party or the other, although it's one party here doing this. senator boxer, i'm going to turn to maya wiley on the legal part. thank you for joining us. >> thanks. >> those are the facts as i mentioned that are emerging. why are we learning about them?
because of the larger process, the house voting on criminal contempt for mark meadows, the trump white house chief of staff during the insurrection. he talked about potentially cooperating, but is now defying the probe. moments ago liz cheney was beginning this debate, and also talked about whether there was a potential trump crime amidst all this while saying that meadows' testimony is critical to getting the whole truth. >> mr. meadows' testimony will bear on another fundamental question before this committee, and that is whether donald j. trump through action or inaction corruptly sought to obstruct or impede congress's official proceeding to count electoral votes. this committee is entitled to mr. meadows' testimony, and it will inform our legislative judgments. >> again, to repeat a theme i mentioned, it is clearly congresswoman cheney's style to just speak in a measured way. what she just said there is like
a bomb going off in terms of the house procedure because she's talking about whether the president committed the crime in the attempted coup. that's what she's saying. she says it her way, we say things our way. she's referring to what they already have, this trove of digital data, the cell phone records. the incriminating texts and emails with mr. meadows, his personal cell phone characterized by some as a quote personal hell for him. he used two private gmail accounts for government business. we're going to get more into that later in the hour. the committee is looking at all the communications. meadows was also someone who led the charge against, yes, there's always some hypocrisy in here, something that looks a lot less important than this but is relevant. he was looking for those other emails back in the day. >> on march of 2015, secretary clinton publicly said -- and i quote -- i opted for convenience to use my personal email
account, which was allowed by the state department. how difficult would it be to comply with the law that federal records act if you are using your personal email account, what would you have to do? >> well, he can answer his own question because he wasn't complying with it in one of the most important jobs in government. i'm joined now by maya wiley, a former civil prosecutor from the southern district of new york on the legal side of this. welcome back. >> good to be with you, ari. boy, a little bit of procedural jarring which i emphasize to viewers we're learning about some of this piecemeal because mr. meadows is trying to have it both ways. he has contradicted himself and been hypocritical. i say that as fact not as
criticism. whether for example on january 6th he came around to what some of those people were texting him, we just don't have all the evidence yet. walk us through legally what we're eyeing tonight which democrats say they have the vote told him in contempt. then what? >> well, look, once they have this vote, which is likely to pass, there's going to be referral to the u.s. attorney's office, and it is going to be the u.s. attorney's office which makes a decision about whether to take it to a grand jury, and it will be the grand jury's decision whether to indict. but look, this is a case where at the beginning of it, i think there's some lawyers who rightly say this is more difficult than stephen bannon because, one, he did some cooperating. he did turn over lots of records. he was in negotiations with the committee. steve bannon had just said i'm not going to talk to you, i'm not even going to negotiate whether i will talk to you. they can't say he did nothing,
and he was, in fact, a direct adviser to the president around the incidents they want to talk to him about, so it gets closer to executive privilege. but look, what we have to remember is, one, we already have an appellate court that has said, no, there's no executive privilege here, but president biden under the law said, no, there's no interest to protect here. but let's also remember because what was so powerful about what you laid out, ari, at the way you summed up what we have learned through this process and what the committee itself shared with us last night is the implication that even as an adviser to the president of the united states we're more in the land of u.s. v nixon. we're more in the land of whether or not there is an actual crime to investigate that the president was part of, and you just don't get to claim privilege around whether or not you were committing a crime.
>> right, and a crime that was in service of trying to end american democracy. sometimes the words sound so serious or grand that they might sound like hyperbole, and on the day of january 6th there was still a lot uncovered and figured out. we're here approaching a year anniversary with a lot more evidence. that's what it was, it was this coup plot. we also showed how sean hannity himself seemed concerned enough to privately lobby mark meadows ask they apparently have the kind of relationship where mr. hannity just says what he thinks the government or the president should do and goes back out and pretends to report on it as if he's more independent than he is. i say that by way of caution and handle with care. mr. meadows who's perfectly invited to come on this program decided to go talk to hannity about some of this. take a look. >> the hyper partisan predetermined outcome anti-trump january 6th committee just voted
9-0 to hold mark meadows in contempt for refusing to comply with their orders. we already know this is a predetermined outcome. didn't we learn that when they kicked jim jordan and jim banks off the committee? >> this is not about me holding me in contempt. it's not even about making the capitol safer. we see that by some of the selective leaks that are going on right now. this is about donald trump and about actually going after him once again, continuing to go after donald trump. >> so maya, handicap where we go from here. in public they have sort of their pretend volleys about this. in private they have their own communications that we actually got a little bit more of a look at, and then legally what is mr. meadows' time line for trying to use what might be potentially valid claims or as you said, those arguments of privilege to run this out? >> yeah, well, look, you know, sometimes the justice department can move very quickly, the grand
jury can move very quickly, and you can get to trial very quickly, and hopefully that's what happens here. certainly i think the effort is to run it out. just remember the point that i think representative cheney made so effectively last night, claire mccaskill pointed this out. what she really said was look at the time line. mark meadows was ccomplying. he was turning over all these documents until his book, and then his book comes out, and then suddenly he's not talking anymore, and he's not going to cooperate, but yet he's publicly talking, but he's only talking to the spin room for donald trump. and that is simply in congress when there are all kinds of reasons why these communications are privileged and they should be allowed under their constitutional power as representative raskin said, if we can't do it here, when will we ever be able to do it because it's central to what we have the
right to figure out whether we can stop insurrections in the future and how to do that. so i do think there is a lot of imperative here for this to move quickly to get to resolution because it is so critically important and because it does implicate a crime. and there's one fact that i wish the committee had spoken to last night, although i thought they did a very color systematic job, but at the same time all those texts are coming from donald trump jr., from our fox news friends, from members of congress. he, donald trump was calling senators asking them to slow the electoral vote down while all this was happening, while he knew there was violence, and while he wasn't taking action. >> right, and that's a key point because, again, some of this might all look very flimsy, but in a world where the combination of violence, chaos, and those republicans who wanted to align
themselves with parts of this in a world where they didn't do the certification, everyone wakes up on the seventh, and they're here claiming it didn't happen, maybe there's some larger legal question. as you drag that out, you're getting closer to the 20th. you can see the outlines that many americans prefer to think of as unthinkable and that the military was not going to support, it was a lane they ultimately didn't achieve. this is a lot of breaking news, but it's not the only breaking news. the "new york times" just crossing the wire with its stories about new developments in the criminal case against trump in new york. we have that. and going out to the wider politics and the weird wacky world of covering joe biden's first year. our friend is here with a look at the expectations game. that is all, and we'll continue to track what many are calling an historic night in the congress, accountability potentially for january 6th. we're inspired by our circle.
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2020. >> that's just some of the new debate there over whether the media treats biden more harshly than trump. it was kicked up partly by this chart that tracks over 200,000 articles and found sentiments showing more negative coverage of biden and trump recently, as you see on the right side. "the washington post" finding that the negative sentiment of coverage in those last 11 months of trump's term now basically matches biden's recent period there from the summer on, even as trump had those covid surges, his own loss, and of course cheering on the insurrection. there are many factors hear, but this is important for governance, politics, the whole thing really. donald trump's parade of numbing scandals may have left some in the media treating those kind of problems as a kind of a given. what was once warned about, normalizing trump and at least some of the data implicitly suggests that biden is being graded on some kind of higher
standard because he's supposed to return to normalcy. that media critique spawned critiques of the critique ranging from its methodology, to the more holistic counterpoint that biden is still governing during a pandemic that won't go away. the press may follow a sour mood right now. first of all, these sentiment studies which broadly track the words used in coverage, that data can certainly be noisy, and i can tell you right now tonight we're not here to resolve this once and for all. any decent data is still useful to look for the broader patterns or avoiding leading into one's prior beliefs. we all tend to prefer evidence, especially anecdotal that confirms what we already think. imagine sort of any political debate with your family. and for partisans when you look at the press stump, the idea that their side doesn't get a fair shake. for people in the media, we like
to think reporters work hard and can try to be fair, which can then limit our openness to honest, constructive criticism. here on "the beat" we try to stay open minded while ignoring the trolls and the bots. as they say online, don't feed the trolls. you know, those comments that aren't real or genuine, they're just trying to get a raise out of you, which has become a right wing political habit. we ignore the trolls. the media critique is raiing something relevant, how trump's scandals and incompetent lowered the bar for expectations. which is something the previous republican used to talk about. >> i will confront another form of bias, the soft bigotry of low expectations. >> trump was the king of low expectations. take his low terrible polling. the man was literally the most
consistently unpopular president of the modern era, didn't have a honeymoon, never cracked 50%, and yet, influential beltway outlets would parade out headlines like this, "politico" looking at trump's low weak 44% approval and saying, well, he's doing great with his base. trump voters, we'd do it again. that's how they headline 44, when biden gets a similar 44%, he gets voters doubt rising about his health and mental fitness. yikes. remember, the headlines are about the same underlying fact, that data i showed you may be noisy, but joe biden by any political standard or really, forget biden, any president i could tell you who wins with a good margin, who wins over independence to people in the opposing party and dip s to 44 is doing better than the person who -- trump just won the
electoral college and is stuck at 44. a friend of "the beat" and strategist says trump has basically hacked the media in ways biden has not, hitting journalists with so many lies and weaponizing a penchant for both sidesism that basically gets him more of the coverage he wants. trump taking advantage of the need to seem objective rather than reporters choosing to really cover him honestly as what he was clearly then and is now, an anti-democracy candidate. you can see the false equivalence in how pundits will say, gosh, if both sides are unhappy, they must be doing something right. >> the proof that we're doing a good job is that democrats are mad at the media for not helping to sell joe biden and their agenda, not our job, and the fact that they're had at us for not doing that i think is a great endorsement of the job we are doing. >> being tough on any politician becoming president is fine. claiming that the public reaction validates it doesn't
really get you back to the substance. now in 2016, voters were hit over and over with credulous media obsessions over hillary clinton's private email address. when they measured it up, emails was the most cited term voters said they had heard. i mention that not to go back down the email double standard, but let's be clear, that's not just a story about politics or political ads attacking the email issue. it's really a reflection of how much the so-called mainstream media really internalized the right wing frame of clinton critics that the email attack and its investigation was the most important thing about her and constantly discussed. now, again, since we're talking about bias, i want to be clear. you can debate whether it was good or bad to use the private emails and whether she handled the issue well. it is certainly evidence it was not a high point for hillary clinton, but the press when you measure it out, again, if you
use the data, there's a lot of signs that it was not proportionate or objective in treating the same issue when it came up in the very next year with a replacement administration because the trump folks did a lot of the same thing, the president using unsecured cell phones that pose the same or greater risk than her email account. in fact, donald trump, it was exposed had two phones. you remember kevin gates? i got two phones, one for the plug, and one for the load. some of what trump's accused of is worse than felonious drug dealing. the email stuff is back in the news tonight. top aides like meadows and trump's own family were also using secret email accounts. it's just not something those same outlets covered in the same way with as much proportion or criticism. we have the data on that. sometimes the criticism that is most effective skips some of all this data, you might say we get it, ari, you're just going through every little bit.
we saw the chart. all right, but here's an informed comedian with a serious take, bill maher looking at the false equivalence back in the day. >> republicans have one path to victory in this election, and it's called false equivalency. they can't deny trump is horrible. it's on tape, so they want voters to believe hillary is just as bad, and in pursuit of that goal, they have a very powerful ally. lazy people. say they're all the same, and then you can sound justifiably jaded by the entire process, when really you just don't know anything. >> bill maher willing to insult a lot of people with a point that was deadly serious in october 2016 when few in the republican party and d.c. or in the press really thought donald trump was about to score a hat trick in wisconsin and take the electoral college. the point here is not the press trying to do a job to engineer
an outcome. that is almost always a bad idea and not very objective. but the point is the press not falling into these traps that are designed for the press or a type of professional vanity where it tries to even up with false equivalence at this moment in time with people actively trying to stage coups and do racist things and overthrow the government. not all republicans, but some, trying to falsely equivocate on that, it's just not accurate. we bring in cha cue man dur ri who i just quoted. we're back after our shortest break, just 60 seconds. shortes break, just 60 seconds
for being here, sir. >> good to be here, ari, how are you? >> i'm great. you know when you hear that music, you know it's chai day. whether it becomes a national holiday is not up to us. it's a holiday here on "the beat." there's a lot going on. we walk back through this and i want to take criticism of the press seriously and the chart that we showed is not perfect, but what do you think it reveals about the press and why is it important when you look at this for everyone, people to be media literate about what they're consuming in the press, and be conscious of when does seem to be quite a gulf. >> yeah, i mean, there's been a lot of discussion about the methodology, that dana mil bank and "the washington post" used artificial intelligence. i'm not an expert on artificial intelligence. i don't think you need artificial intelligence to know something very clear, which is joe biden has had a run of bad press that has now lasted
several months. he literally has not seen a good headline in i would say maybe six months, and the reality also is the press is simply covering biden the way his opponents would want him to be covered. nothing positive biden has done has gotten any coverage. this year we cut child poverty in half thanks to actions undertaken by the biden administration and the u.s. congress. that's a major story. we don't hear about it. what we do hear is the controversy over whether children should learn crt. that seems to take more precedence over whether they're receiving proper nutrition or if they're going hungry at night. that is something that joe biden has very much addressed and it's gotten no coverage and he's gotten no credit for it. in addition i would say -- >> let me -- i'm going to ask you something because you've worked on campaigns. >> right. >> do you think that there are reporters, so-called mainstream, whatever you want to call it, network reporters who basically
get worked as referees and are thinking more about whether they can quote, unquote find something to even it up with as i mentioned two parties that are not exactly equal when it comes to one of them trying to overthrow the government? >> yeah, well, that actually very much has happened, and one of the worst resistants of that coverage was hillary clinton. the reason hillary clinton got so much negative coverage over that email server, which wouldn't have been and was not one of the top 100 trump scandals, was because the media had so much negative stuff to say about trump because he was simply doing so many negative things, so they felt they had to even out the playing field by playing up this really minor non-scandal. that's exactly what occurred there, and that is exactly what continues to occur in the media. >> let's dig into that. it goes to what bill maher was saying. he did nail that point really
bluntly because there's different models of journalism, and we're in a time when there's all sorts -- everybody knows the internet and pressures. if your model is refereeing and one player's fouling more, they get more fouls. if they foul out of the game, so be it. you don't then say we better foul out one of the other strong players on the other team regardless of what happens, and yet, your describing and maher was referring to reporters who are doing that, and is that what you think is happening? and b, how do you fix that other than i guess just having better journalism? >> well, that is exactly what has happened repeatedly with joe biden and with hillary clinton. vis-a-vis the trump republicans. the trump republicans are so bad, virtually nothing you can say about them is positive, so the press has to compensate by playing up biden and hillary's scandals. biden has actually been running for a year with a scandal free administration, it should be pointed out that i don't think he's gotten any credit for.
i think he should definitely get some credit with that. with trump it was a daily occurrence that was happening as well. i also wouldn't underestimate the role that ratings play in all of this. >> ratings, what are ratings? >> right. that's like the fuel that all network news or tv news works on. but like, you know, and you of course, ari, has excellent ratings which we point out, winning the 6:00 time slot, but you know, the reality is that what kind of creates ratings are cultural conflicts where you can sort of present both sides as equivalent, as having equivalent sort of arguments, so that's why crt has gotten more press than the cutting of child poverty in half, you know, there is -- that's just a, you know, quite frankly news getter. you can present that as a racial discussion, racial controversy. >> right, and you're -- and that goes to what people may then want to go to, and you're
raising something that's larger than this segment. we may come back to it with you, chai. all jokes aside about ratings, the competitive pressures on the press have only increased across mediums. a lot of print outlets now need the online component, which makes clicks a much bigger pressure on them. tv has its own pressures. we don't deny that, and that again creates the question of when kind of stories are actually being pursued at a systemic level, which again, we think it's worthwhile for us to be transparent about that as we look at these issues if we're a part of it. we also still try to do our stories regardless of some of it. i'm going to just say to be continued and thanks for being here. >> thank you, ari. when we come back, a story we haven't even had time to get to yet, the "new york times" crossing new reporting on the trump criminal probe lying to accountants whether that's a crime, and we're awaiting the
vote on criminal contempt for trump aide mark meadows. stay with us. trump aide mark meadows. stay with us uh, i-i'm actually just going to get an iced coffee. well, she may have a destination this one time, but usually -- no, i-i usually have a destination. yeah, but most of the time, her destination is freedom. nope, just the coffee shop. announcer: no matter why you ride, progressive has you covered with protection starting at $79 a year. voiceover: 'cause she's a biker... please don't follow me in. ♪ christmas music ♪ ♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ if your dry eye symptoms keep coming back, what?! no! over the counter eye drops typically work by lubricating the eyes and may provide temporary relief. xiidra works differently, targeting inflammation that can cause dry eye disease.
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breaking news tonight from the "new york times" on the criminal troeb in the trump organization, that's still an open criminal probe and whether trump's lies about his finances which are alleged may have been a crime. a long-time accountant of trump has faced a criminal grand jury convened by the top prosecutor in new york, the manhattan d.a. this individual was handling huge amounts of financial
information. they were the accountant that was technically outside the trump orbit. you watch the news, you may recall the insider, donald trump's cfo has already been indicted in that same case. this person may have reason to provide and cough up more information than allen weisselberg with deep knowledge of donald trump's real estate deals, his taxes and perhaps what some of these assets were worth. i'm joined by david corn from mother jones. david, take it away. >> we have two cases basically going. as you noted, allen weisselberg, the cfo at the trump organization was indicted basically on a tax scam, you know, finding ways to hide income to himself and others who worked for the trump organization. the case that the accountant is involved seems to be a question whether trump would in some cases inflate the value of his properties. if you want to get a loan for a bank, you want to say this property i have is worth a lot of money. then you can use it as
collateral in essence. or if you're trying to talk to the tax man about property taxes on the same property, you say, oh, it's not worth anything. it's a dump. i can't sell it. and so are you basically acting in good faith in either of those instances? and so the accountants have a lot of information. the information starts with donald trump, which they put together, you know, for material that he has to give to, you know, to the places he pays taxes and the banks he gets money from. the question is whether that isn't somewhat fraudulent information. and so there are two questions, whether trump gave bad information purposefully, and whether there is any, you know, sort of out for him in that the banks or the companies he's dealing with know that with trump you can't trust what he says. >> right. >> so let's look at -- let's take a quick look at what
michael cohen say about this. >> it was my experience that mr. trump inflated his total assets when it served his purposes, and deflated his assets to reduce his real estate taxes. >> well, i think so. i think he can hand over the information. they have gotten, we know the prosecutors have information. they went to the supreme court once or twice to fight over this and got it. now they have the fellow to walk them through financial records and incredibly difficult particularly if they are designed obscure real facts and to play around with figures. so now they have this fellow in there who really is under tremendous penalty if he lies saying what does this mean? does that mean? do you go back to trump?
did trump tell you to do this? did the trump organization tell you to do this? to go through this material, you need a guide. they have that guide. >> very interesting coming out here. late in the year as we look at also a transfer of power from the election in the new york d.a.'s office. david corn, thank you for walking us through it. when we come back, an eye on the house floor vote and what liz cheney is doing that may scare some republicans. s doing that me some republicans and we need more time. so, we want kisqali. living longer is possible and proven with kisqali when taken with a nonsteroidal aromatase inhibitor in premenopausal women with hr+, her2- metastatic breast cancer. kisqali is a pill that's significantly more effective at delaying disease progression versus a nonsteroidal aromatase inhibitor alone. kisqali can cause lung problems or an abnormal heartbeat, which can lead to death. it can cause serious skin reactions, liver problems, and low white blood cell counts that may result in severe infections. tell your doctor right away if you have new or worsening symptoms,
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during this house floor debate as she discusses how lawmakers including fellow republicans on the house floor were pleading with mark meadows during the insurrection attack. they are the ones that will vote on whether to make sure that congress a co-equal branch gets all the evidence or mr. meadows is allowed to run and ride. some begged for time to stop. we'll keep watching this including msnbc colleagues that will have full coverage that's set to take place tonight on msnbc. we'll be right back. ght on msnbc. we'll be right back. elief. dissolves quickly. instantly ready to start working. so you can bounce back fast with alka-seltzer plus. now available for fast sinus relief. ♪ it wasn't me by shaggy ♪ you're never responsible for unauthorized purchases on your discover card.
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safe and gentle relief for children's noses. let me put it like this, every night is a good night to watch "the reidout" but tonight you might have to watch the whole thing because it's a big news night and "the reidout" with joy reid will have you covered. >> it's not always exciting what is coming out of the hill but it is today. so we're excited about it. thank you very much, ari. appreciate it. have a wonderful night. good evening. indeed, we begin "the reidout" with breaking news from capitol hill. within the next hour, the united states house of representatives will likely vote to refer donald trump's former chief of staff who also happens to be a former colleague as a member of congress, if they vote