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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  December 16, 2021 12:00am-1:00am PST

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to be quivering in their boots. tonight, justin stockton and jennifer lawrence will both join me for their first interview together, to talk about what they know about january six. guess what congressman just outed themselves as one of the lawmakers texting mark meadows? >> this is as wrong as it gets. i think deep down, everybody knows. it >> plus, why joe biden is pausing the push for build back better. one -- >> doctor anthony fauci on whether america is ready for a massive wave of omicron cases. when all in, starts right now. >> good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes, we are starting to learn the names of the lawmakers behind text messages that donald trump's then chief of staff mark meadows turned over to the committee investigating the january 6th interaction.
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earlier this week, those texts were read into the record by members of the committee before they voted. i today, one of those anonymous lawmakers came forward himself. what jim jordan from ohio. of course one of donald trump's top allies in the house. sent a text to mark meadows the day before the insurrection about how the white house could attempted coup on january 6th. quote, on january six 2021, vice president mike pence, as president of the senate, should call on all of the electoral votes that he believes are unconstitutional as no electoral votes at all. in accordance with guidance from founding father alexander hamilton in judicial precedents. i think he means precedent. it goes on to include a lengthy citation from the federals paper like they do and text messages. now, nbc is reporting that that text was reportedly sent to jordan from a conservative lawyer and former adviser on donald trump's 2016 campaign and then jordan looked at the text and thought good idea. so he copy paste it and sent it along to the man closest to the
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president. hey, here's an idea for ending american democracy just popped into the old smartphone. remember, this man, congressman jordan, is the guy who republicans wanted on this committee. investigating the insurrection. well and his involvement was well, it seems wisely now, later vetoed by speaker of the house nancy pelosi. but i will say, and now makes much more sense why congresswoman liz cheney who sits on that committee, said that jim jordan could be called to testify. back in july. >> i think that congressman jordan may well be a material witness. he is somebody who was involved in a number of meetings in the lead up to what happened on january 6th. involved in planning for january six. certainly for the objections that day as he has said publicly. so he may well be a material witness. >> so jim jordan was literally passing along ideas to the white house on how to pull off the queue. and this is just the latest revelation from the committee. there will certainly be more to come. this morning in fact, committee
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smoke with a cooperating witness, a right-wing activists named jennifer lawrence, not that one. the interview follows one with her fiancée dustin stockton, which the committee conducted yesterday. now stockton and lawrence were front lawn soldiers in trump's movement to overturn the election. as the subpoena for stop and states, quote, according to press reports you and others working to organize the january 6th rally collectively communicate with president trump, white house officials, including chief of staff mark meadows, and others about the rally and other events planned to coincide with the certification of the 2020 electoral college results. he reportedly were concerned about plans by the stop the steal movement organize an on permitted march. that would reach the steps of the capitol as congress gathered to certify the election result. i'm going to speak to both of them in a moment about those communications, as well as some very serious allegations that they made on the record. including one that republican congressman paul gosar from arizona dangled a pardon from donald trump for an unrelated
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criminal investigation that the couple was tied to if they help plan a series of pro trump rallies leading up to january six. before that though, i think it is important to set some context about who these people are. they are not household names like mark meadows or steep in an. both of whom are stonewalling the investigation. both of whom who have had contempt shards recommend against them. stockton, lawrence, have always been on the fringes of right-wing politics. part of their brand is to generate tension through inflammatory statements. to put on a larger than life show. political call on the bonnie and clyde of mega world. they met on the 2020 -- 2012 presidential campaign of herman cain. the late businessman in right-wing pizza mogul, whose candidacy was something of a forerunner to the trump campaign four years later. came of course, died of covid last year after attending a big trump rally in oklahoma, in the midst of a pandemic. from the work on the keen campaign, the couple jumped
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around other tea party adjacent causes. stockton started organizing rallies for stars of the conservative movement. like former alaska governor sarah palin. remember her. but breitbart. ultimately ended up on team trump. the couple has had an on again off again relationship, with friendship steve bannon, who shares their affinity for troll politics. that working relationship took a turn in 2019, when they held bannon starter groups called we build the wall. an organization which raise tens of millions of dollars for trump supporters, in order to privately fund a privately constructed border wall. they didn't build three miles about of. the whole thing came tumbling down when bannon, along with others was arrested. bannon arrested on the all of a chinese billionaire, why not. charged with embezzling some of the money that he duped trump space into donating. kind of a mean thing to do to people that trust. you never saw trial for. stockton and lawrence, they had their rv raided by law enforcement. been stuck in a state of legal limbo. now bannon, he had that taking care of, because he was
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pardoned by trump before trump left office. on the last day if i recall correctly. stockton and lawrence have not yet been charged. the lingering threat of legal action loomed over their heads. which is presumably why after the 2020 election, it was so tempting, went according to the couple, congressman paul gosar reportedly dangled a blanket presidential pardon from trump, if they organized a stop the steal rally leading up to january six. we should know, gosar calls allegations false and defamatory. though, it makes sense why somebody would task that coupled with that job. because organizing rallies for right-wing causes what they do. they are both true believers in the big lie of a stolen election. which is how the march for trump bus tour came about. the couple traveled across the country to mobilize support for the dangerous and false idea that donald trump had in fact won the 2021 election, one of course he did not. and that to her culminated in the now infamous rally at the ellipse. that is the circle outside the white house. which was also organized by
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these. to buy stockton and lawrence. you probably saw footage of it a lot of the last 20 months. we've played a lot. john eastman, the guy who wrote the coup. memo congressman brooks of alabama who's wearing a bulletproof vest. and of course the president, donald trump was there to. the ellipse rallies where they all with the crowd into a frenzy and sent the marching towards the capital. >> if we are right, a lot of them will go to jail. so. let's have trial by combat. >> today is the day american patriot start taking down names and kicking ass. and we fight, we fight like hell, and if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore. we are going to walk down pennsylvania avenue. i love pennsylvania avenue. and we are going to the capitol. >> we all know what happened afterwards. the mob attacked the capitol.
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trying to unseat american democracy. now stockton alone say they were upset by that last trump speech. so upset they immediately returned to their hotel room and insisted that they did not storm the angry mob. all evidence reports that being true. there's no pictures or anything like that. in the days and weeks after the event, they said they took issues with the violence. they wanted the organizations they plan with the plan the rallies more forcefully. the couple also a time a mega sellout tour to shame the republican members of congress who in voted to impeach trump in his role in incited that violent insurrection. it will stop now says he believes joe biden won the election, he and lawrence are still intimately involved in the movement that started before any votes we've been cast. continued two weeks after the election and build up towards january six. up to the faithful moment we just played when the president instructed people to go to the capitol and fight. they were true believers they work to sow doubt in the democracy. and now, to their credit, their air cooperating with the committee investigating the
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insurrection. including turning over with their lawyers calling a treasure trove of documents. joining us now our justin stockton and jennifer and lawrence. who both helped plan the january 6th rally on the islands, for cooperating with the insurrection. russian they are accompanied by dawson's attorney josh mashed. it is good to have you both on. let me just start with your experience of facing the committee and i understand there is probably ground rules of what you can and can't say of what transpired. but if you could take me through boston's experience yesterday, i believe your sworn in in a post. well i just watched her introduction chris. and that is exactly the kind of misinformation that drove us to put the tour together in the first place. >> what was -- >> the way you characterized it. i think it's important to set the record straight. >> sure. >> the characterization that we were dangled a pardon by paul
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gosar in order to put these events together, just simply doesn't match the fact. we have been willing to turn every single thing over. we started the tour before we ever heard from joe's art. congressman gosar, who has been a dear friend of jennifer lynn lawrence, and mine. would've done it for us anyway. two of us don't need pardons. we haven't been charged with any crimes. not once. and so, the idea of your characterization that we were dangled in some way that we were going to get a pardon motivated us personally. those charges, everything that i had, everything that i put together, the indictment from the best tee and why, every piece of evidence is from the board members and the original board members. the charges and the indictment
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were trumped up. they were used to destroy the political network that included the ceo of the winning 2016 campaign. >> let me just stop you right there -- let me be clear with you. i have zero talk in the fight about what happened with you and paul gosar. i don't know what the facts are. i know that they were federal indictments. so let me just ask you this. to clarify. you had a phone conversation with paul gosar, chief of staff, right? >> we did talk. >> and he said that paul gosar had been talking to the president specifically about pardons. >> correct, yes. >> so in a conversation with you in which he is praising your work organizing the rallies, he also tells you that the congressman had a conversation with the president of united states about pardons, correct? >> yes. that did happen. >> okay. whether that is a dangler. not people can judge. i don't care whether it is a
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dangler not. i just want to be clear about the facts. are you talk to the chief of staff, and he said that gosar had a conversation to the president about pardons. and we have to, know the president did follow through and part in an individuals involved with steve bannon who was facing incredible -- criminal indictment. >> i think that this is somewhere where we will be a little more in agreement, chris. which is of course that trump pardons the one guy, the guys who are indicted, was all the money to fight. it the trample amputee war hero who wasn't a lawyer, wasn't a political -- . we brought people like steve bannon and kris kobach, and we feel really bad about that but we brought them in to protect. and yet, the one person who still caught the charge, brian
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in particular got left up to dry. so he thinks that he is the only one who could get something from. it that has been the hardest thing for me and jen to deal with. which at this point there were several things that we saw along the way with trump. frankly, we made some excuses for him. and excuses for why michael cohen or stephanie will call us had run into trouble with the. but for us when he directed people to the capital at the six. we revealed to the committee that there was an internal conflict that was ongoing. inside the organizer groups about what the program and what the day on january six should
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look like. we kind of lost that battle. and we didn't realize we lost that battle until president trump told people to walk down to the capitol. and we put several events in d.c. before. we knew the kind of logistics it took to do that safely. the marshals, the security, the stage, the sound. all the things you have to be able to do to safely manage a crowd of that size. and we knew that wasn't in place, and we knew that the people that they had asked to leave that were not people who should ever be associated with something as solemn as the white house. and so for us, it was devastating. it was very deflating. and it is one of those snap back to reality moments where you look back over all of the previous warning signs that you have ignored. you have to challenge yourself. >> so, i want to get your thoughts on this jennifer. i just want to know that when you talk about trump pardon the
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one guy that he got something out of, the idea of a pardon in exchange for maybe positive work seems to be not a implausible thing. at least in the mind of donald trump. we are going to put that in the category. jennifer, i want you to speak to one dustin just said. which is very interesting. joining a cluster of people who trusted donald trump and felt betrayed from him. do you feel like you are in that group now? is that where you are at? >> of course in the hindsight of 2020, looking back on some things, i have some questions that i would love to ask president trump. someone who i have known all will most a decade now. and who has played a huge pride in my life. i was one of the earliest supporter of president trump in
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2011. i was at trump tower when the republican committee chairs from all over the state got together to beg him to run for governor. and at that time, he said that his path ran through d.c. and not albany. and he knew right then and there, he convinced me right then and there that i have been a solid trump supporter. but following, we build the wall, the day after we were rated, we are completely innocent in this. president trump came out on his twitter and started throwing us under the bus that we are showboating. going after the project. and when we raised that money we did it in a very trumpian way. a way that we hope president trump would approve of building on private land and private donors. to see him come out and throw us under the bus, it was very hurtful. and then you know as things progress we thought that maybe he was still mad at steve.
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maybe there was something else. and then we saw what have been from us losing our bank accounts and what happened to us on media. we are talking about election interference or election fraud, i would say send to ship plays a huge part in that. >> i want to ask you about -- >> i just want to say that donald trump calling your showboat is like michael jordan calling you the greatest ever at basketball. i kind of took it as a compliment. >> okay, you got that. in let me just follow-up. there is a key factual claim that you're making here. which i just want to follow up on because i think it's key. and then i'll come back to one more thing. and then all that you guys go on with your day. so, the key factual claim which i think is fascinating is essentially an internal debate that emerges among the organizer about what happens after. and if you have ever organized something, you know that internal debates about things like this happen all the time.
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it is power of the cooks. power in the kitchen. >> what you are saying is there's a group that wants to mobilize that crowd and send them off towards the capital. without a permit, we should know. without security. without any sort of checks for who would control the crowd, who would lead, them who would make sure that things don't get out of hand. and you are in the opera sit saying that we shouldn't do. that and the moment you lost that internal debate is when the president of the united states said -- to the crowd that now you are going to come with me down to the capitol so that they can hear you, how anger you are. that is what you are seeing. that is what you are telling the committee. jennifer? >> absolutely. and i'm quoted in the news, he said it from the stage but you can go look at that quote. and at this point, we didn't
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know that our plan for that day was that we were supposed to stay at the ellipse all day. we were being told that we could stay there 12 to 14 hours until all of the electors had been seated up on capitol hill. and it was portrayed to us that if the electors were seated for president biden that trump would recognize those results. so he wanted the largest crowd ever. this is what was portrayed to us at the lips. if he had to give whatever his form of his sayonara speech was, he wanted the biggest crowd there possible. and that was our plan. so the minute that we realize, oh my god, you are marching those people. we have nothing in place. there is nothing. what are you doing? and it was so disheartening, so dissed fleeting. and it's really not okay. >> last question to you, dustin. i want to level everything.
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you're going around the country saying this election was stolen. you do get that it wasn't stolen, right? that smart magic didn't manipulate votes and italian satellites did not get in. the ghost did not come back to steal votes. there wasn't 50,000 votes stuffed in his suitcase. all of those claims were not true, right? >> again, for jennifer and, i we have some personal issues. just like how i would ask you, do you now admit that the russian means that you guys ran 24 hours a day in the early days of the trump, that got maybe 7 million impressions -- >> you've gotta cite something specifically. >> -- well you are undermining the fact. that >> -- we are not talking about that. what i am saying is that. >> those were times of
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ridiculousness. >> -- dustin, what i'm trying to say is that. >> joe biden is the president. >> no, i want something more than that. the claim that the election was stolen. that there was a widespread of manipulating a balance. from the software's two individuals that were systematically broadly stealing votes. i just want to establish a clear reality. here >> those specifically are false claims. >> great. >> democrats and republicans. >> we've made so much progress here dusted. >> every floor, whoever loses then goes on to say, well it was broken this way and broken that way. it's not because that there aren't things that aren't broken and should be done better with balloting, with the way that we verify people. the way that i had to make sure that everybody has access to
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voting. >> those are policy disputes. >> -- partisanly, what we do is the left fights, when they lose we should really all be in favor of just broadly improving the system. >> i think that -- >> i also want to add. >> i don't think that people should carry a lie about a false election, or storm a capital, or attempt to override the votes from voters. which i think all of us agree. on dustin stockton and jennifer lynn lawrence you gave me a lot of time tonight. i wish you well. i don't know what the future holds for you but -- >> i think chris, that there's a conversation to be had and i think that this is the problem with america. we don't have these conversations enough. >> it was great. >> we can sit down and have these conversations. we can really move forward and find common ground where there is common ground.
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>> i think that it's good to start with the don't violently stormed the capitol as common ground. which i think we share. and also the election wasn't stolen. >> dustin stockton and jennifer lynn lawrence, thank you so much for being here. that was fascinating. the latest piece from the maada -- mona charen i think it was interesting when dustin said that he was now in the company of michael cohen and others. there was a funny pattern that we have seen over the years of people saying, i trust the guy, i like the guy, he threw me under the bus. i no longer trust him. and it's remarkable at a sort of pattern recognition level how often that has happened. >> you would think that people could be able to stop this from
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a distance. trump does this to so many people so consistently. but there still seems to be this tendency on the far assumption that it hasn't happened to me yet. so i still like. and i don't know. it's a little pathetic honestly. and those two people, i am glad you were able to find common ground on the storming of the capital. and yes, the election was not stolen. but honestly the big lie was the catalyst for the attack on the capitol. without the lie you don't have the reach that impelled people to violence. they are part of the great dysfunction in the society. >> yes, i would also say, philip, one thing that i saw them do see is that there are all these sort of stacked versions of the big lie. there is the most obviously manifestly insane stories of
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how the election was rigged. and then you fall back, and you get back to big tech center's saying that they change their mailing procedures. which i think is a constitutional prerogative for the state legislator. that is the gentleman's version of it. which is like the josh -- and we don't recognize it. >> exactly. there was this very pointed effort, as donald trump was making these claims about election fraud in the wake of the 2020 election, to try and come up with the base for. it and you're right, josh hawley saying that he was going to object to the election mainly because of these changes to the law, which had already been adjudicated. and then ted cruz came around and flagged similar claims saying that we just need time to review these things. they were trying to come up to a way to both appeal to donald
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trump's. saying that the donald trump votes were stolen. by then, they would say that there were legal issues where they have strong concerns. and it trickles all the way down. just last night, on fox news, you saw someone making these claims actually was stolen because donald trump's text message system was shut down by these major mobile carriers. which there was an accident that happened in july of next year. but the fact that they have to come up with these ideas for how this actually occurred that led to not have to buy into these conspiracies. >> which gets you back to the legitimacy of. it which is one jordan comes out today saying that he passed this idea that mike pence could lunar laterally invalidate these electoral votes. at some level, what is publicly admitted to and happening in private is a assault on whether people can pick their own rulers are not.
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and people did it all over the place. in every direction. >> it is really disgusting and worrisome. what is happening on fox, one happens every single night. the lies that insight so much hatred. and the refusal to accept the legitimacy of elections. so without that, everything else has lost. if we have lost that. if every election is not going to be a battle that could get violent, then we are no longer a democracy, it's over. and we are teetering incredibly close to that. we really don't know. and what these fox figures have to do, which they haven't, is that they need to be concerned about riding. but of course if they have a subsequent story saying that it
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might be antifa, why would be -- those were his stormtroopers. he and he alone had the power to call them back. and they go on television and say, gee those didn't look like trump supporters to me. the whole scheme of lies and distortion and distractions that they have peddled ever since, it is just the most disgusting thing and i am sorry i almost don't have words for it. i am so upset. >> you are not wrong. although the vaccine stuff is tied. mona charen, philip bump, think you both really appreciated. next, covid outbreaks in the nfl. university scramble as cases rise. hospitals in many parts of the country are at the brink. we have doctor anthony fauci to address those alarm bells right after this. gh after this
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it's another day. and anything could happen. it could be the day you welcome 1,200 guests and all their devices. or it could be the day there's a cyberthreat.
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only comcast business' secure network solutions give you the power of sd-wan and advanced security integrated on our activecore platform so you can control your network from anywhere, anytime. it's network management redefined. every day in business is a big day. we'll keep you ready for what's next. as much as no one wants to hear comcast business powering possibilities. this, especially during the holidays, it is looking more and more likely that we are in for a big surge in covid cases around the country. the evidence is everywhere. in places doing the most testing right now, the numbers are staggering. last week, coronavirus readings in boston area wastewater, which is a really good surveillance system, showed a dramatic. rice arise not seen since the january search. the nfl players association released a statement today,
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pushing for daily covid testing. after 75 players tested positive on monday and tuesday alone. at this pace, the league will have more positive player tests this week than they had for the first three months of the regular season. that was 110. cornell university shut down after surge in cases. there was over 1100 student cases this week. that is even though 97% of the population is vaccinated. cornell's vice president, for university relations said, virtually every case of the omicron variant to date has been found in fully vaccinated students. we have not seen evidence of significant disease in our students today. that is good and welcome news. but right now there is lots of hospitals around the country that are still dealing with delta outbreaks. an expert on infections disease, they told in weeks to come what
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we got here might be a perfect storm. a more infectious variant along with upcoming all the day travels. and so we are concerned about what we are going to see later this month and early in january. so, how should we be thinking during this next phase? what can you do about? it doctor anthony fauci is here with us. all right, doctor fauci when we had you lost on you were in that window where we are waiting to see data about omicron. and now we have a lot of preprint data from lab studies. we also have, a fair amount of data of what it is doing in the world because of sequencing and surveillance. is it fair to say that our best understanding right now is that it is more transmissible than delta. at the most transmissible variant that we have faced yet? >> i think it's fair and accurate to say that, chris. it's no doubt. if you look at it's doubling
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time it is really quite low. it is somewhere around three days. which means that, if you do the math on that, and you have it in your community, pretty soon it's going to be totally dominating. that is what happened in south africa. that is what's going on in the uk. and i think that we can expect the same thing to have been here in the united states over the next few weeks. no doubt, it is a highly transmissible virus. >> again, i don't want to freak anyone out. i think that people who are watching this program most of them are vaccinated, and i hope that most of your vaccinated. i don't to freak people out. but i do think people should mentally prepare. we are going to see a lot a lot of cases. probably more than we have ever seen before. because we no longer have essentially non-pharmaceutical interventions, social distancing, bars close. none of that is happening. it's probably not coming back. there is a lot of circulation happening. people should understand that
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this is probably what the next 4 to 6 weeks look like. >> well there's no doubt that there's gonna be a lot of infections, particularly for the reason that you said. we are moving in society more frugally. we have the cold weather keeping people indoors. we have the holiday season associated with travel. so those were real challenges when it comes to a highly transmissible virus. somewhat of encouraging news is that if you look at all the data that we have gotten thus far from south africa and from the uk, which clearly have more experience at this point than we do with omicron, that the vaccine, although the efficacy to prevent infection has dramatically gone down, when you get that boosts, that third shot of a two dose mrna, it reconstituted pretty well. particularly for severe diseases that might lead to hospitalization. so i don't think that you are
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going to see, for sure, a lot more infections. i think that the vaccines as good as they are are going to still allow breakthrough infections. what we hope will have been, it looks like it is going to be the case based on what we are seeing in south africa. that particularly if you get boosted, your are protected from severe diseases. so big challenge on infection. for protection with the booster is going to be good. >> we should also state that the data you presented earlier today shows some of the. the third shot. so the first takeaway that i have had, and we've been saying this on the program, is that you were upfront about this, and there were some centers that were really. wrong and i think the editor didn't do it in good faith. people should get boosted. the number one thing, if you are watching this and saying,
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what should i do? if you're not boosted, get boosted. is that your advice? >> absolutely, chris. there is no doubt about that. the data are overwhelmingly strong in that direction. no doubt about it. >> there are two other things to consider here. one is testing. there is reporting today that the white house is a little concerned about testing capacity. i have already started to see anecdotally that we have higher transmission here in new york city, longer lines for testing. it is very hard to catch up to exponential threads with the linear systems of human markets and institutions as we have seen time and time again with this. are you concerned and prepared to handle the kind of testing search in a world where we have half 1 million cases a day? >> yes. we absolutely are revving up dramatically the testing capability.
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we made an investment of about three billion dollars that maybe anywhere between 2 million and 500 million tests per month available. and you have heard what the president said about getting free testing or reimbursable testing. but we really have to get even more than we are doing right now. i have said so many times, chris, we have to flood the system with tests. so that everybody and everybody can readily have a test when they wanted. we are going in that direction rapidly. hopefully we will get there soon. >> and finally, the question en masse. kathy hochul has put into place a mask coordinates for certain institutions in the areas that don't require them. what is your recommendation about masking in public spaces at this point? and how omicron fractures -- factors in. >> we should be doing it for
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delta. mainly we should be wearing masks and indoor congregate settings. particularly the case when you don't know the vaccination status of the people that are around you. you really should be wearing a mask. there is no doubt about that. this is a highly transmissible virus. we are in a search right now. it just doesn't make any sense not to do it. >> all right, doctor anthony fauci. that was clear and helpful. i appreciated. >> thank you, good to be with you. >> next, the republicans continue to bash the presidents covid relief money. they sure don't seem to have any problem spending it. >> i have had people ask me from time to time in the state, christy, why don't you just give the federal money back? after all it's the taxpayers money. well that was my first thought to. to
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soft quota, she was elected in 2018 after serving at the states congresswoman. she is a close ally of president trump. campaigning for the 2020 election, and claiming the results were fraudulent. she has aspiration to be in the white house herself. and from day one, kristi noem has been predicting doubly a vocal credit. she stopped everything from vaccine mandates, economic policy, and especially about her displeasure of the 1.9 trillion dollar covid rescue bill. last week, in the governor's annual budget address, no explained that the money was a hand up. >> we should all celebrate that our state is doing great. but it shouldn't be a celebration where bigger government is the result. so a south dakota's revenue goes up, i want to make sure that we are only spending that revenue on necessary investments that benefit our people. now there is another kind of revenue that has come into south dakota this past year. and that is revenue that is not
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brought here in the traditional sense. it is a giant handout from washington d.c.. now that money isn't appearing out of thin air. those are taxpayer dollars to. and it's money that is being barred from the future, from our children, our grandchildren and beyond. >> when that giant handed actually came to south dakota, she didn't turn it away. she opened her hand and took the million dollars slated for her state to invest in local water projects. making housing more affordable and to build new daycare centers. governor noem, highlighted those spending plants in the budget address where she criticize the same bill. she just wanted to attack. which i guess is better than rejecting. it she even paraded around. there was mike dewine who said, -- and the governor also
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publicized his plans of investing 100 million dollars to expand high speed broadband. the second paragraph of that really said that the funding came from the american rescue plan act. desantis also revealed his spending plan, he said the act from the biden administration wants to be used for his most politically popular program. including a gas tax break. and 1000 dollar bonuses for police and teachers. in fact, this is good news actually. not a single governor has declined to take a stimulus offer from them. if push comes to shove, they want the credit for what joe biden and congressional democrats got done. without a single republican vote. republica vote
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miss crawly, it's me mr. moon. i haven't heard from you in awhile, i'm starting to worry here. ♪ grab a brush and put on a little make-up ♪ make-up. ♪ hide the scars to fade away the shake-up ♪ you whoo. your destination is on the right. okay. whaaa! >> do you still believe that you can get the build back better act passed this year? >> mister president, will kind of progress has you made on the build back better plan? >> some. >> despite the optimism from joe biden. nbc news has reported that we will miss passing before the
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end of the year. pushing things off until 2022. according to sources from majority leader chuck schumer. despite the back and forth with senator joe manchin, who is still a major holdout on the bill. on top of that, senate democrats haven't even cleared all the procedural voting. which basically means the whole thing can be pushed off even longer. apart from this delay having lasting consequences for democrat, there's immediate ramification. this is the last day that families are receiving monthly payments from the child tax credit. the passage of the build back better, that could be the final check of 35 million found the sea. though some of them will also get it if they filed their taxes next year. congress member ro khanna, it is here with us tonight. >> every time i talk to a member on the house side they are in the same boat as the rest of us.
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[laughs] >> i text him and i say what do you know? >> we have done our part. we set a bill, we compromised. we started a 3.5 trillion. and we need him now to deliver the president needs to look at him in the eye and say to deliver the vote. we want to ten-year number. we don't want to just for one. you're fine, we have the tenure number. that was the 3.5 trillion. you can't have it both ways. >> but here's what he's saying. and i want to give you what manchin is saying. he's saying now, that he is giving your budget, because never mind that used passed in one year for the defense program a bill, -- >> 30 billion more than the president wanted? >> correct. he said the budget is one point, five and then he said this weird thing about how if that is the budget, you should make it permanent, and you should figure out what's in. they're >> well here is the problem. to make it permanent it is 1.4 trillion on the child tax credit.
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we don't have the republican vote. so we will make that permanent. you have to increase the budget. or you want to take away every climate provisions? you want to take away universal preschool? you want to take away the childcare? he knows it's not possible. >> then where are we? where are we right now? >> where we are is president biden needs to say i got the progressives to compromise. they gave up half their stuff. i looked at them in the eye and said, i have the people. it's it is time that we vote. this is my credibility. my reputation. have the vote for him. bearing the vote. no >> i will remind you that mitch mcconnell tried that on the ac and and donald trump tried to. it was a high stakes thing and i will never for the rest of my life, remember when john mccain came up and went, no. >> here's a difference, they were trying to take away things from the working class, we're trying to give things to the working class. i think it's very difficult. and then if people tunnel, we will do it sub scornfully. we'll see what he is supposed to. i just think people are tired of waiting. the longer this strings out, the harder it's going to be to
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get this passed. >> i want to talk about a topic that has been in the news recently, which is student debt. there was, starting in the trump administration, a sort of suspicion of payment on student debt. as part of covid relief, those are set to go back in february. people that old money are getting emails. thus far, the administration declined to either cancel student debt or postpone it further. what do you think they should do? >> i think that it's wrong, and it's awful politics. president biden campaigned $10,000 of student loan forgiveness. he needs to deliver. and they should continue not having people repay until it's tied to some student forgiveness. otherwise, they're going to say okay, i'm going to have to pay loans under trump and now under president biden, i'm going to have to pay -- >> some people say that they have essentially unilateral ability to council. that they should just cancel the 10, 000, and just do that. >> that is my understanding.
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and that is what people smarting than me have looked into. they say they have -- >> until the five justices of supreme court say, no. >> so let them. sue say that we want you to have to pay thousands of dollars of student loan. >> better to acts for forgiveness than permission. >> this is an issue that we talk to young folks about. they are under dead. these are the things that motivate them. and i can tell you how dumb the politics are to have them starting in february. >> what do you think? there is a lot of back and forth about where the economy is right now. and one of the things i wanted to talk to you about is how i understand that inflation freaks people out. i understand why it does. high gas prices, etc -- but i think that it's under appreciation how progresses, progressive caucus, the biden administration, even working with trump, we just wanted to sign checks and didn't care
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about the bill actually foresaw a tremendous amount of very progressive macro policies. that no one seems to want to take credit for. because the environment right now is very uncertain inflations are high and people are pitstop about. it >> i think you make a good, point i stand by everything we did. i stand by the stimulus checks, i stand by the american rescue plan, i stand by infrastructure, i stand by having investments in childcare and climate. and yes, obviously inflation has to be addressed. but that is probably the feds issue. they have been buying bonds. the fed needs to deal with that. not that we have some politics hidden in fiscal policy. we are helping the working class. >> let's talk about democracy. today they said they're going to try to work towards passing some versions of the bill that passed the house to sort of refortify american democracy. it's unclear whether they can clear the filibuster or go around it. that aside, what is your perspective as these january
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six hearings and investigations play out? you are colleagues with these people that are actively participating in an anti democratic push. >> right. >> what was the most shocking to me, donald trump jr.'s tax tomatoes. saying, please tell my father. you know that we are in a bad shape when his son can't get through to him and is asking meadows to stop donald trump. it shows how outrageous it was what was going on. >> i wonder as well, do you think that this is having the effect of -- it seems to be part of what is happening here is reminding everyone what they felt in that moment. but the felt in the 12 and 16 hours later. trump has done a good shop, and fox has done a good job of reminding people. >> we are learning how serious it was. i didn't realize the extent of it. the power point presentation saying he was going to declare a national emergency? this is the stuff we read about in other countries. they literally had a plan. and here's what i find scary.
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it wasn't just in donald trump's head. there were 20, 30 people who knew about. and they were close to going through with it. >> congressman ro khanna, good to have you here. >> it's always a pleasure. >> be safe, have a great holiday. >> that is all in for tonight, will be with the rachel maddow show next. >> are you glad you did the interview? >> i guess. what are you gonna do. hey, i go back and forth on this. it is true, we all share this country together, right? we do. and they are doing the right thing by this committee. i am interested in what they have to say. but to the degree that which people are wanted in the sense of persecution is so dangerous and toxic for the body politics is -- that's my review. >> even when you can find a place to meet. which you did by taking a long time to get there, even still, it has to be about well if you
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scored a point on me than i have to score a point on you. since we are coming from different places we each have to win and if we don't win by destroying the other than it's not a real win. i mean, that dynamic is true. even when you fight for that common ground. i thought that you did a great job with with it, and i'm glad it was you and not me. >> i had that thought while i was doing it. like, rachel kind of warned me off this last night. >> it wasn't a warning. it was like, oh, really. okay. >> well, you know. it's like baseball. >> glass of wine for you tonight, my friend. well done. thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. it's really good to have you here. this past month, abc news reporter jonathan karl published a book called "betrayal" about basically the great unraveling of the trump presidency. the final act of the trump show. it hasn't even been a year since