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tv   The Reid Out  MSNBC  December 16, 2021 4:00pm-5:00pm PST

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our system as a whole does not need massive change and restructuring. that does it for me tonight. "the reidout" with joy reid is up next. hey, joy. >> how you doing, jason? it's been fun trying out this west coast lifestyle you. we're out here in the west coast. i'm kind of linebacking it. i'm feeling comfortable. >> we're still christmas ready, though. >> always christmas ready, always. always have our hats ready for christmas. have a wonderful evening. thank you, jason, thank you so much. >> cheers. good evening, everyone. we begin "the reidout" with intense scrutiny of mark meadows as he awaits potential charges of criminal contempt. there are now indications that he is far more responsible for the big lie than was previously known. the "washington post" is out with a comprehensive report detailing how meadows was the chief enabler to a president who was desperate to hold on to power. it portrays the chief of staff who threw the gates to the oval office wide open, acting as a
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facilitator to conspiracy theorists, and who was always eager to present trump with new material to bolster his false claims. as one former administration official said, people received voice mails from election conspiracy theorists who would begin their message by saying meadows had shared the number and suggested they call. now let's not forget that among other things, meadows was in possession of a power point presentation that recommended that trump declare a national security emergency, a move straight out of the authoritarian playbook. the committee today subpoenaed the person responsible for promoting that power point. described by "the post" as a retired army colonel with a background in psychological influence operations, aka information warfare, who described himself on his linkedin page as the founder, forklift driver at one shot distillery and brewery at dripping springs, texas. and who reportedly spoke to meadows up to eight or ten times as well as to members of
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congress. that proposal is among a long list of conspiracy theories and election plots that were circulated among trump's inner kirk circle. as well as the bonkers italy gate and chinese thermostat conspiracy. all of which meadows was apparently willingly or even eagerly open to handing over to a president who is desperate to cling to power. meadows also had at least half a dozen accomplices in congress who served as willing foot soldiers in trump's attempted coup. people like jim jordan, paul gosar, mo brooks and louie gohmert, meadows was a former chair. "the new york times" reveals they collaborated with the trump campaign on a strategy that would become a blueprint for trump supporters in congress. hammer home the idea that the election was tainted, announce legal actions being taken by the campaign and bolster the case with allegations of fraud. but they also took real steps to
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actually overthrow the election. they bombarded the justice department with dubious claims of voting irregularities. they pressured members of state legislatures to commit audits. they were actively trying to subvert democracy. and they're the same people who could head up crucial committees if republicans take back the house next year. joining me now is kirk bardella, adviser to the dnc and the dccc. and kirk entrepreneur lit, "new york times" best-selling author of "the gatekeepers: how the white house chief of staff define every presidency." there are a couple of different kinds of chiefs of staff. there are the ones who tell the president things they don't want the hear, and then there are the kind that are simply enabler, particularly of a narcissistic style of president. here is a story, it's not from you, it's from tim alberta. it was in politico in 2020, and this is a story i think that
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defines who mark meadows was. when john boehner found out there was a group of these freedom caucus members who were plotting to make sure that he was not going to be speaker and to vote against him. and while meadows had not actually voted against boehner, this is what boehner recounts to tim alberta. boehner was on the couch sitting across from me in his office. suddenly he slides off the couch, down onto his knees and puts his hands together in front of his chest. he says mr. speaker will, you please forgive me. this incident was witnessed by other people, including his chief of staff who described it as the strangest behavior ever seen in congress. that's the type of person meadows was as a person of congress. what do you make of the kind of enablers he became when donald trump tried to overthrow an election? >> well, you know, that's classic meadows. i've always thought as meadows as not so much a traditional chief as a kind of glad-handing butler or maitre d' whose only
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measure of success was how much he could please the president. think about this. no one was more loyal to donald trump than jared kushner be. but when kushner got one look at this star wars bar of crazy con spears theoriests that were hanging out in the oval office, he literally got out of town. he got out of town and flew to the midwest and didn't come back to down until january 6, coincidentally. meadows was all in. he couldn't get enough of this crazy stuff. and of course he ultimately became the chief crackpot conspirator in the plot to overthrow the election. so that's classic meadows. >> and, you know, it is interesting. because even william barr too, william barr as much as a sycophant and willing to do basically do anything, sort of break the law himself for donald trump, when this was up, he's i'm out, bye-bye. he didn't want to participate. it strikes me, kurt, what brings together this group of people
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who were the sort of core plotters is yes, you have the new dummies, the people like boebert, the sort of lunkhead freshmen, but you also have a lot of people in this freedom caucus. and that's the tea party. and i think one of the big stories the media has missed is that the tea party went from being this extremist group that believed that president obama was not legitimate, that questioned president obama being president of the united states, that tried to undermine him and sometimes in some very racist and strange ways. they're now the core of the republican party. in the house in particular and some in the senate like rand paul. therapeutic the core of this conspiracy. is that something that you think that we've all missed in sort of telling the story of is the sort of modern republican party? >> it really is, joy. it would be easy if we all wanted to believe the fiction that what's happening right now with the republican party isn't new. it's a new phenomenon that none of us could possibly have seen coming. but really, all of this, the ingredients for this began during the years of the barack
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obama presidency. and delegitimizing a president, questioning the legitimacy of a standing president? that's not new stuff. that's what the republicans did for the entire duration of the barack obama presidency. you look at the cast of characters now. it's so true. mark meadows, mike pompeo, these are people who came of age during the time that they were investigating the obama administration. >> jim jordan. >> they were players on the oversight committee with folks like jim jordan, and they are the ones who spent years issuing hundreds of subpoenas, calling for hundreds of investigations, doing everything they could to use the instruments of power to try to cripple the first black president in the united states history. and now we're kind of see him move over and go from the fringes of the party to being the central nucleus center of the entire republican party, and it's something that we could chart over the last ten years. this didn't come out of nowhere. this isn't something we should all be blindsided with.
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it's been there the entire time. >> i feel like you have to start putting the pieces together. who joe biden is not just the joe biden who dared to beat donald trump after donald trump went all the way to ukraine to try to destroy him and his family and beat him any way. but he is also president obama's former vice president. right? he was with the black guy. he is part of the thing that they wanted to eradicate from american history. and he is still here and is now president. let's go into some of the things they did. because some of this stuff was absolutely wild. one of the things that's been overshadowed is one of the things that the right tried to use against hillary clinton is her emails. and the media, another big media failing, the media was obsessed with these emails. you had mark meadows using private email to do all this stuff. he is letting conspiracy theorists using private email. hillary clinton reacted saying my emails were about weddings and risotto. and the media is ho-hum when they're using private emails. but i think the other thing that i think is really big is the
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idea that this memo, and i have a copy of it right here, my version is black and white, but originally i think it was in color. the plot here had to do with psychological warfare. it started before the election even happened. this gentleman started -- this former colonel started in august of 2020 saying we're going to preset the idea that this election was fraudulent. it went to ceos, the guy from, the mypillow guy. this is a pretty comprehensive plot to overturn an election, including declaring a national security emergency. that ain't normal. your thoughts. >> yeah, it's staggering. and of course the exhibit poxsy hypocrisy is off the charts here. what meadows is clearly hiding here. can you imagine knowing what's already in the public record, which meadows voluntarily put out there. can you imagine what's on the encrypted app that he's got, the signal account or his private cell phone? i mean, this is unbelievably
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serious. and kurt's right that it's not new, but it's gone to an entirely new level. and i think the good news is that maybe that the january 6 committee doesn't have to convince republicans of anything. and it doesn't have to twin hearts and minds of the maga crowd. all it has to do, and it's a tall order, is lay out the evidence, and then this is on the department of justice, and it's on merrick garland. i was talking to fiona hill yesterday about this. there is always a risk when you start prosecuting the party that's out of party. you don't want to look like a banana republic to the rest of the world. but the much greater risk is to do nothing when you've got people red-handed trying to destroy our democracy. so i think the good news here is yes, the republican party is all in on the big lie, but there is something that can be done about it at the end of the day.
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>> i mean, the idea, again, this would be the number one headline in every newscast in this country if the barack obama administration, the obama-biden administration had said they were going plan a national security emergency to try to roll back the 2016 election because of foreign interference. they knew there was foreign interference. they put out an october information about foreign interference. had they then taken the next step and said because russia is interfering in our election, we're going declare a national security emergency, and we're going to communicate on private emails that we're going to do such an emergency and shut down the election of donald trump, and donald trump was a completely unfit human being who never should have been near the presidency. but had they done that, kurt, you can imagine and i can imagine, we both know what the media would have done and we both know what republicans would have done. let's play this real quick. these are five republican candidates for governor in minnesota, and they were asked a
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very simple question. did biden win the election. take a look. >> did president biden win the electoral college? >> again, i don't know. i think we have to take that attitude towards 2020. >> i group up in a suburb of chicago. and i can't tell you the last time chicago has had perfectly free and fair election. so this is not a new problem. >> i do believe there was voter fraud at massive scale across this country. >> i don't think the election was fair, but i do think we have the results that we have. the electoral college is the way we determine the election. >> the more we watch, the less they cheat. >> this is complete brainwashing, kurt. >> oh, brother. it's now a prerequisite if you want to run as a republican candidate in any election, local, state, federal, to deny the truth. they're an anti-democratic party. we talk about the slippery slope
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of do you prosecute people who are of the other party. when that other party has made the conscious decision to make itself a criminal organization, to make it an organization that harbors domestic terrorism, an organization devoted to ending democracy as you know it, then it's not an offensive act by the justice department, it's an act of self-defense of democracy. that's what it's there to do. and if we aren't willing to go that far to protect democracy, well, then dwoept deserve to have it in the first place. this is kind of our last stand here, joy. i tell you, if the republicans get back the reins of power in the 2022 election, the 2024 election. that will never relinquish it again. we're seeing the extraordinary lengths to which republicans are willing to go to throw out a fair and free election in 2020. if we let them back in the driver's seat of democracy, it's over. >> and we now know that jim jordan is one of the people forwarding text messages. i wonder what's going to happen with him. the congress going to act on him? let's do a hard turn. it's not really such a hard turn, chris whipple.
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we now know per "the washington post" that this same republican party, the official republican party, they've agreed to pay up to $1.6 million in legal bills for the former president, for donald trump. not for anything related to potentially interfeing in the election. not for the case that he is facing in georgia that could be a criminal proceeding regarding interfering in the election, but for his private legal expenses for more than ten years of shenanigans with his personal finances in his real estate. dream with me. the democratic national committee doing the same for any democrat, not that there is any democrat who has spent his whole life not paying taxes. but go ahead. your thoughts on this development. >> inconceivable. it never would happen. i don't think it should shock us that the republicans should do this. they are obviously all in on the big lie, on the notion of the stolen election. they are enthralled to trump. it's a cult of personality worthy of jonestown.
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and that's just the way it is. but, you know, i think that all we can do at this point is hope that the truth will come out through the january 6 committee. they're off to a great start, and a continuous drip, drip, drip of this kind of incriminating information may get us to a point where i once thought that the defining image of mark meadows was holding donald trump's coat as he delivered that speech that launched the insurrection. look, it may not be too much to hope that the defining image is a prison door clanging shut. it could happen if the evidence is brought to light. >> we shall see. >> in that case, it really won't matter how many republicans you convince. you've got to convince merrick garland. >> yeah. amen to that. and it is jonestown complete with them gulping the covid kool aid. thank you kurt bardella, chris
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whipple. next on "the reidout," new warnings about the rapid spread of omicron, with cases doubling every two to three days. but a member of one of america's most famous families sees opportunity in all of the death and despair. plus, the year will come to an end with no movement on voting rights or build back better. with the two usual suspects standing in the way and repeating the same lame excuses. and tonight's absolute worst say they hated the gift you got them and turned around and regifted it to someone else, hoping to get all the praise. "the reidout" continues after this. this - oh...oh. - what's going on? - oh, darn! - let me help. lift and push and push! there... it's up there. hey joshie... wrinkles send the wrong message. help prevent them with downy wrinkleguard. feel the difference with downy. ♪ ♪ ♪
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where's mom? she said she would be home in time for the show. don't worry, sweetie. she promised she'd be here for it. ooh! nice shot! thanks! glad we have xfinity, with wifi speed faster than a gig! me too! woah, look! mom is on tv! she's amazing! (cheers) xfinity brought us together, after all! power your whole home this holiday with wifi speeds faster than a gig. click, call, or visit a store today. sing 2 the kennedy name typically conjures up notions of sacrifice for the greater good. not misinformation and grift, which is more common with a trump. alas, the associated press did a deep dive into robert kennedy jr. and discovered that he and his charity, the children's
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health defense, have profited from a massive anti-vaccine campaign that uses slanted information and conspiracy theories to spread distrust of the vaccine. according to the ap, kennedy was named one of the disinformation dozen by the center for countering digital hate, which says that he and the children's self-defense website are among the top spreaders of false information about vaccines online. this comes as we are facing a winter tsunami of the delta and omicron variants. the centers for disease control is warning that deaths in the united states will soar by 73%, or more than 15,000 a week. the cdc also expects the united states to reach 1.3 million new infections by christmas. mayor bill de blasio announced today that new york city has experienced a significant increase in cases, and that the omicron variant is here in full force. in fact, new york state reported 18,000 new cases today alone, which is close to the pandemic
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record. reports of long lines attesting locations throughout the city are flooding social media. late this afternoon, president biden held a meeting with his covid-19 task force and delivered this message to the american people. >> every step will be taken. omicron has not yet spread as fast as it otherwise would have done and is happening in europe. but it's here now and it's spreading, and it's going to increase. for unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death for unvaccinated. the good news, if you're vaccinated and have your booster shot, you're protected from severe illness and death. >> the head of the world health organization warned that omicron is spreading at a rate not seen in any previous variant, and could overwhelm unprepared health systems. the university of pittsburgh medical center which has more than 40 hospitals and more than 8,000 beds is close to capacity and at times is rung over. in minnesota, the mayo clinic and other hospitals took out
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full-page ads in major state newports on sunday pleading with the public to get vaccinated and wear a mask. the add reads "we're heartbroken. we're overwhelmed." hospitalizations are up 21% throughout the country over the past two weeks. with me the founder and ceo of advancing health equity, and dr. robert davidson, in west michigan and executive director of the committee to protect health care. thank you both for being here. i want to read this piece that you wrote, dr. davidson, and you wrote this in "the new york times." i'm going read little bit. in a small hospital, our patients are our neighbors. friends and old high school classmates. the profound sadness of failing to save a life hits us every time. familiarity deepens our sadness, but more and more we feel frustrated and angry. losing a patient is never easily. losing one so senselessly when the death could have been avoided with a free, safe and effective vaccine is devastating. we've seen dr. corbett say the
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same thing as one of the people who invented the vaccines. at this point, should this many people be dying, even if there is a more transmissible variant? >> absolutely not. i mean, queer dealing with a delta surge. so i can't even imagine what omicron could bring. we're in a county that's only about 42 to 43% vaccinated fully. and again, these are folks i've been taking care of for two decades of my life and have sworn to take care of them. so when they come, in that's what you do. you take care of them. but it is extremely disheartening to seeing nurses crying on their way home from work because the person they went to high school with just got put on a ventilator and they know they're probably not going to make it's. >> and what do they say? these people that know you, that trust you, that know you've been treating. what is their reason for not being vaccinated? >> listen, people say i've heard that it can make you circumstances right. i've heard that so many times. and i explain to them how many people are in our hospital. we're in a small little critical access hospital, about 25 beds. every person but one over the past month has been covid
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positive. one goes home or one dies, effortly, and they get replaced with another. and i tell them that. i tell them the people we have to ship to bigger hospitals who need more advanced care. i tell them about all of this happening and just try to convince them. but they've been poisoned with this idea that a, covid is not a big deal from the beginning, and b, these vaccines will somehow make them sick. >> dr. blackstock, there is a lot of also confusion. i know people who were wary of the johnson & johnson vaccine because they heard it was less effective. and other people said, no get it. it's one shot and done there has been a lot of questions. now the cdc is saying that they actually do think pfizer and moderna are better. at this point, what do you recommend that people do? are you still in the camp of get whatever vaccine you can get and get it fast? or should we be pushing people to go and get pfizer and moderna, particularly if they're willing, given the surge to at least try to get vaccinated? >> right. so joy, in the beginning there
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was a scarcity of vaccines. >> yeah. >> that's why we were encouraging people to get whatever vaccine they could get. but now with this emerging data showing that the clotting issues with the johnson & johnson vaccine, especially among younger women, there is this issue that people maybe probably should take the mrna vaccine, and that is what is being recommended now. they do have higher efficacy, and that's been shown all along. so definitely based on the data we have at hand, i would recommend the mrna vaccines. >> and yet the mrna vaccines are the source of more conspiracy theories. the suspect of dispharma, there is some conspiracy theory to make you change your rna. and people think they're experts and go on facebook posts and do spike protein talks. they don't know anything about it. i don't know how we talk through people at this point over than send them to dr. davidson so he can tell them how many people are dying in front of him. i don't know what to do at this
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point. >> i think we've seen that facebook is a huge culprit in allowing these organizations and people to distribute, disseminate this information. our junior facebook posts have been shared widely. he has hundreds of thousands social media followers. i actually ran into some of the representatives of his organization at a predominantly black event over the summer giving out information entitled medical racism. but it was actually anti-vaccine propaganda. so it is just so -- and they're so well funded. so that is a problem. we have to start holding these social media platforms accountable, and that's not being done yet. >> and dr. davidson, i'm worried. i think a lot of people are changing their plans for the holidays, because they're worried about traveling. should we be ceasing and desisting in your view in terms of getting together for the holidays with anyone who is not in our pod, our group of people we've been around mostly pour
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the last year? >> yeah, i think that's the safest way to go. if you have people you know are fully vaccinated, particularly if they're boosted and they don't have symptoms, and if you can find a few rapid antigen tests before you get together and can do that, i think you go for it. we are going to have to live with this at some point. we can trust people in telling us they've been vaccinated, they've been boosted. but i wouldn't go anywhere near a group of people that i didn't know their status or i knew they were likely unvaccinated because i think you're just setting yourself up, you know. that viral load just goes up and up the more people you're around that have it. you're setting yourself up to be a breakthrough. >> just to be clear, is omicron more deadly or just more transmissible or both? >> so what we know now, it's definitely more transmissible. it can reinfect people who have had previous infection or have been vaccinated. the jury is still out on whether it's more deadly. but because it's more transmissible, the sheer numbers
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of people infected could drive hospitals to over capacity. >> dr. rob davidson, god bless for you what you're doing. dr. blackstock, gods bless you for what you're doing. have a happy holiday if you can. thank you for all you do. this is tough. still ahead, trying to figure out what conservative democratic senators want from the biden's key administrations is like trying to hit a moving target while blindfolded. initiative else feel like this may be an intentional effort to run out the clock? we'll be right back. are you tired of clean clothes that just don't smell clean?
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he must pass the billion dollar billion social spending bill, and added that we must also press forward on voting rights legislation as quickly as possible. the congress' christmas recess copping soon, both may be on life support. president biden and vice president harris held a virtual meeting this morning with key democratic senators to discuss next steps, a meeting president biden called productive. and while senate majority leader chuck schumer has signaled that he would like to move forward on voting right, arizona conservative democratic senator kyrsten sinema is also blowing up those plans, is already blowing up those plans, reiterating her support for the 646 threshold for legislation. joe manchin has demand any action on voting rights be bipartisan, while he also stalls the billion dollar billion bill with his incoherent opposition to a key element, the child tax credit. he either thinks it should be eliminated from the bill altogether, or be extended for ten years, in which he thinks it's too expensive. a nonsensical bag of oppositions
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that has been described as like nailing jell-o to the wall. manchin continues to stand in the way of build back better although in 2020th 1920% of west virginia children were living in poverty, the seventh highest rate in the country. manchin is also opposed to adding dental benefits to medicare in the bill, despite more than a quarter of his elderly constituents having no natural teeth. so it appears the only thing he is consistent about is -- joining me now amy klobuchar of minnesota. thanks for being here. >> thanks, joy. >> thank you. the congressional progressive caucus has called upon the senate to remain in session until build back better is passed. number one, is there any chance you all will remain in session? and if you did, would it make any difference with joe manchin and kyrsten sinema around? >> yes. i'm wearing my team blue suit today, joy, and i don't think i look like anyone that's ready to go home. i'm ready to get things done, and i know the president is as well.
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and in the senate right now, there are so many people that want to move forward, and that is because we are in the middle of a surge in this pandemic. we need to bring down the costs of pharmaceuticals, something we have never done, and it is more than over time to do it. something the republicans have voted against consistently. it is time to actually bring down the costs of child care and make it easier for people to go back to work. that's what build back better is about. that's what we are in the midst of a debate. and i would note that neither of these two senators have come away from the negotiating table. negotiations are going on as we speak. i was just with senator manchin for an extended period of time talking about the voting bill. and we can do two things at once. and with the voting bill, as you know, joy, that is about the senate rules. >> but respectfully, it does appear to be that senator manchin and senator sinema being at the table, it looks like a stalling tactic, i have to be honest. and the folks out here in the world that are watching what's
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going on in congress, it looks like manchin and cinema are trying to talk these bills to death. they don't support them. it's clear joe manchin does not want build back better to happen. at least he doesn't want to it happen this year if at all. kyrsten sinema claims she supports voting rights. she has done absolutely nothing to prove she supports it. she really cares more about the filibuster than saving democracy, my opinion. so i don't see what these negotiations, what is the point if they've made it pretty clear they want to kill the bill? both bills? >> okay, let's focus on voting first. number one, i would get rid of the fill buster in a minute if i could. i think it does not meet the challenges of our time. number two, both of those senators support the freedom to vote act that i spent the entire summer negotiating with senator manchin as a former secretary of state and several other senator, including warren atkin padilla. there is an agreement on the substance of voting bill, and it is so important with 8,000
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threats on members of congress since january 6 with local election officials leaving their positions because of threats against them, with over 400 bills as you have so well discussed on your show, over 400 bills that have been introduced to stop the freedom to vote. that's what the stakes are incredibly high. we can't wait. let me make clear. beth those senators support the bill. so the issue is the senate rules. what we are arguing with them about is this isn't about chaining the filibuster. it's actually about as senator byrd himself in the old days said, the rules should meet the circumstances of our time. the circumstances of our time right now is an assault on our democracy. byrd himself changed the rules several times. as you saw last week, joy, the rules were changed for the debt ceiling. the rules have been changed 160 carve-outs to the filibuster, and we are simply making the case to get this done and to allow the senate to debate the bill. i would disagree on the fact that they're against the voting
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bill. they're for the voting bill, and we are moving on the senate rules. on the other bill, they are negotiating with the white house on the details, especially senator manchin, but he has signaled a willingness to get this done. and i don't think our country can wait. do i get frustrated? of course i get frustrated, joy, but i just want the get this done. and these interest people we're working with right now. >> be the challenge is it's easy to say you're for the bills, but then when you oppose the only way to make the bills pass, because unfortunately there are no republicans, zero, not any that are willing to vote for either of these bills. both senator. they know the only way is by changing the rules. being against changing the rules is being against the pieces of legislation. it's a way to do it and not be called on it. isn't it true that both of these senators are claiming to be for the bills, but because they oppose the only way the pass the bills, they're against these bills, senator.
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>> one, joe manchin's name is on this bill, joyce. so we have to be honest about this. but number two, joy, i'm in the middle of this every single day. >> yeah. >> and i'm not going to give up, and i'm not going to give up on all the people that are going to be hurt by this. it's bob dole that once said we're a first class democracy, and we shouldn't treat people like second class citizens, which is what's going on right now with what's happening in the states on voting. but right now we are making the case to them, and they -- especially senator manchin has signaled an openness to the standing filibuster. and there is a way with senator merkley's help that we can get to the point where we can come up with an immigrant on a rules change. the president, vice president firmly behind it to get to that moment. i don't really have a choice, joy, but to stay here and talk to them. there is no other option here. the republicans, as you point out, are not going to come over to the table and suddenly say kumbahyah, we want to help the
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people to allow people to vote. that's not helping because their path to victory saul paved in gold with this idea of picking their own voters and limiting the people who voted in the last election. we get that. they get that. the stakes couldn't be higher. . >> let me ask you if this is related. so the parliamentarian has ruled against the immigration plank that democrats want to include in build back better. this is going to affect, you know, hundreds of thousands of people if this can't be done. people who are really counting on democrats to make it happen. do you support the idea of -- another idea of overruling the parliamentarian, which has been done in the past and allowing vice president harris to do the overruling of the parliamentarian, which a vice president has done in the past and going ahead and passing these bills? and if that overrule happened, could that bill pass with 50 votes? >> yes, yes. i think that option must be on the table, and i hope we have a vote on that.
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the question is will everyone be on board? that's where we have to get to. but we cannot, we cannot move forward. our economy actually, when we have especially in my state incredibly low unemployment rates, which is a great thing. but we need people working. we have restaurants, places that literally are shutting down because we don't have enough workers. so that is the strong economic argument for these work permits that were included in the house bill that passed the house of representatives with build back better and that i strongly want to see. i would like to see a path to citizenship. i am an original sponsor of the bill that would provide for that. but right now this is the next best thing that would allow us to go forward. so yes, of course that's on the table. >> senator amy klobuchar in her blue for sticking around for the holidays. >> because i am not -- exactly. i'm not someone that's going home. >> i appreciate you always being willing to come on and parry with me on these issues because
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you know they're very important, and i know you care about them. so thank you very much, senator. >> i do. >> happy holidays. >> happy holidays to you. >> cheers. the absolute worst is still ahead. but first, the trial of kim potter for the deadly shooting of daunte wright during a traffic stop. potter is expected to take the stand tomorrow. we'll bring you the latest, next. next with downy infusions, let the scent set the mood. feel the difference with downy.
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ms. potter, do you -- do you still want to testify or have you changed your mind? >> yes, your honor. i'll testify. >> okay. and you don't need any more time to think about that? >> no, your honor. >> okay. >> the defense began its case today in the trial of kim potter, the former minnesota police officer who is charged in the shooting death of 20-year-old daunte wright. it's expected that potler take the stand tomorrow. she faces first and second-degree manslaughter charges following the traffic stop in april where she says that she mistook her gun for her
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taser when she shot wright in the chest. she could face up to 25 years in prison if found guilty on both charges. joining me is paul butler, a georgetown law professor. it's sort of impossible seeming as this claim is that she mistook her gun for her taser, anybody who has actually ever held a firearm and a taser, they're quite different. they're different colors and everything. what do you make so far of the case that the prosecutor has made and her decision to testify? >> so to convict ms. potter of manslaughter, prosecutors don't have to prove that she intended to kill daunte wright, but only that she was reckless or negligent. and joy, the prosecution has emphasized as you said how different a taser looks from a gun, to make the case that no reasonable police officer would make the mistake that potter claims that she made. tasers are brightly colored. they're twice as heavy as guns. the trigger mechanisms are very
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different. plus, potter always kept her gun in one pocket and her taser in another. so no case against a police officer is ever a slam-dunk for the prosecution, but based on the evidence, it's hard to see how officer potter could be found not guilty, even if she is not convict to have had most serious charges. on the other hand, joy, you never know what a jury is going to do. >> you never know. >> and there are particular concerns in a racially charged case like this when the jury is not diverse. this jury has only one black juror. >> you and have i done this a lot, trying to blame daunte wright for his own death, saying all he had to do, if he just complied. the same sort of story of trying to demonize the dead person, who can't defend themselves because they're dead. does that surprise you that is being attempted here again? >> not at all. but prosecutors are learning from other cases, and they're trying some of the same tactics that have gotten cops convicted. so when the victim is a black
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man, prosecutors have to try to get the jury to see his humanity. daunte wright's father testified yesterday. he talked about the kind of stories you would hear at a christmas dinner about how he was both his boss at work. poignant stories about how much daunte's father loved daunte. the defense typically depicts the victim as a thug who deserved whatever the cops did to him. it's a shame that in 2021, prosecutors still have to humanize black victims, but it was an effective strategy that helped convict derek chauvin of murdering george floyd. so prosecutors hope it will lead to a manslaughter conviction of kimberly potter. >> you mentioned derek chauvin. i want to pivot to the fact he did plead guilty to violating george floyd's civil rights. that strikes me as a big deal not just for him and he could
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get an extra six years on his sentence if he gets full 25 years for the federal charge and they serve concurrently on top of his 22 1/2 years, but there are three other police officers that have to go to trial. if you're their defense attorneys and you look at him actually losing a very unusual case -- police officers don't often get convicted of killing people, particularly killing black people. he went down. he's pleaded out on the federal charges. do you think this makes it more likely the other three will try to cop a plea? >> it makes it slightly more likely, but they have a very different defense and posture in both the state and federal trial in derek chauvin. they were mainly rookie officers. chauvin was their training instructor, so they're going to try to blame him. as we know, derek chauvin didn't plead guilty in the federal case out of the goodness of his heart. every plea bargain, there's something for both sides. so prosecutors got their federal conviction. they're going to ask the judge to throw the book at chauvin.
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but what was in it for chauvin? he probably will be allowed to serve his entire sentence in federal prison, and that would be an improvement over the state prison where he's now being held in solitary confinement. that's probably why he took this deal. plus, if chauvin had gone to trial and lost, he could have been sentenced to life in prison. so quite a different calculus for derek chauvin than for the three officers who also participated in the act which led to george floyd's tragic death. >> let's go back to the potter trial. there is this question of -- the trials that we've watched, there have been these attempts to sort of humanize the person who is the defendant. so we saw in the rittenhouse trial that he did his testimony, the tearful testimony. we saw in the case, in the georgia case, the man who killed ahmaud arbery, one of them tried to testify. that didn't go so well for him. do you think that testifying in general tends to help, particularly when the person is a police officer who an almost
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all white jury might sympathize with? >> that's a great question, joy. in other high-profile cases we've seen mixed results. derek chauvin did not take the stand, and he was convicted of murdering george floyd. but the chicago police officer who killed laquan mcdonald testified in his own defense, and he was convicted of murder. on the other hand, kyle rittenhouse, his performance on the stand is probably the reason that he was found not guilty. >> well, that and the judge being on his side. that's my own editorial opinion. paul butler, thank you very much. happy holidays. thank you for being here. tonight's absolute worst is up next. and it's pretty darn infuriating. but sadly not at all surprising. we'll be right back. battling se, we switched to tide hygienic clean free. it's gentle on her skin, and out cleans our old free detergent. tide hygienic clean free. hypoallergenic and safe for sensitive skin.
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>> speaker pelosi said it best back in march. when the stimulus bill passed, congress without a single republican vote. and then it did exactly what republicans are doing, taking the dough and even championing it even though they once denigrated a plan that delivered direct relief to americans and businesses during the pandemic. >> it's a giant handout from washington, d.c., and it's money that's being borrowed from the future, from our children, our grandchildren, and beyond. >> if you were in the senate, who you have voted for the president's package? >> no, probably not. i wish that it would have been a bipartisan bill. >> there's a lot of other nonsense in that bill which i'm not surprised at as someone who did serve in the congress. but there's no doubt states like florida who did it right are going to come up with the short end of the stick against other states that did it wrong. >> mm-hmm. okay, baby maga, that's real cute. but aren't you the one who -- let's see. oh, yes, yes. called the package washington at its worst and then announced
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that the covid relief money will go toward infrastructure, transportation, and workforce retention? ditto on ohio governor dewine, who said he would not have supported the democratic package, but, hey, since it's here, sure. let's replenish the state's jobless benefits fund and improve health care facilities for kids while we're at it. and don't forget to pat me on the back. then of course kristi noem, the grim reaper of sturgess. who is using the money handed to her state to invest in local water projects and build new day care centers. democratic backed stimulus so easy to bash, even easier to spend. now you tout projects that americans desperately need with funds that you condemned as handouts to improve your re-election prospects. hey, you got to do something as your constituents get infected and die from covid. am i right? while turning one of the most desperate grief-stricken years in modern american history into partisan blood sport. republican hypocrisy?
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yeah, it's the absolute worst. and that's tonight's reidout. "all in" with chris hayes starts now. tonight on "all in." >> i don't know if i spoke with him in the morning or not. i just don't know. i'd have to go back and -- i mean i don't -- i don't -- i don't know that -- when those conversations happened, but, um -- >> the calls were coming from inside the house. >> i think that congressman jordan may well be in a material witness. >> what jim jordan did on january 6th and how mark meadows was in the thick of it. >> i'm not aware of anybody in the west wing that had any advance knowledge that the security was going to be breached at the capitol. >> tonight the latest on the investigation into the insurrection and how roger stone plans to plead the fifth before the committee. then, the build back better bill in serious jeopardy in the senate, and bernie sanders is here on that. and historic storms and historic warmth in the middle of


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