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tv   Yasmin Vossoughian Reports  MSNBC  December 19, 2021 8:00pm-9:00pm PST

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was sharing their challenges i immediately opened up about mine. >> hopefully, it's the first of many conversations. . >> good evening, everybody. welcome to a special hour, msnbc reports, attack on the capitol. we are less than three weeks away from the one-year mark of that attack, a day i witnessed, i reported on, and indeed, many people will not soon forget. >> we don't know what that hch
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there are people watching all this happen, watching these protesters, and they're cheering them on, they're cheering on, say go, go, go, keep going. throwing a fire extinguisher on the capitol police, and you saw some sort of pepper spray. you can see obviously, it's pretty contentious right now. that day haunting so many of you say even today, tonight we explore the testimony regarding january 6 attack, who is being held cup accountable for their actions and who is not, what repercussions trump administration and allies face for dodging subpoenas and what steps are being taken from preventing these actions from ever being taken place again as
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three generals come forward in a piece published by washington post warning of, quote, lethal chaos inside our military with the next u.s. election. with that, let's get started. we've been tracking major developments this week in regard to the january 6 capitol, on monday, text messages sent to and from trump's former chief of staff mark meadows in the lead up and day of the attack. even trump's own son, don jr., they were begging meadows to do everything in his power to get trump to call off his mob. fox's laura ingraham writing to mark meadows this, the president needs to tell the people in the capitol to go home, he is sdroig us and his legacy. refusal of mark meadow to answer
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questions on the january 6 attack, much more though to come. news this week about trump's allies in congress speaking of the stop the steal movement in the lead-up to january 6, andy biggs, all named in the lawsuit and roger stone, another trump ally this week, but stone refused to answer their questions after invoking his fifth amendment rights of self-incrimination and saw this guy, robert palmer, sentenced to 63 months in prison for repeatedly assaulting police officers at the capitol. so much to talk about, to make sense of it all and these developments josh gorestein senior writer politico, and
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domestic rortder and msnbc contributor. josh, let me start with this one, we are almost one year in, how close are we to figuring out what happened in the lead-up to january 6 and how to prevent it, from happening, going forward? >> well, i think there's been considerable progress on the second half of that question yasmin, in terms of what can be done at tactical level for the capitol to prevent this happening again. in terms of what happened on january 6, i think there's been some progress, the text messages you mentioned earlier are certainly enlightening and suggest the house investigation is getting some traction in obtaining information about what happened, but there are still a lot of puzzles left here. in particular, surrounding president trump himself. we know about these texts that people were trying to urgently reach him through mark meadows,
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what we still don't know is what was president trump doing? i think there have been some sketchy reports that he was watching tv and seemed satisfied or happy with what was going on but yet to get really firsthand accounts of what was the president doing as the violence unfolded and as he seemed so reluctant to make a sort of statement to call off his folks. >> and josh, the clock is ticking. i mean the midterms are around the corner here in which republicans could take back control of congress, and at that point, this investigation could feasibly be over. >> right, the committee, i think, has been careful not to set out an explicit time line especially considering the stonewalling from some of the witnesses they're trying to talk to, but you're right, there's a sort of practical deadline that by the end of the spring if they haven't brought the investigation to a conclusion and aiming towards a public report, the whole thing sort of
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disappears into the midterm elections so i think it's just a practical matter, they got three, four, five months here into the new year to get at least the congressional part of this investigation wrapped up. criminal investigations are another matter. >> we'll get into that as well, luke, let's talk about the text messages josh mentioned, of course the former chief of staff mark meadows reading some of those. we're under siege, armed stand off at the house chamber door, we're all helpless, mark, stop this now. is anybody in your loop at congress now pointing the finger at mark meadows that wasn't doing it before? >> that's a good question, and thanks for having me. as you were outside that day, i was inside. so i know the way a lot of these people felt, this panicked feeling of how this attack needs to stop, won't somebody do something. i don't -- it does not seem to
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me, though, that these text messages have turned any members of congress against mark meadows who were not previously. as you saw when the vote came up to hold him in contempt, the only two republicans who voted for it were liz cheney and adam kinsinger who were the two members of the committee recommending the contempt charge so unlike steve bannon who had nine republicans voted him in contempt, seven of those votes disappeared, in the white house at the time so stronger claim of executive privilege, he has a lot of friends on capitol hill, has the head of the freedom caucus for several years, meadows has a lot of presence bannon didn't have on the hill so when i see from the texts, i
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don't think he had a single republican abandoned him who wasn't already with him. >> do you see any plan to do the same for mark meadows here, as seen with bannon. >> department of justice and washington prosecutors make that decision, then it goes up to attorney general garland and he looks a the it, and has always backed career prosecutors since take office so i can't imagine he turns his back that time, then goes to grand jury whether there's an indictment but keep in mind, this is not a fast process. we saw what happened multiple weeks with bannon considered very quick, meadows may take longer because he has a slightly greater claim to privilege so this isn't an overnight procedure so i think people looking to the house investigation and the justice department's work to hold donald
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trump or any of his supporters accountable, you have to look at it in two multiple ways. there's how will history judge this matter and that is very much a matter for the house and very much a matter for the u.s. attorney's office and for the justice department and then there's the practical matter of the ground game over the next couple of years, who will be in power in congress in the white house that has almost nothing to do with congress or the justice department because those processes cannot move quickly enough to have any impact on the midterms or even the general election. that is, again, a different congressional issue. laws around voting and things like, you know, the two voting bills that are not going to be passed it looks like. >> katie, talk to me about the thinking inside the department of justice as to why not investigate the former president and his links to, in the lead-up to january 6th? >> sure, i think that people inside of the justice department would say investigating the former president has never been taken off the table. right? after the january 6 attack, we saw the u.s. attorney come out
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and publicly say all options are on the table. they would never rule anybody out. you followed the facts and followed the law, but the keep in mind, in order for a criminal investigation on the president, would be both a matter of reaching a very, very high bar with evidence and then also understanding that if something like that were to go to trial, it would have to first get past the district court level, then the appeals court level so this would have to be the very strongest case possible. this is not going to be a decision made flippantly, i understand if you look on social media, twitter, public comments, everyone says this is so easy but has to be something that if under taken could make it through the court system because if not, a loss would be pretty disastrous. >> hey luke, talk to me about this reporting you and katie have out on the j6 committee looking to hire folks to analyze social media practices in the lead-up to j6 and also foreign adversaries and their
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involvement? >> right, so the january 6 committee has been beefing up its staff pretty consistently over the past several weeks. they're up to about 40 investigators and staffers right now and looking to add probably about five more to delve even deeper into undiscovered things that are online already, into some of these hard-to-find chatrooms and social media sites that, and connecting who anonymous people are to real identities, so this is some pretty advanced work that takes a certain amount of technical expertise and technical prowess to do, so they're looking to bring on more staff to beef that up. the other thing that we reported was that there's a question about when stop the steal happened and it divided our country so badly, did that open up divisions for foreign governments to exploit and take
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advantage of us even deeper? we know there were incidents with iranian nationals who were actually charged over this during the, in the run-up to the election but does it go even deeper? are there more ties to how this division was potentially exploited by foreign governments? so that's another area of avenue that the 1/6 committee is looking into. >> i can't help but wonder though what their objective is here and what they can actually do to stop it considering all the testimony that we've seen in the past, and the fact that they've not been able to regulate social media before this. josh garcia, luke broadwater, katie benner thank you for all your incredible reporting on this. coming up next congressman juaqim castro helped indict trump on his part in the capitol, but first, richard
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louie with the headlines. west virginia senator joe manchin now says he cannot support the senate spending bill, after much negotiation with democrats on the hill. saying his actions were at odds with the president, the white house staff and his own public utterances, end quote. death toll from super typhoon rai continues to rise, the typhoon earlier this year, killed at least 130 people. and senators elizabeth warren and cody booker tested positive for covid-19, though say their cases are mild. reports on the attack on the capitol, more after the break. re capitol, more after the break. wrinkles send the wrong message. help prevent them with downy wrinkleguard. feel the difference with downy.
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this is the story of how a woman from my hometown was radicalized. >> american radical, a new msnbc podcast, listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. welcome back to this msnbc
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special report. in addition to america's questions about what happened on january 6, there are also wider questions of strategy on part of the january 6 committee and the democrats leading it, specifically are they doing enough to combat another attack before republicans possibly take house next week. democratic congressman juaqim of texas, giving us a little cheer with the christmas tree in the background. we appreciate it, everyone needs a little holiday cheer in our lives with everything going on with covid. let's talk first here about accountability. you were a former impeachment manager for the foreign president the second time around. he was held accountable in the house, obviously not senate, you, not getting john bolson to
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testify in that trial, is this system just not equipped to hold people accountable? >> i actually don't think that it is. i think there's got to be a quicker way to adjudicate these issues whether it's subpoenas or other issues when you got impeachment trial going on, impeachment inquiry or something like the january 6 commission and so that's something that congress should work on is getting the courts to adjudicate subpoenas and other legal issues on a faster track when something like this is at stake, and really, you know, the commission has three general goals. and i think that benny thompson the chairman is actually carrying them out pretty well. the first one is transparency to get the whole story out to the american people on what happened. the second one is holding people accountable, including making referrals to the department of justice for criminal prosecution, and then the final piece is doing everything you can to make sure that this doesn't happen again.
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>> so holding people accountable. how are they being held accountable, and in what respect do you expect this was actually going to change people's minds? this is an incredibly divided country. if they're able to even wrap this thing up before november. how is it going to change peoples' minds? >> well let me answer your first question about accountability. the chairman has been very aggressive and has offered people a chance to cooperate and when they haven't, like with steve bannon and mark meadows, they've been referred to department of justice for prosecution. i think that's exactly the tactics you got to take with this group of people who believe they're above the law, that they don't have to answer to congress or the american people. so you got to basically put your foot down, which is what he he's done, and get tough with them. and he's also got the opportunity, the commission's got the opportunity, the committee, to make criminal referrals once the investigation is complete. so there will be an opportunity to hold people who helped plan
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this thing and everything that happened on january 6, to hold them accountable. now in terms of changing peoples minds, look, you're right, donald trump and other republicans have gone out there a few years now and basically told a big lie about election fraud and stirred up anger and fear and resentment in a lot of americans. and you saw a fraction of those people show up on january 6 and become violent. and so it's incumbent upon all of us, including the media and everybody else, to continue the tell the truth. and also, for congress to pass laws like hr1 and hr-4 that will combat the election, basically interference and everything else that republicans are trying to accomplish in the state legislatures and by following what has become a cultist figure in donald trump. >> you talk about accountability, now i want to drill down on this because i think it's a really important discussion to be had, right, we've heard of these text messages coming from the likes
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of for instance, jim jordan, and the planning of january six to a certain extent. text messages sent to mark meadows from jim jordan. this is an individual that could feasibly be a committee chair in a year's time, if, in fact, republicans take the house. what do you make of that? how is that accountability? >> well you're right. and that's why it's important the committee get its work done this year and make any criminal referrals it needs to to the department of justice and that includes any members of congress that had an active role in helping to plan or prepare for the attacks of january 6th. i don't think that there should be any kind of congressional courtesy or custom that's followed that would let members of congress off the hook just because they're members of congress, if they actively helped to plan this attack or helped the people who were planning the attack, and also, if they were helping donald trump try to steal an election
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by preventing congress from doing its duty and accepting the results of the 2020 presidential election. >> congressman, are you confident the department of justice will follow through with criminal referrals? >> i believe they will. i believe they'll take action. i believe the department of justice has to understand what's at stake for the country. again, the washington post today, i believe, there were three retired generals who told the military that they should be prepared in case there's an attempted coup or insurrection in 2024. and i think that's right. listen, if we don't act swiftly and aggressively now, then elections in november of 2022 and certainly the presidential election in 2024 may not look at all like what we've known elections to be in the past. >> how worried are you about that? about that real possibility, the loss of democracy in this country, if we're not following through? >> i'm extremely concerned, you
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know, as somebody who sat on the intelligence committee, has sat on the intelligence committee since mid 2016, went through both rounds of impeachment, the intelligence committee had a role in those, and then i was at the capitol although i was in my office in rayburn on january 6 and just watching everything happen since then where the price of the admission to republican party now is to buy into the big lie and follow donald trump like a cult figure. you cannot win a republican primary for congress now, just about, unless you buy into the idea that when a democrat wins a major political race, it's based on fraud. for them, they have now defined democrats winning elections as fraud. and that is incredibly dangerous for a democracy. >> congressman juaqim castro happy holidays to you and thank you for the holiday cheer again.
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the man who received the longest sentence yet for the attack on january 6, what's at stake for trump allies and could the president ever face legal charges? we'll ask our legal panel, next. >> we're televising the breach. >> the capitol is a free place to go, you can go through the capitol, but you got to go through metal detectors and security, and when you breach that you haven't gone through security and you got to imagine that that is making a lot of the capitol police and other folks inside the capitol right now very, very uncomfortable, and very nervous. droplets... ...swipe on in seconds. better. faster. 100% whiter teeth. shop crestwhitesmile.com. ♪♪ this flag isn't backwards. it's facing this way because it's moving forward. ♪♪ just like the men and women who wear it on their uniforms
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and ask your doctor if biktarvy is right for you. in just a few weeks time it will be one year since the january 6 insurrection, about 140 law enforcement officers injured on that day and officer bryan citnik died as a result of the attack, four more officers
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later go on to take their own lives. while the january 6 committee continues their investigation and courts hand sentences to individual members of trump's mob, there are growing fears that the people at the top, the people who fed the rioters steady lies, and whipped into a frenzy may escape accountability. as the quote, an unpunished clause is -- former attorney general in washington, counter intelligence for the fbi and msnbc security analyst, and chuck rosenburg, senior attorney, fbi official. let me read you a part of the president's statement, all the democrats want to do is put
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people in jail. they are vicious, violent and radical left thugs, they don't think they'll be held accountable for rigging the 2020 presidential election, the january 6 committee is a cover-up for what happened on november third and our country won't stand for it. >> your phrase was tick tock, expand on that what you mean? >> i don't think the president hides his emotions very well at all and historically for him, when he sends out something like this it's indicative he learned something we don't know. do i have special behind-the-scenes information like that, but with the das, district attorneys, something's stirring, something is, word has gotten to him that something's happening, about to happen, he doesn't like that investigations are going. he's lashing out, expect to see more of this when they get closer and closer to the possibility that only the state
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of new york or the manhattan district attorney's office and/or the doj is getting closer to him. some words got back to him that triggered that message. >> so you think this may be a result possibly of the text messages revealed this week, especially from liz cheney? >> oh i think specifically, it's my belief that doj and the select committee are not working in a vacuum, for those all over social media who are understandably frustrated with timing and wondering if doj and garland are doing absolutely nothing, i'm an evidence guy and i've seen glimpses in the evidence we've seen that not only is doj not doing nothing but rather, they understand the role of the select committee, we've seen doj and the white house waive executive privilege, we've seen people cooperating at a fairly high level. we've seen even this week a guy by the name of streka arrested defend in the january 6 case, the d.o.j. put the breaks on
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proceedings because he's been arrested, and he is cooperating, enough for doj to stop what they're doing on streka we know a high ranking oath keeper asked this question by fbi agents, were you in contact with staff members, we heard a reporter tell thompson, who offered the texts released by the committee? he said house members and staffers, the same language the fbi is using when they question oath keepers. i think things are happening, i think merick garland understands domestic terrorism, helped prosecute the oklahoma city bombing, i think he knows what he's doing. >> chuck, let's talk about account nlt with the former president, there was an article talking about the president's capability and how he's been able to avoid authorities or culpability also his call with secretary of state rathesberger,
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i want to play a portion of that phone call just to remind folks of it. >> so look, all i want to do is this, i just want to find 11,780 votes which is one more than we have because we won the state and flipping the state is a great testament to our country. >> chuck, i think the question here is was that breaking the law by calling the georgia secretary of state and asking him to find votes and if so, why has he not been charged. >> i like frank and i'm sure i like barb, i'm also an evidence guy, that film calls evidence of a crime but not conclusive evidence of a crime. it could be that the president was so diluted that he actually thinks he won georgia. if he actually thinks he won georgia, then asking the secretary of state in georgia to
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find the votes that he thinks belongs to him would not be evidence of a crime, it would be evidence of delusion, that's precisely why you do investigations, in order to establish the hardest thing in these criminal cases, intent. what did the president know to use and borrow an old phrase and when did he know it? so the reason these investigations take time is that there's an easy part and a hard part. the easy part is having the phonecall. the hard part is proving, demonstrating what it is the president actually knew, what he actually intended. could you have a crime in georgia? absolutely. do you have a conclusive crime? do you have conclusive proof with that phone call? no, not yet. >> barbara, let's talk about a possible investigation at the doj into the former president, i touched on this a little bit with times reporter katie benner a little bit, justice department reporter for new york times, and
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talking about the thinking behind the scenes there. what do you make of this? do you believe justice department should be launching investigation into the former president and is there possibility it's already going on and we don't know about it. >> i think there's definitely for prosecuting president trump, we heard michael sherwin active attorney in the district of columbia back on the aftermath of january 6 saying they would investigate everybody who had anything to do with this to the highest levels to include sedition and insurrection and other crimes so it could be the 600 cases we're seeing are just the lower level cases that will build to the higher level, so it's possible that it's already occurring through that avenue. grand jury investigations are, by definition, secret, so it could very well be that there are other investigations occurring that we don't know about. there's a third possibility, and that is that the justice
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department is allowing congress to do some of the heavy lifting here, bringing in some of these witnesses and getting these privileges and other issues worked out so that if and when this committee has to disband at the time of the mid-terms, all of that is still evidence that the justice department could to use to bring its own charges, so i think there are multiple ways there could be investigation swirling all around right now. >> so if in fact the committee has to disband at the midterms, that doesn't mean that necessarily, their work stops. the justice department at that point can pick it up and run with it if in fact they feel it's warranted. >> absolutely and it could be they're already doing that or working in parallel as frank suggested, but at the very least, if disbanded, they could share the transcripts and everything they put together in the case with the justice department to pick up and the ball and carry it. >> frank, what about the people that surrounded the former
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president, the people that enabled the election lie that we're learning about every single day, whether it be jim jordan, congressman perry in pennsylvania, gomer, meadows obviously, as wel what about investigations launched into them? could there be subsequent investigations launched by the justice department or the fbi as barbara was just speaking to that we don't necessarily know about to a hold these people accountable? >> not only do i think it's possible, i think it may be happening, and again, i refer back to the little clues we're getting. the fact that an fbi agent asked a senior oathkeeper if he's been in contact with staffers during the january 6 breach, that's not, you know, fbi don't just come up with questions off the top of their head in a nationwide complex investigations. the questions are drafted by intelligence analyst, there are collection requirements, i think
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they are looking at congress members and staff and i think that is already happening. >> there is a sense at all that justice department doesn't want to get involved because they see it too political at this moment? >> i think there's a miktd for the justice department to go too easy or too hard based on the fact that someone held office. you have to play it down the middle, so my hope is they do a thoughtful, thorough, investigation, they follow the facts, they apply the law. you know, it is a hard call as to whether or not you charge someone like donald trump. because you also have to have a reasonable probability of conviction. meaning, not just enough to charge, but enough to convict. and as we were speaking about earlier, yasmin, when part of the conviction is predicated on proving intent, that's hard. so i don't mind that the justice
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department is being careful. like barb and like frank, i sure hope they're doing an investigation. >> i always love talking to you guys, i always learn so much as our audience does as well, so chuck, barbara, frank i'll ask you to stick around because we have so much coming in the special, including january 6 texts that have a very different story from their on-air comments. >> member of the senate telling nbc news the vice-president and senator have been taking to a secure location, doors of the senate locks, senators told to stay away from the doors. , senao stay away from the doors it's gentle on her skin, and out cleans our old free detergent. tide hygienic clean free. hypoallergenic and safe for sensitive skin. (burke) with farmers auto multi-policy discount, the more policies you have with us, the more you could save on your auto insurance. (man) hey, hon! (wife) hi, honey! (man) like what? (burke) well, you'd get a discount for insuring your jet skis... and boat...rv...life... ...home and more.
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(kate) this holiday, verizon has the deal that gets better and better and better. ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy. get iphone 13 pro, on us, when you trade in your old or damaged phone. better? (guy) better. (kate) hey. and up to $1,000 when you switch. (carolers) [singing] betttttter. because everyone deserves better. clerk: hello, how can i? sore throat pain? ♪honey lemon♪ try vicks vapocool drops. in honey lemon chill. for fast-acting sore throat relief. wooo vaporize sore throat pain with vicks vapocool drops. welcome back to this msnbc special report, on the january 6 investigation, the trove of text messages informed by white house chief of staff mark meadows and trump supporters. we now know as the capitol was under siege, mark meadows
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received desperate text messages and calls from former members in the house and curiously, a lot of fox news personalities, anchors including sean hannity personally reached out to meadows to have him have trump call off the attack. this is hurting all of us, ingraham said. echoing that, please get him off tv, destroying aefrg, everything we have accomplished. hannity, similar state. it's shocking to see this coming from fox news host, seems courageous or would be if the same hosts didn't immediately turn around and spend the entire year downplaying the events of january 6. behind you consider the sentiments they expressed to mark meadows next to the talking points on the fox air ways just
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days after the attack, the contrast, it's jarring. >> 99% or so of the patriots were peaceful but because a small amount of loons these patriots unfairly maligned. >> i have not known more citizens acting in a situation. >> tax payers, citizens, responsible american patriots that are worried about election integrity. >> it is rare to have such tangible proof of fox's host lying to their audiences to compare to what the network's biggest stars are broadcasting to the public. kilmeade, hannity, ingraham all spreading conspiracy theories. the video, trivializing the violence that day, mocking
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figures like adam kinsinger after they opened up how just afraid they were during that attack and those actions are completely antithetical to what we know now. they recognize the horror from january 6, but it was in their political interest to lie about it. up next, we find out what's in the investigation. stick around. >> the whole world is watching this. the whole world is now able to see what has happened to the u.s. capitol. by our reckoning, both houses, house and senate, have been breached. members of the house and senate have been told to shelter and, yes, we have seen guns drawn. ib♪ only pay for what yoed. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪
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superpowers from a spider bite? i could use some help showing the world how liberty mutual customizes their car insurance. ow! i'm ok! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ only in theaters december 17th. all right so we have spent the last hour covering every angle of where things stand nearly one year after the january 6 attack, but the coming weeks promise to reveal more and the legal panel is back with their expectations and warnings, barbara, frank, chuck rosenburg, i'll just go around the room here and barbara i'll start with you. what are your expectations for the january 6 committee going forward? >> i think at some point, the executive privilege will fall and they will get those documents which will be very
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important. with regard to fifth amendment privileges of self incriminal , incrimination have to make a decision with immunity. >> this week, we heard liz cheney twice, refer verbatim to federal statutory language of a crime, with regard to what she's looking at in terms of meadows and others. i think they'll make a criminal referral to doj and i think they'll do it before they get disbanded. >> and chuck, to you? >> yeah, two thoughts. first, i think they've already done an extraordinary job. they've spoken to more than 300 witnesses. they have reviewed 10s of thousands of documents, they'll tell a robust story. in an investigation, you never get everything you want, some witnesses lie, some are invaluable, so this is something we as prosecutors contend with all the time. there are people who won't speak
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with the committee or justice department, that doesn't mean the work of the committee is flawed or unemployment. >> chuck, you and i had a couple hallway conversations around the make-up room here, when we ran into each other in the morning when i used to do a morning show and often relied on you to give me things straight-up and truthfully as you always do. how worried are you on the state of democracy in this country and the election in 2024 and the confidence that people have in this election on both sides of the aisle? >> yeah, it's a really hard question, yasmin. i'm a rule of law person, and so my bias is that other people see things and the way i do, and will behave the way i try to behave. i'm optimistic, but what we saw on january 6 was horrifying, and i know there's a prospect that something like that or even worse will happen again. i may be completely wrong, but i remain an optimist. >> frank, are we ready, when it comes to law enforcement, are we
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ready when it comes to intelligence? because we certainly were not on january 6. the intelligence, whether or not it was there, whether or not it was heard, we were not prepared. are we going to be prepared the next time this thing is coming? >> so january 6 was a wake-up call, that's the good news, and people are snapped in and they understand more that we present a threat to ourselves. the not-so-good news, yasmin, i don't see the things in place yet, the changes to the fbi operating guidelines, a mindset to take this on differently. i'm very concerned about national law enforcement agencies, large police departments with regard to domestic extremists, not forget 1/10 of the people arrested on january 6 have some military tie, still not a domestic terrorism law, short answer, we're not there yet and better get there fast.
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>> here's a quick answer though, frank, if you look at the op-ed post of the three generals you say we got to get prepares, legislatures take this seriously, folks we elected to washington take this seriously, however, what they failed to mention is, in many respects, we are depending on people that refuse to acknowledge the former president pushed an election lie that led to january 6 so in fact, we are depending on those people to keep us safe? when another insurrection comes our way? that could be worse than what we saw on january 6. how does that add up? >> oh it doesn't add up. that's why i'm concerned about the future and the speed with which we're going to put initiatives in place to change this. you know, the white house several months ago released, quote, a new strategy against violent domestic extremism in america with great fanfare, i read it three times, it's fast, it can't happen fast enough,
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educating the public, using educators, clergy, regulating social media. fantastic document, is that going to happen in time? it's not, we can't even agree if we're teaching certain curriculum in schools or get a vaccine or wear a mask. it's just going to be all hands on deck to get this to work. >> barbara, final word to you, as we look at january 6 and the people that stormed the capitol, it was not just proud boys or extremists, it was doctors, fire men, members of military, people we interact with on a daily basis and respect and request serves for ourselves and they were taken out by conspiracy theories by people they trust, the former president, elected officials. will there be real accountability? >> well, i think that is one very important step that has to happen that i think could dampen
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some of the enthusiasm for the conspiracy theorists and those who are pushing misinformation if there is accountability. and that's why i think that this committee is working hard and with such urgency, and i hope, ultimately, the justice department gets involved to bring criminal charges and hold them accountable that way. >> chuck rosenburg, barbara, frank, thank you so much for being here with me this evening, and thank you at home for making time for us. stay ahead as next, we follow five women as they reflect on the physical and psychological pain of infertility, encouraging community, and stories they tell, with the infertility secret. next, on msnbc. have a great night. next, on msnbc have a great night try spring daydream, now part of our irresistible scent collection.
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