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tv   Morning Joe  MSNBC  December 20, 2021 3:00am-6:00am PST

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better act. >> adrienne elrod. we appreciate you being here today. it's going to be a busy day. we'll be talking about it on "morning joe" starts right now. >> for the interest of safety, we do not have an audience and we sent home most of our crew but i came here from california and if you think i am going to fly 3,000 miles and not be on tv, you have another thing coming. i am not alone. is it right, tina? >> bravo. >> yes, i am here and this is not the smallest audience i have ever performed for. i have done improv in a macy's. >> thank you for coming. i am extremely disappointed. >> yeah, i know, buddy.
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>> it's not all that bad. "people" magazine just named you the most sexist man of the year. >> oh, i think it's the sexiest. >> christmas show on saturday night due to the spread of the omicron variant. without a live audience featuring taped sketches and past favorites. tom hanks and tina fey kicked off the evening and introducing paul rudd. his fifth times hosting "snl." it was pretty good, i enjoyed it a lot. tom hanks is hilarious, i came here all the way from california and not going to stop this. tina fey says hey, you know what else you started? >> what? >> covid. >> it was actually talking about
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doing the best they could with difficult circumstances. they certainly did that. >> absolutely. >> you had quite a weekend, yourself, did you? >> i had quite a weekend, yes. i was visiting my brother working with him, getting ready for christmas and you got a phone call saturday morning. >> i did from you, telling me the man in the house where i was had just become an ambassador. at 4:00 a.m. on saturday morning my brother mark -- >> that's not mark. >> that's rom. he too became an ambassador. >> congratulations to rom. >> rom is going to japan. that's going to be interesting to watch. >> your brother mark, made a full circle, he went to poland after the iron curtain fell. he actually did studies on
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constitutional law in poland and the development of constitutional law in poland. we are looking at pictures here with the ambassador in sweden. it really comes full circle and once for your brother who was there for 1991 and 30 years later he's going back at a extraordinary critical time in poland and this country and especially the relationship for russia and also for your family. what an extraordinary for your family. >> it's a generational moment to have my father and family flee poland during the rise of hitler. i put on instagram of pictures and my dad when they arrived at the island. it's incredible. they left under difficult circumstances. warsaw was demolished and their
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home was destroyed. my dad and mom spent their entire lives working to not only promote democracy around the world but to celebrate living in a democracy. >> yeah. >> and, my father always wished the best for his homeland. there was a time after he served as national security adviser here in the united states that he should go back and run for president. there is a lot of talks of him coming to poland, now looks like -- we have a lot to figure out. it's overwhelming. it's a beautiful moment. >> your father, david ignatous is with us. >> he was vetoed by mrs.
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brzezinski. >> you are a dear friend of dr. brzezinski, i know you certainly have a lot of thoughts on dr. brzezinski who left poland during ing rise of hitler to come to this country and spent his entire life to fight against totalirism. >> as mika says there is an arc of this story that's so powerful. the process of a brilliant young man coming from canada to america sering our country so
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powerfully. his son returning to poland to represent the united states and bringing his own with some clarity, was a difficult policy that we have now. i think of the brzezinski family, mika and mark and mom and, just with all the pride that a family friend would feel. it's a wonderful day. >> also with us this morning the host of "way too early," jonathan lemire. eddie glaude jr. and garrett haake joins us this morning. boy, do we have a lot to talk about. >> we have a lot to talk about with garrett and the entire team. >> after months of negotiations, senator manchin lynch pinned in the 50/50 senate saying he would not support the build back
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better bill, killing the $2 trillion proposal in its current form. the west virginia democrat decided debt, inflation and covid as reasons why he is opposed. >> i have always said this. if i can't go home and explain it to the people of west virginia, i can't vote for it. i can't vote to continue with this piece of legislation. i just cannot. i have tried everything humanly possible. i can't get there. >> you are done. this is a no. >> this is a no on this legislation. i have tried everything i know to do. >> the president put out a statement saying you still supported 1.2 trillion, you needed time. the president put out that statement, is his statement and not mine. you are a no. >> well, here is the thing, i have tried. i really did.
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the president was trying as hard as he could. he awfully a lot of arms in the fire right now. more on his plate that he needs this to continue when i am having the difficulty i am having and the challenges we have from different parts of our party, pushing in different ways. everyone has the aspirational thing they want to do. can we make it fit? we'll cut it down to two years verses ten years. we'll cut it down to four years verses ten years. that's not being genuine as far as i am concerned. >> a source tells nbc news that senator manchin did not talk to anyone at the white house or democratic leadership before the fox news interview. instead, a staff communicated manchin's plan 30 minutes ahead of time. another source says biden's official tried to get in touch with the senator before the interview but manchin did not take the call.
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jen psaki laughed at the democrats, writing senator manchin's comments this morning on fox are at odds with his discussions. weeks ago senator manchin committed to the president at his home in wilmington to support the build back better bill framework that the president then subsequently announced. senator manchin pledged repeatedly to negotiate on finalizing that framework in good faith. on tuesday of this week, senator manchin came to the white house and submitted to the president in person directly a written outline for a build back better bill that was the same size and scope as the president's framework and covered many of the same priorities. while that framework was missing key priorities, we believed it could lead to a compromise acceptable to all.
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manchin promised to continue conversations in the days ahead and to work with us to reach that common ground. if his comments on fox and written statement indicate an end to that effort, they represent a sudden and in explicable reversal in his position and a breach of his commitment to the president and the senators, colleagues in the house and senate. a source tells nbc news the president authorized jen psaki's detailed tiktok of his recent conversation with senator manchin. >> i want to get the details from garrett and i want to get the details obviously from jonathan that the white house, david ignatous, i want to start with you in your time of washington. did you find that statement extraordinary especially when that is the president who's in a
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50/50 world when it comes to passing anything, anything through the united states senate. >> i thought jen psaki's statement was unusually sharp and direct. the white house feels a sense of betrayal and a sense of being blindsided. he said last night manchin has been a dance all year. we get him, we lose him. we get him and we lose him. in the strong thrust of his comments was the process of negotiations is going to continue. manchin is not going to be a caucus of one in the democratic party. i don't know what that means in details but the strong sense of this comment after jen psakis was some kind of dialogue discussions. certainly the sense of personal,
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manchin promised us, he goes on fox and he breaks but we thought was the deal. you can just hear the anger in those comments. as i have said, i am sure something was a little later in the day and a little more. >> jonathan lemire, take us inside the white house and their decision to put out that statement. obviously they're going to need joe manchin for anything that's passed over the next year. and of course i am sure they were angry, i am shire they felt betrayed and exacerbated with trying to nail him down. at the same time, yesterday you can impeach bill clinton on monday and he invites you on golf and you would be on the bill on thursday.
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bill clinton always understood there is the next battle and victory to be had. i was quite taken again not because of manchin's feelings but just because of the reality of washington, d.c. i was taken by those attacks and attacks by other democrats which we'll read in a second which seems to invite manchin to become a republican. democrats think it can't get worse. oh. it can always get worse. jim jeffers left the republican party in 2002, gave democrats the criminal of the senate because of his problem of george w. bush. help me understand what led to that and after that. was there an understanding of the white house that they needed to cool down and figure out a way to talk with manchin. manchin is never over. he can say it's over but there is always another deal to be
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had. they can chop up this plan and pass the plan piece by piece. there is always another deal with this guy. >> yeah, this was really un-chararistic of this white house. it mentions that manchin gave his words to biden. there is a sense of betrayal here. as to david's point there is been a dance. one of the moments they thought they had him earlier this week when manchin came to the white
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house and talked to biden and shook the president's hand. here is a deal i can live with. it's about the same total cost of $1.8 trillion to be clear. there is some components needed to change. but, it was not a full rewrite. the president as we reported left that meeting telling aides look we got work to do. we can get it done at some point. we feel like there is a deal at hand. to go from there from tuesday and to sunday having manchin to be a flat no and not only a flat no but a flat no on fox. that's why biden was so angry. >> can i stop you there for a second? >> that's a tale. the fact that he went on fact is as tale. i read it in other reports too. i will get back to you.
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garrett, let me talk to you about this. manchin told "the washington post" and others that he was very angry being seen on thursday, hey, we are talking to joe manchin and this is going to be done soon when manchin has been saying. i said it last week for months you got to write the language and you got to get past ceo and past all of these budgeting tricks. manchin has been hiding in plain site and "the washington post" reported was he was incredibly angry that he was -- manchin again nobody is feeling sorry for manchin i am sure. manchin has had 24 hours of security around him. death threats to him and his family. an enraged progressive base focusing on him, he was particularly angry according to
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the post about what happened on thursday where biden was yeah, we'll talk to joe manchin and we'll get it done very soon. when manchin's message in public for months has been this is going to take a long time. we are dealing with a tax code and dealing with the environmental and regulation . we got to do things -- he felt the white house is putting their thumb on him and pressuring him to move quickly. >> joe, if joe manchin didn't like having people feeling mad about him this week, wait until he comes back to washington. the beyer rest of democratic party is furious with him. the plan from chuck schumer on down had been treating with
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manchin with gloves. they thought he was going to come along and may not have go through him with the infrastructure bill. joe manchin's feeling of not wanting to be targeted by all this. joe manchin made him the primary senator negotiated this bill than any other lawmakers in washington. we saw that progressive rage coming out including members o f the squad in the house, we told you all along this is going to happen. now what we are looking at in january is a chuck schumer who held back so far, announcing this morning, he's going to call manchin bluff. when the bill is ready, they'll put it on the floor and make every senator being on the record not just on television he adds with a little bit of shade there but on the senate floor, they'll vote on this bill and move right away. all things they would need joe
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manchin votes for which is underscore the incredible box senate democrats are in right now if they don't want to try to continue to work through scarecrow manchin. >> many democrats wasted no time reacting to manchin's announcement and here is senator bernie sanders'. >> i think he's going to have a lot of explaining to do to the people of west virginia to tell them why he didn't have the guts to take on the drug companies and lower the cost of prescription drugs and expanding healthcare, west virginia is one of the poorest states in this country. i hope we'll bring a strong bill to the floor of the senate and let manchin explain to the people of west virginia why he does not have the guts to stand up to powerful interest. >> you want to vote on it no matter what. >> absolutely. >> the american people have got to understand what's at stake. >> the chair of the progressive
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caucus jayapal wrote, senator manchin has betrayed his commitment not only to the president and democrats but most importantly to the american people. west virginia and the country see who clearly who he is. senator smith, we have to face reality that manchin's reckless posture imperils the build back better bill agenda. i am not walking away. senator murray, joe manchin may have woken up today and decided his job changed but i know what mine is, fighting for families. from ilhan omar. manchin's excuse is bs. this is what we warn what happened if we separated build back better bill from infrastructure.
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and from congresswoman presley of massachusetts, he's continued to move the goal post, he never negotiated in good faith and he's obstructing the president's agenda. from congresswoman ocasio-cortez, people can be mad at him all day long but we knew he would do this months ago. she would be our guest this morning. >> eddie glaude. you have senate pers from washington state, vermont, brooklyn, attacking joe manchin. and many talking about how he's going to have to explain this to the people of west virginia. the people of west virginia elected donald trump by 39%. and hold joe manchin in high
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regard. just as people in arizona holding kirsten sinema in high regards and certain members of the media. those are not political reality. the question is do democrats want joe manchin to just switch to the republican party that would certainly make his life a lot easier. >> well, there are a host of questions we have to face this morning. it's interesting. senator chris kuehn has sharp words with regards to senator manchin. the white house not only needs manchin but they need the progressive caucus. we talked on this show the progressive caucus were doing everything right. they engaged in the process. remember where we started and how they continue to move down.
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60% of the plan was cut. here we are in this moment after had and i can put it this way, after they concede and pass the infrastructure bill based on a set of promises it seems. and you get this is statement, this is what's clear. not only about the particulars but the statements from senator manchin that my democratic colleagues are trying to reshape our society in a way that leads this is country more vulnerable. there is a fundamental difference here. what is he talking about in terms of expanding medicare and child tax credit and climate change. what is he talking about? i think you are right in terms of the politics of west virginia, joe. the state of the country, my goodness, this seems to me not only bad faith but a betrayal. >> and, david ignatius, progressives have been
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extraordinary patience through the entire process. they have paid great deal of attention to what the senator from west virginia and arizona were thinking and trying to figure out how to shape legislation and the only way that the bipartisan bill got through on infrastructure, through the house was a guarantee from president biden that he trusted joe manchin and joe manchin trusted him and if they were to just pass the bipartisan infrastructure bill through the house, he would take care of manchin. this puts president biden in quite a difficult position this morning with the progressives and his own party, does it? >> it does. >> i think we got to the heart of the matter. joe biden got elect as president as the person who knew how to govern and make deals with former colleagues and congress
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and get legislation passed and move us from dead center make significant changes that we need for the country. particularly on this case biden did offer him assurance to the progressives in the house. if you let the bipartisan infrastructure bill go and let it go for a vote. i promise you i am going to deliver on the build back better bill part of the agenda that you care so deeply about and the anger you saw from the white house is the president seemed to look like he's not delivering. this is a long process. sometimes it's appalling to watch. the word i was getting from senior levels at the white house is this dance has gone on all year and continue a while longer. we do not think manchin is going to be a caucus of one.
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he's not going to be all alone. this negotiation has agonizing as it's been is going to continue. the anger makes the president look like he can't deliver. >> garrett, there is also voting rights. that's been sort of pushed up higher on the list. where does that stand? >> the same nowhere that it has stood all year is the problem. the past of voting rights bill, democrats going to need to change the rules in the senate. to do that, they're going to need manchin's vote. that's what it all comes down to. i manchin can be convinced that voting rights could pass some where along the way. reminding and just that one senator that it was robert byrd who says the rule of the senate
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has to change when time calls for them change. they have used every lever they possibly can to try to convince manchin to give in some way on the filibuster on making it possible to change the voting rights rules in this country with a 50 vote threshold and democrats have nothing to show for those efforts. garrett haake, thank you so much, we appreciate it. so, jonathan lemire, this is one of the moments where i am -- i understand that, i would be angry too if i am progressive. you look back over this year and because as we have been saying here for months, they have focused on this one bill as a definition of whether they succeeded or not.
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a historic bill to push back against china. let's talk about what matters the most to a lot of progressives. if i am not mistaken, you can correct me, joe biden ties the record for the most federal judges put on the bench in his first year. this is the difference in between having 50 senators in your caucus and 49 senators in your caucus. i am not exactly sure how democratic party gets to the end of the year and allows themselves to be defined as
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failures based on the non passage of one bill which is quite frankly can pass february or march and american voters won't know the difference come next november. >> i am confused by that and i am just wondering how does the white house move beyond defining their first year as successor failure based on a passage of timing of the passage of one bill. >> democrats themselves set these expectations and president biden embrace the idea being an lbj, fdr figure and change the relationship between the federal government and citizens. it's undeniable successes for this administration so far.
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we have so much writing on this. manchin's decision comes a a challenging time for this president, the president's central campaign was to restore competence to the government and prove the government can work for our citizens again and democracy can work. right now think of the images we are seeing. we are seeing covid cases soared and long lines at testing places across the country. inflation caused prices to rise. there is really no suggestion right now, the voting rights is not going anywhere because of the filibuster. now we have the president who if you look back and his aides are quick to point it out, there are a series of accomplishments
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here, vaccines are available for those who want them. those who are unvaccinated who are the blame for rising cases. the infrastructure money, that's about to start flowing. those are good things because they bet so big on this. joe biden says i get this done. the process has been so messy, right now they are staring at a loss, at least temporarily. >> joe, i wonder if what you are talking about, about how legislation moves give and take is the proper response to what we saw joe manchin do over the past few days. i guess what i mean is yes in the long-term politics is give and take. politics has a lot of different dynamics and people express themselves. manchin's moves of late to some seem antagonistic. is that fair? >> progressives can be upset.
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use your inside voice. >> i am. >> not you. >> talking about people at the white house who are upset. i would never tell you here to use your inside voice. you tell me that. >> well, there are times. >> david ignatius. i am struck again by the lack of recognition by many here that you should know better that it's never over. when you are the legislative process, maybe joe manchin is thinking okay they cornered me, i don't want to be cornered. i don't want to be this single guy. let's pull back. let's start taking these piece by piece. let's see if we can pull a couple of republicans in here and a couple of republicans here and there on the child tax credit plan. maybe there are thousand ways, i guess you can't say how you skin
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a cat. he said no to this bill. people in washington knows that have been in washington for a while that there is never a never in the legislative process. maybe he can't sell bbb to the people of west virginia in its current form. let's figure out how to get it in another form. let's figure out how to get the child tax credit. let's figure out how to get universal pre-k. let's do it in a way where whole eye of the world are glaring down on the guy, donald trump, got 69% of the votes. >> spoken like a former legislature and like we say in washington it's never over until it's over even when it's over. we are seeing that right now. manchin's defense.
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he's never straight of making the basic point but at a time inflation appears to be increasing problem for our economy. he's going to look very carefully these proposals and he's seen agonizing and on fox today that he could not get there. this is going to be a new effort to work on the concerns he has. besides if you are denied having personal concerns and legislative concerns if you are a member of the senate so, they're going to have to come back and look at this again. i am just -- with you joe and thinking i don't see this process being over. that's not what i am hearing from the people at the white house. yes, they were angry but they describe this as a dance. the next round of the dance ahead. i share your belief that at the end of this we'll get something. some version of build back
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better bill, it's not going to satisfy everybody. >> i believe we will to. washington is never over until it's over. that's exactly the case here. there is a false deadline put in place. we must have this by christmas and even the parliamentary is having problems with it. let's get it done. that's how blog posts want washington to work. that's how people who are new to washington, d.c. want things to work. that's how politicians under pressure base want things to work. that's how things get done. we are going to come back next year and this conversation going
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to continue in one form or another and there are key elements of this legislation that are extraordinary popular with the people of this country and yes, with voters in west virginia. i am pretty sure you will see talks about how to get those parts of the bill passed. it may not be in one massive historic bill for people to run at the top of mount olympus and clinch their fist, yes, this is apart of history and we won. it's an ongoing battle and fight. you want as many people on your side as you can get especially if you only have 50 senators from your party. >> david ignatius, thank you for being on. we appreciate it. we mentioned congresswoman
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ocasio-cortez will be our guest. she says don't blame senator manchin, blame democratic leaders who made a promise they could not keep. plus, the other big story this morning with covid cases doubling every few days. officials predict a record breaking number of hospitalizations. we'll talk about this and ask the question, are the u.s. medical system ready? a federal appeals court reinstate the president's vaccine mandates for private employers. it's one of the covid-related cases make its way through the courts. you are watching "morning joe," we'll be right back. "morning j we'll be right back. vo: just getting by, it's an ongoing struggle. that's why president biden and democrats in congress have a plan to lower costs for america's working families. lower costs of healthcare premiums
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good morning, sun rise over new york city, the city that never sleeps and the city that never quarantines. >> well -- >> it's a beautiful view. >> people don't go to work but they do love to go out. it's nice. okay, work at home, go out to dinner. does not make sense. coronavirus cases in the united states are surging as the omicron variant spreads across the country. in new york city more than 22,000 cases of coronavirus reported statewide yesterday. that's a new pandemic record for the third straight day. testing sites are being pushed to the brink with lines of people stretching around city blocks and wait times extending several hours. while omicron variants lead to
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break through cases among vaccinated people remains largely among the unvaccinated. this is is just in. moderna says this morning its booster does appear to provide protection against the omicron variant. the company announced from lab testing and found the version of its booster currently in use in the u.s. and elsewhere provided increase antibody levels to neutralize the virus. >> very good news from moderna. jonathan lemire, you were talking about these long lines in new york city. and the possible political fallout of joe biden. i may say there are other long lines in new york city. long lines around the block to see the new spider-man movie, breaking records and theaters jam packed and good luck getting reservations in restaurants and
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new york city where people want to go and eat. mika and i going out to eat with staff members and friends with a lot of different people. and, just packed, packed to the gils as they say. and so it's really a tale of two cities, a tale of two worlds. yes, you have long lines people getting tested and people trying to get the booster shot. at the same time you have people say we are going to shutdown until 2028, everybody going out to restaurants eating without masks and everybody is going to basketball games. everybody is going to football games. it's a little bizarre, is it? >> first of all, team moderna here, good news about the booster. it seems we are in a bit of an odd moment. things are changed a little bit
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with the omicron variant now surging. you are right, people are still going to restaurants. let's be clear about this. new york city has a covid vaccination requirement. you got to flash your phone or card in order to get in. that's something more and more cities are following. that should be the norms. that's the good news. we have seen a lot of broadway shows cancelled because of covid outbreaks. we have seen what happens on "saturday night live," we do have testing lines and it's impossible to go to cvs and walgreens to pick up an at home rapid test. there is concerns of the schools right now.
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mayor de blasio says schools are still open. no one is suggesting this is march 2020. this is a little more degree of worrying in the air in the last few days as these case numbers begin to surge. it's a balancing act for a lot of new yorkers going forward. >> you got both of the shots. if you have the booster and you have the moderna booster and you go outside times square, i am not a doctor, i am glad we do have a doctor here. but, chances are good and -- i will say it this way. we'll let doctors be doctors this show. we can't shut down our society again. if you got two vaccines and a booster and people going out to restaurants in new york city. we have done it several times. we have done events and we had a lot of people around us. we have been in a lot of restaurants and we have been on airplanes. we are vaccinated and listen, if people are unvaccinated, you
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know, they want to take risks, i have said it all alone. people smoke if they want to smoke. if they want to smoke, that's their business. they don't want to get vaccinate, that's their business. damn it, we are not going to shutdown this society again because of people who are not following basic science. >> that's the difference. that's where we are now where we all could be vaccinated and have a fight against this that's profound. the choices that some are making not to be vaccinated have this continue. >> joining us now, dr. padilla. i want to make sure fact-check everything we just said especially what i just said. that we would be in much better shape if more people were vaccinated because the problem
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here is ramping among the unvaccinated, that's number one. number two, is omicron for the vaccinated more dangerous than the flu? >> the first part is correct. the only other group that adds to that are the vaccinated at extreme of age who may not have gotten boosted yet. we know only 50% of those over 65 gotten their booster. we have to keep that group in mind. to your second point, people who received the booster, people who are healthy, you are well protected from severe disease. as you guys said, a lot of people who are boosted and well vaccinated asking the question of why do we have to as joe just said shutdown? i think that our good friend put it well, there is this middle
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balance between indifference and just feeling like the world is over. that's not, we are not there. we are not at square one. we do need to thread the needle a little bit. eventhough we are vaccinated and boosted and protected and the healthcare system are not as resilient than a year ago. flu is here, it's higher than last. we are fuelled with delta and making sure we have access to hospitalizations as where we needed. it's one of the reasons we want to put on extra layer and the masks and using it. >> that's what i am wondering. if you are boosted, you are safe, you can get a break through but you are okay like the flu. the flu does kill some people every year. so if you add the masks to that
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equation and i know that's controversial. booster, masks when you are in public places like times square situation or walking into a crowded restaurant, is that as best you can do and possibly full proof? >> that's right. i think that's exactly what we have to think about in the coming weeks. it's really not forever. it's looking at the fact that this is as fast moving variant when you see what it has done to south africa. the peak is off. cases are going down. you see europe and other places where cases are going up, similar to what we are seeing now. it's the next few weeks where you are seeing not just omicron. the fact that it's winter season and hospitals are generally full by this time of the year anyway that we need to take extra measures to reduce transmission
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so the virus are not found. those who are not vaccinated and vulnerable, that's what is happening now. but to a greater degree for the more transmissible variant is the worry that's occurring. >> again, i am so glad you added in because i did not talk about that and of course if you got both vaccines and boosted, you should be in good shape. let's say if you are diabetic and other immune challenges, you have to take extra precautions. right now europe is shutdown for christmas for the year. a lot of celebrations are being shutdown. we are now and i know lemire is talking about what to do on new year's eve. based on what we know and my son
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asks me hey dad i want to go to new year's eve celebration outside. and he had both vaccines and been boosted and he wants to wear a mask. his decision. do i not say to him you are in pretty good shape, buddy? go ahead. >> you and i have talked about this. outdoors are safer than indoors. it's safer verses less safe. outdoor space in a highly vaccinated city where everybody is also taking those extra layer is a much safer scenario. it's a more transmissible variant. as you said he would be very well protected against severe disease. even then all those layers you mentioned, one others added is
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getting tested and getting a rapid test and if they are available. in new york city is really having -- >> it's tough. >> that would be the extra layer, maybe reducing chances of anybody transmitting and coming into that crowd. >> there you go. >> doctor, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. >> and i want to under line what doctor has talked about, this is no time to shutdown schools. you look at the number vaccinated and the mental health challenges that is our children have been faced with as we understandably having a lot of schools shutting down in 2020. we are beyond that point now. it's the same thing again. the madness, think about this. i was talking about this before. the madness of opening
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restaurants all over new york city and all over the country. the madness of having casinos open. the madness of all these sport centers opened up. >> bakeries. candy stores. eddie glaude, you name it, i am glad it's open. >> there are people who are obviously small business owners who suffered measurably through this. just as others have suffered. the idea that were going to keep everything open but shutdown schools. does not make sense. >> well, that's true. you know we have to be mindful over 800,000 people are dead. by the end of the first quarter of 2022, we'll be at a million. i must admit my christmas
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holiday has been interrupted. we had a break through infection in my own household. i won't be visiting my mom and dad because i want to protect them. we talk about panic and anxiety where we talk about the market and how it can spook the market and we don't know what it's. there is a palpable sense of worries in the country. i understand that you are hopeful. here i am in my own experience now and i am deeply worried not only as a parent but as a professor. i know what happened at princeton where we had to go remote for our final exams for our students. i am deeply concerned and i understand your optimism and hopefulness. >> it's mainly let's put our head down and move forward and
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use science. i think the next couple of weeks are going to be challenging for people. i will say there is a huge difference though. mika, we have heard so many people we know. people in our neighborhood, good friends and close friends that have this virus now and people got friends and neighbors whose entire offices have been shutdown because covid have swept through. the difference though in attitude and it's a good thing. people are not worried that it's a death sentence. if they have been vaccinated and boosted, they understand there may be some discomfort and they don't want it to spread but they're like okay, we'll keep our head down and marching on and we'll get through this. >> we have learned how to do this. if you are older and if you have
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underlying conditions like one of my sons. >> it's different. >> i got one son that i would say hell yeah go to new year's eve in new york city, hey, let's watch it on tv. you have to take it as it comes. overall as a country, we need to keep moving forward and listen to science and medicine, we need to keep our schools open. damn it, if the restaurants are open and if you know arenas are open, candy stores are open and bakeries are open and bars and casinos, some point maybe we can have our offices reopened. >> get a vaccine mandates and open doors. >> i am concerned of younger workers. younger workers need the guidance. younger workers need a helping
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hand. >> i see a difference in them already. this is extremely hard for their ability to grow and connect in the workplace. it's hypocriical if you are going out and wear a mask and if you are coming to work and sitting in close space. this does not make sense. >> they don't wear it. in new york at least, no masks in restaurants because there is a vaccine mandate. >> you walk in and you show your vaccine card and you take off your mask to eat and put on your mask and walk out. >> same thing with bars. we need to start being concern again with schools and keeping them open and be concerned of younger workers, making sure
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they get the helping hand and mentorship they need. also, in the isolation, we are people and we are communal. at some point is just again and new york city is particularly maddening because the place is still open for business. except in office spaces. >> a federal appeals court ruled on friday that the government can enforce its vaccines and testing rules in private companies with more than 100 employees. the decision from the six u.s. circuit court of appeals which blocks the mandate. the white house says it will protect workers especially as the u.s. faces this highly transmissible omicron variant. republicans say state attorney generals and conservative groups say they'll appeal friday's
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decision to u.s. supreme court. joining us now charles coleman who we are happy to have aboard. welcome and congratulations. >> charles, i spent the past several years trying to explain to friends of the inconsistencies and the outcome seems radically different because they'll support one state, let's say tough vaccine mandates and they'll support another state that bans vaccine mandates. we'll use those two fact patterns. little bit different of osha regulation. i still think the robert's court would say well, this is not our business, we don't know what's going into it because it's another branch. usually, i think they would lend
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deference to the executive branch. this case may be different. what are your thoughts? >> joe and mika to the entire team, thank you for having me. super excited to be apart of it. >> great to have you. >> with respect to your question of what we can expect for see, you will see a punt back in the states in terms of deference, i know your point of what will likely happen in terms of deferring to the government and the executive is likely to happen. there are so many different approaches taken across the board. i know that osha made this ruling and i know the question with regards to the sixth circuit, was there an over reach. could they use emergency powers in terms of being able to mandate this vaccine requirement in the private sector, they found they could. they found basically this was such a situation of grave
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importance that there was such a grave threat to public safety and workers that they could. i think the robert's court is likely to going to defer to states and what they like to do . my guess is we are going to see a punts authority here. >> congratulations charles, we are glad to have you on board. the mayor here is saying every company needs to have vaccines and have their employees vaccinated. is this a matter deference to local courts. walk us through what's happening there. i think you are going to see what's happening in those cases is a situation where some of the smaller business claims this will be a burden.
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and sometimes the authority, courts are going to hold that municipalities can institute measures that are going to provide for these vaccine mandates in private businesses as long as they are not burden some on the work force. i don't see any cases how that can be. my expectation is that these are going to continue to stand. the other thing i am going to point out. as we see more variants and see more cases going up and rise, those are big pieces to support that these cases are going to have for businesses and mandates or municipalities. the fact that we see increase in numbers are going to make a huge difference to have these mandates in place.
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>> former prosecutor now and legal analyst, charles coleman, thank you very much. back to the political bomb shell. the lynch pin in the 50/50 senate said he'll not support president biden's build back better bill plan in an interview on fox news on sunday. >> i have said this, if i can't go home and explain it to the people of west virginia, i can't vote for it. i can't vote to continue with this piece of legislation. i just cannot. i have tried everything humanly possible. i can't get there. >> you are done. >> this is a no. >> this is a no on this legislation. i have tried everything i know to do. >> the president put out a statement saying you still
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supported it and reporters asked you about that and you said. the president put out that statement, it's his statement and not mine. it makes more sense why you said that. you are a no. >> i have tried. i really did. the president was trying as hard as he could. he has a lot on his plate and more that he needs this to continue and the challenges wefr from different parts of our party pushing in different ways so everyone still has the aspirational things they want to do. we'll cut it down. that's not being genuine as far as i am concerned. let's bring in eugene robinson.
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ed luce, mara gay and jonathan lemire is still with us. ed luce, i thought what manchin said was a real tale. last week he came back of the child bill that took up the majority of it. for months the parliamentary has to approve this. he talked about and again the fact that you look at how they cobble this together. another program will start six years in. he's talked about budget gimmicks. at the end of the day, i don't think he believed the numbers. he's been telegraphing that and
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yet i have got to say, democrats, the white house and liberal bloggers this is going to be done in the next week or so and wrapped under the christmas tree with a nice tdy bow on it when nothing joe manchin said publicly that's going to suggest it ever going to happen. >> he's right there is a lot of budget gimmicks here. >> the reason why democrats resorted to this was he opposed the revenues and tax increases and opposed all measures that would have helped fund this bill
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fully. i think for manchin to say, well, you have done what i have asked you, and now i am going to punish you for it. i am not sure if it's very easy to negotiate with that. he seems to be moving the gold post. i think he's just playing hard to get. i don't mean anybody in this town has any idea of what his ultimate goal is. >> it's possible to imagine that manchin is playing hardball in order to achieve a better outcome. he's complaining of the national debt and he's opposing this bill but that would not rule out him
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supporting it. congress sort of trimming down the bill by identifying programs to eliminate, manchin may be well helping the process by dropping a bomb. democrats need to understand their old policy design is dead so they can restart the negotiations on manchin's terms where the white house decided to personalize and attack a senator who supported needs is difficult to fathom. the bill may be dead but democrats can't give up on the last chance to make the economy a little fairer and to take action to mitigate climate disaster. that'll make an already frustrated and angry progressive caucus even more angry. >>. >> absolutely. what you heard yesterday from
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progressives and the senator and the white house and what you will hear today and the next few days is that anger at manchin because he has and ed luce says of having the goal post. and also the idea that manchin were frankly of any senators from other party would be shocked at budget giving in a bill. and budget giving in any spending bill have been at least since i have been in washington. progressives have gone along and they have swallowed hard and now get the same. we told you this would happen and we told you if we went ahead with infrastructure and got with
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the program, we are dealing with these bills that we want to consider that manchin in the end would say no. that's what's happened. moving forward. it's a 50/50 senate. without joe manchin, mitch mcconnell has learned and democrats get exactly zero done that's a reality that everybody knows and we'll return to being the dominant reality. unless somebody can find me a republican who's willing to.
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>> the party is stuck with manchin. >> that's what the democratic party needs to do. they need to get a bigger majority. >> that would help. >> how to get a big majority so they don't have this problem on manchin. here is an ultimate task for democrats and their dialect thinking. it's true on one hand that joe manchin frustrated them and he's moved the goal post and he's the reason along the 49 democrats that joe biden has appointed more federal judges in his first year than any president other than ronald reagan. >> you do accept then that he moved the gold post along with it. >> progressives have every
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reason to be upset. there is a real challenge for the president who gave his word that he could and there is a real challenge for joe manchin who gave his word. he gave his word and said i shook president biden's hand. manchin said "i shook biden's hand and he and i gave each other their word that we would support $1.5 trillion bill." the honor is on manchin now. drop that $1.5 trillion bill that you gave your word as a man to joe biden.
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>> okay, let's stop talking about what you don't support and show us what you do support. give us your $1.75 trillion bill, joe. what would it look like and let democrats chew on that for a little bit. >> mara gay, what do you make of manchin's reversal and how it went down? do you see it in the category of this is the process of politics and legislation? a lot of give and take moving from one side to the other? as some progressives say is something worse. >> it's hard to see beyond the reality of the democratic party of the agenda and the american people's agenda is being held
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hostage. that's extremely frustrating and i think at this moment that's what we are dealing with. joe, you are exactly right, we really unfortunately right now the country has to kind of get a sense for, what do you want. what democrats need to do is speed through this process to get a win to hold onto their majority and they can secure vote rights which is the other major priority that's following by the waist side. everything that progressives want or anybody in the united states is going to slide off the cliff real fast if republicans in the state they are in right now is the party that sees power in washington. >> i want to pick up joe's point a moment ago.
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>> he brought a proposal here i can live with this and there were some disagreements. that's why they felt so betrayed without any notice switching to a no in that conversation yesterday. my question to you if you are the white house, how do you deal with the problem that's joe manchin and we recognize one more point here that there is this concern that he can flip party. a senior white house aide says yesterday if he does that, he loses all his leverage. >> i want to pick up what you said and understanding the motivation behind this. sometimes we can make things more complicated. why are politicians drawn to
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office? they want power and attention. this is manchin's moment. it may be as simple as he wants another two weeks or four weeks. and if you are the white house, you a, understand that and b, say to joe's point earlier. what is exactly going to take? this is a politician sucking up the air. he's not special anymore. right now and how many more moments in his life is joe manchin get to be the center of the universe. the most important political figure in this country right now. simple as that. politician is motivation. he can talk about all the bs, i got to go back to west virginia. if he goes back to west virginia and signing the bill and went back six weeks now signing it is
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not going to make a difference. it's joe manchin extending his show. >> chuck schumer writing democrats will still vote on a revised version of the house passed build back better bill act in the new year. schumer also said the senate will consider voting rights legislation as early as the first week back. he writes "i would ask you to consider this question: if the right to vote is the corner stone of our democracy, then how can we in good conscious allow for a situation in which republican party can debate and pass voter up suppression -- >> on friday, president biden spoke at the commencement where he vowed to continue to pass new vote rights legislation. >> this new sinister combination
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of voter suppression, is un-american. it's undemocratic and sadly it's unprecedented since reconstruction. we support democrats fighting for our voting rights bill since day one. each and every time we brought it up, the other team blocks the ability even to discuss it with the other team. it used to be called the republican party. but this battle is not over. we must pass the freedom to vote act, the john lewis' voting rights act. we'll keep up the fight until we get it done. we need your help badly. >> eugene, it had to be awfully personal for you, orangeburg, your home. you grew up.
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it's hard to believe what a different time it was. here we are talking about vote rights. talk about that trip. it was incredible experience for me. it was my hometown where i grew up in orangeburg. the auditorium where president biden spoke is named after the three students who were killed in 1968 in the orangeburg massacre where troopers actually shot like 27 people who were demonstrating in a civil rights demonstration, unarmed victims of course. mostly shot in the back. there was a lot of residence there. and what struck me how strong president biden was on the voting rights issue and the
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question. my first thought was given where we were in the history that i saw growing up in orangeburg is all too american. this is not new. it's something that we thought we had move past. we thought we established for all americans to vote and have their votes counted. that's in jeopardy right now and being jeopardized by the republican party. the president was very strong on that point. it seems to me to indicate a new push in that direction. how do you get it?
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>> again, how do you get it? if you are going to get around the filibuster rule. let's keep in mind that it's not just manchin and sinema. it's manchin and sinema plus 50 republican senators who no longer believe the right to vote in this country is sacred and has to be protected as it's protected in the 1965 voting rights act whose extension even strohm thurman, my old senator voted for. today republicans won't even debate the same provision. it's astonishing. not just manchin and sinema but 50 republicans. >> absolutely. >> i believe it's 2005 or 2006, every single republican voted the reauthorize of the voting
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rights act. not one stepping forward to do it today. >> mara gay, i understand the focus on bbb this morning because of the news today. there is no important bill to pass than these vote rights bill for democrats over the next year. would you agree with that? >> it's absolutely right. >> without it we can't get anything else done. there is no democracy. >> the stakes could not be higher. i didn't grow up in orangeburg but my dad did in south carolina
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as well. you heard from the president that this is un-american that stripping people of vote rights is exotic or foreign. my father is well and living and he has a vivid memory of jim crow. >> at times he was being asked to go to segregated schools and his parents would not let him do that. that was a different story for different time. all of this to say that we are not even a single generation removed. it's remarkable but we can't lose sight that we are at quite a young democracy that these
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games are fragile and we have a republican party for whatever reasons decided rather than remaining competitive and competitive elections and presenting ideas and solutions to the american people it's solution right now is to hold onto power by any means possible and that means stripping americans who's been at the center of democracy. black americans and others in that coalition of the right to vote. the fate is directly tied to the ability of black americans to vote and other americans, native americans and latino americans who had their voting rights and their citizenship imperil. if we can't vote, there will be no democracy, there could be no compromise. >>. >> you bring up such great point and talking about your father
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and jean as well. you talk about the incredible gains he made over the last generation. my first year in mississippi and first grade, we were the first integrated class. schools across america were still segregated. we have made great progress and i am reminded of john meacham as we are talking about these issues and as well as abraham lincoln and he told me "i may walk slowly but never backward," that's really a beautiful way to look at the journey we have been on over the past five to six decades. we may walk slowly but have not
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walked backward, that's the threat and the risk right now. if we don't move forward, we'll be walking backward. >> that's right. >> no doubt about it. it's a conversation by the way that's happening in i am sure many american families but in black families all over the country. there is a lot of grief right now. i don't want to say fear because we are quite determined. there is been some dark days in this country. we often don't want to remember that. in some families in america there is a very vivid history. it feels closer than it has in decades. >> so ed luce, what do democrats do? frustrated by manchin and have been frustrated with sinema on bbb and perhaps taking some new
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form in the new year. manchin announced he shook hands with biden and gave him his word. at some point they'll fulfill that commitment. now we move to vote rights and democrats are going to find themselves angry. what do democrats do? how do they move beyond this? >> i think as jean and mara eloquently put there is nothing important than the voting rights. manchin here is given the opportunity by chuck schumer to negotiate with republicans, a compromise bill on voting rights and to get the ten he would need to take it about 60 and preserve
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the filibuster. he's been given all the time and the scope that he asked for to get those ten republican vote. no mit romney and lisa murkowski, we have gone to a party that used to unanimously renewing the voting rights act to a party that apparently now unanimously opposes it. so manchin is being given the opportunity to prove that wrong. i don't think he proved it wrong. now it's time to vote. do you agree we should suspend the filibuster for this critical piece of legislation to protect this young and fragile democracy as mara put it. that's a stronger potential
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shaming moment for senator manchin as a democrat and what's happening with build back better bill. i don't give too high ods for build back better bill being passed. i would agree voting rights, the john lewis act these are surpassing importance for the future republic. >> let's be clear. with manchin, sinema and mitch mcconnell when they wanted to pass a mechanism, a legislative mechanism that would allow the debt ceiling to be passed and raised with only 50 votes, they figured out a way to do it. no hand rings over destroying
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the filibuster and the integrity of the senate and the traditional. oh, if we do this. what will they do to us two years from now. you are totally fine doing it. huge propaganda win globally so why cannot you do that for all americans? you have no excuse. i have got to say the hypocrisy is laid bare here. if anybody mentions the word filibuster after they had a legislative device that allowed them to raise the ceiling of 50 votes. ed luce, eugene robinson and mara gay. we need to turn back to covid-19
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cases doubling in u.s. joining us now is dr. jha. >> what was your point here and where do we stand with omicron? >> yes, first of all, thank you for having me back. omicron is spreading rapidly across the country. majority of infections are in new york city now, it will be in a town or city near you. that's kind of what we are heading into as we head full into the holidays. what i am hearing from school districts already questions about going remote. i think it's a responsible at this point to do that. we have all the tool to keep schools open and safe and vaccinations and testing and improving ventilations and tens of billions of dollars have gone to school. if i hear a single school district that goes remote and keeping bars open. what it says to me is they don't
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care about kids and covid. bars spread covid. and i am worried that city leaders are going to give up on kids and not do the right thing. >> doc, we have been talking about hypocrisy of what we see in new york city all the time. we keep bars opened and you hear restaurants open. you keep every sporting event opened and clubs are people are pack in like sardines, i am not complaining. i think we have to reopen. the idea during covid in nevada, they were shutting down church services but casinos were opened. there is an inconsistency here and i love what you are saying here. we have to learn to live with it. we certainly have to protect our children especially their mental
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health and their learning. this is absolutely critical. >> it's. the good news is we know how to do it. this is not march of 2020. we got all of these tools and capabilities. the government has done a good job of making these things widely available. i wish we had more testing. that's the one place i think the administration needs to do more. the bottom line is these tools are here, we have them. let's use them. we had very little in the way of outbreak because we are using mitigation efforts. let's go. let's keep going and keep kids in school. >> are we at the point where we can say for those who are boosted and wear a mask and use the proper mitigation
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techniques. are they save from omicron. is omicron as simple as the flu to them? >> the question is what do you mean by safe? is it as bad as the flu? >> i think if you are boosted, it's going to be milder than the flu. when we get done with omicron and we look at what happens to people who are boosted, it will end up like a bad cold. for unvaccinated people is totally a different equation. i think omicron will cause a lot of infection but it will not cause serious problems. all right, school of public health, doctor, thank you so much for being on. still ahead, congresswoman ocasio-cortez will be our guest and she says it's democratic leaders not manchin who have
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some explaining to do about the build back better bill. plus, one of the january 6th capitol insurrectionist gets the longest sentence yet for participating in the attack. what it means for other defendants facing charges. you are watching "morning joe," we'll be rielgt back. ♪ i see trees of green ♪ ♪ red roses too ♪ ♪ i see them bloom ♪ ♪ for me and you ♪ ♪ and i think to myself ♪ ♪ what a wonderful world ♪ a rich life is about more than just money. that's why at vanguard, you're more than just an investor, you're an owner so you can build a future for those you love. vanguard. become an owner.
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. it's 7:30 in times square. >> not a lot of traffic right now. >> we are moving into the holiday season. they're walking at home. >> they were busy out last night. >> i will tell you what they'll
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not be doing in times square is not watching broadway shows. >> there we go. we got some ice skaters out there. a beautiful view in new york and christmas. i am not talking about the ice skaters but donny deutsche wearing his gangster jacket. with black underneath, that's christmas in new york city. i las vegas listening to dr. sha here. it's still very dangerous as i
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said. i got a son who's diabetic, we'll take special care with him. i love what dr. sha said, we don't need to bubble wrap this country. we don't need to bubble wrap our children. our children keep school open and secondly if you are boosted, dr. sha says the effect of omicron will be less than the flu. that's news that the american people and the administration and government leaders need to get in their head. it's not march of 2020. we had a year and a half to figure it out. we got a lot of tools to keep americans safer. if you get this and again if you are boosted, you should be in good shape. >> yes, i was kind of really taking with that set of words also.
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it's interesting if this seems to be not your father's covid. obviously it's still a virus nobody wants to get. what i hear from people that i am not hearing people get very sick. i am not a doctor, i am talking about my own research and my focus group that it's not. i was out in the city this past weekend, it was packed. i think people are feeling that because they are not hearing the stories of people on respiratories or dying. and certainly there will be some people who are at high risk. i think this is an interesting precursor that all viruses are not created equal. we are coming off a year and a half of covid and we saw what it did with a hundred thousand deaths. this one is not that case. i think as a society, these viruses are going to get branded
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almost. i don't mean to be callace about this. this is not going to be a shutdown or a bubble wrap. i think people i have seen approaching it differently at this point. >> people are not but i am saying last year nobody was going on vacations. it was a different world. i have not heard anybody cancelling vacations. >> davos. >> i think certain groups or sale meetings is not at necessarily at this point. day-to-day life, i don't think it has changed dramatically. >> mika, one area that people are concerned about. hospitals and doctors and nurses are very concerned because of
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the unvaccinated. you have a healthcare system that is already strained from a year and a half of this extraordinary historic crisis. there are millions and millions of unvaccinated people that are of course high-risk and everything we have just said, i want to be careful. i don't want anybody to misunderstand what i have said. if you are vaccinated and boosted, you are in good shape. if you are not vaccinated right now, this is a real danger. mika, that danger is going to move again into emergency rooms and move into icus and so those lives are going to be at risk and a lot of people won't be able to get into the hospital because of the surge of unvaccinated who are filling up emergency rooms now for six months. yes, we'll be following that. after nearly two years of
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blockbuster sales because of coronavirus, "spider-man:no way home" shattered records. the third best opening of all time. >> unbelievable. >> people are going back to theaters. >> yes, several live shows cancelled performances amid of this latest surge in cases. "hamilton" and "aladdin" has cancelled because of covid infections among crews. and the rockettes announced their cancellation. >> what's happening with broadway? is it shutting down completely
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again? >> it's so great to be with you guys this morning. i am here to report broadway is not shutting down. yes, this weekend we saw ten shows of brief pauses but there are 32 shows currently playing on broadway, broadway is not shutting down. this industry works so hard to get backup and running over the past year and a half. and yes, there has been outbreaks with different companies dating back to september. but, they are so safe backstage and they know what they are doing. i feel safe as an audience member. i feel safe going backstage with all the covid protocols. broadway is not shutting down. >> then talk to me about radio city. it's interesting. to my broadway is the gold standards. you have to be masked and
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vaccinated. i had to get a pcr test and a rapid test just to interact with the lead actress, right? that's not necessarily the case with other venues around the city. i know radio city falls under the madison square garden umbrella. their protocol is a little different. they are following cdc's guidelines and in terms of what they need to do. broadway to me is the gold standard. >> looking ahead, what do you expect in store for shows that are scheduled to be opened next month. are they regrouping? are they playing it by ear? >> well, look at michael jackson musical, mj, that show is taking a brief pause because they just got up on their feet and they had to take a pause because of break out cases. they're start previews at the end of the month. january 17th they're going to
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require that all audience members have the booster shot. we'll see it on broadway. the public theater here gave us "hamilton" years ago, they are requiring prc tests and rapid tests in order to enter from audience members. that may trickle in of covid protocols. >> what's the advise for getting in? >> if you have questions on whether or not your show is cancelled, head to the website and i suggest checking out our twitter and instagram feeds for our specific shows. those platforms tend to have the most up to date information. >> all right, frank, thank you so much for that info..
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>> thank you so much frank. >> you know tj and monica are coming into the city. we watch the broadway play a week or two. they cancelled it. >> they did. >> did you get your money back? >> we did. >> they cancelled "the american utopia" as we were coming into the city, but we booked another show, went to that. and they refunded us the next day. >> good. >> very good. >> that's fantastic. >> i wasn't sure if they really cancelled because of covid or they knew tlk was coming. >> oh, stop it. >> t.j., we need to go see "american utopia" together. >> a reporter sho says donald trump seems deeply unnerved as the investigation into the attack closes in. i think he should be. and what's the inflation? according to "the onion" it's
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the general increase in people lying to reporters that they were paying $0.99 for a gallon of milk just last week. celebrating 29 years on "the onion".
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three times. a third down. their defense has been on the field a lot. 15 more plays. brady. pressured. gets out. he's going to run for it again. forced the fumble. and the saints recover. >> jonathan lamire, what a game. what a game. quite a few interesting games. jack and i yesterday watched the hapless new york giants lose to the cowboys. what a shocker. the cardinals who started 10 and 2, lost to the lions.
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i think the team was 11-1. but i don't watch a lot of nfl, but we're getting close to playoffs and suddenly this season is taking shape. >> joe, you watched a giants game? why? nothing good comes of watching a new york giants game. we saw there the new orleans saints marched to the tampa bay and delivered the buck anears their first loss of the season. he shouldn't run the ball. the saints have beaten the bucks in the last seven regular season meetings. tampa defeated them in last year's playoffs. tom, don't run. this is only the third time in brady's career he's been shut out. it should be noted he was without several of his top receivers and leading rusher. >> but his teeth are beautiful and white. >> he was defeated, but he still looked handsome throughout. joe, as you mentioned, a surprise upset in detroit.
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the lions blow out the cardinals 30-12. arizona started the season 7-0. they've now lost four of their last season falling to 4th in the conference. they still cling to a one-game lead across the nfc west. the lions recorded their second win of the season. here's good sports need amid the covid cancellations. tiger woods returned to competitive golf ten months after a car crash that severely danieled his right leg, and he played alongside his 12-year-old son charlie. they have the same mannerisms, by the way. and a remarkable final round yesterday. tiger and charlie wheeled off 11 straight birdies to finish in second two strokes behind a beautifully bearded john daily and his 18-year-old son. look at his beard. there it is. santa claus. >> look at that. beautiful. he's back. he's better than ever.
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santa wins the tournament with little claus, junior. >> donny, help me out. i was talking about the giants. we were watching. i think jack wanted to watch the cowboys yesterday. it may have had something to do with his fantasy football taemt. i sit there just watching the giants losing again, of course, the jets, a team i've followed since joe namoth and loved the jets. just terrible. i look at the new york nicks and i wonder how the top media market in the world continues to field such sub par teams. i mean, in the case of the knicks, it's criminal. >> it started with hope, but they're three or four games under .500. the yankees have not won anything since 2009. that's 12 years. that's a long run in new york. the mets, the new owner, there's hope there. i cannot remember a time as a new york sports fan, and
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starting with the football teams, it's egregious and depressing. sports is a big part of everybody's lives. i don't even turn on the jets or the giants. there was another great game, the green bay/baltimore game. aaron rodgers keeps doing it. he and brady defy it. the league will miss both of them when they move on. >> and donny, we're going to miss you when we say good-bye to you right now. >> good-bye. miss you. >> it's great to have the flash of christmas with us with the pinstripes. maybe, mika, i can get a pinstripe. >> i think maybe donny needs to get some new clothes for christmas. >> no. >> still ahead, democrats are plotting their next steps after joe manchin delivered a potentially fatal blow to the build back better act. alexandria ocasio-cortez joins us at the top of the hour with her thoughts on that. "morning joe" is back in a moment. these are the faces
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zblanchts live look at the capital in washington d.c. it is the top of the hour, 8:00 on the east coast, and it's good to have you all with us. welcome back to "morning joe." president biden left negotiations with senator joe manchin last week thinking a deal on his massive spending package was in sight, but then the bomb shell on fox no less, that manchin was a no. nbc news white house correspondent monica alba has the latest. >> a potentially fatal blow to president biden's massive social spending and climate plan. >> this is a no. >> senator joe manchin, a democratic holdout for months over the size and scope of the package, closing the door on the $1.7 trillion bill in its current form. >> i cannot vote to continue with this piece of legislation.
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i just can't. i've tried everything humanly possible. i can't get there. >> the white house firing back in a lengthy blistering statement. writing manchin's comments are, quote, at odds with his conversations with the president this week where he pledged to keep negotiations going. if his comments indicate an end to that effort, they represent a sudden and inexplicable reversal in his position and a breach of his commitments to the president. the proposal which democrats had hoped to pass this year but ultimately punted to 2022, includes $555 billion to combat climate change. as well as funding for child care, elder care, and health care. just days ago the president was optimistic manchin would come around, saying we will bridge our differences and advance the build back better plan. but soaring inflation put the support further in doubt leaving progressives livid sunday. >> if he doesn't have the courage to do the right thing
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for the working families of west virginia and america, let him vote no in front of the whole world. >> we've been gauging the reaction and analyzing this all morning long. let's turn now to democratic congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez of new york. thank you so much for being with us. >> congresswoman, thanks for being with us. last time we talked, we discussed how -- how patient progressives had been throughout this entire process. that patience didn't pay off yesterday. what's your reaction? >> well, i think what senator manchin did yesterday represents such an egregious breach of the trust of the president, and it's also -- this is exactly why -- it's an outcome we warned about. well over a month ago. about needing to plan a contingency plan for it. it's why we insisted on having the bipartisan infrastructure plan coupled and passed together with the build back better act.
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but i think right now we are at a juncture where it's not really about i think being -- i mean, of course we have every right to be furious with joe manchin, but it's really up to leadership in the democratic party who made the decision to get us to this juncture and how we're going to move forward. i think right now that democratic leadership has a very large number of tools at their disposal. the president particularly. and it's really about time that we take the kid gloves off and start using them to govern for working families in this country. >> well, congresswoman, you said yesterday that you were not upset with joe manchin as much as you were with democratic leaders. and let's -- as my grandmother from dalton, georgia used to say, let's just take the rag off the churn. that starts with the president of the united states, doesn't it? he's the one who shook hands with joe manchin. they said they had an agreement
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on $1.75 trillion bill. and the president told you all that you could trust him. he could bring joe manchin along. how do you work with the white house moving forward? >> well, you know, i think as i said earlier, when we were in negotiations, originally the entire country's infrastructure plan was passed with all democratic votes. it was a decision to separate these two bills and just break apart one part that -- which was this quote, unquote, bipartisan infrastructure plan that has a lot of fossil fuel subsidy give aways of which manchin is a known ally of the fossil fuel industry. and then separate the extension of child tax credits. separate the real actions that are going to protect us from climate change into the build back better act.
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the decision to separate and advance the bipartisan infrastructure bill happened. some of us took umbrage with that. and the president did say that the bipartisan -- i mean, rather, the build back better act was promised and that she's got it. we said you know, with respect to the president, he can't -- no one can really promise a manchin vote. and so we need to really figure out what the solution is, because at the end of the day, when the clock strikes midnight on new year's, we are talking about millions of families in the united states having their child tax credits expire. the president made the announcement just this past week that he does not have an intention on extending the student loan deadline. and both of these things in addition to the untenable situation of voting rights in this country, all three of these things are completely unacceptable. and so what we really need to do
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is, i think, is have folks that really know -- our leadership needs to step up. and i think that we can do that. i do not believe that the situation is beyond repair. but it's going to take a different kind of thinking to get out of it than it did to get into it. >> not beyond repair. then what do you and members of your caucus plan to do in the coming days? what are the options on the table? >> well, you know, i do think that there are quite a few things that have been going on in the senate. you, joe, having served in the house, you know how they turn the screws on the house of representatives. they will have us voting late. they will make your life very tough. and i must say that folks sometimes jokingly call senate private school for a reason. we are treating the senate -- just the fact that you can go on fox news and say i don't feel like voting for this, or i don't think i'm going to do it.
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having that not schedule a vote, the idea that would happen in the house of representatives is unheard of. and i think what's extremely important is that we really need to start creating an environment of pressure, very similar to the filibuster, where now you don't even need to talk to engage a filibuster, but you just need to threaten it. but we really need to create a governing environment in the united states senate, make it tough, don't go on vacation. come back. call the vote. have to stand in front of your constituents and say no, i'm going to take dollars. i'm going to take the food out of your kids' mouths. make him take that vote. they made us take the vote for the bipartisan infrastructure bill. it was a tough vote. it wasn't easy. and we have to stop giving people get out of jail free cards. enough. enough. it's really about time that we start to get serious about governing. as well as leaning on the president's executive authority which i do not believe has been
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used to the fullest extent that the american people deserve. >> yeah, and congresswoman, we always refer to the senate as the house of lords. and you're exactly right. they would say openly, the house doesn't matter, and we would often act like that. when, of course, the house matters every bit as much as the united states senate. >> not only that, joe -- >> go ahead. >> i was just going to say not only that, joe, but not only is it the house is just as important. the house right now arguably is one of the only federal democratically elected governing majorities that we have left. the senate notoriously is designed for lower populouses to have more power than larger populations. the presidency is determined by the electoral college, and we are simply lucky this time the majority of voters lined up with
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the electoral college determination. the house of representatives, and that's even with the gerrymandering. the reliably delivers the majority of people and voters of the united states of america. that is why they call this the people's house. when folks say this has nothing to do. you don't know the voters there or here, it is extremely difficult to hold together a house majority, and especially with the raiser thin margin that we have around this agenda. so the idea that joe manchin says he can't explain this back home to his people is a farce. i mean, it's a farce in terms of playing democracy, because i represent more or just as many or more people than joe manchin does. perhaps more. but secondly, and importantly, is that if you can't explain to
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your constituents why the child tax credit that they are getting right now to help feed their kids in a time of record high prices should not be extended, that doesn't seem like a problem with his constituents. that seems like a problem with his ability to either communicate or really i think there's a different reason behind this vote. >> you know, you bring up a great point about the senate. and about the fact that at times, and i'm not pointing fingers at chuck schumer. i think the senate is an institution, it's designed for members to protect members. a great example is we have been talking for six months about how ted cruz has stopped nominations for ambassadorships, people working in the state department. well, actually, when chuck
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schumer was allowed to and members agreed to do it, they just went to the floor and chuck schumer said we're going to stay here through christmas. and we're going -- we've got 40, 41 ambassadors. we're going to get through whether you guys like it or not. and suddenly, boom, ted cruz is trying to compromise. he's trying to strike a middle ground. and they get through. and it just -- it seems to me it's the same thing with the filibuster. you know, senators are allowed to say for voting rights, oh, we can't destroy the filibuster. because that would wipe my guy. that would destroy democracy. and what will they do to us? and then you see when they need to pass a debt ceiling increase, which i'm glad they passed, they figured out how to do it with 50 votes. this is a scam. anybody that talks about the filibuster after what they did a couple weeks ago, they're operating in bad faith, and they just don't want voting rights to happen. >> absolutely.
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absolutely. and this idea that, again, over time has switched from a talking filibuster to now just being able to stand up and posture and make a threat. god forbid they might have to actually show up and stand or sit and actually have to talk and actually live out the threat of their filibuster. i mean, it is unconscionable the way the senate operates. it's fundamentally undemocratic. and now what it's doing is allowing stripping of people's voting rights across the country. we are in a crisis. 19 states have passed over 33 laws to limit or restrict the right to vote in the united states of america. we are beyond the time for something to pass. and my concern is that even manchin's compromise or the fact that he was making statements just this past week, that he was just having conversations with the parliamentarian about voting
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rights that were illuminating, how has this not happened all yearlong? and so what we really need to do is crack down on the senate which operates like an old boy's club that has a couple of gals in it that have managed to breakthrough, and we need to actually institute some -- we need to implement some institutional discipline. if people want to threaten to block ambassadorships, if they want to threaten dysfunction, they need to show up and do it. they need to show up and do a talking filibuster. by the way, that is the compromise, because there shouldn't be a filibuster in the first place. and they need to make sure we're calling people to their threats. and this idea that we can just go on fox news or go on any -- and legislate through television, and say that we are going to threaten to block ambassadorships, or threaten a filibuster or threaten to vote no, have that result in actual
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institutional inaction is unacceptable. again, it takes the president of the united states who i believe needs to be more forceful on the filibuster. he needs to also lean, i believe, on his executive authority and say if you're going to get in the way, we're going to find other ways to do this. and it's either you're with us or not with us. but this train is moving. and we need to govern. because the united states house of representatives is delivering an agenda for the people. we cannot blame mitch mcconnell, and we cannot blame joe manchin either. because we have tools at our disposal with the trifek a. what we need to do is think and prioritize the communities that elected those majorities. and that includes poor people, the working class, middle class americans, black americans, immigrant communities, and more. and it is -- we have to move past a politics as usual that compromises all of those folks for a very narrow band of
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affluent voters. because when elections are determined by one to two points, we cannot afford a collapse in turnout in anybody. in swing districts, in youth voters, in black communities, period, for whatever reason. every single community is critical right now. and we cannot allow -- we cannot allow the climate crisis to become a catastrophe. which is what is -- which is what is represented right now with this bill going by the wayside or being trimmed down any further. because as i've said in the house democratic caucus, some of us are actually going to have to live on this planet in 50 years. and right now what happens right now determines how bad it's going to be. and so this is real life. this is serious. and we need to govern like it. >> yeah. jonathan lamire is with us and has a question. jonathan, really briefly, get us updated on the talking filibuster which, of course,
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makes too much sense. my feeling is if somebody wants to filibuster, they need to be on the floor, and they need to stay on the floor until the filibuster is broken. i know joe manchin has talked about possibly supporting the talking filibuster. is this something that joe biden can get behind aggressively. >> white house aides have stressed president biden is not married to the filibuster despite being a creature of the senate. he's willing to have some sort of reform there. he hasn't come out and explicitly endorsed that yet, but we've been told by aides in early '22 we should expect to hear more from the president on issues of the filibuster. congresswoman, great to see you. i wanted to ask you about -- you outlined with passion, the flaws with the senate. but, of course, the house still has to work with them in order to get legislation put on the president's desk to be signed into law. on this now, the future of what is now known as build back better, whether this moves into smaller pieces to pass individually or perhaps build back better is revamped to joe
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manchin's liking, it would have to swing back to the house to get approval. how do you work with that? would you be willing, would you and the others in your caucus be willing to work with those kind of bills? how much more are you willing to compromise? >> well, you know, i think the first thing to say is that this idea that we're going to refit it to joe manchin's liking, the bill has already been retrofitted to joe manchin's liking. let's make that extremely clear. the climate ambitions have been reduced because of joe manchin. we have had, for example, the minimizing of medicare expansion. much of that is also thanks to joe biden -- much of that is thanks to joe manchin. and we need to really make it very clear that this bill, this framework was signed off by joe manchin. and so this is a joe manchin build back better act. and so this idea that we're
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going to go back to the table and give him the pen again for a bill that he has already -- has his ink all over makes very little sense. i think in terms of that road, we really need to take an assessment of that. because this has been -- being strung along has been the path this entire time. this entire year. and so there's that part aside. but i think also, you know, as an institution, it is important that the senate, i think, step up in its governing culture. and i know that may seem vague, but things that -- what, for example, joe and mika and i just discussed, is that there are certain reforms that can be made within the culture of the senate. and decisions that are made within the senate that can make it harder to do this. and to make the environment harder. it is not lost on me or i think
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many other members of congress that joe manchin had a conversation with the president 48 hours before his announcement. the senate adjourned on friday. and then he waited until everyone was on vacation to say no, i'm not going to vote for this. he waited until there was a moment of minimal pressure when he didn't have to go back into the senate, when all of this stuff was happening. this is a very calculated timing. and if the senate reconvenes, what that allows us to do, whether it's the senate reconvening early. i believe senator schumer just announced that they're going to at least have a special caucus. but when we reconvene and we say no, no, no, we're not going to let people play these games anymore because they are relying on norms of the old boys club, and we have to break those
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cultural norms that the senate is very entitled, very privileged and very protected. and say we are not going to allow that deference to membership just because of the self-importance of the institution. we need to govern, and we are going to actually have consequences, and the concern is that if there are no consequences to this kind of betrayal of working families across the country, of the president of the united states, of the party that one is a part of, then it encourages more egregious behavior like this which will make it impossible to govern. so this is not just about a tit for tat. it's not a petty thing. this is about our ability to hold together a caucus, because as was mentioned earlier, it is going to be harder for the president to come to the same folks that he asked their vote for for the bipartisan infrastructure bill where he
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promised that we will have build back better before the end of the year. that, that ship seems to have sailed. and it will be very difficult to go back to those same people and make a promise again when a that is -- such a huge word was broken. a lot of people took a risk in voting yes for that bipartisan infrastructure plan, because when you actually read the provisions, it is not -- it does not deliver all of the things. there are quite a few things that are troubling. but if we have passed build back better, for example, on climate, we can have the drawdown that we need. without it, we may have just passed -- given away the climate opportunity for a generation and we can't accept that. >> congresswoman, we may not be ideologically aligned on all points, but when you talk about the self-importance of the senate and senators, i think you speak for all current and former members of the house.
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some great insights. we thank you so much for being with us. >> democratic congresswoman. >> exciting times ahead. >> alexandria ocasio-cortez, thank you very much. great to have you. >> thank you. thank you very much. >> thanks so much. jonathan, going back to the talking filibuster, i tracked in my notes, joe manchin, in fact, has said he supports the talking filibuster and will support the talking filibuster. that will be an interesting step forward. also he's -- again, he did the handshake deal on the $1.75 trillion. he never agreed to the specifics of the bills. they were still working through it. i just, again, the white house fired quite a few rhetorical bombs his way yesterday, but i'm just as david ignatius said
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earlier, in washington, it ain't over until it's over, and even then, it's not over. >> i think that's right. this was not the final chapter of this negotiation. certainly a setback. and we saw the white house's anger yesterday very clear. that they view this. this was a -- they are viewing it in personal terms. we discussed it earlier. they feel like the joe manchin went back on his word to the president of the united states. the congresswoman, we heard her say that. that's a popular septemberment right -- sentiment in the democratic party. and majority leader schumer calling for a vote in the next couple weeks in build back better saying the senators have to put up their hand in person as well, not just on tv. look, everyone is going to be away for a couple weeks here. i think we have a cooling off period. there will be negotiation. people don't think this is the
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final chapter. they're not thaep, but whether it's in smaller portions or revised, build back better act, they still think at the end of the day, manchin is not going to be -- want to be a caucus of law and they don't believe he would change parties because he would leave influence if he were to do so. they think there could be a deal to be done. they just hoped it would be sooner than later. and that may no longer be the case. >> all right. let's bring in writer for new york magazine, jonathan chat into the conversation. jonathan, t great to have you this morning. >> jonathan -- >> thank you. >> your column yesterday was incredibly important, but you did ask the question i asked myself, which is what in the world in the land of -- did the biden white house attack manchin as hard as they did, even though they had every right to be upset. >> that seems like a strange
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choice. the only option for them is to come to terms with joe manchin. i don't see how lashing out at him is going to accomplish that. i also think if they can get back to where they were last week, there may be a real path here. the most important fact that i think has come out in the last 24 hours is that joe manchin submitted an offer to the white house last week. it was $1.75 trillion. we don't know what was in the offer, but i'd like to find out. >> and, of course, manchin had talked about handshake with the president of the united states where the president was at 2 trillion. manchin was at 1.5. both of them said they couldn't move. he went to the white house, shook his hand said man to man, we looked each other in the eye and agreed on $1.75 trillion bill. i think your point is i think the most germane right now. what was in that $1.75 trillion bill, and is that something that joe biden could agree with?
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>> you know, i would hope so. i think one of the factors that a lot of people on the left aren't quite taking into account is that on the main question where manchin is objecting to the bill, i think he's not only right, but he's pushing it substantively to the left. now, i don't agree with what manchin is trying to do. he's trying to limit the climate spending and the whole time he's objected to a lot of the funding mechanisms of taxing the wealthy that have shrunk this bill. what he's objecting to right now is this gimmick they're trying of keeping most of the programs in there but phasing them in and phasing them out in timing the hopes they'll be extended. i think those hopes are terribly misplaced. they're just wasting their money on a lot of programs that are going to disappear. and if they listen to manchin and have fewer programs, they'll have more permanent spending programs that are going to last permanently at the end of the day. so they really should be coming to terms with manchin.
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manchin is trying to make this a better bill on his demand. i think there should be grounds for agreement there. >> what i haven't understand about democrats in congress but also the news media, manchin will say something publicly. it will be reported. and then manchin will say something three months later and everybody runs around with their hair on fire. first was the $1.5 trillion agreement. people were shocked. manchin said i've got the piece of paper. i talked to chuck. i got him to sign a document. if you go back and look at i think it was politico, they reported on it. it's the same thing with -- you're saying tailor the bill. get rid of the budget gimmicks. manchin has been talking nonstop. the legislative process is long. the parliamentarian has got to look at it. we're changing the tax code. we're changing environmental regulations. this is going to take a long
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time. and i don't know. i just -- i don't think -- again, i'm not giving manchin a free pass on anything. but so much of what he's complaining about and so much you're writing about, he's been broadcasting to anybody who would listen to him for months. >> yeah. but i mean, i think you also have to blame manchin a little bit. because he doesn't always communicate exactly what he's trying to do. if you listen to what he said at points he was just saying this is over. the bill is done. but other times he was saying well, i just have problems x, y, and z with the specifics of it. he's incoherent, and it's hard to tell sometimes if it's deliberate. you know? like a dwight eisenhower who is strategically couching his position in ambiguity to give himself room to compromise, or if he really can't make up his mind whabt he really wants. >> what should democrats do
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next? >> number one, find out what was in the offer to manchin. can you work with that? i mean, my guess is it was better than nothing. i mean, it couldn't have been so terrible that you'd rather have nothing than whatever 1 $.75 trillion he was willing to spend. right? that would be step one. i would say maybe step one before that is to stop saying nasty things about joe manchin and try to get back to the table. i also think they've got to realize that manchin in some ways was actually trying to help them. now, again, the climate stuff was the most disturbing part of what he said yesterday. it sounded in the statement he put on yesterday that he was going back on the climate change he 'grewed on with his colleagues. s that disturbing and renegotiate things. on the point of viewer programs that are permanent, he's right. he's trying to save you. make a deal on those terms. >> there you go.
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jonathan, thank you very much for coming on this morning. and i wonder what was in that $1.75 trillion. that's a good question. find out. >> yep. >> still ahead on "morning joe," as the house select committee investigating january 6th ramps up its probe, former president trump is said to be getting increasingly agitated. is the committee heading toward an incriminating conclusion? we'll have new reporting on that. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.
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as i say in chapter 21 of in trump time, you're the guy who had the green bay packers strategy to go up to capitol hill. pence is the quarterback. we had 100 people working on the green bay team as linemen,
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halfbacks and fullbacks pulling guards who were going to make sure that we remanded the rights bag to the battle ground states for a couple weeks so we could get to the bottom of that. >> my god. just says it out loud. former white house trade adviser peter navarro last month describing steve bannon as a hero of january 6th, because he had a plan to stop the certification of the result of the 2020 election. we had 100 people working on it, he says. joining us now, congressional reporter for "the guardian" who has been reporting extensively on the select committee investigating the january 6th attack on the capitol. his latest is entitled "why trump appears deeply unnerved as capitol attack investigation closes in". and hugo, you reveal how unconfidentable it is for the former -- uncomfortable it is
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for the president to be unable to influence a federal investigation when he's no longer in the white house. what did you find out? what specifically is unnerving him? and we should add in the added dimension of a very long sentence for one of the january 6th attackers going down. >> what i think the picture that emerges from talking to his former and current aides, either in mar-a-lago and washington is that he feels unward, and he really is finding difficulty with the fact that he doesn't have the power to influence the course of this investigation. if you look at the kind of things he's complaining about that we discussed in the story, he's not happy that the house minority leader didn't put any of his allies on the panel to defend him. this is one of his favorite refrains. he's also upset with people like jeffrey clark because they've been invoking their fifth amendment protection for self-incrimination or against
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it, and he thinks this makes them look weak and he thinks it makes him look complicit in a crime. he's worried it might bounce back and he might get a criminal referral. it's all about him and the optics. the one thing he did like was bannon saying i'm not going to cooperate with the committee at all. he thought that was a strong image in his eye. the bottom line is he's no longer president, and the trouble is he can't influence his investigation in the way that he might have done with the russian or special counsel investigation, and i think that really weighs on him. >> so do you think it's the criminal -- the potential of a criminal referral that unmoores him, or in my opinion, just knowing him, what unmoores him is bad press, looking bad, looking weak or people around him making him look weak. i just don't believe donald trump ever believes he's going to be held accountable in any
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way. you are reporting on this and we're watching it play out. is there any accountability at the end of the line for donald trump. any potential accountability. possibility of it. >> he hates the bad press and he's been telling press he hates the fact that meadows has turned over so much damaging information to the select committee on top of what he put in his new book, the unflattering details about trump and his bout of covid. but i do think there is there is an instance here where trump is a little bit worried about his criminal exposure, and he has said this to aides. and this has been really significant. i thought this was important. because in the way that he thought maybe you know, i don't have exposure in the russia inquiry because i never met with kislyak or russians during the campaign, he knows he was involved in the rally before the
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attack, and that implicates him. and i think he does worry about that. and he also worries about the national archives case. this is coming to a swift end soon, and if all the materials he's trying to claim executive privilege over get released to the select committee, this really worries him. i think there's a little bit of both. but in a new development with this committee, he's worried about the criminal -- >> i know this last question is better for our next guest, but i'll put it out there for you. you named a couple levels in which he may be exposed. we have this reporting about the florida man, robert palmer, who was sentenced to more than five years in prison on friday. the longest sentence among the 150 rioters who have pleaded guilty for their role in the attack. i want to know on any of these tracks that trump faces exposure, is there any potential true accountability like what these folks are facing? >> potentially. i think so. and i think so because i've
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talked to members on the committee and professional staff on the committee, and there are several ways it could go. i think one member on the committee joked to me that maybe they would just subpoena trump and when he refuses to show up, maybe he'll be held in contempt, and that would be the extent of it. i think the committee has unearthed a whole dearth of evidence that implications members of congress. if you talk to professional staff on the committee, they see a scope for something like obstruction of an official proceeding. liz cheney said this repeatedly and jamie raskin. they are focussed on if there's a criminal element. and i think the members are attuned that if there is a criminal element, they want to hold them accountable. >> wow. congressional reporter for "the guardian". thank you very much. i want to get more details on that story i was just talking about, that longest sentence. prosecutors said robert palmer threw a wooden plank at the police and picked up a fire
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extinguisher and sprayed the contents at line of officers, throwing the canister at them after it was empty. he threw the extinguisher at them a second time. and assaulted another group of officers with a metal pole. throwing it like a spear before an officer shot him in the stomach with a rubber bullet. none of the officers were hurt according to court documents. palmer told the district judge he was, quote, very ashamed that he was part of the riot. but the judge agreed with prosecutors who said palmer showed a lack a remorse. after he pleaded guilty in october in a social media posting that said he acted in self-defense. he admitted on friday that claim was false. in imposing these 63-month sentence, the judge said, it has to be made clear that trying to violently overthrow the government and assaulting law
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enforcement officers in that effort is going to be met with absolutely certain punishment. previously the longest sentence imposed was 41 months. let's bring in the state attorney for palm beach. we see these sentences. the one i just read especially long for the man who was accused. the video showed the evidence, and then his followup on social media certainly didn't help. i ask you, what accountability does president trump face if he is found completely responsible for the attack on the capitol and how possible is it that he will be found responsible? >> good morning, mika. well, there is a predicate for the department of justice to open up an investigation for the serious crimes of seditious conspiracy and the obstruction of an official proceeding. both of them could get a defendant up to 20 years in
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federal prison. but the doj doesn't seem to have the stomach for this fight yet. they don't seem to have opened up any investigations on the leaders of january 6th. that's a problem. for seditious conspiracy, that's a tougher charge to prove. you have to show that two or more people had an agreement to forcefully shut down the certification of the vote. it has not been charged yet when it comes to january 6th, but obstruction of an official proceeding has. that has been charged against many of the rioters. and again, that would get them up to 20 years. and a trump-appointed judge recently came out with an important ruling that said that that statute would be appropriate for january 6th rioters. that's why liz cheney took to the committee on the january 6th committee and said publicly that maybe donald trump is liable under that statute. and the reason why she said that was because you have all these people who pled guilty already. you have the statute now applying to january 6th, and it
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could apply to donald trump, but this ultimately comes down to the department of justice, because members of congress like liz cheney do not have the power to file criminal charges. the doj does, but merrick garland doesn't seem to want to engage in this. and if you don't charge the leaders of january 6th, then january 6th was just a dress rehearsal. >> well, yeah, but i'm curious, is it merrick garland's just choice randomly whether or not to look at the president and steve bannon and mark meadows and those around the president who were helping plan something, especially steve bannon, and you just heard peter navarro talking about the warriors. is it just up to merrick garland to decide whether he feels like it when there's all this precedent playing out for all the people who i think are the weaker in a sense their own version of cult victims to the
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person at the top who was running the show? >> yeah. well, it would be unprecedented to charge a former president. and you have an attorney general and the buck stops there. >> so? >> well, i think you go where the evidence leads. just because it's unprecedented doesn't mean you don't open up an investigation and go from there. you have an attorney who is a decent man with great integrity, but he may not be made for this moment. he comes from the world of the judiciary, and the world of the judiciary wants to show they're even handed. the last thing they want to be accused of is being political. you need someone who is fearless and is not going to keep fighting the last war. we are in different times now. and yeah, you need to hold responsible those who started this whole january 6th, put those events in motion. what we're finding from the january 6th committee was that this wasn't just a spontaneous act on that day but a culmination of a plan to overthrow the legitimate government of the united states.
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and that's why the judge who sentenced robert palmer to a record sentence of 63 months has said in open court the country is watching and there needs to be consequences for those who attempted the forceful overthrow of our government. and so yes, the country is watching. and ultimately, the buck stops with merrick garland. >> i hope precedence isn't his driving force. i mean, what's unprecedented is to have a president who lets hundreds of thousands of people die of a virus that he could have stopped but didn't want to admit was happening on his watch. what's unprecedented is this. a president who leads and galvanizes a violent attack on our process and threatens the lives of our lawmakers. it's just -- yes, this is unprecedented. and it needs unprecedented action. state attorney for palm beach county, thank you very much. coming up, turner classic
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movies refuses to air "miracle on 34th street" for outdated depictions of hope and joy. not true, but "the onion" has been putting out satirical headlines like this for years and we're marking their anniversary next on "morning joe." ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ experience the power of sanctuary at the lincoln wish list event.
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♪♪ president obama announced today he will drastically scale back his agenda for america after a visit to a denny's restaurant in manassas, virginia, caused him to, quote, completely reconsider what our nation is capable of achieving. this afternoon, the president said, what i saw at denny's made
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me realize how much i've overestimated the american people. we have to stop eating six sausages and a pound of syrup with eggs and stop leaving the house in sweatpants. >> wow. >> the onion has been putting its spin on politics, and the publication is celebrating its 25th anniversary. joining us now, editor in chief at the onion, chad nackers. >> what a dumb quarter century it's been, to borrow from your book, "our dumb century." i'm curious, i heard from comedians, i heard tray parker and others saying, donald trump was actually very hard to make fun of in satire because he is bizarre. are you finding joe biden an easier target? >>. >> well, i'd like to fact check
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you guys. we've been on the internet for 125 years. >> oh, right. >> got it. here we go. you know, as long as their checks clear, we will cover any president. joe biden's checks have been coming in, so we have been covering him. >> so tell me who -- we have doctors concerned as hairline fracture in biden's foot spreads through entire skeleton. quite a few joe bidens. how often do you guys come up with headlines, do you come up with stories that you're thinking are hilarious and everybody is laughing at, but somebody around the table goes, too soon, way too soon? >> i mean, it's news. you can never be too soon. you should probably get it out yesterday. >> jonathan lemire is with us and has a question. jonathan? >> chad, congrats on the anniversary. my friends and i certainly do send around the onion links on
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text message. white house warns supply chain shortages could lead americans to discover the true meaning of christmas, the latest one. i want to ask how the events of the last couple of years, the pandemic and all the darkness associated with it, has that influenced what you do at all? are there certain things you feel like you should lean into more heavily? we know you don't shy away from the big moments of the day. your 9/11 head loin is one of your most famous. talk about how this challenge would, i assume you're all working from home and not in a writers room, influence what you do? >> it's been a dark, lonely time, where we're sitting in front of our computers. that looks more like an al qaeda meeting than an onion writers meeting. but, yeah, it's been a challenging time. you know, there's just -- coronavirus has, like, been a very difficult thing to, you
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know, cover. but, you know, we kind of lean into that and kind of expose what's really going on and have just done, like, thousands of stories on it at this point. >> you know, you also -- after an attack at a school, you all had an especially poignant headline about gun violence. no way to prevent this, says only nation where this regularly happens. it was one of those headlines, less for laughs and more for impact. i remember this one cut through, in particular. >> yeah. and we've reused this one many times. we've just changed the location and the details. i think it's highly effective, in that this same thing keeps happening. so this one headline really does
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cover what's going on in the world or in america. >> yeah. and the question that every journalist asks themselves when they wake up in the morning, is what's next for the onion? >> that's what i dread every morning. you don't really want to look at the news and see what we're going to be covering today. >> yeah. all right. editor-in-chief of "the onion," chad nackers. congratulations. >> thank you. >> jonathan lemire, we have gone over a lot today. a lot to talk about. i'm curious, as the week begins, this christmas week, where are we? where do you think we're going to go? >> well, we're waiting for the "onion" headline on joe manchin, i think is what we're all waiting to do right now. certainly today, we will -- there's a couple events to track. we will hear from the white house press secretary jen psaki briefing. first time we'll hear from her since the scathing statement.
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see where the relationship goes from here. obviously, our focus today has, of course, been on the at least temporary derailment of the build back better act. cases are rising. alarm bells are going off in the white house. we'll hear from the president tomorrow. he will unveil a new strategy to battle this new variant, which we will see if perhaps more restrictions are put in place. certainly, we know it will include a prodding to get vaccinated and boostered, since they do seem to provide real prosection against this new variant. >> well, we'll be watching it all. we'll see you here tomorrow morning. up next, the covid-19 surge. health officials predict the omicron variant will bring a record number of cases and will put more people in the hospital than ever before. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage in 90 seconds. this is claim forgiveness... [echoing] claim forgiveness-ness, your home premium won't go up just because of this. (woman) wow, that's something. (burke) you get a whole lot of something with farmers policy perks.
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hey there. i'm stephanie ruhle, live at msnbc headquarters here in new york city. it's monday, december 20th. it is time for the facts. we have a lot to get to, so let's get smarter. this morning, the covid surge is showing no sign of slowing down. nationwide, hospitalizations are now up 26% over the last three weeks. cases are up nearly 70%. and this comes just as we are starting one of the busiest travel weeks