tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC December 27, 2021 5:00pm-6:00pm PST
do you get technologically advanced life? i think that is super rare. so don't look for aliens falling out of cadillac space ships. it is unlikely to occur. micro organisms are probably within our own solar system. >> well i continue to look for intelligent life right here on earth. >> you and me both. >> we will see what webb telescope produces. you'll have to come back so we can talk about it. thank you so much, hakeem oluseyi. i will see you soon. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in" don't panic but brace for impact. family gatherings, record holiday travel, even movie attendance booms as covid cases spike across the country. what to expect for the final week of 2021. plus trump goes all in on the vaccine for now but is it too little too late for the antivax monster he created if
is. >> this is an emergency christmas day warning to president trump. you are either completely ignorant about the so-called vaccine gene therapy that you helped ram through with operation warp speed, or you are one of the most evil men who has ever lived. >> that violent voice mail messages left for a u.s. congress woman, obscene slogans, how the behavior of the modern republican has sunk so low. desmond tutu, remembering a true man of peace this holiday season. "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. i hope you had a good holiday weekend. as we are about to enter the third calendar year of the once in a century pandemic a lot is clear and a few things remain unclear. right now this is what both sides of the covid story look like in america, 21 months into this. this is a chart showing the
weekly rate of cases, just cases of covid in new york city, by vaccination status. omicron is making itself known in the last two weeks. the purple line at the top is folks unvaccinated. the orange is vaccinated. if you are unvaccinated you have a very good chance of getting covid right now. if you are vaccinated you are also still ek posed to be sure. i can tell you anecdotally. i think it has gotten a little lost as we've covered breakthrough cases there is still a very, very sizable difference in risk and exposure in just transmission. it is particularly true of serious illness. covid specifically the omicron variant is ripping through the northeast right now. look at those charts. like it did when it first arrived in the kourn. we don't have apples to apples comparisons because we didn't have the testing infrastructure back then. these are charts of cases by state. the red line being the state
number straight up hockey stick stuff. new york, maryland, new jersey. puerto rico one of the most vaccinated places in the u.s. hospitalations in orange, deaths in gray are also ticking up a tad. but those lines are nothing like the red case lines and that is because for people who are vaccinated and boosted it is essentially a cold. maybe a very bad cold maybe something like the flu which can be serious and awful and knock people out for a period of time. it is true in the data and also anecdotally. a lot of people i know who have gotten it the last few weeks have described it that way. one thing that gets clearer and clearer, and this is real world data not stuff in a lab, just out there in the world the efficacy of the vaccines in preventing serious illness. i mean, a remarkable, remarkable, game changing tool in battling this virus. but despite that the u.s. in green continues to trail other developed countries in
vaccinating its people even though we jumped out to a big head start. the u.s. behind china, uk, israel, canada, the entirety of the european union. there are a bunch of reasons for that but a huge part of it has been the fact that in a breathtaking act of reckless disregard for human life, the major messengers of the american right have pushed antivaccine messages to people, they just made a decision to do that, and it has cost a lot of people their health and their lives. of course the single biggest voice on the american right has been ex-president donald trump who during his presidency pushed fake covid treatments like the antimalaria drug hydroxychloroquine or floating the idea of injecting bleach inside the body. he's also been not really very full throated in his support for vaccines. he got vaccinated. he hasn't been running around doing a lot of antivax theories. he seemed to make an interesting change in his rhetoric. last week on a speaking tour
with disgraced former fox news in answer to a trivia question bill o'reilly trump touted the vaccine's efficacy and said he got the booster. >> we did something that was historic. we saved tens of millions of lives worldwide. we together. all of us. not me. we. we got a vaccine done, three vaccines done and tremendous therapeutics like regeneron and other things that have saved a lot of lives. take credit for it. it is great. what we've done is historic. don't let them take it away. don't take it away from ourselves. you're playing right into their hands when you sort of like oh, the vaccine. if you don't want to take it you shouldn't be forced to take it. no mandates. but take credit because we saved tens of millions of lives. >> both the president and i are vaxed. did you get the booster? >> yes >> i got it, too. okay. >> oh, don't, don't. no. that's all right. a very tiny group over there.
>> you hear the people. they cheer only when he says you shouldn't be forced to take it. then they heckle when he says he got the booster. trump says, well there is a tiny number. this is a guy who got vaccinated in the white house in secret. so this is a change. a in theable one. my personal theory is donald trump is going to run for president again and whatever you say about the guy he is fairly canny politically and he understands numbers. i mean big ones at least. you can be antimandate but you really cannot be antivax in a country where 85% of adults have gotten at least one dose. it is hard to run as an antivax nut even if that is a big part of what the maga group wants. but it is not sitting well with the core trump base. far right antivaxer candace owens argued trump is pro vax because he is too old to find the obscure antivax sites on the
internet. an amazing argument. the conspiracy theorist alex jones issued a far harsher condemnation. >> this is an emergency christmas day warning to president trump. you are either completely ignorant about the so-called vaccine gene therapy that you helped ram through with operation warp speed or you're one of the most evil men who has ever lived to push this toxic poison on the public. >> here's the thing. sure. some of the base is angry. but if anyone changes their mind because of the vaccine -- about the vaccine because of donald trump it is a good thing for them and all of us even if it is a bit late. last week president biden praised trump for announcing he got the booster and his administration for rolling out the vaccine. today dr. fauci said he was grad to see trump talking to the benefits of vaccination but warned it might be too little too late >> i was stunned by the fact that he's doing that and he is getting booed in some places for doing that, which means that
poisoning the well early on about either not being enthusiastic or outright not pushing vaccines and discouraging vaccines now has a lingering effect and even when you come out and say go get vaccinated some of the people that have been following his every word and what he does are now pushing back and not listening. >> but for those who have been vaccinated, the vast majority of adults, and those of us who have also been boosted which is a significant and growing minority, we've all reached this very weird what you might call muddling through period of the pandemic. i mean, the crazy transmission of omicron really is unlike anything we've seen. it doesn't feel like a terrifying personal risk like it did last winter before we had the vaccines. of course i was thinking for myself here and people that i love. there are many people who are immuno compromised, otherwise vulnerable to severe illness. not to mention a lot of people who need care in hospitals that either are or are going to be
squeezed and a lot of people who work in those hospitals basically at their wits' end. on top of that dealing with a disease this contagious and you're not doing something dramatic like locking everyone down, closing everything, putting people in their houses, it is just going to disrupt a lot of every day life. we're seeing that in broadway shows being canceled because the cast, the crew all come down with omicron. nfl and nba rosters just decimated by covid. tons of players being signed and bringing guys out of retirement. thousands of flights are canceled. the flights are canceled because just too many airline crews are getting sick. restaurants and schools across the country are closing again not as a public health measure but simply because there aren't enough healthy workers. transmissibility is so high, the numbers are so insane in some ways it feels like a massive improvement over the darkest davis the pandemic but it is very hard to call it normal. that is in some ways the biggest challenge for the biden administration in this coming year i think specifically both
substantively and politically. it is also the biggest challenge for us as american society, civil society. our institutions. what is on the other side here is on a lot of people's minds this holiday season. andy slavitt served as white house senior adviser for the covid response in the biden administration working to get as many people vaccinated as possible. he is the author of "preventible" the inside story of the u.s. coronavirus response being doomed. let's just start on the vaccination data. it continues to be a kind of informational bed rock here for all of this. here is the new york data. hospitalization data. that we're seeing right now. you know, we're just seeing a huge difference between the hospitalizations for folks that are unvaccinated and vaccinated. you can see that enormous spike there in folks who are unvaccinated. that's like per capita versus vaccinated. we see this play out all over the place. the sort of immunity wall of
vaccination against severe illness seems to be holding in the latest wave. is that your feeling so far as well? >> without question. you know, this time around if you're going to get even a case of covid and you're vaccinated, you are very unlikely to have a case that you wind up in the hospital. of course there are other reasons not to want to have covid including missing work, not seeing your family, risk getting covid. it is not a good thing. your protection level if vaccinated is quite high against something serious. as you say, if you are unvaccinated, it is a completely different story. you talk to most people in hospitals today and they say most of the patients they see are entirely unvaccinated. >> so you've got the vaccination still building this wall but at the same time i think the biden administration understandably and correctly, they saw their job and you were there, get as
many shots in arms as possible. there was this period where it ramped up and ramped up and then hit this demand hump and cultural and political hump and slowly but surely chipped away. we are still below the european union, below canada and israel. what it means is there are still tens of millions of people unvaccinated and there is going to be millions more cases this winter. it is like losing 1600 people a day. it still feels like an unacceptable equilibrium and short of forceable vaccination it is not clear what you do. >> well, look. we have, despite what, when people use the words mandate we have only once in our history ever had an actual requirement for vaccine and that was a very severe measles outbreak in philadelphia a couple decades ago. but what you can do is say, look. if you want to be around other people that don't have the choice to be vaccinated or maybe they have the choice but they're immuno compromised, then you should be required to be
vaccinated and boosted yourself. that is i think what most societies find to be a reasonable answer. if you're going to go to work or to the hospital or to your favorite bar or crowd or restaurant then it is okay to say, hey, show us you are not contagious or much less likely to be. we see that as this happens across the u.s. military, employers around the country upwards of 90% plus of people getting vaccinated, there is still a small minority of people who don't want to. that is their right. there are other things they can be doing. those kinds of actions which i think the supreme court is going to look at very shortly, are the kinds of things that i think help our society move along, reduce the death toll, and more importantly not just reduce the number of people dying but allow people who are living to live an active life where they can go to work, go to school, see their family. >> so there was news today from the cdc of reducing the sort of isolation period for people that
are positive and, yet, asymptomatic. from ten days to five. this i think applies to the second question, which is, okay. let's say you're dealing in a place where everyone is vaccinated. you still have a lot of omicron going around. it is insanely contagious and you still get disruption. everyone in the restaurant got sick. everyone in the school classroom got sick. the pilots all got sick. this seems like a way of attempting to deal partly with that based on more recent data we have. do you think it's a good decision? do you think it is informed by the research we have as opposed to a desire to reduce disruption? >> well, look. they are always playing the odds and always i think open to criticism for being too slow or too fast. what they are doing here is saying, if you are after five days no longer symptomatic, and by the way, if you can find one, strongly recommend taking an antigen test, stay at home test, if you are negative very low
likelihood that you're going to be contagious. so telling 90% of people to stay home for the next five days when they're not contagious has a real cost to it. but these are never absolutes. these recommendations are going to get criticism from both sides because you're going to have some people that are still contagious and day six or day seven who are asymptomatic. i think the number will be a couple percent. and so in the main i think they're smart to say let's use the data and lean into this. let's show people how to not be overly conservative and make people isolate for far longer than most of them need to. >> all right. andy slavitt, thank you so much for joining us tonight. >> good to be here. over the past four years we've seen an unprecedented rise in threats made against lawmakers with capitol police expecting 2021 to end with another historic high. tonight i'll talk to a congressman on the receiving end of those threats for over two
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her vote for his impeachment and implied her husband the late congressman was looking up from hell. that set off the fire hose of hatred from trump supporters who continued to send her several threats each week. yesterday congresswoman dingell shared a recording of one of those threatening messages for the first time, this is from august of 2021. the voice mail is extremely graphic and disturbing so imagine being on the receiving end of these types of threats on a regular basis. >> you damn old sen aisle -- you're as old and ugly as biden. you ought to get the -- off the planet you -- foul -- they ought to -- try you for treason. you and every one of your scum bag -- friend. i hope your family dies in front of you. pray to god if you got any children they die in your face. >> congresswoman debbie dingell democrat of michigan on the receiving end of that joins me now. first of all i am sorry someone
did that. and i wonder why you decided to share it. >> well, chris, actually to put this in context i was doing a segment with my republican colleague fred upton about civility and trying to get people to take a deep breath. cnn asked my staff for some of the messages we had been receiving and that was one of many that was played yesterday. fred made a decision a month ago to play a message he had received. the response today has been interesting. a lot of people have reached out and been very supportive and as we all know it can also energize other people. but i want people to take a deep breath. i want people to think about what we are saying to each other. and really start to worry about what's happening in our communities because it is not
just me. i don't want to normalize this but i have become used to it. i worry about my staff. this is happening to people that are on school boards, city councils, trying to help their communities. it is not okay. >> i mean, you've been in politics for a while obviously, your late husband one of the longest serving members of the u.s. house of representatives, a legend of course. and you, yourself, have served in that seat for many years. you've been around the culture of politics. and i think sometimes we can fall prey to a kind of presentism where everything in this moment seems worse than it's ever been or unprecedented. i am curious from your perspective is there something new, distinct, and worse now than 20, 30, 40 years ago? >> yes, i think there is. interestingly, in the '90s when i did my masters thesis on civility in the congress, and we have gone through periods
throughout history but not with the hatred that you see right now or the venom or the fear quite frankly that you see. that is why i hope people will take a deep breath and understand what we're doing to each other. as i say, we're finding this in our communities. i was brought up to respect each other and i do remember people could have very strong disagreements on policy, but they treated each other with respect. they respected the individual and would disagree on the policy. not this kind of venom that we are seeing people treat each other the way, and never have you seen some of the members that are treating each other the way that they are on the house floor. it worries me. it greatly worries me. >> how much of this is a product of trump and people trying to be
like him? i mean, i think he is someone that thrives off negative attention. obviously he is someone who sort of enjoys insulting people. i think a lot of people that like him enjoy the thrill, the sort of transgressive thrill of watching that happen. there are members of congress now sort of doing an imitation of that. how much is that a symptom and how much is that a cause do you think? >> i fear that it is a symptom or i think we're going through really hard times. we were just talking about covid again. it's been two years of people being isolated, people not having that human connection with each other. people have been worried about the economy. you know, look. there was a time when i agreed with donald trump on trade and told people that he could become president and was right as you'll recall. but i think that this anxiety, this fear, this anger that we are seeing in so many communities is what we do need to fear. we have seen it happen at
different times of history in the world and it's something we all need to be aware of and be conscious of. it is dividing us. it is attacking the fundamental roots of our democracy. we have to respect each other. united we stan divided we fall. we got to think about those words. >> all right. congresswoman debbie dingell i hope you had a great holiday and get a little time away for new year's as well. thanks a lot. >> thank you, chris. still to come, remembering the larger than life human rights champion, archbishop desmond tutu, someone who witnessed the power of his work first hand. we'll be right back. k.
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leading advocate for reconciliation, the fight for freedom and equality, but not a pacifist. he was awarded a noeb peace prize for his efforts in 1984. he spoke about what the award meant for the rights around the world. >> a new hope has been kindled in the breast of millions who are voiceless, oppressed, dispossessed, tortured by the powerful tyrants, lacking elementary human rights. how wonderful, how appropriate that this award is made today, december 10th, human rights day. it says more eloquently than anything else that this is god's world and he is in charge. that our cause is a just cause. that we will attain human rights in south africa and everywhere in the world. we shall be free in south africa and everywhere in the world.
>> born in 1931 to a poor family tutu joined the ministry as a way to serve his community and rose to the highest ranks becoming the first black archbishop of cape town and used his pulpit to speak out against injustice. in announcing his death the south african president held the archbishop as, quote, a patriot without equal, a leader of principle and prague mattism who gave meaning to the bubble call insight that faith without works is dead. the former ambassador to south africa knew desmond tutu as a friend and mentor and he joins me now. patrick, i am so glad you made time to talk to us tonight. obviously the man was an absolute legend. a sort of moral force, an icon. you actually knew him and got to see up close what he was like and what his influence on south africa and the world was like. >> chris, thank you for having me on and for pushing this legacy forward.
i think sometimes we have a poor grasp of history and it is extraordinary to appreciate this all happened in our life times. you just showed a photograph of archbishop tutu standing in new york in front of new york city's city hall with a congressman. i was at that rally in 1985. i was 18, 19 years old. that is when archbishop tutu came to the u.s. to call on us to move beyond our policy of constructive engagement with the apartheid regime and told all of us especially our president reagan to be neutral meant to be on the side of the oppressors. it was a powerful history lesson then and one that is still resonant today. >> one thing that is striking about the trajectory of desmond tutu's life is that he is a kind of moral seer, obviously a man of god, a member of the clergy, but mandela was an organizer. he was a revolutionary. he was a politician. he had a lot to make a lot of
political calculations as he navigated the way through apartheid into the new south africa. tutu was not really a politician although he was obviously incredibly politically minded and was a kind of clear, moral force throughout it at several key moments in the trajectory from apartheid to the aftermath to present day south africa. >> what an incredible journey he was on. he was in his core inherently a diplomat. he was an ambassador for south africa in the period of apartheid. he showed the entire world the better face of that nation. he enabled all of us to imagine what a reconciled future could look like. then once we established true participatory democracy in south africa in 1994 he was asked to lead the truth and reconciliation commission which really pioneered restorative justice around the world. it is poorly understood today. but as you said, this is somebody who had a clarity,
moral clarity, clarity of purpose. not only did he believe in reconciliation in south africa but went on gloriously to lead on fights of climate change, lead on fights for the rights of the lgbtq community, spoke out forcefully on behalf of palestinians and their plight and crusaded for them and powerfully never hesitated to speak truth to power. i remember when he came here to the united states in 2003 and many of us joined him at the rally at the united nations when he said the united states was morally wrong to invade iraq. extraordinary figure, extraordinary courage. i dare say not only will his kind not come again but as i think of the conversation you just had with congresswoman dingell and the lack of civility we're seeing in our politics, there is a usefulness to his extraordinary service and the lessons he gave us that should carry forward in a time when we have a poverty of moral
imagination in our politics. >> when you say about him being unflinching in speaking truth to power it applied to the anc which goes from revolutionary movement for liberation and multi racial democracy to the ruling party and he was extremely forth right about his critiques of inequality and corruption and went after the president and in the context of having struggled with people, to overthrow this regime, this sense of kind of, you don't want to betray your comrades and to have the kind of moral courage to just say the truth as you see it when people are in power i always found incredible. >> i had a conversation about those critiques with archbishop tutu when i became u.s. ambassador to south africa. of course he was really proud of what we had achieved in the u.s. with the election of barack obama but i remember archbishop tutu holding up his own example and he said just as i had to
turn against those who i had been in the trenches with when i believed they betrayed democracy if at any point, young man, he said to me, you feel as if your party, your colleagues are betraying your principles you have to fine a way to speak out against that as well. so he never hesitated to bring that kind of strength, truth, and real courage of his conviction. courage is an important word to use about archbishop tutu. this is someone who not only spoke out forcefully but, chris, your viewers have to understand that he literally put his physical body in harm's way against the machinery of state violence when it was called for to protect the most vulnerable in his society. and he never lost that instinct. you're right. he spoke out against corruption but reminded all of us if we are fighting for justice, if we believe that climate justice is necessary and possible, if we believe in the rights of the
most marginalized, then we have to have the courage of those convictions and be willing to be unpopular. >> so wonderful to get your thoughts on this great man and his passing. thanks so much. appreciate it. >> thank you, chris. all right. we got lots more coming up. don't go away. we've been married 53 years. we love to walk on the beach. i have two daughters and then two granddaughters. i noticed that memories were not there like they were when i was much younger. since taking prevagen, my memory has gotten better and it's like the puzzle pieces have all been [click] put together. prevagen. healthier brain. better life.
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♪ ♪ now, get new lower auto rates with allstate. because better protection costs a whole lot less. you're in good hands with allstate. click or call for a lower auto rate today. throughout the 25 seasons of "the view" there has ban conservative voice on the panel often sparking debate with the more liberal cohorts. that is sort of a recipe. over the years the role has been filled by most recently megan mccain but since meghan mccain left the show early this year producers have struggled to find a conservative to take her place. the challenge is is finding someone who is not a denier of the 2020 election results, embraced the january 6 riots or
is seen as flirting with the fringe conspiracy theories. that kind of person doesn't really exist. as a former show staffer put it, quote, they are really looking for a unicorn. we have a professor of political science, and a former republican congressman from florida now the executive chairman of the save america movement working to create a new political party and we have the coauthor of "political playbook" where she reported the news about "the view's" struggle to find a republican. it is something we've encountered before. i don't want to, i'm not particularly interested in talking to people who say the election was stolen or that vaccines cause infertility. i like exchange having views with people but if you are looking for people who don't think those things and you want to talk to a conservative there is the whole pool of never trumpers but finding someone in the, who is not a never trumper but not on board with like
election conspiracy nonsense is a real thin intersection of sets. >> right. and i think "the view" rightly concerned about spreading misinformation. you don't want to spend the entire time fact checking your colleague or your co-host. >> yes. exactly. >> but they need -- people like to see the women disagree on the talk show hosts and they want different opinions. and the problem is a lot of these never trumpers can all agree with the other hosts that trump is horrible which is a common talking point on the show and i think you saw someone like anna navarro really suffer because of that. she is a regular fill-in and you can see her on the tv right now. she is not their first pick because she is seen as getting along too well with the other women, too chummy, and more importantly is never trump so it doesn't represent a big part of the republican electorate. most of them are pro trump. so i think they really have a struggle to find someone who can thread the needle between not
being a conspiracy theorist but also pro trump. >> there is a deeper issue here than the casting choices of "the view" producers in new york city. god bless them. which is about like just the nature of what the ideological lines are in the party right now. and to tara's point, you can't have someone on air who is you know actually an italian satellite was used to change the votes. you can't do that. but the odds of that are high. if you get a person who is very loved in maga world and therein lies the whole problem. >> that's right. chris, i think this whole issue reflects kind of the brand identity or the brand transformation already of the republican party. until about five to ten years ago the notion of being conservative and a republican was duplicative. they were conflated. that type of brand would work for this slot i suppose on "the view." i am the last person to be giving an opinion on a panelist
for "the view" but what you have identified is right which is today being a leading republican and if that is really the brand "the view" needs is a republican voice, well, that just means you're in the gas lighting and trolling and grievance and all of the maga talking points, which often can be false. and so, look. do they really want a conservative? do they want somebody that can talk about the nuances of an assault weapons ban and corporate tax cuts? no. they want a republican because that is how we identify within our culture but to your point and tara's, a republican today, you know, they have to be fact checked every 30 seconds. >> this gets to the point i am kind of obsessed with right now, which is, like, the weird way, the surreal way in which, quote-unquote normal and abnormal politics are sort of co-existing right now. normal politic is like inflation is too high and i don't like the incumbent party because inflation is too high. that's fine. that's just normal politics. people argue about that all the
time. all kinds of democratic societies. the other is the election was stolen. donald trump is 100% the president. or, you know, the vaccine is this vast conspiracy. and you want, to david's point, what they want is to have arguments about, like, the normal stuff without the abnormal stuff but it is a package deal. >> it is. you left out a key point which is january #of. so much of the republican talking points right now is january 6th never happened. you are making a tempest out of a tea pot, chris hayes every night when you talk about how dangerous january 6 was. millions of people, not just women pu millions of people watch "the view" every single day so those discussions are important because they are in a manner that is accessible to a lot of people working and not working who rely on them quite honestly for information. so, unfortunately, right now as tara's brilliant piece laid out, the republican party has been
coopted by so many individuals who believe in such far fetched, and i am going to use the word lies not just misspoken statements, where it is irresponsible for a show to have a particular type of republican brand on air. i don't know. are they going to have someone who says well i'm independent so i'll constantly play the devil's advocate and that will be the role of i would say a former republican who -- former republicans are somewhat sensible. we can have intellectual disagreements on policy. now we're having disagreements on facts and reality. and that is a dangerous position we've been in for quite sometime in our politics. >> there's also, tara, this, you know, obviously again, i'm going to sort of contextualize this. there is this guy that said let's go brandon to the president himself on a phone call doing some, you know, the president and jill biden are doing this thing and he of course becomes a kind of joe the
plumber kind of hero. and again i don't get too worked up about people in a free society telling their leaders to go eff off because that is kind of what free society comes down to. the thing that was so striking to me is as soon as he went on the steve bannon podcast one of the first things he said is i am a supporter of donald trump who should still be the president. it was 100% stolen from him. ding, ding. that is the key belief you aren't going to be able to escape. >> right. he really didn't seem to embrace that right away. he sort of played it that he was naive. he didn't know what brandon meant. he said he wasn't a trumper. his story keeps changing. you wouldn't make that kind of comment on the phone with the president on christmas eve if you didn't feel very strongly, you know, in support of donald trump. >> yes. >> i don't know. i find the whole story very hard to believe. the truth is now coming out.
>> it is part of the schtick we saw in the tea party too. we're just folks out at this rally with glenn beck. you are a conservative activist. it's fine. that is just what you are though. >> right. >> i want to talk, there's been some very good news about the economy. i want to talk to you guys about it so everyone stick around. we'll be right back. we hit the bike trails every weekend shinges doesn't care. i grow all my own vegetables shingles doesn't care. we've still got the best moves you've ever seen good for you, but shingles doesn't care.
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♪♪ okay. there's some good news on the biden economy i want to discuss. i want to bring back in christina greer, professor at forwardha m university. david jolly, former florida congressman and tara palmeri, co-author of politico's "playbook." this is on a theme that i've been thinking a lot about, about the u.s. economy. booming u.s. economy ripples world-wide. u.s. economic output is set to expand by more than 7% annualized in the final three months of the year, up from about 2% in the previous quarter, according to what is
publicized by the federal bank of atlanta. this speaks to something i think has not been appreciated. the u.s. covid response as a public health matter has been middling to poor, somewhere in there depending on when you are looking. the economic response in many ways, i mean between the c.a.r.e.s. act, the second c.a.r.e.s. act, the american rescue plan, has been pretty good and particularly compared to other countries, chrissy. the economy is actually doing quite well. people's perception of it is pretty bad, although when you ask them how they're doing personally an financially they say they're doing pretty well. i wonder when the delta closes in the new year, particularly if inflation comes down? >> chris, i think that's the question i'm struggling with because it is the framing of this. the perception that so many americans have, you know, this is purely anecdotally, but speaking to friends and
colleagues of mine who range the financial spectrum, all of them feel like joe biden needs to do more, whether it is covid response, whether it is with the economy or a combination of the two. when we go to the ballot box in november, we know that americans vote, political science literature said it time and time again, based on pocketbook issues. it is not just about how you feel personally. it is how you feel the economy in your sort of larger collective is doing. joe biden -- and i would say democrats at large, and this goes back to obama and even clinton, are very poor at contextualizing all of the work that they are doing. if we remember with barack obama literally saving the american economy from falling off the cliff, they named it something where all of these mechanisms where people actually got back to work and got money in their pockets, it was the america rediscover back to work act, something, something, no one knew it was the democratic party assisting them. i think we are in the situation
yet again where joe biden and his financial as visors are doing the work to lift us out of the chasm that donald trump and his party put us in, but the framing of it makes so many americans feel as though the biden administration is not doing enough and they may be doing okay, but their larger neighborhood and larger society isn't feeling the uplift. >> well, i think -- i mean, look, what is pretty clear is, you know, inflation has gone up quite high, i think for all sorts of structural reasons that don't have a ton to do with what joe biden has done or the democratic party has done. it has gone up across the world. i think it is a bigger problem than mass unemployment, frankly, but people don't like that. gas prices have started to come down. a column in "the new york times" that talked about reagan's first two years, he was coming in in the midst of flag station and things didn't really turn around in '81 or '82. inflation remained high, unemployment remained high, the recession was persistent.
the republicans were clocked in the midterm. the whole morning in america story doesn't come for a few years later, and i think so much of the politics in the nation depends on what happens next year, which is a really wide variety of possibilities. >> yeah. chris, you are right. look, inflation is a key behavioral indicator, if you will, for voters because all they know is things cost more. we're not very rational when as consumers when it comes to recognizing we have more spending power, more consumer power now that offsets the price increases. we just know things cost more and that upsets voters. >> right. >> i think what underlies all of this and inflation is contributing to is the feeling of instability which should not be a surprise. the world economy is coming off a historic shock. i think most voters know we sustain the economy through multiple rounds of stimulus, through fiscal policy that sustained the economy, and so even if we feel like, okay, things are okay, it is the what-if, what is next, and when
do we get our confidence back? when we get there, i think joe biden looks very good. >> yeah, that to me is the biggest question for everything right now, is that word "instability," tara. you know, that to me defines the political moment. it defines so much of the -- frankly, the aberrant behavior we see all over the place from people, from videos of people screaming at each other on planes to all of this kind of stuff. it has been a wildly disrupted 20 months, and the big question is, like, is 2022, does it feel more normal or more stable or more thriving or more protected from the sheer tumult of the last few years? i don't think anyone can answer that question, but i think it does determine a lot about the politics. >> right. i think a lot of people keep hearing that the stock market is over inflated and everyone is just waiting for it to drop at some point. you have the inflationary issues. then on top of that, you have senator joe manchin using the talking point, the fear of
inflation and economic fears to tank the president's major, you know, policy, agenda policy. i think that really sticks. people say, he is a democrat and he is worried that there's something happening right now, that this policy could tank the economy or cause rapid inflation. i think that really undermines the president's message that everything is all right and that, you know, the pocketbook issues are not as grave as we sense that they are. >> yeah, i mean let me just jump in to say that the white house argument that build back better would be -- would reduce inflation in the short term i think is pretty thin. there's maybe some medium to long term, but the argument that joe manchin is making is that it would be inflationary was completely bonkers in my mind. i don't think there's any impact one way or the other. most of that is going to matter based on covid, it is going to matter on international supply chain, it is going to matter on jay powell and what he does at the fed. all of this, it is a weird thing where there's a debate over inflation when that's not what
the bill is about, yet here we are. christina greer, david jolly and tara palmeri, thank you all. that was great. >> thank you. that is "all in" on this monday night. the rachel mad doe show starts with eamon mow hi dean in for rachel. good evening. >> thank you so much. thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. rachel has the night off but we have a lot to get to tonight. tonight there is new guidance from the cdc shortening the recommended isolation time if you test positive for covid-19. now, before tonight you may recall the recommendation had been to isolate for ten days, but now the cdc is saying you only need to isolate for five days as long as you are asymptomatic at that five-day point followed by five days of wearing a mask when around other people. now, this new guidance comes as the omicron variant sends daily case loads to record levels in parts of the united states. today president biden joined a call between