tv The Sunday Show With Jonathan Capehart MSNBC January 2, 2022 7:00am-9:00am PST
a new year means a new mayor for america's most populous city. less than 48 hours after being sworn in, new york mayor eric adams joins me live to discuss his plans for tackling everything, from covid to crime. plus, the insurrection one year later, through the eyes of three people who had three very different experiences that day. congresswoman madeleine dean, u.s. capitol police officer harry dunn, and washington, d.c. mayor muriel bowser. and the senate returns tomorrow with the presidents' build back better plan hanging in the balance. congresswoman pramila jayapal will be here to talk about what she expects to happen. i'm jonathan capehart. this is "the sunday show." a very happy new year to you on this first sunday of 2022. we begin this morning in new
york city, where the new year brings a new mayor. former police captain eric leroy adams became the city's 110th mayor, only the second black person ever elected to that office, mere moments after the ball dropped in times square early yesterday morning. mayor adams is inheriting the biggest municipal budget and largest workforce in big apple history. joining him in city hall will be the five deputy mayors he appointed, all of them women. and he will need them as he manages a very full plate with both new and familiar challenges, including navigating the city's evolving omicron surge, resuming in person schooling tomorrow for the nation's largest public school district, and building local alliances with fellow democrats who are much further to his political left. labor leaders endorsed adams in the democratic primary last year to be, quote, new york city's blue collar mayor. now that he is mayor, will he meet those expectations?
joining me now is the 110th mayor of new york city, eric adams, mayor adams, thank you very much for coming to "the sunday show." >> thank you, jonathan. and i know you are in washington, but you have a new york state of mind. >> well, thank you very much, mr. mayor. after you took the oath, there in times square, you said, quote, new york is back. but my question is, is it? because covid is surging, broadway is closed, restaurants are empty. crime is going up. is new york city back, really? >> yes, it is. and, you know, i could always reflect on september 11th, 2001, our center of trade was attacked. people looked at our city and they focused on the 11th. i didn't. i focused on the 12th. we got up, teachers taught, builders built. that's where we are now. these moments may seem dark in
despair, we're resilient. we want to cycle out of covid, regrow our economy and ensure our city is safe, that's the prerequisite of prosperity and justice. >> new york city, just like other big cities around the country, is experiencing a spike in crime. you ran on it. people voted for you because of how you talked about public safety. now that you are mayor, what are you going to do to deal with the spike in crime? >> jonathan, you're right. this is a national crisis that has been ignored on the federal level for so long. we have allowed a small handful of gun manufacturers to really overproliferate our city streets with guns. you see what is happening in chicago. mayor light foot is talking about she needs more funding for police. my good friend in san francisco, the mayor is calling the state of emergency, and right here in
new york, we are see ing seeing feeling of being safe. i need a leader, i brought on board an amazing police commissioner, she's going to do an amazing job. we're going to zero on gun violence, and gangs. they go together. we're going to take down these gangs that are really creating the havoc in our city and we're going to put in place a plain clothes anti-gun unit. we're going to partner with our federal, state and city to find those who are bringing guns into our city in the first place and start identifying some of those bad gun dealers, because you can't just continue to have it after the guns reach our city. we have to stop the flow as well. >> mr. mayor, let me stop you and ask you about this plain
clothes unit that you're talking about. there are a lot of new yorkers who remember the plain clothes unit in the giuliani administration, and the fear that it instilled in a lot of communities. how are you going to have a plain clothes anti-gun unit while at the same time convincing communities that, you know, they're not going to be run roughshod over by these plain clothes cops? >> so true. remember, i stood outside the 103rd precinct yesterday, the precinct that i was arrested and assaulted in by police officers. this has been my narrative for over 30 years. when in the police department as the organizer, i testified against the street crime unit that took the life of amadou diallo and so many. i know how to get this right. this is what we're going to do in my plan. number one, we are going to have the right officers assigned. they're going to wear their body cameras. every interaction they have is
going to be videoed and reviewed. the right supervision, and then precision policing will match my precision resources. we know who the bad guys are in this city. and we know where the gun violence is stemming from. and we're going to zero in on that location. not what we did before. >> mr. mayor, there are a bunch of things i want to get to in the time that we have, i have to get you on one other thing, related to public safety. members of the city council sent you a letter calling on you to do away with solitary confinement and you said in a lengthy answer to a question about this, you said, quote, i wore a bulletproof vest for 22 years and protected the people of this city, when you do that, then you have the right to question me. when you see the entire answer you gave in context, i kind of get -- i get what you're saying there, but folks are isolating that one quote to express, i think, very real concerns about how open you are to hearing different points of view, but
also to concerns of the community. should folks be worried about how that statement there sheds a light on how you actually govern? >> no, just the opposite. they should be worried when you have a group that decides to send a letter instead of picking up the phone. i'm one of the most accessible elected officials possible. we're not going to solve our problems by sending letters to the media and talk about it. call me, talk to me, hear my concerns. i am opposed to solitary confinement. that is a draconian way to protect the city. but what i am saying, you can't be an inmate, sexually assault a correction officer or another inmate, and then stay in general population. punitive segregation is a humane way of removing dangerous inmates to a location where they can get the services they need, so they can stop preying on other inmates, staff, and
preying on society. it is unacceptable to state you're not going to remove dangerous inmates from an environment with other inmates serving their time. 80% of adults on is -- let's talk about the government you inherited as i mentioned in the intro, you have the largest budget ever at $102.8 billion. the largest city workforce in city history at 325,000 employees. mr. mayor, is that sustainable? >> i don't believe it is. and i talk about it all the time, jonathan, we're dysfunctional. not only are we dysfunctional as a city, we're dysfunctional as a country. we continuously allow problems to happen that we cause and then we attempt to resolve those problems by the same agencies. the key to running a good city is to coordinate your agencies, have a real deep dive into our
budget. i'm the first to hire a chief officer, efficiency officer, we are going to go into that budget, we're going to look at salaries, we're going to look at manpower, we're going to look at the duplication of services and start to produce a better product. new yorkers are not getting their money's worth and they're going to get their money's worth. >> you talk about just mentioned your chief efficiency officer, one thing that is notable as i mentioned also in the intro, your five deputy mayors who you appointed, all of them are women, in full disclosure, first deputy mayor lorraine grillo is a long time friend of mine, i consider that to be probably the smartest decision you made as mayor. but i want to ask you -- also i want to point out that two of those deputy mayors are the first asian-americans to be appointed deputy mayor in the city of new york. why did you feel it was important that you have an all
woman executive staff really of deputy mayors? >> well, you know, first, it was not the gender was not the top of the list. it was their ability. i say this all the time, jonathan, i believe in emotional intelligence. i believe in your ability to build an environment of trust. when i sat down and spoke with those women, i heard the narrative in the stories. many of them have gone through a lot. it is time for people to lead cities, people who have gone through a lot, to help people who are going through a lot. that's my narrative. and when i put this team together, i wanted to focus on the emotional intelligence, the capabilities, the academic achievements, and then do a combination of visionaries, with long time people who understood government, lorraine grillo is not only a long time friend of yours, a long time friend of new york city, and i put a good team around her. she's the anchor of -- to the team as my first deputy mayor.
>> eric adams, the brand-new mayor of new york city, the 110th mayor of new york city, thank you very, very much for coming to "the sunday show." >> thank you, take care. >> all right. coming up, it has been almost a year since the deadly january 6th insurrection. i'll talk to three key people who are in the midst of it all. who are in the midst of it all (vo) the more we do with our phones, the more network quality and reliability matter. and only verizon has been the most awarded for network quality 27 times in a row. that means the best experience with calls, texts and data usage of any major carrier, according to customers. there's only one best network. the only one ranked #1 in reliability 16 times in a row. we are building 5g right.
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point in american democracy. the january 6th insurrection. one year ago we saw lawmakers and reporters huddled behind makeshift barricades and lying behind chairs on the balcony of the house chamber as an angry mob breached the capitol building. one year ago, chance of hang mike pence filled the air outside the capitol, where the vice president was poised to certify the 2020 election. one year ago, outnumbered and overwhelmed, capitol police faced a tidal wave of violence, while waiting hours for additional help. it was an unforgettable day that continues to affect our country. joining me now, three people who were in washington, d.c. that day. pennsylvania congresswoman and former impeachment manager madeleine dean, u.s. capitol police officer harry dunn, and the mayor of washington, d.c., muriel bowser. thank you, all, very, very much for being here and for your willingness to share your
stories from that horrible day. congresswoman dean, i'm going to start with you, because for me, that iconic and haunting picture of you in the house, in the gas mask, to me said just about everything -- almost everything that happened on that day. can you take us back to that very moment that we're seeing on screen right now? >> yes, thank you for having all of us. and i'm pleased to be here with you to recall what happened. i was up in the gallery, we were preparing for the arguments for the pennsylvania challenge to the certification of the electors. i was up in the gallery observing, i attempted to go back to my office, but was told to go back to the gallery because there was a bomb threat in canon house office building. and what happened as i stood there, we heard this series of strange announcements coming from the floor. first, sit down. then, lie down. prepare. get your gas masks out from under your seat.
jonathan, i have to admit to you, i didn't not know we had gas masks under the seat until i heard that instruction. and then we're told to put on the gas mask. i think you can see there i'm on the phone either with staffer or my son or my husband, sadly in the phone calls that went back and forth in those few minutes, i'm sure i traumatized or terrorized my kids, and my family. but in that moment we were being escorted out. and i remember we were climbing over or climbing under the railing that are up in the gallery. it was a terrifying moment and what was also happening and this is what haunts me still is there this pounding on the doors of the gallery, of the chamber i kept thinking, surely this place is safe. if there is any place on this planet that is safe, it is this place. but we heard that announcement,
they have infiltrated the rotunda, tear gas has been deployed, put on your gas masks, and then that awful pounding and piercing of the glass, we all scurried to try to protect one another. it was just an absolutely -- just terrifying. absolutely terrifying. >> and while congresswoman dean was going through that and talking -- just saying about the pounding on the doors, the breaching of the capitol, officer dunn was right there in the middle of it, enduing all manner of abuse. officer dunn, take us back to that horrible day, from your perspective. >> good morning, john. thank you for having me on. happy new year to you, to you two ladies and gentlemen here. thank you. good to see you, congresswoman dean. what a day. i just -- hearing everything about january 6th, every time somebody talks about it, you
find out something new about what happened. that's the first time i saw that picture of the congresswoman in the hood. i was outside when it was happening initially and i responded inside. so i didn't know what was going on inside the building. it was -- just like you said, you're reliving it by new experiences and hearing different voices about what happened that day. my experience was it was different, i guess, everybody had a different experience. just thinking about it a little bit, but what i do want to say is that -- go ahead, go ahead. >> officer dunn, you know, i appreciate just how hard it must be and can be to relive what you went through. here's what i'm going to do. i'm going to play some sound from your testimony before congress, back in july, that really says it all about the
experience you endured and we'll talk on the other side. >> all right. >> i'm a law enforcement officer. and i do my best to keep politics out of my job. but in this circumstance, i responded, i voted for joe biden, does my vote not count? am i nobody? that prompted a torrent of racial epithets. one woman in a pink maga shirt yelled, you hear that, guys? this [ bleep ] voted for joe biden. and the crowd, perhaps around 20 people, joined in screaming boo [ bleep ]. >> officer dunn, those are two of the instances that when you recalled the "n" word. but you said before that, you had been routinely called the "n" word during the
insurrection. >> no, i want to clarify what happened. it was one of the instances by multiple people that called me the "n" word, wasn't like i was being pounded with it all day. but talking with some of my co-workers after january 6th, even up until last week, people are telling me stories of what happened. i saw there was a report of a firefighter that responded to take somebody out, a rioter who was hurt, and they were calling her the "n" word as they was trying to help him. i don't believe that, like i said, that the entire day was about race. there so much that went wrong that day, that was so bad about that day, you don't have to just make it about race, but to act like it wasn't there or deny it is wrong. but what i wanted to say earlier about january 6th, the different experiences and everything that we went through, there is no --
we train going through the police academy, domestics, how to deal with arguments, conflict resolution, but we never -- i've never had insurrection training. a lot of it was based on survival and just how to get through and a lot of instincts and trusting the person next to you. and i'm glad and happy to say that i work with such a great group of men and women who were able to successfully navigate that day. as ugly as that day was, no congressman and women or their staff was hurt that day. and the mission of congress was fulfilled. >> i want to point out that officer dunn is here, speaking in his personal capacity, just to be clear about that. you know, mayor bowser, to pick up on what officer dunn just said about a lot of things went wrong that day, one of the things that went wrong was that they were overrun and that the national guard took a long time
to get there. you as the mayor of washington, d.c. have no -- you have no control over the national guard like governors do in states. talk about how difficult that one thing made it for you to help protect the folks of the capitol. >> well, i think, jonathan, there are going to be a lot of lessons learned and that's why the work of the committee is so important to get the facts of the things that went wrong and make sure that this can never happen again. you point to one thing that has to change, the congress had the ability to do it and hasn't done it to this point. but the mayor of washington, d.c. has to have full control of the d.c. national guard. full stop. what we saw last year on january 6th was my request, having to circle through the secretary of the army, and all the way to the president. and when the president is part of the problem, that is a big
issue. and so that has to be rectified. i think another key lesson that we learned is how vulnerable our country is at times of transition. outgoing trump administration, not yet a new president, and the planning over special security events being muddled. next i would say, jonathan, that the coordination of events at the capitol, especially involving our elections and all of our elected officials, all the way up to the vice president have to be a special security event that the executive and legislative branches are working under one full command. but our police department called by the united states capitol police to assist, and all law enforcement did so much to save our democracy on that day, and we have to be eternally grateful, but they should never be put in that position again. >> mayor bowser, officer dunn,
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if you're feeling anxious about the future, you're not alone. calhope offers free covid-19 emotional support. call 833-317-4673, or live chat at calhope.org today. back with me to talk about their lived experience on january 6th, congresswoman madeleine dean, officer harry dunn and mayor muriel bowser. >> sorry. >> that's all right. you're up and ready, which is great. i'm coming to you first. and given everything that you said, before we took the break,
especially how the transfer of power should be considered a national security event, how afraid are you that this could happen again, that an insurrection at the capitol could happen again? >> well, i think another thing that we learned, jonathan, is that our national intelligence infrastructure has to take seriously threats from within. and a look at kind of the home grown anti-american really and anti-democratic groups that have sprung up across our nation. but one thing for sure, they have to be punished for what they have already done. they have to be held accountable. that's why we're very focused on all of the prosecutions that are happening here. we still have a person, you heard the congresswoman mention earlier, something that hasn't gotten a lot of attention, but we had two active bombs in the district that distracted law
enforcement from the capitol that day. and no one has ever been located who has placed those bombs. so accountability is going to be very important. and the national intelligence infrastructure, our country has to take the threat of white nationalism very seriously because we did not -- it did not believe that people would try to overthrow their country and try to stop the election. >> officer dunn, as someone who battled with the insurrectionists on that day, how afraid are you that it could happen again there at the capitol? >> well, not just as a police officer, who was there, but just as a concerned american citizen, you know, who believes in democracy, it is scary to think that something like this can happen again and yet it can happen again. i mean, you look at some of the sentences people are getting, one gu 20 days in jail, there
is nothing in place now deterring these people from doing something like that again. or just because an election doesn't go somebody's way, they say, you know what, let's take it to the capitol and see what we can do or any -- or state house or, you know, governor's -- doesn't matter. it is scary to think that, you know, we opened up, you know, pandora's box and here we are with the thought that this can happen again, just if it doesn't go somebody's way. >> officer dunn, how does it feel to work at a complex, on a complex, surrounded by people who have tried to downplay what happened on january 6th? >> so, you know, doing your job as a police officer, you look at what's important and how with the mission of your job is, and with all respect to congresswoman dean there, the person is not important, but the seat that they represent is
important as long as you keep that perspective, you're able to do your job. because it is not about a person, you think about what is -- what that seat represents and that's the thousands, hundreds, millions of people that that seat represents. if it was a different person before that congress person, it will be somebody after, so the seat is -- the seat -- >> so, congresswoman dean, you serve in the chamber, in the house, you serve inside congress. how afraid are you that january 6th type insurrection could happen again? >> well, i have to first note, this -- i'm so pleased to be on this panel. some things good happened after january 6 th. i got to know officer dunn, i now call him harry, he doesn't seem to mind. the service, our mayor, the clarity with which both of them
express what went wrong and what needs to happen, good things can come of this. but i am afraid because what powered this insurrection, what fueled it was a president and many others complicit in spreading the big lie. and to come to power on a lie is extraordinarily dangerous. we saw exactly what happened, president trump came to power on a series of lies, and then on his way out the door, tried to promote himself and put down an election, free will of the people of this country, on a series of lies. i am fearful that if we don't get to the bottom of it, if we don't get to the truth, we are at risk for having this happen again. and my greatest fear is for the future. like harry, what i think is it is not about the individuals necessarily, it is much bigger than that. it is much bigger than any of us. it is about our precious
democracy. if we don't lift up the truth and put down the lies, our democracy is at stake. and that is not an overstatement. i would not have thought that 15 years ago. but now i recognize the precious fragile nature of this experiment in democracy, and if we don't do our part to uphold it, to point out the truth, to call out the lies, we could see this happen again. sadly i am worried for my children and my grandchildren. >> i'm trying to hold it together right now because this conversation -- >> i think that's all of us, all of america is trying to hold it together now. >> i mean, officer dunn, your answer to my question just broke me because it just speaks to the professionalism that you can still put on that uniform and
protect people who take your life for granted. i cannot thank you enough for your service. >> thank you. >> mayor bowser, we have known each other a long time. and your leadership during that time and continued is remarkable and spectacular. and congresswoman dean, you have been a voice of clarity through all of this, and i hope that the fear that you express and that i share ends up being unwarranted. what makes me so upset is i don't think it is. congresswoman madeleine dean, officer harry dunn, mayor muriel bowser, thank you all, very much, for coming to "the sunday show." coming up -- >> thank you. >> -- we look back at what happened on january 6th with the
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we'll have public hearings, we'll tell this story to the american people, but we won't do it piecemeal. we'll do it when we can tell the story all at once, from start to finish. not leaving anyone guessing, and not allowing it to fade into the memories of last week's news. >> as the january 6th select committee prepares for public hearings in 2022, the panel has already interviewed more than 300 witnesses, collected more than 35,000 pages of material, and issues 52 subpoenas. one of the big questions is whether two sitting members of congress, congressman jim jordan and house minority leader kevin mccarthy both invited to voluntarily testify will do so.
and what happens if they don't? joining me now, former federal prosecutor barbara mcquade. thank you very much for coming to "the sunday show." so let's have that conversation. what happens if leader mccarthy and congressman jim jordan -- what happens if they're subpoenaed? we have never seen anything like that before, have we? >> no, jonathan. you know, the word unprecedented is sometimes overused i think in these days. but this is absolutely a situation of unprecedented, subpoenaing a member of congress. as a professional courtesy, they have first been requested to come forward. but if they continue to refuse, chairman thompson said they will use subpoenas if necessary. i imagine they will fight them, you know, asserting some of the same legal arguments we heard from others. but i think if congress wants this information, there is nothing in the law that prohibits them from issuing subpoenas to fellow members of
congress. >> you know this is one of my favorite sound bites of congressman jordan, who is, you know, very voluble and very animated when it comes to talking about democrats. here, everyone knows this clip, but i love playing it. so let's play it, congressman jim jordan from july, when he was asked a very simple question. >> did you speak with president trump on january 6th? >> yeah, i mean, i spoke with the president last week. i speak with the president all the time. i spoke with him on january 6th. on january 6th, did you speak with him before, during or after the capitol was attacked? >> i would have to go -- i spoke with him that day after. i think after. i don't know if i spoke with him in the morning or not. i just don't know. i would have to go back and -- i don't -- i don't know that -- when those conversations happened. >> i mean, barbara, and
listening to -- would he even have a leg to stand on to say both no i'm not going to voluntarily come in and to say -- and to fight a subpoena? >> well, i think at some point if he continues to fight, then the committee will demand that he come by issuing a subpoena. at that point his options are to be held in contempt, which can include jail time if he has prosecuted for that crime. so the same path that we have seen for steve bannon. so i think it is going to be difficult for him to manage, because unlike steve bannon, he's an elected official. and at some point i think his refusal to testify could impact his candidacy down the road. of course, he represents a base that perhaps would see that sort of defiance as being more attractive rather than less attractive. he's clearly somebody who has information. i think if i put somebody on the stand with that kind of evasive answer, i would use that as evidence of consciousness of guilt. i want to know what they
discussed that day, before that day, and after that day. >> i got two quick questions to ask you in the time we have. one, how concerned are you about the timetable? because everyone is focused on the fact that if, you know, leadership changes hands, if the majority changes hands from democrats to republicans, that the select committee -- in the midterm elections -- that the select committee is going to go away and then all of this effort, to hold people accountable, will go by the way side. am i wrong in thinking that if these folks fight subpoenas, and it gets into the court system, shouldn't that be a level of comfort that if the committee goes away, the legal process will keep going and maybe they'll be held accountable that way? >> i think that if the committee goes away, those lawsuits go away as moot quite possibly. congress in the new majority could withdraw them. i am optimistic that this scenario could play out, which is that if this committee disbands, that the justice department will pick up its
work, if it has not already done so. >> are you concerned that we haven't heard anything from the justice department? there are a lot of people who are like, hey, attorney general merrick garland, what you doing, are you doing anything. >> i'm not concerned. i know it seems that it would be likely we would be hearing some things if some of the key witnesses were being put in the grand jury. but i don't think we should assume they're doing nothing. they have said from the outset that the january 6th umbrella was the investigation they needed to investigate anyone and anything including seditious conspiracy. so i am hopeful that they continue to investigate. it may be that they're letting congress do some of the leg work for them. but that at some point they will turn to holding these people accountable. so i retain optimism that the justice department is on the job. >> former federal prosecutor barbara mcquade, thank you very much for coming to "the sunday show." >> thank you, jonathan. >> coming up, why we can and will survive 2022, no matter how
crazy things may seem. presidential historian michael beschloss breaks it down for us when we come back. ichael beschloss breaks it down for us enwh we come back. clerk: hello, how can i? sore throat pain? ♪honey lemon♪ try vicks vapocool drops. in honey lemon chill. for fast-acting sore throat relief. wooo vaporize sore throat pain with vicks vapocool drops. (vo) for fourteen years, subaru and our retailers have been sharing the love with those who need it most. now subaru is the largest automotive donor to make-a-wish and meals on wheels. and the largest corporate donor to the aspca and national park foundation. get a new subaru during the share the love event and
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in a safe place and your child safer. to close, twist until it clicks. tide pods child-guard packaging. i know i won't alone in bidding a hardy good riddance to 2021. the past two years have been brutal, for all of us. and 2022 may very well be more of the same. in times like these, hope may be found in looking to the past, and remembering that we as americans have been through and survived worse. and here to help us do just that historian michael beschloss, author of "presidents of war." thank you very much for coming to "the sunday show." i don't know if you saw -- i don't know if you saw the january 6th segment i did with mayor bowser. >> i was very moved by your reaction. i felt the same way. >> and so, you know, as optimistic as i am about our future, as a country, it is like
in the here and now, i am very afraid. and i know i'm not alone. so from a historian's perspective, please ground us and give us some historian histc here on why we shouldn't be as afraid as we are. >> well, i think to begin with, your reaction and those who spoke with you, you're absolutely right. if we lose our democracy in america, 2022 could be the year that we lost it, for a lot of reasons but the main one is the cornerstone, as you know, of american democracy is elections and voting rights. if those are broken by lying election officials in the states or lying state legislators who force someone into office who was never elected, then we're not too much different from musilini's italy. they won with 99.85% of the vote
supposedly. is that the kind of elections we want? so that's pretty scary. i felt just the same way, but if you look at american history, we've had dark knights of the soul. we've worked very hard to win our independence from england. the civil war, huge dangers to this republic. 1932, the great depression. this country was about to come apart and people were suffering in huge numbers. 1940 and 1941 many americans were saying we've got to stand up to adolph hitler and the imperial japanese and if we don't, the world is going to be dominated by fascists. what i would say, jonathan, is there is a reason why if you go back through history you can be pretty optimistic about what we're going through now because america is resilient, but it is only resilient when americans roll into action. 2022, biggest challenge we've
got is to protect voting rights. i don't want to be someone who in 50 years historians look back and say, why didn't you do something to stop it at the time you could if historians are allowed to write about our history at all then. >> you know, michael, on the front page of the washington post today u it has a new poll out. one in three americans say violence against government can be justified. what do you make of that? >> things that we assumed were permanent in america are falling apart and that makes all of this more difficult. you know, when in american history would you have found a poll like that. most americans for all their limitations in earlier periods of american life were law abiding and they would say let's have political change but always change without violence. when in american history before did we have situations where a majority, for instance, of republicans now say according to
more than one poll donald trump was elected in 2020, of course that's a lie, and joe biden stole the election? those things are dangerous. huge numbers of americans thought that barack obama was born in kenya, which obviously he was not, or that saddam hussain was behind 9/11. this is really dangerous, and in 2022 there's social media to exploit these lies in a way that was not true through most of american history. so all i'm saying is the remedy for all of this is we've got to roll into action. you know, please don't tell me you need a vacation this year or you're distracted by something else in your life. all of these things are absolutely important, but if we lose our democracy this year, we are unlikely to get it back during our lifetimes. i can't think of anything more important than that. >> michael, as we all know, you are an historian. we also know that presidents like to reach out to historians
from time to time to get some perspective. have you had a conversation with joe biden since he's become president of the united states? >> yeah, there was a conversation that was reported in march so i'm not giving away anything that was a quiet, off the record conversation, where the president spent two hours with six or seven historians at a long table in the east room, not asking for advice. the reports of this have been largely not right. they sort of have it that historians were urging him to be fdr or to do 1.5 trillion was not enough, you have to do more in build back better. no one was in that room giving political advice. what we were trying to do was talk about the magnitude of the problems that he was facing. and one point i think most of us thought in march, if i remember correctly was that if joe biden
fails, if we lose our democracy, that could be game over for this country, and i see no reason to see that as different now. i think i would say it would be even more in force today. >> michael, thank you so much for coming to "the sunday show." >> thank you, jonathan. coming up in our next hour, congresswoman pramila jayapal is here to discuss president biden's agenda in 2022 plus answers to your covid questions as omicron continues to rage and an all-star panel ready to sound off on the week's biggest stories. you don't want to miss this. mission control, we are go for launch. um, she's eating the rocket. ♪♪
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good morning and welcome back to "the sunday show." i'm jonathan cape heart. we are now officially in an election year. senate democrats are returning to the nation's capitol tomorrow fired up ready to work to get voting rights and build back better on president biden's desk before the mid-term elections, but there are more than a few hurdles in their path. senator joe manchin says he just can't vote for the almost $2 trillion social spending bill in its current form and the senate parliamentarian says that the immigration provisions don't pass muster under reconciliation rules to pass by a simple majority vote. a week ago today in an op ed for
the washington post congresswoman pramila jayapal laid down a marker for getting some version of build back better passed and onto the president's desk. she brought the progressive caucus will continue to work toward legislation for build back better, focused on keeping it as close to the agreed upon framework as possible. at the same time we are calling on the president to use executive action to immediately improve people's lives. what does this look like? joining me now is the chair of the congressional progressive caucus, congresswoman pramila jayapal. welcome back to "the sunday show." >> good morning, jonathan. happy 2022. >> yes, happy new year. before we talk about build back better, we have to talk about breaking news this morning. twitter has suspended congresswoman marjorie taylor
green permanently, her personal twitter account. here's the statement from the twitter spokesperson. we've permanently suspended the account at mtg green e for repeated of our covid-19 misinformation policy. we've been clear that per our strike policy we will permanently suspend accounts for repeated violations of the policy. not to, you know, remain silent, congresswoman greene put out her own statement. it was a long one. you know, lots of conspiracy and craziness. this is the key line. that's fine, i'll show america we don't need them and it's time to defeat our enemies. your reaction to this news here? >> well, jonathan, it's -- it's no secret that our social media companies have been part of their algorithms promoting disinformation, and i think that
these steps are important but frankly a little too little and a little too late. the reality is it's not just marjorie taylor greene. all over twitter, social media, facebook all of these companies have been using algorithms that are about click bait, not about truth. so if we are going to take on the disinformation that's out there, the big lie and everything else that goes with it then, yes, this is a part of it, but it's got to be much, much more. that said, i think it's just as well that we take one voice, you know, that is deliberately spreading disinformation out of the mix as much as possible, that's certainly a good thing. >> especially a voice as mean as that one. let's talk about build back better. as i said in the intro, congress comes back. build back better, at least trying to get it reworked into the president's desk is on the agenda. you wrote an op ed in the washington post a week ago today
laying down a marker. i want to have you listen to what congressman ro khanna had to say when i asked him about the future of build back better. have a listen. >> do i think it's going to be the bill that we voted out of the house? no. do i think it's going to be the exact framework that president biden had? no. i'm a realist. here's the point. we in the house stand ready to compromise. we want to get something done. so what we need 50 senators to tell us is what are you for and the president and the house will work to getting something done in a compromise that is necessary for the american public. >> and, congresswoman jayapal, what i took from congressman khanna's statement there is we stand ready to compromise and that the bill -- a new build back better won't look like what we've been talking about for months now.
from your vantage point, what necessarily must be in the new version of build back better? >> well, jonathan, the thing that i tried to lay out in the op ed was the process that got us to where we are, which included an agreement from senators manchin and cinema and the president and the progressive caucus endorsed, what we're calling the framework that the president laid out before he went to cop 26. it had the critical priorities, not as big as we would want. not as many as we would want but it had the critical priorities of the care economy, that's child care, it's pre-k, universal pre-k, elder care. those were all things that senator manchin agreed to. housing, he agreed to that. these are things i've spoken to him about as well by the way. he also agreed to, you know, the provisions around climate change. those were already negotiated from what we had originally wanted. a significant investment in
really taking on climate and reducing carbon emissions. strengthen the ability to get health care particularly now during omicron. these were all pieces that he actually agreed to in my conversations with him as well, he supported, and my belief is we can still get that done. and so the goal now is to do two things, one, work very quickly to actually get that legislation passed. it's urge gents. along with voting rights, those two pieces absolutely are urgent on the legislative calendar. then the second is because we don't know how much that piece is going to take, there are executive actions the president can take today to make it better for people and to, let's say, up the ante to get legislation done because the other path has to be executive action. i think we will be rolling out our list of things we want the
president to work on. begin by saying he was going to put a pause on student debt, extend that pause beyond the original date. that's good. but we would like him to cancel student debt. we'd like him to take action on climate. a few other things to cut cost for american people. so that's really what we're calling on the people to do. >> so you said just now you believe you can still get that done, meaning the framework that you laid out there. i'm still sitting here thinking how are you going to get that done when the guy you were negotiating with and who you say agreed to all of these things said that he, quote, just can't? >> well, he said he can't do the bill that we passed out of the house which, look, you know how i feel about this. i certainly respect him and he
represents a state where not a lot of democrats win and so i respect that he has a very different view of this, but he said he couldn't do the bill that we passed through the house. as you remember, we added some things that were not in the framework. and so what we hope now and what i hope the president is working on with senator manchin is to go back to the original framework that he committed to. there were only a few things, maybe 10% of the bill, that was not what he committed to and i think that it was unfortunate that he, you know, announced on national television that he was essentially killing the bill because there was a little bit that he hadn't agreed to. but let's go back to the table. let's get this done. it is too important for us particularly as omicron surges and we have these clouds over us, the clouds of the economic uncertainty because of covid and of course the enormous cloud of our democracy that is in front of us. joe biden, democrats need to
succeed in helping americans to see that we can get stuff done and that we are going to make their lives better and that we are going to protect our democracy. that is the most important thing. >> congresswoman, have you spoken to senator manchin since he blew things up? >> i spoke to him the day after his conversation on fox news. he called me and we spoke then. i have not spoken to him since that time but i am always happy to speak to him and think about how we get it back to that original framework. jonathan, i do have to say that as much as we are pushing hard on these fronts and we haven't yet reached the finish line, i want to remind people that under president biden and with the democratically controlled house and senate we have -- at this time last year we had over 800,000 unemployment claims. that has declined by 75% and we've created 6 million new jobs in just one year under president
biden and covid is nowhere near where it was in terms of people being vaccinated, people wearing masks. of course we have the surge. we've got to take care of it. i don't want people to forget how much we've done with the american rescue plan and with president biden's leadership. that is really important. now we've got to cross the finish line on these other pieces. >> one more question real quickly, congresswoman. and that is this, if a build back better bill comes out of the senate that just has child tax credit, universal pre-k, fully funded, not partially funded but fully funded and, say, elder care, three things, only three things fully funded, would that be acceptable? >> let's not go down that line yet because as i said, these other pieces we're also committed to. let's figure out what of those things can get done. jonathan, let's also remember that universal pre-k, elder
care, child tax credit, each one of these things on their own is also significant. i'm not quite ready to negotiate with ourselves. i want to have a person we're negotiating with to get it over the finish line otherwise that makes sense. >> i was trying to get you to negotiate with me. congresswoman pramila jayapal -- >> as soon as we get close to the woman. >> congresswoman pramila jayapal, chair of the progressive caucus, thank you very much for coming back to "the sunday show." >> thank you, jonathan. coming up, will this pandemic ever end? dr. ben gupta is here to try to answer our toughest covid questions when we come back. t. ow! i'm ok! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ only in theaters december 17th.
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and, the hits won't quit, with peacock premium included at no additional cost. all that entertainment built in. xfinity. a way better way to watch. we're in the third calendar year of this pandemic but it seems as if we have more questions than ever. what does that mean? how long do we quarantine? when? and will this ever be over? joining me now to help answer is critical care pulmonologist and msnbc contributor dr. ben gupta. welcome back to "the sunday show." >> good morning, jonathan. thank you for having me. >> dr. gupta, on a scale of 1 to 10, how worried are you of a post holiday surge of the omicron variant? >> forecasts have shown, cold and flu season, winter seasons
are tough, given the delta variant, omicron. the next 8 to 12 weeks are going to be challenging for zip codes, hospitals around the country especially in zip codes that don't have high vaccine uptake rates. we've known this 10,000 weekly deaths week over week well into the beginning of march. i don't expect a respite to that until mid to end of march 2022. but hopefully then there will be a light at the end of the tunnel. >> i want to ask you about this headline. scientists predict omicron will peak in the u.s. in mid january but may still overwhelm hospitals. what's your understanding, you've sort of talked about, this talk about it again, about when this variant might peak and how bad will it get until it does? >> you know, what we're learning is from south africa, from denmark, from overseas experiences with this variant, the peak happened really quickly, jonathan, then it's
started to taper off. we're expecting something similar here. omicron will burn through much of the population that is, say, unvaccinated. it might cause mild illnesses. it will cause a positive test or runny nose or throat and we expect that process to happen over the next two to three weeks. what's going to unfortunately, this is where the narrative has gotten, is that even if studies show omicron won't land somebody who's fully vaccinated in the hospital, if you are unvaccinated, omicron is still a huge problem which is why we're seeing hospitals stress. this is going to cause case rates to increase. we've been talking about this week over week. the numbers are pretty astonishing. it's going to follow well into the beginning of february. >> well, speaking of that, i mean, case rates, because i'm wondering, do we have a sense of how many positive cases are
going unaccounted for? this is becoming an issue because of, you know, the rise of people using at-home tests if they can get them. how accurate are rapid tests in detecting omicron? >> it's important that you ask that because it's important for everybody to recognize and have faith and confidence in these rapid tests, the number we're purchasing if they're available. they sense that the virus has gone unchanged even despite these variants. it hasn't mutated. people are familiar with the spike protein, the harness that they use to attach to our nose cells. that harness has mutated in the setting of omicron. another over the counter test you can get at your local drugstore, they don't sense for that part. it senses for something else. so it's all to say that that fda
advisory that was released earlier this week that was done in an abundance of caution but all of these companies that are producing these tests have shown there is no decreased clinical sensitivity with their test, so i think everybody should really pause and feel calm that these tests are still working as they should. however, to your point, yes, absolutely. we have 11 at-home covid tests available. a lot of people are using them, no mandatory reporting. even though we have half a million cases day over day, that's likely an under estimate by a significant margin. >> as i mentioned in the intro to mayor adams at the beginning of this show, kids are going back to school in new york city and they're going back to school in jurisdictions around the country. what would you say to parents who are worried about sending their kids off to in-person school tomorrow? >> i'm a father to a 4-year-old and we're doing something similar in pre-k here. we trust what's happening with protocols and procedures here in the city of seattle and
something is happening here in the city of new york. vaccines are highly encouraged for children that are otherwise eligible, 5 and up. and mandatory mask wearing and there's mandatory of vaccinations for adults. that combination in addition to improvements in ventilation in most places across the country gives us confidence as parents, and i hope it gives confidence to parents across the country, that if measures are taken and sort of common sense, you know your kids are safe. >> last question, dr. gupta, the one everyone is wondering. when will this pandemic end? >> i think to answer that, jonathan, depends in part on our psychological framework. vaccines that are contagious, respiratory viruses do not prevent positive tests or mild symptoms that keep you away from folks like me. we have to embrace that.
i think all of us in news media or contributing to it need to move away from daily case count reporting and talk about are people getting seriously ill, ending up in the hospital if they're triple vaccinated. let's report on it. we have to move away to embracing what these vaccines do, what they don't do. if we do that, i think end of march 2022 we're going to really open up to this new world here where, yes, you might get infected. yes, you might have mild symptoms and you won't end up in the hospital and that's the key point. >> march 2022 and i have my assignment going forward, dr. gupta. thank you very, very much for coming back to "the sunday show." >> thank you. coming up, my all-star panel and myself will sound off to the week's biggest topics. keep it right here. that's my calling-- to give back to younger people. i think most adults will start realizing that they don't recall things as quickly as they used to or they don't remember things as vividly as they once did.
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republicans in power, these changes will apply to them as well. that's simple fairness. >> back in 2013 thein sein nate majority leader harry reid killed the filibuster. the only way to get president obama's appointees through a republican barricade in the senate. in the wake of harry reid's death last week what lessons can democrats today take from reid's move nine years ago. joining me now to discuss, zur lena maxwell, host of zerlina and kimberly atkins storr from
the "boston globe." i know i set this up by talking about harry reid and the filibuster and the lessons going forward for democrats now in control of the senate but we have to talk about the breaking news involving mean taylor greene being suspended -- well, her personal twitter account being suspended permanently because of spreading false information about covid-19 through her account. would love each of you to give your reaction. congresswoman jayapal said too little too late. they should have done this sooner. is she right, zerlina? >> yes, she is right, jonathan. especially when it comes to covid misinformation, when you're talking about the difference between life and death, i think that suspending somebody for perpetuating this information knowingly is an important step, but we have to
go a little bit bigger. it can't just be social media accounts. i think the mainstream media and other media outlets who also amplify her and the people who donate to her after she says something outrageous and then sends an email to fund raise off of the controversy, i think we all have to get really serious. we're talking about nearly 1 million americans that have lost their lives and people are getting sick every single day. you just talked to dr. gupta about what's coming over the course of the next month. there is no games to be played any longer. get her off the platform and perhaps we can find a way to get her out of congress as well. >> you know, joan, i'm just wondering, yeah, they permanently suspended her from her personal twitter account. i'm just wondering what's stopping her from doing the same thing on her official account? your reaction. >> i don't think there's anything stopping her. i mean, i would say a sense of decorum, which is why she wasn't using it that way originally, jonathan. she has no decorum, so what am i
thinking? i agree it's too little too late. my grandma always said good riddance to bad rubbish. it's happened now. i believe twitter will keep an eye on her public account. we have to hope they do the same. it's not just covid misinformation though, it's supporting the january 6th insurrection, it's racism and hatred. we'll keep an eye on her. we'll call her out when we have to and we'll see what the house does. >> right. kimberly, your reaction? i read at the top of the hour her response to being taken off twitter, which was, you know, filled a lot of conspiracy theories. a lot of you just wait and see. i'm not done yet. there you see it. twitter is an enemy to america and can't handle the truth. that's fine. i'll show america we don't need
them and it's time to defeat our enemies. who in the -- what -- kimberly? >> yeah, i agree with everything that's been said and that was the only additional point that i would make is this continual rhetoric that creates an enemy out of anybody who stands up for what is right if they oppose this congresswoman and the other people who support her. it's the same weaponization that we saw -- verbal weaponization that we saw from donald trump continued on. i think that there is a danger in that. i mean, as nonsensical as this statement is, i agree with you. i think there is a danger of that continued kind of warlike talk when it comes to the media. i don't think twitter has covered itself in glory. >> i swear we're going to talk about filibuster, voting rights, stuff like that. i'm just wondering, zerlina, there are a lot of people who
watch us, read us, follow us who say why are we even talking about her? why do we cover her? can we -- explain to folks as lonesome as she is why it's kind of hard not to cover her. >> well, i think it's hard not to cover her because she has influence within the republican caucus. you can look at the actions of wanna be speaker kevin mccarthy and see what influence she has in the republican caucus. she also represents a large portion of the republican base, not the american electorate, the republican base, which is controlling republican leadership and the republicans who are also elected in the congress. so you have to cover her, but i think it's important to marginalize folks like this and i think that effort comes from republican leadership. i don't know if they're ever going to do that. i don't know if we get out of
this with them ever doing that but it's necessary. >> it's necessary for republican leadership to stand up to mean taylor greene, but so far house minority leader kevin mccarthy hasn't seen fit to do so. >> no. leader mccarthy, leader penalized -- they penalized liz cheney for telling the truth and they refused to discipline margie -- i call her margie q for her lies. as kimberly said, this constant demonization of enemies. we can't look away from that. that is part of why we had to cover that. we had january 6th. it was in some ways a wake-up call about this level of rhetoric and this level of violence but we need to keep the heat on because she is part of organizing with her rhetoric at least violence.
violates house rules by carrying a gun in, pays the fine. it's a real looking away from what is right and proper by kevin mccarthy and god willing he will not be nextspeaker. >> kimberly, the statement from marjorie taylor greene about her suspension and that, you know, thinly veiled threat that was in it comes on the heels of a washington post poll out this morning that shows one in three americans say violence against the government can at times be justified. >> yeah. i mean, that's what i mean about how dangerous it is. we saw from january 6th how dangerous it could be. i hope that everyone paid close assessment from mike saying this could be the year democracy fails and if it does, we won't get it back in our generation. that's how high the stakes are here and this is the messaging. this is part of the messaging that goes behind that direct threat. in that sense, yes.
i wish that leadership would marginalize her but if they're not, then we have to speak the truth as actually this is happening as members of the media. >> right. that's exactly why if mean taylor greene does anything or says anything that is egregious, i will write about it, i'll cover it because, you know, if democracy dies in darkness, violence flourishes in darkness if exposed. don't go anywhere. my panel is sticking around and we'll check in on the other sunday shows when we come back. l c to nurtec. the most common side effects were nausea, stomach pain, and indigestion. ask your doctor about nurtec today! wondering what actually goes into your multi-vitamin. at new chapter. its innovation organic ingredients and fermentation. fermentation? yes, formulated to help your body really truly absorb the natural goodness.
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to become a child's sponsor this holiday season. and your first month's gift will be matched. my hygienist cleans with a round head. so does my oral-b my hygienist personalizes my cleaning. so does my oral-b oral-b delivers the wow of a professional clean feel every day. you're going to have to subpoena a sitting member of congress, do you think? >> well, i think there are some questions of whether we had the authority to do it. we are looking at it. if the authorities are there, there will be no reluctance on our part. >> that's chairman of the
january 6th house select committee, bennie thompson making it perfectly clear they will not hesitate to subpoena sitting members of congress in their quest for truth in what happened will have one year ago. my panel is back with me. let's talk more about this. here's what chairman thompson had to say about their select committee. have a listen. >> we've had a number of members of congress to give us information on what they heard that might have gone on. we've heard directly from members referring us to other individuals, but we heard from those early on. now we're trying to get to those individuals that we have
basically identified that may have participated. representative perry and jordan are two of those individuals that we've sent letters to asking them to voluntarily cooperate. >> i mean, zerlina, i've been fixated on the committee and the way they talk about members of congress and it's been clear all along, they know who these members of congress are, but the idea now that we know for sure that members have stepped forward voluntarily to talk to the committee, what does that tell you? >> that thankfully there may be some members of congress on the republican side that realize they don't want to be the anti-democracy party. i think that we've gone away from the fact that we have a current republican party that's just against democrats. they are anti-democracy and post january 6th, jonathan, i think it's important for us to all realize we're starting 2022
after a year where america had the first insurrection ever. the first time we did not have a peaceful transfer of power. there are sitting members of congress that may have participated. we don't know for sure, but we do know they had conversations with the people who may have incited that insurrection so finding out exactly what they did, exactly who they spoke to and what they said is important to the long-term viability of our entire system. and i think that we have to be real about the moment that we're in. it's not just partisanship. we're talking about one party that is against the entire democratic experiment that we're participating in. they're not. >> kimberly. i see you nodding in agreement. have your say. >> yeah, no, i think that's exactly right. i think part of the frustration with the fact that while chairman thompson clearly is working as fast as congress can move to investigate this, the
fact that there is not a clear parallel investigation coming from the justice department and charging people. insurrection is a crime. seditious conspiracy is a crime and we are not seeing that. we are seeing by and large the low hanging fruit, the mostly misdemeanor charges being laid out among the people who breached the capitol that day. it really helps or it hinders really treating this for what it is, the serious moment in our history that almost a year ago and very little accountability has been had that this is really a dangerous point and we need everyone including members of congress, especially members of congress who have information about this to come forward, be transparent. we know some won't, but those who are working with the committee, that's an important step. >> joan, liz cheney, who is also on the january 6th select committee, i don't -- i think her title is vice chair, but she
was on abc and confirmed some of the -- some of the -- some of the work that the committee has done with regard to donald trump. have a listen. >> the committee has firsthand testimony now that he was sitting in the dining room next to the oval office watching the attack on television as the assault on the capitol occurred. we know, as you know well, that the briefing room at the white house is just a mere few steps from the oval office. the president could have at any moment walked those very few steps into the briefing room, gone on live television and told his supporters who were assaulting the capitol to stop. >> you know, joan, that is just one more bit of evidence of something i've been saying for a while, which is the committee, the january 6th select committee, their work has been, you know, putting together 1,000
piece jigsaw puzzle and they've got about at this point like 990 of those pieces in place. i mean, we had heard that then president trump was watching this stuff on tv, but it's a whole different thing when an investigative committee says we know this to be the case. >> well, exactly. i think it's really interesting, jonathan. i think that chairman thompson is being a little bit more holding his cards close to the vest but it's liz cheney that's stepped up on several occasions saying, yeah, we need to subpoena jim jordan. he needs to be here. she read mark meadows, former chief of staff mark meadows texts aloud, the texts that he received, not whatever he sent back, with people -- congress people, journalists imploring him to get the president to make that walk to the briefing room and call his supporters off. and now she's saying this, that they have firsthand knowledge, that means somebody who saw it, somebody who knows, who saw him
listening and perhaps heard him being implored to say something and he didn't do that. so i think we're all fixated on what we don't know, who won't talk to them. we also have to realize we don't know who has talked to them. they should subpoena jim jordan. he wanted to be involved. remember when he wanted to be on the committee. if he wants to be involved, he can voluntarily go over there and testify. that would be great involvement. we should focus on that. we should push for people to be subpoenaed. we should push for them to listen. hold them in contempt. we should also realize they know quite a lot already and these people who think they can get out of being implicated because they don't testify, i think they're going to learn something very different when this report is issued. >> zerlina, i see you nodding. i'm going to give you the last word before we take a break. >> i think at the end of the day we have to be really clear about why this is all happening, jonathan. the united states will be
majority non-white electorate in about 20 years. republicans know that. a lot of what's happening right now is because of that. republicans have become anti-democratic because the democracy that we are growing towards becoming is going to be majority of people of color, non-white voters, and that scares them. we have to be clear when we talk about that. >> that is exactly true. probably the most powerful thing to happen in this country was an innocuous press release that went out from the census bureau in march of 2014 i want to say. somewhere in there. before president obama was out of office saying, just, you know, by 2044 this will be a minority country. folks lost their minds. 30 seconds. i'll give you the last word in this block. >> i think that's an incredibly important point when we're talking about everything from critical race theory to the election lies. where the vote was attempted to
be stopped on january 6th were in places where black, brown, young people voted and gave the white house and congress to democrats and that is what republicans are afraid of. that's under girding all of this and zerlina is right on the money. >> all right. stick around because there's more of "the sunday show" after the break. o man, that's a whole lot of wrinkly at least my shoes look good! looking good start with bounce wrinkleguard, the megasheet designed to prevent wrinkles in the dryer.
. welcome back to "the sunday show." my panel is back with me for one final soundoff lightning round. we started this whole conversation about a half hour ago with harry reid talking about why he did away with the filibuster for executive appointments and lower court judges. zerlina, are there any lessons for democrats in 2022 that they can take from democrats and harry reid in 2013? >> yes, and that's get it done now. don't try to put forward
reasoning about what republicans potentially could do in the future if you nuke the filibuster for voting rights. talk about what they're doing on the state level with republican only votes to suppress the votes of the voters who gave democrats the majority in the first place. that's what they need to be doing. and i'm tired of hearing about this fear of some future potential thing republicans are -- may do. instead of a focus on what they are doing right now to black and brown communities and democrats need to step forward and suck it up. and they need to protect those voters. >> uh-huh. and joan, to zerlina's point about stop worrying about what future thing republicans might do because, to my mind, if republicans take the -- retake control of the senate, what's the first thing mitch mcconnell is going to do when he gets the majority? >> get rid of the filibuster. do everything he can possibly do. and you know, let's name names
here, right? because that's what we do on this show. senator kyrsten sinema is somebody who has repeatedly shown she doesn't understand history. she doesn't understand the history of the filibuster and most recently she has said this. the minute they take power, they will pass -- they will repeal whatever we do in favor of voting rights, pass more laws, disenfranchising black and brown voters. they'll do terrible, terrible things. i think you are a smart woman so you have to know they will do that regardless. so what we need to do, i thought that the way that senator reid handled it was just perfect. it was with complete equinimity. this is fairness. they may do other things. we may not like them. they will have power again. this is basic fairness, what we get to do. i'm sure he wishes he'd goning for thor when he had the opportunity. >> kimberly? >> yeah, and i would urge viewers to go one step further. go to the senate's website itself where it talks about the history of the filibuster and it
says there on the senate's website that the filibuster has been used most often to block civil rights legislation. to try to block voting rights legislation. the civil rights act of 1965 almost didn't pass because of the filibuster. it has never been this mythical instrument of bipartisanship that senator sinema and others claim it to be. it's always been used to obstruct. and senator reid knew that. senator mcconnell knows that and everyone in the senate needs to act accordingly and do away with it. >> the '65 voting rights act. to joan's point, you know -- >> sorry. >> yeah, whatever they might do for voting rights at the federal level, they're already doing at the state level or have already done if you look at georgia or at texas, right, zerlina? >> right. there's been a lot of focus on the voter suppression pieces of the bills that have been passed
in georgia and also in texas. but the -- and arizona. but the more alarming point is the election subversion efforts. the changing of the rules for how the votes are counted after the fact, taking the power away from the secretary of state in arizona, for example. so those are the even more concerning things because that's straight up cheating. that's changing the rules for the way the votes are counted after the fact. even if you allowed federal voting rights -- or allowed for federal voting rights legislation, that passed and protected the access to the ballot, that doesn't matter if the referees are rigging the game and the way the votes are counted is not fair, jonathan. so it's about the entire system from front to back. >> right. and joan, that, to me is the key thing. they've been trying to block people, black people from registering to vote or voting altogether. but this is the first time that they are actually saying, well, we're going to just put people in place who can change the results of the elections if we don't like them.
>> that's right. this has become a major push and it was inspired partly by what donald trump tried to do, by what rudy giuliani tried to do. by what the insurrectionists were telling them to do. different ways that they thought they had, which they didn't have, of changing whose vote mattered, who counted the votes, who certified the votes. they couldn't do it in 2020. they are making sure they can do it in 2024, if donald trump loses again, which, you know, i hope he will. so, right, we cannot be complacent about this, jonathan. i know we're not complacent, but i really wish, i hope that senator reid picked up the phone and gave senator sinema a call before he left us and explained that history to her because she really needs to learn it and learn it fast. >> and kimberly atkins, who if memory serves you just celebrated a first anniversary so i'm going to give you the last minute to have your say. >> first engagementversary.
thank you. haven't had enough coffee yet. i think all of this is right. voting rights is fundamental to everything. what voters voted for in 2020 was undergirded by protecting democracy getting the very things they needed to get through this pandemic and get on the other side of it. that's voting rights and the build back better act. those are the two things democrats don't seem to be getting it together on. i don't see how they expect their base to ever come back to them if they can't deliver on those two things and quickly. it's not just about 2022. it's about well beyond, and they're going to lose that base and it's going to be a generation of loss. >> kimberly atkins-store, joan walsh, zerlina maxwell, thank you all very much for coming back to "the sunday show." and we will be right back. d. um, she's eating the rocket. ♪♪
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thank you at home for watching "the sunday show." i'll be back next sunday at 10:00 a.m. eastern. but stay tuned because my friend alex witt has the latest. >> hey to you and happy new year, my friend. i was making my way into the studio during your last block and i could hear, i think it was kimberly and i was like, wow, i hope people in the dcc and others across the country and democratic leadership are listening to the statements. it was so sobering, that projection about a generational change. some notice, right? >> right.
because the other thing is, not only is democracy on the line overall in the 2022 midterm elections but also the promises made to particularly african american voters by the democratic party and by the president himself on election night. >> 100%. >> you know, you don't do voting rights. you don't have democracy and you lose the base of the democratic party at the time when you need them the most. >> okay. i hope that whole thing gets reverberated around this country. pay attention, folks. thank you. we'll pay attention to you next sunday, my friend. see you then. >> see you then. a very good day to all of you from msnbc world headquarters here in new york. it is high noon here in the east. 9:00 a.m. out west. welcome to "alex witt reports." breaking news in a series of unfolding story lines. first up, new flight disruptions as millions of americans are
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