tv Deadline White House MSNBC January 12, 2022 1:00pm-3:00pm PST
thank you for rolling here. i appreciate you coming on. this is afternoon on the show. ali vitale thank you for scrambling to the camera with the breaking news. that it for us. we will see you tomorrow. and "deadline: white house" will be picking up coverage of this in just a second. be picking up coverage of this ♪♪ hi there, everyone, it is 4:00 in new york, we come on the air with big breaking news a. few moments ago, the january 6th select committee requested information from house republican leader kevin mccarthy. in a letter to mccarthy committee chairman benny thompson rights, quote, we write to request your voluntary cooperation with our investigation on a range of critical topics including your conversations with president trump before, during, and after the violent january 6th attack. you have acknowledged speaking directly with the former president while the violence was underway on january 6th. the letter adds this, quote,
further, you shared an account of your communications with president trump with a local news outlet in your district which recorded that you had a very heated conversation and that you urged the president to quote health get help to the capitol. and blito reported that you shared an even greater degree of detail with your colleagues in a widely-attended conference call on january 11th. on that call, according to the report, you stated that president trump had admitted, quote, some degree of responsibility for january 6th in his one-on-one conversations with you. the letter also cites mccarthy's floor speech in the days after the insurrection, acknowledging that trump bears responsibility for the attack and addresses mccarthy's own culpability in continuing to amplify the expresident's big lie in the wake of the insurrection.
citing his visit to mar-a-lago on january 28th, days before impeachment, posing with donald trump for a photo. and that is where we start today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. luke broad water is here, "new york times" congressional reporter. frank fig luisy former fbi director for counter-intelligence and host of the podcast, the bureau, and tim miller is here, writer at large for the bull work. luke, i start with you. we are going to start on another january 6th development. so it is our good fortune that you are with us. it is possible this was always coming but the moment at which kevin mccarthy is called in to face the chair and vice chair, benny thompson and liz cheney was always going to some billize a single combustible act. what are you hearing so far from the committee side and mccarthy's camp? >> this is just breaking, so i haven't heard back from mccarthy's camp yet. i obviously immediately contacted them. we will see what they have to say.
he has not been i would say receptive to the committee in his public statements in recent weeks and months. obviously, he's railed against the committee. he's argued they are investigating the wrong things. but you know, he does have extremely valuable information here to the committee's investigation. you know, he has told multiple people that he spoke to donald trump on january 6th, and that he, you know, was playing this sort of positive role where he was telling him to call off the violence and condemn it and trump apparently responded that, you know, i guess these people are more angry than you are, kevin. so i think they want to hear about that. they want to hear about the conversations that he had with president trump in the days afterward, especially this admission that president trump knew that he had something to do with the violence. and so we will have to wait and
see what kevin mccarthy does in response to this. but as of right now, this is just a request for an interview and not a subpoena. so if he does reject it, if he does refuse to come in, then we will have to see what the committee does at that stage. >> luke, you make a great point. i just want to focus our conferring on this time line between january 6th and that mar-a-lago trip because that's probably the period that the committee -- the committee's interested in january 6th to january 79:kevin mccarthy not as much, but january 8th and on because that kevin mccarthy tried to kill a bipartisan commission after sending one of his deputies john katko in to negotiate one. but january 6th and january 7th mccarthy knew exactly what had done on. i believe a transcript or some recording of that call with mccarthy and others was submitted in the senate
impeachment trial jammy that raro butler and never really knocked down at accurate. i wonder if you can indicate what happened behind the scenes in kevin mccarthy's world between january 6th and the mar-a-lago trip? >> that's an issue of great contention within the republican conference. liz cheney has identified that as a singular moment, in her view, when the -- when donald trump was brought back into the fold of the republican party. my understanding is that kevin mccarthy made a political calculation and that he wanted to be speaking if republicans take back the house. and he believed, with his lay of the lands, that he could not do that without donald trump's support. so even though he had condemned him on the house floor and said he was responsible for the violence, even though he had had these one-on-one conversations with president trump trying to
call off the mob, he decided it would be best to get an endorsement from trump, to be seen as an ally once again. so he went down to mar-a-lago. and in ms. cheney's view that help rehabilitate donald trump and make it okay again to go back to trump. and so, in her view, that sent the party down the path once again where we see it today where we now have much of the party denying what happened on january 6th or embracing wild theories that it was somehow not republicans or not trump supporters who did it. >> >> from, luke just, i think -- >> frank, luke just, i think put his finger on an important piece of information that's beyond dispute. kevin mccarthy made a political calculation that to be speaker he could not pursue the truth in the way he did on the floor on sixth. in the way liz cheney is doing
today. mike schmidt is doing reporting on mike pence who is ostensibly hiding behind the sense that the committee is considering a deferral to d.o.j. to say no, no, no, i am not going to talk to them. the thing that stands between mccarthy and pence telling the truth is political ambition. is our justice department, law enforcement, institutional hard wiring suited to get the truth from people like that? >> i -- i would be less than truthful if i said to you that i had a high degree of confidence that d.o.j. is set up in all about getting to this. look, this is virtually an unprecedented challenge. you do have to go back to watergate to get anything close to this level of challenge with regard to d.o.j. it can be done. but, look, mccarthy and others are now facing essentially three roads ahead of them.
they can do the right thing for their country. we have not seen evidence of that, particularly with mccarthy's public stance about this committee. it's not credible, he doesn't really think it is bipartisan, these are not really republicans, cheney, and kinzinger on there. doing right thing for the country to get to the truth -- unlikely from mccarthy. second road in front of them, do the right thing for yourself criminally in terms of exposing yourself. right now this request seems to be mostly about the president, not a lot about mccarthy, but he can't rule out the possibility that d.o.j. is looking at this, that the committee may make a referral, if he voluntarily makes statements that incriminate himself he is essentially waiving his rights here. third path, to the right thing for the president. allegiance is to the party, to the former president, and nobody
there wants him to testify truthfully to the committee. my thoughts right now, you won't see him show up or you will see very limited parameters for what he is willing to say. >> for people who haven't seen this in a while, tim miller, this is what kevin mccarthy of january 6th believed or pretended to believe on january 6th. he said this, quote, the president's bears responsibility for wednesday's attack on congress by mob rioters. kevin mccarthy talking. he should have immediately denounced the mob when he saw what was unfolding. kevin mccarthy goes on to say this. these facts require immediate actions by president trump. accept his share of responsibility, quell the brewing unrest, and ensure president-elect biden is able to successfully begin his term. then kevin mccarthy said this, tim. what we saw last week was not the american way. neither is the continued rhetoric that joe biden is not the legitimate president. let's be clear, joe biden will be sworn in as president of the united states in one week
because he won the election. end quote from kevin mccarthy. has kevin mccarthy said that since? >> don't think so. maybe he said joe biden is president but none of the parts about donald trump being responsible. here's the important thing i would like to add onto that quote, nicolle. that isn't just political rhetoric. a lot of us can imbue the notion that donald trump was responsible for january 6th. of course many many public signs that point that direction. his behavior points to responsibility. a lot of politicians said that he had responsibility on both sides of the aisle at least in that first week. kevin mccarthy is different because he has direct evidence that donald trump knew he was responsible. i think that is the important thing about that phone call, the one that jamie herrera butler testified to, that he just referenced in the second impeachment trial, you know, where -- where trump told mccarthy essentially that he is on the side the domestic terrorists to use a phrase ted
cruz used, that he is on the side of the people who were storming the capitol, and that it was kevin who was the one that was wrong because he wasn't willing to stick with trump like the supposed great patriots that stormed our capitol in an attempt to overlow the election were, to the same degree that they were. i think that that phone call is extremely relevant because it gets to not just what is publically available that let us know that donald trump is responsible for january 6th. but there is proof there is direct evidence that in donald trump's mind he knew he was responsible and he continued to act the way he did. that's why mccarthy's testimony is so foreign. the man that organized brian jack, the effort in the house to try to overturn the election, that whipped the 100 some-odd republicans to take away the lawful votes of people in a number of swing states is brian
jack, the point main in the white house for this. he is now kevin mccarthy's political director. even within mccarthy's current staff it is not only mccarthy who is complicit and has to testify, he has other people on his staff who have direct material evidence that's relevant to the january 6th committee. i think that also plays into his calculation on what to do because it will impact what those who work for him do. >> that's a remarkable 2k5i8. i don't know where the coup plotters went with the -- sort the monster.com coup plotters. i'm free. it didn't work out. hire me. but jamie raskin made clear on this program that the third ring they are investigating is the actual plot to everyturn the votes that day. that includes the eastman memo, that includes everyone who was involved in trying to turn the electors to vote in the a way that didn't line up with the votes in their states. and i wonder if you can speak to whether the efforts after
january 6th -- whether the sort of machinations and conversations with the people who plotted the coup, people involved with jeffrey clark, people bringing eastman into the west wing, whether those folks are being examined by the 1/6 committee. >> oh, yes, definitely. i mean this -- the plot to overturn the election in congress is the very reason for the mob's existence. right? >> right. >> if there is not a plan to target january 6th, if the trump efforts to challenge the election ended in the courts, we wouldn't have had a rally, we wouldn't have had a mob. right? so if they had said, you know what, the courts ruled, will it's stop there, we lost, we tried 60 times. we failed 60 times. good game, congratulations president biden, there would have been no rally and no crowd. but because they decided they were going to embrace these
legal theories where mike pence could throw out votes and republican congressmen could install trump instead of biden through a misreading of the electoral count act, and because so many people didn't want to do it -- mike pence didn't want to do it, the -- many of the republican senators didn't want to go along with that, they thought, well, we could have this crowd at the ellipse, and it can march down to the capitol, and it can put pressure on the republican members of congress. and they will see their voters out there demanding they side with trump instead of with the voters, the will of the people. so that's the whole reason for the rally, then, of course, the question s when does that turn violent? and who is -- who is to blame for that? yes, they as part of the same investigation, just different avenues. >> frank i went back and looked at how the 9/11 commission
presented their three rings. intelligence failures, that includes the declassified versions of the pdb that the president of the united states and everyone else was looking at. then there was the plot itself, what bin laden was doing, who he dispatched, what they were able to do in america, from ata's flight lessons and whatnot. it's all there in the 9/11 report. i wonder, you start to think about the committee's end game. they are heading into the public phase. they have to be thinking about their report already. how would you put the plotting of the coup, kevin mccarthy's singular knowledge of donald trump's knowledge of it, and the viewpoint from donald trump jr., laura ingram, sean hannity, kevin mccarthy, and everyone who talked to him that day, that one person could flip a stwich and tend violence. how do you think that ends up going into a report like the one the committee is doing? it is not an indictment. it is not a criminal
prosecution. it is not a charging document. it is a narrative explanation of an attack on the seat of government. >> yeah. i -- look, we are all hoping for the comprehensive telling of the story. so this need not, as you say, look like a prosecutive report, but, rather, tell us the whole story as best as you could get to it. that will have to necessarily include people who seemed to know in advance what was going to happen. you know, let's continue the 9/11 analogy. those of us in the intelligence community at that time were being told, something big is going to happen. you will remember, nicolle, talk of the chatter. there is chatter. the bad guys are talking about something eye on couldic, it is going to be big, it is going to happen to us. but we don't know what it is. all of those people you mentioned were in communications with the president before it happened. i see a different story, people seemed to have something ugly was going to happen and seemed
to have known it with specificity. i have a bad feeling about the next 48 hours says someone on fox. they knew there was going to be violence. they didn't want to be attached to it. that's the difference. we need to hear that. and the committee needs to tell us that. >> tim, so much is known, and so much of the audacity of trumpism is that all the corrupt acts took part in public. it was part of their -- it had two intentions it would seem, one was to normalize outrageous behavior in the eyes of their base. and two was secondality. i told them to to the right thing. they chanted "hang mike pence" that's not on me. what is the connective tissue of what frank is talking about, clearly the committee's effort to understand premeditation -- what did sean hannity mean when he said the next 48 hours are going to be really bad?
what did some of the extremist groups say when they said i am out of here? i warned of violence and meadows didn't do a thing. what is going to knit together the premeditation and then donald trump's conduct during the 18 minutes. >> it is always a line in political scandals the cover-up is worse than the trump. trump avoided that by just doing the crime right out in public. this goes back to the emails. russia, if you are listening, send the emails. my view was always that the whole inclusion debate never matter at that point because he said the inclusion out in the open. he wanted a foreign government to hack his opponent's emails. there was no need to try to find a secret cover-up. that connects to now. so that's a challenge for the january 6th committee. i think that there is -- there are two things that we don't know that they can tell us. one is a tick tock of what the president as doing that day.
i don't know if it was a smoking gun or we should set up expectations there was a spoking gun but the public deserves to know what happened in the first moments when he learned the white house was breached all the way up to when he put out that pathetic video. that was many, many hours. what was happening with sending in the guard. what was the president saying privately to kevin mccarthy? as much as we can know about that to demonstrate beyond a shadow of a doubt his complicity and his knowledge that he was being complicity in that attack on the capitol i think is better, is good. also, we don't contactually now -- if you move to congress, how direct was paul gosar and mel brooks and these guys, how closely would they working with the alexander type asks the oath keepers and the on the ground troops that had premeditated action to violence, these domestic terrorism groups.
and then there is mccarthy telling the narrative and letting the chips fall -- i don't know that we should have the expectations that will change the political calculus around this. i think a lot of people saw this and decided they are okay with it. and that's a problem in our country. and that the january 6th shouldn't worry about that. they should try to get as much as they can get out and uncover as much as left uncovered. >> what is interesting when we talk about how fearful mccarthy was with his president -- and that video of them being rushed out -- i traveled with the president for five years and never was rushed like that by super service. to republicans -- they didn't go back to their offices. they were in hiding. they were in hiding as well.
the white house was never locked down. i worked in the white house after 9/11, so maybe the security consideration were different but there was never a change in the security ps posture at the white house. i wonder, luke, what sort of security questions kevin mccarthy's testimony arouses. does he make clear that they were really scared? does kevin mccarthy's testimony affirm that trump knew from mccarthy that they really needed help calling off the trump supporters? i mean, what does committee need to hear from kevin mccarthy? >> those are all good questions. the one thing they are really trying to get at here, this was brought up in federal court in some civil lawsuits recently, was -- is trumped refusal to call off the mob evidence of agreement with the mob, that he wanted this, this was actually his intention?
because there is still this matter of debate of whether trump actually wanted violence that day. he says "fight like held health". he also says at one point and republicans will repeat this part of the speech forever, peacefully and patriotically. so you hear these debates. if you can get to more evidence of as he's watching the mob storm the capitol that he -- this is actually what he wants, that this was his intention, then now he's opened up for being held accountable in other ways, whether threw civil litigation, a criminal referral from the committee, things like that. so if they can get more information from kevin mccarthy, who was on the phone with him during it, talks to him about it afterwards, i think that would be the primary goal this interview and communications that they are seeking. of course there is lots of other things they could be interested in as well. why did kevin mccarthy continue
with the objections to the certification of the election after republicans, democrats alike fled the building under the threat of violence as someone was shot in the hallway by a capitol police officer and people were banging on the doors and guns were drawn and police are being booten, why after that did he choose to come back in and object to the election? i think they want to ask him political questions as well as the questions around trump's state of nine. >> breaking news. the january 6th committee has asked kevin mccarthy to come in val terrell. the hill team is reporting when asked if they would consider a subpoena chairman benny thompson said this, quote, let me say we will consider it but we think he will voluntarily come forward. our guests are sticking around. when we come back, there was
more news today from the january 6th select committee having to debunk outlandish conspiracy theories as they make their way into the u.s. senate peddled by one lawmaker. plus, new developments in court today that could be a sign that the walls are closing in on one of the far right wing stringiest lawmakers, republican matt gaetz. >> come up later in the program, the fight to keep schools over despite a third winter now of rising covid cases and hospitalizations. all those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. eadline: whit continues after a quick break. continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire (vo) this year, t-mobile for business is here to help you hit the ground running.
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it would appear the january 6th select committee has added another urge end task to its already packed slate, real time rapid response, debunking the most dangerous and fringiest far right conspiracy theories as they make their way into the discussion about january 6th, including in the u.s. senate. yeah. inside the u.s. senate. the latest disinformation emergency comes perhaps unsurprisingly from one ted cruz, who is on an apology tour at the tucker carlson show. it came up at a judiciary hearing yesterday with top d.o.j. officials. as the conspiracy theory he spouted yesterday again in the senate goes, a man named ray epps caught her on video on the eve of january 6th urging trump supporters to go inside the capitol building. the conspiracy theory goes that
it's actually an fbi informant doing that who was working with the government for the purpose of provoking violence. we are going to play ted cruz's rant for the purpose of showing you how this disinformation goes seamlessly from ted cruz to tucker carlson, and then saturates the base. again, this is b.s. >> well, there are a lot of people who are concerned about mr. epps. on the night of january 5th, 2021, epps wandered around the crowd that had gathered. there is video out there of him chanting, tom we need to get into the capitol, into the capitol. this was strange behavior, so strange, that the crowd began chant, fed, fed, fed, fed, fed, fed. >> ted cruz of course there debases himself if there is any self less to debase. more importantly he debases the
truth in the united states senate. none of that was truthful, philip bump tracks in the "washington post." how we got there yesterday. measured in fox news air time there is perhaps no january 6th conspiracy theory more popland lumbar than the idea that federal agents helped spur the violence that overwhelmed the capitol on january 6th, 2021. and within that particular theory, no individual has received more attention than ray epps. here is tucker carlson on the un-year anniversary of the insurrection broadcasting this bogus theory to his millions of devoted viewers, again, without any facts to make up his claims. this, too, b.s. >> there is a man called ray epps who was a longtime conservative activist. he was captured on camera at least three times, possibly more, encouraging people on january 6th and the day before, january 6th eve, january 5th, encouraging protesters to storm
the capitol. he was on the fbi most wanted list. now he's not. attorney general refused to answer the question. no one has answered the question. again, this is not a conspiracy theory. it's a lumt mat question. why won't they answer it? and what's the answer? >> so tucker carlson, meet the 1/6 committee. they have answered the question. it is a conspiracy theory, not grounded in truth. and the january 6th committee debunked it. in a few sentence in a short statement yesterday with this statement, quote, the select committee say wear of unsupported claims that ray epps was an fbi informant based on the fact that he was on the fbi wanted list and then was removed from that list without being charged. the select committee has interviewed mr. epps, mr. epps informs us that they was not employed by, working with, or acting at the direction of any law enforcement agency on january 5th, january 6th, or at any other time, and that he has never been an informant for the
fbi or any other law enforcement agency. as the january 6th select committee member adam kinzinger yesterday put it, one more ted cruz conspiracy down. association crazies, it ain't true. we are back with our panel, luke broad water, frank fig luisy, and tim miller. frank, why does this story matter? >> for a number of reasons. one, it does get to how false information is spreading to try to obscure what really happened on january 6th. and the case of ray epps exemplifies -- or is a good example of that. he -- he does have an interesting case, right? because he is doing things that are wrong. write? he is urging people to go into the capitol on january 5th and
on january 6th. he says, he may be arrested for urging people to do this. but the case is murky in the eyes of law enforcement because it doesn't appear from video that he himself ever goes into the capitol or commits any violence. est those are the two main reasons they have been charging hundreds of rioters. i think you could make a charge against ray epps at some part of the investigation. that's for the justice department to decide. right now, it is just someone urging others to march on the capitol and go in, his situation isn't that different from people who spoke at the ellipse, told people that -- rudy giuliani telling people to have trial by combat or mow brooks telling people to kick ass and take names or whatever he told, donald trump telling people to fight like hell. so he's using language to encourage and incite the mob.
but if that's a crime -- it could be. i'm not a legal expert. then perhaps others are open for similar -- for similar justice. as of right now, the january 6th committee interviewed him, said he's not an fbi informan, said he's not an undercover federal agent and said maybe this is a use neek or weird case but not evidence of some vast conspiracy that the federal government was trying to take over congress. >> frank, when i was young i watched schoolhouse rock, how a bill becomes a lie, and now i am intent on discovering how a lie becomes a truth to the maga base. i know tim spends a lot of time on this space. for that i am grateful and sorry. frank, in your view what is this case about, what is it not about? how does it get so much life?
is there more the fbi can do to knock these stories down before they take hold in front of so many people? >>s that fascinating tale of how a lie grabs certain segments of the public. but in this case look you have already traced the thread from tucker carlson, fox news, right to ted cruz. and it becomes legitimatized the moment somebody on the senate starts repeating the nonsense. we are prooig trying to apply lodge tiktok lunacy. how anyone could believe -- let me see if i got the conspiracy theory right. the republican head of the fbi, appointed by trump who answers at the time to trump appointed d.o.j. officials decided for grins it would be a great idea to throw a riot at the capitol and try to turn the rally into a riot. who could we have do that? do we have somebody available? it would be great to get the head of the oath keepers in
arizona to do it. he wants to fly in the idle of winter to the capitol. let's get him to do that. well, the problem, sir, he's not an informant. e trump is leaving in two weeks. why would we do that? i don't know, but it would be fun. how about we plant text messages pretending to be don jr. how about we rent a hotel room and call it a war room for the insurrection. did they do that, did they get trump to say let's march together and fight. did they get rudy guiliani together to say let's fight? did they do that? as long as the committee keeps investigating those sobl for the insurrection, as long as they keep doing that, the fbi will be the target. >> tim, i know you spend a lot of time listening to steve
bannon's sort of toxic stream the investigation. i don't know if that's even the opening act in terms of the diet, the media diet being fed to trump's base. epps is interesting. he was there. he did tell people to go into the capitol. he hasn't been arrested because it is not proven he witness so far to go in and commit violence. but tucker carlson and his lackey ted ruz projected this out to the entire trump base who probably believe these lies about the fbi. how do you catch it earlier in the cycle? >> you need to, because, you said earlier this was rapity respond. it wasn't really. it was rapid response to ted cruz elevating it to the senate. i am happy that the january 6th committee came forward. but this conspiracy has been purk percolating for weeks. it again in the dregs of the right wing ecosystem darren
beattie, used to work at the trump white house, now a blogger, he was a pusher of this, he was on bannon's podcast, which i suffered through 16 hours last week: sometimes they do -- sometimes there is a tendency between responsible actors to say i don't want to elevate an untruth. i understand that. that was conventional wisdom in p.r. 20 years ago. we doerchlt want to elevate something that isn't true or accurate. it could give it more attention. but these days the untruths become true in the right wing ecosystem faster than you can snap your fingers. so you need to address them immediately and push back immediately or they take on a life of their own and people will never let go of them. to answer your question of how the lies become true, in the conspiracy world the issue of motivated reasoning becomes
powerful. we to use this piece of information and confirm our priors, our beliefs and make what we already think seem true and make the other side seem bad. if you want a stir about january 6th, and somebody -- you don't want to think, my team, the maga guys, we were the ones who stormed the capitol. we killed cops. we are domestic terrorists, we are the bad guys -- you don't want to think about yourselves as the bad guys. right? when someone tells us actually it was antifa, okay. ga. actually, the fbi did it. okay. great. the people who are consuming the information don't think about it like frank did, they don't think about the obvious logic of the fact that if an fbi informant was at the women's march standing there with a pink hat saying let's charge the white house and stop donald trump nobody would have charged the white house. they would look at this person like they are crazy. even if the conspiracy was true it would have no accountability on the people that stormed the
company. because an undercover person tells to do something bad that doesn't mean you can do them cart blarchl. but people don't think about it like that because they are looking for any way to get themselves off the hook. this is why it needs to be combatted aggressively and the democrats and the administration needs to reconsider a little bit the tactics in dealing with these sortsds of things. >> yeah, i think the 1/6 committee -- you are right. it was out there before they dealt with and it put out their short statement. 24 hours ago. it came out during this hour yesterday. it followed an interview that they did. but you are right, there are a whole lot of news cycles between their interview with mr. epps and this percolating on fox news for many many months. luke broad water, frank if i luisy, you planned to spend fewer than 40 minutes with us. we are grateful to both of you for sticking arnold. tim sticks around longer. congressman matt gaetz may be one step closer to an
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♪ i see trees of green ♪ it shortens colds! ♪ red roses too ♪ ♪ i see them bloom for me and you ♪ (music) ♪ so i think to myself ♪ ♪ oh what a wonderful world ♪ does matt gaetz have anything to worry about. >> does matt gaetz -- that is such a -- i am sure matt gaetz is not feeling comfortable today. >> that was back in april. it may turn out to be an early warn forth the florida congressman. last april, that was fritz sheller. he's a lawyer for confessed
fraudster and sex trafficker goal greenberg who you remember is the former florida tax collector and one-time close confidante of florida congressman matt gaetz. he has been cooperating in a federal investigation into the alleged activities of matt gaetz for a long time. now, after many months of silence in that case there is major breaking news today that could signal where the investigation is actually heading. gaetz's exgirlfriend, whose name is being withheld by nbc fuss. >> to protect her privacy gave testimony today to a federal grand jury after months of talks of an immupity deal for her. her testimony indicates gaetz is moving closer to being indicted with three crimes including sex trafficking. gaetz has they are been charged with any crime and denies all
allegations. joining us, marco caputo, and katie fang. mark, tell me about your scoop. >> i think you summed it up well. it is a bad day for matt gaitsz. for a while a lot of his supporters and people in his orbit thought, look, this investigation is going nowhere because it basically stalled. one of the reasons it stalled is joel grooel greenberg is a problematic witness. the alleged victim in the case not as problematic, but she is currently an on line pornography worker. i don't know the right phrase is maybe porn star. it is questionable whether that could be brought up at trial if it goes to trial, if he does get indicted. nevertheless there could be problems some jurors could have with her as a witness as well. they want more evidence. enter gaetz's exgirlfriend. they were in an open or
polyamorous relationship for some time and she was with him when he was alleged by so far anonymous accuse e greenberg among them that he had had sex with a 17-year-old in 2017. she was also with him on a bahamas trip where a bunch of friends of gaetz's and her friends went -- this is being examined to see if it violated the mann act which prohibits taking people across state lines to engage in prostitution. she was also on the phone with him and another woman who is a witness in the case where investigators believe gaetz may have obstructed justice. and she may have helped him. and that has come to a head here, we believe. we are basing it on sources and also just the timing of it, where she was facing a potential obstruction of justice charge, gets a's ex, in return for her not being charged with that, it appears she is close to f not has already struck an immunity deal to give testimony in return
for not being charged. so at the three charges that gaetz faces potentially are sex trafficking a minor, in this case, it is having sex with a 17-year-old where money changed hands. obstruction of justice relative to the phone call we were discussing and violating the mann act or conspiring to violate the mann act. again he has strenuously said he is innocent, hasn't committed any of these crimes. he hasn't been charged yet. we have to wait and see. >> this is the poll you highlighted on your twitter feed katie. after the investigation began, gaetz spoke with his exofficials friend in a three-way call with yet another woman who was cooperating with federal investigators at that point and was secretly recording the call according to two sources familiar with the case. it is on that call that gaetz is suspected of obstructing justice. why is it sort this cumulative sort of legal exposure that
represents so much peril for matt gaetz, katie? >> well, because, nicolle, sometimes the cover-up is worse than the crime. you know, mark really kind of succinctly talks about some of the credibility problems that the federal government may have with some of its key witnesses in a case for prosecution against matt gaetz. joel greenberg, the professed wing man of matt gaetz, he pled guilty the lying and fraud and basically a lot of crimes that speak to his lack of truthfulness. and so you want to get witnesses when you are prosecuting a case that are hopefully above this type of reproach. in this instance, one of the three crimes that the grand jury is looking at concerning matt gaetz is an obstruction of justice charge of. it's the idea that during this 2021 call did matt gaetz and his exgirlfriend participate in some kind of witness taemperring, this idea that they were trying to prevent the prosecution or
investigation into some of these crimes. what is really important -- people may have forgotten because the investigation has been going on for so long -- a couple of critical time things. one, the fed's seized matt gaetz's cell phone in december of 2020. gaits and. 2020. gaits and. and there are no further delays in sentencing according to the federal judge. so everything seems to be tightening in terms of the news for matt gaetz. a grand jury is made up of 23 members. you only need 12 of them to find probable cause to indict. only 12. none of is witnesses going into this grand jury, they don't have lawyers going in with them and there's no defense attorney
there for matthew gaetz. so it's the prosecution presenting its evidence and trusting that 12 people can determine if there's probable cause and a crime was committed and that gaetz was the person who committed those crimes. >> it's the best window into the confidence the feds have against gaetz. the disgraced ex-president gets pushback from a truth teller for peddling the big lie. we'll show it to you, next. the . we'll show it to you, next people everywhere living with type 2 diabetes are waking up to what's possible... with rybelsus®. the majority of people taking rybelsus® lowered their blood sugar and reached an a1c of less than 7. rybelsus® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes.
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>> why did republican officials in arizona accept the results then? >> go into detroit and just ask yourself is it true there are more votes than there are voters? look at pennsylvania. philadelphia? is it true there were far more votes than they were voters? >> it is not true that there were -- >> that's a pretty tough problem. >> it is not true that there were far more votes than voters. >> the only way it's not going to happen again is you have to solve the problem of the presidential rigged election of 2020. >> mr. president, one more question, i want to ask about a court hearing yesterday on january 6th. judge meta. he's gone, okay. >> he's gone. i wish. you know, it's so interesting just back to your point, tim, about what to do about truth resistant folks. what is the opposite calculation? why does he go somewhere where they only deal with the truth
like npr? >> well, i think that's you know, we need a psychiatrist for this, nicolle, but it's the empty hole in his heart related to his dad. needs to be loved. this is a man that has always wanted love and affirmation. that is central to his brand and so i truly believe that he thinks he can use the trump style to talk over these folks. the problem is with 1/6, he's so deep in the bubble. on the bannon podcast, they don't challenge him so he has this ability to say complete falsehoods that are devoid from reality. it's not like when he was in the white house when there was a little reality that he'd have to respond to. now he's cloistered at
mar-a-lago where there's only yes men and women, only doing yes men and women media. it's a reality check when you go into this npr and think you can say these lies and that they will work and you realize oh, wait, you know, over here in the reality-based community, they have the responses to these lies because they've been engaged in the facts and you know, that have followed the lies for the last 12 months. >> it is amazing. it's amazing to see. thank you for spending some time with us today. the next hour of deadline white house starts after a quick break. don't go anywhere. eadline white house starts after a quick break. break. don't go anywhere. but we did agree this rug was perfect. okay. stop being weird. mom and daughter agreeing on something. wayfair works miracles! ooh! check this one out. this chair is so comfortable. it puts both of my babies to sleep. look at you making a space that works perfectly for all of you!
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growing up in a little red house, on the edge of a forest in norway, there were three things my family encouraged: kindness, honesty and hard work. over time, i've come to add a fourth: be curious. be curious about the world around us, and then go. go with an open heart, and you will find inspiration anew. viking. exploring the world in comfort.
it's hard to process what's actually happening right now, which is most people are going to get covid. all right, and what we need to do so make sure the hospitals can still function. transportation. other essential services are not disrupted while this happens. i think after that will be a good time to reassess how we're approaching this pandemic. >> hi, again, everyone. a blunt and unwelcome declaration uttered by the head of the fda. quote, most people are going to get covid, she said. maybe a reality check looming over our third winter of this pandemic as the desire to keep children in school collides with the nationwide surge in cases and rising hospitalizations due to the omicron variant. parents, school officials, and teachers all across the country are grappling right now with the
question, what is best for kids and their teachers right now. students in chicago returned to their classrooms today after a dispute between the teachers union and city officials resulted in classes being canceled for one week. in brooklyn, new york, about 200 high schoolers walked out of their school yesterday demanding remote learning be offered. students in oakland, california, have threatened to strike anot attend in-person classes unless the district returns to remote learning or complies with a list of health and testing demands. as more teachers and staffers get sick, some schools are desperate for help. in miami, coaches, administrative staff have filled in for teachers. in texas, a school district asked parents apply to become substitute teachers. through all of the questions, the president of the american federation of teachers has remained unequivocal, saying schools must remain open. he says this, quote, kids, our
society, our communities need very much to do whatever we can to create normalcy. whether it's kids learning, isolation issues, whether it's the economy, too much depends on functioning schools. she adds this is the hardest situation she has ever faced as a union leader. more reporting from "the new york times" details the struggles schools are facing to keep up with testing. one of the key measures that enabled them to keep their doors opened, quote, slammed by the ultra contagious omicron variant, pressured by political factions, baffled by conflicting federal guidance, and ham strung by a national shortage of rapid test kits, many districts have struggled to ramp up or effectively establish testing programs. in many areas, schools have already had to close in recent weeks because flawed screenings have allowed infected students and teachers to return to class putting others at risk. today, an announcement from the white house to address some of those concerned.
here's the white house coronavirus response coordinator. >> today, we're taking additional actions including sending 5 million free rapid tests to schools each month. and providing another 5 million lab-based tests each month. these ten million additional tests available each month will allow schools to double the volume of testing they were performing in november. >> education secretary miguel cardona was asked this morning about the feasibility of providing schools with ten million free tests each month. >> the president made it clear that through the defense act that there's going to be higher production of tests. we're prioritizing our schools. we recognize schools are the hubs of the community. that we should not be closing our schools as dr. walenski said. you're going to see distribution of tests as early as next week to make sure they stay open. >> new assistance from the white house in a push to keep schools open is where we start this
hour. randi, also founding director of the national center for disaster preparedness at columbia university and eugene daniels. randi, how are teachers doing right now? >> you know, people are afraid. and spent. and really anxious, but they're showing up in schools. i was in a school in washington, d.c. this morning and with -- addison and teachers are some of the most, teachers are nurses and doctors and dr. redliner was with us yesterday on a town hall. they're some of the most amazing people in life. but they're anxious and you know, when they hear an fda commissioner saying you're all going to get covid, you know, that throws a lot of fear in people, but the key is, and this
is what teachers want and this is why we welcome what you know the biden administration announced today, is that we want to make sure that as we're doing our jobs to help kids learn, recover, create some normalcy in people's lives, that our kids and our educators are as protected as they can be and that's why the testing, the well fitting masks, and we keep going back to please, please, please vaccinate, boost so that god forbid you have covid, it's going to be a less serious case than if you're not vaccinated or boosted. so that's why we keep pushing for masks, vaccines, ventilation, boosting, and
testing. >> so i'm in a studio in my place of work and every day, i take a rapid test and twice a week, i take a pcr test to keep everybody i keep in contact with and a lot of people safe. none of them are children or teachers in charge of other children, why, what have you been told is the explanation for every public school not having the resources i have here? why isn't that the case as we enter the third year of the pandemic? >> so, that same level of anger you just displayed with me about this, i say all the time. because testing, since last january, we have pushed for testing as a key ingredient and the bottom line is there's just not been enough tests that have
been produced. both the lab-based tests, the pcrs, but also the antigens. and the really good news, and that's why this what happened today is important, but the really good news is that with omicron, antigen tests and dr. redline will tell you, there's a lot of false negatives, but they can help you know whether you are positive with covid or not. it's a good way of dealing with outbreaks. surveillance testing, the pcr testing, is a good way of being table to see where our schools are. that's why we're begging parents, please consent to it so we can do 10% of testing for kids throughout the country. but you know the answer to that, which is corporate america can do the stuff that they need to do to protect people and we don't have the resources in schools or the will in schools to match the need that we have,
which is keeping our schools functioning. >> i guess what, we've been talking over two years and you know my journey. my son's school has been opened really the whole pandemic except that first spring and it is heroic that teachers will go into schools. it is mind boggling to me that public schools don't have access to all the testing. it's just out of whack. like keeping bars and gyms open and closing schools at the beginning of the pandemic. what i'm trying to understand is you've got the commitment from the president. you've gotten the first lady, someone who's in a classroom herself as first lady, where is the disconnect? is it supply chain? money? what is the problem today? >> it's supply chain. it's money. it's the fact that all of these testing companies, you know, the moment that i think the moment that everyone felt like that the vaccines were working and may,
june, and may, june, and maybe the beginning of july, that covid was over. and then you had abbott, these other testing companies, think just suspended production on all of this stuff. and so they're ramping up right now, but it's not enough. and on top of that, you have a whole public health infrastructure that's never been funded enough and never set up enough to be able to be the back testing systems on the pcr surveillance testing. that's why you have these huge, long lines in states right now and that's why you almost got to complete dysfunction by the middle of december. i think the biden administration is really trying to ramp up as best as they can, but this is a matter of the testing companies did not make manufacture tests anymore so we're really catching
up and we need them for this moment of time. >> doctor, i want to ask you to sort of lay out some facts. i mean, i find it distressing that the number, the vaccination rate among 5 to 11-year-olds and it's my understanding that in terms of the children who are hospitalized, i think the number of children hospitalized aged 0 to 17, seven-day average is 861. it's up 27.4%. the last time i dug into those numbers, i think about 1% was vaccinated. is it still holding true that vaccinated children are not making up the numbers of those administered, being admitted to the hospital? >> yeah, nicolle. so we have a number of big problems in confluence here and i think let's start off with this issue of what does covid
represent as a threat for children? what's the reality now? and the problem in part is that this is an ever-changing situation. we're just in a sea of uncertainty and confusion. part of it is generated by ourselves and our leaders. by messaging failures and mess ups that are hard to understand. but we also need to understand that the decide itself, this covid virus is a wily little organism that is changing constantly. what we thought about the consequences for children in the beginning of this pandemic was very different than what we know about today. like you said, we're having a very significant uptick in cases among kids, including hospitalizations and to some degree, fatalities. and second of all, even the cdc has recently put out some reports that are suggesting that children who actually get covid
are more susceptible to certain diseases like in fact diabetes. but all that aside, i think we are, you know, we're in a war now with this disease and deep in the fog of war when it comes to dealing with the pandemic. a lot of it has to do with the behavior of the virus, which is mysterious on many levels and the second thing is it's compounded by real messaging flubs that we're seeing out of the federal government. but in terms of what we need to do now, as randi said, it is essential for us to keep the schools open. and how we do that no matter what's going on with the virus, is number one, really push for mandates to make sure that every human being in a school building, adults, teachers, staff members, and students who are eligible, get vaccinated. that has got to happen. and the second thing is that i
don't know why we don't have enough tests available. it's really randi laid out the reasons why. but i'm a little shocked, i must say, that after all this time, we haven't gotten our act together to make sure we have the basic fundamental supplies that we need to deal with the pandemic and i'm hoping that you know, we have enough ppe and respirators and all those things that were in short supply. last year. now, hopefully those are in stockpiles. it should have been the case with testing, also. the companies that make the tests should not have been allowed under the defense production act to stop producing these tests. it's clear that we're going to need these tests for the long haul. >> i want to just put one more thing that i think is on a lot of people's minds. we don't really do a great job talking about it, but there's been great reporting about it. something teachers understand and parents are being confronted with it now more than ever. this is reporting in npr about
kids and mental health issues. schools across the country are overwhelmed with k-12 students struggling with mental health problems. according to school staff, pediatricians and mental healthcare workers. many kids who developed symptoms didn't get help right away because they were away from school staff who might have spotted symptoms early on. pre-pandemic, schools were kind of like the first responders with respect to students' mental health issues. according to massachusetts superintendent. teachers and other school staff would spot changes in behavior and connect those kids to help. but that proved harder in a virtual learning environment. i think that's some of the sort of hard wired ptsd that kids and parents and teachers have about the you hear remote and some instance, i think right now, a year ago, 46% of schools were in person. now it's like 96% and we have
more covid than ever before. some of that obviously recognizes the toll it's taken on kids, but i wonder, doctor, your concerns as we sort of acknowledge those mistakes in messaging and try to transition our kids from wash your hands so you don't get covid, so everyone's going to get it. it just came out of the head of the fda's mouth the other day. sounds like it may be true, but we haven't prepared our kids. everyone's going to get covid. miss five to ten days of school. >> right. and there's about 140,000 who have lost at least one parent or guardian to covid. and that's a long-term grieving problem, but the fact of the matter, as you're implying, is that the mental health issues are the underrecognized time bomb for this covid pandemic because these mental health issues are going to be around
for a very long time. one of the problems of course is that even if they're recognized, we have an absolute -- of resources of people that can help families and children deal with these issues which is another reason why being at school is so important. we have talked not only about the learning issues for children where they need to be in the classroom in person, but also schools serve so many other functions in terms of the social emotional needs of children and recognizes issues like the mental health problems when they occur. >> eugene, i want to be fair to the white house. i want to give you time to address what we've laid out as the problems and as we said, the white house made announcements seeking to address all of this. the testing, concerns and teachers, staffing shortages and we have in the president a commitment and we have in the first lady, dr. jill biden, a teacher, who spends a lot of her time on the road at vaccination events and schools.
can you tell me what they are sort of, what their recognition is that we're at this point where kids are now suffering, where teachers are in randi's words, afraid. and it feels like the crisis and trauma emotionally of the spring of march 2020 even though that is not at all where we are, a lot of us are vaccinated. have the choice to vaccinate our can kids. how are they dealing with that disconnect of the reality of winter heading into the spring of '22 and the feeling? >> it's one of the toughest things this white house has to deal with outside of the actually pandemic. i think this administration when they came in, they were not ready for how reticent some americans would be about not getting vaccinated. so start there. and how much the many people on the republican side were going to be pushing anti-vaxx theories. pushing anti-masks.
so it did make it more difficult for them to get their hands around the pandemic writ large and then when you add in teachers and students and what happens when kids are in schools, my mother and my fiancee's mother, they're both teachers. we hear this from everyone when doing reporting and from talking to my mom, you hear from both sides, how tough it is on teachers in the classrooms, but then you talk to parents when they're supposed to be helping to teach their school kids at home, how tough it is on them. how they're not really equipped to do so, a lot of parents aren't. so the administration is having to tackle all of these things at once and there's not really a playbook for them to do that. so you have like you said, president biden, the second gentleman and the first lady have really talked about kids and vaccinations a lot. kids and masking and kids being in schools as much they can nd now the administration is
kicking in a different gear when it comes to okay, this is where we're at and more importantly, doesn't look like covid is going anywhere anytime soon, right? there was this mindset of defeating the virus. especially last summer, that we were going to have freedom from the virus, but it looks like when you talk to experts, it might be endemic instead of pandemic. that is something we're still figuring out. so the administration has had to change tactics. like how many tests can we give school so people can stay there and parents don't have to deal with that they're doing. and the mental health, as scared as we are as grown people about the pandemic and about all of this, think about being a 7-year-old or 10-year-old who doesn't have the abilities to control what's going on in their life. so i think the administration is still working on that and it's difficult. because of all of the reticence
they've seen being learned from the republican party on masking and vaxxing. >> eugene, talking about a different strategy. a group of outside advisers presented him with a dramatically different frame around this. is there any talk about who leads the effort or any of these key agencies that you're picking up in your reporting? >> not yet. we haven't really heard of any huge changes coming. i think they feel the team they have can handle things as long as they maybe change some of the mindset on endemic going from pandemic to maybe endemic with covid. and so that's where this administration is moved forward. this is an administration, even when they were a campaign, that when they choose a team, when they make a decision, they kind of move forward and keep their head down as much possible and i think that's what we're going to see for a little while here. and as they move and change the
tactics, i think the same team is going to be able to handle that as well. >> we'll be watching. >> for now. >> for now. famous last words, right? for reporters. thank you so much for starting us off this hour. really grateful to all three of you. when we come back, the world's top-ranked tennis player now admits the travel documents he used to get into australia contain false information and he says he did not quarantine after a positive test last month, which is days before the australian open. the drum beat is getting louder to kick him out of the country. plus, will president biden's speech on voting rights change any minds on capitol hill? a new year. new attacks on reproductive freedom. what democrats are going about it. that's later in the hour. deadline white house continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. ouse continues after a quick break. after a quick break. don't go anywhere.
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even if you're not a tennis fan, settle in for this one because it's one of those bizarre stories. you know the kind. where each answered question prompts two more that go unanswered or the closer you think you're getting to the truth, the more unbelievable the whole thing seems. at any minute, australian authorities may or may not deport the number one men's tennis player in the world. just to get you caught up on the controversy. he traveled to melbourne for the australian open last week. that country is in the midst of a surge in covid cases. rather understandably, the country asked travelers to be fully vaccinated upon arrival.
djokovic is not. but an apparent covid diagnosis in mid december earned him an exemption from the tournament organizers when he arrived at the melbourne airport, however, australian federal government officials yanked his visa and put him in a hotel quarantine until a judge reversed that decision on monday. right now, he's hoping to play next week for a chance at a record 21st grand slam win, although a top health official there with the discretionary power to send him back home has yet to make a decision if he'll play. in the meantime, something still smells fishy. for starters, after facing questions about the timeline about the positive results to the test, he admitted to what he called a quote, error in judgment. conducting an interview with a french newspaper while he was
knowingly covid positive back in december. djokovic also acknowledges errors on his immigration forms. documents. he says his agent simply checked the wrong boxes indicated he had not traveled two weeks prior to his arrival in australia, even though he's famous and was seen in spain and serbia in that time frame. joining us now is kevin blackestone. you have, you've been writing about this yourself. you've been following this, take me inside sort of the nuances that i've missed here in the djokovic saga? >> i'm sure there's more because it seems like there's something happening every five minutes. as you pointed out right now, he's waiting as everyone in australia and the tennis community as to see what the
government is going to do with these discrepancies which sound a lot like lies, that have developed in his most recent timeline about when he knew he was positive, when he was able to let people know whether or not he disclosed it. whether or not he filled out the form correctly or someone filled it out incorrectly for him. this is just, it's absolutely bizarre. of course, none of this would be a story if djokovic was simply vaccinated and arrived there to play as he's played for almost a generation now. but that's not the case. he's been an anti-vaxxer. he flaunted, he flaunted these rules before when he threw a big party back in his home a couple of summers ago. and so now here we are. and of course, we have to remember that we've got three entities involved in this. we have the federal government
of australia. we have the tennis organization, which set this all up and then in between, we have the state of victoria in which melbourne, a city of 5 million people rests and it has its own rules. so much like we're struggling with this here, we have a federal versus state versus separate organization struggle over vaccinations in australia. >> but you've put your finger on the ewan ver slty of this. it's an anti-vaxxer traveling across international borders and state lines in australia. i want to read something you write today. novak djokovic fought the public good and won. that's bad news for all of us. the damage of course is already done. not to djokovic, but to governments trying to corral and manage this public health catastrophe. another athlete such as aaron
rodgers has all but martyred the movement. even though the majority are vaccinated. again, too much oxygen was given to too few. something the vast majority of people in australia have decided the worth doing. it led me to the conclusion and the whole piece is fantastic. people should read the whole thing. that sports, for as much they're doing, by letting these big time superstars off the hook, they're hurting the effort. is that your conclusion? >> yeah, absolutely. i mean, we always hold up sport as some sort of paragon of righteousness, right? in this case, we're looking at it, holding it up and it's problematic. it's very troublesome. particularly when you look at the history of australia through this pandemic. they were one of the early countries to really shut down
their borders and to get everything under control. and once they slowly started to open back up again and get on the vaccination train, their last count was they're up to 92% vaccination rate and people know what they can and cannot do within australia. yet because of this tennis tournament, it seems to be that there are some people who are trying to maneuver a way for the number one tennis player in the country, to come in and play one of the grand tournaments on the planet. which is the australian open, which by the way is going to be without serena williams and roger federer, two huge draws, because of injury. naomi osaka, sounds like she's not going to continue to play there. so they are without some of their marquee stars, which helps sell tickets. help bring viewers to the television screen. and help feed broadcasters through those rates.
this is problematic all around, but i just wish the sport as we like to talk about it, could really be a leader here and i wish that the governments could stand on their own 2 feet and not be simply blown over by the whims of an athletic endeavor. >> yeah. i mean, the money talks and there's no other common denominator to pull through the exceptions being made across the sport. that's really the power of your piece. thank you for joining us today. thank you so much. when we come back, president biden set to continue his fight to preserve the right to vote when he meets with senate democrats tomorrow. we'll ask senator angus king. and breaking news on the january 6th investigation after a very short break. stay with us. ry 6th investigation after a very short break. body
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mccarthy. let's bring in my colleague, nbc correspondent. what are you hearing? >> this news coming of mcmainy meeting with the committee. now making good on it and complying with the subpoena request. it's an example of how the committee will continue to get insight on what was going on inside the white house on january 6th even as their records request remains tied up in claims of executive privilege from the former president. so it's an example of how they're still being able to get an insight into potential talking points, conversations, speech drafts and those hours when the capitol was under attack. they know and we know that they want more insight into what the former president was doing at that time. that's also something they're interested in hearing from the top republican here, kevin mccarthy. as we were talking to chairman thompson today, he said that's one of the key things they want
to hear from from mccarthy. the tense conversation he had with then president trump while the capitol was under siege, but then also they want insight from him on why he went from being so critical of trump to then completely doing a 180 and whitewashing what happened here on january 6th. thompson said that he sounds somewhat optimistic and mccarthy being compliant with the committee's request here. he left the option of a subpoena on the table, but mccarthy himself as we went back through the archives in may said he would testify before the committee if he was asked to. of course, time could have changed that and you and i know well the reality of someone who wants to be the next speaker of the house, if they want to take control during the midterms is you have to swear fealty to trump. mccarthy has shown a willingness to do that. it's going to to be interesting to see if he ends up complying with this committee he's regularly railed against or if
instead, he hues more closely to the president on this. >> it's so amazing. you're covering congress but the power center for mccarthy is down in mar-a-lago. incredible reporting. thank you for jumping on the air with us. we'll get more on these breaking stories tonight at 7:00 p.m. eastern when adam schiff joins today. also, the consequences of not stopping the republican blockade against federal voting rights legislation and the reality doubts to change the is that the rules to get it done. after two intense meetings left, senators manchin and sinema apparently not convinced. >> there are constant meeting and not just among a few senators, but just about every senator. every single one of the 50 is talking individually to joe
manchin, to sinema, and they're saying things like, i'll lose my election. we'll lose our majority, but more important, we'll lose our democracy. >> still, schumer says the senate will hold a vote no matter what. meanwhile, an aide tells nbc that president biden will attend the caucus lunch to make yet another pitch to lawmakers there. part of his new, more forceful approach. senator king, i remember when you said on this program, it's been months now, that you had always held that the filibuster was an important check, but that in the case of federal voting rights legislation, it needed a carve out. it needs to be put aside. i wonder what you make of the president arriving at that position and of senator schumer's reporting that joe manchin and kirsten sinema
remain unconvinced of that? >> e i think it's not surprising because the president has a unique perspective having served in the senate for like 40 years and he saw the filibuster degrade from something that was having rarely used, involved holding the floor, endless speeches, a lot of debate, to what we have now, which is i call it the dial in filibuster. you don't even have to make a speech. you don't have to come to the floor. call mitch mcconnell and say, i filibuster. then you have to have 60 votes. that's not the way the rule has worked in the past and joe manchin, got him on my mind. joe biden remembers that and he remembers, he can testify to how what we're experiencing now is not the historic filibuster. now, as far as manchin and sinema, i met with both of them in the last 24 hours.
we've had a lot of talks over the past months on it. they have legitimate concerns. they have the same concerns that i had about changing the filibuster because once you do it, then it's really probably gone forever and the majority and majorities can change, can do whatever they want. so today's annoying obstruction could be tomorrow's priceless shield if you want to defend some policy. on the other hand, this is the argument i've made to both of them, that we're not talking about a policy here. we're talking about a democracy itself and if we don't stop what's going on in the future because they're basically going to have these elections pre-wired and i got to tell you, nicolle. one of the rich ironies is that the principle of bipartisanship that's enshrined in the
filibuster is the be all and end all here in washington, but these anti-voter bills that are passing are 100% partisan. as near as i can tell, no democrats in any states have voted for any of these bills. it's this irony of it's purely partisan in the states and yet we can't do anything about it because of the filibuster decrees that you have to have bipartisan support. i'd love to have bipartisan support. so far, the republicans have said no, we're not going to talk about these voting rights issues. we are where we are. i'm hoping american people will weigh in because democracy itself is at stake. >> 57% of all democrats support a simple majority to pass legislation and 15 percentage points more of republicans do. i hear what you're saying about
the shield and i believe you when you say that's joe manchin's view, but you put it aside to raise the debt ceiling and mcconnell didn't think the shield was preserving when he used the nuclear option to get judges passed. it's not sacred to you all in the body. in the chamber. what is the reasoning, if you push deeper underneath manchin's talking point. what do you understand his real objection to be? >> i think part of it is you have to understand he's in robert byrd's seat. he's steep nd the tradition and he believes that what we're talking about is a deeply important part of senate practice in history. i don't think it's, i don't think what we have now is senate practice. in history. and here's one of the ironies. this bill we're going to be
debating is bipartisan everywhere but in the u.s. senate. >> right. >> there was just a poll released today, over 60% of the american people want easy mail-in voting. they want absentee voting. they want the election day to be a holiday. they support all the provisions of the bill that we're talking about. these are democrats and republicans. but it's a totally partisan effort here in the senate to block it and nicolle, i got to tell you a story. in 1891, in the winter of 1891, the house of representatives passed a voting rights bill to protect the franchise of black people in the south. the bill died in the senate in a filibuster. for 75 years, it took us 75 years to right that wrong. to correct that mistake. american history was changed by a few votes or the lack of a few
votes by the u.s. senate in the winter of 1891. i don't want to make that mistake again. i don't want to stand by and say i let this happen, i let them erode the, not only voting rights, but the counting of votes, substituting of partisans for nonpartisan voting officials. allowing legislatures to get involved in counting and certifying votes. that's inimkabul to democracy itself and i don't want to say, oh, man, we made a decision in 2022 in the winter that's going to reverberate for generations in this country as we try to get our democracy back. i just, that vote in 1891 haunts me, nicolle. i got to tell you. >> we're going to keep calling on you this week to see if any hearts and minds are moved the way yours was. thank you. when we come back, with roe versus wade on the brink,
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session in florida, lawmakers introduced a 15-week abortion l mortality bill. just in the past month, new restrictions or bans on abortion were proposed or enacted in south dakota, missouri, and alabama. let's bring in former acting u.s. solicitor general. i want to get to what we think the supreme court is going to do in a second, but what's so amazing to me is these have been political losers. the politics, the braiseness with which republicans are pushing these extreme measures, roe v. wade, neither extreme. republican really sort of going for the gus to with extreme measures that until this point have been very unpopular even with some of their own voters. >> well, i think that you can
track what's happening on the republican side and in all of these states with what has come down in the supreme court when the composition of the court changed over the trump years. these pieces of legislation have really just replicated around the states. frankly, since the mississippi argument in the supreme court until now, state legislators have opened their doors in january to roll these pieces of legislation through. despite the fact the public supports the abortion rights as protected ushd roe v. wade. so they fly against public policy, but they have the state legislature cans. they have the governors and they believe they have the supreme court. >> and at least one justice says they have the supreme court.
justice talking about the legislature in mississippi waiting until the three justices were appointed. what is the current january 2022 thinking about which way this court will go? >> it's not going to. the supreme court is considering cases against the backdrop of really as the congresswoman just said a war against reproductive rights. this bill is just one upcoming battle. just to look at last year, 108 brorgs restrictions enacted in 19 different states. that's the highest total since roe v. with wade. the reason it's all happening, it it's all catalyzed by the change in the composition of the stream court. being replaced by justice barrett. so the case they are considering now, mirrors the case that is
the mississippi case. it's a ban on abortion after 15 weeks just like the mississippi one. and the supreme court heard arguments in the mississippi one last month and unfortunately, all indications were that they were going to uphold the mississippi law much to the what will be a strong for justice briar and kagan. but that's only three votes. the language that they took in some of the conservative justices on the court were pretty extraordinary in the way they wanted to attack roe v. wade to uphold the mississippi law. >> it never fails in these segments about voting rights and reproductive rights to put on democrats whaterer they going to do to save democracy and wimp. but there isn't anybody else. my question to you is what opportunity do democrats have to grow their coalition by being
the only party standing with women's right to make health care decisions on their own with theirs? >> the first time that we have seen in a long time that abortion rights really going to be on the ballot for november '22. the supreme court's decision is going to be handed down probably in june at the end of the term. it's going to place the issue squarely on the minds of voters going into the november election. democrats are prepared to and ought to mobilize voters all across the country because as we said before, there's overwhelming support for abortion rights in the united states. i also think that the house in the fall got little notice, but the house actually passed legislation to codify roe v. wade's protections and it's sitting in the wasteland of the united states senate. i guess, waiting filibuster are
reform. >> i wonder after sort of a session like what we have covered, what is the dynamic like between and among the justices? >> it's very hard to know, but there's a lot more tension now you can see it at the oral argument that be at times in the past, which is incredibly unfortunate. something that was just said. congress could codify roe v. wade by a simple majority vote. i understand that the senate has a filibuster and all that, but i think this has got to be drod and taken up on the floor and make the republicans vote against this it and take and make them vote and say we don't trust women to make such decision ps. to just have it be in the waste land of this is the too hard box. it might be subject to a filibuster without even trying i think is really unfortunate. we should think about this the way we're thinking about the voting rights legislation.
>> the too hard box, i'm going to use that. thank you both for joining us today. a quick break for us. we will be right back. today. a quick break for us we will be right back. thanks for bringing me with you guys today, mr. and mrs. lopez. not a problem, josh. hey, you two. check out all these camera views in my silverado i can see in front of me, behind me, on either side of me. and it has this cam, so i can see if there's any funny business going on.
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to worry about. security, control and peace of mind. with xfinity xfi, it's all built in at no extra cost. thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times. we're grateful. "the beat" starts right now. >> thank you so much. we begin with breaking news in the january 6th probe. congressional investigators are making it clear they want to hear from trump ally and the