Skip to main content

tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  January 20, 2022 5:00pm-6:00pm PST

5:00 pm
for weakening it further because they know who it hurts, black voters, latino, api voters most. >> amen, be like aria star, pennsylvania, north carolina, take all those states all, watch everything change. juanita tolliver, stewart stevens, thank you very much, chris hayes starts now. tonight, on "all in," with democracy in peril, economy in recovery and domestic agenda at a cross roads, white house chief of staff on year two of the biden administration. then. >> throughout our history, brave men and women faced daunting challenges and embraced the adventure. >> a new adventure for ivanka, january 6 committee reveals stunning evidence in a letter to ivanka trump, why they want to
5:01 pm
interview the president's daughter. is president trump going to be cripplingly charged in georgia? >> fellas, i need 11,000 votes, give me a break. what the announcement of a special grand jury means in the case against donald trump. "all in" starts now. good evening from new york i'm chris hayes, date is january 20th, 2022, exactly one year since the first term of president of the united states, joseph r. biden and since the ex-disgraced ex-president, donald trump. >> we have got so much done, that nobody thought would be possible, but i really want to thank congress, all the people of washington dc, all the people that we worked with to put this miracle together. so, have a good life. we will see you soon. thank you. thank you very much.
5:02 pm
thank you very much. >> have a good life. i got to tell you, we are trying. it's not easy, but we're trying. of course, president joe biden came into office to do more than just rid us of donald trump and his inauguration speech included some pretty big ticket items. >> we can right wrongs, we can put people to work in good jobs. we can teach our children in safe schools. we can overcome the deadly virus. >> now, striking to me as someone covering politics since 2007, particularly politics in washington, since right before president barack obama took office, this is the second successive democratic president inheriting a country in the midst of a dire acute crisis.
5:03 pm
president obama took office, in a once in a century global financial crisis the lingering effects to which we still feel to this day and of course president biden inherited a once in a century pandemic so far left 800,000 americans dead, sickened nearly 70 million more, probably far more than that, not to say the economic catastrophe that comes with the distractions and joe biden has to walk this fine line with the messaging, where they tout things are improving but concede there's a long way to go. that was the biggest hurdle for barack obama as we dug out of the financial crisis and saw it again yesterday during joe biden's remarks. >> we went from two million people being vaccinated at the moment i was sworn in to 210 million americans being fully vaccinated today. we created 6 million new jobs. more jobs in one year than anytime before.
5:04 pm
unemployment dropped, the unemployment rate dropped to 3.9%, child poverty dropped nearly 40%, biggest drop in american history, still, for all the progress, i know there's a lot of the frustration. >> as we approach the two year anniversary of pandemic that has meant complete disruption in the lives of millions of most americans not to mention a coup attempt and the growing antidemocratic authoritarian formation in american politics, if you take a step back, you recognize there's been a lot done by the biden administration. really, tangible accomplishments really on economic recovery and vaccinations which were two major pillars. joe biden saw the biggest increase in wealth share among the bottom 50% of households ever and that's largely thanks to the unprecedented federal stimulus in response to the virus. a step that as new york times
5:05 pm
ezra klein quoted since march 2020, americans saved $2 trillion more than expected and that is not just a function of rich getting richer, jp morgan chase analysis found the median household's checking account balance was 50% higher in july 2021 than in the months before the pandemic. of course, the stakes are high for american democracy than other things, recovery from the pandemic, the future of the climate catastrophe, and our free and fair elections, all these things hinge on what happens in this next year as we approach the midterms, whether this antidemocratic, increasingly authoritarian political faction returns to power. so i can think of no better person to talk about that with, short of the president or vice-president themselves than the white house chief of staff, joining me now, white house chief of staff, ron, it's great to have you on. i want to start with the statistic that for me embodies the conundrum of the economy that i think is at the core of
5:06 pm
the mission this year for the biden administration. if you ask people how the national economy is doing, is it doing well, their comfort with it on zero to 100 they say 29%, bad marks. if you ask what the personal finances, they say 61%. so there's this gap between how people are experiencing economy in their pocket books, in terms of the labor markets and their perception of the economy. how do you understand that and what can you do about it? >> well first of all, thanks for having me chris, great to be here as always. look, i think the numbers you cite are telling of where we are, which is i think our economic plan has done an excellent job of raising incomes, getting people employment, when we got here, were 20 million people on unemployment down to 1.7 million now, people are back at work, savings accounts are up, feel well off personally, but we also have to be realistic, they're living in economy aim where
5:07 pm
there's still stores shut, people aren't back full time, all kinds of dislocation, all these disruptions caused by the pandemic and the anxiety of the pandemic hangs over peoples' heads, that's what the president said yesterday in his press conference, i think that's a realistic appraisal of where we are so part of the job is, the heart of the job here is really addressing that pandemic. now, we've made a lot of progress on that, 210 people fully vaccinated, 210 million americans at risk of death who now have the risk of security. way too many cases, hospitalizations, we need to get those things under control, and i think that's what it's going to take to have people feel like the national economy as a whole is doing as well as they are in their own personal lives. >> in the last week, there's been, or last two weeks, these two initiatives, the new -- using the postal service to mail for test at every household, the website is very efficient and clean and easy to use.
5:08 pm
a plan to distribute masks, both of which are coming online. you guys probably should have done that six weeks ago, right? >> well, chris, we had to ramp up both. first, the testing side, it's worth remembering that when we got here, there were zero at-home tests, none, didn't exist in the united states of america. so over the course of the 11, first 11 months we were here we built up from zero to 350 million at-home tests in december. now we are taking it to the next step, we're continuing to ramp up production so that we can have this easy website where you can go get four free tests. we also changed the rules so if you want to buy tests from a store or commercial website your insurance company will reemburse you for those tests so we're continuing to expand testing, made progress every month, continue to make progress. on the masking, again, i think the new cdc recommendation that tilts toward more use of the more specialized masks, the kn-95s, n-95s, i think makes it
5:09 pm
incumbent on us to make those more easily available, more widely available, so our response has taken steps with the pandemic, you know, we continue to make progress, we're going to continue to make progress. >> at what -- i think part of, there's a sense of frustration, i think, some despair, sometimes in the country and i think a lot of it is the crude trauma of the pandemic, two years of pandemic, the biggest disruption to american daily life since world war ii, maybe before that. i think it's easy to look past that. and every time you think oh, okay, this is it, we're there, we're there, it's like oh my gosh, now there's omicron, now there's this, my kids sent home from school. what's your understanding, what's the white house's vision of what the year looks like in that respect? >> well, chris, i think it's important to step back and see how this wave is different from previous waves to answer your
5:10 pm
question which is yes, omicron created the most cases we've ever had in america, but, in fact, because so many americans are fully vaccinated, 80 million boosted, because we now have vaccinations that reach down to age five, in fact, even in this horrible wave of the pandemic, most schools are still open. when we got here less than half the schools in america were open with even less covid so now we've made big investment in making the schools safer and in improving ventilation and things in schools so schools are open. most businesses are open. and so we're finding a way to help protect the country, make it resilient in the face of the pandemic. i can't predict what the next wave will be, when it will come, if it will come, but what i can tell you is we are ramping up every tool we need to combat the pandemic. we have more antivirals than we had before, have this new pill coming along. we have the first deliveries up and many more in february and march, more in america than any country, we ordered very
5:11 pm
aggressively which means even if you're not vaccinated and get covid, you're going to be able to take this pill and not have severe health consequences. so we're bringing new tools to the fight everyday, increasing testing, increasing masking, increasing treatments, all these things, you know, expanding vaccinations and i think that's going to make this country more able to deal with whatever covid throws at it. >> let's talk about the president's domestic agenda, the build back better bill particularly, which we don't -- i don't know its status. joe manchin saying today basically, hasn't been talks, it will have to start from zero, president yesterday talking about carving into chunks. what is the message, what should we understand about what the goal is here, legislatively for the president's domestic policy priorities, given manchin and sinema and what can be salvaged from this legislation? >> well, chris, i'm cautiously optimistic. i think senator manchin has made
5:12 pm
it clear publicly that he's interested in putting together the key pieces of build back better. he's spoken favorably about the climate elements of build back better, spoken favorably about many of the childcare and senior care and preschool elements of build back better, spoken favorable of the healthcare elements, look, it just makes sense. we just have this problem with inflation, so what could be more responsive to that than saying we're going to limit what people have to pay for their childcare? we're going to help people pay for elder care for their seniors, we're going to bring down the cost of prescription drugs dramatically, we're going to lower people's health insurance premiums, i mean this is just a common sense approach to deal with these problems and we're going to tackle the problem of climate change building a clean energy economy, bring down what people pay there in energy in heating homes, cooling homes, and of course get us ready for a clean energy future. i think this is a common sense agenda, very broad supportive by
5:13 pm
democrats, a version of the bill passed with every single democrat left, right, center, except one voted for it and i think we'll find some solution to get some version of this bill through the senate. >> one last and really important question. and it has to do with afghanistan, the president got the question about withdrawal yesterday. the u.s. has sanctions against the taliban, has not recognized the taliban government, both of which i understand why those are in place. we also put a freeze on about $9 billion in the afghanistan government's assets which are actually held here which means they can't access it. human rights group estimate as many as 20 million afghans facing famine in a country that is of the poorest in the world. what possible justification is there for the u.s. government to keep freezing those assets or block aid or recognition to the taliban if the result of it is 10s of millions of people facing starvation. >> i would say, chris, the rationale is the horrible acts
5:14 pm
of the taliban regime, that's why the assets are frozen. i do think, though, we have to be part of finding a humanitarian solution to avoid a humanitarian crisis in afghanistan and it's something we're working on here everyday. >> okay. ron klain, i really appreciate your time tonight, thank you very much. >> thanks for having me chris, i appreciate it. >> all right. we have a new name to add to the january 6 committee's potential witness list, ivanka trump, now seen a fair share of letters, subpoenas from the committee, i have to say they're not all created equal, some just lay out information we already know, summation of public reporting, you read them, i follow closely, it's nothing new. then there are the ones we have like tonight that have a lot new that pull back the curtain on things we've largely been in the dark about. namely, what was donald trump doing during the attack? new details from that letter including a potential conversation between trump and vice-president pence on the morning of the 6th, next. morniafter just two doses.
5:15 pm
skyrizi may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, such as fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches, or coughs or if you plan to or recently received a vaccine. ♪ nothing is everything. ♪ woman: talk to your dermatologist about skyrizi. learn how abbvie could help you save. for people living with h-i-v, keep being you. and ask your doctor about biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill,
5:16 pm
once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in certain adults. it's not a cure, but with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to and stay undetectable. that's when the amount of virus is so low it cannot be measured by a lab test. research shows people who take h-i-v treatment every day and get to and stay undetectable can no longer transmit h-i-v through sex. serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure. rare, life-threatening side effects include a buildup of lactic acid and liver problems. do not take biktarvy if you take dofetilide or rifampin. tell your doctor about all the medicines and supplements you take, if you are pregnant or breastfeeding, or if you have kidney or liver problems, including hepatitis. if you have hepatitis b, do not stop taking biktarvy without talking to your doctor. common side effects were diarrhea, nausea, and headache. if you're living with hiv, keep loving who you are. and ask your doctor if biktarvy is right for you. here we go... remember, mom's a kayak denier, so please don't bring it up. bring what up, kayak?
5:17 pm
excuse me? do the research, todd. listen to me, kayak searches hundreds of travel sites to find you great deals on flights, cars and hotels. they're lying to you! who's they? kayak? arr! open your eyes! compare hundreds of travel sites at once. kayak. search one and done. as a business owner, your bottom line compare hundreds is always top of mind.. so start saving by switching to the mobile service designed for small business: comcast business mobile. flexible data plans mean you can get unlimited data or pay by the gig. all on the most reliable nationwide network. with no line activation fees or term contracts... saving you up to $500 a year. and it's only available to comcast business internet customers. so boost your bottom line by switching today. comcast business: powering possibilities. it's been nearly two years since the pandemic started. our students and teachers tried their best, but as a parent,
5:18 pm
i can tell you that nearly 18 months of remote learning was really hard. i'm so angry that instead of helping our kids get back in the classroom, the school board focused on renaming schools schools that weren't even open . please recall all three school board members now. for the sake of our kids, we can't wait one more day, never mind a whole year for a fresh start. >> we know as he was sitting there in the dining room next to the oval office, members of his staff were pleading with him to go on television to tell them to stop, mccarthy was pleading him, members of his family, his daughter, we have first-hand testimony his daughter ivanka went in at least twice to ask him to please stop this violence. >> a few weeks ago, vice chair of the january 6 select committee, liz cheney, name
5:19 pm
checked ivanka trump on television, you had to be an inkling it wouldn't be long before the first daughter of the disgraced ex-president would receive a rocket from the committee like she got today. 11 pages long, filled with really awkward new details and a request to voluntarily cooperate with the investigation. the committee begins by asking what ivanka trump knows about donald trump's efforts to undermine the electoral vote count on january 6, specifically, i quote here, the select committee wishes to discuss the part of the conversation you observed between president trump and vice-president mike pence on the morning of january 6th, similarly, the select committee would like to discuss any other conversations you may have witnessed, participated in, regarding the president's plan to obstruct or impede the counting of electoral votes. for example, the committee's information suggesting that president trump's white house counsel may have included action trump directed vice-president pence to take would violate the
5:20 pm
constitution or otherwise be illegal. i mean, that's a lot right there, the conversation that took place, apparently that she witnessed, committee wants to know about that conversation, between trump and pence that ivanka witnessed herself on the morning of the insurrection, didn't know about that. also say they have information suggesting that trump's white house counsel thought what trump was telling pence to do was illegal. next, committee asked about donald trump's actions during the insurrection itself, those hours, infamous in one section the committee focuses on a tweet, trump sent at 2:24 p.m. minutes after the rioters first broken windows and entered the capitol when congress were still inside, when trump seemed to sick pence, even appalling and shocking in real time. he tweeted, mike pence didn't have the courage to do what should have been done -- the media says they're particularly interested in discussions inside the white house and the president before and after his 2:24 p.m. tweet, testimony obtained by the select committee
5:21 pm
indicates members of the white house staff requested your assistance on multiment occasions to intervene in an attempt to persuade president trump to address the on going lawlessness on capitol hill, according to the committee, a lot of people thought ivanka trump would be the only one trump would listen to, again, the president was, quote, stubborn and staff recognize you may be the only person who could persuade him to act. ivanka trump not the only person persuading trump to do something he didn't want to do. in today's letter, new insight into the 9:00 p.m. host on fox news to try to change trump's tone at the days after the insurrection. we already knew sean hannity had been part of the trump inner circle, almost like a staffer to the president, had been texting with trump's chief of staff, today we learned he was also in communication with trump's chief spokesperson kaly macinny, hannity texted ms. mcenany, laying out a five point approach
5:22 pm
for conversations, laying out a plan as follows, no more stolen election talk, yes, impeachment, many people will quit. in response, ms. mcenany replied, yes, thank you that is the play book i will enforce. wow, that's fox host sean hannity game planning a post insurrection approach which current fox news commentator kaley mcenany happily accepts. jamie rascen of maryland, january 6 committee, author of the excellent new book "unthinkable" trials and truth of american democracy, i spoke about on the podcast, congressman raskin there is a lot here. i guess the first question is, this is a solicitation of
5:23 pm
cooperation, how should we understand this letter to ivanka trump? >> well, we're closing in on the target, chris, it's been a good week with the supreme court decision rejecting the efforts to block release of a whole bunch of documents. lots of people coming forward to testify and we're really developing a fine grade portrait of what happened on that day. ivanka trump is a critical figure because she was there in the morning, we believe she was there when trump was still trying to twist mike pence's arm, remember the, you will go down in history as a patriot or a pussy words towards him and also a key figure in to get to pull trump back, apparently, so she could really, you know, perhaps complete the portrait of what happened on january 6th for us. >> yeah, and i didn't know about this conversation she saw with pence. there's another item in that letter i want to ask you about, because it talks about testimony from general keith kellogg, so i want to read, again this is
5:24 pm
nothing not public, this is in a letter, ask for you to maybe give us some context here. it says in a letter, sworn testimony, kellogg keith wanted the president to take immediate action to ease unrest, did you think that she, ivanka trump, could get him, president trump to stop this, yes, question, he didn't say yes to mark meadows or mcenany but maybe to his daughter. tell us what you learned about this apparently desperate effort to get him to stop this. >> well the impression we have is of successive entreaties directly to former president trump to essentially call off the dogs and to tell everybody to go home. obviously, was a matter of walking 20 paces over to the cameras and just making a speech and there were repeated efforts to get him to intercede and i think ivanka trump figures highly now in this because
5:25 pm
people thought he might listen to her but what we're getting is a very clear sense that the people in the media entourage of donald trump knew what a terrible thing this violence was, it was illegal, unlawful, unconstitutional, we believe the white house counsel was rendering advice to that effect and yet trump continued to, you know, try to march everybody off of the plank. >> and it also seems, and again, this is from the letter here, these video outtakes and there's been some reporting about multiple out takes necessary to get trump to say leave even though he says i love you and you'll never forget this day. it's a very bizarre performance but the select committee says multiple takes were filmed but not utilized, information in the select committee suggests the president failed in the initial clips to ask rioters to leave the capitol. i mean more and more and more detail that he was utterly resistant to doing the one thing, it seems, that everyone
5:26 pm
agreed was necessary to stop the violence. >> well, you know, he had been setting this political coup in motion, directed at vice-president pence. he had helped to activate, we believe, these domestic violent extremist groups and obviously got seditious conspiracy charges the steven rhodes oath keeper group, but now activating this demonstration of 10s of thousands of people to become a mob by essentially sicking them on mike pence and we have statements from a lot of people who were in the demonstration saying they were waiting to hear what mike pence would do and when they got the message he was not going to cooperate and bow down to the president, at that point, all bets were off and they decided to tear up the place. >> yeah, and the mention there of the tweet about mike pence, as they said in the interim to the segment, at the time, it was
5:27 pm
appalling, seemed clearly to be painting a target on the man's back. your letter suggests that perhaps ivanka has knowledge of what went into that or the reaction to it. is that right? >> yeah, i mean there are different ways of interpreting this, obviously, there were people participating in this political effort up until the point when everything got really deranged and insane, but it's also suggestive of the possibility that there were people who felt they had to try to control and contain donald trump and psychologically, he was just out of control. and they were looking at ways to try to reign him back in. >> we should note that ivanka's press person put in a statement, essentially nonresponsive and said she didn't speak at the rally and publicly stated that the violence must stop immediately, that seems nonresponsive, but i suspect
5:28 pm
that we will get a more responsive request, response from ivanka trump at some point. raskin, a subject of the documentary, love & the constitution, airing next month, thank you congressman. >> pleasures all mine, thank you. >> coming up, remember the investigation into trump's call when they demand they find him more votes? well the d.a. is asking for a grand jury and that is a really big deal, i'll explain why, next. >> i just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have, because we won the state. r discover card. hey lily, i need a new wireless plan for my business, but all my employees need something different.
5:29 pm
, we can help with that. okay, imagine this. your mover, rob, he's on the scene and needs a plan with a mobile hotspot. we cut to downtown, your sales rep lisa has to send some files, like asap! so basically i can pick the right plan for each employee. yeah i should've just led with that. with at&t business. you can pick the best plan for each employee and get the best deals on every smart phone. (judith) in this market, you'll find fisher investments is different than other money managers.each employee (other money manager) different how? don't you just ride the wave? (judith) no - we actively manage client portfolios based on our forward-looking views of the market. (other money manager) but you still sell investments that generate high commissions, right? (judith) no, we don't sell commission products. we're a fiduciary, obligated to act in our client's best interest. (other money manager) so when do you make more money? only when your clients make more money? (judith) yep, we do better when our clients do better. at fisher investments we're clearly different.
5:30 pm
♪ when you have nausea, ♪ ♪ heartburn, ingestion, upset stomach... ♪ ♪ diarrheaaaa.♪ try pepto bismol with a powerful coating action. for fast and soothing relief. pepto bismol for fast relief when you need it most. psoriasis really messes with you. try. hope. fail. no one should suffer like that. i started cosentyx®. five years clear. real people with psoriasis look and feel better with cosentyx. don't use if you're allergic to cosentyx. before starting get checked for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infection, some serious and a lowered ability to fight them may occur.
5:31 pm
tell your doctor about an infection or symptoms or if you had a vaccine or plan to. tell your doctor if your crohn's disease symptoms develop or worsen. serious allergic reaction may occur. best move i've ever made. ask your dermatologist about cosentyx®. well, would you look at that? jerry, you gotta see this. seen it. trust me, after 15 walks... gets a little old. i really should be retired by now. wish i'd invested when i had the chance... to the moon! ugh. unbelievable.
5:32 pm
we have the phonecall, there's no disagreement on the facts on january 2, 2021, then president donald trump picked up the phone called georgia
5:33 pm
secretary of state, and urged them to find the votes for that state. the next month, district county, chief prosecutor launched investigation to overturn the election and today that took a significant step forward with the district attorney now suggesting a special grand jury for the proep, she sent this letter to the supreme judge of fulton county, says she would need a significant number of witnesses, who have refused to cooperate with the investigation absent a subpoena requesting their testimony. even ben rathesberger said he would only cooperate with the subpoena. da signing with these comments he made last year. >> if she wants to subpoena me there's a process for that and i would gladly make sure i participate in that to follow the law, follow the constitution, when you get a grand jury summons you respond to it.
5:34 pm
>> grand jury request must be approved by the majority of the supreme court in fulton county so we have to wait for their suggestion, we know the ex-president's lawyers have already met in person with prosecutors from the da's office and da recently told the associated press on decision whether to bring charges on trump could come as soon as the first half of this year. i have to say, i really think this should be the thing that should take down donald trump, i mean not that you can take him down, anyway, but we have the then-president on tape soliciting election fraud. this is not a case of someone down the chain of command preparing documents for him with plausible deniability and no other single piece of evidence pass the raw illegality of asking a secretary of state finding the votes for him to win. >> i just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we
5:35 pm
have. because we won the state, so what are we going to do here folks? i only need 11,000 votes. fellas, i need 11,000 votes, give me a break. >> this is not a situation with an alibi or lack of edible witnesses, he's on tape, the call is not disputed, the facts are crystal clear, it is just a question of what the law says and there's no reason for donald trump not to be indicted. it is a crime to pressure officials to interfere and change the results of an election, fulton county district attorney looking at multiple violations of georgia law including solicitation for election fraud, racketeering among others, now, have to prove he knew who he was doing was unlawful, had criminal intent. what was his state of mind, was
5:36 pm
he doing it corruptly or in good faith, that can be hard to prove, for sure, my feeling is let a jury decide. because i'll tell what you we're going to talk next, just how open and shut this case is, when we come back. case is, when we come back hi, i'm debra. i'm from colorado. i've been married to my high school sweetheart for 35 years. i'm a mother of four-- always busy. i was starting to feel a little foggy. just didn't feel like things were as sharp as i knew they once were. i heard about prevagen and then i started taking it about two years now. started noticing things a little sharper, a little clearer.
5:37 pm
i feel like it's kept me on my game. i'm able to remember things. i'd say give it a try. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. you could email an urgent question to lisa in marketing. and a follow up. and a “did you see my email?” text. orrrr... you could see her status in slack. and give lisa a break while you find someone online who can help. unitedhealthcare medicare plans offer so much more... slack. where the future works.
5:38 pm you can find just the right plan for you. like the “visit a doctor anywhere our rv takes us” plan. the “zero copays means more money for rumba lessons” plan. ♪♪ and the “visit my doctor while eating pancakes” plan. unitedhealthcare is the #1 medicare plan provider, so you're sure to find the right plan for you. including the only plans with the aarp name. get medicare with more. ♪ ♪ including the only plans with the aarp name. ♪ ♪
5:39 pm
[music: “you can get it if you really want” by jimmy cliff] at fidelity, your dedicated advisor will help you create a comprehensive wealth plan for your full financial picture. with the right balance of risk and reward. so you can enjoy more of...this. this is the planning effect.
5:40 pm
reason we know about donald trump's call to secretary of state rathesberger is how desperate he was to win the election, on january 2021 called to produce votes out of nowhere, the reason we know is because the next day january third, trump sent this tweet saying i spoke to brad raffensperger yesterday about fulton county in georgia, he was unwilling or unable to answer questions such as ballots under the table, he has no clue. the things he listed are clearly untrue, and later, they published the audio of the call
5:41 pm
recorded by rathesberger's team, and you can hear trump, he asked for more votes than he actually got and he gets frustrated when he does not get his way. >> so there were many infractions, and the bottom line is many, many times the 11,779 margin that they said we lost by, but the ballots are corrupt, and you're going to find that they are, which is totally illegal. it's more illegal for you than it is for them. because you know what they did and you're not reporting it. that's the thing, you know, that's a criminal, that's a criminal offense. and, you know, you can't let that happen. that's a big risk to you and to ryan, your lawyer. that's a big risk. in fulton where they dumped ballots, you will find that you have many that aren't even signed, and you have many that are forgeries. okay, you know that. you know that. you have no doubt about that.
5:42 pm
and you will find you will be at 11,779 within minutes because fulton county is totally corrupt. so look, all i want to do is this, i just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have because we won the state. so what are we going to do here folks? i only need len, 11,000 votes. give me a break. >> that is what will likely be played for the grand jury in fulton county georgia should it be convened, here senior reporter for the atlantic journal, regarding the da request for special investigation. new york law school, former manhattan assist district attorney. let me start with you, maybe you can tell us the significance of
5:43 pm
this, what it means and what happens next? >> well, so da asking for a special grand jury which is a little different from your typical grand jury we have in fulton county, normal grand jury lasts about two months and this jury is considering hundreds of different cases, any felony that would happen in the city, from murderers to robberies and threats that sort of thing so constantly juggling different issues, what da willis is asking for this time is a dedicated grand jury, 16 to 23 individuals who will only be focused on this specific case. not only that, they won't be rotated off after two months. they can stick around for as long as the da needs them to be there, which a lot of legal observers state may be a good thing for such a lengthy and complicated and novel case, as this is expected to be. >> yeah, and just one more follow-up and then i'll go to you, rebecca. is the expectation that the majority of superior court judges are going to grant this,
5:44 pm
or is that fairly pro forma or up in the air? my understanding is that when these are requested, which is a pretty rare thing in general, they generally are granted so yes we are expecting that to go through. >> so rebecca, what is your interpretation of this, i mean, there's a weird thing happening here which is like, again, the facts aren't in dispute, i think the law is pretty clear, to the extent there's a criminal case it does come down to intent, i know intent can be hard to prove, but it seems to be worth trying. what, what do you think? >> so, you know, it is absolutely true that intent can be hard to prove. even when you have all the facts written down on a piece of paper, recorded, as they are here, you saw that, you showed that tweet which is trump out in the open saying what happens, in fact, that's good for his legal case because what he's essentially saying is look, i have nothing to hide. you know, yes, this call happened and i have nothing to hide because he actually is
5:45 pm
going to make the defense that he believed that the election was stolen from him. so when he was talking to the secretary of state, he was just urging him to do what he is required to do under law, and that is, you know, consistent, though implausible as you say, it's certainly consistent with the documents that we have and the way he has conducted himself. so intent is going to be a very difficult element to prove and leave it to the grand jury on this particular grand jury will issue a report and recommendation to the judge and from there we'll see where it goes. >> so yeah, walk me through that step because there's many ways to interpret this, i mean, what is your interpretation of this request for a grand jury and what that means? >> so grand juries are different in every state, which makes it complicated, and in georgia, the special grand jury serves a different purpose than the special grand jury does in new york, so in georgia, the special grand jury cannot indict, it can
5:46 pm
subpoena witnesses then issues a report and recommendation so that's likely different than in manhattan where it can issue indictment itself so this means it's reached a stage in which the prosecutor wants to hear evidence from live witnesses and she's vague trouble doing that in an informal way and had to convene a grand jury to do so in this particular way but that doesn't necessarily mean she's reached a conclusion or they're necessarily going to be charges at the end of the road. >> and tamara you were nodding your head in agreement. how public has the district attorney been about this case, how much of it has been something in the news there? >> well, she's been quite quiet in the years since she announced she was launching this investigation, you know, she sent letters to our governor, our attorney general, of course, secretary steve raffesberger,
5:47 pm
asking for documents about this case, that's been about it, a can you tell of interviews saying she'll let prosecutors do their work, not necessarily on a strict timeframe, told the a.p. about a week ago she does plan to of some action within the next six months but really keeping quiet and saying she's going to let the facts lead her where they lie. >> and i guess the last question, rebecca, what your judgment is here. i mean the sort of plausible deniability of intent is powerful yet the purpose is so evident and the fact they recorded the phone calls because they understood they were on the other end of something deeply wrong that was happening. well, what do you think about it? if it weren't for the burden of proof, i would say you're 1100%
5:48 pm
but every element has to be proof beyond a doubt, so is there reasonable proof? he went out and tweeted about this the second it happened, doesn't that show a lack of consciousness of guilt, isn't it at least consistent with the notion that perhaps, he really has convinced himself that the entire election was stolen from him? i do think that poses a significant problem for prosecutors here and you know, we'll have to see what the grand jury thinks, and in turn, what prosecutors do in response to their recommendation if that grand jury is in fact, convened. >> you know it's funny, trump issued a statement today putting this phone call in the same as the phone call to the ukrainian president that, of course, led to his first impeachment. in both cases a kind of argument that i was so self deluded that i believed in the ridiculous things i was claiming in pursuit of, essentially a corrupt solicitation in both cases but
5:49 pm
because i am genuinely deluded, what can you do. thank you both, appreciate it. >> thank you, chris. >> up next, hear from michelle goldberg on what voters will make of all the trump investigations and joe biden's performance one year in. we'll be right back. performance one year in. performance one year in. we'll be right back. skyrizi may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. tell your if you have an infection or symptoms such as fever, sweats, chills, muscle aches, or coughs or if you plan to or recently received a vaccine. ♪nothing is everything♪ talk to your dermatologist about skyrizi. learn how abbvie could help you save. for there is always light, if only we're brave enough to see it, if only we're brave enough to be it. if only we're brave enough. brave enough to live through
5:50 pm
two of the most difficult years many of us can remember. brave enough to pull ourselves up again, and again. america is the home of the brave. it's why we keep getting up, performance one year in. cked do. performance one year in. demic ns wanted or expected, but we're moving. i was the first person to get the vaccine in the whole country. and now, how many people are vaccinated? over 200 million, right? that's what keeps me going, that i can feel the change. restaurants have opened their doors, shops and businesses are buzzing again all over the country. more jobs were created in 2021 than in any year in the last 80 years. we are stronger than we were a year ago today. we're bringing on new drivers...we're expanding. the fear that was there it's gone away. business is booming. it's exciting times for the auto industry.
5:51 pm
rebuilding our bridges, our roads, our transit systems. and the jobs...that's what this administration has been doing. from our toughest times, america has always built a brighter future. yes -- we are brave. brave enough to see the light. and be the light we need to rebuild this country. we are strong. we are courageous. we are resilient. we are america, land of the brave. i've long said it's never been a good bet to bet against america. and that's more true today than ever. i've never been more optimistic about america's future. there is nothing beyond our capacity if we do it together.
5:52 pm
5:53 pm
it has been one year at the bidened aman stragz, there's one big challenge looming. one of the two major political parties in this country is under the sway of an authoritarian leader. and voters don't seem inclined to penalize the members of the elected party for that. so, how do you campaign against a party when they're threatening democracy. and we're joined by michelle goldberg, an op-ed journalist
5:54 pm
for "the new york times." i think, as we take stock a year in, that's one lessen. and voters are not going to penalize republican party for this sort of antidemocratic thrust. the question is can that be changed and is it even worth changing? or should people think about the more meat and potatoes messaging that steers clear of that kind of thing? >> well, this is an existential crisis. so, i don't think you can hide from it. there's no question people are going to be drawing contrast with the republican opponents on health care, who gets tax cuts, gets taxes raised. but a lot of people who get nominatered going to be true believes in trump. and in those races, you can hang this on and say if you hand over control to republicans, all they're going to do is basically engage in retribution on kon donald trump's behalf. i think that picture is really important. because whether people say i
5:55 pm
want to save democracy or not, it will help a democratic turnout, we hope that will help. but with swing voters, we want them to focus on their problems, not necessarily fight a rear guard action on donald trump. we have keep this front and center. and i think you're going to have to try to find the pockets of voters. where this is the thing that dates them and reaches and communicates with them. >> so, there was one data point that i found interesting in some sense, as encouraging and it came as poll that was brutel for biden. it has approve rating at 33%. this is not a poll that's over sampling democrats or anything like that. but in the same poll, the same group of people, would you like to see trump run for president in 2024? >> 59% of americans. i thought that's a pretty striking response there. and says something, maybe that's hard to view under the surface
5:56 pm
of his current control of the party over how unpopular he is broadly. >> yes, but part of the problem is democrats, at least in the few elections we've seen so far, have not been successful when they've tried to link donald trump to republicans. at looegs the republicans, who know how to speak as a slightly more code edterm and it's going to depend on how much trump's influence ends up putting forward the candidates who are most slavishly and openly devoted to him. >> i thinkall see, david, there's a few aspects. we're talking about the segment. the youngkin example in virginia. frankly, tried to tie him to trump, tried to have it both ways. he succeeded in having it both ways.
5:57 pm
i think that's harder in house and senate races. and i think he's going to be more front and center for the party this year, both because of the investigations, the january 6th committee, possible indictments and because of the nature of his connection to house and senate candidates. >> well, there's no question. so much of this, michelle said, will be determined by who comes out of the primaries. listen, he hasn't ruled out serving the speaker of the house and my guess is he won't for a long time because he wants to torture kevin mccarthy. but that poll is fascinating. the problem as an american is the 33% who want him to run a lot of those are republican primary runners. i think something interesting's happened. mike round stood up to him and the sun came out the next day. my personal view, chris, is i don't think he's going to run. we're this close to losing democracy because he lost to joe biden. imagine if he thinks he might not win the nomination.
5:58 pm
i think the interesting thing is you may see more republicans -- for anyone thinking of running for president in 2024, for most of them this is it. i think more people are going to take shots at this guy. but yeah, i think at the end of the day, we're going to see who comes out of the primaries and a lot of them are like youngkin, they were basically romney 2.0. i think they want to reward republicans who don't all throw in with the trump charade. i think that's the question is who comes out of these and in particular, there's going to be the maga candidate who emerges. and i think you have an opportunity to tie it to them. >> and the opportunity is the macro economic operations. and he said it, right, if the disruptions continue, and it
5:59 pm
feels like what on earth is going on, nothing works or is normal and you can't buy things at the store and things are expensive and everything is still off kilter. they're screwed and it gets better. they've got a fighting chance and that's the core reality. >> right. i understand their frustration because a lot of what's going wrong in america right now is not joe biden's fault. it's not his fault we have omicron variant. not his fault we have inflation. and ultimately, american life is extremely distopian and people thought the bind era was going to be an exit for distopia. >> that's the big question. is can they -- can things get better? and david, the sort of bull case is if inflation comes down, if omicron is the last big wave and you're in a position where the promise of exit from distopia, that you can run on the record. in the midterms, that gives you
6:00 pm
a fighting chance. >> and to turn that not into a referendum on joe biden and the democrats but to a choice. that's the big thing. there's no message at the end of the week. no talking point. no ad. so, until that happens. so, until that happens, we're going to be stuck in political purgatory. >> we're in agreement. let's end the pandemic. we solved it. thank you both. that is "all in" on this thursday night. good evening, rachel. >> thanks, my friend. much appreciated. and thanks, at home for joining us this hour. what a day this has been. this has been a day where mysteries were solved, things were revealed, stufr we suspected turned out to be true. turns out it was rudy. here's the front page at right now.