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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  January 20, 2022 10:00pm-11:00pm PST

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all right, that is going to do it for us tonight. hoping for a slower news day tomorrow, because today was crazy. it's time for the last word with lawrence i have been tryir
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the last 30 minutes. literally stormed in outer oval to get him to put out the first one. it is completely insane. it was also insane in trump's white house when it's. when the president called them in a conspiracy to illegally change the vote count. recording of that oval made by georges secretary of state is in full and complete pleat indictment of donald trump. the district attorney in
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atlanta asked the judge today to convene in a special grand jury that cannot be defied by anyone named trump or anyone else. that is real prosecutorial subpoena power. we will have more on the georgia administration -- investigation later in this hour. donald trump's life as a defendant began in earnest. he was already -- that claims donald trump raped her in new york city in the 1990s, but he was soon on the way to be a criminal defendant with a criminal investigation in new york city and criminal investigation of georgia states, he is soon going to be coming a -- donald trump head use the presidency for four years to avoid the charges with crimes,
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including investing -- and he use the presidency to refuse to submit to due process in the case and the investigation. that was all one year ago today at 12 noon. the president traction of the presidency was ripped away from the defendant of donald trump. he has been indicted for criminal pack -- his chief officer of the trump businesses has been indicted for crimes in donald trump's office, and the january six committee is building a in indictments on january six for what could be the most -- for the january 6th attack on the capitol. it is now clear, as we noted previously on this program, that the most important guiding documents of the january six committee's investigation is actually available to all of
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us. the best selling book, peril by bob murdered and -- . it is rare to have ivanka trump in testimony, but it is already been obtained from army general keith kellogg who is already served as a -- the questions in that testimony released today seem to be based directly on the passage in bob woodward and robert costa's book outlining this episode. here is the testimony version. quote, question it is been reported by the president and the vice president, you don't have the courage to make a hard decision. and you may not exact those exact words. do you remember anything like that? >> i don't remember exactly either but it's something like that. being like yeah you're not tough enough to make the call. another report of this phone call is that trump said, it's
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not right. you can do this. i'm counting on you to do it. if you don't do it, i picked the wrong man four years ago. you're going to limp out. do you remember anything like? that words like that yes, i can't exactly, i can't, it's tough, yeah. the letter to a biker trump goes on to say, general kellogg also testify regarding remarks at the close of the call. ivanka trump turned to me and said mike pence is a good man. i said, yes he is. here is a passage from bob woodward and -- that the committee seem to be using as a guide in those questions. mike, this is not right, trump said calling from the oval office. mike you can do this. i'm calling on you to do it. if you don't do it i'm picked the wrong man four years ago. you're going to win pal! trump said. his anger was visible to others in the oval office, including his daughter i've anna. she turned to keith kellogg.
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mike pence is a good man. i know. the books in that scene appear in quotation marks. a general of bob woodward's books has been, that words appear in their participated in the conversation or was president when those words were said. but for the ones that you, you are usually hearing from someone who spoke those words or heard those words. keith kellogg is a cooperating witness of the january six committee. he responded to their subpoena without hesitation. it appears possible, even likely, that keith kellogg was the cooperating witness in bob woodward and's -- book. joining us tonight is a member of the january six committee and he is chair of the house intelligence committee, present
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senator chef, i don't know if use the conversation with rachel at the beginning of this hour. what's she is investigated in the letter today is the video outtakes of trump's attempts to create a video that would be publicly released on january 6th. and rachel, and i'm asking her question directly, wants to know, do you believe, or have evidence that eggs that video actually exists? and the committee will obtain the video. she recognizes, as we all do, that obtaining documents is one thing to maintain a situation like this, but do you believe that the video is there formerly to -- >> well first of all, i don't know if it's fair if both of you ask me questions on one shell. and we will try not to release too much on a friday. you know that does violates order. i think it likely exists. we don't know for sure.
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but presumably, things like that would be covered by record keeping requirements. and unless they went and deleted the tapes, they should exist. and certainly, they are within the scope of what we are requesting. so, it is my hope but not expectation that they do exist. and it is certainly my expectation that if they do exist, we will get them. >> requiring another passage from the testimony that we released today, in the letter to ivan called trump this is keith kellogg's testimony to this committee. question, do you think that she ironically trump, would get president trump to a place where he would make a statement to try to stop this. so you think that or ivanka trump could get her father to do something about? it answer to take the course of action.
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question, he didn't say yes to mark meadows or kayleigh mckenna name or keith kellogg, but he might say yes was not? or answer. yes. and question, and so presumably the first time she went in it wasn't sufficient or she wouldn't have to have gone back at least one more time. i assume. is that correct? answer, well yes. what's testimony do you want from i've uncle trump to add to what you have from keep catalog already? >> itch as you gather from those question and answers, you have multiple people to try to answer to do something about the violence. and it is evident that i've uncle trump would have a big enough influence on her father, that maybe she could do what others feel to do. so we would like to hear from her directly. what's efforts with she -- wet efforts we did she
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participated in? to get donald trump to say something or do something about police officers who were beaten and gouge while the capital was being ransacked. we also have testimony indicating that she was president during a phone call between the former president and the former vice president on the subject of donald trump trying to get mike pence to avoid his constitutional duty. to certify and count balances to fulfill that mints need serial obligation. we also think that she may have information about whether her father resisted calls to bring in the national guard, and what is the necessity of tamping down allegations if that was the case. so that is who i would like to hear from. and -- >> i just want to remind the audience that they are well
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aware of, ivanka trump at the time was understood as donald trump's daughter. that is the status that most people see as. but at the time she was a government employee who had taken on north of office, and that oath required her to protect and defend the constitution against all enemies, including domestic enemies who carry that have been in the oval office. so herself that day to adhere to, as she carried out her work. >> that is exactly right. you would hope that in the absence of such an oath, people feel a sense of duty and -- that yes, she was all say a high-level advisor to the former president. she had taken an oath, presumably, and in proposition
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-- preparation of taking that position. so she would've had an obligation as well. >> so to trump's took an oath, one as the president and one of the adviser to the president. we know right now how all trump feel about testifying under oath. and i think we know as we sit here, i won't speak for you or the committee, of uncut trump is not gonna show up. she is not going to cooperate. will the committee subpoena her? >> we have not made a decision about that. we have been surprised by people we thought would resist who actually came in and did not try to fight our subpoenas or came in voluntarily. we do get surprised. and we hope that in this case that she would be the one to come forward. she clearly has evidence about the attack that day and what the president did and even more
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important, what the president did not do. so we hope again that she will do her civil duty, but if she does not we will have to figure out what the next steps are. >> in court, subpoenaing witnesses sometimes with their -- while the trial continues, they are still in effect under subpoena so they could be called back. is that the way that these subpoenas work in this -- the fact that kyiv color responded this to -- for private under oath testimony. does that mean that you can call him back under the same subpoena to testify under these televised hearings? >> we can definitely call them back again. i will have to look at the terms of the specific subpoena to see if we need to issue as new subpoena or not. we probably don't need to, i think you are right. that leads to informed witnesses at the end of the testimony and it may be to
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bring them back because there may be new evidence that comes forward. we won't hesitate to use it when necessary. >> we saw developments in georgia today about donald trump's phone call to the georgia secretary of state. your investigation has referred to that material also. they are also considering in that some way. have you had any communications with the district attorney in fulton county about not overlapping with her investigation in such a way that might be, or creates, problems with your investigation or hers? >> we are certainly very much looking into the situation in georgia. we have heard from witnesses in that subject. i cannot go into communications that we may or may not have with the fulton county district attorney. but i have to say, looking at the headlines that you showed on the screen earlier about her
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seeking to empanel a special grand jury, the question it raises for me is what's why is there no headline for the u.s. department of justice to look into these allegations? that was an act of potential fraud between the united states and the people of georgia. the united states federal presidential election, and the -- should be waiting for the u.s. congress to be looking into that. i feel like it was a very credible -- based on that phone call that the president was seeking to defraud the people of georgia. so i applaud the fulton county district attorney, but i do have this question of why they don't have any indication of the u.s. department of justice looking into this issue. >> the problem that occurred within the justice department at the time, at the very time
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just donald trump was trying to interfere in their -- the u.s. attorney quit very suddenly, apparently under pressure from the white house. because he was not doing anything to reverse the election counting in georgia, and they're all seems to be a piece with the justice department having an obvious -- to clean their own house in that situation. >> absolutely, i would add to that the fact there is reporting at very high levels of the justice department about that issue with the u.s. attorney. who had an effort to decapitate the leadership of the justice department. install someone like jeffrey clark who is pushing to have states like georgia delay the appointment of electors, legislative electors, or sent in an alternate slate of electors. there was plenty to look at. it may go beyond the scope or
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capability of a local county district attorney's office, no matter how capable that district attorney maybe. well, we are in the next segment, is going to be joining the next guest who is a former u.s. attorney who has been on this very subjects. thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> thank you. >> thank you. coming up, atlanta district attorney is looking to convene a special grand jury to subpoena witnesses for a special grand jury to -- asking for 11,780 votes, she says senator -- will be one of those subpoenaed under oath witnesses. that's next. under oath witnesses
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of state, mr. raffensperger,
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told them in october. that the criminal investigation of donald trump's interview periods in the vote count. >> if she wants to interview me, there is a process for that and i will gladly participate because i want to make sure i follow the law, follow the process q xin, and -- >> well, he is going to get a grand jury summons now. she sent a judge -- requesting a special grand jury because she has filed, a reasonable probability, that the state and georgia's administration of electors in 2020 for president, that the united states was subject to possible criminal disruptions. district attorney willis told the judge, a significant amount of witnesses and prospective witnesses have refused to cooperate with the investigation absent a subpoena requiring their testimony.
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secretary of state, raffensperger is an example of a key witness who has refused to cooperate without a subpoena issued by the grand jury. she attach a transcript of the -- to the letter. >> joining me now is michael j. more, former u.s. attorney general to -- for atlanta. and eugene thompson -- and eugene robinson is for the washington post, an msnbc political analyst. give us your reaction to the totality of what we have learned today about this request for a grand jury. and if you will address that issue that i was addressing with jeff, what about a federal investigation, what used to be your judge job in georgia, a federal investigation of the same situation? >> well, i am glad to be with you, thank you for having me
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back. i was not surprised to see the district attorney asked for the special grand jury. i think she was a little bit late in doing so. really this is the belt and suspenders for her on whether she has enough to prove the case. but they deal about this before, is so much evidence in the case tape that is out there right now. and there is a plethora of public statements made by these potential witnesses in the public record. as you said, there was a new story attached to the letter here. i think she is trying to get some people under oath. i don't think she needs that. it tells me that she may be looking at a broader investigation, is there conspiracy? is there is some type of -- i don't know that she necessarily needs to have that out. a big proponent of the prosecution is to charge somebody with approvable kyrie. and as far as he goes, i'm not
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particularly surprised, he is in a heated election with a trump loyalist for his job. it appears, or he wants to make it appear, that his participation would make a -- i would like to see some movement from the department of justice on the federal level, i think that there are resources available and a broader picture nationwide when you have multiple states involved in what's seems to be now, the stories coming about about the a coordinated efforts by certain individuals including people on the campaign. that tells me that they are rooting for a federal case. and hopefully we will see those things add a -- on this case going forward. >> eugene robinson, such a
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fascinating cast here with far any wellness who was sworn in as district attorney on january 1st. the next day. the president of the united states make a phone call to georgia, to atlanta, inward appears to be a criminal phone call. trying to criminally change the vote count in the presidential race. >> yes. and it sounds awfully darn criminal to me. it is, i understand the frustration of those who wonder why it is taking this long. and if the special grand jury needs to compel the testimony or release the tape recording of the criminal act. that is undisputed. it's clear. but, as you said, she is a
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noose district attorney who has a lot to work on including a backlog of cases that have been ordinary cases caused by the pandemic. we cannot yet know if he's looking at something broader, or she is going to go deeper on raffensperger. i share everyone's -- the u.s. justice department. it is entirely possible that there is a lot going on and things that you do not know about. but it concerns me that a really well connected reporter is getting leaks, and hints, and who lifts of grand jury that could be empaneled and worrying ahead -- potential prosecution is really needed. >> let us listen to what the jury will be listening to if donald trump is charged with a
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crime in that phone call. in the jury room they will be considering exactly these words. let's listen to this. >> so, look, all i want to do is this. i just want to find 11,780 votes is which is one more than we have. have. >> assistant district attorney, stressing to this portion of what he said. all i want to do is this. and all he wants to do is to magically create those numbers. he doesn't say, this is what i want to do. i want you to go back in and conduct a very fair recount. and when you conduct that very very count, the following results occurs. no, all i want you to do, is give me that number. >> the proof in this case is
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the intent. was there criminal intent? and i think that is the perry mason moment. if he says no, all i really want to do is for you to find me enough votes that i win. that is not anything other than criminal intent. in my view, i doubt a grand jury will look at it differently. the, a special grand jury cannot and itself hand out an indictment. can hand out a subpoena, file testimony, that sort of thing. i just can't imagine how you could decide that there is not something wrong with that. >> michael j. more, quickly, before we go. if the case is as simple as i believe it is. could it be that phony willis sees that, sees the simplicity of that, sees the smoking gun, and with these subpoenas are
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about, locking in, whatever helpful under oath testimony that she can. but she is basically ready to go. this is the final stage. it's not a possibility? >> it is a possibility. you don't have to have this possibly fully put together to go to a grand jury. to seek an indictment. just the probable cause of the crime has been committed. when i was she would do, is bring the regular case to regular jury and play the tape, see if they will indict the former president. you don't need testimony from roethlisberger. he wrote a book about all this. just impeach him with his book. that's all you've got to have. it looks to me like she is just trying to broaden it out. trying to button it up. maybe she wants to get to some other people that she thinks might be in the political mix. but she is enough to rifle shot this thing. lineup the former president right behind a bank swab or, cardiac, or indict him like you would anyone else.
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crimes in the city of atlanta and fulton county. and that to me would be one way to separate and get on with the case. >> former georgia federal prosecutor robert j. more, and eugene robinson, thank you very much for joining, us appreciate it. thank you. congresswoman katie porter joins us next. we'll be right back. porter joins us next. we'll be right back. ♪ when you have nausea, ♪ ♪ heartburn, ingestion, upset stomach... ♪ ♪ diarrheaaaa.♪ try pepto bismol with a powerful coating action. for fast and soothing relief. pepto bismol for fast relief when you need it most.
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the biggest increase ever. and for the first time in a long time, this country's working people actually got a race. >> joining us now is democratic representative katie porter of california. she's a member of the house oversight committee and deputy chair of the house progressive caucus. and she has a white board with her tonight. representative porter, we heard president biden yesterday residing at the beginning of his press conference, the accomplishments of his first year in office. achieved with the democrats in congress. are people out there experiencing a effects of those accomplishments. that they might not necessarily realize. come from the work that you, the democrats and congress did with the president and achieved legislatively this year? >> absolutely. i think it is important to remember where we were one year ago, when president biden was sworn in. families were struggling to put
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food on the table. they are still continuing to have a lot of job losses. schools were closed. we are in a much better situation today. in fact, where our economy is today is quite remarkable. we now have in fact the fastest growing economy in this country that we have had in decades. so the american rescue plan, which congress passed into law very quickly upon biden's election. actually has resulted in very fast economic growth. so the united states today is experiencing about 5.5% growth in gdp. now when you compare this to our other nations. the g7. seven most advanced economies in the world, our global competitive's. none of them are even net positive for gdp growth. a measure of our economy. we are seeing the same story with unemployment. unemployment today is down to 3.9%. unemployment.
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the last time we had a major financial crisis in this country, following the great recession in the bake crisis. it took ten years to get unemployment back down. we have hit this 3.9% unemployment number two years faster. and if we had not elected president biden and we had not passed the american rescue plan and most directly, most immediately for families, they have more money to spend each month. the average american family has 354 more dollars each month. accounting for inflation. so even taking into account the destruction of the supply chain. the fact that some big corporations are price gouging consumers. even adjusting for inflation. the average american has an extra $354 a month. and i will tell you, that money makes a real difference to american families. >> let me just go over that last point. that is a new number to me. you are saying, that the actual
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disposable income of americans has increased during this period of inflation where we think of inflation as eating away at people's actual spending bill income. >> absolutely. this is disposable income in real dollar change. so, accounting for inflation. adjusting for the fact that prices on some things have gone up. the typical american. the average american. has 354 more dollars each month. this is a big number. this is a lot of people's car payments. this is a lot of people's after school payments for their kids. this is several trips to the grocery store. even for me, with 300 kids. this is real money in americans pop gets. and directly a result of the economic agenda. and american rescue plan. directly addressing the needs of american families. >> what do you hope to accomplish given some of the limitations posed by joe manchin. what do you hope to accomplish
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in the second year, working with the president legislative? >> look, the problems -- we have the fastest growing economy that we have had a long time, we just went over the. gdp is up. unemployment is down. more money in families pockets. but even with these positive economic changes, the reality is that there are still problems. there are still structural problems in our economy that we need to solve. and this is a really cool white board because it reverses. i want to talk about what the costs are of not acting. with the cost is of having joe manchin and others block action in the senate. for example, if we do not have passed legislation to allow medicare to negotiate drug prices. we are losing eight billion dollars a year. this is what it cost tax payers. because medicare cannot negotiate drug prices. we have to pass this
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legislation to get this done. this is a problem even in the strongest economy. because essentially, we allow drug companies to hold americans hostage. similarly, unemployment. if we do not pass meaningful legislation to address climate change, we are spending right now, 145 billion dollars a year. cleaning up and dealing with the consequences of climate related disasters. wildfires, floods. 145 billion dollars. this price tag, the price tag of not acting, makes the cost of passing this legislation look cheap. and this one is my favorite. one trillion dollars. this is the cost of not fully funding the irs. and so, per year, this is the lost money. so if we would do these things. if we would take action. bring down the cost of prescription drugs.
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eight billion dollars a year saved. take action to address climate change, 145 billion dollars in savings. fully fund our irs, so that everybody pays with they already oh. this isn't making any changes to the tax. making sure we let the irs collect the taxes they are already owed in doing. these are the cost of not acting. so when we hear people say that the bill would cause this much, the legislation would cost this much. i think it is very important that the american people understand what president biden is trying to do. will congress is trying to do with these changes. to actually save money. that is what is on the table for year two and it is really important that we take these actions now while we do have a strong economy. and that is what president biden is setting us up to do in year two. >> as you mentioned, i've not heard joe manchin and his concerns about inflation ever mentioned prescription drug prices as part of the inflation. >> no, but it is absolutely true. prescription drug prices,
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childcare costs. these are some of the fastest growing. some of the fastest-growing areas of expense. and when you talk to families, even as they're having more income, there are some of these prices and some of these costs that are going up. and we need to address them. and the time to do it is now. when you have low unemployment, when we have the gdp growth. this is the time to begin to address the structural problems. and again, the price tag of legislating gets so much attention. it doesn't get enough attention, is the price tag of not acting. >> representative katie porter, thank you so much for bringing a clarity to this subject that i could never achieved myself. and i don't know who else to turn to fort, thank you very much for delivering that for us tonight. >> thank you. >> coming up, the most important accomplishment by president biden in his first year that is always completely ignored by the news media. not a single question yesterday
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about something that joe biden a conscious in year one that no president has accomplished in his first year since john kennedy did it in 1961. we are going to insert a commercial break right here so that you will have time to guess what that accomplishment is, we'll be right back. we'll be right back. ♪wouldn't you like to get away? ♪ ♪ ♪ sometimes you want to go ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪and they're always glad you came ♪ welcome to allstate. where auto insurance now costs less. ♪ now save more with allstate. you're in good hands with allstate. call a local agent or 1-888-allstate
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history, george h. w. bush. who's last year in office was 1992. clarence thomas has had much more impact on the way that we live then the first president bush did. as chairman of the senate judiciary committee, joe biden used to be in the business of confirming federal judges and so he knows the importance of that more fully than any previous president. and that is why he has beaten all of his recent predecessors in the first year confirmations of federal judges. joe biden's confirmed 42 federal judges is almost double what donald trump confirmed in his first year. you have to go all the way back to 1961 to find a first year presidency confirming more federal judges then joe biden has confirmed. and that was president kennedy.
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this is the single most important achievement of the biden presidency didn't. we'll live long after the biden presidency. and it is ignored by the news media as it was in yesterday's press conference. ignored as if it did not happen. joining us now is russell willard. leader of studies at the williams institute. thank you for joining. us what do you say in this very rapid pace of judicial reports by president biden? >> i see the president as you alluded to. who came into office determined to amp up the employment of federal judges. and what you cited is a good indication as you got. when i would point out though is that john kennedy did when judges were confirmed routinely with unanimous consent motions. biden has had a pretty vigorous opposition from the republican senate. almost all of his appointees have been approved on very
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narrow margins. and it has taken 3 to 4 months to get them confirmed. go back to ronald reagan, judge confirmed a month or so. so the ball game has changed in a fundamental way. and i think you have to hand it to the biden administration for getting it out quite quickly. and getting judges in office. i have to say also, and i'm not the first one to mention this. these judges are remarkable in their adversity. he has appointed, of those 42 that you mentioned, only two of them are white males. and that is not the most important criteria. but it indicates, to broaden the face of the judiciary. something that president carter started. he has taken it to new heights. he is also appointed about a third of his appointment, some experience of public defenders. and that is a big increase over his present assessors as well. so, it is a very interesting story. a very important story. as you said, it tends to get
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under reported. with the intention of the supreme court. in many ways, the action is really in the district courts and courts of appeals. >> how would you describe to voters, the lasting impact of federal judicial appointments. >> you gave the example. as president, judges are serving long after the presidents are out of office. on the federal courts now. not a majority. active judges are all -- next as president obama. because these judges have tenure for wildlife. they can discern 20, 25 years. i don't know what more you can say than that. of course, the federal courts, although they're dwarfed by the state courts, they punch about their way. they have the most important economic cases. following the federal courts
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protection of civil rights. economic regulations. so state courts are the workhorses of the system. but the federal courts have a very important niche. >> russell wheeler, thank you very much for joining us tonight on this important subject that you know so well, we really appreciate it. tonight's last word is next. tonight's last word is next.
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cooperate with its investigation. its first attempt to seek information directly from a member of the former presidents family. today, house investigators sent her an eight-page letter. full of never before seen details, revealing the evidence that has been collected. and the focus of her inquiry letter asked the daughter about her contact with her father. as they were in the white house as the capital was under siege. it cites one of those moments. saying quote, as january 6th approached, president trump attempted on multiple occasions to persuade vice president pence to participate in his plan. one of the presidents discussions with the vice president occurred by phone on the morning of january 6th. you were presidents in the oval office and observed at least one side of that telephone conversation. and quote. ivanka trump's efforts to get the former president to call off the attack at the capitol are also under scrutiny. testimony from