tv The Rachel Maddow Show MSNBC January 26, 2022 1:00am-2:00am PST
following pretty closely the new revelations and renew reporting recently about republicans in multiple states after the last election creating these fake documents, these forgeries, in which he asserted the electors from their states even though they even though they really weren't. they were not the real electors. they sent those forged documents. they signed them, they sent them into congress to be counted in electoral college. they sent the documents to the national archives as well on the show. we talked about new reporting from politico which indicates that investigators at the national archives have themselves apparently open into federal investigation, into one set of forged fake republican electors from arizona in the case of that investigation. we have also reported on
attorney generals in two states, as a matter for federal criminal prosecution. well, tonight, the story moves forward, thanks to a very rare interview that cnn scored with deputy attorney general lisa monaco. cnn has not now the u.s. department to investigate, to investigate the forgeries to investigate the republican electoral forgeries as potential federal crimes. quote, federal prosecutors are reviewing fake electoral college certifications that declared former president trump the winner of states that he lost according to deputy attorney general lisa monaco. the federal prosecutors are looking at those and i can't say more about ongoing investigations.
if the only people are only going to be investigated for that plot to overthrow the u.s. government were the low-level people who took part in the smash and grab violent part of the scheme that played out at the u.s. capitol on january 6th last year. well, now, we know there are ongoing investigations into another pat of the plot. into another part of the plot that didn't unfold violently on the capitol grounds on january 6th. remember, this thing appeared to operate at three bake levels. at least this is the three levels -- i find it easier to sort of keep the whole thing in mind. if i think about it in terms of these three different levels of the scheme. first, it was in the states. first level was in the states. in the states they invented or
ginned up fake claims of voter fraud as a pretext calling into question the election results in those states. states in which biden won where republican officials were in power in state government. owe republican officials would conceivably have power how the election results would be handled. we now know to gin up fault election claims to falsify or problematize the states, it called up for republicans forging fake elector certifications and sending them in as if trump won. that was the first scheme of what they operated. it is what they did in the states. the second level was at the u.s. justice department where they cooked up the scheme to try to validate and endorse the made-up fraud claims in the state. to give backup or even give
instructions to republican-led state governments that they should falsify election results in this state. they should throw out election recalls with the intramotter and gravitas and authority. first in the states, second at the u.s. justice department. and then there was the third level which was the pressure on the vice president. it put enormous pressure on vice president mike pence to throw the count. to sabotage the actual count of the electoral votes. refuse to count the real electors of republicans in states where the vote was contested. any state they sent in forged electors against the real ones, that's enough of a dispute in the states that you can't discern who the real electors are. so for that state, you shouldn't have the state counted at all. maybe there should be a delay. or put off the inauguration a
little while while we look into the competing slates a little longer. that's basically how i have argued this in my head in order to try to keep in mind the different ways in which this was operating. and i confess -- i concede, that we will learn more in the days ahead. i can almost guarantee you as long as the january 6th investigation keeps doing its work, we will find out more. in terms what we know now, those are the three basic battleground where is they needed people to do stuff. they needed either their loyalists in place or they needed to pressure, intimidate, cajole and corrupt officials to help the scheme. and states and justice department and in that senate chamber where mike pence was counting the votes on january 6th. the mob that attacked the capitol on january 6th was just the muscle to help with the intimidation factor for that part of the scheme.
until tonight we had not seen the u.s. justice department shown any interest in investigating or prosecuting anybody other than the muscle, the mob that showed up to play that one part at the end of the plot on january 6th itself. now, tonight, this is a change. now, tonight, for the first time, u.s. justice department says there are ongoing federal investigations into the electoral forgeries, too. forgeries that we know were carried out in at least five states in a coordinated fashion. forgeries that we know from the january 6th investigation and from good new reporting in recent days, we know those coordinated forgeries were organized agency part of a conspiracy led by the trump campaign with at least full knowledge of the white house chief of staff mark meadows. if those forgeries are going to be investigated and potentially prosecuted as federal crimes, the next big question will, of course, be, well, again, you go
for the low-level people? or do you just from the people who actually signed their names to those false documents? or do you prosecute the conspiracy? do you prosecute the people who came up with the scheme, the people who put those fake electors up to it. who organized the whole thing, who gave them, you know, the mad lib color by document template documents that they all seemed to have used at least in five states to carry out these forgeries and send them. do you once again go for the little fish? or do you go for the people who cooked up the scheme? we shall see. i'll tell you, we're going to have another update on this story coming in a few minutes as well, specifically out of wisconsin. you know, we do have footage, it's funny, because these are being treated as a potential federal crime now. we have video footage of the alleged crime being committed in some cases.
footage of these forged documents being signed. or in some cases we have at least some of these people who participated in the forgeries on the day they did. in nevada, for example, the fake electors, here they are, december 14th, they set themselves up right outside the nevada state capitol and declared they were the duly elected electors from the state of nevada in which they were not. in michigan, next, on that same date, december 14th, we have footage of republicans claiming to be the state electors when they were not, demanding to be let into the michigan state capitol. that was while the real electors were actually inside. it's that memorable footage that we've seen several times, the michigan state place saying, no, the actual electors are inside the capitol. we're closing the door, you cannot come in. we have footage how this went
down on december 14th in a few different states. it's interesting, in the state of wisconsin, they didn't get stuck outside in the cold with a card table setup outside the state capitol. they didn't end up like in michigan, banging on the door trying to get past the state police. in wisconsin, the republican fake electors actually had the benefit of signing their forgeries, signing their fake paperwork inside the state capitol, in a ceremonial room, just down the hall in the state capitol from where the real electors were meeting at that same moment. how did they get in? who let them in? interesting story, it turns out. earlier this month, a democratic state senator from wisconsin, wisconsin state senator, chris larsen, he sent a letter to prosecutors asking for an update as to whether or not any criminal investigation was goes nont state on these forgeries, and if not, why not. in addition to that letter to the prosecutors, senator larsen
also thought to ask, hey, who let the republican electors into the state capitol that day, into an official meeting room for them to conduct this alleged crime, for them to create this forged document, in a way that sort of made it look real, made it look official? again, this happened december 14th, 2020. the state capitol of wisconsin was formally closed to the public that day because of covid. it was only open for official business. there was no official business under way when a bunch of republicans got together and signed forged paperwork pretending to be wisconsin's electors when they were no such thing. that wasn't official business. the real electors had official business, they didn't. someone in wisconsin thought to ask, well, since they didn't have official business that day, how did they get in the capitol? how did they get a reserved room inside the capitol to commit that alleged crime? well, is it senator chris larsen
is going to join us in a few minutes to talk about this, because he now appears to have figured out the correct answer. it looks like the person implicated in this is now a sitting member of u.s. congress, as in u.s. congress, that appears to be the person who will provided the scene of the crime. who provided an official meeting room for this unofficial forgery ceremony, for which these wisconsin republicans might ultimately find themselves at the end of a -- potentially a federal prosecution. so, anyway, it has all taken sort of a weird turn. this story continues to take weird turns. particularly on this night when the justice department has finally confirmed that this part of the scam is under federal investigation. we've got all of that coming up tonight. lots interesting developing on that story we've been covering so closely. plus, we've got a bunch of interesting news on covid. something truly weird happening
in florida that's going to happen in large part tomorrow that you should know about tonight so you're forewarned what is going to happen tomorrow in florida on covid. also the biden administration's plans coming to fruition in a way that's going to make practical change for a lot of american families. we've got a lot to get to, a lot to talk about. before we get to our first guest, though, there is one story i just want to put on your radar here. sort of put your antenna out for to watch for in the news. i find this absolutely astonishing. it's not really getting coverage in this country at this point. i'm hoping to change that because i think it deserves a lot of attention. and you should definitely know about it. all right. here's the story. today, you may have seen the headlines that the bipartisan leadership in both houses of congress got a classified briefing from senior national security officials on this question of whether russia is going to invade ukraine again and what the u.s. and our allies
are going to try to stop that from happening if russia does go ahead and do it. a classified briefing for congressional leadership is a serious and ominous thing. another serious and ominous thing on this front, we reported yesterday the state department has not only put out a travel advisory telling u.s. citizens to not travel to that part of the world right now. but they've also sent home family members of people who work at the u.s. embassy in ukraine. again, sort of an ominous sign. russia did that with family members of people who work at their embassy in kyiv. thousands on heightened alert. there are reports that the u.s. is considering deployments to backstop some of our allies in the region. that could potentially happen with short notice. and military to backstop our own military in case of russian invasion. there's a lot going on in terms
of another potential putin war. but nobody actually knows if he plans to do it. nobody knows if he plans to do it now. especially since he started this military buildup up on ukraine's borders months ago and it's been building, and building, and building, incidentally, i don't know if he cares there's no sign all those months he's building up support on the ukrainian border there's no support that support is building with the russian people for russia to launch another war there. that's the nice thing about doing away with democracy. who cares what the people think. it's not like they get to decide who their leaders are. here's a piece of it worth a heads-up. in norway, back in november, there was a weird and unsolved consequential case of underwater sabotage. off the coast of northern norway, the government there
operates a field of underseas sensors that among other things can detect the movement of passing submarines. unexpectedly and in a still unexplained incident back in november, someone or something, cut the cables linking those underseas sensors to their control stations on the shore. cables were ripped out. the sensors themselves were missed with. but the cables were cut. and suspicion immediately fell on russia, particularly because they have the cavity to mess with undersea cables and they've done so before. but the incident officially remains unsolved although a lot of government sources have been indicating that their top suspect in this sabotage is the russian military. that happened in november. then two weeks ago, it happened again. another set of undersea cables off the coast of norway were mysteriously cut. this time it was cables that
among other things they supplied data to a huge commercial ground satellite array. a satellite array that russia has been complaining about for years. russia says they think that satellite array is being secretly used for military communications when it's supposed to be. but that satellite array is not used for anything now because the cables again appear to have been messed with. the cables appear to have been cut. this has happened twice off the coast of norway just in the last couple of months. then there's ireland. a couple months before the first set of norwegian undersea cables was mysteriously cut, a couple months before that, the irish government got righteously freaked out when this russian ship turned up across from
donegal. and in terms of its technical capacity, lots of governments around the world think that this is a huge spy ship. and they think specifically the russian navy built this ship to target undersea cables. among other things, this ship can launch a bunch of different small manned submarines that can dive super deep. that can dive like 20,000 feet deep. and when this ship turned up off the coast of -- west coast of ireland, here's how the "times" reported on irish worries that that russian ship maneuvering off the irish coast might be messing with undersea cables and communications. you see the head line, russian spy ship monitored coast of donegal. the part of the russian navy arrived unexpectedly off the donegal coastline on tuesday night. again, this is in august last
year. the vessel is equipped with manned and remote operated submersibles used to attach listening devices to undersea cables that carry internet traffic between the continents. there's at least one commercial. the ship spent the early hours of wednesday morning traversing the seas to the north of mayo and west of donegal in a zigzag fashion using sonar. and it moved to a location west of the killybegs fishing harbour yesterday afternoon before moving further out into the atlantic. the vessel's behavior was described as highly suspicious by military sources. again that was august. lots freaking out about that russian spy ship, particularly in it's vicinity of the cables.
and what the russians are doing in advance potential of its next invasion of ukraine. well, next week, again, off the coast of ireland, russia says it's going to mount naval war game exercises. this comes right off the heels of that spy ship off of donegal. ireland is still really rattled, the undersea cables, literally, the cables that connect europe to north america may have already been targeted by russian ships recently. and since then, in norway, they've had two different sets of undersea cables cut under very suspicious circumstances. and now russian naval forces are coming back to the irish coast for war games next week. look at this, here's "the irish times." the exact location of the drill is an area known as the porcupine seabight southwest of
cork. it is causing anxiety in ireland. military sources say it's not unheard of for foreign navies to conduct drills inside the irish economic zone, but, quote, they usually have a good reason for it makes sense for the irish navy to conduct exercises because that's ontheir door step but it doesn't make sense for the russian. one is psychological to remind nato of the russian navy's freedom of movement which may make nato members think twice about launching retaliatory action. another possibility is strategic. if the situation in ukraine deteriorates significantly, one of the first priorities of nato would likely be to box in as much of the russian fleet as possible into their ports. it is in russia's interests to disburse its ships in
international waters ahead of any eventuality. for ireland, the worst case scenario is that russia is positioning itself to disable the subsea infrastructure along the coast and connecting north america. it's due to take place directly above the nexus of the internet cables that connect north america and europe. cutting those cables would immediately cripple economies of nato countries and ireland. cutting the cables would be considered the perfect counterpunch. quote, if i wanted to invade ukraine and ham spring my opponents, i would want to cut those cables. it would be lights out for western europe. that's "the irish times." why ireland is so worried about
it. every country in the world, every country in the west is worried about russia potentially starting the prime war. everybody but our friends at prime time fox news who wouldn't mind a war. but elsewhere in the west, everybody is worried about it. and this is ireland's very specific concern of how they might be in the middle of it, and why they really do not really want to be in the middle of it. the problem because of ireland concerned about it as forewarned they are of it because of that russian spy ship turning up on their coast a few months ago there's not much ireland itself can do about it. ireland, no offense, but they do not have much of a navy. they don't have military radar in the entire country. they have navigational radar. ireland doesn't have a ship that's capable of launching a helicopter. they just don't have that kind of military capacity.
so what can they do? well, you know what ireland does have? to defend itself in this instance? it has very annoyed fishermen. irish fishermen who are so mad about what russia's going to do with these war games off their coast next week, that they, the fishermen say that they personally have a plan to stop it. >> fishermen say they're considering plans to peacefully disrupt russian naval exercises off the southwest coast next month. >> decision by the russian navy to conduct live gunnery and firing exercise 160 miles off the coast next month is causing concern at the pier. >> doing an exercise. >> the russian military exercise is due to take place over five
days near the porcupine bigrt. giving rise to fishing grounding and life. fishermen say up to 60 crawlers will fish in the area in peaceful protest in hope to disrupt the russian maneuvers. >> so our protest is our presence that we're going to continue to fish out there and we're raising the awareness that we're there when this is happening. the seas are our environment. it's where we should be safe, we shouldn't be dealing with this type of interference with our livelihoods and no communication about it. >> this evening, the russians have said they've spoken to the organization and understand the pilot's concerns any act to interfere would be a reckless
act that could put sailors and fishermen in harm's way. rte news. >> it's not like they're firing bows and arrows with them. fishermen say up to 60 trawlers will fish in the area. and our protest is our presence. they told politico today, quote, our boats will be going out to that area on the 1st of february to go fishing. when one boat needs to return to port, another will head out. so there's a continuous presence on the water. if that is in proximity to where the exercises are going on, we are expecting that the russian services will abide by anti-collision regulations. will abide by anti-collision regulations. that sounds well and good, but, sir, to be clear, do you mean that you're going to go out there in your little irish fishing boats and confront the navy? yes. yes, they are perfectly clear
this is what they're going to do. this is morning ireland this morning. >> are you planning to face down the russians then, patrick? >> well, we're entitled to go fishing in the areas outside there. this is our waters. let me put this it everybody. you can imagine if the russians were going on the mainland, how far would they get with that. it's no different to fisher marn. is this our ground. this is our farm. this is a very important ground where fish come to spawn, the mackerel, and we don't know what's going on out here. so, for us, we should be entitled to go fishing. and if they're fishing there, then these boats and these vessels, warships, shouldn't be having war games. and not only that, these war ships will be followed by submarines. we have gear out behind our boats. what if they get tangled in it? this has happened before. boats have been sank by these
vessels. this is a concern. we in our industry feel that nothing is being done here like everything else and we want to act. this is how we're going to act. >> it sounds a bit risky. >> it sounds a bit risky? indeed. but that is the plan, the whole world to vladimir putin's great delight, the whole world is on tinder hooks waiting to find out if russia is going to start the war. and irish fishermen are at it and going to fish for mackerel while they're at it. god bless every single one of them. we've got lots to get to. we'll be right back. o get to we'll be right back.
♪♪ you're watching msnbc. a month after the last presidential election, wisconsin's electors met. its official democratic electors met because joe biden won the state of wisconsin. they met here inside of wisconsin's tony evers' office to finalize. at the same time, a second group of republicans pretending to be
official electors also met inside the state capitol. today, we're learning new details about that second meeting during which the fake republican electors forged documents pretending to be the real deal. those republican electors presumably rented two rooms to carry out their scheme. they reserved this room in the capitol. and this very grand ceremony room, wisconsin state parlor room which served as a great background for forging elections. how did they get to meet in the state capitol, at the time that the state capitol was closed for covid. at a time when meeting space inside the capitol could only be requested by wisconsin state lawmakers? well, in this case, it appears that the fraudulent electors were able to get official meeting space inside the wisconsin state capital.
at the request of this man who is now a u.s. congressman scott fitzgerald. at the time he was congressman-elect fitzgerald ending his term in the senate. thanks to a records request we now know that the staff of now congressman fitzgerald, they reserved meeting space inside the capitol for the wisconsin republican party at the same date and time that those fraudulent electors convened. here's the email request that senator chris larson filed in the informations act here. this is from the senate sergeant at arms office. quote, sent, thursday, december 10th. booking extra parlor room. importance. high. quote, dan from fitzgerald called and would like to book the parlor monday thursday, december 10th, an outside group called republican party for dan.
can you please check on it. the parlor looked open to me but i don't know what's going on with everything happening on monday. everything happening on monday, of course, it was december 14th. that's the day that wisconsin was making it official that the state's ten votes in the electoral college would be cast for president biden. yeah, there was real work for the capitol that day, are we too busy to squeeze in a crime here? do we have the nice room for that? that was december 14th, a couple weeks later, january 3rd, congressman fitzgerald was sworn in. i can tell you his first act as a republic congressman was to cat his vote against joe biden. democratic state senator chris larson who got these emails said, quote, if congressman fitzgerald did indeed provide the capitol space in our state cal top for ten republicans to
dissuade our democracy, he must explain why he did so. joining us democratic state senator chris larson, he initiated this opens records request that revealed that congressman fitzgerald apparently reserved the meeting room for the electors. senator, thank you for having me here. >> thank you for covering this important story. >> this is a different piece of the story that you yourself have filed. thinking who is behind it. let me ask you if i explained anything wrong or misconstruing in terms of the importance that you found? >> no, you explained it excellently. the only thing i would add, this is the midst of wisconsin having the least active budget legislature in the entire country. so there was very limited
business happening in the capitol but then congressman fitzgerald sought to have this room literally steps away where the electors were meeting. >> it was closed because of covid, only open for official business. is it conceivable in your mind that congressman scott fitzgerald rented or reserved this room for his republican party officials not knowing what they were going to do with it? not having a sense that an alleged crime was going to be the purpose of their meeting that day? >> i think it's certainly possible. but i don't know who is all that gullible. i think it's a question that i'm sure he should be asked. and if there's justice to be served to be asked by federal investigators about that. but, look this is -- what
happened on january 6th is something that did not just get plotted that very day. it's something that started more than a month beforehand. it's something that spanned across several states. in the case of senator fitzgerald, now congressman fitzgerald, is something that he had a role in the beginning opening up this room which was then used for these ten fraudulent electors to show up wrongly that they were the electors of wisconsin trying to overturn the will of wisconsin. a month later on january 6th, congressman fitzgerald, one of the few people voting to lock the certification of elects from certain states. so he was a part of it then. then just a week after that, add some doubt on whether donald trump was to blame what happened on january 6th. what happened on january 6th didn't start then, frank list, it's still continuing now with fake election investigations
that are happening in our state and happening over a year, trying to question what happened through a very safe and secure wisconsin in wisconsin. >> senator larson, i know you have written to county prosecutor, county d.a. in wisconsin, asking about whether this matter with the false electors, these forged documents, whether this is under investigation? we know that this attorney has said that they've referred the matter to state law enforcement. they think it should be investigated by the state attorney general's office. the state attorney general in wisconsin has put out a statement that doesn't seem to indicate either way whether his office might be looking into this. or whether there's any federal referral indeed to federal prosecutors or anybody else inside the state. do you have any insight as to whether or not this is being treated as a law enforcement matter in your state? >> yeah. and i talked directly to the attorney general of our state, and he believes -- he wouldn't say one way or the other, if there is an investigation going
on. but he did say that he does say it's more fit for what's happening at the federal level, because it's a larger scope, kind of in tune with what the michigan attorney general is doing. so this is something that is very clear, at least from my perspective, not his words, there is fraud committed. and there was an attempt to overthrow the election, just because they weren't successful doesn't mean they shouldn't be held accountable. the reality is, if this were arson, if you had somebody with matches, gasoline and tinder but they weren't able to get the flame going, you wouldn't continue to let them keep doing this, right? months later, years later, in the case of this, where they're continuing this, to try to continue to build the case to overturn the next election. it's important for each and every one of the electors, frankly, in the case of congressman fitzgerald, everyone held accountable to the fuel extent of the law, whether that be federally through the
investigation of the justice department or state laws as well. >> wisconsin state senator, chris larson, thank you for your time. thank you for helping us find out more about this story that we didn't otherwise know. thank you. >> thanks for covering it. again, the breaking news that we covered at the beginning of the hour is that the u.s. justice department does say that the matter of forged documents in multiple states is the subject of ongoing investigation at the u.s. justice department now. much more ahead. stay with us. much more ahead. stay with us
i want to show you some video here of part of the largest federal deployment of personal protection equipment in our nation's history. this is not archival footage. this is not from decades ago. it's not from a couple years ago. it's this video shot today at a meyer grocery store in michigan. anybody who wants can pick up
three masks at that grocery store. they're putting them out in bags of three. they look like the kind of bags you that weigh your shallots in. all you have to do is take them. that is true at meyer grocery stores in the midwest. and hy-vee grocery stores in the midwest. all across the nation, we're supposed to be start seeing free masks at locations of walgreens, krogers and winn-dixie, fresco. they're going to be all over. part of what biden administration announced last week, they're making 400 million n95 masks to the public. three high-quality n95 masks. i know you've heard the term n95. they're really different. if you have never worn a real n95 mask before.
they are qualitatively different than any mask you've worn. they're way more protective than any mask you've worn that isn't that. now americans of all stripes should be able to get those, not just health care workers, not just people with connections. these should be the highest quality masks available, n95s for americans for free. they're truly rolling out the first few stores to get the masks, started distributing them this week. we should see more and more stores joining in until this thing hits full force early next month. but again, it's 400 million masks that they are sending out. we're also starting to see the first reports of people getting their four free at-home rapid covid tests in the mail from the federal government. those have started to arrive through the mail. this is a reminder, if you haven't done it yet, the biden administration bought 1 billion at-home rapid covid tests to
distribute to the american people for free. billion, with a "b." they're mailing them out to americans for free. go to www.covidtests.gov. you put in your address. and they will mail four free tests to your house. it's a to-do list for what the biden administration has been able to get running. check your paper, tell your friends when you got them, go get your free masks. they're the really good masks. get your free tests. be a part of the biggest federal deployment of personal protection equipment in history. it's your history. it's our lives, right now. histo. it's our lives, right now.
do you struggle to fall asleep and stay asleep? qunol sleep formula combines 5 key nutrients that can help you fall asleep faster, stay asleep longer, and wake up refreshed. the brand i trust is qunol. tonight, pfizer announced that it has begone testing a new vaccine, a new vaccine formulated specifically for the omicron variant of the coronavirus. omicron now makes up 99% of the vaccines circulating in this country. with these clinical trials now
under way, pfizer's ceo says he expects the omicron variant vaccine to be ready quickly, in march, which is, after all, only a few weeks away. even before we've got an omicron variant specific vaccine, though, lots of u.s. states hit hardest in the early part of the omicron variant wave are already seeing cases decline rapidly, because we're seeing that in multiple hard-hit state, even while the variant continues to surge in states with low vaccination rate, our overall national case count is also now starting to drop. we appear to be on the downward side of the curve in terms of the omicron crush. dr. ashish aja, the dean of brown public school of public health. put it this way in "the washington post," the head line as you can see it, the worst of omicron might have passed, but the pandemic is not over. dr. aja suggested that we use the next few months when we see the lower level of virus to get ready for the next surge or next
variant. he said part of that preparation will need to include new vaccines. he also said by the time the new variant arrives, all americans should have access to antiviral treatments immediately after testing positive. are we on track for both new variant vaccines and for that kind of therapeutics that may make that kind of difference. joining us now is ashish aja, he's dean of the brown public school of health. dr. aja, thank you for being here. >> thank you, rachel, thanks for having me back. >> you embody, with what you posted around twitter today around it, i wonder if you can tell people how to keep in mind these two things at once. that it does feel like we have a sense of what the shape of the omicron curve is going to be like, that we may be on the far side of it, on the downslope side of it. while also seeing health care
staff in so many states beyond the point of overwhelmed still in the places where the crushes still lie. >> yeah, so, rachel, we do have two challenges right now. one is, there is good news, as you said, we are on the other side of this curve. and we hope we continue to slide down that curve pretty quickly. and i'm optimistic that we will, we'll have to see. what i'm worried about is what we do when we come down from each of these waves we decide, okay, the pandemic is over. we're moving on. unfortunately, the virus doesn't seem to agree with that. what i am calling for is to use that period of reprieve when we're all taking a deep breath and case numbers are down and we're relaxing a little bit. to get ready, with antivirals with better masks, vaccines, if and when there's another surge, another variant, we will manage it very, very good. >> is there anything we have learned about the treatment of limited therapeutics we have now
and indeed the way we've handled vaccines as a country that might help us, forgive me, sort of stupid about them in the future? you talk about the promise of antiviral therapeutics that are coming down the pipeline. but at the same time in florida today, we see the governor grandstanding about how he demands access to monoclonal antibodies that don't work against the omicron variant because he seems to not understand that variants have different variabilities for different therapeutics. i'm worried we've already taken a giant step in the dumb direction that we haven't learned any lessons in misunderstanding they're puts and vaccines up until now? >> yeah, every time there's a new variant, we have to double-check will our vaccines work, so far, our vaccines have held incredible well. some of our therapeutics are holding up, others are not.
that's the first thing. know which ones going to work. you can't just walk into cvs and get an order of paxil. you have to target the people. there's a lot of work that goes on beyond not having enough doses and the work to put in that crisis which is harder to pull out. >> dr. ashish aja, dean of brown public school of health, voice of reason here always nice to see you, sir. we'll be right back. stay with us. we'll be right back. stay with us
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that's going to do it for us tonight. i'll see you again here tomorrow. "way too early with jonathan lemire" is up next. ♪♪ the u.s. sends another round of lethal aid to ukraine. but president biden says he has no plans to send u.s. or nato troops into the country. with the world on high alert, the question is what more are we learning about the president's options to deter russia from invading its neighbor? plus, new signals expected today on whether the fed plans to raise interest rates to combat soaring inflation. after the wild swings on wall street, the question is, are investors ready for what comes next? and big papi gets the big