tv Katy Tur Reports MSNBC January 31, 2022 11:00am-12:00pm PST
good to be with you. i am katy tur. we begin with a tense confrontation between the u.s. and russia today. this meeting was called by the u.s. and within moments of its start russia called for it to end. russia accused the united states of whipping up hysteria over ukraine and provoking escalation, but the u.s. ambassador to the u.n. pointed to the build up of 130,000 russian troops at ukraine's border, arguing if russia invades nobody could call it a surprise. in russia further invades
ukraine, none of us will be able to say we didn't see it coming. the consequences will be horrific, which is why this meeting is so important today. >> a representative for ukraine also addressed the security council today but russia did not hear it. moscow's diplomats left before ukraine even began. there's a new sign today that russia could be, we're stressing could be, in the final stages in preparing for military action. an official confirms to nbc news that russia began moving in supplies to the blood to troops along the border in recent days, giving them more capability to begin a military campaign more quickly. at the same time it's getting increasingly intense inside ukraine. in kyiv, a small group of volunteers including business owners and teachers are now teaching with ukrainian veterans
running weekend exercises to better prepare in case of a russian incurtion. false alarm bomb threats are continuing to terrorize communities and schools even, and the ukrainian government is blaming russia for them saying it's hybrid warfare to increase pressure on ukraine. and the state department confirmed that blinken and sergei lavrov will meet tomorrow. the senate foreign relations committee is on the, quote, mother of all sanctions. joining me is erin mcloughlin in ukraine, and peter baker. i want to start with the moving in of blood to the front lines.
there's a lot of questions whether or not russia is preparing to move in. why is the pentagon seeing that as a sign of potential imminent invasion? >> so this is something we have been watching for for a number of weeks. there were some reports in december after the russian military started moving more and more forces along the border with ukraine in november, and in december we started to hear about medical support, maybe mobile medical units and personnel, but the one thing we kept hearing for weeks was u.s. officials saying, look, watch for when they start to bring in blood. think about it, katy, you are going to bring in blood and plasma and the kind of support you may need if you need it, and that requires refrigeration, and it requires more logistics and you don't bring that in until later in the game. again, i don't want to make it seem like the last straw and an invasion is imminent, it's not
that, but it's one of many indicators that we are seeing and hearing about from u.s. officials in recent days. another is the large-scale buildup along the border you were just referencing, and ukraine is saying russia has somewhere in the neighborhood of 130,000 troops along the borders and in crimea. that's an enormous number. we are talking about a huge buildup of russian forces that we have not seen in decades. that's another reason there's a lot of concern here at the pentagon and here among the u.s. officials i have spoken with, that at this point russia has brought in so many capabilities it's unlikely they won't do something, and the question is what would that be? >> russia says they have the right to do this, and it's nothing more than war games and the west is hyping it up too much. is there any scenario where you see the bringing in of that amount of blood and plasma and
refrigeration and so forth to be on hand for the war games? >> it's plausible. we don't know how much they are bringinging in when it comes to the plasma, and it could be that there are many troops they have to sustain, but, again, it's another thing where if you look at the build up to a possible invasion or some sort of military action, if you look at it is a mile, this is another marker along the mile that makes them closer and closer to being able to not only carry out some sort of a military invasion or incursion, and one reason the officials are concerned about this new development is it just makes russia more and more capable of doing something very quickly. >> you know, erin, we have been paying a close eye on what is happening inside ukraine, and inside kyiv, and how the people are feeling. we had reports from matt bradley
and richard engel last week, about how the people of kyiv are shrugging it off and not getting more scared. are you still feeling that today? >> well, i think it is safe to say that ukrainian officials are concerned. there are concerns were outlined today at the u.n. security council meeting by the ukrainian ambassador to the united nations, and following that meeting he told reporters that he believes the russian invasion is imminent but went on to define the word imminent, being very careful with the wording saying imminent means approaching and hanging over and only then unavoidable, and that's significant because the more common word of the definition of imminent in ukraine is inevitable, and many ukrainians when they were hearing u.s. officials saying it was inevitable, and panic is a
key concern to ukrainian officials and they see it damaging to the country and the economy. there's a small group of people here in kyiv and other cities in ukraine who are going through military training on the weekends, as you pointed out, katy, but that's really a minority. most people are going about their daily business, they are quietly preparing, packing their go bags, but it's worth noting that this is a country that lived under the threat of russian invasion for the past eight years. >> let's talk about the sanctions, mother of all sanctions being considered in the senate right now. the uk is considering their own set of sanctions. is that going to be the deterrent for russia or the nato
-- >> we can threaten and detour as much as we want, and this is already part of putin's calculations. he already knows what we are capable of and what we are not and what is at stake for him and what is not. he has factored that in, we just don't know how he factored that in and whether it's something that would change the calculous. the things we could do are pretty extraordinary if we choose to put that in, and the sanctions in 2014 were relatively modest. but what they can do is cut russia off, international banking system and go after putin's personal funds which are believed to be in the billions squared away around various places around the globe, and energy could hurt russia, and they could hurt our allies, and 40% of europe's natural gas come from russia, and if we were to
impose an energy boycott on him that would have an impact on people that we are friends with as well, and that's a problem for biden and for them keeping the alliance together. the mother of all sanctions is important. >> if we impose sanctions on the pipeline into germany, he could also cut off the natural gas himself or raise the prize to where it proves extremely painful on europe and germany specifically, and is that the reason germany has been hesitant to send more than helmets to ukraine? >> this is where the alliance at the moment looks skewed, because we are not on the same page with germany, the most important partner in europe because they depend on russian energy, and they do not want to see war, and they are on the same side as the
brits as trying to stop it, but they are not willing to go as forward as the americans are because they have more at stake, and they are wary at doing anything that would provoke russia and are willing to do something that could accommodate putin if they think that would get them out of the armed combat. >> thank you for starting us off. with me now, admiral saw receiptious. putin knows how far the west can go, and anything else we say is not going to be much of a surprise to him. >> my sense is that peter is correct, that putin has baked this into his calculations. unfortunately, katy, i have kind of landed where i think the u.s. intelligences communities have landed which is certainly better
than chance, we are going to see some kind of an incursion, an armed invasion, and we will throw the kitchen sink at him, and we is those cards and putin is holding the military cards and he at the end of the day is probably going to go in. >> does it stop at ukraine? >> yes, it stops at ukraine. katy, it will probably stop not that far into ukraine. what i mean by that is for putin to go all the way to kyiv to try and dominate this vast country, this thing -- ukraine is the size of texas, 45 million people as you saw a few minutes ago in our clip there, you know when the investment bankers and lawyers are coming out to train with guns that they are pretty serious about defending their country. putin doesn't want that western part of ukraine. he will probably stop in the
southeast and take a chunk out of it is defy the west to impose its sanctions. >> what does he get out of that then? >> he gets internally in russia there's a certain level of nationalism and enthusiasm. he shows he's a strong actor. he gets to talk about the rejen, looking at nations around like kazakhstan, which they just sent troops into, he has regional influence, and he is showing president xi that russia is a player and is strong and willing to go against the west and he sews division, and the alliance is starteding to show cracks, and there is division, and he will take the pain of the
sanctions. >> long term, though, what are the risks here? putin has said that the greatest tragedy was the break up of the ussr. you talk about him wanting to appear powerful to president xi and show the west is not completely united and there are cracks in the alliance, so is there another bigger, long-term threat here? if we are talking about that, are we headed to -- is there a concern we could be headed to another version of the cold war? >> i think there's every reason to be concerned about stumbling into a new cold war with russia. i always say this about vladimir putin. he's a very clever tack teugs. i don't think putin is a good strategist because over time this is not going to end up
playing well for him economically or even within russia. >> if the united states poses -- imposes the mother of all sanctions, along with whatever the uk sanctions is drumming up, how much damage can they do? when does it not become sustainable for putin? he already absorbed a lot as it is? >> a good way to look at it was iran, those were the mother of all sanctions before this set of sanctions, and they had a profound impact on the iranian economy, knocked it down 50% broadly speaking in its oil and gas and 30% overall. that's a big-time hit to an economy. again, when we talk about putin turning off the gas to western europe, that sounds like a great card for him to play except when he does that, he loses all that income. there's two sides to that
transaction as well. there's not going to be anything but air whistling through the north stream pipeline if he does this. that will hurt him quite a bit. >> what are the risk he starts to lose his own people? it's hard to tell his popularity there, because when we hear about the popularity ratings, they are manufactured by the government and the poll results are machined by the government and it's not a free democracy, but is there a risk he starts to lose the confidence of the russian people and if he does, how do we tell? >> there's a risk. i would say he has his hands on all the levers to control power in russia, and he will continue to use them effectively, and over time, katy, there will be a deck rawment in his popularity, and overall, when dead russian
soldiers are shipped back to moscow -- because the ukrainians are going to fight, and we have given them a lot of arms and training since 2014. they will fight hard and will create pain for putin as well. >> admiral, thank you so much for joining us. still ahead, donald trump floats the possibility of pardoning those charged in the attack on the capitol. >> if i run and if i win, we will treat those people from january 6th fairly. we will treat them fairly. and if it requires pardons, we will give them pardons. also ahead, we will go to washington ahead of a busy stretch for returning lawmakers at the top of their long to-do list, a battle over the next supreme court pick. joe rogen apologizes sort of after a number of artists pull
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texas donald trump once again claimed his vice president, mike pence, had the power to stop the electoral count and he wanted pence to use that power to overturn the election. he also said he would consider pardons for the 700 plus people charged in the capitol riot if he ended up back at the white house. he asked his supporters to hold the biggest protests we have ever had -- that's a quote, in cities where he is being investigated. that call prompted the district attorney in fulton county, georgia, where trump's efforts to overturn the vote are being investigated, to request extra security from the fbi. joining me now is nbc news national security and intelligence correspondent, ken delanen. >> there's condemnation from a
handful of republicans -- >> i should have mentioned this off the top, but joe biden is speaking in the oval office. let's listen in. >> i had a productive talk last week with president zelensky, and we have attempted like the devil to improve security for our allies and partners and for all of europe, for that matter. today the united nations, we have laid out the full nature of russia's threat to ukraine's sovereignty, and the territory integrity of ukraine and as well as the court tenants of a rule-based national order, and we continue to urge diplomacy as the best way forward. but with russia's continuing its buildup of forces around ukraine, we are ready no matter
what happens. i also want to know that the uae defeated a ballistic missile attack from yemen yesterday, separate issue, and we have been in daily contact with the uae to address those threats and i have directed secretary austin to do everything he can to communicate the support of the united states for the uae, saudi arabia and throughout the gulf region. america will have the backs of our friends in the region. today, i am honored to be here with a good friend who has been wonderful relationship since i have been president and before, and i want to welcome you to the white house, 50 years of partnership -- you're not that old but 50 years of partnership, and this year our partnership
with qatar has been central, and relocating afghans and maintaining stability in gaza and providing assistance to palestine, and a lot more. we have a lot on our agenda today. we want to talk about the security in the gulf and the broader middle east, ensuring the stability of global energy supplies, continuing our work together to support the people of afghanistan and strengthening commercial and investment cooperation between our two countries. speaking of that, on that front, i want to applaud the new deal that qatar airways group signed with boeing for $20 billion
deal, and it will support tens of thousands of good paying jobs here in americ i am notifying congress i will designate qatar has -- >> president biden there speaking about russia, and again saying that he hopes diplomacy will work with vladimir putin and that an invasion of ukraine is not inevitable. let's go back to nbc news national security correspondent, and before this we were talking about donald trump's comments about the election saying pence had the power to overturn the results and he wanted him to do so and also urging his supporters to go and protest in places he is being investigated, fulton county georgia, one of
those places and the d.a. asking for fbi security. >> we were talking about republican reaction, and most republicans were trying to say as little as possible, as usual. and susan collins had the misfortune of being in front of cameras this weekend and had to say it was inappropriate in a mild mannered way. sununu was asked if the defendants of january 6th should be pardoned, and he said, no, and graham said he didn't want to send a signal that it was okay to defy the capitol, and then you had marjorie taylor greene criticizing graham for not supporting the j 6 defendants, as she so put it. trump is the leader of the party, and it's still his party and polling shows 40% of republicans believe the penalties imposed on convicted capitol rioters are too severe and that's what trump is tapping into, katy.
>> thank you so much. the search for the nominee to replace supreme court justice breyer capitol hill busier. there's more than a dozen names and all black women with extensive resumes and experienced as promised by president biden. several republicans have criticized the president to picking a blackn's intentions w quote, affirmativeds graham disagreed saying put me in the camp of making sure the court and other institutions look like america. one of the women being considered is from graham's state, j. michelle childs. joining me is national correspondent, leigh ann caldwell. does that put her at the top of the list for joe biden who might be searching for bipartisan approval in a supreme court
nominee? >> it's hard to tell what the administration is doing, what president biden thinks. he's going to meet with these people relatively soon, but if the administration does want a bipartisan pick then childs is probably top of the list. in addition to lindsay graham i asked the office of senator tim scott, also a south carolina republican, what they thought about childs last week, and through a spokesperson did not rule out supporting her, and said they are fully aware of her attributes and role as a jurist, and another sign democrats want this to be bipartisan, on the sunday shows yesterday, susan collins sid the chair of the judiciary committee reached out to her and offered her extensive amounts of time for whoever the nominee is. that sends a signal that democrats do want to get republicans onboard. we're also getting a clearer
picture of where those, perhaps, shaky democrats might stand. our colleague just spoke with senator joe manchin just moments ago, and he said that all of the names that have been floated are excellent choices. i think we have that sound. let's listen to him. >> basically, if it's somebody we already have been vetted that we put on the bench before, and that will make it go quicker. we need to fill the seat and we need nine justices for the justice needed in our country and i am anxious to get that done. >> looks like all democrats will support whoever the nominee is. of course we could wait and see what happens, if there's something explosive in one of these peoples' backgrounds, but the questions are who is the nominee going to be, and how many republicans, if any, are they going to get. it looks like they could get some, katy. >> democrats are onboard, but the question is do they want
republicans as well. thank you so much for joining us. >> yep. coming up in a couple minutes, the changes coming to spotify after musicians began to pull their music because of misinformation on joe rogan's podcast. and then lockdown at downy street has been published and the findings do not look good for prime minister boris johnson. r prime minister boris johnson. before you go there, or there...
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to help you manage your blood sugar. and more protein to keep you moving with diabetes. glucerna live every moment it is getting tense at spotify. several musicians led by neil young have pulled their music off the platform for not just allowing joe rogan to spread misinformation on his podcast, but for paying him money to do so. joe rogan responded in a ten-minute video posted to instagram. >> i am just a person that sits down and talks to people and has conversation wz them. do i get things wrong? absolutely. but i try to correct them. i am interested in telling the truth and finding out what the truth is. >> that same apology was full of
misstatements and half truths. joining me now is the editor in chief of "the verge." spotify is adding a disclaimer and you can get covid information over here, and joe rogan's listeners are listening to him because they trust him and he says he's somebody doing a job that the mainstream is not doing, and he's not afraid to go places the mainstream media is not going to go because it's against the narrative, and he says he's not a scientist and that yes, he gets things wrong. >> yeah, i think that is part of joe rogan's appeal. i understand why people like joe rogan. i know a lot of joe rogan fans. joe rogan is played in my house quite often, but fundamentally joe has a huge platform and
there's a huge expectation that he would use that platform more responsibly. part of his apology was i am often not prepared and i come in and don't know what will come out of my mouth. that's the heart of it. it's fine to talk to skeptics in the country and who are worried about the health impacts of some of the mitigation strategies, that's fine but you have to be prepared. spotify has a real problem that it does not have uniform editorial standards for the podcasts it pays to produce, and it's content moderation distraction. >> spotify like facebook and youtube, they want to be considered not a publisher but a platform, because as a publisher you have a number of responsibilities, if you are a publisher, you can get sued. that's the big one, if you are not correct or intentionally
dishonest. just a person on facebook posting misinformation or they are wrong about something, and the difference between joe rogan, they are paying him to be on that platform. >> yeah, i would say to be careful with the publisher platform conversation. there's lot of noise when you start to use those terms. here's it's simple. spotify made the choice to pay for the rights to distribute joe's show, and what they want to be in the conversation with is facebook and youtube which are open access user-generated content platforms. those companies have gigantic moderation workforces. they have huge policy teams. they talk about moderation openly because that is fundamentally their business.
spotify's business, on the one hand, is distribution in music for which they pay a fee, and then distribution of their wholly owned podcast content which they are in control of. you have to separate the noise of the platform publisher, and the section that we have been talking about facebook for so long, and focus on spotify paid the money for this show and does it have standards for the programming it chooses? >> is the disclaimer going to be enough? >> we have seen disclaimers and warnings and covid hubs and i think fundamentally joe is correct in pointing at something, which is a lot of people don't trust this information, and for better or worse, that information has changed over time. i think on the other side of the whole debate is do our institutions have the individualability to say they were wrong and change their guidance, or does it feel like
people are being told the same thing over and over again. >> i think the scientific community does get things wrong but there's a scientific process for adjusting for the incorrect information. it's always a process of research and development of information as that information comes in, and it's backed by data. yeah, they have gotten things wrong in the past and the community owns up and moves forward. the difference is joe rogan just asking questions, and this is not a conversation about deplatforming, but joe rogan asking questions to his massive following, it makes it seem like there's a conspiracy out there and he's the only one poking holes in it and that can be really dangerous, especially in a global pandemic where a virus is killing millions of people who refuse to get vaccinated, or millions of people that did not have the choice to get vaccinated and now have the choice and still many of them are choosing not to. we are seeing people in hospitals not vaccinated and still refusing it, still
refusing it even though they are dying of the disease. >> oh, yeah, i will point you to the earlier story in the rogan spotify cycle. a few months ago rogan said i don't think kids should get vaccinated. if i was a young person i would not get vaccinated. and the surge reported it and said spotify is okay with this and reviewed it, and spotify said we are not okay with it, it just doesn't break the rules. who writes the rules? spotify. they decided this kind of content could go out. all i am pointing to, labels and pointers to other resources all depend on the fundamental trust in those institutions, and that dynamic right now is extremely fraught. i don't know that spotify's actions are going to work because the real problem is the lack of faith in some of the institutions that do have the accurate information. >> i think you are absolutely right about that. thank you so much for joining us. coming up, why tom brady might have 15 million reasons to delay his retirement until next
today the uk government published part of the long-awaited report into party gate, the political scan tkurd surrounding boris johnson's covid lockdown parties. a senior servant found failures of leadership and judgment and concluded some of the events should not have been allowed to take place. what was released today was part of gray's report, her findings on four of the 16 events. the rest are being withheld at the request of the police because they are now the subject of a criminal inquiry. the findings of the gray report mark the greatest political blow for johnson, and today he addressed parliament and apologized but dismissed calls
for his resignation. >> mr. speaker, i get it, and i will fix it. and i want to say -- and i want to say to the people of this country, i know what the issue is. yes, ms. speaker, please, it's whether this government can be trusted to deliver, and i say, ms. speaker, yes, we can be trusted. yes, we can be trusted to deliver. >> joining me from london is nbc news correspondent, keir simmons. it doesn't sound like he has a whole lot of support in government? >> well, it's a rowdy place, the house of commons, as you know, katy. it certainly was a robust performance by the prime minister in the face of a pretty damning report, some people
think. this is the report and it doesn't say very much, but it says an awful lot. for example, talking about the excessive consumption of alcohol in downing street. now, this is not just some british government department, of course, this is the prime minister's office, the prime minister himself now facing this police investigation into his inner circle, and maybe even the prime minister himself. in fact, some aspects of this investigation have had to be held back because of the police investigation, so it's possible that the prime minister, boris johnson, who, of course, in many ways is teflon coated, has managed again escape the worst of it simply by the fact that the police investigation will take time and perhaps people will have moved on. having said that, it's extraordinary to have allegations hurled in the house
of commons that the prime minister himself might have done something illegal. so this is about parties, which in a sense, i guess, was the fuss about, and it's still about so much more because these parties were being held allegedly when the rest of the country was facing a lockdown, and people were not allowed to gather, and that's the potential political damage, and the conservative party will decide if he's a vote winner for them. if that happens, then they could vote him out, katy. >> a vote of no confidence. keir, thank you so much. coming up next, will he or won't he? the speculation surrounding tom brady and those reports that he plans to retire. retire. instead, start small. with nicorette.
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the rumors and brady's father said he has not made a decision. joining me now is stf writer and msnbc contributor. hooeps the author of several wonderful books including "big game." mark, it is always good to have you. and first off, congratulations to the bengals and the rams and mostly the city of los angeles for finally getting to host the super bowl. but since it's not for a couple weeks, we can talk about tom brady. is he going to retire? >> i will say he probably is going to retire. we are all going to retire at some point. we're all going to it die at some point. i think what happened this weekend is there were reports throughout saturday and sunday that he was going to retire. espn reported adam schefter and jeff darlington said so and
would probably happen, i would guess, is that they broke it early and brady didn't want to announce it over a weekend where the games are supposed to be the focus. the nfl is loathe to do anything to distract from the big games. i would either guess he will have an official announcement this week in dead week before super bowl weekover wait until after the super bowl is the league itself can sorlt of have center stage to the big event of the year. he's 44 years old, so it's probably time. >> the cynics are pointing to what hoost going to et get on friday, which is a $15 million signing bonus if he's still on the roster. so is part of it that? >> i don't think you have to be kin sal to see that. he has a ton of money and his wife is worth five times as much as he is. she's a supermodel, but $15 million is a lot.
it if he can wait a few days, sure. i don't think this is about money for tom. i think if he's genuinely undecided, he's not going to go ahead and make a decision one way or another whether to make spn look bad or to cash a check. put it would be a consideration for me. but luckily, i don't have any big problems like that. >> he is on the older side of things for football, but he's still playing a the a pretty high level. he only barely missed the last most important games this year. he was in the super bowl last year. was he? i'm not the biggest football fan. >> he was indeed. he won the super bowl last year. >> he still is capable. is there any chance he takes a year off and comes back and resigns with another team? >> i think entirely. pure speck ligs, but that's what sports is about. i think if he were just a single guy without a family and nothing
else in his life, he would say sure, i'm going to play as long as possible. but he has a wife and three kids. he has a family. his parents he's close to. i think everyone around him would prefer he stop playing football, which is a violent game at age 44. but i have talked to enough nfl players both while they are play ing or right after they retire to know there's a mass i have void in your life right after you do something so intense for 25 years at such a high level and then everything stops. i don't care how many endorse the deals you have or how many side projects you have it's not going to be the same as what you're used to for most of your life. so i remember talking to tom brady when i was writing about him for the "the times." he said, look, the void is real. i'm afraid of it. my parents are afraid of it on my behalf. and he said that interview in 2005 or something like that. and he told me that when he said that, a bunch of people sent a bunch of bibles to him and were trying to get him to embrace all
kinds of religious things. but father time is always going to send friendly reminders to everyone. even tom brady. he's done a great job to this point. certainly his leg sit is amazing. >> the modern day bejamin franklin, the only thing is retirement and death. >> very much true. i hope the brady cover is behind me. you see that? the only thing i have ever framed in my entire career. always great. it's fine. mark, thanks so much for join ing us. that is it for today. hallie jackson picks up our coverage, next. that is it for ty hallie jackson picks up our coverage, next >> woman: what's my safelite story?
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