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tv   American Voices With Alicia Menendez  MSNBC  February 5, 2022 7:00pm-8:00pm PST

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♪♪ this hour the grand old party goes to new extremes. the rnc taking trumpism to new heights. now formally siding with those who attacked american democracy. in this hour what could this partisan rebuke of the 1-6 investigation do for the investigation itself? also ahead, the former head coach putting his career on the line to tackle inequalities in the nfl. and as she celebrates 70 years on the throne, queen elizabeth breaks some news just a short time ago regarding the future of the monarchy. but let's begin this hour with
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the extreme becoming the mainstream in republican politics. the gop, which calls itself the party of lincoln, is now more than ever the party of trump. leaning into the lies, siding itself with insurrection. as we weave through this story remember this quote, posted thursday by the official gop twitter account. "the republican party is the party of law and order." see, the very next day the republican national committee voted to censure fellow republican congresswoman liz cheney and congressman adam kinzinger. the party touting law and order putting on historical record their upset with two members of their party who dare dig up the truth about the lawlessness and disorder of january 6th. in condemning cheney and kissinger, the rnc writes, "the primary mission of the republican party is to elect republicans who support the united states constitution. however, the truth remains,
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cheney and kinzinger are the republicans who place loyalty to the constitution. they are not loyal to trump, which is the actual problem for the rnc. m texas last week donald trump held a rally saying if he's president again he may pardon capitol rioters. if you can believe it, the former guy actually told the truth, admitting he did want his vice president to overturn the will of the american people, of you. last night for once mike pence didn't back down to donald trump and said his former boss is, wait for it, wrong. >> president trump is wrong. i had no right to overturn the election. the presidency belongs to the american people, and the american people alone. >> the rnc is doing much more than perverting the constitution in the name of upholding it. republican leaders now siding with the insurrectionists as mentioned. the rnc went on to write, the 1/6 investigation is a "persecution of ordinary citizens engaged in legitimate
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political discourse." of course, there was nothing ordinary, nothing legitimate about the attack on american democracy. the republican party is now officially whitewashing the assault that left five people dead and injured 140 officers. today alaska senator lisa murkowski joined the very short list of republicans publicly calling out the rnc. she tweeted, "we must not legitimize those actions that resulted in loss of life and we must learn from that horrible event so history does not repeat itself." it's clear the rnc is sending a dangerous message by siding with trump on this one. but we should all be worried too about who's listening. wednesday the 1/6 committee spoke with oath keepers founder stewart rhodes. he is charged, as you know, with seditious conspiracy in connection to the capitol riot. this week on "the beat," i spoke to his estranged wife about the plot. >> i think they certainly have a great case that he planned this,
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he planned to disrupt everything in order to, you know, convince trump to declare the insurrection act. they would come in. everything would just be chaos. and somewhere in there oath keepers would be placed in some -- some, you know, basically brown shirts for trump. >> joining us now to discuss the extreme gop, msnbc national security analyst frank figliuzzi, msnbc legal analyst and co-host of the #sisters in law podcast barbara mcquade. and justice reporter for nbc news digital ryan reilly. ryan, i'm going to start with you because you're closely following the prosecutions of january 6th defendants. how does what is playing out in court stack up against the rnc's belief that "ordinary citizens engaged in legitimate political discourse"? >> yeah, you know, less than an hour after that statement was sort of passed by the rnc, we had people in court who had assaulted officers, they were caught on video assaulting officers that day. so it really does put this
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juxtaposition between what the rnc is trying to say about what happened on january 6th versus what actually happened on january 6th in pretty stark display. there are assault after assault after assault on officers that day. there's more than 350 people on the fbi's website who are still wanted in connection with this attack, most of them for assaulting officers, and there are probably almost close to 2,000 people who could be charged potentially, more based on the numbers we've seen right now when the total population is over 2,500 who either entered the capitol or who assaulted officers outside. so we're still at the very beginning, even a year in, of this investigation that could go on for a very long time and certainly as these trials get started it's going to stretch over the next three, four years. >> frank, i don't know if you had a chance to read the resolution. i have been encouraging our readers to print it out, read it for themselves. it is about a page long. it is striking from beginning to end, in the resolution the rnc also airs its grievances against
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democrats. there's a lot of rhetoric here, saying that democrats want to replace liberty with socialism, eliminate border security, create "inflation designed to steal the american dream." i bring all of that up because you layer it on top of their saying that this was legitimate political discourse. how does the language writ large actually help fuel extremism? >> well, it certainly doesn't help. in fact, it further radicalizes people. look, this has all of the hallmarks of a strategy, a coordinated strategy to shape the hearts and minds of a certain segment of the population and kind of intimidate investigators and doj prosecutors across the country who are engaged in a very active investigation of what happened on january 6th and, of course, the select committee. it's a public attempt to kind of shape the argument. famously billy martin, the infamous former manager of the
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new york yankees, was asked one time, why are you ranting and raving and yelling at the umpire? he's never going to change his call. billy martin said, i'm not arguing that call. i'm arguing for the next call. it's an attempt to intimidate, to bully. that's what's going on right now. so that people think that there's a legitimate theory here that the january 6th committee is out to get people, not out for justice, that any prosecution that comes down the pike is somehow going to be politicized. that's what's going on here. and at its worst, through my security lens, it is going to give license to people to act out violently. you have president trump was it last weekend or the weekend before saying that certain prosecutors are vile people. well, they're prosecutors who are coming after his organization or his conduct. we're going to see this increasingly. i feel this is just the beginning of the strategy. >> barb, to that point, i want to turn to mike pence's comments.
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"washington post" frames it this way, "pence, trump's ever-loyal vice president, took his most, plift shots at the former president saying president trump is wrong when he called for pence to overturn the election. pence drew raucous applause from the crowd of conservative lawyers at the federalist society conference." we've talked add gnaws yam about the politics of this. legally speaking talk to me about the significance of these remarks. >> i think it's very important someone who is a staunch conservative, a republican and there at the federalist society meeting, a meeting of leaders in the law of the conservative movement and admitting that the emperor has no clothes, that he was wrong, that pence did not have the ability to overturn the election legally and that what trump was asking him to do was illegal. i think it's an important moment. i also think it hints at other evidence that may be there. whether pence himself is going to testify before the january 6th committee or leave it to
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some of his aides like his chief of staff and others who have been cooperating to explain what they told donald trump, that is, that there was no election fraud, that there was no ability to overturn the election, because the one piece that's been missing in the public viewing is evidence that trump knew what he was doing was fraudulent. we know all about the efforts that he did in plain sight. but to prove fraud you have to show knowledge that he knew he he did not win the election. and so i think when people like mike pence talk about this and say president trump was wrong, he's told him that before. these aides know that he's told him that before. and so that's the part that i want to hear more about. what did william barr tell him in december before he resigned? the conversations that caused doj officials and white house counsel to threaten to resign from the trump white house. those people are key witnesses in trump's knowledge and intent. >> frank, i spoke with the estranged wife of oath keepers founder stuart rhodes this week, and as i was speaking with her i was like i wish i had frank figliuzzi here to tell me what
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he thinks of it. here you are. it he will me what you think of this conversation. we'll talk on the other side. >> you told l.a. times last year that you originally envisioned the oath keepers as "a cigar club of like-minded libertarians." what changed? >> i think it never really changed for him in his mind. i think the long goal all the time was to do something like what became. i think the libertarian side of things, sort of left-leaning libertarian, anything goes side of things, that was a pitch that he gave because there was a very large ron paul movement at the time. there was a lot of money. there was a lot of energy in the ron paul movement. and i think he wanted to absorb that. and eventually later he morphed a little more to the right. and a little more to the right. and eventually, you know, he's following trump and anything trump says and does. and i think that that was actually his plan all along.
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>> frank, based on what you know about the oath keepers, does that track, this idea it originally starts as a libertarian cigar club for men and ends up being what we know it is? >> i think rhodes' wife gives us tremendous insight, obviously perhaps more than anyone can give, with regard to what's going on in his mind. but i have to tell you, oath keepers, again, largely comprised of former military, former active duty law enforcement, i think these largely men were thinking, i'm good to sign up for protecting my oath to the constitution. i want to keep engaged. i'm out, i'm retired, i'm former. i want to stay in the game. i think there was good intention at the start for some of them in the early days of the oath keepers but again, this is a story of radicalization. it's a story of starting in one place, as rhodes' wife has said, and moving rather rapidly, by the way, to a place of almost cult-like allegiance to one person.
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so that story is the story of so many people who may not have acted out violently and planned an insurrection but rather many people, our neighbors, our co-workers, who actually started out saying i want a change in washington and then suddenly went really to a spectrum that said you know, violence might be okay. >> my panel is sticking with me because after the quick break, we're talking next steps for the january 6th committee. congress moving ahead whether republicans like it or not. plus new reporting on how intense things are getting for targets of the investigation. and later, race in the nfl. how one former head coach is putting everything on the line for the greater good. but first to richard lui with some breaking news from the royal family. richard? >> yeah, that's right, alicia. queen elizabeth making a brow-raising announcement a short time ago. she's celebrating 70 years on the throne. nbc correspondent molly hunter in london. >> reporter: good evening from london. big late-breaking news from the
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queen herself about 10:00 p.m. local time. this has always been one of the big unanswered royal questions, and prince charles himself has really always deferred on this issue. since they were married after the tumultuous princess diana years, camilla has always been an incredibly loyal hard-working member of the family. take a look at this statement, richard. queen elizabeth writes, "in the fullness of time my son charles becomes king. i know you will give him and his wife camilla the same support that you have given me. and it is my sincere wish that when that time comes camilla will be known as queen consort as she continues her own loyal service." now, three big takeaways from the full statement. a big reminder to the british people that her son charles will be king and they should support him. the second, richard, they should also support his wife of 17 years as the next queen of this country. only a reigning monarch can define title and the queen has effectively elevated camilla from princess consort which had been touted as her future title. also in that statement the third big takeaway for me, richard, a suggestion that this is not
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imminent. she renews her commitment to her life of service very clearly. we did see her today, take a look at these pictures, looking pretty well. now, a spokesperson for charles and camilla just said they were touched and honored by her majesty's words. a big deal over here tonight. richard? >> yeah, molly. and of course she is looking great. the queen is. nbc's molly hunter for us. thank you. more "american voices" for you right after this quick break. vu right after this quick break ec. doug blows a whistle. [a vulture squawks.] oh boy. only pay for what you need. ♪liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty♪ among my patients, i often see them have teeth sensitivity as well as gum issues. does it worry me? absolutely. sensodyne sensitivity & gum gives us the dual action effect that really takes care of both our teeth sensitivity as well as our gum issues. there's no question it's something that i would recommend.
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if it acts like a mob, investigate it like a mob. well, the rnc called the capitol riot legitimate political discourse. the 1/6 committee digs deeper. according to new reporting today from the "new york times" the house select committee is borrowing techniques from federal prosecutions, employing aggressive tactics typically used against mobsters and terrorists as it seeks to break through stonewalling from trump
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and his allies and build up evidence that could prompt a criminal case in what its members see as the best opportunity to hold trump accountable the committee is using what powers it has in expansive ways in hopes of pressuring attorney general garland to use the justice department to investigate and prosecute them. not to mention the public hearings the committee expects to hold in april or may with no shortage of evidence to show the american people. the panel has testimony from 475 witnesses, issued more than 100 subpoenas, and received 60,000 pages of documents. my panel is back with me. barb, if this is in fact, as the "times" reports, a pressure campaign from the committee, will attorney general garland be responsive? >> i don't think he's going to respond to pressure. but i do think he's going to respond to information. in fact, it's not clear to me he hasn't already. it would seem to me very likely, especially based on his public remarks, that they're looking at many of the same things. there has been public reporting about collection of subpoenas, information by subpoena, for example, against sidney powell.
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that has been publicly reported. so i don't know that he'll utilize -- respond to pressure, but i think he is responding to what appears to be strong predication for a criminal investigation here. and so the same techniques that are being used kind of in the open with the january 6th committee i suspect is going on more covertly within the justice department. >> frank, i just can't get over the fact that they're using tactics that they ordinarily reserve for terrorists and mobsters, applying it to a case that involves a former president of the united states. another part of this reporting from the "times" reads, "armed with reams of telephone records and metadata the committee has used link analysis, a data mapping technique that former fbi agents say was key to identifying terrorist networks in the years after the 9/11 attacks." what does it tell you, frank, about the sophistication of this investigation? >> i'm encouraged to hear this. it's really what we used to call the enterprise theory of investigation. and today there's all kinds of
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software that engages in both predictive analysis and also network analysis that can tell you, look, while this guy was talking to this person at this time, this similar conversation was going on here. and then they hooked up an hour later. we can tell that through e-mail, through text, et cetera. that's all good news on a level of certification. i'm with barb, though, on this pressure concept. i'm troubled, actually, by the notion that the committee might feel compelled to pressure doj to do the right thing or to prosecute what they otherwise would not prosecute. i don't believe that should be happening. we kind of saw this enterprise theory and pressure thing play out last week when we saw zoe lofgren, a member of the committee, hint on the air that they're considering offering use immunity to jeffrey clark. i don't like that idea because use immunity is fraught with peril. you can't really prosecute someone after giving them immunity. i don't like letting jeffrey clark off the hook. but it snacks like hey, we're
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working this like the mob. we want to flip him so we can get to somebody bigger. but he's already a big fish. and i get worried about coordination or lack thereof between the committee and doj. anything that impacts potential prosecution should really be coordinated carefully. >> ryan, i want you to feel free to add any reporting you have on this idea of it being some type of pressure campaign. but i also want to bring in your new reporting on the fbi's online data base of 1/6 suspects. you write, "the fbi has in some cases removed images from the data base and individuals who haven't been arrested, sparking conspiracy theories from trump supporters who are trying to paint january 6th not as an attack perpetrated by trump enthusiasts but as a false flag event." tell me more. >> yeah, so essentially this data base of a lot of different images is unlike anything the fbi's ever done before, and in many cases online sleuths are using these photos to then find additional photos and identify dozens and dozens and dozens of
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these people who have not yet been arrested yet. but what has happened in some cases, especially in the case of ray epps, the most famous one, where his image was removed from the website, and there are a lot of explanations for that. one of them being that that's not necessarily -- he doesn't necessarily cross those lines that prosecutors have set. so there were thousands of people unlawfully on the grounds of the capitol. they're not going to prosecute all of those people. who they are going to prosecute is people who actually entered into the building, were engaged in violence against either law enforcement or members of the media outside. ray epps doesn't really fit into that category. so it makes sense why he would be removed. but unfortunately because of all the conspiracy theories on the right we've seen sparking up that has caused some issues because now there's this entire population of america who believes that ray epps is some sort of undercover agent working in some capacity and this was a false flag that the fbi was perpetrating this in some scenario. so unfortunately it's -- and the fbi is a little restricted in what they can say because. restrictions on their speech.
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they can't really say derogatory information about someone who hasn't been charged yet. so it's a little bit of a catch 22 for them. they're in this difficult position where they can't really say this is why we removed someone from the website but because they can't come out and just say that that sparked a lot of these conspiracy theories. >> barb, i want to loop back to something frank was talking about which is the reporting the 1/6 community could grant immunity to some members of trump's inner circle. your thoughts on that. >> i agree with frank that it's fraught with peril. one of the great examples of this is olive north, who testified before the iran contra committee. he was later prosecuted criminally. he'd received use immunity from the committee, and later his convictions were thrown out. the reason being that the court found it was impossible to determine that prosecutors had used evidence that was independent of his own testimony. because it was so public it was impossible to know what people knew before and what people knew after his testimony. so there is that risk that
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anyone you immunize you may be giving up the opportunity to prosecute them. now, maybe that's okay. maybe there are some people you're willing to give up to get to higher-level people whose conduct is more egregious. but as frank said, i think really important to coordinate that with doj because you wouldn't want to step on their toes and immunize somebody when it turns out they had some very serious criminal conduct you just didn't know about in advance. >> frank, there's so much i want to talk to the three of you about. i'm actually having to pick and choose as i'm on air. but i want to make sure that we get to this, which is "washington post" reported in a memo from trump allies that floated the idea of using nsa data to find proof of election fraud that doesn't exist. how does that undermine national security? >> alicia, it seems like every week we just get another indication of the complete exploitation of our intelligence community, the rule of law and the institutions. so look, there's really almost nothing more classified in terms of government function than what nsa does for a living. the thought that you would turn
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that capability against the american people and undermine democracy by trying essentially to grasp at straws and say can we find anything out there, anything that sounds like some foreign power might have messed with the election? the fact that you'd reach into the highest levels of classification, the most sensitive work the intelligence community does, and turn that for your own political purpose is really disgraceful. >> frank and barb, thank you as always. and ryan, i did not realize this is your first time on afr with us as an nbc news colleague. i am so happy you and i are working at the same place once again. next, former coach brian flores tackling racial inequalities in the nfl. will it cost him his career in pro sports? and chief of staff to congressman jamie raskin is here to talk about the new nbc film documenting how raskin navigated personal loss and national tragedy simultaneously. you do not want to miss it. y siy you do not want to miss it
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look, my story's not the only one of its kind around the national football league from black coaches, minorities, women in the nfl. i don't stand alone here. it's bigger than football. it's bigger than me. >> former dolphins head coach brian flores speaking out earlier today with the rev about his historic lawsuit against the national football league. the nfl has denied flores's allegations of discrimination against black coaches and flores's claim that the dolphins owner tried to bribe him o'lose games. the league's commissioner roger goodell saying today, "the nfl is bringing in outside experts to review its diversity policies," adding "there is much work to do and we will embrace this moment and seize the opportunity to become a stronger, more inclusive league." joining me mow, documentary film director billy corbin and professor jeremy drew of american university where he focuses on sports and employment law. professor, you've called the
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flores lawsuit the biggest development in your two-decade career studying race and the nfl. tell me more. >> yeah, it's just that. it's a huge development and a groundbreaking development not because of what it alleges but because the suit's been filed in the first place. the allegations, you just heard brian flores earlier on your network explain that he's not the only person to have this sort of experience and he's not -- and he walked the halls of the combine around the time of the super bowl and he talked to coaches, executives of color in quiet corners, they'll explain they've had this sort of experience. and if you talk to statisticians they'll explain it. there are all sorts of double standards and headwinds that are provable in the national football league that are holding candidates of color back. so the facts underlying the suit have been around for a long time. it's the fact that he dared to sue and because he risked his career that's potentially -- i
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mean, that's a big development. >> it strikes me, professor, that you have flores sclaming he was only interviewed for the top coaching positions to satisfy the so-called rooney rule which i think we all know requires teams to consider at least one minority candidate, and then you have goodell there saying we'll use this as an opportunity to review our diversity policies. it's kind of proof it's not about policies, it is about an actual culture shift and commitment to solving this problem. >> yes, it's about commitment. and i think the place we've seen in studying this over the course of the last decade is the failing with respect to commitment is with some of the clubs. the league i think is committed. but the club are 32 individual business operations. and if they are not committed to change we're not going to see the change we need to see. >> billy, former nfl head coach
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hue jackson says he too was asked to tank games and that the league dismissed his concerns. take a listen. >> we came up with a four-year plan. there was a four-year plan that was put in place to incentivize the opportunity to not have a team that would have a chance to win, which there was compensation for it. obviously, there was no i'm going to pay you $100,000 to lose, we're going to do that. there was none of that. but if you've seen the plan and if you understand just a little football, they didn't care about the fraud or the complaints of racism. they really just said look, we're going to let this go. you're not going to launch arbitration. >> billy, the cleveland browns deny the allegations. what could they mean, though, for the nfl? >> well, in 2019 especially the tank for tua movement was a real thing. the idea that teams would lose games in an effort to get a better draft pick to recruit
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this -- or i should say pick this superstar alabama quarterback tua tagovailoa. that was a real thing. and the fact that those conversations may have drifted from fan murmurs into the front offices is not at all shocking. the real issue is whether or not there was evidence that incentives were offered by steven ross, the owner of the dolphins, to flores to actually tank for tua. and it does provide i think some explanation for why they ultimately parted ways and florida's was terminated. because it was not the prevailing wisdom down here in miami that flores was the problem with the dolphins, and people were in fact quite shocked and disappointed the ahis firing. >> professor duru, i want to know how you see this all playing out. >> well, we're in court now. and you know, the toothpaste is out of the tube here. so we'll see. settlement is always a possibility. but this complaint was drafted i think to go a bit -- to go the
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distance. so i don't think settlement is necessarily going to come to pass anytime soon. i think the things to keep in mind are whether this will remain a class, brian flores brought a class action. class certifications to move forward as a group. otherwise it's going to be an individual claim. in either case, flores will have to get past the motion to dismiss to get into discovery and get to the documents that could ultimately prove his case. if he can't get past the motion to dismiss, then this thing will be over before too long. >> your final thoughts. >> this was a really brave and likely sacrificial act on the part of coach flores. i think what we've all witnessed with colin kaepernick, i think it's very unlikely and very unfortunate we'll ever see coach flores coach in the nfl again. >> billy, jeremy, thank you so much for your time. facing personal and national tragedies, a new film profiles how congressman jamie raskin
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navigated life coping with the loss of his son while carrying out constitutional duties as a sworn public public in the wake of january 6th. raskin's chief of staff will join us. raskin's chief of staff will join us. ♪sure would help a lot ♪ ♪wouldn't you like to get away? ♪ ♪ ♪ sometimes you want to go ♪ ♪where everybody knows your name ♪ ♪ ♪and they're always glad you came ♪ not only do centrum multigummies taste great. they help support your immune defenses, too. ♪ because a healthy life. starts with a healthy immune system. with vitamins c and d, and zinc. getting out there has never tasted so good. try centrum multigummies. inner voice (kombucha brewer): as a new small business owner, i find it useful to dramatically stare out of the window... that no one knows i'm secretly terrified inside.
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just over a year ago maryland congressman jamie raskin faced more than most could fathom. the loss of a child to witnessing the attack on american democracy. a new msnbc documentary takes us inside washington through his eyes as the former
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constitutional law professor served as lead impeachment manager during trump's second impeachment trial. right in the middle of all of the political madness coping with the loss of his 25-year-old son to suicide. >> voltaire said, anyone who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. >> democracy is fragile. and at this hour, my friends, democracy has prevailed. >> tom is a person who loved the world and he loved democracy. i feel like i honor him by doing the work that he'd be proud of. >> now is our moment to make it happen. >> we're not unified by being one ethnicity or one religion. we're unified by one constitution. >> a new msnbc film, "love & the constitution" airs tomorrow. but right after this break, a woman who witnessed those moments by raskin's side. chief of staff jailie tagen is next. n is next
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just plug and play. see ya cable! 5g ultra wideband is now in more and more places. verizon is going ultra, so you can too. why is america such an
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extraordinary country? we are not unified by virtue of being one ethnicity or one ideology or one religion. we're unified by one constitution and one rule of law. and then the values under our constitution. it is an aspiration. it's a challenge to us. the constitution shouldn't be some kind of fetish document. it should be the living commitment that we all have to make democracy work in the service of the common good. >> representative jamie raskin there in msnbc's new film "love & the constitution" which takes an inside look at working on capitol hill during the trump presidency, how raskin coped with the capitol attack just
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days after losing his son tommy. with us is someone who knows congressman jamie raskin better than most, his chief of staff julie tagen. julie, thank you so much for being with us. we spoke with the director of this documentary. she talked us through how the idea evolved over time. tell us what it was like to be there as it was all unfolding. >> well, it was just really fascinating to be a part of it. you know, the filmmaker madelyne followed us around for about three years. and she -- you know, she just was a fly on the wall the entire time. she really got to see what -- she got to see all about jamie and what he's about and how he interacts with people. so it was a really fascinating process to be a part of. >> three years is a very long time, long enough to see a number of events that no one could have anticipated. the documentary, one of the things i was struck by having
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seen an early rendering of it is just how intimate it really is. how it's not always the congressman in his office. there's a lot of down time with the congressman. you know him. you work with him up close and personal. what is he like when he is not the jamie raskin we see on television? >> i've got to be honest, he is a lot like the jamie raskin that you see on television. he's an incredibly optimistic person. and he has a lot of energy and enthusiasm for whatever he does. and that energy and enthusiasm is really contagious. and it goes down to his staff, to anyone who interacts with him. they really get to know him and see him for his intelligence, his love of the country and his love of the constitution. >> julie, january 6th was obviously an incredibly scary day for everyone who was inside the capitol.
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what was your experience on that day? >> well, i was in the capitol. i was in a room off of the house floor, about 30 feet from the floor. i was with jamie's daughter tabitha and her son -- his son-in-law hank. and it was terrifying. i think all three of us, i know myself, i thought i was going to die that day, and we barricaded ourselves in and waited for the rioters to break down our door. i stood before the door with a weapon that i found in the room, and thought i would use that to protect us when they got through. it was probably the most terrifying experience of my life, something that i will never forget. and especially the sounds that
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came from the rioters and the pounding and the banging and the screaming for trump and to hang mike pence. it's just something i'll carry with me the rest of my life. >> yeah. and i cannot imagine what it is like now to hear the rnc try to describe that as legitimate political that as legitimate political discourse. when the congressman was impeachment manager. she threw him a lifeline. what was it like watching him prepare for that role, that moment in history, given everything that was happening with him personally? >> well, i do think as he has said that he really felt like tommy was with him. so he -- he worked with it like tommy was with him. he was very, very generous with the other impeachment managers. and very thoughtful. he really analyzed what they all
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did, and what they're best at and he gave them roles so that they could be the best that they could be. and i think he put together a really fantastic team for the impeachment. he also really was very, very focused on, you know, carrying out that duty, and i think it helped him emotionally to think like in some ways, i'm doing this for tommy. >> you know, julie, one of the things that stays with me from the congressman's floor speech was what he said about his daughter tabitha. that tabitha said, dad, i don't know that i ever want to come back to the capitol and i think there were a lot of people in the building that day. had a feeling that i want to put as much distance from myself and what i have just endured as possible. for you as a public servant, as someone who went back to the work, who chose to go back to the work, how did that change your commitment to the work
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itself? >> well, i'm more committed than ever because i want to make sure that people never forget that day, and everything about it. i mean, i went back to the room that i had barricaded myself in that night, and stayed until the end, until 3:00 in the morning when it was over. and i think that there are a lot of staff and capitol police who are there every day, still, there to help make things better, and to make sure that something like this could never happen again. >> julie, thank you for your time tonight. you can watch love and the constitution this sunday, 10:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. next, missing the target, what all these republican book bans really tell us about the party's priorities. but first, a preview of what is ahead tonight on ayman. hey there, i'm ayman -- bill
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taylor joins us to discuss the ongoing crisis with russia. join us for ayman tonight 8:00 eastern right here on msnbc. r a0 eastern right here on msnbc. we discover exciting new technologies. redefine who we are and how we want to lead our lives. basically, choose what we want our future to look like. so what's yours going to be? ♪♪♪ my name is austin james. as a musician living with diabetes, fingersticks can be a real challenge. that's why i use the freestyle libre 2 system. with a painless, one-second scan i know my glucose numbers without fingersticks. now i'm managing my diabetes better and i've lowered my a1c from 8.2 to 6.7.
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as one writer puts it, we're seeing a nationwide tsunami of stupidity and shortsightedness. the author, louise lowry, is one of many whose books are being banned in
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schools across the country. lowry calling the right wing outrage over books more than a trend. we seem to be, quote, heading down that treacherous patch again. i don't know how we stop it, except in the voting booth. this week alone, in polk county, florida, county officials removed 16 titles from its schools books that address race, lgbtq plus issues and other topics deemed controversial by the right, by parents, by adults, not by students. in fact, it's really thanks to a group called county citizens defending freedom, an outside group that went to florida, went to polk county and successfully pressured officials to remove the books. claiming the titles violate florida law. a spokesman for the county school says the books aren't banned, they're just unavailable, while they're being reviewed. books, available for years, taken off shelves. now unavailable to students. but it's not a ban. also this week, state legislators barrelled through
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dissent by democrats to advance the bill to ramp up scrutiny the way public school library books and instructional materials are chosen, giving parents a say and a search engine to see what's lurking on the bookshelves of their kids' campuses. florida democrats calling this a, quote, slippery slope of censorship. republicans in florida and across the country say they're doing this because they care about the safety and the innocence of our children. kind of hard to believe when they refuse to take action on real issues that children do face in schools every day across this country. issues like guns. data compiled by "the washington post" finds kids with guns fueled a record number of school shootings in 2021. some 42 acts of violence committed on k through 12 campuses during regular hours in 2021, the most since 1999. it's a threat, especially facing students in florida, which as you will remember, is home to the worst school shooting in american history. parkland, florida, marjory stoneman douglas high school, the year was 2018, one of the
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students who survived, david hog tweeting a reality check that we're going to leave with you tonight. we know how many kids and staff books killed at my high school? zero. you know how many kids and staff a former student killed with an ar-15? 17. guess which one the florida legislature is working to ban? that's all the time i have for today. i'm alicia mendez. i'll see you back here tomorrow for more. and now over to ayman mohyeldin. >> what a powerful way to frame the way around the conversation, reminding us books are not killing the people, the things that are actually killing people, you could still walk into a school and carry unfortunately. >> focus on solving real problems. >> absolutely. thank you, as always, my friend, good to see you, enjoy the rest of your evening off and good evening to you at home. welcome tonight. former president mike pence publicly called out his former boss to pressure him to overturn the 2020 election results. let's not forget all the times pence stuck with trump.
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we're going to tell you about that. congresswoman sheila jackson-lee is here live to discuss that, and more. plus r we know president biden is sending 3,000 u.s. troops to eastern europe as tensions build between russia and ukraine. why is the u.s. getting solved in this crisis? and more importantly, what should the u.s. do about it? former u.s. ambassador to ukraine bill taylor is here to explain that and more. debunking conservative claims about the reason behind a recent spike in violent crimes. facts matter. we're going to walk you through them. i'm ayman mohyeldin, let's get started. ♪♪ well, after years of wondering, this week we finally learn just how far mike pence is willing to go for donald trump, and what his eventual breaking point. would be. it didn't come in 2016 when the access hollywood tape was
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