tv Morning Joe MSNBC February 18, 2022 3:00am-6:00am PST
as it was is dead. >> let's go with son of build back better, if that legislation does get revived. you are right, certainly the supreme court pick is number one on the white house's list right now beyond the ongoing situation in eastern europe. john bresnahan of punch bowl news, have a great weekend. we hope you have a great weekend, too. a jam packed "morning joe" starts now? >> do you believe former president trump should be speaking at cpac this weekend? >> yes, he should. >> congresswoman cheney? >> that's up to cpac. i have been clear on my views on president trump and the extent following january 6th i don't believe he should be playing a role in the future of the party or the country. >> on that high note, thank y'all very much. one year ago kevin mccarthy
and liz cheney clearly were heading in opposite directions and that split is now complete as the minority leader endorses a primary challenger to the wyoming republican. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is friday, february 18th. with us we have the host of "way too early" and white house bureau chief of "politico" jonathan lemire and "new york times" washington bureau chief elizabeth miller. joe, not surprising but extraordinary nevertheless that the man who could be the next speaker of the house is now endorsing an opponent to liz cheney in that raise in wyoming. >> yeah, you know, liz cheney from the very beginning separated herself -- i say from the very beginning. from certainly 2020 when covid started up, you had republicans that went right down the trail of all of the conspiracy theories. she also spoke up, spoke out about that. there was also -- there was also an interesting time i remember because it involved me where
donald trump was accusing me of being a murderer. and somebody asked kevin mccarthy, said, hey, what do you think about what donald trump is saying about joe scarborough . of course, his weak, lame response, pathetic response was, oh, i didn't serve with scarborough and i -- i didn't know anything about the case. well, you don't have to know anything about the case because there was no case and you don't have to serve with me to know that it is a pretty bad thing when the family is begging the president of the united states to stop with the conspiracy theories because it is causing them excruciating pain. they said stop. liz cheney after kevin mccarthy's press conference seeks out the press, follows them and says, hey, you know what? the president should stop talking about joe scarborough , basically says it is gross, the conspiracy theories need to stop, we need to get to work at the business at hand.
it is very interesting that that, of course, caused a little rift between the two there, that she went to his press conference, the press conference was over, and then she felt the need to clean up again, willie, just some egregious behavior on his part. and it time and time again and, of course, we saw it on january 6th when kevin mccarthy supposedly was going to, you know, be a straight shooter and then goes down to -- goes down to trumpville and kisses the brass ring. it is really -- so we'll see what happens. i know there are a lot of republicans, a lot of former republicans, some former republican presidents that are sure hoping liz cheney wins that race. >> yeah. remember what liz cheney's crime for which now she has been basically tossed out effectively of the republican party is she said january 6th was bad and that donald trump lost the presidential election. pretty fundamental stuff, but puts her on the outs in the republican party now. in a moment we'll get to the
latest with the tense standoff between russia and ukraine. andrea mitchell is traveling with secretary of state tony blinken at a key security summit in munich. we will go to her live. first, hillary clinton's keynote address yesterday at new york state's democratic convention. the former presidential candidate took on donald trump, the republican party and fox news as she pledged to, quote, work her heart out to get democrats elected in november. >> and we can't get distracted, whether it is by the latest culture war nonsense or some new right-wing lie on fox or facebook. by the way, they've been coming after me again lately in case you might have noticed. it is funny. more trouble trump gets into the wilder the charges and conspiracy theories about me seem to get. so now his accountants have fired him and investigations
draw closer to him, and right on cue the noise machine gets turned up, doesn't it? fox leads the charge with accusations against me, counting on their audience to fall for it again. as an aside, they're getting awfully close to actual malice in their attacks. >> republicans will claim they're on the side of parents and family values, but they will do nothing for actual parents or families, nothing on child care, nothing on paid leave, nothing to help working moms and dads get by and get ahead. they will do nothing to invest in our schools or make college more affordable. they'll ban books but do nothing about guns. they will make it harder for people to vote but easier for big corporations to bust unions. they will let polluters trash our environment and let donald
trump trash our democracy. >> so, joe, an interesting role now for hillary clinton, on the outside talking to democrats about how they ought to run in november. she also had a bunch to say, and she did when i interviewed her a couple of months ago, about how democrats need to think about winning in their district, that you can't have all of the -- some of the things we have seen from the far left and progressives. you can't run on those issues in every district and expect to win. >> tan, rested and ready. hillary in '24. i mean, listen, you talk to people close to hillary, they tell you there's no way she's ever going to do it again. elizabeth miller, you talk to rank-an-file democrats, they're not so sure they don't want to see her on the ballot once more. yesterday she laid it out more clearly than democrats have been able to do over the past year or
so. >> it is hillary unleashed. i was watching thinking she didn't do it in the campaign in 2016, not quite like that. what you are seeing is the real hillary, the one you hear about in private. you know, very aggressive. very partisan. no holds barred. you know, she's a very good weapon for the democrats right now, but i don't think i would see her on the ballot in 2024. i don't think she would ever do that again, despite what democrats may be urging her to do. i think there's just -- it is a tough race for a woman in this country, and i think there's just way too much baggage from 2016. >> yeah, and obviously there would be a field to clear, too. so there's a long between here and there. >> there's that, too. >> but democrats, many of them yesterday that i heard from privately said, this is the way, that we need to hear this message, we need to hear it from hillary clinton. >> yeah, i will say that i did get one text from a democrat who said, you know, retired
politicians don't usually address state political conventions to introduce the governor, which she was did and she talked for kathy hochul of new york state. i think she wants to be in the arena, she wants to play a role, more so than in 2020. that's the sense from people close to her. i heard from democrats, especially from the second bite we played where she talked about republicans, parents and guns, that she in a far more clear way layout the stakes between the parties better than we've heard from the white house in the past. it was a sharp attack, not just on trump which she is qualified to do, but on the republicans going forward, the part writ large. i do think, though i don't think we will see her name on the ballot again, there are a lot of democrats that hope those lines are in the mouths of democrats, house and senate candidates, going forward this fall as they try to hang on to both houses of congress. >> well, and i will say you also don't see former presidential
candidates going around campaigning in off-year elections. you see people that are gearing up for their own presidential elections, but i take what elizabeth says to heart. i will say she defined the situation right now with a republican congress, especially a do-nothing republican house that is running around talking about protecting parents, protecting families, protecting children, and their answer is trying to have culture wars over dr. seuss, banning books in schools. but hillary is right. you go down the list. nothing for child care. nothing for paid leave. nothing for working moms or dads. nothing to actually make the lives of children in america, of parents in america easier. absolutely nothing. so, you know, you go back to 1948 and harry truman's campaign for reelection, willie, where he talked about the do-nothing republicans. it would not be a bad theme for
democrats to pick up as they move towards the 2022 campaign, to listen to what hillary clinton said and start talking about the do-nothing republicans instead of always being on the defensive about what they say. put them on the defensive for what they do not do. in the house, they do absolutely nothing. >> well, hillary clinton has made it clear, you are going to hear from her whether on a ballot or not going forward, especially in these midterm elections. president joe biden meanwhile is warning russia could launch an attack on ukraine within the next several days and said the u.s. sees no signs russia is withdrawing any of its troops from the ukrainian border. >> how high is the threat of a russian invasion right now? >> it is very high. it is very. >> why? >> because they have not moved any of their troops out. they've moved more troops in. we have reason to believe that they are engaged in a false flag operation so they have an excuse to go in.
every indication we have is they're prepared to go in to ukraine, attack ukraine. >> reporter: sir, this is going to happen? >> yes. >> reporter: when? >> my sense is that it will happen in the next several days. >> this will happen in the next several days, said the president. his comments came after ukrainian officials said a kind guarden school in the eastern part of the country was shelled with heavy artillery weapons by moscow-backed separatists. the separatists accused the ukrainian army of firing on the territory they control. nbc news could not independently confirm the details of the incident. the state department says the move was unprovoked. in an escalatory step president biden will speak to discuss the standoff. world leaders gathering in germany today for the annual munich security conference. and that's where we find nbc
chief correspondent, andrea mitchell. what is the sense on the ground there how close ukraine may be to war here? >> reporter: there's a real crisis sense here and this is the annual gathering, not last year because of covid, but now the gathering of all national security officials, leaders from europe and, of course, the u.s., canada, and the nato gathering here as well as those on the front lines because president zelensky is expected, is that this could be several days away but it is really urgent that secretary blinken stopped at the u.n. yesterday and tried again to preempt any russian move, what they believe was going to be a strike with the pretext of that kindergarten shelling both ways in eastern ukraine, that that was a pretext for what they expected to be vladimir putin invading. they, of course, the u.s. claims
they did not draw down as putin claimed, that that incident was an attack against ukrainians, not ukrainians against russians as moscow claimed. this is what the western alliance, the uk, all of the western leaders, the nato leaders as well as of course secretary austin in brussels yesterday had been claiming. what they did was to call their bluff. what secretary blinken did at the u.n. was say, if you really believe in diplomacy, lavrov, foreign minister, come meet with me, let's talk about that. last night russia accepted. so they are going to meet later this week. blinken said they would only meet if russia does not invade in the intervening days. at least they believe as long as they keep putin talking there won't be an invasion. that is the hope. they keep doing unusual things, declassifying intelligence, showing every move that they think -- that they say putin is
making, trying to preempt him. so far they believe at least so far it is a successful strategy. >> so a hope for diplomacy there, that there will be the meeting with lavrov, andrea. but the president was pretty clear when he said yesterday on his way out of the white house, he said, this is going to happen in the next couple of days. what is the thinking now from the state department, from the white house about their hopes to prevent this? is there still time? >> reporter: they think there is now still time because the president that just before blink blinken's speech and after the speech, several hours later, russia accepted. their hope is that as long as they're talking he won't invade. but he has everything in place, he has not withdrawn despite russia's claims, and they're continuing to build up and support allies. just today the state department announced a $6 billion of a proposed sale of abrams tanks to
poland. they are reinforcing the nato countries on the border with russia, anticipating, you know, if there were an invasion there would be a refugee crisis in central europe. there's so much at stake. also, a lot of indications that the strategy of building up energy supplies here is not working. the saudis are disagreeing, refusing. the saudis are siding with russia in all of this in terms of increasing their production so that the oil supply and prices wouldn't spike as much as they could if there were an invasion and heavy u.s. sanctions. >> nbc's andrea mitchell in munich, germany. a critical conference happening there today. we will be in touch with you all day to learn about it. andrea, thanks so much. we appreciate it. joe. let's bring in right now former nato supreme allied commander, retired four-star navy admiral james stavridis. admiral, i have had people obviously over the past several days ask what i thought. i'm sure you are getting
bombarded by people asking what is going to happen. of course, we don't know but they ask me what is my gut. i said, you know, it doesn't make sense economically for putin. it doesn't really make sense militarily for him. doesn't make sense politically. i just don't see how this benefits russia, and i really don't. you just heard andrea mitchell's report. hundreds of advanced abrams tanks now being sold to poland. they're going to be sitting in poland. the 82nd airborne is in poland. we are going to continue sending more troops, not only to poland but to countries across central and east europe, some bordering on russia. please, explain to me how any of this in the long run benefits vladimir putin. >> first of all, you are absolutely correct, joe, that the irony of all of this is that what it seems to be accomplishing is precisely what putin doesn't want, which is
strengthening the alliance, increasing its military readiness. you will see military spending go up by the european countries. by the way, non-nato european countries with very competent militaries like finland and sweden may begin to think about nato membership. so i'm with you. it makes no sense. but let me give you three reasons i think from vladimir putin's perspective this might be a winner. number one, creates division amongst us in the united states and amongst our european allies if we can't hold the alliance together in the face of an actual invasion. putin is banking on germany perhaps peeling off on some of the economic and energy sanctions. he is betting on democrats and republicans to ultimately disagree whether to do sanctions now, whether to do sanctions later. so he creates some division,
that's our challenge to hold things together. number two from his perspective, he is playing not so much to nato and to the west. he is playing to the nations around the periphery of russia, kazakhstan, moldova, not only ukraine, belarus. he is showing them that russia is a primal, powerful nation that does what it wants to do. third and finally, joe, he has to play here with china in the sense that he is showing president xi the competence of the russian military, its capabilities. those two nations are drawing closer together. i think when he puts that package together and he adds to it, his resentment and anger at the west, you start to understand why he might do this even though it makes no sense to us from this side of the border. >> "the times" elizabeth
bumiller. >> hi, admiral. how long do you think he can keep the troops poised on the border? you there's a theory you talked about. he has the world's attention like he has never had it before, he is fortsing the west and the united states, the allies to do somersaults and have crisis meetings. is there a possibility he would do a small, a little invasion, what they call a military technical operation and then pull back at some point when he gets some kind of concession, say ukraine saying it doesn't want to be in nato? that's my question. how long realistically can he keep those kind of troops there? >> yeah, elizabeth, we should get you in the pentagon because those are the questions that the military is very focused on. believe me, putin's generals right now are asking that same question. it is cold out there. those are long-range deployed troops, many of them far from their homes.
it is expensive to keep all of that logistics flowing. i think the answer to your question is realistically he has a three to four-week window. he's not going to permanently park this force on the border. in terms of percentages of what happens here, i have been fairly consistent on this for a while. i think there's about a 25% chance he goes full-bore, shock-and-awe, blitzkrieg, go to kyiv, take out the zelensky government, 25%. 50% chance, elizabeth, your scenario. he comes in, comes kind of in the southeast, grabs a chunk of territory, holds on to it, tries to push negotiations. i think there's still a 25% chance that this can be resolved diplomatically and i think it is good that tony blinken and sergey lavrov, both of whom i know well, are going to have further conversations. let's be hopeful putin picks door number four instead of the
other three that i mentioned. >> hey, admiral. good morning. it is jonathan lemire. to your point about the clock ticking, reports yesterday from the defense department the russians had blood supplies heading to the border, of course blood very perishable. there's only so long they can keep it there. i wanted to ask you about the diplomatic option, in particular with the u.s. is trying to do to steer putin that way. they're in a remarkable way flooding the zone with information, putting everything out there where the secretary of state dashes to the u.n. to talk to the global audience. do we think there's a chance the strategy is boxing putin in to say, hey, we know you are coming and therefore putin's response is to not or could it just provoke him further? >> it is a mug's game to try to predict exactly how vladimir putin is thinking, but the attempt here -- and i applaud it on the part of the administration -- is if a burglar is sneaking up to your house, turn on the lights. let everybody in the
neighborhood see what is happening. hopefully that will create some deterrence. secondly, jonathan, it takes the military edge, the tactical element of surprise away from the russians. this is now the most telegraphed potential invasion in human history. that's a good thing because it sharpens the mind for the morning when the invasion might actually start. so i think there's both a military component and a sensible, diplomatic component. show the world what is going on. rally the democracies. i think that's been the strongest thing the administration has done thus far. >> retired admiral james stavridis, successfully avoiding the mug's game this morning. thanks so much. we appreciate it. at the top of the hour we will be joined by the u.s. ambassador to the united nations, linda thomas-greenfield, amid concerns that russia will invade ukraine. she summoned secretary of state blinken to the u.n. security council meeting. plus, a judge ordered former
president trump and two of his adult children to testify as part of an investigation into the family's business dealings. we will dig into that new ruling and what it means for the new york attorney general's civil case. also ahead, the women's individual figure skating event in beijing ends in tears after a shocking upset on the ice. we'll have the latest from the winter games. and millions of americans now under a winter weather alert this morning. we are tracking the path of a major storm moving across the country right now. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. g "mornin" we will be right back. ♪ i see trees of green ♪ ♪ red roses too ♪ ♪ i see them bloom for me and you ♪ (music)
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welcome back to "morning joe." mike barnicle joins the table. russian figure skater kamila valiyeva placed fourth in the women's individual skating event in beijing. the 15 year old, who was heavily favored to win gold and was in first place before the free skate, made a series of uncharacteristic falls and stumbles during her program, knocking her out of a medal. she was later seen sobbing as the scores were read and seemed to be admonished by one of her coaches as she left the ice. had she made the podium there would not have been a medal ceremony as the ioc is investigating the skater for alleged use of banned substances. the emotional night on the ice continued after her stumbles allowed her teammate to take the gold. her other team made took second and appeared distraught over those results. the "ap" reports she shouted at the side of the rink, i hate this sport, i won't go on to the ice again.
she said she was happy with the skate but not with the result, an apparent jab at the judges. she later in a press conference said her comments about not skating again had been, quote, emotional, the result of missing her family and her dogs, she said. the condemnation of how valiyeva was treated by her coaches has been swift. international olympic committee president thomas bach said he was disturbed by the intense pressure placed on the young skaters and criticized the coaches without naming them. bach said, after i saw how she was received by her closest entourage with what appears to be a coldness, it was chilling to see this. rather than giving her comfort, rather than to try to help her you could feel this chilling atmosphere, this distance. meanwhile, mike tirico called on the ioc to take action. during last night's coverage he said the adults in the room left her alone. portrayed by some this week as the villain, by others the victim. she is in fact the victim of the
villains. he went on, the coaches in the olympic committee surrounding kamila valiyeva, whether they orchestrated, prescribed or enabled all of this is unclear, but what is certain they failed to protect her. strong comments from mike tirico on the broadcast last night talking about the adults failing valiyeva, who, again, is 15 years old, viewed as the best figure skater in the world, favored to win the gold and you could see it painfully unravel on the ice yesterday. >> it really was. she was under a tremendous amount of pressure because of how things were handled leading into the olympics, and then after the loss, and there was a piece in "the washington post" i read last night i thought was really moving about valiyeva's torment will be the sad legacy of the beijing olympics. it was by column nis jerry brewer and reads in part this. on thursday night, the sport did what the court of arbitration for sport declined to do after her positive drug test shook these beijing olympics. it took action and handed down
the cruellest punishment possible. the result broke the child. failure and misery are more prevalent in sports than we care to acknowledge, but this was another level. this was torture on ice. the beijing games have been tagged with a seminal catastrophe and a legacy that cannot be expunged. they will forever be the olympics that tormented a 15 year old, invited a doping signature to a signature event and hoped to cover it all with extra sequins. mike barnicle, just disgusting. it is disgusting how they treated this young girl from the very beginning with three heart medications for obviously an extraordinarily gifted young athlete who is 15 years old. and then again, just being absolutely brutal, cold and chilling to this young girl after she lost. >> you know, joe, the key is -- and you just mentioned it, she is 15 years old.
think about that. 15 years old on a worldwide, a global stage in the olympics, and she is under the tutelage of some of the worst offenders of athletic excellence and sportsmanship, russian coaches. it is not just the ice skating coaches the russians are notorious for. gymnastic russian coaches, they're cruel, they are intimidated clearly by whoever is their boss, whoever is supervising them, and they take it out clearly in front of the whole world on the stage, on the global stage on the athletes. but this is particularly offensive because she is 15. you know, when your kids were 15 years of age, you know how young they are. they are young in more ways than just years. they're young emotionally, they're fragile emotionally, and the pressure on this young woman had to have been enormous. she shouldn't have been on the ice to begin with, having tested positive for a drug that was
banned. that's just part of it. but it is a sad, sad story that will be enduring. it will be mentioned every olympic years going forward. >> jonathan, mike touches on something that also is true. her treatment was terrible, but also most people think she shouldn't have even been out there because she did test positive for whatever she was taking this medication, for a banned substance, and she should not have been out on the ice. it was a look-away moment yesterday. i mean you didn't want to watch it, you didn't want to be a part of it, you didn't want to participate in any way, to watch this kid truly unraveling under the pressure that the world had brought down on her. >> the name of the event is women's figure skating but this is a girl, a 15-year-old girl figure skating and it was extraordinarily difficult to watch. people i know who were watching all over twitter were saying they had to turn it off, it was so difficult to see her meltdown there because she is a girl. you are right, i mean odds are that heart medication that she was found to have taken, you know, i know her cover story is
it was accidental, she took it from her grandfather. it seems unlikely. if it is indeed it wouldn't be the olympics without a russian doping scandal. this is something that the adults in her life, the coaches, they're the ones that probably foisted this upon her and they've let her down repeatedly. they let her down in the run-up to these games and they certainly let her down last night. you saw it, not just valiyeva, but her teammates too, the emotional break down they had with extraordinary pressure put on them from their coaches, from other adults. they've been failed. again, this is a 15-year-old girl, not a woman. >> well, elizabeth, not only was she not supposed to be on the ice, the russians shouldn't have been at the games at all. i think we all feel for the young russian athletes who worked their entire life since they were what, 4, 5, 6 to get to these games, but the russians have cheated year after year after year. there's a doping scandal in russia every two years. they're not allowed to walk under their flag, but they come
anyway, and we still have the doping scandals. the rules obviously when it comes to the ioc do not apply to the russians. >> yes. and then this poor young woman, i don't see how she ever recovers from this and gets over this. i mean she is 15 years old, and it seems like -- again, i don't know how she comes back from this. you are right, this is completely -- this has been a pretty -- this has not been a wonderful olympics, shall we say, this time. it is not -- i mean she had this horrible situation, but i've noticed there's been so much disappointment and so much emotion out there with these athletes who now speak so openly about their psychological states, about they're not mentally ready. we've seen mikaela shiffrin, you know, again not -- just not even get a medal. we saw it in the summer olympics. that's what is striking to me. this is a different case. it is doping, but in has not been a terrific olympics i would
say for any of us. >> this obviously a terrible, terrible ending to one of the most popular competitions in winter olympics. i'm sure more to come, but coming up here former president donald trump is in talks to sell the lease to his d.c. hotel but could the lease be terminated before he's able to even do that deal? we will look into that. plus, civil rights leaders meet with several nfl team owners and executives including commissioner roger goodell in the wake of the racial discrimination lawsuit. the reverend al sharpton was a part of that meeting and he joins us ahead. before we hit the break, willie, what do you have planned this weekend for sunday weekend fans and sunday today fans and, of course, little jack? >> little jack running down the stairs, putting on his britches and suspenders and asking, who does willie have on, papa. this week it is emmy golden globe and tony winner tony shalhoub, one of the great stars of the series ""the marvelous
mrs. maisel". we got together and had a great meal and a great conversation about his career and about season four of "the marvelous mrs. maisel" which starts today streaming on amazon prime video. that's coming up this sunday. on "sunday today" over on nbc. we will be right back on "morning joe." will be right ban will be right ban "morngni joe." people are taking financial advice from memes. [baby spits out milk] i'll get my onesies®. ♪ “baby one more time” by britney spears ♪ e*trade now from morgan stanley. it's still the eat fresh refresh™ so subway's upping their avocado game. we're talking just two great ingredients. perfectly ripe, hand-scooped hass avocados and a touch of sea salt. it's like a double double for your tastebuds. subway keeps refreshing and refreshing and refreshing...
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>> yeah, it is a messy friday, a quieter weekend, but we're recovering from the storm in a lot of areas and we still have damage yet to be done, especially in southern new england. it is 63 degrees to start our morning in the middle of february in new york city. very unusual. so here is the issues we have been dealing with. a lot of flooding problems, especially in the ohio valley, southern great lakes. we had a lot of snow melt, we had ice jams forming on a lot of rivers like the one we will show you in buffalo, and we have flood problems in numerous areas from ohio to kentucky, indiana, western new york is dealing with it. what happens is the ice breaks up and it gets clogged. you put a ice in a glass, it overflows. we have a lot of river flooding problems. we had severe weather to deal with in areas of the south. we had a couple of tornados in areas of central alabama. we did not have any injuries thankfully, no fatalities also, but there was some daniel. this is from leeds, alabama. the people in this mobile home
got out safely as the tree fell on their property. let's get into what we will deal with the rest of today. thunderstorms will be clearing out of new england. yes, thunderstorms in fen in the morning have been rolling through philly and new york city. now they're going to slide through connecticut and long island as we go through the rest of the morning, and that's the worst of it and the cold air moves in. it is 13 degrees in detroit. it is 65 in d.c. 52 degrees warmer in d.c. than detroit, but the cold air will be moving in during the day today. we have 86 million people under wind alerts. that means a lot of people at the airports will have significant delays. the worst and the highest winds will be long island, nantucket, southeastern portions of rhode island and massachusetts today. that's where we could gust up to 50 to 60 miles per hour this morning. as i was saying, joe, the rest of the country looks quiet. the weekend, not bad. sunny and warm for the southern half of the country. no big storms this weekend. we just have to get through this morning. >> bill, how has the winter
been? has it been harsher than usual or about the same? i mean we have been -- at the end of every year we hear it is a warmer year than ever before. how are we starting out this year? >> well, december was unbelievably warm, and then we had kind of a typical january with, you know, snow and the cold. the first half of february started out cold and snowy, but we've quickly gone into a very warm weather pattern and it looks like we will end february off the eastern seaboard very warm right into the beginning of march. if you haven't had any snow yet or don't have any snow on the ground, you may not get anymore. it could be an early spring. >> all right. bill karins, thank you so much. have a great weekend. still ahead, the far right's effort to oust liz cheney is going beyond supporting her opponent. donald trump and his allies are now trying to change the wyoming election laws to work against her. what a surprise. we'll explain that on "morning joe." surprise. we'll explain that on "morning joe.
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♪♪ a new york judge has ordered former president donald trump and two of his kids to testify as part of an investigation into the family's business practices. former president, ivanka trump and don jr have been fighting subpoenas from new york's attorney general, letitia james, but now all three will be required to appear in depositions within the next 21 days. in court yesterday trump's attorney argued he is being persecuted by james because of his, quote, protected class. not exactly sure what that means. the judge responded saying this. the traditional protected classes are race, religion, et cetera. donald trump doesn't fit that motto. wait a second. is a protected class like silver spoon, trust-fund baby who was
given $400 million by his father and loses it all and declares bankruptcy like eight or nine times, then runs for president, loses the popular vote twice and manages to be the first president since herbert hoover to lose the white house, the senate and the house in his first term? that's quite a unique protected class. the judge said he wasn't being discriminated against based on race or religion, so he's not a protected class. in an eight-page ruling the judge attacked arguments by trump's attorneys from all sides. he ridiculed trump's lawyers for claiming the civil and criminal investigations were moot after trump's long-time accounting firm cut ties with him earlier this week. the judge likened that argument to dystopian slogans like war is peace in george or well's novel "1984." the ruling gives a green light
to trump, ivanka and don jr to be deposed within the next three weeks. donald trump has also been ordered to turn over documents and information that have been subpoenaed within 14 days. the former president's lawyers have indicated they will appeal the ruling. with us now nbc news investigative reporter tom winter. state attorney for palm beach county, david aaronberg and host of nbc's "politics nation" and president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton. elizabeth bumiller has a question for you, tom. >> here is my question. if you are trump's lawyer, do you tell him to take the fifth in this deposition or do you tell him to try, because that doesn't look so good, or do you tell him to try to get through it, realizing that he has sometimes a very shaky relationship with true facts? so what do you do? >> based on legal analysts that i have spoken with, it doesn't matter who would be put in this
position. unless you have absolute command and control of the facts in the underlying financials, they will be very, very specific here as far as asking questions about his business, trying to test his knowledge of it, how much he actually knows what occurred, who told who what. unless you have a complete and total command of those facts and recall, it is probably a situation where because of this ongoing criminal investigation why do you want to provide any potential ammo for that criminal investigation when you're answering questions in a civil deposition. so i think for that reason any attorney that you would speak to would advise the president for almost the entirety of this to assert the fifth amendment privileges because you don't want to slip up and say something that could potentially be misconstrued, that could assist a criminal investigation. when we talk about the president specifically and we see the statements that he has made and, as joe referenced, the ways that the judge attacked his legal
arguments, the ways that the judge attacked the statements, you know, we spoke about it earlier this week. they put a statement out after mazar says you can no longer rely on the financial saying, see, this vindicates it. they say in here there's no material errors, so this investigation is moot. the judge wrote, to claim that mazar's red flag warning that the financials are unreliable renders the investigation moot is as audacious as it is preposterous. when you see those type of statements attacked the way they were, that's just by a judge making a ruling on it, what are you going to say in a civil deposition that's going to help you out? i can't see a way where the president doesn't assert his fifth amendment privileges as many times as he wants to. >> tom, clearly there's more peril here to donald trump than there was in an impeachment trial in the united states senate i would think. the other aspect he could claim
that his lawyers have told him to take the fifth, do you think he is incapable of stopping talking in his own defense? >> well, that remains a huge question. that remains to be seen. as far as your observation that he is in more peril than in impeachment, certainly, because the things he could say here, the representations he could make here could impact a criminal investigation. when he was impeached nobody was going to put him in handcuffs. that does raise the possibility of this when you go and speak before a deposition. when you are under oath it could potentially be used in criminal process, number one. number two, when you talk about the discipline, and lawyers talk about it when they say client discipline, they're going to ask him -- you know, in a criminal proceeding you typically assert your fifth amendment privilege and it is over. your right to not make statements to self-incriminate yourself. when you are in a civil deposition they can ask you as many questions as they want as long as they want. you look at eric trump. the attorney general's office
says he asserted his fifth amendment privilege over 500 times. you would not normally do it in a crill nal proceeding, but in a civil proceeding in the state of new york which this is, you can show it to a jury and say, they asserted their fifth amendment privilege to this question. they asserted their fifth amendment privilege to that question. it can be cumulative to the whole thing. you will have donald trump in a room answering questions for hours a time. the answer is yes, can he hold his tongue. >> dave aaronberg i think we have assessed his client discipline as pretty low. i want to get your assessment of what is next. if he and his children take the fifth amendment over and over, 500 times or whatever it might be, where does this go from here? walk us through the next steps
of what the probe might look like. >> if he takes the fifth amendment it can be used against him in a civil trial. it protects you against self-incrimination but it can have a negative inference against you in a civil trial. it is a civil matter. i don't think he has good options. if he doesn't take the fifth, as tom says, what he says can be used against him in the parallel criminal investigation going on in manhattan. that's why he sought door number three, which was to stop everything but it was never going to work here. he is boxed in. either he takes the fifth, he doesn't or he commits perjury which would be a crime as well, which is why i always thought trump's greatest legal threat comes not from the department of justice but from state prosecutors in the empire state. >> it looks that way. david and tom, thank you both. elizabeth dumiller. thank you for being here. coming up, ambassador to the
united nations, linda thomas- greenfield, is going to join us to weigh in on the situation in ukraine and whether a diplomatic resolution is still possible. "morning joe" is back in a minute. "morning joe" is back in a minute (music) ♪ i think to myself ♪ ♪ what a wonderful world ♪ find your rhythm. your happy place. find your breaking point. then break it. every emergen-c gives you a potent blend of nutrients so you can emerge your best
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♪♪ welcome back to "morning joe." it is friday, february 18th. we've got jonathan lemire and mike barnicle here. the reverend al sharpton is still with us. rev, before we dive into the news you were part of another meeting yesterday between nfl commissioner roger goodell and civil rights leaders. tell us about that. what happened? >> well, we had a virtual meeting. i was on from minnesota, and the commissioner goodell had with him this time rooney, who owns atlanta, and langston and about four of the owners along with me, mark mariel, derek johnson
of the naacp, reverend barber of the clergy coalition and melanie campbell. we laid out to them we are serious about making sure there is a timetable and goals set to deal with diversity in ownership because there's never been a black owner of an nfl team and nfl head coaches in light of the lawsuit that brian flores has filed, and that we wanted them to know even though they have now brought on to defend them former attorney general loretta lynch, who all of us have worked when, we hope they brought her on to resolve this law site and work through a diversity plan, rather than to think that they can put a face on that will back us up. we intend to go full forward in terms of having public money questioned on teams that are not diverse and direct action if necessary. we would rather work with them but we will be as adverse or cooperative as possible.
i told them, you know, that we enjoyed the halftime show of hip-hop at the super bowl, but we don't want a halftime show. we want a full-term commitment. >> there you go, rev. tell me, denver, could we have a change of ownership in denver in the next couple of weeks? i'm going to keep coming back to you on this one. what do you think? >> i think there's some discussion going on. i don't know what will happen. certainly there are some that are qualified financially as well as management that are black that could do that. i am hearing strong rumors. i have had some discussions that i can't divulge but i can't say there's there there, but i can say it is close enough to take seriously. >> boy, that would be a great first step, no doubt about it. >> no question. >> mike barnicle, yeah, let's go from football to baseball. mike barnicle, another pathetic showing by the owners and the players yesterday. the billionaires and the millionaires got together and
talked for 15 minutes and then i guess they had to go back to their yachts. >> yeah, well, this is going to be an important few days coming up, joe, because the owners know that, you know, it is crunch time. they don't want to lose any service -- they don't want to lose any games, but it is rapidly approaching the time when unless they have something done probably by the end of next week you probably are going to miss a few games at the beginning of the year. jonathan, my understanding is one of the principle bones of contention that hasn't been settled yet is service time before you hit free agency. right now it is three years. the players want it down to two years. the owners thinking it is going to cost them a lot of money. this whole thing comes down to, as joe just indicated, billionaires versus millionaires, it comes down to cash. >> yes, and what is deeply frustrating is they haven't started addressing the core issues of this. >> they haven't talked about the issues fans are interested in, pace of play. >> right. it is all peripheral stuff. joe, not only have they not had a deep dive on the core economic
issues, as mike just said, baseball itself has struggles from pace of play, from a discussion of how do you make the game, how to bring in younger fans, how to speed things up, pitch clocks, whatever it might be. none of that has been discussed yet. those are key decisions for the future of the sport. they have to happen down the road. two things on this. first date to remember is march 1st. people close to major league baseball say if there's no deal or at least significant progress that will mean opening day is pushed back. as of potentially monday they will sit down and hold perhaps multiple sessions a day. so it seems like finally after 75-plus days of this where they've barely spoken, negotiations are about to begin in earnest, we will hopefully see some progress on this.
>> let's hope. right now all they're doing is pushing them further away. a strike would be devastating for the fan base and for major league baseball and the players' attempts to bring younger players into the game. all right. thanks so much for the update. we will keep checking in. secretary of state antony blinken is in munich this morning. he has a security conference where the russia/jurks standoff will be the main issue. before he left here blinken changed his travel plans to speak at the u.n. security council where he says u.s. intelligence indicates moscow is preparing to launch an attack and it could happen in the coming days. he also spelled out what a russian invasion could look like. take a listen. >> we don't know precisely how things will play out, but here is what the world can expect to see unfold. russia plans to manufacture a
pretext for its attack. this could be a violent event russia will blame on ukraine or an outrageous accusation they will level against the ukrainian event. russia may describe it as ethnic cleansing or genocide, making a mock of something in this chamber we do not take lightly. let me be clear. i am here today not to start a war but to prevent one. >> hours later a state department spokesperson said if blinken could meet his russian counterpart in europe next week provided there is no further russian invasion of ukraine. let's bring in u.s. ambassador to the u.n., linda thomas-greenfield. madam ambassador, thank you for being with us. you thought it was especially important that anthony blinken come to the united nations. why? >> look, given the gravity of the situation on the ground i thought it was important for the security council as well as the rest of the world, because this
was an open meeting, to hear directly from our top diplomat what we were seeing, what we were hearing and our concerns about what was happening on the ground. i thought that secretary blinken was effective in getting that message across to the security council. >> talk about your conversations that you can talk about with your russian counterpart and any indications of where you believe this crisis is going. >> i'm exactly in the same place as secretary blinken and the rest of the administration. what we see happening on the ground at this moment indicates that the russians are planning an attack. we are hopeful and, as you heard from secretary blinken, we are leaning in on diplomacy to try to find a way at the negotiating table to a solution to this that
does not lead to the devastating impact that a conflict would have on this country. >> madam ambassador, good morning. it is jonathan lemire. understandably, lots of focus right now on the u.s./russia dynamic but, of course, the third party to all of this is ukraine. could you tell us a little bit about your conversation with the ukrainians, your counterparts there yesterday, and how they perceived the dire warning to moscow? >> the ukrainian ambassador in new york was pleased with the statement that secretary blinken delivered. he messaged me in the middle of the statement to say how much he appreciated the forward- leaning approach we were taking. i meet with him regularly. i consult with him regularly, and i think that he has no doubt
that the russians would attack and he's very appreciative of the support that we're providing them. >> madam ambassador, secretary blinken's address yesterday was remarkable in a couple of instances. he alluded to steps that the russians may be about to take within ukraine during an attack. clearly some of it was forecast by intelligence that we have gathered from inside russia, that was probably a message to vladimir putin in and of itself that we're reading his mail so to speak. but i'm wondering on an enter personal level, not a diplomatic-speak level, the russian delegation is sitting there during that speech that secretary blinken gave yesterday. what is the relationship that you have with the russian delegation on an everyday basis? i think people wonder, is it
contentious, do they speak? do you speak to each other in a friendly manner during the week? >> look, we are all diplomats and we're all professionals and, yes, we do speak to each other during the week. we engage with each other on issues, where sometimes we have a mutual interest and we can come together. but we know that we represent our own country and we represent the interests of our own country. so when we are sitting at the table we are perfectly willing to take off the kid gloves and address in a way so there is clarity where each of our governments stand. so on a day-to-day basis as with all diplomats, we have cordial relations. >> ambassador thomas-greenfield,
al sharpton. the question that is a delicate balance for you and others is that at one level the united states represents itself as the beacon of democracy and having nations like ukraine able to determine where they want to be and how they want to be governed, and at the other level having to deal with this cat-and-mouse back and forth with russia and how putin behaves. how do you balance the two when you have to deal with the practical situation of russia and china and dealing with what the country is supposed to stand for. >> certainly the united states stands as a beacon of hope for democracies around the world. i have said without doubt that we are not perfect in our democracy. we are an evolving democracy, and every day we are working to
correct ourselves. but what we see happening in ukraine, reverend sharpton, is an attack on democracy. every country where democracy is a value, every country should stand with ukraine because if their democracy is attacked they would want us to stand with them. i think that message has gotten through quite clearly. >> madam ambassador, mac reason is doing his best, it seems to me, talking about security arrangements in europe, what can you tell us about where the french want to go, how they want to change the post-war security arrangement? >> you know, i can't speak for the french government, but i can say we are united with the
french government and with the europeans on how we should respond to this attack on the security of a european neighbor, and our allies have been unified in saying to the russians that we are preparing to talk to them at the diplomatic table, and the fact that the french ambassador -- sorry, the french president is leaning in on diplomacy i think is a positive message that we are unified in our approach to russian. >> finally, let me ask you about any frustrations you have had since going to the united states with both russia and china as permanent members of the security council and able to veto anything that would hold either of those countries accountable? what is our strategy? how do we get things done in the united nations with those two road blocks. >> you know, we get things done by engaging every single day with other countries because sometimes the veto power isn't
as powerful as you might think when other countries are unified in expressing their concerns. right now despite the fact that russia has the veto power, russia heard from a united council that they should pursue a diplomatic approach and not a confrontation in the region. so i think that that isolation and that pressure has had an impact on them. >> all right. ambassador linda thomas-greenfield. thank you for being with us this morning. we greatly appreciate it. >> thank you. all right. still ahead on "morning joe," minority leader kevin mccarthy appears to cement his feud with one of donald trump's most vocal owe poern ents. i just don't know if i would go out of my way to pick on a cheney. plus, former secretary of state hillary clinton promising to work her heart out for democrats leading up to november. some democrats want her to continue to work leading to november 2024. we will talk about what that
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qulipta is a preventive treatment for episodic migraine. most common side effects are nausea, constipation, and tiredness. learn how abbvie can help you save on qulipta. if they had passed the no-knock law in minneapolis we wouldn't be at a funeral this morning. but just like i stood in this pulpit over daunte wright and told you they would pay and she going to be sentenced, a white woman going to be sentenced. i stand here to say you are going to pass the law. enough is enough. >> reverend al, obviously yesterday a very moving time for the family, but also as you told me the family is determined that he's not going to die in vain,
that you and other leaders are going to push to pass no-knock laws. talk about the funeral and also talk about his family's desire to make sure that he didn't die in vain. >> hundreds of people came out in the bitter cold yesterday to join the family in the final services and celebration of the life of amir locke. his mother and father both spoke as i did the eulogy, attorney ben crump passionately representing them. they all said they're determined this 22-year-old young man did not guy in vain. the place came into his home with his name not even on the no-knock warrant. he rolled over, had a registered gun, thinking that somebody had broke in his house. before they tried to taser him, warn him, anything, shot him and killed him. this has happened over and over again. these no-knock laws must become
the law of the land. it was part of what we tried to get with george floyd bill. i believe amir would have been alive if put technology the no-knock law against no-knock warrants in minnesota that we're going to support. i think it is something you have where you have breonna taylor to this, where police go in the wrong, looking for the wrong person and kill them. it is too much for police to have the benefit of having to continue to do this when it is unnecessary, and clearly it only happens in certain neighborhoods and certain people. >> and we've seen this happening for quite sometime. again, i don't understand how any american could think this made sense. i think most, most americans and most conservative second amendment rights americans would be the first to say if they're
sleeping in bed and they have a gun by their bedside and somebody kicks down the doors and starts coming in, they're going to grab their gun. >> absolutely. >> and probably start shooting to defend themselves. i mean in most states -- i mean you look what happened with trayvon, what was justified in the killing of trayvon. but you have stand-your-ground laws outside but then you add the castle doctrine to that. you are inside your home. somebody can -- i have just got to say i think most second rights defenders and supporters would say the same thing. you don't want to step in my house because if you step in my house, and i have heard them say this, i have said this. if you step in my house at nice and you kim down the door, i don't have to ask questions. i defend my house. that's the law, rev. that's the established law,
certainly in states like florida, alabama, across the deep south, across most of america. >> and the castle law, as you said, the fact is especially you going to defend your house when you know you're not guilty of anything, as amir was. he wasn't even the one that was on their no-knock warrant. what is stunning to me is that the defenders of the castle law have not come out and spoke. i waited and waited and waited, joe. i just knew a representative of the nra was going to join us yesterday to defend the second amendment rights of amir locke. so since they didn't, the rest of us did. >> well, it is surprising. i mean really if the second amendment, if his second amendment rights don't apply, if the stand-your-ground laws don't apply to him, if the castle doctrine doesn't apply to him, then it doesn't apply to anybody. i mean it is that simple. >> exactly. >> it seems to me that this is an issue that should bring
people together on all sides of the political divide. you know, not just for the protection of people in amir's position or in the neighborhoods you say are disproportionately impacted by this type of behavior, but for every american everywhere. well, anyway, we will follow that, rev. please keep us updated. let's talk now about hillary clinton delivering the keynote address yesterday at new york state's democratic convention. she got the attention of quite a few people including "morning joe's" paper of record, the "new york post." here is some of her message for fellow democrats and what she had to say about the republican party and donald trump. >> and we can't get distracted, whether it is by the latest culture war nonsense or some new right-wing lie on fox or facebook. by the way, they've been coming
after me again lately in case might have noticed. it is funny. the more trouble trump gets into the wilder the charges and conspiracy theories about me seem to get. so now his accountants have fired him and investigations draw closer to him, and right on cue the notice machine gets turned up, doesn't it? fox leads the charge with accusations against me, counting on their audience to fall for it again. and as an aside, they're getting awfully close to actual malice in their attacks. our adversaries around the world are watching. republicans are defending coup plotters. they're curbing voting rights at precisely the moment when democracy needs champions, when we should be standing together
against autocracies like russia and china. january 6th last year was a gift to them because they know something we need to remember. america is only as strong as our unity and our democracy allows us to be. >> republicans will claim they're on the side of parents and family values, but they will do nothing for actual parents or families, nothing on child care, nothing on paid leave, nothing to help working moms and dads get by and get ahead. they will do nothing to invest in our schools or make college more affordable. they will ban books but do nothing about guns. they it make it harder for people to vote but easier for big corporations to bust unions.
they will let polluters trash our environment and let donald trump trash our democracy. >> let's bring in washington bureau chief for "usa today" susan page and chief white house correspondent for "the new york times," peter baker. peter, i have to start generally about hillary clinton. i have always said hillary clinton when she is not running for president is extraordinarily able campaigner. despite her own protestations, she is very good politically. there's a reason why she had a 60% approval rating when she left as secretary of state. we often don't see this side of hillary clinton. certainly that speech was more persuasive than anything we saw on the 2016 campaign. >> well, of course, what we're going to see is lots of talk about what does this mean, does it mean she wants to try to come back herself in 2024. you actually see the fox crowd kind of happy about that idea, that they can have her again as
a target. she has been really, you know, following an interesting pattern the last four or five years in which she tried largely not to be too public, not to present herself as a convenient target for her opponents, but obviously she has decided this is a time she can come out and begin to play a leadership role at a time when the midterm elections will be so crucial for democrats and republicans this fall. >> and i think, susan page, she has made the right decision. if you are going to go in and do it, you don't do it halfway. you go out and you be aggressive. i thought the part of her speech that was i think most important was when she talked about coup plotters, talked about those who were pushing overturning elections. supporting autocracies across the globe. of course, there are people on
certain cable news networks that not only support those who hate democracy but who want to be cheering for russia instead. it is a toxic stew and hillary clinton took it head on yesterday. >> it is interesting. this is the kind of hillary clinton message we haven't seen in a couple of years. we haven't seen her out in this openly aggressive political way since she lost the presidency. what is significant to me is not only that she has chose chb to speck out in this political and public forum but there was a reception for her. there were a lot of democrats angry for her for losing in 2016, for not being a better candidate against donald trump. now i think there's an openness to hear what hillary clinton has to say again. >> yes, certainly republicans would cheer her return to the political stage. but it does seem like the people close to her said that she wants to play more of a role this time
around than perhaps she did in 2020. reverend sharpton, what could be her path? i don't think any of us expect to see her name on the ballot ever, but you don't ever say never. how can she galvanize them and be an effective messenger? some democracy said it was a good attack. what could she do for them going forward? >> i thought she was good yesterday. she could be the spokesperson that brings the fire back in a lot of democrats because many of the democrats see her as a victim in '16. let's not forget she won the popular vote. she was maligned. she was dragged through the mud in a way that mr. trump has not. and she just stepping on stage reminds them of that and i think she will be well received. let's not forget hillary clinton
has a substantial following, and as this party has moved more toward the moderates like eric adams and others, nobody symbol ices that moderation more than a hillary clinton or joe biden. >> no doubt about it. let's move on to this. house minority leader kevin mccarthy has officially endorsed congresswoman liz cheney's primary challenger. the latest move in the quest to take her out politically. mccarthy is backing hageman in the primary. the response offered by someone was, wow, she must be desperate. meanwhile, "politico" reports former president trump is lobbying to change how the state runs the election. on thursday legislation was introduced to prevent crossover
voting in a primary election. were the law to pass democrats, republicans or independents would no longer be able to switch party affiliate on the day of the state's primary to vote for a candidate in another party. peter baker, here we go trying to change election laws to make it harder for people to express their views and this time doing it in the middle of a political campaign. >> i think it shows basically they understand the broader population who wouldn't necessarily be traditional republican and primary voters might support liz cheney. in fact, they recognize buy buy -- wyoming is not trumpian as they would like it to be so they're trying to limit the people that can show up in the primary. you heard speculation, i don't know if she would consider it, that she would perhaps run as an independent in the fall so as to not limit the people who could vote on her fate basically. in that circumstance, this has been positive out there in the
various columns, you know, that the democrats wouldn't necessarily run a candidate so they could -- everybody who had a view of her could weigh in on this in effect. but she is in a tough position because it is a conservative state, it is a conservative party. she is obviously a very conservative republican herself. that's something that is lost in all of this. trump isis -- you know, she is fighter and she will push until election day. >> i mean tell me about it. talk about redefining conservatism. the biggest spending president of all time, the biggest deficits of all time, the biggest national debt of all time, the biggest budgets of all time, donald trump broke every record for spending. i said it for four years while trump was in the white house and republicans were doing nothing to stop him. they wouldn't even speak out against him. they were all spending like
drunken socialists and they're conservative? they try to blow nato into a million pieces. they bend over backwards to kowtow to russia. he tells xi that he thinks the concentration camps are just fine. this is not a conservative and trump was never a conservative. it is something i have been saying for five, six years. republicans know he is not conservative whereas liz cheney, well, she still is conservative. it just shows you -- i'm sorry, it shows you how stupid people are that they actually believe donald trump and believe in his definition of what a conservative here. here, a lifelong democrat that didn't hold a single one of their views until he decided he wanted to run for president and then suddenly he found, quote, religion. but he corrupted the party in the process. that's why you is somebody like liz cheney with a 95% conservative rating, lifelong
conservative rating now being cast as a moderate or a liberal. voters, i know you are some of the smartest voters in the word. you won't fall for that stupid trick. anyway, you look at this and, susan page, liz cheney actually does have a pathway forward even if she loses the primary. i think back to lisa murkowski in someone. she was defeated in the republican primary by a tea party crackpot and ended up saying, okay, i will run as an independent and so the republicans lost a vote. lisa murkowski ran as an independent and run. >> remember, she had the additional disadvantage of having a hard-to-spell last name and they would only count the write-in ballots that spelled her name correctly. you may remember the spelling lessons in alaska during the next campaign. i am intrigued by peter baker's
possibility -- he didn't propose this but mentioned it as a possibility, liz cheney would lose the primary, run as an independent and democrats would back away from the race to maximize her chances of winning. that would be based on the calculation by democrats they cannot win that seat. wouldn't that be an interesting turn around for people like kevin mccarthy and donald trump. >> i think peter baker deserves recognition for his definition of the republican party in donald trump's mind as being people who are for donald trump. kevin mccarthy has for a while tried to push cheney out. it was clear since cheney joined the january 6th committee after mccarthy pulled back the republican parties. cheney stepped into it, doing her patriotic duty. mccarthy addressing the fact they could be open the flood gates.
elise step an stefanik came out against cheney. most of the gop seems like they will be lining up against her. >> you know, it is so interesting that she would do this so soon after kevin mccarthy because i've been hearing from a lot of republicans on the inside that kevin mccarthy will never be speaker. if the republicans win, donald trump will either try to insert himself or try to sufficient somebody who he believes is officially layer and at least with elise stefanik, somebody who has rapidly has been in a race to kevin mccarthy to the trumpian bottom, she lines herself up in a position where she makes maybe donald trump will select her as speaker of the house. so we'll see what happens. fascinating. peter baker, let me did you about russia, the ukraine and
the white house over the past several weeks. there's been quite a transformation from joe biden. i go back to the press conference where he said a couple of things out loud he should not have said out loud, and there has been quite a strong correction since then. you look across central and eastern europe. you look at the 8 the until now in polian. you look at the weaponry now on russia's border. it has been an eventful two to three weeks and it has changed the look of central and eastern europe, not all in a way that vladimir putin would like. do you expect the white house to continue this? >> i think exactly the opposite of what vladimir putin says he wanted, right. vladimir putin says he wanted to get nato out of eastern europe. he says he wanted to get america out of europe in fact. basically the opposite has happened. you know, if he had done nothing
there might have been continual pull backs, gradual, of american troops and engagement in the european allies over time as we had the retrenchment in the last few years. remember, donald trump in fact was pulling back troops from germany. other administrations did as well. now suddenly it is the other way around. now suddenly an alliance that vladimir putin wanted to break apart has renewed mission. a mandate that seems clear. the one thing that nato always stood for was defending europe. when russia was not a threat it began to lose its identity. now he is reinvigorated at this point, even though there are differences. there are significant differences between american, germany and france, how they're handling it, broadly speaker the alliance has been reinvigorated in a way vladimir putin didn't want to see. now there are more troops in poland, romania and places like that, and that will have, you know, deleterious effects from
putin's point of view in terms of his security, if the idea was that they couldn't afford to have nato so close to their borders. >> i tell you what, an invasion of ukraine, it will be the exact opposite of what vladimir putin wanted to see. peter baker, thank you so much for being with us. we appreciate your insights. coming up, there are some people who actually believe, still believe, it is hard to believe, but they still believe that donald trump won the last election. that's what happens when you read websites that are run by chinese religious cults. others know perfectly well that he lost but they're still purposing the big lie. both groups make up a cabal of characters trying to run elections themselves. what does it mean to the political landscape ahead in america? we will talk about that when "morning joe" returns. about thn
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switch to xfinity mobile and get connected to the most reliable 5g network. talk with our helpful switch squad at your local xfinity store today. when you heard that phone call between former president trump and raffensperger, do you think that trump did anything wrong in that call when he asked him to find the votes? >> the context of that call was in the midst of tons of question marks about the election integrity issue in georgia, and i always heard that call and interpret it from the perspective of make sure we've got legal votes that are being counted. >> so, no, you don't think trump did anything wrong in that call? >> not from my perspective. those are issues others will determine, but, look, we have had such massive question marks with our election in georgia, and the more we go through this the more we understand, yeah,
there were gaping holes. and i believe that president trump won georgia based on what i see -- >> you don't think biden won georgia? >> i don't believe biden won georgia. >> it is unbelievable. gaping holes in what? your logic? i love -- and this is my favorite part of it. there are so many questions. there are so many questions. it is just like -- it is just like, you know, the congressman, why, you know, people are saying he is a martian, everybody is saying he is a martian. by the way, we're going to say he is a martian for the next six, nine months, maybe the next year. maybe chinese religious cults will put it on their website and say he is a martian. a year from now we may have to have nasa arrest him and do tests on him to see if he is a martian because, oh, my god, everybody is saying he is a martian. god, there's so many questions about the congressman being a
martian. no, nasa doesn't have to check the congressman out. he's not a martian. but you say nonsense for a year, you say nonsense for a year and a half, garbage that you know is a lie and that you convince a lot of people that it is a lie. it is, again, the jim and tammy faye baker "ptl club" model. it is just the ruse where you convince suckers, you lie to them enough every single day and you infiltrate wherever they get their news from, whether it is a cable news station or whether it is facebook and you keep hammering them over and over again. you lie every single day. none of the lies really add up and you keep telling the lies and you have republicans that actually one recount, two recounts, three recounts, recount after recount saying, this is on the up and up, donald trump lost. you have people doing the recount saying, yep, donald trump lost. then you have that.
you have that guy lying. he knows he is lying. he knows he is lying to his constituents, and he is doing it why? because the big lie he's actually convinced poor people, misguided people all over america that they were lied to by their government. they're doing it for a reality tv host. actually, i don't know if i told you this or not, but he is the first president since herbert hoover to lose the house, the senate and the white house in his first term. what an achievement. so they're lying for him? they're spreading the big lie for him. they're being the jim and tammy faye bakers of the 21st century for him? wow. well, the first thing you just heard from congressman jody hice of georgia.
he is, i'm sure before trump he was a nice guy. i'm sure he doesn't feel good about lying to you. i'm sure he doesn't feel good lying to the good people of georgia, but he's just one of the many candidates running in secretary of state races nationwide who are nationwide w are saying that donald trump won the 2020 presidential election, lying to constituents, lying to voteders. the reporting you just saw this that clip, chief political correspondent liz landers joins us. also with us former senior adviser kurt bardella, a columnist for usa today, the adviser to dccc. you seen this play out in colorado. you have been warning about this for some time. you say republicans won't be happy 95 changing the laws. they will try to rig the process electing people that will lie, spread conspiracy theories and convince voters donald trump actually won the 2020 election.
>> really, we talk about the mid-term elections and ba that means for congress and walk. something very important is happening in this election cycle. there are 27 secretary of state races going on in this country, in key pivotal states when you look at the presidential maps, states like colorado, georgia, michigan, arizona, nevada and really somehow in this warped world that we live in, these races have become a referendum on the 2020 election whether or not you believe reality and facts. tina peters she is challenging the current secretary of state. this is someone who announced her candidacy on steve bannon's podcast, steve bannon claims is a hero because she goes out there and is under investigation by a grand jury for basically election fraud. she was found not to be competent enough to oversee the election if her jurisdiction. this is someone that wants to
run the state of colorado elections, jody hice who voted to dessertfy the election. people said they don't believe joe biden is the president of the united states. it goes on and on and on. i tell you, for all the attention congress is going to get, eb needs to pay attention to what is going on in those down ballot races, secretary of state races, before anyone can get to vote on elect tractor-trailer college, these secretary of state play a crucial role in how these elections will play out. >> no doubt about it, liz, if are you running for secretary of state, you want donald trump's endorsement, there is an easy way to do it. all you have to do is say joe biden, when, let's see, the states we have here, arizona, georgia, michigan, those are some secretary of state candidates that he's already endorsed because they all three said the same thing. joe biden lost in 2020. >> yeah. achls, joe, i would say those are three key swing states that
trump lost in 2020. remember, i mean, georgia basically gave widen the majority in the senate and also that victory so i think that donald trump has been very -- he's been very strategic about endorsing in these three key states right now and i would say that, you know, when you listen to these secretary of state candidates, when i was reporting out this piece breaking the vote looking at there etc. to democracy. i know that's something you guys are covering on a daily basis, too, these candidates, in particular, would not commit in the case of mark fincham whether he would certify the 2024 presidential election results. i asked him that question on camera. he said, i'm not going to answer that question without knowing more about how the race is conducted. he is saying the quiet part out loud he will not commit to
certifying presidential elections or elections going forward. i think curt was talking about veteran should be watching these kind of races. i think secretary of state races are not something that most people pay attention to. i would say in this mid-term, race and also these primary races that will be coming up in the spring and summer, people should be paying attention to who is on the ballot for secretary of state. >> absolutely critical. mike barnical, liz pointed out, you look at three states, arizona, georgia and michigan what do all three of these states have in common? joe biden won them. there were multiple recounts. then you had republican officials, especially in the case of arizona and michigan but also if georgia speak out and absolutely broadside these conspiracy theorists. republican election officials saying these elections were clean, these people have no idea what they're talking about they
can do as many recounts and the fact is joe biden won it is split in the republican party because donald trump trying to get people to look back other republicans trying to look forward to 2024. >> liz pointed out an obvious and very dangerous aspect to what we are talking about here today. i would estimate 98% of americans, no matter what state they live in could name their state's secretary of state. it's just an office that people just fill in the blank, check the box, going down the ballot. but in this case, in this year, liz, as we've seen in the brief clip of the interview that we've showed featuring you and the fella from georgia, there is an enormous money raised throughout the country based upon living a lie or a lie that everybody here is familiar with, that most,
some people believe in the lie. and it's almost as if when you were talking to that person and i wonder if you've had this experience later or before or maybe will have it in the future, it's almost like talking to someone who is a narcotic haze, the belief in the lie is so genuine and they come off as being so genuine in ar tick lath why the election was fixed, bagged and joe biden was not elected legally. i am wondering about your thoughts on that aspect of what we are talking about here. >> i think when i talk with lawmakers, in particular, so fincham is an elected official in arizona and obviously hice is a congressman here in d.c. i think i see two thing happening. i think sometimes these republicans know that the big lie is a lie, it is not true, donald trump won the last election, but they're trying to profit off the big lie in some
cases raising a lot of money in these races, also elevate themselves in a way. i also think that there are true believers. i actually think in the case of mark fincham, he might be a true big lie believer. he stood up on the stage from the arizona rally we went to and reported from in january said he wants to dessertfy the election results, still in arizona, more than a year after the 20 election results, that's a talking point that i keep hearing on the campaign trail that has no meaning whatsoever at this point. because joe biden is in the white house. but there are people who i do think truly believe this. i this city dangerous, the most dangerous thing about the big lie is that there are voters who believe it. when i was in arizona, we talked with probably a dozen people before we went into the event him some of the folks i spoke with said they were not aware of who fincham was or really who was running for secretary of state yet in arizona, but they were interested in that specific
role in that race because of what they saw as being a stolen election in 20. so this is really i think steep into the voteer electorate. it could have an impact on the way people vote when they go into the ballot box if november. >> hey, curt, this is susan. let me ask you a question about the consequences of these elections that we see happening in these three key states for secretary of state. tell us what would have happened, we had a fair and free election in 2020, despite what former president trump and some other of his followers say. but we didn't have it by much. if those three secretary of states lots had been filled by these people who back trump, who believe this protestations about the election being fixed, how could the 2020 results have
been, have unfolded differently? what would have been different if that had been the case? >> susan, i think we would have seen an unprecedented constitutional standoff of a free and fair election. if you have people administering elections, willing to lie, who are willing to cheat, who are willing to steal, willing to commit crimes in order to get the outcome that they believe needs to happen, then our entire system basically gets thrown out. we are living in a real time coup in broad daylight. i think you look at the consequences here. i go back to tina petersen in coverages attend an event. they advocated for the murdering of her opponent to the point where they've never posted an editorial, the secretary of state needs the same level of protection now that the governor currently has, because of these type of threats. when you are willing to
normalize lies and live in delusion, you are willing to justify violence. that's where this is all going to go, if these people don't get it, they will go to violent outcomes to achieve what they want. it is a path toward extremism that one party has completely embraced and the outcome is going to be potentially very violent and could be deadly. >> kurt bardella and chief political correspondent advice news, liz landers. thank you both for being here. coming up next, one of our next guest comes face-to-face with vladimir putin, former ambassador michael mcfaul. i don't think vladimir putin thinks too much of ambassador mcfaul. next up, eastern europe braces for the possibility of war. plus, it was a terrible week for donald trump, dumped by his accountant, defeated in another
court battle with the state of new york and the durham investigation just got going the way he wanted, no matter what he wants. jonathan karl joins us to talk about donald trump's future and also his republican party. we are back in one minute. minute. minute. >> believe kayak compare hundreds of travel sites at once! get out! i will do no such thing. and don't use kayak to fly home, because it's not real! i'm going back to the room. compare hundreds of travel sites at once. kayak. search one and done.
. >> happy friday morning. it is 8:02. a good look at time's square. a little quiet now. things should start getting busy by i don't know july. actually, i think the city is waking up a little bit? it's so interesting in december early december, things were going almost back to normal. omicron hits and man it shut down fast. its been shut down january. you are starting to see some signs of life again in new york. >> yeah, last fall. the delta wave, when omicron showed up, they shut down again. i do think new york understandably because your city was the first epicenter in march
2020. very quick to react. when we know the drill, we are locking up. we hope this passes quickly. and, knock on wood, it seems like it has. the rate has really dropped. schools have stayed opened, credit to mayors deblasio and adams, the city seems to be coming back to normal. the big question mark, when are workers going back to offices? in the weeks ahead, i think we will see more life. >> i had the ceo susan page talk about some workers and a top executive that he was looking at his instagram account. there he was at tennis tournaments, there all of a sudden, in restaurants, taking pictures of food, there he was. you ask him to come in to have a meeting a couple weeks later, he
says, i'm not comfortable with omicron some that is the question. when new york city pre-omicron was alive, the clubs were packed, the restaurants were packed. the sports venues were packed. everything was packed. pan you drive down like 6th avenue or park, you drive down broadway, and those office buildings are still ghost towns. people who go clubbing, to restaurants, sporting events, people that go out all the time. somehow, some way they can't bring themselves back to getting back into all of those empty office buildings. >> well, i guess there is that risk-reward calculation people are making. whether to go back to my office or this big sporting event. i do think we're in a time of some transition that americans are trying to figure out kind of how we live with covid-19. how we live with it in a way
that's responsible and regionally safe and debate over schools, where initially a lot of concerns having kids in classrooms. the troughs are such that most parents want their kids to get that in-person learning. i am assuming they're ahead going back to the washington bureaus and the offices in new york. >> i am hearing, walter from younger people especially, reading about in the "time's," "the post," wall street, younger workers are desperate to get back one because they're so isolated and don't have the community insight and two they want to dive into their jobs. they have been in college. they started a job. they haven't been able to be around people that are running the offices, people that can teach them, help torn them, can
make them better. those are the people i really, i'm not so concerned about those upper level executives that want to take pictures of their food and won't come to the office. i'm worried about the younger workers who desperately want to get in to not only be a part of a team, to socialize, also want to find a mentor that can help them better at whatever they're doing. >> in my class yesterday at tulane, we talked exactly about this. we were talking about the founding of intel and how it created this great open work space when they created the company as to that you could have a culture of innovation. it's back on campus learning, but they use a scheduleer for kids for jobs. they want to go in on office and be onboarded. not a word i use, they use it
sometimes. which is to say, how do i find a mentor? how do i work with other people? i know collaboration comes from one u rubbing elbows with people. i think we open up everything. i think especially down here mardi gras has started. we have to protect the vulnerable. but we have to get back to work. >> no doubt about it. david leonard in this article shows a massive gap in covid deaths between the vaccinated and unvaccinated. specifically he looks at those counties that went for donald trump and those counties that went for joe biden. there wasn't much of a difference but now if you look at the graph, it is telling that the counties, especially the ones that went for trump big have much higher rates of death than those who did not.
david says it's such a tragedy that politics has gotten in the way of american's health. let's hope that changes in the next weeks and months. the former ambassador of russia around director of the institute international studies at stanford and international affair analyst michael mcfauls, a man who feared after a certain helsinki pretty conference he might be tracked back to russia thanks to nothing donald trump you know vladimir putin very well. i know you also know the foreign minister laugh raufb. we've talked about it all morning, the past couple weeks. i got people asking me why would russia go in? it doesn't seem to make sense. i must say, it does not make economic sense, it does not make sense if he wants to keep nato and the united states off his doorstep. you can explain, mr. ambassador,
why that is in 12k3w4r i can try. my last call in the washington post was titled putin does not think like us, joe. the point is that he doesn't think in those cost benefit analysis that you just talked about. he's not worried about the price share of the stockmarket, what will happen next week. he is thinking in much longer terms. he wants to know where he is in the russian history books, 20, 30, 50 years from now. he thinks one of the mixes is to right the wrongs of the post-cold war order. he thinks we took advantage when russia was weak. secondly, he wants to unite the slavic nation, somebody wrote it for him. he put his name on it, which explains why he believes ukraine is not a country, not a real country, russian and ukrainians are a part of one nation.
he thinks its his mission to reunite the slavic nations, therefore, worrying about the economy in the next weeks or months is not drives his thinking. >> that said, though, he certainly understands the united states has a gdp and economy ten times of russia, he understands when you put the eu together with the united states, we have $40 trillion gdp. they have $2 trillion. he understands the united states military spends about ten times as much as the russian military, even though they've made some advances in the past five, ten years. we understand this to be true. he knows better than most what happened when 300 mercenaries tried to cross and it ended badly for all of them in about five minutes. does he, i guess my question is, is he so isolated from facts?
are people so afraid to deliver that information to him that he can make this decision without understanding that he is crossing a country, we left afghanistan because we decided to leave afghanistan. does he understand exactly what he's getting into here? >> it's a great question. i don't know, he is not conferring with me. she not conferring with anybody else. remember, he's been the president of russia for two decades, now, think about that. my about that, a president in power 22 years, they wouldn't be listening to tear sea, minister of defense, in the case of russia. he thinks he knows it all. he did that when i used to work as a u.s. ambassador sitting with him. football two, you know, dollars and currencies and gdp, all those numbers which are one
measure of power, those are not the numbers invade countries and annex countries. we tend to pause we're americans, we tend to focus on the economy as one measure of power. on other measures of power, russia still has a lot of capacity. you look at their armed forces, it's the largest armed forces in europe today. it's modernize what he has spent. nuclear weapons, russia is the only super power in the world except for us. look at idea logical power, information and disinformation. he spends billions on that piece. i think we are behind them in spending in those kind of things. one last thing, the i'm trying to get nigh putin's mind, from his perspective, he has taken some risky chen e ventures over the last several years, so he's winning. he invaded crimea and annexed them. and he invaded and used his air
force to prop up is dictator in syria, his dictator is still in power. he meddled and intervened in our elections in 2016, didn't suffer many consequences. he even tried to kill somebody in salisbury in 2018 in the united kingdom. we said, don't do that anymore, mr. putin. from his perspective, he doesn't have as much power as united states and china. he has shown a capacity and a will to use that power, from his intertexttive, she sac u chalking up a lot of wins. i think if he goes into you ceo inthis time. it will be devastating for the russian economy. the ukrainians will fight. that's not his perspective. >> mr. ambassador, sir isaac son. for years, the policy is to stay closer to russia and china thanry a to each other.
but this situation where we are struggling against china, now have this showdown with russia seems to have driven russia and china closer together with china off even to buy energy from russia with putin and president xi meaning, how worried are you that we are going to see what seems to be an unholy reliance be restored? >> i am very worried about it. i just wrote a whole book about it. i look forward to talk talk about it. i think it is a brand-new moment. you are exactly right about the 20th century, i think you are paraphrasing henry kissinger there, where we had a plan to peel away the chinese communists. we did very effectively. the 21st century is difficult. there were some in the biden administration that thought we could peel russia away. i thought that was naive a year ago. i think we are seeing the
consequences of its day. the 21st century, those two countries, as long as putin is if power and xi jinping is in power will be closer to each other than the united states. they're two autocracys. we're a democracy. that i think is the new moment we are in today. it's one big difference, by the way, between what feels like we're on the verge of war this time vis-a-vis ukraine. pack in 2014, the chinese stood on the side lines at the u.s. putin was disappointed in that i will be surprised this time you see beijing being much more supportive. >> michael mcfall, thank you for being with us. we appreciate your insights. hope you come back. earlier this week, i talked to donny deutsche and asked the legendary brand master for his
thoughts on which political brands were up from week and which were down. donny named donald trump as his down brand. here's why. at the start of the week his accounting firm said he was cut ties with the organization. nearly a decade of financial statements could not be believed or trusted. on the same day, conservative media was reeling from john durham, let me underline wildly misrepresented the facts. special counselor durham had to distance himself from the frenzy saying what the other outlets made of his documents was not his fault. oh, really, you write pleadings like that, you throw the bait out there and say it's not your fault? why don't you get somebody other than a third grader to write your pleadings next time.
keep them clear. the next day, former president trump issued a statement with new claims about his wealth those claims, of course, didn't line up with what he previously reported. january 6th committee came out and suspended a half doesn't beam to use alternative electors. one of the people's opinions publicly said that donald trump knew all about the plan. open wednesday, the national archives sent donald trump a letter saying that baring any court ruling he would hand over the white house visitor logs despite his protests. yesterday, a new york judge ruled trump and his two eldest children would have to appear for deposition. also a new poll showing most republicans side with former vice president mike pence and believe he could not have stopped the election certification january 6th
regardless of what the former president had to say. jonathan karl's recent book "the deal." people have been bletlessly talking about donald trump going to jail, losing lawsuits, hammered for five years. you've heard it, i've heard it so much so you hear people say this is the time trump gets caught i don't know about you, but i tune out. xhrngs i've heard this before. i will not be charlie brown with a football. but i must sigh over the past 22-to-the weeks, past month, there has been an accumulation of bad news, one after another were i donald trump, a guy that's gotten away with everything his entire life, i would be concerned. it seems these challenges, legal challenges especially are really mounting up. what's your take?
>> it does seem things are closing in on him. this latest judge's order in new york, he has to give a jordan deposition. john, jr. and ivanka have to give a sworn deposition in 21 days. he has given countless sworn depositions. even in this case, erin trump took the fifth amendment 500 times. i assume trump and his two oldest thirn will do the same thing when they come to testify. but look, this is one of many things. the biggest the czars saying they were dropping the trump organization and donald trump as a client and most significantly could stand by ten years of financial statements because the information provided bety trump organization means that those until reports can no longer be seen as reliable. keep in mind, you have two
investigations in new york that we know hoff, the man hat tap da, the fulton county da investigation in georgia, which is clearly moving along. have you the attorney general in washington, d.c. reopening an investigation and all the activity around the january 6th committee. not to mention whether or not there will be anything coming out of the justice department. yes, i get the sense things are escalating, but we have had this feeling before. >> jonathan le mere. you and i have could have had the term presidency, heard the anticipation and excitement about the durham report. this was financial to prove the president right, that he thought it was a real political game-changer. as much as concerned media latched onto it, at least briefly, in the last few days, there teams e seems like there
is not much "there" there. give us your perspective how much this must be a diso'palmetto to trump and his allies. >> we'll see. durham is a serious prosecutor. he has already pointed out some clear issues with aspects of the russia investigation. but it'sing in like what trump is claiming. he actually has a new statement out saying that durham has demonstrated that hillary clinton broke into the white house. i don't know what he's talking about. but trump has been manifestly upset with this segs. it was a big point of contention with his relationship with bill barr in 2020, constantly furious that barr wasn't you know releasing the dur ma'am investigation, something that would theoretically help him
out. yeah, it's nothing like what he has said. nothing that we have seen in anything durham has done, including this filing over the weekend says anything about spying oon donald trump or trump tower or the white house. nothing remotely what he says. because the full results aren't out there, he can kind of pump it up and pretend it's something it's not. >> can you give us insight on durham? he is a respected prosecutor for some time. he has now gone three years longer investigating the investigator than the underlying investigation, itself. he has been going at a slow pace. i said if he had been going at a fast clip, had a lot to do, the i'd be the first to say, keep digging. take as long as it takes. it seems he is dragging his feet. this last pleading was just
pathetic and what was drawn out of it by the trump press was an absolute joke. even one charge of lying to the february february appears to be on the shakiest of grounds e. as a former lawyer, i was sitting there reading it for a day-and-a-half trying to think out what the prosecutor was going to say, by the end, i assume he was yifg given us in terms of the investigation? >> it's a real riddle. as you said, it's been been only methodically for a long time. i think if durham had intended to be playing some kind of role to aid trump here, a political roll. if he was not thinking of being a political prosecutor, he would have done something before the
election. he didn't. it doesn't seem like he is too prone to political influence on either side. the last filing, though, was particularly odd because if he had opinion trying to hide it, he probably couldn't have done much of a better job. there was a side pleading whether or not a lawyer at a conflict of interest he wasn't wave ac banner, now a following comes out it suggests it has been misinterpreted in the press and it wasn't an effort to pull up anything politically. it's so strange. remember when it started he was returning around italy with attorney general barr, which seemed to be chasing a conspiracy theory of the origins of the investigation. he does seem to be chasing down
absolutely everything. but i got to believe that when it finally concludes his work, by the way, we don't know what he will do remember is there going to be a report. there is no suggestion of exactly the end game here is. i prajen despite what happened over the past week, it will be a disappointment to trump and his allies. >> jonathan, it's susan, you don't want to go crazy about a poll finding. i find this quinnipiac intriguing, it shows a majority of republicans believe pence not trump when he could have over13 the count. the reflex has been to trust thump on all things. there are some republicans who think that perhaps trump's hold on the gop is beginning to
weaken and perhaps there is an opening. you have such great sources with the former president. are trump and his folks concerned about this? do they see a weakening of his hold on the republican party? >> well, first, a comment on that poll. it was remarkable to see a majority of republicans disagreeing with donald trump about anything let alone take trump so central to his being over the past year-and-a-half or almost year-and-a-half. but it's totally remarkable that so many people lullty agree that mike pence should have single handedly thrown the election. think about that for a minute. but it's really only one data boivenlet that suggests and again to joe's point about the legal issues, suggest some loss of altitude for donald trump.
i mean there is consider a few things, mitch mcconnell has been in trump's sights since to the days before january 6th. he's waged the campaign to remove mitch mcconnell as a leader in the senate. there is no movement on that whatsoever. there is a stow this morning by my former colleague, a fundraiser at the brakeers hotel, joe not your part of florida. it's only three miles from mar-a-lago. there were 20 fors if in aattendance, three decide during this politico story to attend an event happening with trump at mar-a-lago. the others finding other thupgs do. even though they were right in his back yard. so i think there are some indications that you can, if you
can be a republican, ub can defy donald trump and you can swav. which raises questions what his hold on the part relationship still strong. is? it in sfloeft there are only three republican senators that went there, mitch mcconnell has been openly fighting against him, others as well. are you exactly right, they certainly are paying no political price for that. all right. abc news chief washington correspondent, jonathan karl, thank you for being with us. your book is betrayal. the final fact. coming up, one health center in florida is giving kid who couldn't walk the chance to do just that. and get on with her life.
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. there is one birth defect if left untreated often severely impacts the ability to walk. until recently the treatment was amputation. but one orthopedic institute based in south florida is working to change all that. our correspondent dr. dave campbell introduces us to the team of doctors who are giving these children and their families new hope. >> the first doctor showed me was not his face but his legs, because they were so shocked when they saw it.
dividend didn't know what to do actually. >> it was really a stressful time for me. it was really we didn't know what to expect in the future and i was imagining he will be in a wheelchair for the whole life or getting a prosthetic leg. >> it was a struggle mentally, physically and exhausting because we wanted to do what was best for kendall. >> one out of fine 00 infants are born with a limb reduction defect. it was long believed it was amputation. we met with families across the world with children built with tremendous physical challenges, who sought a different solution. >> when kendall was born she contracted neonatal sepsis. it ate her hip socket and hem al head. she came home from nicu at seven
months old, we started with our journey with specialists in our state to try to figure out with her hip to get her to crawl, walk, do all of those milestones and after seeing a couple specialists and having them tell us that she was tooed a vapsed for them, we then went to the top specialist, where we were given the option of amputation. >> she has really a severe case. she was deformed and shorten. so the options for us would be amputation or treatment at the later age. >> when you first were told that amputation was the only option, what did you think? >> my first reaction was crying. i was crying. but then i know there must be
other options. >> theo, kendall and sasha are all being treated at the pain orthopedic spine institute in west palm beach florida, which has solutions one thought impossible. we met the director who spoke with us about his mission. >> the standard of care for most of these birth defects was to cut off the leg. so as we solveled more problems, more patients will come. today we are getting patients from over 100 countries every single state. so we're getting it globally from everywhere. >> i had my doctor reply just in a cutch him of days. with all the plans for your treatment, so, and then i have started to have peace of my mind. the doctor gave us not only hope but he was so sure of the first consultation what to do and how to do that we 93 knew we would
come here. >> they set you up. we're going to do a super hip. what that entails, i can't tell you right now, because i'm going to go in and i'm going to actually see what's going on inside and then i will know. >> he felt very happy and active child. it's very important. one doctor, it's the general being from treatment here. it allowed us to have almost normal life. >> what are your goals and hopes when you do get older? >> i i hope i can wear shoes and no surgeries for me. >> learning to walk. learning to balance, that he will start a normal life. >> we want the little girl to walk and to be able to do normal children things and doctor payly looked at all of us and said, i will have kendall up and
walking. she is doing what we were told she wouldn't be able to do. >> one of the impacts is to figure out new solutions for children with birth desks. when i look back at these past 35 years, i'm able look parents in the eye and tell them, hey, not only can i save your child's leg, but i can reconstruct it and they're going to end up with close to normal tongues. they're going to run, jump, play, do sports and all of these things. and i can say that from confidence, because i have done it literally hundreds if not thousands of times. >> 18-year-old sean was born with a short femur. his right food foot reaching only to his left knee. now he is live ac life far beyond what anyone imagined. tell me a little bit about procedures and the problem you have and where are you in the process. >> i have had 16 surgeries to lengthen my leg. lengthened it so far 14.5
inches. i need another inch-and-a-half to get my legs fully equal. i've never thought of it as a problem or an issue. i've always tried to keep optimistic. i played sports throughout my life. soccer, basketball, golf, baseball, i was on my high school swim team and golf team. it definitely is a long and hard process. i think in the end it is really wore it's it to still have a leg. >> in light of the extensive list of international patients, the institute expanded to have a europe mean presence. >> we needed a satellite center and we found the right people, that was in warsaw, poland. we have this satellite that is a mini institute like we have here. >> reporter: his international training, specialized skills and vast scope of knowledge has
allowed him to offer life-changing solutions to patients across the world. [ music playing ] . >> dr. dave campbell and the "morning joe" field team with that report. thanks so much. for more information, visit payly institute.org. coming up, a new documentary discovers what could be the more segregated times of the week in america. sunday church services. how one parish is working to overcome social divisions the. we'll have that story when morning joe comes back. we'll have that story when -capsule! -capsule! -capsule! morning joe comes back on prescriptions. capsule took care of my insurance.
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a small rural community in maryland was home to three methodist churches. one black, two white, divide generations earlier over the issue of slavery, but in 1968 as the country faced a turning point. >> those three churches decided to reconcile and to form a new future. there is an important new story that needs to be told. we have a responsibility to make certain that it continues. ♪♪♪ >> a new documentary "finding fellowship" three racially segregated churches came together in the wake of dr. king's assassination in 1968 and have stayed together more than half a century, the documentary producer jason green, reverend al sharpton and walter isaac son and susan paige as well, wasn't it dr. king who
said the most segregated hour of the week is sunday morning in churches across america, right? >> absolutely right, good to be with you. dr. king said that back in the mid-1960s, unfortunately, that still happens to be true today. >> you know, this is such a great story. i think it will be an inspirational story for people. i spoke as to my brother, he was in atlanta, when things gotti vicive over the past couple years, he is from a predominantly white church. they started having coffee, fellowship with people from a traditionally mark church, now it's green i got to tell you, it's remarkable what just you know 20, 30, 40, people getting together during the week does. talk about, though, how it started in this community because what an incredible story? >> joe, i think are you spot-on
to talk about the importance of proximity and the power of people coming boeing. this story started for me with a conversation with my 95-year-old grandmother. i had spent a long time not listening to my grandmother's stories. then i acknowledge her in the hospital room, it was a forcing event, frankly to take stock and heed and listen to her stories. she told me the story of how three racially segregated churches in one of america's most divided times decided to put you know those divisions together and frankly face their history and get proximate as you talked about and really provide the foundation for this beautiful story. i was hearing it at a time when we are still here today hearing about hour americans are divided, politically, socially, economically. here is a story from our most
divided times that can shed light on today and hopefully present a pathway for how we move forward together. >> jason, al sharpton, what was interesting to me as i read about the documentary is how your great, great grandfather had to wrestle if the churches came together does the black church lose its black church identity and leadership? and is the challenge how we must find ways to come together and intersect but at the same time not lose our authenticity? isn't that a part of the challenge? >> i think that's so critical. a lot of time when people talk about this film, they talk exclusively about the merger, but it's so important to talk about what is preserved through intention, throughest, through perseverance and so a part of what this story is intended to symbolize is that fear that often keeps us from coming
together because for fear of losing our heritage, hour istory, our story this says that we have the capacity to come together and build something new but also pre serve those components that make us unique, that celebrate our heritage and our history in particular, here churches merged and they formed a new fourth church, but we're still preserving that african american church building. this story is intended to shine a light on the fact that we're trying to save this physical space because as you say it's so important that you save the physical spaces, the things that remind us who we are. >> mr. green, congratulations on a wonderful documentary. i'm down here in new orleans, and there's right near me a first grace united methodist church with the same story of pastor sean england, pulled together a declining white church and a black church that was struggling and made it into one congregation. it has been at the core of a lot
of the reconciliation here in new orleans. do you think your documentary in some ways can help spur a movement with these type of mergers or at least, as joe said about his brother, combine fellowships? >> i think what you're talking about is examples of the possible. and those are critical. dr. king said back in 1967, he asked this prophetic question, where do we go from here? chaos or community? and i think we've seen a lot of examples of chaos. and to your point, what we need more of, these examples of the possibilities, examples of community, to demonstrate to people that it is possible. we are a people that need stories. we are a people that need to see it, to believe that it can happen, and here again in these divided moments we're showing stories of the power of a diverse people coming together with intention and purpose. and i think that people are
looking and are hungry for that kind of opportunity to be called, to be part of something bigger, and we're seeing it happen. that's the feedback we're getting from the film is people are watching it, downloading it, streaming it, and they're saying we had this conversation. as joe mentioned, people were getting proximate with diverse congregations, happening outside of religious institutions just about how we can be intentional about building the community we want to see. >> congratulations on this, on telling the story. i worry it's an exception and not the rule when we look at religion in america, and since the time of dr. king we've seen some parts of american society become much more diverse, our colleges, our supreme court, our politics, our workplaces, less so in the world of religion. why has it been so hard to get diversity on sunday morning? >> it's a really interesting
question, why is diversity challenged in our religious institutions. in many respects this is a film about race, but it's a film really about human dignity, a film about making sure that we see each other as having value, dignity, and worth in all our institutions. specifically on religion, we know these are spaces, you know, derived from the sanctuary where people can feel comfortable, unchallenged with their spiritual guidance and god. and the conversation around bridging division often is one around discomfort. and so the question becomes how can we be comfortable in uncomfortable settings? how can we be really intentional? we see the importance of small churches to provide sanctuary from the challenges and tribulations of the week, but how can they be vehicles of building what dr. king would call the beloved community.
>> thank you so much, being with us, jason. how inspirational. the new documentary, "finding fellowship" is currently streaming on pbs. jason green, thanks so much. we'll be right back. we'll be right back. ♪ what a wonderful world ♪ ♪ ♪ nice suits, you guys blend right in. the world needs you back. i'm retired greg, you know this. people are taking financial advice from memes. [baby spits out milk] i'll get my onesies®. ♪ “baby one more time” by britney spears ♪ e*trade now from morgan stanley.
welcome back to "morning joe." almost 9:00 in washington, d.c. walter, you know, this week has been fascinating. the trump right is sometimes legitimately criticizing the left for always overblowing every filing against donald trump, turning it into a career-ending scandal. once again this week, though, the right became what they hated, taking this indecipherable pleading and turning it into a scandal
extraordinaire. it just wasn't there. >> i go down to the gym, you see how physically fit i am, and i'll watch different networks, you name them all, fox and the other networks, and they're saying how durham has shown that hillary clinton came into the white house and broke into servers and got things. and then of course different networks say different things. it's weird because even when i talk to people down here, they have totally different views. jason green's church is called fairhaven, from the bible as you know where the apostle paul is getting into a storm and he finds a fair haven where they all come together. we don't have that now. we don't have the fair havens where everybody gets together with a common set of information. >> exactly, except on "morning joe," susan page. susan, final thoughts. >> last night a poll by "usa
today" showed 1,000 health care worker workers were heading into year three of this pandemic. we asked them how they thought the pandemic was going, how they think people have handled it and the impact of their own lives, would they have chosen this career again. >> rev, final thoughts. >> i'm thinking about how we get rid of this no-knock warrant after doing the funeral yesterday for this young man in minneapolis. i'll have ben crump on this weekend on "politics nation" to talk about no-knock law as well as george zimmerman's lawsuit against trayvon martin's parents has been thrown out as well as the federal civil rights trials of both the arbery case and the case of george floyd. so a lot to talk about this weekend. >> a lot. can't wait. thanks for watching this week. thank you, as always, for your patience. chris jansing picks up the coverage