tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC April 5, 2022 12:00am-1:00am PDT
-- mean trump will be back on the platform? and on that, possibly nightmare inducing no, i will wish you a good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late with us. i will see you at the end of tomorrow. tonight on all in, this guy is brutal and what's happening is outrageous. the world sees whatever treating russian army left behind. >> that is a war crime. russia should be punished for this. >> tonight, the u.s. assessment of the latest russian offense and what we know about what happened in bucha. >> another strongman chokes off democracy -- >> why were we on russia's side? i am totally confused. >> criminal referrals for navarro and scavino move
forward. and -- necessary for justice? plus, today's big vote on ketanji brown-jackson for the supreme court and meet the new applicant or leader of the house, republican -- >> no more of this vanilla milk toast -- >> all in starts right now. >> good evening from new york. i'm chris a. it is only two days since the ukrainian military was able to retake the kyiv suburb of bucha after the russians retreated and the name of that town is now already infamous and synonymous with war crimes. there is no way to tell the story without showing you visual evidence of what is happening and has happened on the ground in bucha, so this is a warning, you will see disturbing images in this reports. russian troops moved through the town on their way to apparently try to capture kyiv.
they were met with resistance and they just stayed in bucha four weeks. -- the images of the atrocities appear to have -- started coming out immediately after ukrainian troops moved back into the area on saturday. ukrainian defense ministry released this video, showing the bodies of what they say are civilians lying in the street. the associated straits took these photos, at least nine people in civilian clothes, who appear to have been killed at close range. at least two had their hands tied behind their backs. the mayor of bucha that residence -- you can see what appears to be a 35-foot-long trench near a church in the satellite photo from -- a member of the ukrainian parliament from bucha recorded this video by the mass graves. >> hello to everybody. my name -- i'm a member of the parliament from bucha, which is a town near kyiv. you see behind me the grave for more than 20 people, local citizens who are killed by russian troops here. and that is one of the graves. there are more here. and that is a local church of bucha. that is an evidence, one of
many evidence is of the bucha massacre. that is a war crime and russia should be punished for this. -- when you see russia -- remember this. >> sky news reporter debra haines has been an invaluable source for reporting on the ground inside ukraine. in her latest reporting, she visited bucha in the wake of russia's retreat and saw the horrors firsthand. >> the broken body of a woman, evidence of the terror that swept through this town and others north of the capitol, before russian forces suddenly pulled back. the brother of kyiv's mayor documented what he saw. >> this is not a operation. this is civilians who have been shot in the head with hands tied behind their head. this is genocide of the ukrainian population. >> ukraine says how dreads of bodies have been found, some hastily buried. they have accused russia of being worse than the islamic state. moscow denied responsibility. >> russia has denied
responsibility for these killings, claiming while the town was controlled by the russian military forces, not a single local resident has suffered from any violent action. that is quite a categorical denial. the video from bucha are a hoax, a staged production, they say. the un security council convened to discuss a provocation -- the new york times analyzed satellite photos of abuja from -- and they found evidence that at least 11 bodies seen in those videos, the one that were recorded by the ukrainian soldiers as they went in, had been on the streets in the satellite videos a since march 11th. russian forces were occupied bucha until the retreat on march 30th. that means those bodies of dead ukrainians, town residents of bucha, where in the streets as the russian controlled it for
19 days. earlier today, ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy visited -- a president echoed by president joe biden. >> i got criticized for calling putin a war criminal. well, the truth of the matter -- he is a war criminal. we have to gather the information. we have to continue to provide ukraine with the weapons they need to continue to fight. and we have to get all the details. to have a war crime trial. this guy is brutal. and what is happening in bucha it's outrageous and everyone has seen it. i think it is a war crime. i am seeking more sanctions,
yes. >> [inaudible] >> he should be held accountable. >> for those who watched russia 's brutal tactics in chechnya and syria over a span of several years, it is a reminder of the depravity of their tactics in those wars. the nature of putin's regime and that battlefield was evident in both of those venues. as horrible as these atrocities are, they are not in that respect surprising. which is why there is just no moral excuse for the odious apologetic's we have heard from the american right. not just talking about we need negotiation, there is a settlement, all of which i think is perfectly legitimate to argue for. it is the sort of visceral siding with putin, the admiration of him, including what's donald trump said about putin just days before the invasion. >> i went in yesterday and there was a television screen and i said, this is genius. putin declares a big portion of the ukraine, putin declares it at independent.
oh, that's wonderful! so, putin is now saying, it's independent, a large section of ukraine. i said, how smart is that? >> so smart? genius. that is the leader of the republican party calling putin genius as he prepares to commit war crimes. and those bodies on the streets, those ones in the mass graves, that is what that genius looks like in reality. it looks like bodies on the side of the road, hands tied behind their back and bullets in their head. and of course, whatever donald trump said will get blasted out by the loudest mouthpiece on trump tv. >> what is going on between
ukraine and russia -- [inaudible] why should i root for russia? which i am. [inaudible] what is this really about? why do i hate putin so much? has putin ever called me a racist? is he trying to get me fired for disagreeing with him? has he shipped every middle class jobs in my town to russia? >> yes. why would anyone have any -- it's a great rhetorical question. how do you stop to the bodies of syrians like corn wood for years -- let me mayor putin showed us exactly what kind of leader he was years ago, what his military was capable of. it is way too late to act
surprise now. alexander vindman is a retired colonel who served as director for military affairs -- michael newton is a professor at -- law school. he is -- and they both join me now. lieutenant colonel, let me ask you first about your reaction to this, again, there is a pattern here. there is a history here. it is nonetheless, those images, they came out on bhutan saturday, i think you found these horrifying and shocking. >> it is absolutely horrifying and this is why it should have been such a greater quest to try y
now, there are two things going on here. one is that for the first time the opposition united against him, six parties, but part of that calculation backfired because part of that big opposition was the -- a far-right party trying to be more central. and voters of -- defected to or bonds party or even the really hard rights, fascist party. this is what happens when you have polarization and there is no center. so, they lost votes on that and then there is the war. he was very smart, one could say, in saying, we are going to be about hungarian interests and trying to help the struggling -- that played well because you are on the border and it was very unsettling. but that said, the system has a vault over ten years, since 2010, 12 years, so that it is very difficult for the opposition to win. and one reason is media. he has domesticated the media to an extent where it is very hard for the opposition to get
equal time. and in fact, european election security agency sent a record number of monitors and he included there wasn't a level playing field because the media didn't have the same access. and then, there is gerrymandering and other election trickery to make more districts favorable to his party, things that are familiar to people who follow the gop. and all of this pays off and so, the results were similar to 2018 and similar to 2014. so, he has built the system which gives him, not guaranteed success, but makes it difficult for others to prevail. >> he has been -- it was interesting, zelenskyy called him out for the stance he has taken, which has been
more tepid towards ukraine then certainly the polish -- the nation of poland, which is right there across the border, which also has a right wing government, we should note. they have been much more on ukraine side, opposed to russian aggression. hungary has taken a much more kind of neutral stance, or at least has hedged its bets a bit. and he has been a real sort of ally of putin for years. there is a connection there. >> oh, totally. after the annexation of crimea, he refused -- he was very against using sanctions and right before the war started, he declared that 2021 have been the best year ever for hungarian russian relations. and he was against putting any kind of sanctions on russian energy because hungary is very dependent on that. but that too, he played to his advantage with voters because he said, we don't want to get involved in this because gas and oil prices will go up and voters like that, apparently. >> i want to just play some of the praise that comes from the right. at one point, cpac was saying they're going to go to budapest to celebrate. let's hear thoughts on what --
this is our model. >> people are all over him. there -- i'm a huge admirers of these individuals because that i think they have done a tremendous job. >> he has done a tremendous job in so many different ways. highly respected all over europe, probably like me, a little bit controversial, but that's okay. you are doing a good job and you have kept your country safe. >> he thinks families are more important than banks. he believes countries need borders. for saying these things out loud, he has been vilified. >> the sort of celebration of him strikes me as chilling because he really has kind of figured out ways to use the rules of the game, to rig democracy, so that it is more -- >> absolutely. and the gop lawmakers, are falling over themselves to congratulate him. they are all like kids at a toy store saying, i want that! i want an autocracy. and that is of course what they are pretty -- pursuing. then, there ideologues that are all over his anti-lgbtq
policies, his pro family policies. and what they never mention, tucker carlson says he's depending white christians and he is the defender of tradition, but they don't mention that 300 churches have been closed in hungary because the heads of those charges were not aligned with orban. so, he is prevailing right now because he is the non-putin. he is not anti putin, but he is the non-putin. he is the tolerable autocrat. that is working in this atmosphere that putin is doing warcrimes and everything. he seems okay. >> thank you so much for your time tonight. >> coming up, what does it mean the january six committee is signaling -- there may be no criminal -- after this. warcrimes and everything. he seems okay.
of representatives to vote next week whether to hold to trump or aides in contempt. this after the house rules committee ruled to advance content resolutions. over their refusal to operate in the investigation. as for the ringleader, after ruling which the judge said that donald trump likely committed crimes, the questions of whether there will be a criminal referral from the january six committee for the ex president, and legal political camera emigration so gain bald. there are signs that the committee may not be ready take that step. committee member congresswoman zoloft greene told the court that referral doesn't mean anything. that has no legal weight whatsoever. and we know that since last week's opinions, it doesn't
need to make sense. she joins me now. i want to ask if you agree broadly with your colleagues reading on the situation. >> chris, thanks finding the back. i would say that i don't agree with what's some of my colleagues have said about this. and i think it's a lot more important to do what's right than it is the right by the political ramifications. our purpose is legislative and oversight but in the course of an resignation we find that criminal activity has occurred, then we have a responsibility for the department of justice. even if they already know. even if other judges on circumstances have made that determination, i think it's within the responsibility of our committee that we should find that evidence and that we do refer it.
>> anna read this quote because i think i've seen some analysis in both directions. and it sounds like we are saying is, if the marriage determined, not then you should say. this was quoted in the peace and political, a former referral could backfire. the justice department starting decision on the influence by political pressure. that's how this might look. a referral could make it harder for the department to prosecute. what do you think about that? >> i think the purpose of this committee is to lay out the facts. and if within those facts we find evidence that criminal acts and crimes occurred, i think have to include that report. i think around for that to the department of justice because they're the ones that have to deal with crimes. >> two big issues coming up, there's a vote on a virus convenient, and whether the justice department was ahead on those charges. but it's also the question of whether there will be prime time televised hearings. i wonder if you can give us a sense of other committee members thinking is on the? >> chris, i think is an important issue. it's fundamental to our democracy and protecting our institutions and government. i think it's important that every american opportunity to hear the work of this committee. the facts that we've uncovered
's, i would like to lay the sign away that reaches the most people possible. so that your hearings will be televised. exact timing on schedule something that we are working on as we continue to interview illnesses. but our goal is for this information to reach every american. >> what are the stakes? what do you view, but would be the success for you in this investigation? when it's all said and done, how are you defining success as a lawmaker and as a citizen? >> i want to know the facts. and i think the committee is doing a very intensive investigation following a lot of different paths to reach the truth about what happened on january six. and the purpose of the committee is to provide recommendations to prevent something like this from
happening in the future. so i think that the work of filling out the facts is the first step, but that is legislative work about or recommendations we can make, while laws to protect? our futures are important as well. so i think both of those ornaments are key to the success of this committee. >> i'm being only slightly tongue-in-cheek here, but electing donald trump president a gun would be very dangerous and go a long way towards possibly reproducing the conditions of happen again. it seems like there's no getting around that fundamental fact. whatever structural factors or whatever oversight there was on the day and why police weren't more prepared, fundamentally the most powerful person in the country of the world was contentious overeating american democracy and this was the result. >> i grew that sentiment, but that's up to the voters. i want to lay out these facts for them to understand. would disrupted the electoral count and resulted in violence that led to death and destruction on property, if people can watch that and then choose to vote for him or someone initiated value in the future, i think that's
concerning as well. >> there's also the question of the republican party more broadly, which will seem to manage to wriggle out from the taint of this awful thing that the leader of the party did and we do again in a heartbeat, and is currently plotting. >> certainly, there are those in the republican party who have embrace this. and they continue to double down, the very clear. others about a lot of courage, like liz cheney, and adam kinzinger, those that did vote on the second impeachment. i think as an american, out
hope there are more people in the republican party serving in office today who could look at the facts of what happened and uphold their constitution to implement our laws, and not undermine them. >> i think there will be a moment to focus a beam of attention during these hearings, if and when they happen. we look for seeing how that plays out. congressman elaine, thank you so much. >> still to come, sarah palin is back and running for congress. how the one-time candidate for vp walked, so the party could run. plus, ketanji brown jackson finds republican support in the senate! we'll tell you that tylenol to means for a confirmation vote, after this. i'm jonathan lawson here to tell you about life insurance
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hold a floor vote to get the brown-jackson nomination out of committee. and, guess what. three republicans actually join that vote. somewhat of a surprising number. mitt romney, susan collins, and we saw murkowski. it was a good sign for the final passage vote, we expected to be 53 votes. and that's a, today, south carolina senator admitted that if republicans control the senate, ketanji brown jackson's nomination would've never even gotten a vote. >> if we get back the senate, and we are in charge of this body, we will talk to our colleagues on the other side, but if we were in charge, she
would not be before this committee. you would've had somebody more moderate than this. >> mary garland is very moderate, even and get a hearing either. what he's saying, they're just so people realize, is the choir but out loud. they won't even hold a hearing for a democratic presidents nominee. a stark moment for the republican party has become accustomed to pulling all minors of stunts to maintain -- who's on it with jardiance? we're 25 million prescriptions strong. we're managing type 2 diabetes... ...and heart risk. we're working up a sweat before coffee. and saying, “no thanks...” ...to a boston cream. jardiance is a once-daily pill that can reduce the risk of cardiovascular death for adults who also have known heart disease. so, it could help save your life
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and field vice presidential candidate sarah palin. last night, she prowess on surprisingly got donald trump's complete endorsement, feels like the republican party has come full circle. back in 2008, the john mccain campaign scrambling to find a running name. they lunged on surveillance. little known even by the pen -- she was a fugitive first, until she became more known -- we'll discover the fuels a candidate seemingly entirely disinterested in the realities of governing. she likes basic knowledge of a foreign policy, we won how washington functioned. but, she made up with it with right-wing rhetoric, and thinking about tone toward spark obama. the republican base love the,
you will feel and had moments like this one with katie hurt. >> when it comes to establishing your world view, i was curious, what's papers and magazines did you regularly read before you were in this disdain for? >> average most of them with a great appreciation for the press, for the media. >> but what specifically are you i'm curious? >> all of them, any of them that have been in front of me over all these years. >> as my next guest knows, the fact that bait line was obviously unfit for all of this -- she made the right people angry. she started larger crowds and rallies that looked a lot like the ones trump would hold years later. after losing, pain lynn resigned before it almost up. she focused full-time on posting on social media, and the reality show is she used to reach her base outside of traditional news outlets. a tactic that help donald trump
win the presidency in 2016. the palin model filled as it was, was a proud lack of political knowledge mixed with attention antics, it said the mold for today's republicans. madison cawthorn, ted cruz, not 15 years later after getting the john doe, palin is back trying to make a run to join them she's already starting the addition process. >> we need people who have cojones. we need people like donald trump was nothing to lose. like me we're gonna think loose. none of this will see stuff that's been going on. >> there's a reporter from new york times who a sizzling from sarah palin and donald trump and his new book, insurgency. and there are a lot of similarities in a straight line from palin to trump. you do wonder, it's one of these, can you go home again kind of moments, whether the shifting of politics and to the direction of trump and matt
gates, and those figures means it's easier for her? and whether this is a natural fit, or maybe it's hard to pull off? >> well, there was nothing i wondered when i was reporting this week, that was sarah palin the canary in the coal mine? or was she an anomaly. and it turns out, she's not an anomaly. sarah palin is the republican party. i think that you don't need to go very far back into republican party history to understand why she clicks with the voters. he has always been somebody who has been seen as one of you. when she was in alaska, she clicked with voters because people saw themselves in her. she was a mom, she had five kids, she talked like them, she did have a lot of elitist areas about her, and really, that's what overlooking voters saw in donald trump. i think that what happened to her is another story as she
became the 20 -- the 2008's vice presidential nominee, she lost her way a bit. but, she is now back on stage, and i think that she is somebody who needs to be taken very seriously as a contender for this congressional see. >> but there's some distinctions there, what's interesting about her is -- she was not faking it as governor of alaska. she was from where she was from, she had worked her way through the local office. donald trump was a multimillionaire who never set foot outside the new york. so it's interesting as, surveilling on donald trump or tapping into the same thing, but it wasn't just, you can track it up to the lack of pretension or folksiness, particularly now she's sitting there and giving that interview and a house who sitting room is larger than the block i live on an brooklyn. and you document this here, there's something going on. journalist covering those rallies kept documenting the vitriol that was our thing from a crowd. some of it's so ugly, the secret service that look into one incident as a precaution.
for sacramento people shouting obama bin laden, treason, off of this had. now we have this two minute hate that happens in the trump rally, where they all jeer. and hitting the right people, and being hated by the right people seems to be the defining thing she tapped into that has become so definitional for a lot of the republican party. >> that's exactly right, chris. and that was her appeal in alaska. even far back as 2004, when she
was not quite governor yet, i'm not a major figure, she clicked with people because somebody called her and her fellow denizen's of the valley, valley trash. it was an early version of the deplorables. and she wore that as a badge of honor. not as something like, how dare you say this about me? they appropriated. and they took this as a badge of honor. and i worked for them just like it did with trump supporters because they felt as if the mainstream republican party was looking down on them and not representing them. and the house would ultimately trump's and. trumpism is not an ideology, there are no fixed policies, it is about making people believe that a set of elites look down on them. it's very populist, as you know,
and that is what's she ultimately tapped into. and has been very good over since then i had perpetuating. >> it's interesting because she loves politics. she did the reverse donald trump. trump is a reality star, he is a celebrity first, and is able to convert that into a political campaign. and i think that allowed him to pull this thing off and is very hard to pull off, very hard to replicate, actually. palin won the opposite way. she became a celebrity through politics. she then monetize that, and you can even serve her term. she, left she made a lot of
money in the reality show. she became the celebrity figure. nationally go back into politics. and i think was interesting is when you compare her to gates, cawthorn, marjorie taylor greene, these are people getting elected and super safe seats. in deep red seats where they win a primary, and then they run. alaska is a more complicated. it's a statewide election, it's a complicated system. it's interesting best-case of how feasible this model is. >> well, it's also an incredibly important seat. one of the things that most people don't appreciate is that this is a long congressional seats. their only handful of states and representatives. that seat is more powerful than the senators. they're more powerful than lisa,
then dan sullivan. that's a big deal. so, i think they're going to be a lot of guns out for her and she will have to look out. i don't know what it ultimately ends up happening in this race, but she has come to this moment understanding what trumpism is, and a lot of ways, better than donald trump did. let's not forget that if trump dona >> that's "allld t rump did let's not forget thain" on this monday night. ali velshi has the rachel maddow show. >> i'm joining you from the ukranian city of lviv tonight. about 300 miles from here in the city of bucha it snowed yesterday, this was a ukrainian man and woman standing with a soldier inwo bucha yesterday, discovering a site of a mass grave asdi the flurries fell around them. they embraced each other while they wept. here is something about these image, these look on their face how the site of that mass grave knocked the wind out of them so hard, that they had to sit on the ground. it encapsulates the global
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