it is pathetic! i have had enough. >> have y'all had enough? i have had enough. we only need four more senators. for more. i said 11 -- the senator said we only need for more. that will negate manchin and sinema and we'll get gun reform passed, police reform passed, the things we want, passed. that's it, that is tonight's the reidout, all in with chris azar's now. >> tonight on all in -- >> i am sick and tired. i am sick and tired. >> the president announces a visit to texas, as we learn the names and see the faces of the children and adults shot and killed at an elementary school. >> something has to be done. this cannot happen again. >> in a high-profile protest in the face of an action -- >> this shooting, right, now is --

you are doing nothing. >> tonight, as the nra heads to texas, the uniquely american crisis of guns in this country. a former firearms executive on what he calls his battle against the industry that radicalized america. and david hogg on the possibility for progress and what we are still learning -- a community in mourning. win all in starts right now. good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes. we are all in this country in a state of mourning for the 19 elementary school children and two teachers massacred in uvalde, texas yesterday. and there is a feeling of palpable overwhelming rage and frustration, a feeling that i share. and watching this perverse and particular ritual, which is what it is, play out, in the aftermath of a preventable tragedy like this one, hoping that some tragedy, like this one or the next one or maybe the one after that will be the thing --

the thing that finally cracks the resistance of the gun lobby in the republican party. but we actually have evidence that the opposite is true. listen to this. 18 of the 19 study found that, after high-profile mass shootings, like the one in uvalde, not only do legislators and governments failed to pass gun safety legislation. but in republican states they actually loosen the gun laws. quote, the annual number of laws that loosen gun restrictions doubles in the year following a mass shooting in states with republican controlled legislatures. we find no significant effect of mass shootings on laws and acted when there is a democrat -controlled legislature. and nor do we find a significant effect of mass shootings on the enactment of laws that tighten gun restrictions. we have a perfectly good example of this in recent memory. while i have been doing the show, right? we just saw it. it was less than two years ago when the horrific el paso shooting happened, where a white nationalist, citing

racist conspiracy theories, went to an area where he knew a lot of latino folks would be and he shot and killed 23 people at a texas walmart. and he injured 23 more. now after that, texas republicans it did what that paper would predict that they did. they passed a number of new laws making guns more accessible, loosening protection on guns, including legislation that allows texans to carry a handgun without a license and one that would order the state to ignore federal gun control laws. and the republican governor, greg abbott, signed the legislation into law, flanked by members of the national rifle association. that is the picture right there of him signing it. so, this is the playbook for republicans. and their donors and the gun lobby. and to be honest, it's supported by many, many rank and file conservatives and gun enthusiastic, who support this view. it is not a tiny group of people.

the idea -- and it was a fringe idea, i think, when it first started -- but it has now taken over the movement. you make it easier to get guns, you want there to be more guns and more access to guns in the wake of a mass shooting. that's the idea. that, in turn, does lead to more gun violence and wore guns. and more guns, and more gun violence, which also leads to more guns. we have seen it play out once in texas in 2018. i think that that should be the status quo expectation. the posture that people should have for understanding this -- given the study that we saw given the experience in texas in 2018, that is what they are ramping up to do in the state of texas. again, it's because the nra is coming to town, actually. the association is holding tanya leadership form in houston, texas this weekend. that is just a few hundred miles away from where 19 children and two teachers were murdered. merged with the very weapons of war that the nra is there to

celebrate. and once they are fighting to restrict, the ones that they think more people should have. two texas republicans -- congressman dan crenshaw and senator john cornyn -- are no longer appearing at the event, after initially signing on. cornyn says that it does not have to do with uvalde but that it is rather scheduling conflict. crenshaw says he will be in ukraine. but texas senator ted cruz and governor greg abbott are, as of now, planning on speaking at the event, as his ex president donald trump, who is of course the conventions headliner. incidentally, we should note that the website for the event notes, for the u.s. secret service, firearms, and firearm accessories will not be permitted in the general assembly hall. that is odd. i mean, i get it. regulations, you don't want the president to be shot by some random person. but it just is the case -- i am not making this up -- that the nra's view is that the addition of guns to any given context makes that context safer.

they keep telling us that more guns make it safer. so why does that not apply their? you would think that they would want more good guys with guns, to stop a gathering of the guns, and everyone in that room should be armed according to their logic. take any situation, any where and add guns to it and things will get better. that's the position of the nra. it's the position of many republicans. in a perverse kind of déjà vu, this kind exact scenario happened once before. because, again, this is a ritual that we just sort of observe in american life. in april 1902 99, listen two weeks after the columbine high school massacre, when two teenagers shot and killed 12 of their classmates and a teacher, the nra held a previously scheduled convention in denver, colorado, ten days later. that's just 15 miles away from the site of the shooting. thousands of protesters took to

the steps of the state capital, including parents whose children had just been slaughtered at school. but that did not stop the nra. they showed up anyway. and we later learned, thanks to these remarkable secret tapes uncovered from that time, that the top and our executive struggled with what to do. but they ultimately decided to move forward and show strength. now texas republicans are setting the stage to do it all over again. we saw during today's press conference, where governor abbott and the states elected leadership and his allies dismissed any calls to action. inevitably, they will push for more deadly weapons in the hands of texans. in fact, they file a brief at the supreme court to strike down new york gun laws, that's how committed they are. they want to tell new yorkers what new yorkers can do with their guns. more guns in schools, morgan's in the hands of teachers. more guns in the room that the governor goes-t. i don't know. we should also note that armed law enforcement officers yesterday where there on the scene and we still don't have

the details here. to be totally honest, it has been a bit hard to get them today. so, we should get a definitive accounting. but they did fail to stop yesterday's shooter. i mean -- there were people with guns around. so, that today, down there in texas, that is a political performance. again, they are politicians. that is what they do. but it is why democratic candidate for governor, beto o'rourke, showed up in interrupted the event. and you will notice that governor abbott is surrounded by his lieutenant governor dan patrick to his right and senator cruz behind him. or work was channeling that sense of frustration. i think a lot of us are feeling that frustration. i want to play a bit of that moment for you. >> the shooting is -- right now and you are doing nothing. >> no! >> this is totally predictable when you choose to -- >> sara, you are out of line! sir, you are out of line!

sir! please leave this auditorium. i can't believe you are a six out of the bit to come here and -- [inaudible] it's people like you, why don't you get out of here! >> [inaudible] >> julián castro is the mayor of san antonio, texas, about 85 miles west uvalde of and of course previously served east of that community, as president obama's secretary of housing and urban development. he joins me now. it is great to have you on the program, though it is under awful circumstances. that got a lot of attention today. i think the idea for beto to do that was to get attention. there were some people mad at him in texas and some people were saying hell yeah, what are

you saying? >> good for him. leadership begins by creating the willingness, the spirit to make change. and for lot of texans, that willingness and spirit is there. but they need a jump start. these guys were up there. the governor, the lieutenant governor, the speaker of the house. they all follow the nra blueprint to deflect and distract. they will talk about mental illness and talk about other things. they will not talk about what makes this uniquely american. they have mental illness and other places. they have video games and other places. when they do not have as easy access to these weapons of war. so, for beto to go and do that, that took guts. because i am sure that he knew that he would get that response from the folks up there. you also do not know what's responsible get in the room of the people who were there watching. but i think that that was a show of leadership on his part. and we need that shock to the

system. he did it in a civil way. he was not on civil. in fact, when he got back from one or two of those elected officials -- they were crafton on becoming, i think. but a lot of texans agree with beto on that and i think he also made this a more high-profile issue in the governor's race. >> that is the question. or there? i think a huge part of this story is the nra, a huge part is a radicalization of the gun subculture. and a huge part is republicans. but a huge part of it is just that there is a lot of people, just voters, who do not want there to be gun restrictions. a lot of them live in texas. and the degree to which this thing that we have that we see, where we make the sacrifice to malik moloch is a deal with the devil. it seems a discomforting number of people are okay with it. and as someone who wants to represent them -- what do you say about what

public opinion really is in texas? >> would i see is that there are a lot of folks, folks who owns gun. people who use them for sporting, at a shooting range. and perhaps they agree not with the entire range of policy solutions on common sense gun reform. but they agree with, for instance, universal background checks or red flag laws. there is a place where we can start. the problem, though, is that you have the nra creating this myth that people are going to take your guns if we go down this path. and that we are going to start a domino effect that means you will lose your gun. they have been successful at that. with they have created is a greater intensity in who shows up to vote. single issue voters on the other side of this -- wet has happened, i think, since columbine, and what happens, unfortunately, each time a newtown or buffalo happens, is that the intensity

is going up on the other side. and so it's unfortunate that it is taking this long. but i think we are on a path to making change. >> that is the thing. one position is, we don't want to interfere with gun owners. but the position of greg abbott, in particular -- and let's talk about the governor -- i think this is also true of ken paxton and others that are statewide officeholders in texas. it's that it is not just that we do not want to interfere. it is that guns are good and more guns are better. the governor tweeted about how back in 2015, texas was losing out to california in the number of guns purchased. and i think ted cruz put bacon on a semi automatic rifle in one of his -- there is -- this is a thing that we want. more people with more guns doing more shooting with more bullets. and doing that as an affirmative vision of the good that we are trying to carry out in texas. and that they are putting into effect at the policy level. it is not just don't tread on

me. it is like, hey, please, please, more guns, please. >> that has exactly been their position. according to them, we should never see any kind of incident like this with -- that shooter went to that walmart knowing full well that folks would be carrying. knowing that there was an armed security guard. this guy went to the school knowing that there is an armed security guard, probably, and that there are people that may well be carrying inside the school. so, that does not deter these folks from going. not only that, i mean, he had a shootout with law enforcement. and that did not stop him. more and more guns has never been the answer. it is a lie, it is a mythology that these guys create. they were there and were trying to create it again and that's what's beto o'rourke did in doing that, and sort of sees the attention and redirected the truth.

in some ways we can actually be constructive in reaching compromise on this. >> i have to give credit to the governor of texas, who has proven to be a multitasker. he was able to attend a fund-raiser for his reelection in east texas, a few hours after those 19 children were murdered in his state. so he is postponing political activity going forward, but you have to walk and chew gum. julián castro, thanks so much. >> thank you, chris. >> when we come back, what we are learning from a community reeling from disaster. the lies taken from uvalde, texas. and later, how we became the most armed nation in the world. and off the charts. i interview a former gun executive who says that the nra it is an extreme tactics to sell more guns. we have much more to come. don't go away. don't go away. your body from overreacting to allergens all season long.

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today about the 19 children and two adults who were murdered at rob elementary school in texas did -- he killed 19 kids and their two kids teachers eva morales and ellie garcia. >> mulvaney young minds for 23 years, telling the new york times she was an avid hiker, and the life of the party. citing law enforcement who told

him, she was seen using her body to shield her kids from the attack. the young lives cut short, offering a glimpse of bright futures, allana torres, who is never fall from a softball fields. -- there annabell guadalupe rodriguez was, killed in the same classroom as her cousin. ten year olds xavier lopez, a fourth grader. jackie cazares, althia ramirez, rojelio torres, and ellie garcia. many showing up to school tuesday, dressed to impress, as part of a school wide foot loosened fancy day. and then there is amerie jo garza, captured here in our last known photo. just hours before the shooting, proud to show off her on a roll certificate. her grandmother telling the daily pieced, she was a shot well trying to call 9-1-1. -- prompting his uncle dependence tribute, writing i still can't

believe this happened my heart is broken, i'm going to masseuse so much, rest in paradise my beautiful angel. >> that was nbc correspondent morgan chesky, i want to turn now to -- who's a national programmer for nbc news.com, who joins me now from uvalde texas. what have you learned? >> well, you know this is always a challenging thing to cover, and there is a lot of protection for the parents out here and rightly so, they're dealing with some very serious heartbreak, and i spent the day today trying to find some family members, talk to some family members, see if they'll allow me to talk to the parents. they're still dealing with the horror of all this, i did talk to an antenna grandfather, and an interesting situation yesterday, there was a mother

and an aunt, and there are still looking for hours after the shooting, there were still looking for the children and their family, and they had just walked up to the school and they were grilling the law enforcement officer about other possibilities. could they be hiding out in the field? could they be lost? could they still be afraid to come out? i talked to the mother that i talked to yesterday, i thought tour this morning to follow up, and she confirmed for me that her daughter had indeed died, i tried to talk to a little bit more but she decided she didn't want to talk anymore. i did speak to the aunt of -- is just to learn about them as children, when their adults says people, so we're not just thinking of them as victims, as shooting victims, but as people. who had whole lives.

elliana sounds like a fantastic child, her father stephen garcia posted a video of her talking about her faith in god, why she loves god. i believe it was there and he told me she had recently had a communion, and that's what that was about. she was a young girl who loved cheerleading, her grandfather told me she like to do splits and tumble, she likes to play basketball which he did with the youth rex hunter i believe, same with a cheerleading, she would spend from sunday to friday with one of her grandfather's. and he told me it was the last time he saw her was sunday, looking at the kind of relax things that they do, go and get some hot cheetos because she liked hot cheetos and they sat around and watched a movie. that sort of thing. her father is a dj, and her

aunt told me that he like to test out new beats and lighting with her, she was sort of his get a pig, she loved to dance. -- she would give her critiques. so this was a really vibrant child that is now gone. >> where you said before, just a little bit of curtain pulling back here, there are people that are public officials that have a responsibility to talk to the press, and we go and hound them. but there is no -- we don't have to hear from anyone that doesn't want to talk to us, and in these kind of situations, whatever is best for the mental health of the folks is the choice that they should choose, and i glad you talked about respecting, that because it's an important ethos for all of us to keep in mind, having been in your situation a number of times myself, as well. suzanne get beau, it reporting for us in uvalde, texas tonight, thank you very much. >> still to come, how we got

here, how he became a country where gun violence is now, for the first time, the leading cause of death for children. that's a true thing right now. the only responses been to make morgan's. how we got here, and the people fighting to do something about, it just ahead. ting to do something about ting to do something about it jusr favorite shade of green. it's actually salem clover. and you can find her right now on upwork.com when the world is your workforce, ect manager, designer, developer, or whomever you may need... tends to fall right into place. find top-rated talent who can start today on upwork.com

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satirical news site the union. it goes like this -- no way to prevent this, says only nation where this regularly happens. in fact, today, the union filled its entire home page with versions of that article that they've published in the wake of various mass shootings. and like all really good satire, it is hitting home because it is true. if you are feeling a sense of visceral anguish, feeling that something is deeply wrong here, you are correct. it is just impurity, statistically true. america is a very violent country. it has been a very violent country for a long time. the rate of gun homicides in the u.s. is higher than any other high income country, nearly six times higher than canada, 14 times higher than israel. when you look at the countries around the world with more gun homicides than the u.s., they are significantly poorer places. el salvador, venezuela, honduras. nearly are it in central and south america. yet all of those places, nearly,

particularly in central america, our places people often free to come to this country. look at that el salvador number, it's astounding. we also just have more guns than anywhere else. i really cannot stress this enough. it is related to our level of violence. we are just literally off the charts. there is no peer -- we have 120 guns per 100 people. that is not true anywhere else in the world. yemen is number two. of course, yemen is a country mired in a brutal, grinding civil war. it is not a country people would consider to be, right now, at these. it comes at a far second place with nearly 53 guns with per 100 people. so, we are just a complete and total global outlier. okay? it is also getting worse. it's been getting worse in recent years. that's the other part of the story. we are always an outlier, always a very violent place. but a new report from the bureau of alcohol, firearms and tobacco shows a surge in the

number of guns manufactured in the u.s., with nearly three times the amount of firearms made the year 2020 than in 2000. there are now more guns manufactured in this country than cars. the wake of the horror we just saw in texas -- i have been thinking a lot about the ways that the government tried to protect children, which is a lot of tory and understandable goal. there are so many regulations around protecting children, regulations that exist in all 50 states, conservative, liberal, or whatever. like, who gets to be a foster parent or who can work in a school. crabs, bottles, and things get recalled all the time. even teddy bears have to go through the consumer product safety commission. all of that, this entire regulatory regime is to protect kids from harm. like, the strap you put your baby in. that has to be tested and gets recalled if it is not working.

we do practically nothing on guns to protect kids from being gunned down. it has a natural result, it is this. look at that chart. that chart says a lot, there is a lot on that chart. the blue line is firearms. and guns are now the leading cause of death for children and young adults in these united states. that is new. okay? for decades, it was car accidents. and if you want to look at this chart, with the glass half full, which i actually do, a little bit of it is that the top line comes down. we have succeeded in pushing down road fatalities, succeeded in making course a 44 children. we have a lot of regulations. those car seats are regulated. at the same time, we've made our society less safe for them from guns. it is also the case that mass shootings, like the ones we see regularly here in the united

states, they just do not happen with anywhere near the same kind of frequency, anywhere else in the world. we are really on an island here. i mean, this was true even seven years ago, when a 2015 study found that despite having 4% of the world's population, the u.s. may 31% of all mass shootings globally between 1966 and 2012. again, that is a previous era that they are studying. part of the reason is that when they do happen in other places -- and they have -- there have been these awful, random events and other places. then, they tend to happen just once. and after a 1996 shooting in scotland, the british government passed legislation banning most handguns. there have been no shootings in the uk and the 26 years since then. some of things have happened since -- in other places, like australia and new zealand. here in the u.s., mass shootings are becoming more and more frequent and deadlier. that is according to a 2019 of

every public mass shooting since 1966. it found that more than half of the shootings that have occurred since 2000 and a third have happened since 2010. we have always been an outlier. we are an exceptional nation. we have always been a place with more violence. we have always been a place with more guns. but it actually has gotten worse in recent years as a sort of cultural pathology has grown up revolving around guns. and it subculture sees guns not just as evil useful tools but rather as something you acquire for the explicit purpose of mass violence. that could be mass violence in the form of rebellion against a government or a mass violence as presented in many gun advertisements. they encourage customers to fit themselves out in tactical gear, pretend to be a navy seal or member of a swat team. but that is what those images

are about. that is violence, right? you are defending your home. it is not that you are out on the range. it is the culture of marketing guns leading into the notion that the gun is there for waging your own personal kind of warfare. and that is the point of it. that is a real shift. we are living with the result of the shift. someone who worked in the gun industry for many years saw that shift and that change happen. he left because of it. he joins me right after this break. ter this break. ...it's a tasty way to conquer your day. try centrum multi gummies. now with a new look. it's time to get outdoorsy. it's hot. and wayfair's got just what you need. we need a rug. that's the one, yeah. yeah, we were feeling outdoorsy. i know... now through may 31st shop wayfair's memorial day sale and score big

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can walk into a store, and buy weapons of war designed and marketed to kill, is i think just wrong. it violates common sense, even the manufacturer, the inventor that weapon thought that as well. you know, where is the backbone? where is the courage? to stand up to a very powerful lobby. >> well, for the past couple of decades the american gun industry has grown exponentially. in a piece for the bulwark, former firearms executive ryan bossy says that since 1990, seven firearm sales have increased by over 600% from annual sales of 4 million guns, to over 20 million. and that's been due to a major

shift into how the market didn't -- >> he left the industry in 2020, with a book titled, gunfight my battle against the industry the radicalized america, he joins me now. >> i've read various accounts of the shift, i'm curious about what you saw. what was the shift? when did it happen? why did it happen? >> chris, thanks for having me. so, much of the shift in the firearms industry predates the sort of radicalized political shift we saw in our country in the right, and trumpism. i grew up on a ranch as a gun owner, who valued responsible gun ownership, hunting and shooting with my father, those are things are still enjoy. but early on in the firearms industry, i think that cultural connection was being used and twisted to foment something that has become very nefarious. when the nra figured out that the use of hatred and fear and

conspiracy theory could drive people to vote in irrational ways, the firearms industry figured out that these things could be used to drive firearms sales. so you have this kind of twisting of right-wing politics and firearm sales, and here we are today in what feels like an intractable situation, where our entire national politics are held hostage to this issue. >> you're right, once gun companies were careful to avoid incitement with gun monikers, but are now trademark names with the super sniper. the of 15 that promises to get their main card back, that's a reference to the bushmaster ad. you're right about that being a specific moment where you figure that something had shifted. why? >> because that was the moment at which i realized, that this was no longer about the sort of healthy, responsible firearms

ownership, it was now about growth look at all costs. the sort of downstream effects that would come from a get your main card campaign, or hubert's urban super sniper campaign. where now we have all sorts of lock her up ar 31 magazines, those are downstream pollutants that the industry acted like they could just flush down the river to prove someone else to deal with. here we are as a country, dealing with those pollutants, they are not for somebody else to deal with, we're all americans. i came to realize that those were just exceedingly dangerous advertising campaigns. >> right, because it seems to me, there's also this kind of -- i was talking about this earlier today when we're talking about our call, about the taco bell fourth meal problem. at a certain point, talk about looks out on a server the country, and they say we have talked about as we have ever or we can have a taco bell, and we're selling people just about

as much taco bell that we can seldom, but we have to sell, and they came up with this campaign a fourth meal, if we can get people eating taco bell one more meal a day. at a certain point, it's like you sold the guns we've sold for a hunting in recreation, or the guns are sold for self-defense, maybe a small handgun to keep on the bedside table or something. there's gotta be other reasons for people to keep buying guns. that seems like part of what is happening. >> it's not an accident that the most tumultuous time in your life, and my life, the time between january 1st 2020, and january 7th 2021, when george floyd was murdered, covid lockdowns, race riots, counterprotests. these things were ripping the nation apart, right? that corresponds perfectly to the highest gun sales ever in the history of the united states. if you are an industry and a

lobbying organization, the nra, that these things that will drive your outcomes, then why would you not try to encourage more of these outcomes? the spillover effects are horrific, we are allowing kids, 18 year old kids, to go buy a gun that they should not have two days after they turn 18. they can't even buy a handgun, but they combine ar-15, they can buy 30 round magazines. this is what we need to do drive business? i'm sorry, but have we know sole? >> there is also the fact that guns are very well made. and unlike many consumer products in my by, particularly this days, my last six months, break. it's a little like carbon molecules in the air, they just accumulate. they don't go anywhere. they stay in working order, so when you sell -- when you talk about, kind of

pollution. it's like every sale is just the first sale, in the first chapter in that gun's life. but they can have many lives, right? >> look, i own guns myself, my favorite gun was built in 1912, and it's probably as good today as it was the day it was built. i don't need 100 more of those. you are right, these are not disposable. i guess, maybe one of the things you're hitting on here is that the firearms industry and the nra is trying to make this a consumable good, but it's not inconceivable good. these things are durable goods, they hang around forever. as you drive down the road, chris, there's about 285 million registered vehicles in the united states, and we all deal with traffic, we look across the roads and think, that's a lot of cars on this road. there are 400 million or more guns in the state, hundred 200

million more than the cars that you, see and they're not gonna go away. >> ryan buzzy, your book is really interesting, is accepted in the bulwark earlier. i appreciate you coming on tonight, thank you very much. >> thanks for having me, chris. >> still ahead, david hogg helped lead the push on in florida -- what he learned from that very hard-fought victory, and whether it can happen again, after this. ctory, and ctory, and whether it can happen after this that no child should die in the dawn of life. to work with many partners all over the world, nothing stops in the way of us achieving that mission, not even war. marta salek md: when there is a need, people stand up and do what is right

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names, seeing the pictures and hearing the stories of the 19 elementary school children and teachers brutally murdered in a texas classroom yesterday. of course, the conversation is turning into what can be done at the policy level and legislatively to prevent this level of violence from happening to another school and two other children and two other people. the thing is, there was a time not too long ago when we had real hope for that. remember, four years ago, a former student walked infamously into marjory stoneman douglas high school and murdered 17 people. and after that, the survivors, high school students formed a coalition. they spoke out in interviews, sharing their stories and met with lawmakers, even putting on the enormous march for our lives rally in washington d.c., attended by over 1 million people. that pressure yielded real results. they got a van governor of florida, now senator scott,

setting the republican agenda for the midterms, to sign a law to put some gun control in place. the question is, can this momentum be recaptured to do something again? david hogg is a gun control and gun safety advocate and a board member of march for our lives. he was part of that group of survivors who brought such pressure to bear in 2015. he joins me now. david, you have been at this for four years now. what have you learned? >> i know this might sound crazy, but i do not believe we are as nearly as divided as we think we are. that's the biggest thing i have learned. i have been protested and counterprotest by hundreds or thousands of people outside of events i have done with friends and across the country. basically, basically at every event since as well. in many places there, people were openly carrying ar-15s. i've had many conversations with people like that, and conversations with people in my direct messages, many of them

called me names. but we agree. we agree that we need to end gun violence in the country. would i bring it back to is -- look, i'm not going to change your mind and i am not going to change yours. but we have to figure out, where can we agree and move forward? that is something we have to do as americans to address the issue. just one thing -- it will not end gun violence entirely. it is 100 million more but [inaudible] we can still make a reduction. it's like cigarettes. we need to address the gun industry like we address the tobacco industry. we need to address the reason why people want to smoke the same reason way that we need to address why people want to have a gun. -- >> you are someone who has been the target of a lot of animus. i have watched it play out. i have often worried on your behalf, honestly, in a sort of paternal way about your psychology and how it has affected you subjectively. but i feel like you have a unique insight into the fervor

here, because you have been face to face with it. right? so, there is something very deep about this, like, sentiment of you are trying to put profoundly change my life. there is something tyrannical about what you want to do. how do you come to understand that sentiment or pathos that is driving a lot of this? >> i think that it is fear. and it is hatred. because people fear what they do not know. and essentially, the hatred i have seen directed towards me, it typically comes from one or two places. it's hatred or insecurity. we have to address the hatred. and bring in education, bringing people to talk to them. and also not justify the defense mechanism of hatred. the thing i want to get out, though, chris, is that four years ago we marched and it worked. the movement did its job. we had a high turnout in a non presidential midterm in history.

then we had the highest ever in 2020. we voted out more politicians than ever before in american history. right now, we are closer than ever before as a movement and stronger than we have been as a movement to changing this. we have a pro gun violence prevention president and a pro gun violence prevention house and senate. that is why march for our lives is calling for a second march, right now, across the country, we are young people and older people and republicans and democrats and gun owners and non gun owners can all come out because we realize that, that we have our disagreements, on certain things, ultimately we must focus on what we can do. this one thing. that's why i asked people to join us on june 11th, when we plan to march. we are going to be everywhere across the country. we want to show americans, and especially congress, that this issue is not going away. we demand that they act, even in a small way. it may not absolutely eradicate gun violence but we need one step. and i know that every single

republican -- most americans agree with me on this. democrats, republicans and everyone i talked to, we agree. we need to do something, even if it is small and just save one life. because these kids are dying. these are not even kids, these are babies. our future is dying with them and if people want to help us with that, i need you to text march two 954-954 because we need as many americans as possible marching with us in the street. and behind them, and then get the state capitals tel aviv. because they nra shows up. and they show up and they win. it's not because they support elections with donations. it is because they show up. and we need to show up in the streets and then bring this to state legislatures and to congress and show that this issue is not going away. we are not going to wait until the next shooting happens to address this. >> your point there, i think, is an important one. the nra derives its power not from money but from people. people that show up, that are

there, that believe in the program. and counter mobilizing is key to understanding that. i know you understand that. june 11 that will be looking for that march. david hogg, we appreciate time, thank you. >> thank you. and we need people to show up, so text march to 954-954. >> that's it for this evening. and we go to allie who is hosting from uvalde, texas, good evening. good evening, chris, thank, you and have a good rest of your night. thanks david home for joining us this hour, i'm coming to you live from outside robb elementary school, here in uvalde, texas, this is the latest american town whose name you may not have known, and yet will be shattered from a mass shooting. i'll be honest with you, the thing that strikes me when you walk around this town, main street is just up, there is how normal everything feels. the final days of school were canced