tv The Beat With Ari Melber MSNBC July 7, 2022 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT
thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times. we are grateful. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. >> hi, nicole. i'm ari melber. happy to be back at work and with you tonight. my thanks while a took a vacation to recharge. you do need a full battery amid the news we have been living through, including more breakthroughs in the investigation into trump's -- the january 6th committee has been compelling new cooperation from a pivotal witness, and just to begin tonight, to get a sense of how large and significant this break through is, recall it
is the witness who vice chair liz cheney name checked at the end of one of those recent investigative hearings, which was itself a powerful move because there's rangling that goes on over time, so tub lick -- publicly calling out a witness is a last resort, but that's what congresswoman liz cheney did to name and shame a trump white house lawyer who she said was not fully cooperating at the time. you probably heard his name, pat cipollone. he had talked to the committee once, so he was not total by defying them like steve bannon or peter navarro. he didn't get to the point of recommending a contempt citation but at the same time he had not agreed to testify under oath. so cheney led that public charge, which we then learned was the prelude to a subpoena,
and this all worked, and fast. now cipollone will be testifying tomorrow under oath on camera in the main format the committees use because you've probably seen clips of the video depositions as they explore issues and build up part of the different story, the facts, the evidence they've gathered in these sometimes blockbuster hearings. i want to make one more point about this tonight for you. we are seeing another crack in how some key trump veterans have tried to evade this probe, and it matters on both process and substance, because on process, it has been variety toll donald trump's defense, such as it is, to try to delegitimatize the entire committee probe to, taint its approach and findings in advance. that's why we remember kevin mccarthy was trying to place people like jim jordan to be on the hearing. these hearings would be different if he was there.
that was trying to -- when speaker pelosi said republicans would be on the committee, but not those with conflicts of interest, mccarthy came up with a backup idea boycotting the whole thing, saying it would be partisan if they boycotted it. that failed so badly trump admitted it didn't work and complains they don't have representatives on the committee. why am i talking about this with cipollone tomorrow? because then you may have heard this next piece, the parsing the evidence. if you listen to trump, especially as anxiety has been increased with the evidence piling up, this a talk a lot about the committee's selective information or its, "hearsay" testimony. keep this in mind as the committee wins this months' long standoff with cipollone tomorrow. what is hearsay? in essence sit basically if you
simplify it, secondhand information. for example, there have been tantalizing leads featuring witnesses talk about what cipollone said. that's secondhand in moments like these. >> mr. cipollone and i had a brief private conversation where he said to me, we node make sure that this doesn't happen. this would be legally a terrible idea for us. >> pat cipollone weighed in at one point. i remember saying that letter that that guy wants to send, that letter is a murder/suicide pact. >> mr. cipollone said something to the effect of, please make sure we don't go up to the capitol, cassidy. we're going to get charged with every crime imaginable. pat was concerned it would look like we were disrupting the electoral process or the electoral college count. >> said it looked like it was disrupting the electoral law or
it's going to be a murder/suicide pact if you get the doj in writing on trying to join a coup. that's some of what pat cipollone reportedly said, and it's the kind of damning stuff trump protesters have been protesting as, quote, hearsay, because as you just heard other witnesses are recounting what pat said without hearing from pat. but if people think about this for one minute, and maybe they hope you won't, the reason some of that damning evidence has been limited to, quote, hearsay, is not because of the committee, not because of the cooperating witnesses you just heard, all of them, by the way, trump loyalists when it comes to policy and ideology, but just telling the truth about how he used to a coup to try to stay in government. the reason that stuff is secondhand is because of pat cipollone, just like other material is second hand because of mike pence, because of the trump appointees to refuse to
explain themselves under oath, to stand up like any responsible adult or tough person if you want to put it in that faux courage mind set and say, hey, if you're not ashamed, if you're proud of what you did, then just come and explain it. these are the people ducking and running from that and complaining about the evidentiary short comes they created. ah, the audacity. tomorrow this all blows up in their faces. goes up in smoke. this top lawyer will be compelled to explain under oath what he did, and we're just in the facts. if he has some stories that are different or les harsh than what we just played you, we weigh that under oath with other witnesses and contemporaneous documentary material. but the committee wants to know whether they did warn trump and other officials whether they did -- about crossing the lines.
that could be damning if then-president trump crossed the line after getting the warning. the attorney general and his prosecutors might want to know about that, too. so, the evidence will likely get fuller and stronger as soon as tomorrow. meanwhile, one of trump's top aides, former chief of staff mick mulvaney said out loud this evidence damaged trump so much that he and the party are facing a kind of drag for the next two elections if not more. >> folks in my party are looking at donald trump as damaged, and something that might weigh down the party going into the midterms and into 2024. >> just like the top lawyer, that's the top aide. he was the number one official if the trump white house, talking about trump being damaged. and if you're checking, he just said that just now himself. it is not hearsay. i want to bring in your experts.
neal katyal is former acting solicitor general for the obama administration. he may tell us about the swiss cheese holes of exceptions but that may be late, late in the segment, because i did that once in law school, and it was tough. and legal writer for "the new york times" magazine, emily bazalon. neal, let's start with this term, because it has this grandeur of the law, and we are a legalistic culture here in america. when people -- i don't mean just denialists, but people hear, this is secondhand hearsay, and that's partially true, it sounds like a knock. then when you look at what's happening tomorrow, then finally cipollone's history won't be hearsay because he's stopped defying. >> yeah, exactly. first of all, ari, i don't think the statements last week by
cassidy hutchinson were hearsay. she's testifying to conversations she was part of, so that's not really hearsay. to the extent it is hearsay, the only reason it is is because, like you say, people like cipollone didn't come forward. that was the only evidence that was available to them. but tomorrow -- and i'm so glad to see the committee stepped up their efforts to get pat cipollone's testimony. they subpoenaed him, ari, which is like a legal request for him to show up, and he is now coming before the committee tomorrow, and he's going to tell his story. and at that point it's not hearsay anymore, it's just say. and it will be firsthand information. and i think the committee's expecting big news. i mean, they scheduled two hearings for next week right on the heels of this cipollone testimony. feels like they're not just expecting bombshells, they're bracing for a bull barrage,
because pat cipollone is key to these events. >> as neal puts it, being as clear with the english language as we can, it goes from hearsay to say. he's going to say so about whatever he wants to explain about what he's done, and he's, again, a trump guy, emily. we're not talk about whether he agrees on immigration or executive authority that runs broader than some lawyer might view it. we're talk about bright line criminal stuff which, again, according to, as neal says, conversations that people were directly in and some other tertiary stuff. reminding everyone about what a trump loyalist he is, this is what he sounded like. >> they're asking you to tear up all of the ballots across this country on your own initiative.
take that decision away from the american people. it would dangerously change our country and weaken -- weaken forever all of our democratic institutions. why tear up every ballot across this country? you can't do that. you know you can't do that. defend the sacred right of every american to vote. >> emily, as people can hear there, that was the trump impeachment defense. he went from being a legal defender of trump in the first in the meantime to being directly involve in the trying to, according to some testimony, trying to prevent potential misconduct or crimes that led to the second impeachment. >> right. i think what i'll be fascinated to hear -- first of all, what is the scope of questions cipollone agrees to answer? how much is he going to invoke
attorney/client privilege. i'd love to hear what neal thinks about that. secondly, what is he going say about the kinds of warnings he was giving about the all crimes imaginable risks that, according to other witnesses, he was concerned about. and what did he think trump understood? did trump concede that this was a ruse? were his reasons legitimate? what were trumps reasons for wanting to go to the capitol and the fiery speech he gave beforehand? those are all things cipollone seems crucially placed to answer those questions. >> neal? >> yeah, so i think emily's exactly right. he's crucially placed. he's agreed to testify. the problem is, we don't know what he's going to testify to. if he follows the trump playbook, he's going to assert privilege after privilege. he'll assert executive privilege, even though the supreme court rejected it 8-1 already, and they're subject to the crime fraud exception as a
federal judge in california already ruled, and he's going to invoke attorney/client privilege, which will truly get him nowhere, because when ken starr tried before, there were a series of legal precedents that said, if you're in the white house counsel office, your boss is not just the president, it's the united states people, and if they have a need for evidence, it will come out. i'm sure he'll claim privileges. neil eggleston wrote a series of -- how bogus the claim would be and how damaging it would be for him to try to invoke them. the second thing is i think donald trump's reaction to cipollone going testify event is really important. he had a soft touch. that's rare. he issued a statement on truth social. didn't try to undermine
cipollone's credibility. didn't attack his character or call him phoney cipollone. donald trump lashes out when he's scared, but when he's terrified, and with cipollone he is, he's actually trying butter him up a little bit. >> i think that's an astute and fair reading of it, neal. i suppose we can't ever any what's in anyone's mind, certainly not the former president. but to emily's point, this seems to be an awareness by donald trump how much cipollone knows and how much the hearings are breaking through. we have a bar chart here that shows, emily, how many people have watched part of these hearings over time. it's a sustained interest, and in the culture, internet, there seems to be a lo of interest. >> you played mick mulvaney talking about this. these hearings have broken
through. they have been riveting in a lot of cases. and the question is, you know, how much of the trump supporting electorate or the uncertain swing vote, as we call it, how much is it effecting those groups? and i think we see especially among independent voters significant interest and significant damage to former president trump. >> right, and then it goes to the fact that people can look at this more than one way. there's democracy, ethics. mick mulvaney was just making a self-interested political argument about, i'm not sure we're going to get the same coalition if 2%, 4%, or 6% think this guy's a the autocrat who would take a third term if he could. maybe you lose a little bit there. and that's just a layer of it. i want to thank emily and neal. let me tell everyone what's coming up. the republican party's growing comfort and even embrace with abusing government power. it's a long ways from
libertarianism, and we have a special report. and later tonight, i'm going to show you something we have been doing throughout the hearings. one of our special look at key moments now that we have more hearings coming together. the holistic information. why some are talking about indicting the former president. at the end of the hour, another conservative loss abroad, this time in the uk. we'll get to that. stay with us. time in th and forms an antibacterial shield. try parodontax active gum health mouthwash. we'll get to that. stay with us
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every search you make, every click you take, every move you make, every step you take, i'll be watching you. the internet doesn't have to be duckduckgo is a free all in one privacy app with a built in search engine, web browser, one click data clearing and more stop companies like google from watching you, by downloading the app today. duckduckgo: privacy, simplified. turning to this new scandal involving a trump appointee who is still serving in the federal government. this is an interesting story. it has trump abuse of power allegations, but in the biden administration because not everyone turns over immediately. this also is going to bring us
into the wider scrutiny on republican abuse of power and big government overreach in america right now from trump to desantis to lindsey graham. let me explain what's going on. the first domino is pressure on trump appointee overseas. biden to order an internal probe to find out if the u.s. did what the public has been demanding, using pressure to punish his opponents. all this happening as "the new york times" -- two fbi veterans trump publicly called the target. one is the famous director fire by trump after he stood up to trump. you remember james comey, the
next was his replacement, mccabe, fired by trump for similar reasons. you may recall donald trump's petty, relentless, and public calls for their investigation, punishment, and even imprisonment. >> director comey was very unpopular with most people. he's a showboat. he's a grandstander. the fbi has been in turmoil. i fired comey. well, i turned out to do the right thing. why didn't comey come clean? why didn't mueller investigate comey? >> you accused opponents of treason. who specifically are you accusing of treason? >> i think a number of people. if you look at comey, mccabe. >> there it is. treason. investigate them. on twitter, when he was allowed to tweet, he repeatedly posted about demanding their firing in the case of mccabe, and
suspension of his pension and trying to get them imprisoned. so, now you have comey and mccabe targeted by this tax audit that to this day tonight they're claiming is just random. i'll report that's what the irs is just claiming. it's not just any audit. it's considered one of the most invasive in existence. the chance of being selected for it would be one in 136,000 for one person. but here you have two people, both named by trump in the same orbit. in fact, as far back as 2017, donald trump had a lawyer who suggested comey should be investigated, and that's the same year of comey's irs audit. keep in mind, this is a felony if it were proven that it was done as a targeting, that it was not random. here's mccabe responding today. >> we're talking about a
coincidence that really is almost impossible, statistically. it defies belief. so, is it possible that there's someone in the irs who has an ability to influence this supposedly random process to go after people that they have some sort of an issue with? yeah, i think that's possible. i think that's what the irs needs to find out by conducting a fair and thorough investigation. that's all fairly put. as for his note about the odds. "the times" ran the reports. is this like 1 in 5 million? 1 in 10 million? 1 in 20 million? no. 1 in 82 million are the odds that both the fbi director and his replacement would be audited this way. the irs says it's referred it to the inspector general for
review. this is not the only issue around abuse of power. take republican senator lindsey graham who has tried to help trump every which way. he's just been hit with a subpoena over his conduct in an election in a state he doesn't live in. this is georgia. this is when he was chair of the judiciary committee, and to defend his actions, graham now says this was done, quote, as chairman of the senate judiciary committee, and thus he was within his rights. i just want to stop right there and say, that is a wild and bizarre admission. it would be one thing for someone who is both in power and a candidate or involved in a campaign to say, as part a that campaign they were just calling up and trying to advocate to win, which can be done during and after the election. bush v. gore. you have all that jockeying. but here lindsey graham admits he was trying to help trump as chair of the judiciary committee, which would appear to be wrong and an abuse of power
for political ends, which is why this is broader than trump. we're talk at a party that used to say its founding tenet was a skepticism of goth power. at its most conservative it was supposed to be libertarian. very concerned about federal power. lindsey graham is a federal officer. or any big government power. from women's rights to the way they're interfering in elections, you just have basically all of that going up in smoke. take ron desantis down in florida. consolidating control of an elections police force which he says he will control in a new state office that will now go after voter fraud in ways that, at least critics and nonpartisan observers say, shows meddling in free and fair elections. all of this is not only concerning that it happens at all, but that it's happening in more brazen ways because they're admitting it in public. so, what do you do about it?
and is it important to scrutinyize it? especially when you look at journalism working. as mentioned we have someone who's been at the forefront of dealing with abuse, including discrimination, maya wily when we're back in one minute. , maya that can scale across all your clouds... we got that right? yeah, we got that. it's easier to be an innovator. we're back in one minute nicorette knows, quitting smoking is freaking hard.
you get advice like: just stop. go for a run. go for 10 runs! run a marathon. instead, start small. with nicorette. which can lead to something big. start stopping with nicorette. we are back with maya wiley. nice to see you. >> nice to see, ari. welcome back. >> happy to be back, even though there's plenty going on. and happy to have you here. there's more than one piece to this. i landed on desantis, but starting with the irs. i mentioned your work in law and discrimination. it's wrong to discriminate against people for any number of reasons. identity is one -- race, gender, how they define themselves. it's also wrong to abuse government power, did it criminate against someone because of their beliefs or perceived beliefs. given that 1 in 82 million is
very hard to credit as a random explanation, which is the irs' explanation today, walk us through your views of that legally and ethically. >> let's start with what any lawyer would start with, which is if something stinks, you look to see if something is rotting or rotten. and this does stink. i mean, to the point that you already raised, ari. it is -- is it somehow possible? it's very hard to believe two people who donald trump explicitly called out for retribution are now in these audits. it does require independent inspection. it's a good thing there is an independent inspector general who will be looking into investigating just how rotten this might be, but that really is the point, right? it's really important to recognize right now that one of the presidents coming out of watergate, gerald ford, was one of the people who started
instituting some protections to try to restore faith in government, like making sure the white house wasn't directing the department of justice. that's another norm that donald trump violated. in fact, with james comey trying to get him to say that he would be loyal to donald trump rather than loyal to the office and to the people. and one of the things that gerald ford said which was so important is, we're a government that is made up of laws, not of people. meaning that what we're supposed to protect is the rule of law. because otherwise no one can have any faith in government. and if there's no faith in government, it's impossible for government to govern, and that's what's going on here. >> yeah, i mean, you really broaden it in an important way, which is why it's so corrosive. as for this trump holdover running the irs, he's saying, oh, my gosh, we need an investigation of what we're doing, and it's like, okay, dude, but, like, you're in charge. these are high profile
individuals. if you open up an audit of a comey or jeff bezos or a presidential candidate, that's high-level stuff. we know over at main and justice when it comes to investigations those need high level signoff precisely because of the existence of investigations or audits can affect people in the court of public opinion or future confirmation. all of that doesn't make sense or add up. i'm curious what you think the doj should do, because "the times" points out, i think it's well known, this kind of abuse is a bright line felony. it's illegal under federal law for anyone in the executive branch, with few exceptions, for anyone to request these audits. up to five years in prison. you have trump publicly demanding and it what appears to be either its carrying out -- i would call that a more likely scenario, door number two.
or door number one, and less likely, run that scenario, go through 82 million doors to have number two be random. should doj be investigating this? or should merrick garland be so worried about optics -- speaking of comey -- that he doesn't want to open up too many investigations involving trump stuff even though there would appear to be a predicate? >> they make decisions on what to investigate based on what they're seeing, and it is their job not that make them based on politics. and optics in this case, i think the optics are that this requires investigation. it may be what they do is wait and see what evidence the inspector general. comes up with. because remember, that is a function of why we have inspector generals in our agencies. one of the things donald trump didn't like was inspectors general, when he didn't like the
conclusions of the work they were doing, in fact, fired quite a number from the community. mr. atkinson. i say that because inspectors general do have an important role, and it's one where the doj could pick up on an investigation if the inspector general is saying, hey, i found some rotten fish. >> mm. it all makes sense. you know, maya, it's no secret we come to you often for your expertise. i would say you're 1 in a million, but you're at least one in 82 million. >> i don't know if i want to be 1 in 82 million. >> ask these two fellas. you may not want to be, but that's the rarity we're talking about. again, in court, you look at fingerprints or certain evidence in court, sometimes you get down to a big enough number or small enough odds, and you say, yeah, that's proof. so i don't know. again, as you were careful to say, they got to look into it.
go ahead. >> just one point we really should reflect here -- both james comey and andrew mccabe were career public servants. they did not come up because they were necessarily in one party or the other. in fact, they both are probably in different parties. there is a prerogative for the department of justice to protect that public service and make sure it's not punished because it stays independent. >> exactly, and that again goes to how this is abused. people have different thresholds. we talked about the "courage" to do a day of taping and testimonies but what about having your lives, finances. comey was a registered republican and served in administrations in both parties. as you said, it stinks. but we'll be on it. maya wiley, good to see you. let me tell everyone what's
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no more hearsay. that was the theme we started with tonight with neal katyal and emily bazalon. as blockbuster testimony is expected with this trump white house lawyer facing the january 6th committee tomorrow. live hearings also resume next week, and this is in a way the end of the line. legally you could call it closing arguments, a finale, but basically they're going to go at the last big evidentiary question about who was tied to the extremist groups. was donald trump or anyone in government trying to call in those volent plays?
was that the plan or not? with a dozen hearings in the books and two more to come, we want to show you the most important testimony so far. >> this select committee to investigate the january 6th attack on the united states capitol will be in order. >> these false claims of election fraud -- >> a massive effort to spread false and fraudulent information. >> stuff that his people were shoveling out to the public was bull -- >> he said dead people are voting. >> it's a combination of italians and germans, hugo chafsz, the philippines. >> indians are getting paid to vote. >> are you out of your eff'ing mind? >> it is not true. >> he's detached from reality. they were idiotic claims. >> votes are still being counted. it's too earl to tell, too early to call the race. >> we should not declare victory until we had a better sense of
the numbers. >> i did not agree with the idea of saying the election was stolen and put out this stuff which i told the president was bull -- >> i respect attorney general barr, so i respect what he was saying. >> there's kechtchup dripping dn the wall and a shatters plate. the president was angry and threw his lunch against the wall. >> after the -- what were the chance of the president winning the election? >> none. >> he delivered to the president in blunt terms he would lose. >> we would lose 9-0 in the supreme court. >> rather than accept the results of the election, he tried to wince the american people the election was stolen. >> constitutional mischief. >> mark said something to the effect of, things might get real, real bad. >> i don't want the hear any other words coming out of your mouth other than orderly transition. >> president trump directed them
illegally to march on the capitol. >> mr. cipollone said we're going to get charged with every crime imaginable. >> i saw it, i documented it, and i experienced it. >> the president reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel. used his free hand to lunge. >> i documented from arsonists to insurrectionists. >> i overheard the president say something to the effect of, you know, i don't eff'ing care that they have weapons. they're not hear to hurt me. >> the anger and profanity. >> let my people in. >> hang mike pence! >> the vice president refused to get into a car, and the vice president said something to the effect of, you're not the one behind the wheel. >> aware of the rioters' chants to hang mike pence, the president responded, quote, mike pence deserves it. >> the mayor was intoxicated.
>> i didn't mind being characterized as team normal. >> was the defense fund a marketing tactic? >> the lied to his supporters and the country. >> corruptly pressured state legislators and election officials to change election results. >> he lost. but he betrayed the trust of the american people. the people had voted him out, and the courts upheld the will of the people. >> we are joined by nick akerman, a lawyer and former watergate prosecutor who knows his way around exactly these kinds of probes. pretty strong stuff when you look at at it wholistically. >> you do. you put together a nice summation of what the committee has done, which is exceeded expectations of what chairman thompson said the committee would do from cay one, which is
that donald trump was basically the criminal in chief of the effort to undermine the peaceful transfer of power. and i think that's what this shows. >> hmm. yeah, you lay it out like that, and look, nick, we don't require that you only say orderly transition. you can say other things. unlike the counsel that john eastman was given there. and i'm curious, the real role of lawyers here -- i don't say that because we are both lawyers, full disclosure -- but just as in the case of john dean, white house counsel, who you and your investigation dealt with hen he turned, tomorrow we have a white house counsel going before the committee. why does that always seem to come back to them? >> this is the second time we've seen this show basically. john dean testified, laid out before the senate watergate committee, a very cogent and
precise recitation of meetings with richard nixon in which he was basically orchestrating the coverup of the watergate investigation. and after he testified, republicans on the committee, other supporter of nixon claimed he was a liar. claimed he wasn't credible. and now we're seeing the same thing happen again with cassidy hutchinson. what makes cipollone so important is that he's going to be kind of like the tape that corroborated john dean. he's going to the guy to come in and basically be able to say that what cassidy hutchinson said was absolutely the truth. i mean, cipollone was the lead lawyer for donald trump in the first impeachment. in trump world, he's as good the a tape recording. >> yeah. liz cheney is now saying in public they have the power and may make more than one criminal referral. how does that all work?
what were your thoughts there, nick? >> i don't think it make a difference. the evidence is out there. first of all, the department of justice has got to realize that they've got serious crimes to investigate. donald trump is up to his eyeballs in criminality here. other people around him are up to their eyeballs in criminality -- a legal term, by the way. and they have to investigate it. they have to. they have to put people before a grand jury. and even more importantly, this same evidence can be used in georgia in the grand jury investigation that's going on there. because this evidence the committee doubted -- prosecution into the context of what donald trump was doing. wasn't just the call to governor kemp to try to get him to call a special session, the georgia legislature to throw out the electoral vote. wasn't just the call to brad
raffensperger to get him to find extra votes to give the election to donald trump. it was also the entire context of what donald trump was trying to do. he couldn't win the election without just georgia. so the georgia prosecutor now has all of this other evidence that she can use, one, to show his intent, his motive, his plan, and also possibly to indict him on the charge of racketeering statute, which is a very serious crime in georgia, has a minimum of five years in prison, and a maximum of 20 years. so donald trump is looking at some serious charges here that have all, you know, been sort of pushed forward by this january 6th committee. >> yeah. yeah, and as you say, cheney is talking about what they can do, but you're talking about the evidence itself, as doj has to process it, that's their obligation and job, is itself a
public referral. nick akerman, always good to have you. >> thank you. good to be here. >> appreciate it. i have a question for you if you're watching at home. what happens when you have right-wing conservative incompetent government and people actually stand up and conservatives say enough? that's the question that was just answered today across the pond. boris johnson out. we'll get into it next. the this is john. he never gives up—no matter what life throws his way. pond boris johnson out. boris johnson out. we'll get into it nextad diets.. 5 kids... 3 grandkids... 1 heart attack. and 18 passwords that seem to change daily. with leqvio, john can lower his cholesterol—
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of internal pressure from his own conservative party. indeed, it wasn't one or two witnesses or five or six people complaining in public, it was 50 members of his own government quitting basically making it more impossible for him to continue. and the scandals range from hypocrisy, passing covid rules that they violated to the very serious allegations of mgs handling a sexual assault case against someone he had appointed. here's what some members of his own party were saying. >> the public can't afford to put up with this. >> once again, the prime minister puts political survival before public duty. >> at some point we have to conclude that enough is enough. >> does the prime minister think there are any circumstances in which he should resign?
>> they know how to ask questions over there. they do it to each other's faces. there's still a thing or two we might learn from that british political culture. this is the final chapter and they seem to basically disrespect the entire act of governing itself. johnson refused to step down initially and critics compared the way he wanted to hold on to power to trump's inability or criminal unwillingness as one guest put it tonight to deal with his own laws. there are also differences. in the u.k. they did stand up. in the united states, they do not. regardless of what they said before trump was elected and what they reportedly often say behind closed doors. and if you're thinking, will you miss mr. johnson? well, perhaps this will answer the question. >> it was all going well and then not so well and then --
>> this is the best. she falls down to volunteer with him. >> go, go, go. whoa. >> very, very well organized. get me a ladder. >> well, now the only ladder he needs is one to walk his way down and out of power. he says he will stay in office though until the conservative party chooses his replacement, which through their parliamentary system happens within that party's vote. some say he should go immediately. we will be right back. e should e your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need... and you could even save $652 when you switch.
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great to be back with you here on "the beat." thank you for spending time with us. you can find me online @arimelber. "the reid out" with joy reid starts right now. ♪♪ ♪♪ tonight on "the reid out" -- >> at some point we have to conclude that enough is enough. i believe that point is now. >> it is clearly now the will of the parliament try conservative party that there should be a new leader of that party and, therefore, a new prime minister. >> british conservatives give boris the boot in direct contrast to america's republicans who not only never held trump accountable but still stand by him despite all of his