career. james khan, gone at 82. and on that note, i wish you all a very good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news. thanks for staying up late with us, i will see you at the end of tomorrow. us, i will tonight on all in. >> the guys a lying demagogue you can't trust, and so you want to be very, very careful about what you do with him. >> did donald trump use the irs to try to take down the fbi? tonight, as the investigations began, the trump appointee who response and the reporter that broke that story joins me live. then zoloft one of the january six committee on tomorrow's big interview will tomorrow's white house counsel. plus david hogg on what we are learning from the father's role in illegal gun sale before the highland park massacre.

and two weeks after the supreme court ended the federal right to abortion, the nightmare scenario is playing out across the country as we get new evidence of hope and growing backlash. all in starts right now. >> good evening from new york i'm chris hayes. you know, it may be 2022 but today we have a new story in the official investigation into an apparent or possible trump administration's conduct. today, the irs announced it is asked the treasury department inspector general to look into audits of the two who dared to cross donald trump. james comey and andrew mccabe. they were both selected by the irs, supposedly at random for very rare intensive financial audits. to give you a sense of just how rare this invasive random audit is, just one out of 30,600 taxpayers i selected for in any given year, and all the sudden interment us occasion with the

irs is still run by the trump appointee commissioner claims it is quote, ludicrous untreated suggest that senior irs officials are now targeting specific individuals. in light of this news in how frequently trump sought to punish adversaries abusing the power of the state. it's worth remembering that these two men were the first people in the ex presidents administration who refused to go along with trump's tactics. james comey had been the director of the fbi for nearly three years when he opened the investigation into ties between the trump campaign and russia in july of 2016. he first met then president elect trump in january, 2017 when he informed trump of the evidence the fbi had collected. comey was also tasked with informing trump in a secret research document. trump described comey described trump's reaction to that in 2018 interview. >> i started telling him about the allegation that he had been involved with prostitutes in a hotel in moscow in 2013 during

the visit during the miss universe pageant and that the russians had filled the episode. and he interrupted very defensively and started talking about, do i look like a guy who needs hookers? >> a few weeks after that, a troubling first meeting between comey and trump. on january 27, trump summoned comey to the white house for a one-on-one dinner where he tried to extract a loyalty pledge from the fbi director. >> he said, i expect loyalty, i need loyalty. and i just stared at him and i had this little narrative with myself inside saying, don't you move, don't you dare move, don't even blink. >> he said it again, i need loyalty, and i said you will always get honesty from me, and he paused and then he said, honest loyalty as if he was proposing some compromise or a deal. and i paused and i said you will get that from me.

>> the next month in february, trump asked comey to drop the investigation into his former national security adviser michael flynn. he asked me he hopes i can let it go. >> and when he said that you thought. >> he is asking me to drop the criminal investigation of his now former national security adviser. >> direction? >> i took it as a direction. his words were though that i hope you can let it go. i took the expression of hope as this is what i want you to do. >> comey we came to learn, immediately wrote an email memo detailing that interaction. it was the new york times who reported part of the paper trail that comey created documenting what he perceived as the presidents improper efforts to influence the ongoing investigation. in march of 2017, comey confirmed publicly for the first time the fbi was investigating potential coordination between the trump campaign and russia. hearing that for the intelligence committee, comey also refuted trump's claim that he'd been wiretapped by

president obama. and a senate judicial hearing in early may, he says that the trump investigation with russia was still ongoing. donald trump had had enough. >> we begin with stunning breaking news. president trump has fired james comey, director of the fbi. it comes without warning and sending shockwaves across washington this evening. the president dismissing the man who was leading the investigation into his campaign. >> comey learned of his firing through a tv report when you speaking with fbi agents in los angeles. comey immediately headed home to washington repeatedly by taking an fbi debt. the rain next day trump held a private meeting in the oval office with russian foreign minister, surveil of goff, and russian ambassador, serve a close gag, hln quote, i just fired that fbi who is crazy. or will not. and we faced pressure because of russia, that is taken off. this was just the beginning of a slew of attack that trump leveled against james comey who

repeatedly called a cheat, or a liar, and said he should be tried for treason. a similar pattern then played out with none other than comey 's successor, andrew mccabe. shortly after mccabe took over, trump summoned him to the white house for a meeting where he reportedly asked mccabe who had voted for the 2016 election. mccabe replied he did not vote. washington post said trump vented his anger at mccain through the several hundred thousand dollars in donations that his wife, a democrat received for her failed 2015 virginia state senate been from the political action. controlled by a close friend of hillary clinton mccabe found the whole conversation disturbing. later on tell 60 minutes what he meant by that meeting. >> i was speaking to the man who had just run for the presidency and won the election for the presidency and who might have done so with the aid of the government of russia, our most formidable adversary

in the world stage, and that was something that troubled me greatly. >> mccabe was so troubled that he almost immediately began an obstruction of justice counter intelligence investigation into trump and his ties with russia. >> the next day i met with the team investigating the russia cases, and i asked the team to go back and conduct an assessment to determine where are we with these efforts and what steps do we need to take going forward? i was very concerned that i was able to put the russia case on absolutely solid ground in an indelible fashion. were i removed quickly or reassigned or fired that the case could not be closed or vanish in the night without a trace. >> now within three months, trump quickly chose christopher wray over mccabe to be returned as previously was deputy director. but in january of 2018, mccabe about the step down following months of taunting from donald

trump. about his wife campaign and a legit connections to hillary clinton. as well as an impending inspector general report that was expected to be critical of some of mccabe's actions during the fbi's investigation into clinton. mccabe plants go on leave for several weeks until he was eligible for retirement in march. but just two days before his retirement day when he would be eligible for its full potential. attorney general jeff sessions fired mccabe and donald trump celebrated. tweeting quote, andrew mccabe fired, a great day for the hardworking men and women in the fbi, a great day for democracy. now it looks like donald trump's campaign may not have stopped. there you see in 2019, james comey was in force inform that he was chosen from the f. irs audit referred to as quote, an autopsy without the benefit of death. two years later, mccabe received the same notification, the times report needed matt knew that the other had been audited until they were told by a reporter. now that they know, they want answers. andrew mccabe told times quote,

i have significant questions of how or why i was elected to this. and james comey said quote, maybe it is coincidence or maybe someone use the irs to get a political on me. given trump wants to continue playing out our country, we should know the answer to that question. a reporter who broke this story from the new york times, michael schmidt joins me now. >> michael, the big development today is a referral to the treasury department inspector general to look into this. what does that mean? >> this is a difficult question to answer, not the question you asked, but getting to the bottom of what happened here. the inspector general will have the tools to do that. you need to be able to go in and compel the iris to given internal documents. to give you access to irs employees to speak with them, and the authority over the agency to investigate it. this inspector general will have the ability to do that certainly in a way that we in

our reporting we didn't have, and perhaps even more invasive way than even congress would have if they tried to do this. so the inspector general is probably in the best position person to investigate this. we don't have an example of criminality, yet we did have an author said that looks very funny and. curious this investigation will hopefully answer the question, why is it that this happened. delight and strike twice. in the same general area. or did something more nefarious afoot. >> i want to read the irs' statement. i think it was from today. the irs has strong safeguards in place to protect exam and against politically motivated audits. it's ludicrous and untrue to suggest that senior irs official somehow targeted specific individuals for national research problem audits. the irs has referred to the matter to the treasury pretax administration review and why this place to be michael, this

is one of those cases where it seems like, in the end, we will probably know the truth, because if there was something improper, it would've had to be done in ways that a number of people knew about it, precisely because the irs says, there are safeguards in place? >> i'm not sure. i guess any process can be corrupted and who knows what this process actually looks like and how many safeguards there are over it? time and time again when i was reporting this out and i knew just about comey's audit, people who had worked at the irs and dealt with them said time and time again that there were too many safeguards there and that it could not be corrupted as an institution. the only thing that i thought when i heard that was that there were a lot of people that made statements like that before the trump administration came in and a lot of different things wouldn't or couldn't happen because they simply

wouldn't because institutions and norms would hold. we saw those norms frayed and wildly creative ways so because of that and because of donald trump's continued harping on these two individuals, it's hard on the face of it to simply accept that this was random. if you didn't have a trump political appointee running the irs at the time and you didn't have a president who accused these two men of treason and wanted to order the justice department to prosecute one of them. he literally wanted to order the department to do that and had to be stopped by his white house counsel from moving forward with that. because of that, it has eroded the day-to-day work of of government. the commissioner that you mentioned, charles rhetoric, who is a trump appointee, what do we know about him?

and what's his involvement has been with donald trump who again, this is one of those appointments, a little like the federal reserve where they are supposed to be kind of arms length distance right? >> correct. reddick was someone who represented wealthy clients in disputes with the irs. he advocated in 2016 that donald trump should not release his tax returns because he was under audit. giving credibility to the argument the trump made on the campaign trail. he's someone who owns two properties at a trump property in waikiki, hawaii. is someone who democrats and republicans have been able to work with. he was a respected lawyer in the tax world. people think very highly of him there. at the same time today, the white house press secretary when asked whether biden had confidence in reddick to run

the agency fairly sidestepped the question and basically said, look he's done in november, his term is scheduled to expire in november. so there was no -- she sidestepped the question. >> the other sort of circumstantial facts that we should introduce to the discussion for context is that this is been a temptation for presidents in the past. it's like a bit of a loaded weapon sitting on the desk in the oval office. fdr had the irs look into political opponents such as jfk, most notoriously richard nixon as part of the articles of impeachment even said it loud he wanted a ruthless s. o. b. to run the irs. there is a history here. because an audit is so awful, because that data is so private and it's such a powerful tool to abuse it. >> to the point of how invasive

this is, this took, the comey audit took 15 months. they have to pay their are counted $5,000. there was the agent that worked on at the did over 50 hours of work. comey had to prove to the irs that he actually had the children who had claimed independence, and he had to do that by showing the picture, the family picture that was included in a christmas card, the family christmas card, to show that he actually had the children that he said he did. so they have to go to great lengths to recreate his financial year, at one point they were looking for a receipt from a printer cartridge he had bought two years earlier. so that gives you a flavor of how invasive and unusual this audit is. >> yeah and in the and he ended up having the irs owe him some money, right? he had overpaid on his taxes. it was at the end result? i remember correctly. >> for people who have watched

jim comey they said it was the ultimate jim comey on brand moment, where here he is, he had to spend $5,000 to hire unaccounted to be told that he had overpaid by $300 on his taxes. >> all right. this is a fascinating story. great reporting michael, and thank you for coming on tonight to explain it. >> thanks for having me. coming up, reports of a second january six hearing next, week all the details on plus other hearings which we know topic of, the coordination between trump world and basically right wing militia members. the committee's upcoming interview with trump's white house counsel tomorrow, january six committee members aloft and joins me next. januar six committee members aloft an

joins me next.

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january six committee will take closed-door testimony from white house counsel donald trump, pat cipollone, which it's becoming even more critical in the investigation since the above elation from casket to the last. week as the country waits to hear this story we are hearing reports one other hearing set when i say regarding. you go whoa reports focus on what was happening inside the white house during the attack on the capitol. so that will be two hearings next week, tuesday we have one confirmed, that is been announced. that will be during the day, and that thursday night, apparently to the reporting in primetime. on today's hearing will present evidence that the trump administration's ties to the far-right gangs like the proud boys who try to violently disrupt the peaceful transfer of power during the insurrection.

congresswoman democratic come a phone, yet member the dynamics of, a joins me now. good to have you. that's a blown against justin, many of significant is that? >> well i think it's likely to be very significant. he was unprecedented from some of the moment we learned about that others were in the room. the efforts to get the justice department to issue a bogus letter. the efforts to replace the civil servants with jeff clark, who wrote the bogus letter. his efforts according to miss hutchinson to try to prevent crimes from occurring on the sixth. we are looking forward to his full testimony and i am glad he is coming in. >> could you give some insight into what the process was to produce this? i know you're not gonna get into private negotiations, but presumably there were some this

content is on topic air concerns. i mean he will be testifying under oath, right? like other witnesses. >> right. it's a crime to lie to congress. and all the witnesses are very advised of that at the beginning of their depositions. i can't speak for him, what changed his mind, we have been in discussions with him for sometime. he was disclosing that he in one of our hearings, he did come in for a non transcribed discussion. our investigators took copious notes. but he was not until recently, prepared to come in and have formal deposition as he is doing tomorrow. whether it was miss hutchinson 's testimony, i don't know, i would just be speculating. i do believe that he has a

concerns and wants to make sure that the office that he has held, remains intact, but it is worth remembering that thst office serves the presidency. not the individual incumbent. and certainly, many of the meetings that we've learned about from others would not be covered by any kind of privileged, there is certainly no attorney client privilege when we discuss matters with other people present. he's a good lawyer, he knows that. >> in terms of next week, well first, if you want to make some news and confirm, is there gonna be a hearing on thursday? >> i thought it best to outlook the chairman and make the announcements rather that random members of the committee. so i think i will stick with that. >> i don't consider you random, congresswoman, but i think that's probably a good policy. can you tell us a little bit about what to expect on tuesday?

>> well i think we will be connecting the dots as people know, and as mr. raskin is indicated probably. we are looking at the connections between the various extremist groups. this wasn't just an event that unfolded. it was planned. who did the planning, and who were they connected with, how did it unfold, and i think we will be connecting dots. it'll be new a formation that has not yet been learned. i think it will be worth watching. what is the expected timeline for the public's section of this? i mean, you know, should we anticipate, is there gonna be some closure and sort of things wrapped up, and a committee that issues a report, or do you suspect that there will be additional public hearings, and maybe some later on? how should we think about that? >> well i think we announced at the very beginning that we intend to have a report. and the report will be after

the public hearings. so i think towards the fall would be a good guess. we will lay out everything that we found out. as others have mentioned, people are continuing to come in with new information. some of them is valuable, some of it is not, but it takes a while to go through all of the material, and make sure we are not missing anything. we want to complete report. and of course, part of our obligation is to make recommendations for various legislative changes, that would make the country stronger. and we are working on that as well. i think it has been publicly reported that i have been working with liz cheney, looking at the electoral count obviously even mr. eastman admitted that what he was proposing violated the electoral count act, but that doesn't mean we might not want to make it a little harder for people seeking to do wrong to take advantage. >> finally, you were a staffer on the congressional committee

investigating watergate. of course that was happening parallel to criminal proceedings, first against the burglars, and then eventually against some of the people in the next admitted in the nixon administration. nixon was pardoned by ford. those parallel inquiries were happening. given that experience do you have any concerns that your committee is doing might be imperiling or infringing on whatever the department of justice is doing to look into all of this. >> no i don't, and just a correction, i didn't work for the committee, i worked for don edwards, a member of the committee, and into some of the wear for him, in that capacity. now i wrote a legislative committee, we don't have legal right to indict anyone, that belongs in the department of justice. we will certainly, at the request, share the appropriate time, discreet pieces of information. but they have subpoena power,

and honestly, they got a lot easier time getting their subpoenas and force two legislative committees. so they are not sharing with us where they are, that is appropriate. if they find evidence of a crime that has been committed, you should find out about that through an indictment, not through leaks. and they certainly haven't been sharing, have not been sharing information with us, and i think that is the right thing. all right congressman women, thank you we appreciate it. >> you bet. have a good evening. >> still ahead, how the july 4th shooter was able to legally buy the guns he used to kill people at a parade. david hogg is here on that next. david hogg is here on that next

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♪ call one eight hundred,est resul eight million ♪ shooting we see a graphic like this showing just how many of these massacres are committed by people who legally bought the gun that they used. this is not all a complete list but every one of these shootings you see where the gun was purchased legally, including the july 4th attack in highland park, illinois where seven people were killed and nearly 40 people were injured, many of them still in hospital. in fact the department of justice found that as of 2019 of the mass shooting cases, 77% of those who engaged in mass shootings purchased at least some of their guns legally. in the case of the highland park shooter, back in 2019 police actually confiscated 16 knives, a dagger and a sword from him after a family member told police that this shooter said quote, he was going to kill everyone.

state police issued by hormones identification cards, in illinois, f o i.d.s, and received a quote, clear and present danger reports, on this individual, the highland shooting suspect after this incident. yet, and yet, he was able to still legally purchase a semiautomatic weapon that he used in the massacre because months later the suspect's father sponsored that permit application and state police granted it. david hogg survived the shooting at his high school in parkland, florida four years ago. he's a gun safety advocate and joins us now. it's great to have you on david, that is such a strange set of facts in this case but it does raise some questions i think about the policy solutions. every time we talk about how to rein in with gun violence in america, when you look at individual cases, here illinois has some kind -- of it's not super easy to get a weapon like this, but still he was able to get one. >> i think it speaks to the fact that unfortunately no law

is perfect but we do have to keep doing all that we can to keep things these things from happening. i think it's important to note that many states across the country, some of the stronger gun laws that illinois has, some people have to essentially be interviewed by police department before they're able to legally obtain a weapon. i would be surprised if the police department was able to interview this individual and having known what they knew would be -- yes this person is okay to have an ar-15. fundamentally chris, what this comes down to and i'm not gonna get into the specifics of the father and many of the details coming out as we speak, but i will say what just happened, he was able to get the gun legally in the first place. there are many people who say that criminals don't obey laws but why should we me making it easier for bad guys to be getting guns legally in this case by making it legal to get

them in the first place. no responsible gun owners, no republican wants this to continue. we have to find the common ground and act together. >> you've been talking about common ground in your journey after this issue of the awful tragedy that happened a year high school. there has been some progress in that. two things that happen. public opinion does seem to be moving in a certain direction. there was that bipartisan gun legislation that is the first we've seen in many many years. what's your reaction to that? >> look, i think the legislation that would pass is a good half step of 1000 other needed to address combines and his country, but it shows that americans are not abide on this issue. the most divided people in this country on addressing gun violence are not in red, and blue, in purple states, across our country. they're 100 senators who are on capitol hill, and that's who's divided in this issue. as americans, as republicans, and democrats, as gun owners

and non gun owners, we need to understand, which we already do, that we don't completely agree on this issue on how to address it, but we fundamentally do agree that something must be done to address this. we know that doing nothing is only gonna allow this to continue in the first place. we have to wait to go to make as much progress as we can and demand that our senators do would already have as americans, which is agree that we need gun safety country in this country. responsible gun owners do not want gun violence to continue nor do republicans or democrats for that matter. we have to work to find a common ground and demand our senators act in the bipartisan manner because we have that ten votes to overcome the filibuster. >> what do you think changed after uvalde in the political calculation or the ability to even get that's how those negotiations happen. as someone who's been working on this for the last few years, what changed? >> i think the conversation changed. the immediate reaction for one,

it's obvious that the incredible tragedy that children that were barely children, essentially babies were slaughtered and the horror that that brought an immediate action that americans brought. they said look, we had tens of thousands of gun owners tweeting out that they were gonna raise for safety. saying, you know, i'm a gun owner, but i know that there is no reason why our kid should be engage in our schools and communities. me owning a gun and preventing these horrifying tragedies are not mutually exclusive in the first place. we saw republicans coming out and speaking about it. we saw individuals like joe walsh and michael steele talking about it. joe walsh was even marching with us to change this. it was the bipartisan pressure that we put on senators combined with the tragedy and to be completely frank with you, the closeness of the election that the republicans felt pressure to allow that to happen. we have to keep going out there and demand, not as republicans and democrats but as americans reunited to care about what we care about most, our kids.

>> david hogg, thank you very much for your time tonight appreciate it. >> thanks. >> coming up, new evidence that there should be hope for democrats in the midterms. that's ahead. democrats in the midterms. that's ahead

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and this plan has a guaranteed lifetime rate lock so your rate can never go up for any reason. so call now for free information and you'll also get this free beneficiary planner. and it's yours free just for calling. so call now for free information. >> we are less than two weeks since the supreme court overturned the federal right to an abortion, and in many states, the absolute worst case nightmare scenarios are already coming true. as of today, mississippi only

abortion clinic has closed. and abortion is either outright ban or severely sick and it doesn't estates. that is already. but the american caught of rheumatology and louis foundation say they are aware of reports of patients being unable to access the drug methotrexate, which is used to treat long term conditions like lupus and arthritis, because it can also be used in high doses or mix with another drug to for medical abortions have a medical abortion. there was also a devastating report out of ohio that's been haunting me since i read it. in which a ten year old victim of rape who was six weeks and three days pregnant with the child of her rapist, had to travel across state lines to indiana, to secure an abortion, because she could not legally access that in ohio. this is not enough that case. this isn't a thought experiment of worst-case an aerial. this is a real child, and a real thing that happens. just days after the supreme

court overturned roe. and the explicit position of many republican leaders is that a ten year old child should be forced to carry the rapists baby to term. just listen to ohio republican governor mike dewine squirm when pressed on the horrifying reality in a state. >> i'm assuming that this has been referred to children services. i assume it's also been referred to local law enforcement agency is. we have out there a obviously a rapist. we have someone who is dangerous, and we have someone who should be picked up and locked up forever. and again, i don't know all the facts of the case, i'm assuming that this has been followed. >> so the process has been. follow to make matters worse in indiana where this girl, secured an abortion legally is preparing its own abortion than its republican attorney general is pushing for one without any exceptions which means that the next elementary school aged

child who becomes pregnant by her rapist in ohio, may not even have the same option of driving to indiana. but as i said, not every republican squirming about this, so much i think that a tenuous should be forced to carry out an abusers child to term. republican governor, christine noem, south dakota, would have also banned abortion without exception seems to agree with the policy. >> but i would say that i don't believe a tragic situation should perpetuated by another tragedy, and so that there is more that we got to make sure that we really are living a life that says every life is precious. especially innocent lives that have been shattered like that ten year old girl. >> i think it goes without saying that this is just wildly out of line with where the american public is on abortion. consistent majorities of americans around 60%, it basically every survey, oppose overturning roe. according to recent monmouth poll 85% of americans, 85% think at the very least abortion bans to include exceptions like rape or incest

or lifesaving situations. according to recent reporting from washington post, republican candidates are looking for ways to avoid talking about their incredibly unpopular abortion stance, which forces ten year old children to give birth on the campaign trail. while democrats, even those governing campaigning in west rates, like where cooper of north carolina, and andy beshear of kentucky, georgia capital to slam all going on the offensive on this issue firmly standing up for abortion rights, unapologetically. talk about how this might play out with the midterms, just four months away, next. play what if i sleep hot? ...or cold? play out with no problem. the sleep number 360 smart bed is temperature balancing, the midterms, jus so you both stay comfortable and can help you get almost 30 minutes more restful sleep per night. and now, the queen sleep number 360 c2 smart bed is only $899. four months away, next only for a limited time.

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the past six, years all political polling should be taken with an enormous brain grant of salt. when you can use post for what i think, is opposed to predict who will win at election by a margin is too measure broader trends and public opinion, or political trans overtime. so right, now there are two trends in national polling. the first, which you probably, see joe biden's approval is going down. according to mamoth, the approval rating has fallen to 36%. that is pretty low. then there is the other trend though that we are seeing is that the opposite thing is happening on with that is called a generic congressional ballots. that is when you ask people whether they are going to vote for a democrat or republican in congress. now normally midterm election performance pegged the kind of presidents approval rating. but that same poll, 47% say they want democrats to control congress. 11 points higher than biden's

approval rating, and also improvement from that meeting in may. broader polling has pointed out that 5:38 are great, the polling accurate, 43% from support democrats on the generic. battle now right now, mammoth as a pair approval rating among democrats that's just 74%. that is pretty low for people in the party. i think the decline in his own party approval is because democrats are frustrated with the way things are with biden. over losing federal abortion rights among other things. but i'm also betting that those same democrats are still pretty ticked off and ready to vote in the midterms which creates this interesting dynamic, for the two parties messaging this fall. joining me now democratic pollster and strategist cornell belcher, and tim miller, former rnc spokesman, and author of why we did it. a travelog form the republican road to hell, which debuted at number two on the new york times bestseller list this week, congratulations, tim. cornell let me start with you on these trends that we have seen, because take away roe v. wade and you have a pretty

straightforward story. inflation is 7%. there is a lot of post covid disruption. there is a war happening in europe that has made gas prices super high. president can't really control any of that stuff. it's kind of served up to the challenge party to just rail against that stuff and say vote for us if you want to change. simple enough. it does seem to me roe is so monumental, and then the broader sort of sense of peril and cultural assault, guns, the court, trump lingering there, just change the picture a little bit then from a normal mid term. what do you think? >> i do think, look, if you go back to at the beginning of the year. you had a generic horse race, republicans opening up a really sort of wide gap in the generic horse race and typically going

into the midterm, it stems -- generic horse race, it's really problematic for them. but over the course of that, since the beginning of the year, what have you? scene you have seen republicans fight restrictions on guns. you see supreme court take away women's rights, and by the way, republicans cheering that, and republican governors state legislative bodies talking about taking away even more freedoms and rights from women, and that is the story that you did just before the segment, it's really heartbreaking. so this is really hitting home. and you also throughout the south of the state, like georgia, you have republicans really sort of take try and go up to the voting rights poor people and minority voters. so, this is becoming classically, you want this to become a referendum on the -- president just like in 2018 we wanted a referendum on donald trump, and what you have is now, this is becoming a referendum on republicans. and that is why you see the

horse race sort of tightening. and that's why you see democrats better positioning because it's less about joe biden's, more about republican overreach. >> yeah and tim, i think mcconnell has the theory of the case correct here. he does very clearly wants to just take things off the table and basically say to voters, do you like 8% inflation or not? right? that's, it's not all i want you to think about. that's all i want to talk about. and if you like a double for the democrats, if you don't like it before us, that is a position that he is best in. but he also has this problem of candidate quality in a lot of the states. herschel walker is just a disaster of a candidate. that should be a very winnable race for republicans in the state of georgia in the year of our lord 2022. that guy is a rough guy to put out there as you're nominee. >> yeah, i think that is why democrats should be looking better in the senate, if you look at 5:38, it is showing that, democrats transform the house pretty low, but senators

is a coin flip. a lot of this is because of candidate quality. i want to look sometimes with america we get some -- american politics, suddenly something might just happen in france for on a very low ratings, in the final run he was put up against le pen who was insane, racist, unacceptable, and so michael went instead of despite his low versus ratings this is the model that the democrat needs in the senate races where you disqualify the herschel walker's in the world loves to extremist. maybe it's this masters that wins in arizona, you can see doctor oz in pennsylvania, ron johnson who we talked about last time i was on the show. all of us can spare so mindset you try to disqualify these people as extremists using some of these social issues, even in support for you know, very far right positions, like abortions, and some of these issues. and get voters who might not be that happy with joe biden, might not be that happy with the economy, to kind of hold

the nose and vote for the democrats because the republican candidates so far out there. i think that's a very realistic model in the senate. it's hard to do that in-house racing and the familiar of the candidates as lower. >> when you look at it statewide, like gubernatorial races where the two things really come to better together josh appeal is running in pennsylvania against mastriano, he was on my part when he said something that was probably true, and every voter of every stripe of ideology in pennsylvania snow. pennsylvania should know it if josh is elected in governor's house of a, new abortion will probably most certainly remain legal in pennsylvania. and if mastriano the republican elected, it will be illegal. he will outlaw abortion in the state. mastriano was very clear on that. there's republican legislators already ready. in that case i was looking at this polling at the salient of abortion and choice for democrats, which has gone up tremendously in this pr i pulling. will you only vote for a candidate who shares her views? that i think is going to play a

pretty big role, i think, if the message is correct, in those couture and races in places like michigan, and pennsylvania. >> well even if you look at sort of the nbc polling from earlier on, you see the issue of abortion raising as a top to issue consideration. we are seeing that in pulling all across the country, where the issue of abortion, before the supreme court, started overturning this, it was not a second or third place issue, consideration. now it is a top two consideration. and i think it goes beyond the governor's race. look, in 2010, women broke for democrats by one point. in 2018, they broke for democrats by almost 20 points. and so that is a difference. where is that gender gap going to be? i find it hard to believe that women voters aren't going to break for democrats by double digit margins because of the roe v. wade decision. >> yeah it's gonna be very interesting, cornell bachelor, and to miller, whose book is getting great reviews, thank

you both for coming on, appreciate it. >> that is all in on this thursday night msnbc prime starts now with ali veteran good evening ali. ht msnbc prime starts now with ali vetera joining us this hour. he was fired from his very first job for lying. it was his first job as a newspaperjo reporter in london, and he got caught making up quotes. but a more right wing newspaper didn't see that as disqualifying so they stacked him up and sent him to brussels to cover the headquarters of the european union. once there he spent the early 1990ars doing what he did best. he made things up. filed reports about how the autocratic foreignersad running thefi eu were making hair-brain rules about what the u.k. could and couldn't do. thingsai like the shape of britain's strawberries. and how british cheese could be made. and making good old-fashioned english fishermen w