tv The 11th Hour With Stephanie Ruhle MSNBC July 11, 2022 8:00pm-9:00pm PDT
this is the last word, the 11th hour stephanie ruhle starts now. e last word, the tonight, the january 6th committee is now hours away from still more revelations about the insurrection, with a special focus on the promise that it will be wildes. then, a closer look at the role the extremist groups like the oath keepers and proud boys played before and during the capitol riot. plus, we go one-on-one with the
filmmaker who is right there with donald trump and family when the reality of his election loss, began sinking in or did not, as the 11th hour gets underway on this monday night. good evening once again, i am stephanie ruhle. and by this time tomorrow we should know substantially more about what led to the january 6th insurrection. beginning at 1 pm eastern tomorrow, the house select committee will reveal what it has learned about the role extremist groups played in the violent assault on the capitol. this will be the panels seventh hearing thus far. when committee aide tells nbc that tomorrow's testimony will focus on how donald trump summoned the mob, as well as the actions of militia groups like the proud boys and the oath keepers. the hearing is also expected to look at how some of these right-wing groups had ties directly to trump associates,
including roger stone and general michael flynn. and revealed ties between some trump associates, and the qanon movement. a former spokesman for the oath keepers is expected to be one of the witnesses. testimony also's expected from an ohio man you've never heard of. this guy on your screen, steven airs. he has already pled guilty to storming the capitol, he admitted to re-posting trump's december 2020 tweet, promising that january six would be wild. >> we've seen what the plot was, we've seen elements of the plot for the fake electors to influence department of justice -- now we're in the chapter of the story which is the violence. and how did this plot turn into a violent insurrection and an attempted coup. that's the next phase of what we will be lino tomorrow. with >> the panel also expected to look at the possible involvement of members of congress, and wet white house
top advisers knew about the potential for violence on the sixth. nbc has learned that close of former white house cabinet counsel pat cipollone, will be seen at the hearing. cipollone, as you recall, sat down with the committee for almost eight hours last friday. yet another committee hearing will be held next week that is expected to take place this thursday, panels panel members say they need more time to get ready. >> we just keep getting more and more information. we have just figured that it's better to do this next week, with more of that information presented before the american people. soon will be wrapping up what we've learned so far, but it will be looking at the actual attack, where was the president during that time? a lot of these facts, in fact mostly put forward by republican employees, trump appointees. >> just think about that. january 6th, a year and a half ago, yet more information rolling in. and all of this happening against the backdrop of steve bannon's apparent change of
heart over cooperating with the january 6th committee. after defying subpoenas for testimony and documents for weeks and weeks, he not only supported trump's election lies, he loudly promoted them, promising, quote, all hell will break loose on january 6th. his offered to testify came just days before his contempt trial, which starts next monday. bannon had tried to delay that, but today a federal judge ordered his trial would go ahead as scheduled, no word on when he will appear before the house committee. meanwhile, another trump ally, senator lindsey graham lot -- from the georgia prosecutor, investigating trump's efforts to overturn the election there. today, a county judge ordered gram to testify, calling him, a quote, necessary and material witness. with, that we have got a lot to cover tonight, so let's get smarter with the help of our lead off panel, katie benner, justice department reporter for
the new york times. philip rutger, pulitzer prize-winning deputy national editor for the washington post. and he'll catch, all department justice better, and and former acting solicitor general during the obama administration. he has argued dozens of cases before the u.s. supreme court. team, i need you to bring your a game tonight, we have a lot here. katie, we hear the testimony from a rioter and a one-time spokesperson for the oath keepers, we will hear from him tomorrow. how is the committee trying to connect the dots? >> the committee is really trying to show that the oath keepers and all fall right -- these are also the groups that have actually been charged by the department justice for seditious conspiracy, that such groups had a relationship with donald trump. they're going to want to show that there was a call and response between what trump was saying, and how the crowd responded. when trump said come to the capitol, the people mobilized. they want to show that even if they can't say definitively that donald trump was working hand in glove with these people, that these folks were motivated by the former president, and
that is really important when you see the violence that has ensued. >> neil, you may have heard me say there before, ties to trump associates, trump associates. what if all of these ties get you through trump's outer and inner most circle, but not to him? >> yes, i think that's possible. but, i think it's unlikely steph, the evidence is trying to show that evidence, so for me, the big picture tomorrow evening, is that if the committee -- mike pence escaped the advancing rioters, and tomorrow's hearing is going to be focused on what those rioters planned to do if they found him. so, that is one focus, the kind of violence of these people. as you said at the outset, it's amazing, 18 months after the events, and we are finding out new stuff virtually every week. and then the other, focus as we, learned of the meeting tomorrow, the december 18th white house meeting. this meeting, as i get stefan's attorney light live would put,
it has everything. it has rudy, michael flynn, sydney powell, and the groups are all discussing, how to invoke martial law with donald trump. and they wanted to appoint sydney powell and special counsel to investigate voter fraud. it was right after that meeting that trump tweeted, it was in the next, day tweeted to supporters calling them to protest their own government. that certainly never happened before in the history of the united states, for the simple reason that most presidents understand that they are supposed to act on behalf of the people, not the act other way around. steph, i guessed, there is the theoretical possibility that donald trump was in the guy calling the shots, or they won't be able to prove that. but, i have to say, this committee, these kind of council who are working on the committee, these are top-notch people, they know exactly how to investigate a mob operation, and that is what's, unfortunately, the white house and the last administration is looking like it was. >> and if our audience is not
familiar, to stephan, bill hater who's one of his best snl characters, he was a new york nightlife critic and guide on weekend report, and he was brilliant. you talk about new information, neal, pat cipollone potentially gave almost eight hours of new information last friday, we believe we will hear some of it tomorrow. what do you want to hear most from him? >> exactly the question you just asked me before. all about donald trump. we've hurt cipollone's junior counsel, we've heard people who talk to cipollone. including, you know, the witness last week cassidy hutchinson, who is amazing, and poised, and gave direct testimony about what's cipollone said. but hearing it from the horse's mouth, and what he said to donald trump is the most important. we -- from saint certain, things claiming bogus privileges in the like. and i sure hope, cipollone is a
very good lawyer, i hope he recognized those claims what they are, which is bogus. but, we don't know the contours, we don't know what happened, but i have to say those witnesses there for eight hours, it doesn't seem like a witness that is invoking much privilege. it certainly can happen, and can have some cheap conversations that trump probably really wants the american people to not learn about. we will have to find out tomorrow. >> phil, the committee is expected to zero in on a meeting that took place in the white house on december 18th. where trump and his allies pushed ideas like seizing voting machines. but cipollone and others resisted, they said it was crazy. what more do you know about that? >> yeah, steph, that is a key meeting in the timeline here, and we'll hear a lot about it in the hearing tomorrow. i assume that pat cipollone was probably asked about that meeting, and asked about the legal counsel that he had provided president trump in that moment. because, of course, it was not
legal or constitutional to seize voting machines, or to declare martial law, or any of the other crazy things that rudy giuliani and sidney powell were trying to get the president excited about in that meeting. but, there is an important connection between that meeting and the tweet that president trump issued to his supporters saying to be in washington on january 6th, because it will be wild. the committee can connect the dots there, and try to signal that tweet where trump was urging his supporters to come to washington was part of this broader plot, this broader conspiracy to overturn the elected results illegally and unconstitutionally, and that can really start to fill out the picture, here. >> neil, in an op-ed, former mueller investigation prosecutor and an msnbc colleague of ours, andrew eisman, said that the justice department needs to change how it is investigating january 6th. i want to share what he said this afternoon. >> looking at january 6th in
terms of what happened that day, and the people who invaded the capital, led to a sort of myopic focus on those events, and then proceeding up the chain. >> is he right to criticize the bottom's up a aspect of this investigation? >> i don't like to disagree of my friend, andrew reisman, but i i agree that -- we don't know exactly where the justice department's investigation has been. it's been operating in the shadows, secretly, that's the way the best investigations operate. a very very well be that they have that wider aperture that mr. weisman is talking about, but the second thing is that this is the way that most criminal prosecutions are done and before mile prosecutions, you start with obviously known people who have committed crimes, and the focus may narrow, and you gradually work your way out. so i think we're 18 months here, so patience is wearing thin, i
get that. but i do think the committee is curious, to demonstrate the wide amount of information that is out there, that trump and his allies have tried to hide with bogus claims of privilege here and there. now that is crumbling, the facade is crumbling, so it's easier for criminal prosecutors at the justice department to pick up what congress has found in this january six hearing, and run with it. the other thing i just wanted to say, back to your last question about is it possible that donald trump might not be implicated, a federal judge has already looked at the evidence and said, steph, that it is more likely than not that donald trump personally committed serious felonies. so, i think we are already over that fresher threshold, as a similar congressional matter. the we -- on the reasonable doubt standard in the criminal law, and it sure looks like it's heading that way. >> let's say we're in the doj, katie, what are you hearing
about communications between the committee and the doj these days. that committee has a lot of information. >> yeah, the committee has a lot of information, and there is sort of an unusual relationship right now between the justice department in the committee. we've seen them actually argue out loud. andrew weissmann, and others who are working on the mueller investigations, i think one of the things they did well was work with congress under very difficult circumstances, including with the committees that were controlled by republicans. you really never saw these kinds of outbursts back and forth, and there is frustration mounting inside the department, they wish they had more information, they wish the committee had given no transcripts. but, you have to keep in, mind and others have said this, that the justice department has subpoena power. the justice department can ask people to come in for interviews, and they can be responsive to some of the material that they have seen out in public, just as they often are when public information that comes in available about matters they are looking into. it is not clear that they have taken these sorts of more proactive steps. >> all right, how about something else unusual, phil, a
dispute that seems to be brewing between donald trump's lawyers, and steve bannon's lawyers. your paper, the washington post, has some great analysis on. it can you break this down? you don't hear about industry like this often. >> no, staff, this dispute is all about steve bannon and the broader case about him denying requests from congress for information, as part of this january 6th investigation. then in his lawyers claim that the president had cited in executive privilege, the bannon could cite investigative provision withholding information. but the president's lawyer, justin clark, the former campaign counsel disputed that. there's been a lengthy back and forth between the presidents counsel, and then it's council, over executive privilege, over whether we he was overstating matters and refusing to comply with congress and the judge has actually ruled that bannon should not have his hearing,
not have his case delayed over that matter. , katy what do you think about this? as this just sort of legal mumble jumble. steve bannon trying to run the clock or are trump and banning no longer in lockstep? >> i wouldn't say that biden and trump are no longer in lockstep because the other characters you see move out of trump's orbit and then back into the orbit and, i would hesitate to predict that. i want ice think we're seeing is pressure being put on the witnesses. we have the case against steve bannon, about whether not he should have provided information to the committee, where the just a minute departments own investigations are going, and they put a variety of a former presidents own allies. it's interesting that more and more of them are finding ways to cooperate, or you had a republican control congress during the mueller investigation, and courts that were grinding through multiple lawsuits regarding whether or not information should be
shared. we're in a spent different environment you seeing people being more forthcoming. >> so steve bannon will get his day in court. neil should we expect to see senator graham testified to the grand jury? >> yes. i think that lindsey graham said in 2016 that if we nominate donald trump will be destroyed me deserve it. i wouldn't quite say we're at the point of destruction that the arguments that lindsey graham's advance to try to block the subpoena he deserves it. this is ridiculous. he's been subpoenaed in this georgia election fraud dispute, he has material evidence and what he is saying all the speech or debate clause for the constitution forbids the prosecutor from having him to tell the story and the information that he has. that's bogus. the supreme court in 1972 said absolutely wrong this clause does not immunize a senator
from testifying about information about other people committing crimes or doesn't impugn a legislative act. last time i checked, plotting a coup is not a legislative act. this is bogus, he's going to testify, and bannon for his part i think, criminal trial next week on trying to withhold information from the american people. he will go to a criminal trial next week, he's almost certainly going to lose. and his lawyer said today after the judge's ruling, i have nothing left to defend here. so he's heading to a criminal trial and jail time. it is so interesting because this is the first time that mr. steve bannon wants to check his privilege and it turns out he doesn't have any. >> there you go. phil, before we go i want to ask about something else that many believe is bogus. president biden's approval rating. it is it 33%. but you're talking to people on the right, oh it's because
people care about january six, people care about donald trump. joe biden's approval rating doesn't mean the pete america wants donald trump. can you explain this to us? the main issue with the american voter now seems to be with economic -- and inflation. >> i mean that's a fact. trump was one of the most historically unpopular presidents. he lost the election. that's the whole reason we've been having these whole discussions about january 6th. when you look at hypothetical matchups between trump and biden in public polling, biden does beat trump in those matchups. so yes, biden's approval rating is very, very low. yes that's a problem for biden and for democrats, but know that does not mean that donald trump would necessarily defeat president biden. in fact, if the election were held tomorrow, according to most of these polls, president biden would win reelection.
>> thank you phil rucker, for that important clarification. phil katie stick around, neil thank you for joining us tonight and bringing us that. appreciate it. more on the oath keepers coming up next and the proud boys in the role they played on january 6th. were they responding to a call from the white house? or were they working on their own? and later, he had unfettered access to donald trump in the final days of his presidency. our conversation with dr. alex holder. just getting underway in this very busy monday night. getting underway in thi getting underway in thi very busy
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6th committee is expected to center on the various extremist groups that took part in the insurrection. and specifically, potential white house ties between america's most prominent right-wing militia groups, the oath keepers and the proud boys. one of bring in ryan riley, justice reporter for nbc news who's been doing excellent reporting on these organizations. katie benner and phil rucker still with us. ryan, these groups are your b. would expecting here tomorrow? i haven't heard the oath keepers of the proud boys turn on donald trump? >> no, not so far but i think we're gonna hear a lot about that overlap, because there's not that many degrees of separation between the individuals that actually tried to storm the u.s. capital,
physically take over the government on january six, and this legal effort to try to take over the election through the judiciary. so there's just not that much of a disconnect. there's ties, you don't have to play much of a game to find out who these individuals are. the latest story i wrote was about kelly and she was the general counsel for the oath keepers. during the december, 2020 she told me stewart rhodes was actually trying to get her to put him in touch with the white house. this was the time when you had the oath keepers writing letters saying they wanted to have donald trump unless them and call them up and vote the insurrection act and have the u.s. military to take over. they want to redo the elections, have the national guard to come in, have the military to be in charge of these elections. all of the sound sort of battey,
we have to remember who is bringing into the white house at that point, and how many of those individuals were really connected to the oath keepers and the proud boys and all these various efforts. it was really kind of a mess in those final months. lot of those people who are brought to the white house, we had the reference last segment to snl, a lot of those individuals were like you wish you had started a conversation with a party, pre-fringe figures out there were putting at these crazy beliefs about the election. they were getting an audience at the white house. >> let's go back to donald trump. one thing donald trump could've done was pardon these people. and he didn't. we didn't hear this from trump's inner circle. he could've pardoned them, many of them it acts who expected it hoped he did would. are they gonna turn on him because he didn't? >> phil. stuff i, don't know if they're
looking to turn on him yet necessarily. but you are right that he had the power to pardon them. he had the power to pardon anybody. we know he was sympathetic to them in some ways because he saw them as fighting for him. when my colleague carol leonnig and i interviewed trump for our book, trump said there was so much love in that crowd on january 6th that those were good people, they were loving people out there. he said he wanted what they wanted when they were going up to storm the capitol violently. he liked what they were fighting for but he did stop short of pardoning them. i think what the hearing tomorrow will try to detail is to the degree with which they were following him. the way trump's tweets and public comments were triggering so many of these proud boys and oath keepers members members to come to washington, take up
arms into violently storm the capitol is a dead january. six >> which is a reminder. if they he pardoned any those people after the fact, they can be complied to come to testify and they wouldn't be able to plead the fifth, they would have to talk. >> ryan, i know you are in court today for the hearing of steve bannon's contempt of congress trial. the judge as i mentioned earlier has refused to delay the trial. how worried should bannon be? let's be honest, for the last six years we've been saying he's in a hot water for all sorts of reasons, and he never seems to be bothered. in fact, he loves his days in court and afterwards he talks about it on the radio. >> steve bannon wasn't actually present for the hearing today and i think it was probably good form because it was a devastating day, and i don't know what he would've said if he had faced those cameras. basically the judge decided that every possible defense that he wanted to put forward isn't going to fly. it's not gonna be able to be something that will be able to be presented at the tail end of
the hearing there his lawyer made some comment that they have to decide whether or not it makes sense to go to trial. the judge said yeah they make sense to look at. this is going to be a very tough road ahead for steve bannon when he pushes through to go forward in the next seven days. i think we very well could see a plea there. that could limit his potential outcome or exposure to a prison sentence. he still has a possibility of coming out of this with perhaps probation. he really doesn't have a record to speak of so i think that still a possibility. that might be something his lawyers tell him to consider, because it's not gonna be much of a trial considering the facts that are lined up against. tim >> katie before we leave, i want to ask about the road ahead. cassidy hutchinson. obviously, her testimony was
extraordinary last week. what has it been like for her. can you explain to our audience when a person in her position has had to endure, has had to give up because she testified? >> sure, we had a speaker yesterday came online when my colleagues discussed why she chose to testify in this rushed manner. the committee and she felt that she was being threatened or cajole by allies of donald trump. they worried for her safety, they felt she knew more information in they found more information from her, it was just imperative that we get it out in the public view as soon as possible. when adam and they wanted to make sure that none of it leaked. since then, she has essentially been in hiding with her family. she is under threat and she feels like she is in danger and she has security. that is what happens when people turn on a former president, when they testify against him. this is something that is really serious. we are seeing this to some degree with other witnesses.
when the former justice department officials testified, they had protection to and from the courthouse. this is sort of an ongoing theme that has been running underneath the hearing, and liz cheney, she spoke a little bit about it when she read some of the threats that miss hutchinson was receiving. it's clearly that something is going to be ongoing especially during the last weeks of hearings and, circulating more towards donald trump. >> that's the way it is it's sad, that they tell their story in the name of justice and democracy. katie benner, phil rucker, ryan riley, thank you all. welcome to the show. thank you for joining us tonight. coming up. he said he witnessed the transformation firsthand as donald trump started to actually believe his own big fat lie. we're gonna go one-on-one with alex holder, the filmmaker unprecedented as the 11th hour continues. unprecedented as the 11th hour
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♪ call one eight hundred, eight million ♪ day that -- in our country. the people went to washington, primarily because they were angry with an election that they think was rigged. a very small portion, as you know, went down to the capitol. and then a very small portion of them went in. but, i will tell you, they were angry from the standpoint of what happened in the election. because, they are smart, and they see, and they saw what happened. >> the former president
reacting to the january 6th -- before he left the white house. that interview is part of the highly anticipated three part docuseries by british filmmaker alex holder, available now on discovery plus. the january 6th committee subpoenaed the raw footage from the documentary, and holder testified before the committee behind closed doors in june. here is a bit more from the film. >> and he said before, you didn't want to talk about -- >> yeah, let's skip to six. >> when you are telling people that a presidential election is being stolen, you can't be shocked when people believe you, and then become violence. at some point, they have to take responsibility.
>> the filmmaker behind unprecedented, alex holder, is here with me tonight. alex, talk about the greatest free pr for a documentary ever for a documentary. your footage, and, you get called by the january six committee. but did they want to see in your content? >> well, i think, this was obviously a very unusual situation, right? to have access to the incumbent president of the united states of america, and his three kids -- >>, yeah, yeah. but, what's in your footage that you have on january six or before they're most interested in. >> i think they're interested in all of it. they were -- january 6th itself, that was a war zone. and we capture these remarkable and tragic moments in a way that i think is pretty extraordinarily different at the other material that was out
there. but also, we have a contemporaneous account of what was going on in the presidents mind, a very specific moments while he was the president of the united states. i think that is obviously also very important, for the record, for history. >> then, given what you know, and you've watched the hearings, what is america missing. what don't we know about what was going on in the mind of donald trump, and his team, during the days, weeks leading up to the sixth, and the six itself. >> the truth, is i think people do know. at the end of the day, this was a president who had, since 2016, had been undermining the sanctity of the vote. he had said this in 2016, after the debate with hillary clinton, that the only way that he would accept the results of the 2016 presidential election, was, the actual, pause if i win. obviously knew that he was joking back, then he was lying, who's undermining the sanctity the vote back in 2016. however, fast forward to 2020, he then becomes somebody who believes in this lie.
and i'm sitting in a diplomatic reception room, with a guy with a nuclear football outside the room, with all of the secret service around. he's the president of united states, sitting down in the community, i and said there's no way that president biden got 80 million votes. and we need to reopen all the signature votes in voter -- four days earlier, his own ag was saying, that there is no evidence whatsoever to support his claims. this is a president who is literally talking nonsense, and is lying, but has become somebody who is detached from reality, is unable to -- >> but, he's always talked nonsense, he's always been a liar, it's he's a showman, it's when he was. do you actually believe that he believes this big lie, because you say he you witnessed a transformation. explain that for me. >> this is in fact bill barr himself said in his deposition, that donald trump became detached from reality. >> when was he attached to?
it >> i, think in this particular situation, when you're undermining democracy, under undermining the vote, that's incredibly dangerous. and that led to the events of january 6th. there's no question. he is sitting in the room with a painting of george washington looking down at him, and he is just telling me things that are absolutely outrageous, and that was a pretty tragic and scary moment. >> where were you, where were your cameras on january 6th? >> so michael, our director of photography, was inside on the steps of the capital, sort of inside the mauve, i guess, of people, all trying to basically storming get inside, they are screaming, they want to hang mike pence there coming up with all sorts of crazy conspiracy theories. these are people who have this deep sort of religious fervor, in that donald trump might actually be able to intervene in this ceremonial process and
stop the certification of the electoral college votes. >> i want to share a bit more from the documentary, really about the influence the trump path, his understanding of social media, really, watch this. >> it's a shame what twitter did and what facebook did, and it's what they do. these people are thugs. >> youtube is the latest media platform to block president shop. >> they allow other people to be on who are horrific people, i'm not a horrific person, i have a big voice, i had a voice that had hundreds of millions of people listening. >> how well did he understand his power and influence on social media, and how tragic was it for him to lose that access? >> oh, it was absolutely tragic. in fact, all tell you something that i haven't told anyone, when i interviewed him at mar-a-lago the second, time he was in a terrible mood, before he came in, one of assistance that he was in such bad mood, i said why, because he's no longer in the white house. he said is because he's off
twitter. he couldn't get over the fact that he was banned from social media, he knew how powerful that platform was for him. >> before that, did he embrace that power, maybe better than anyone else you can think of? >> i think, so yes. i think that's fair enough, absolutely. and that's why it was so hard for him to, not be able to have access to it. >> we will take a quick break, and you at home better stick around, because i have one question for the sky, how the hell did this english guy get this kind of access and his whole universe, stick around, i need to know the answer. e universe, stick around,
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disk governor documentary sisters unprecedented have access to the rare political workings of the trump campaign but also an unusual window into the trump family dynamic. >> i think i'm a very good father, something very important to me. >> my father who's not conventionally a father man in that he didn't go to our sports games. that wasn't really his thing. and he was pretty unapologetic about it. >> you can always spend time with him but it was always on his terms. we grew up with him, we were walking on the job site.
>> alex holder is still with us and still we have time for a few questions are really only have one. how in the hell did you get this kind of access to the trump family? >> i think it was a mixture of the english accent, the charm and my blue eyes. no, i think it was -- these guys thought they were gonna win the election, they thought it would be a repeat of 2016. >> nbc news would've sat down with them. they refused interviews. i think i asked ivanka trump for an interview every single day for an interview. why on earth but they give you this kind of access? >> i think it was because i wasn't american and they had this deep distrust of the american media. i think the english accent probably helped. but i was also saying that you guys have been complaining for so long for four years about the way you've been treated by the media, so look i want to talk to you --
give me this time and let's find out who you really are as people. >> how did you get access to them and did they think they would have control of. you >> know there was never a scenario where they would have control over me, the film or the editorial process. there was a precondition. i'm not interested in making a film about people who control the end result. >> what was your last communication with them? >> alas communication with them. >> you are avoiding. when was the last time you spoke with, jared kushner, ivanka trump, donald trump? >> a few months ago i would say. >> several of the other people who were called to the january 6th committee, you know were spoken to or pressured by trump allies. did trump's team reach out to you when you are speaking to the january six committee? >> i'm not gonna answer that question. because there are security concerns i gotta keep quiet on
that. >> so that's a no. comment >> that's a no comment, yes. >> interesting. you started filming them a year and a half ago. what was your goal versus what you ended up making? >> the series as got two narratives. i think in some ways we never expected in 1 million years for them to incite a riot that was upset the democratic elected terrell system. we wanted to find out who this family was, who these people, or what the dynamic between, and their interaction they have between them in the father. secondly to that, also follow the trajectory of the elect jim campaign and see with the result of that was. what we basically found out is that the only thing that matters and i hope you can watch the series and come to this conclusion, the only thing that matters is the brand. it's the brand. >> the trump brand? >> the trump brand, that's at the forefront of everything they do. it's all about making sure
trump wins at all costs. >> and they don't feel that the trump brand is tarnished, brand or destroyed in any way? >> all know, all they do is ensure that it continues to be this icon, this important, powerful thing in their minds. i think the idea that it might be tarnished or not is completely separate to the reality. >> so how did you and communications with them. when did you end filming? after he lost, that whole family thought we were we are victorious, we want? >> the kids never really separated themselves at least for me from their father's position. they may have articulated it slightly different, but at the end of the day they always support what he did. he doubled down entirely. his comparison, or his explanation as to why his father won because there were more people at his rallies that joe biden's. >> did you say to him that's not how voting works are? >> my way of dealing with these
guys is that i'm not here to change their minds or debate with them or be prosecutorial. my job is to capture what they were thinking, what they were saying in that moment and allow an audience to come to a conclusion as to what they were saying if we made sense are ridiculous. >> i know they were given all you know. to think that donald trump is it all responsible for what happened on january six? >> i think it's impossible to argue that he isn't responsible what happened on january 6th, and that he essentially said the 75 million people who voted for him that their vote didn't count. he then asked them to go to the capital. he then says onstage, they're going to march down pennsylvania avenue and fight like hell. i mean, what does anyone think is going to happen next? >> wow! alex holder, congratulations on this docuseries, this project. four weeks ago we had a very different life than it did today. i appreciate it. >> thank. you >> coming, up we're gonna
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tonight. the race to save the sequoias a. while far in yosemite national park is threatening forces largest number of sequoia trees. firefighters are working to protect the 600 sequoias that. exist they president abraham lincoln set aside the grove, along with the 70 valley nadine 64 for public use resort recreation according the park service, it was the first time the government ordered scenic for public use. >> stephanie, we wanted to get
if you look at the anatomy of what's going on here. i'm not far from what would've been the one of the businesses busiest and pieces of the park. we've got fire fighters closing in on the area, trying to burn some of these areas intentionally. they actually set this blaze 16 hours ago. the idea is to play defense, to get some of these areas burned away so that those valuable natural treasure will treasures those sequoias can be saved. some of the stories about climate change, about how the conditions are changing for the firefighters on the ground and how difficult it is making it their jobs. take a listen about what's someone in the frontline told. me >> it's making the fire season longer, and hotter, and it's making firefighters exhausted. you know we've been fighting firefighters for months already and it's july. we have many, many months to. go >> tellers any kind of containment, resources will continue to pour in and so much
of what will determine the success for these firefighters in the coming days is gonna be the conditions. unfortunately, the forecast is not good. there's a little or no chance of rain in the coming days. and the temperatures only supposed to rise. stephanie? >> thank you cal perry. let's hope the firefighters are able to protect these giant national treasures. we are thinking about the sequoias tonight in yosemite national park. on that note, i wish you a good and safe night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late with us. i will see you at the end of tomorrow. wit us i good evening chris thanks my happy to have you here. we had initially expected there would be two hearings from the january six investigation this week. now, the thursday hearing, the one we thought was going to be thursday is not going to happen. at least it's not going to happen yet, they're putting that off until some later date. we have no idea when. but the hearing tomorrow on tuesday is still on.