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tv   The Beat With Ari Melber  MSNBC  July 20, 2022 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT

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it is so hard to predict the mind of jordan. >> rated r. strohm i thank you so much for letting us into your home is during these extraordinary times. the beat with ari melber starts right now. strohm i thank you to you. we begin with breaking news. in a clear display of legal confidence that we can report tonight, the justice department is formally resting his criminal case against trump aid, steve bannon. this is a very deliberate legal strategy and we have it covered for you. they called only two witnesses or prosecutors laying out the case in just two days. that's fast, even for simple case. political josh gerstein with inside the courtroom. he's been covering all of this and has first and reporting from outside the court about all of this including the late- breaking news. he joins me in a moment in the
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segment. i'm going to tell you what else we have coming because we are tracking a separate a new criminal subpoena for trial lawyer rudy giuliani. there's also some signs of the january 6th probe is breaking through with independence and the younger tiktok crowd. michael steele will be here for a segment that we hope will be as sharp as it is viral. perhaps. tiktok reference. by the end of the hour, we will be talking bob dylan, barack obama and kurt cobain with the right icon you see. the one and only dave grown on the beat tonight for our special mavericks interview. you might say the energy is contagious. here we are now. entertain us. but it's too early in the broadcast for lyrics. even for the beat. so let's just get to this top story. judgment day for steve bannon. the prosecution resting after calling the witnesses that they say will prove this and send him to prison.
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we will get into this with mr. gerstein as i mentioned but there is a method to the speed of the doj prosecutors. they are conveying to these jurors that this is a complex case the only two witnesses to prove it. one was the fbi agent who spoke out today and shredded what may have been one abandons only defense is if you're following the facts. is the claim that we reported on last night. bannon's lawyers say that benin wanted to cooperate and this was somehow a misunderstanding. well, today, this agent who i can now report is half of the entire witness block of the prosecutors, this agent said under oath that benin's lawyer was informed of the deadline for the subpoena the whole time and never even claimed or mentioned that he or his client were confused about it. so that's what the defense had to deal with. it backs up testimony that congress officially warned bannon which we know he went ahead and did. prosecutors are pushing evidence that bannon knew what
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he was getting into, while his defend was pushing questions like this about whether congress had asked former president trump to explore getting rid of executive privilege and that drew this reply in court. the answer is no. the assumption of your question directed to the bannon side. the president had exerted privilege is not accurate. no privilege, no excuse, and no confusion about the law that bannon was breaking. that is the doj's argument urbana speaking out on the court steps again today making the odd claim about who gets to talk and who is being forced into silence. i will address this on the other side of this. >> the financial times of london, everybody on the city of london, wall street, the multinational corporations, they are trying to shut me up. they will never shut me up and
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never shut me down. >> the man indicted for refusing to talk now says other people are trying to shut him up. to silence him. now, as a factual matter, mr. bannon could have talked and testified like other witnesses. had he faced congress which is what he's legally required to, is not supposed to be a choice, had he done that i walked out to the press conference to do interviews, they would be covered. he is one of the last people in the world who can claim that he doesn't have access to be heard, amplified platforms. by the way, his colleagues have talked under oath and on tv and even on this program. the only person who muffled bannon is bending. which is why some legal experts think his current defense is an uphill battle and maybe white the doj is taking this bold , bullish strategy to tell the jurors there's not much to see here. doesn't take long to explain. no make up your mind.
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as promised, we ari melber really the perfect guest we can get. josh gerstein, legal affairs reporter for politico . he has had many scoops in a stay if you're watching the news. you have probably washed them on the news before. today we've been covering this from inside the courtroom today. welcome to the beat, serve. >> reporter: hey ari, good to be back with you. >> tell us about resting the case this faster how did this play out in the room? >> reporter: it was pretty abrupt, the fbi witness stephen hart was on the stand i would say, for only 15 or 20 minutes on me. he was second prosecution witness and after a very brief examination and cross- examination, a couple of questions about a proper session. bannon's attorney made where there didn't seem to be any mention that bannon didn't know there was a deadline or was looking for an extension. they posted a couple of gutter
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postings from bannon's getter account that showed him boasting about not complying with the subpoena and after a little bit of cross- examination, that was about it. and one of the prosecutors stood up and said the government rests. so we are going to go tomorrow morning with for some motions and perhaps you will see a defense case or not. but i think most of us were pretty surprised. definitely a sign, as you say, that the prosecution is confident that they can persuade the jury this is very simple. mr. bannon was subpoenaed. he didn't show up and he has delivered zero documents to the committee for many, many categories of documents they have asked for. >> you have covered a lot of legal issues in your day, sir. could you glean any reaction from the judge, the jury for mr. bennett himself went abruptly, as you said, the prosecutor said we rest?
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>> reporter: i don't think they were that surprised that the prosecution had indicated that it really didn't plan more than maybe two or three witnesses total all along. they've always been saying this is a very simple case. bannon was upset a little bit earlier in the government's case when there was discussion about this meeting his lawyer had. he seemed to feel it was dirty pool for an fbi agent to be testifying about his lawyer's meeting with prosecutors from the u.s. attorney's office and what he said and what he didn't say. but the judge allowed the testimony. i could see that bannon was shaking his head. he was turning a little red in the courtroom, but within minutes, he was out on the steps doing his thing once again. not showing he'd been knocked off his stride at all. >> you're someone who has that front row seat. you see the difference between that brash presentation we are getting day after day in the newspapers and what have you, and what's happening in court. as i will remind viewers, the federal court rules do not allow cameras in court, so we have the sketches, we have you. it sounds like is a smart
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defendant, he may have known reaction in real-time to what had been said. the parts of this case that were back and forth with very limited. we read one here in the opening news about the fact that they didn't have privilege. that seemed to get shot down. i want to read from your reporting about another little moment where you say that some of the questions verged on the quote absurd. one witness said you read nonfiction? i believe it was a cross examiner bannon's lawyer. is it accurate to say most of the members of your book club work together as democratic staff or one of the committees? it went on like that. since you reported it, walk us through what that little absurdity was, but also what i suppose it may convey about the limits or the thin read that the defense, their questions are built on right now? >> reporter: right, ari, the defense is trying to suggest that because one time christian
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amer link who's the chief counsel for the january 6 committee has been part of a book club that's been going for a decade and a half here in washington with some other staffers from democratic committees on the hill. one of whom also is the prosecutor on this case currently and has been a prosecutor for several years here. she says she doesn't know the prosecutor well, but they do happen to be members of the same book club and we saw the defense devote some time to that issue. today, trying to suggest there was a democratic vendetta. i do think that bannon has a little better chance than people are suggesting because the lawyers have been pretty skillful at back during in many of the theories of the judge has ruled out as legal defense. so executive privilege is not a legal defense for bannon at this trial, but the jury learned about the claims of executive privilege. the fact that bannon offered a couple of weeks ago to come in and testify in a confusing and conditional kind of offer is not a defense for the charges
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in this case. yesterday, the jury learned about bannon's offer to come in and testify. so the defense has been, as we say, fairly successful in letting the jurors know about the argument that the judge may tell the jury to disregard. of course, we never know in the final analysis whether one or two jurors might latch onto one of those things and perhaps refuse to convict for that reason. >> josh, i hope people are listening closely because we can't predict anything in this business, but we know we will be covering the end of this case. whether that's a conviction, a not guilty verdict or a mistrial that we will cover the end of it. if it's short of a conviction, it may very well be for the reason you just said. the judge will tell legally, the jurors, that all of that last minute talk about, maybe i will come and if it's like that maybe i will come and if it's prime time. not legally significant offers as we have covered. but if they get that in, one or two jurors get confused about
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that or even though the judge says is not a defense. if they think that and it sways them as the rule is, reasonable doubt in their mind, that could make a big difference. i appreciate you pointing out all of the sides of the case you're tonight for our coverage. thank you. mx things, ari. happy to do it. strike there's a lot going on. rudy juliano just hit with a new criminal subpoena and our own michael steele is here after our shortest break today. we are back with michael in 60 seconds. seconds. bakin', shreddin'. slicin', dicin', spicin', ricin'. pnc bank. see how we can make a difference for you. >> slice and dice and shred. fry and savor. aside of panini.
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craft singles. >> you know what i say to all the other titans of tech were making such a fuss of launching themselves into space? welcome to the club. i've been putting people into spaces for years. millions of people into millions of spaces and that must be why apartments.com is the center of the universe. tippy tippy toe. to be tippy toe. that's a big turkey. wait a minute. there's one going up now. how many of these guys are there? >> apartments .com. the place to find a place. our show continues live. michael steele is here and we turn it escalation into at the georgia program george's formerly ordering rudi giuliani to testify to this grand jury. prosecutors say there is evidence giuliani was part of a coordinated plan to influence the results. the grand jury has been looking at this and how we faced
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legislators. what one lawmaker describes to us earlier this month. >> it was surreal. you walk in and there is rudy giuliani literally googling who is john eastman when he pops up. he is purported to be giving expert testimony along with the georgia constitution and georgia law, and the man isn't even a georgia lawyer. >> michael, your thoughts. >> it kind of sums the whole game up. rudy played a particular role for donald trump. he was, if nothing else, the great disruptor. he was the guy who was sent into sort of create the chaos, to raise the questions, to stir the anxieties of the established order and to excite the base as best they could. there was no legal pretense that donald trump was being represented by rudy giuliani, even though they are trying to claim privilege here and
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attorney-client relationship there. by the reality of it is that clip right there tells you everything you need to know. he was sent in to do a thing, without knowing who the other players who were also a part of this narrative were sent to do. but he didn't have to. and i think what is interesting about the georgia case which i believe may be a little bit problematic for someone like lindsey graham is the connective tissue in the narrative. the language used. the questions that were inquired upon. lindsay says it's my duty to inquire about how these elections are run. when you ask the same questions that rudy giuliani and others who are trying to overturn the selection rusting. so there's a lot of connective tissue here and at the center of that tissue is not just trump, but for someone like rudy giuliani he was there to pull the extra strings that needed to be pulled. >> it all makes sense. michael, you and i have talked about this on air and off, the
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way the instructor hearing is breaking through. there's an old expression, some people have heard of it. it's called we'll talk when you get real. but there's a new school expression and i know you're pretty hit. people can make up their own minds. but that's real talk, t okay because a lot of people are using tiktok and other social media to share their reactions. i would say twitter is like for media and political junkies and that's fine. what you see on facebook and now tiktok is a lot of the rest of the nation. that's why you can buy everything. it's real what's going on in schools, community centers, sports. people's reactions to things. recipes. we have actually done a little bit of reporting to look at what people are saying because there's this emerging consensus here in the reporting and in trump's orbit that the drip of revelation has some republicans just getting tired of trumpeter we have seen pulling that independents have paid attention to these hearings and here's a sampling of what regular americans are saying
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around the nation a posting online about. take a look. >> it is riveting. it is terrifying. it is in reaching. it is sickening and everyone of us needs to watch it. >> we are having hearings about a sitting president who attempted to overthrow the united states of america. >> people don't try to go hang someone with their selfie sticks. >> cassidy hutchinson and her testimony blew the roof of the investigation. >> to hear giuliani say they were passing ballots back and forth like cocaine and heroin made me want to vomit. he is vile, racist and disgusting, and so is trump. >> these are witchhunts, witch trials, it's just pomp and circumstance. sumac trump, you're going down, dude. >> michael, you see these hearings breaking through and use our reactions from people both reacting to the evidence as it was presented and some pushing back. you see going into the final
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and how this is reaching people? >> what it says to me is how much these hearings have captured the conversation for people. how much people are willing to express. you are not hearing people say oh my god, this is a witchhunt. this is a waste of time. i'm sure in certain environments, that's there. certainly being pushed from trump supporters. but mainstream america which often gets reflected in these other types of outlets on social media like tiktok and facebook, they are expressing real reaction to what they are hearing and seeing. so it tells me that the committee has done a very good job of framing this conversation , not in a political context or way, but in a very open way which you take the information, you observe it and draw your own conclusions as to what you're hearing. with the conclusion that a lot of americans are drawing as they continue to watch this and it's rather episodic, is , right? everyone is walking around and i've talking to people who said
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i just can't believe this. so that is going to be very important and i think this committee should go right to january 3rd. i think they could should go right up until when the next congress comes in, get to the elections of see whether the republicans have control of the house. because if they don't, you can continue some of that work if you feel you're up against a wall. if they do have control, then you know you you got a window of about six to eight weeks to ramp it down but you will already not for the pressure on yourself to shut it down in august or september. but really americans want as much information as they can get because they want to know what happened. that's something the republicans can't control at this point. >> you really lay it out. that makes sense and we are seeing and all the different ways that we can measure it, people summoned and summoned to look at the evidence. i will continue of course tomorrow night. michael steele, good to have you, sir. >> i thought you were going to
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do another tiktok, but we won't go there. >> i think i know the when you're speaking of. if people want to know what michael is talking about, you will have to go by the end of the hour, where to find all the tick talks. what's coming up. the indicted trump aid peter navarro is actually filling in for the other indicted trump aid, mr. bannon while he's on trial. we will explain the significant part of why that matters because of former navarro ages testify to the committee. and later we will hear the rock 'n roll icon dave grohl on everything from nirvana to why he sat down with barack obama and heard about his passion for music. >> he was a huge musical influence to me. he was somebody who reminded me of how powerful the american story can be told. told. >> why hide your skin?
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we strip away everything but the essential and what we are left with our thoughtful bedrooms for modern living. zuma. if you are an indicted trump aid going on trial, if you have a podcast, who fills in for you when you're gone? i know it may seem like a smaller news question, but we do have the answer with steve bannon in court for a trial work prosecutors were today. the person filling in for him is the other indicted trump aid awaiting trial for former white house adviser peter navarro. who is facing a trial for the same type of charges.
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hiding evidence. dividing the committee. he's out there filling in for his coat and i.t., if you will, and also attacking the committee. >> peter navarro sitting in for stephen k bannon today. with this kangaroo committee is doing in their investigation is handing out unlawful subpoenas and seven of the nine members, democrats, essentially participated in a coup d'etat. >> who disagrees with mr. navarro? virtually every one of his former colleagues. donald trump's own children who all cooperated. and mr. navarro's own former white house aide , garrett ziegler. he just went in, meaning he did not defied. he exercised his constitutional right and we mentioned this, then you have the right to do
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this. he took the fifth over 100 times, that he also went out on his a form of media, on the telegram to talk about it. >> if they have a problem with me, they have a problem. they probably do hate me. and most white people in general. this is an antiwhite campaign. >> mr. ziegler may have some very offensive and incorrect views that this is america and he has a right to share the. he also has the right to plead the fifth. what he doesn't have the right to do is defy subpoenas. something he and his boss still disagree on. we'll take king a break but when we come back, we have a lot planned for you including barack obama on culture. art with a very special guest. coming up next, i want to share with you something very important to us here on the beach. it's about justice. it's about change and in a time of so much hopelessness, it's about hope.
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it's something i've written for you and i will share it with you next. >> i am robert strickler. i've been involved in communications in the media for 45 years. -taking prevajen on a regular basis for at least eight years. for me, the greatest benefit over the years has been that prevajen seems to help me recall things and also think more clearly. and i enthusiastically recommend privilege and. it's help me an awful lot. >> prevajen, healthier brain and better life. >> there's a highway. stretching across the 93 days of summer. to the smoking tire. the s curve. and the spin turn. for the lines being blurred. the line between driver and demons.
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>> that bed makes for bad backs. during mattress firm's black friday sale, save up to $600 on top brands and get a free adjustable base with qualifying sealy purchase. shot now at mattress firm. seam slice and dice and spice and dice. seen this ad? it's not paid for by california tribes. it's paid for by the out of state gambling corporations that wrote prop 27. it doesn't tell you 90% of the profits go to the out of state corporations. a tiny share goes to the homeless, and even less to tribes. and a big loophole says, costs to promote betting reduce money for the tribes, so they get less. hidden agendas. fine print.
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loopholes. prop 27. they didn't write it for the tribes or the homeless. they wrote it for themselves. turning to something important we want to share with you. this pandemic has affected virtually every part of government, including prisons and sparked a rethinking of why so many people are locked up for so long. an issue many reformers have pushed for decades. by the pandemic drove action like this. over the span of a few months in 2020, governments released 200,000 inmates earlier than
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scheduled because of covid. including prominent figures ranging from trumpets, paul manafort and michael cohen. to the controversial artist turned informant who got out early even with the racketeering conviction. violent convicts were not generally released. the pandemic does not get you out of a life sentence. s works on criminal justice say this whole experiment goes beyond the pandemic, civil rights protesters and others have long argued. if this kind of health emergency pushed states to admit there was no public health risk to letting some people out, then why not continue rethinking america's harsh prison policies? remember, the u.s. is some of the longest, harshest sentences in the world. 10 times other democracies like the netherlands and those are just statistics. then there are people. harsh policies that discriminate against minorities and are affecting real people.
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government is claiming public safety can end up clashing with the larger issue here. they can cause more danger than the charges they are supposed to address with the prison policies. let me give you an example. take this innocent 22-year-old never convicted of anything. he was legally innocent in the eyes of the system. he was awaiting trial, but was held for two years in solitary confinement. then died in a jail at rikers and reported suicide. now, what crime was he charged with? while still legally innocent? what was he waiting trial for? stealing a backpack. the prison system held him for longer before trial the likely punishment for that petty offense of stealing a backpack. that was overseen by democrats in new york. down in mississippi, republicans run one of the most notorious, dangerous and discriminatory prisons in the world. 10 inmates have been killed
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there. 12 dying by suicide in just the last two years alone. prisoners living conditions that violate human rights. completely out of control violence. abusive solitary confinement for months at a time which is a type of torture. if any of this sounds familiar, it's the same prison that old school jim crow politicians were using to terrorize the freedom riders. remember them? advocating just basic racial equality all the way back to 1961. they held carmichael there. advocates have protested this prison for a long time. >> we are here because we are sick and tired of state sanctioned murder. >> 18 inmates have died in mississippi prison systems since the end of december. 10 of them at the state penitentiary. >> we have inmates sitting in the dark. sitting in water. roaches and mice. >> you wouldn't accept it for animals. >> no human being is supposed to do liver and they are
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supposed to die like they died. >> they are murdering our babies, our husbands, our wives, our children. >> the justice department is not investigating the state's prison. >> in mississippi today, the doj for condemning the prison. >> shut it down now. >> hopefully a road map is created that will make this prison more safe. >> we are going to start tomorrow. we are going to free our men. god bless. >> free everyone and freedom we know can be a long time coming. we have covered this very prison here on this program, including the lawsuits the document human rights abuses backed by artists like r.o.t. nation.
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>> trying to make sure everyone gets treated like humans and that these prisons are not inhumane conditions. i understand the people in prison are here and everybody wants their brother, mother or father to be treated as such. >> still human. fact check, true. literally. the constitution requires humane conditions and human rights people in prison. all this pressure you see here is actually working. let me tell you how. this garland justice department actually found human rights abuse in an investigation to put formal legal pressure on the prison to change fast or be taken to court. the doj detailing savage conditions, torture, abuse and deprivation. as well as legal and illegal temperatures of the units that were reaching 140 degrees in temperature.
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that's leading to action like the headline just this week. the prison is adding air conditioning units after century of scalding summers. the doj also securing a conviction of a warden at that same prison for assaulting an inmate in trying to cover it up. he awaits sentencing in september. so there is some real measurable change. at least where there are facts and pressure. that brings us to what i also wanted you to know. i will be moderating a panel on this very prison at a justice summit this saturday. gathering that includes house democratic caucus chair hakeem jeffries and our panel on saturday includes the person you just heard talking about the lawsuit. cheryl harrison and other reformers. you can join us in new york and register now for free at united justice coalition .com/you jc summit. you see that link there. or even easier, go to the beach with ari twitter page. that's this saturday at 12:30 p.m.
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in manhattan. go to the link on your screen or the cup the beat twitter. the beat with ari on twitter. it will be on there for the next several days. if you want to join us, we think this is a worthwhile conversation to have. thank you for listening. thank you for caring. let's take a break and then return to why barack obama says we can learn about america from bob dylan. stay with us. us. in a recent clinical study, patients using salonpas patch reported reductions in pain severity, using less or a lot less oral pain medicines. >> in a recent clinical study, patients using the patch reported reductions in pain severity. using a lot less medicine. that's why we recommend celonpas. it's good medicine.
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so barack obama, bob dylan and dave grohl walk into a bar. it might sound like a dream trio, but the former president, the folk icon and foo fighters and nirvana rocker dave grohl to have much in common. dave grohl talk directly with obama about bob dylan's influence in broadening the american story as part of a documentary. we actually caught up with mr. grohl with our maverick series. naturally, obama and dylan were a good place to start. going to share with you part of our conversation airing out for the first time. >> you say music is unifying. you discuss that with the big bob dylan fan named barack obama. since you brought up unity, really, just a really cool condo . i will play a bit of what he said to you about dylan. >> he was a huge musical influence to me. he was somebody who reminded me
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of how powerful the american story can be told through music. it's about people rejecting what is already there to try to create something entirely new. kids are always going to come up with something that you haven't heard before. was also nice though is how there is a connection. all these different musical rivers run together to make american music. there's nothing more unifying in this country. then our music. >> that was pretty cool. >> i don't know if it was that trip to the white house. i've been there a couple of times for events and stuff like that. i was wandering around downstairs and i went into the little library downstairs and i was looking around at the books. i was living through and found a book that was a complete anthology of bob dylan lyrics in the little library in the
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white house. in that moment, i thought okay. there's hope. >> as far out and time seems to play some role there because some of the voices, whether it's the civil rights leaders or artists that are treated as really quote unquote, out there in their time, can become part of the canon and become the iconic spiritual and moral leaders. everyone seems to think politically. i want to read a couple of lyrics because we do that around here and have you free associate. hook me up a new revolution because this one is a lie. we sat around laughing and watched the last one die. >> well, i believe in progress and i believe in change. since i was young, listening to the albums i listen to. whether they were classic rock records, there seems to be this thread through all of them that
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we have to sort of -- we have to make progress and change and evolve as the world does. so when i write those lyrics, i'm usually most inspired at a crossroads. the weight of that moment, trying to decide how to move forward. a song like times like these, i wrote that song, times like these, like 20 years ago and that was at a personal crossroads where it's time to sort of learn to live again. and time to give and give again. and recently in this past year, that song has taken on a whole new meaning. it applies to things today, and i think more than anything, when i'm singing about something personal that's inspired by the world around me, becomes universal, so that
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maybe everyone can feel not necessarily what i'm feeling, but feel the same. >> a person can feel universal and art. he navigated his personal experience with rockstar fame and tragedy as nirvana's drummer in the 90s era pushed back and whether that rebellious band somehow sold out. >> i mean everybody crucified spans when they signed to a major after an independent because they immediately think big sellout. big cars. fast. if somebody asked us are we anti-big-money band or anti-big bucks band, what kind of question is that? what if donald trump wrote a good song. you wouldn't listen to it? >> what do you think? >> first of all, i don't know
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if i hit puberty yet. listen to my voice. what the heck was that all about? i think that, of course, we did have this level of ambition, but man, the bar was really low. like honestly. at that point, we were living in this tiny apartment and living off of three corndogs a day that were $.99 at the gas station. i think all we wanted was that we didn't get evicted at that point. i always remember this one time when we were going around to record companies who wanted to sign the van. we were sitting in this high rise office in new york city with his record executive, and he said, well, what do you guys want? and kurt said, we want to be the biggest band in the world. and i thought he was joking.
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it wasn't where music was. it was mariah carey and michael bolton. like there's just no way that that was going to happen. but like i said, kurt's songs were so good that they were appreciated by millions and millions of people. it drove us into kind of a difficult place. painted us in this corner that was hard to get out of. but still, to this day, those songs mean so much to so many people. >> certainly true. it was reflected in what he learned from cobain's untimely death. we taped to this interview before foo fighter's drummer taylor hawkins died. grohl and the band were in morning then. but then we also got into his creative relationship with cobain and the role of drummers and rock 'n roll. >> people to this day look at it and think about what nirvana meant, and we know the rest of
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your story. i think it's natural for fans or people appreciating these individuals. they wonder what could have been if a few things when different or this person lived on. you. let's take a look. d on. you. >> dave came up with the drum beat and we built the song off of the drum and the riff. >> he came off of the drum beat and showed meet riff, and it was really simple, and we thought this could work. it turned out great, and now i'm excited about it because now we can write together even more. >>ur thoughts and creatively you were already doing what people know you to do which is to like do everything. >> it always takes me back to that famous drummer joke. what was the last thing the drummer said before he got kicked out of the band? hey, guys, i have a song i think we should play. >> now, i don't know that one, but that makes a lot of sense as a band joke. i mean, listen, in that band i
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loved being the drummer. i loved being in the engine room, the roaring noise behind these two brilliant people, and i was perfectly comfortable with that. i had a studio in my basement, and i would go down into my basement, record songs really just for me, like an experiment, some sort of creative outlet where i would play guitar and bass and drums and sipping and they were fully formed songs, but in nirvana i was perfectly happy being the drummer in nirvana. it was a great, great band to be the drummer of. i did show kurt my songs sometimes but, you know, it's not -- it's not easy to show one of the greatest songwriters of our generation your silly demo you did in your basement so i kind of kept it to myself, you know. >> that's part of what grohl told us, and, of course, there's
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kind of an inspiration here for most of us who love mousse in. you think how do you do any of it? mr. grohl, of course, started out in that role of drummer but millions of people literally around the world know him as the front man with foo fighters with many fans who were not even born when nirvana ended so you learn about him about that daunting creativity, the inspiration, but the way he's played more than one role and done that again because nowadays he makes documentaries and writes books so he was a perfect inspiration for what we tried to do when we share this maverick series which is share and learn from people who are creative and inspire because anyone can take something from music whether you want to listen to it, party with it, dance to it or make it yourself. i do really think that apart from talent which mr. grohl has and say i don't in music, we can still learn something from how people approach creativity. let me share with you one more piece of this, highlights from the interview. >> it's easy to get addicted to accomplishment. you try to challenge yourself,
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and once you achieve, that you get a good like 24 hours of satisfaction, and then it's gone. if i write something and i can't remember it the next day, then it's not worth doing. now millions of people are singing your songs. what do you do? >> how do you do the kind of success that came with nirvana? >> we don't need anybody else and we can survive in our little underground scene because it's our secret. when you play a song that everybody sings along to, that's a huge energy, that's a great moment. that was a huge moment for me. it changed my life. have you to kind of remind yourself the reasons why you started in the first place. you have to remind yourself of the kid on the bedroom floor with the beatles records. i'm not sure that i can do any of these things, and that's why i do them. >> that's what he does it. everything i just shared with you is airing for the very first time as we put our time into preparing these interviews for you, but the entire interview is
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also available. it's now out for the first time today. this is, as i've told you, part of our "mavericks" seer, conversations with musicians, artists and cultural icons, and can you see this one here as you see on your screen at msnbc.com/mavericks. msnbc.com/mavericks or the qr code that's on your screen. we'll leave this up for a second. point your phone like it like a menu dine out during covid it with easily bring up the link. there you can see the whole dave grohl interview. up more thought. go on search, mel bob and grohl on youtube where you'll find this interview and our other "mavericks interviews including phoebe bridges and annie lennox. we love doing this series. we'll be right back. e doing thi.
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tonight, including some about law and justice and more than one domain, an one of the headlines i shared with you, we will put back up. i mentioned in our prison report, an area where it feels like nothing ever changes and yet this justice department under attorney general garland just secured a rare conviction afterwarden for assaulting a warden at the inmate at the notorious prison we did our report on. everyone deserves their day in court, someone serving in a prison or someone accused of wrongdoing who might be working there, but it is very rare and a sign of how sometimes facts and scrutiny matters. it relates to what you also see on your screen which is if you're in or near new york join us this weekend at the united justice coalition summit. you can see on your screen just some of the people who will be there, democrat leader hakeem jeffries, michael eric dyson, the attorney general of new york and many more. one panel including the one i'll
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be moderating on prison reform on the middle of the day's events on saturday, around 12:30 p.m. that's in manhattan. rsvp at "the beat" with ari link on your screen. thanks for watching "the beat." that does it for us. "the reidout" with joy reid is up next. for us. "the reidout" with joy reid is ♪♪ tonight on "the reidout" -- >> i mean, i saw friends with blood all over their faces. i was slipping in people's blood. it was carnage. it was chaos. never in my wildest dreams did i think that as a police officer, as a law enforcement officer i would find myself in the middle of a battle. >> the january 6th hearings began with chilling personal stories from the people caught in the middle of the insurrection. then we learned in great detail how trump himself caused it,

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