tv Katy Tur Reports MSNBC July 25, 2022 11:00am-12:01pm PDT
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want change. on the right we see growing evidence of a republican establishment souring on donald trump. two of rupert murdoch's flagship publications, the new york post and wall street journal published articles, including a brutal takedown head lined "the president who stood still on january 6th." and he's rapidly losing ground to florida governor ron desantis who in speeches is sounding a lot more like he's running. >> i can tell you this, i'll be standing my ground. i'll be walking that line. we've accomplished an awful lot in the state of florida, but we have only begun to fight because we are on a mission to keep the state of florida free and to save our great country! >> we're seeing a similar pattern on the left, too, with a
party base that polls suggests is looking past president biden in favor of a new face for the party. and a number of politicians are clearly making moves to set up a run, either just in case biden doesn't or maybe whether he does or not. for more in all of this, let's bring in cornell belcher, meredith mcgraw, and former florida gop congressman carlos carbello who is an msnbc political analyst. might it have an impact that's different from what we've seen before? >> that's a really good question and point. we tend to keep having change elections, right? in 2008 we had a change election, too, and every
election cycle seems to be a change. when you look underneath the ideals of change when the electorate goes back and forth, you have a very divided america. fairly evenly split, though barack obama and joe biden did win majorities but a fairly split america. you see two different visions of america. one, quite frankly, a lot more diverse and a lot younger fighting what their older, less diverse electorate for who is going to control the future of this country. those jolts and geographic divides is why you have the wild swings back and forth. you have politics on the left and the right that's a lot hotter and a lot more polarized than it was a decade ago.
>> your latest story is about trump's return to d.c. tomorrow. it's the first time he's going to be back since he left even before the inauguration, right? he has a group of supporters who are plotting a kind of much longer term return. who are these folks and what are they doing? >> well, tomorrow the former president is speaking here in d.c. at the america first policy institute's annual policy summit. now, this was a nonprofit think tank that was formed by a bunch of former senior trump officials and cabinet members, people like larry kudlow, linda mcmahon from the small business administration and they have joined together to create this think tank that is promoting america first policies. trump is expected to speak about one particular plank.
but some think this is an opportunity for trump to talk about something more forward looking than the 2020 election. >> this is the kind of thing that is making so many republicans nervous right now. it may be part of what's behind, we see in the polls, ron desantis gaining ground on trump, but can he or any republican surpass him? what do you think you're seeing and hearing on the ground right now? >> well, chris, i think your point about this being an electorate in total flux is correct. i mean, we've heard about change elections for a long time, but what it really seems like voters across the spectrum are asking for is generational change. they want a clean slate, we're seeing working class voters move to the republican party, college educated voters move to the democratic party, hispanics
really starting to split their vote fairly evenly. this is an electorate in full flux. for a long time it was thought impossible for anyone to actually compete against donald trump in the republican primary. ron desantis is looking to change that script and so far he's having some success. i can tell you there's a lot of excitement here in florida for a potential desantis candidacy. >> so, carlos, obviously he's not the only one. one of the interesting reports we saw over the weekend was that mike pence behind closed doors got a lot of applause from conservative republicans, he got a lot of applause from congressional republicans. they thanked him for what he did on january 6th. many of them said privately among themselves it's reported that they were glad he came actually with a plan for how the republican party should run forward looking, not backward
looking. but again, that's behind closed doors. so does it really point to any kind of change? >> well, that's the problem, chris. republicans will say things in private that they dare not say in public, at least most of them. they're fearful. they are still worried about donald trump's influence in republican primaries. so i really think that what you're going to see out of the republican primary in 2024 and of course that process will start much earlier, is which is a candidate that can keep together the trump coalition, those trump supporters and promise a better way forward? it's a very, very difficult line to walk but that's the path that republicans have chosen these days because they do not want to publicly confront all of the lies and the dishonesty and the destruction that has been donald trump. >> and cornell, among democrats,
not surprisingly, there are some who think joe biden hasn't done enough. others think he's gone too far or pushed too far. but the key question here really is, you look at his poll numbers and even among democrats. can he somehow over the wours of a new year -- or does he even have a year? if you're thinking about running against an incumbent president, you're probably going to start gearing up before a year from now, right? >> you will if you're dumb enough to consider running against an incumbent president. the history of running against an incumbent president does not bode well for you. but i want to put one big caveat on the polling this far out from presidential elections or even primaries. they are notoriously misleading.
a lot of times the front-runners early on in these things have not gone on. i've been here before. there were chirps about barack obama, a lot of people saying barack obama should not win for reelection. barack obama won two back-to-back majority elections. i think it was ray weigh to early. the narrative of a presidential is different from the narrative of a congressional. and in and inflation will be in shape, the pandemic will be in our rear view mirror and weir going to be building road ond. most of the chirping you hear from biden are people from his
coalition, particularly younger voters who want more aggressive action on a but it's not biden who is blocking that. we need two more democratic senators in the united states senate. >> you can make the argument is about frankly, they look at him and say he's 79. already the oldest president would be in his 80s in a second term. so there's more to that, i think, than just young people looking at him and saying, well, he hasn't done enough about some of these issues, right? >> well, let's be clear. you know, a lot of young people fell in love with bernie sanders. bernie sanders was not necessarily a spring chicken. so i think it is about issues. i think a lot of it really is about issues and who they see fighting. if they see an older candidate fighting hard for what they.
>> i don't know. i think that made sense to me. let's talk about some of the other folks who have been looked at at po tensely set we've talked on this program about gavin newsom of california. gavin newsom is running ads in your state, in florida. do you look at them and say, well, they're smart, they're setting themselves up in case biden doesn't run for reelection, which he says he's going to do? or do you think that cornel is right, if that are, even if he decides to run for reelection. >> well, look, i see a big opportunity for democrats that aspire to become president to run in 2024. i don't know for sure what joe biden is going to do, but without question, there are a lot of question marks about what he's going to do and there are a lot of people in the party that are calling for someone else.
i do think, however, chris, that if biden doesn't run, democrats will probably nominate someone we're not even thinking about these days, maybe like a bill clinton type that comes out of nowhere, a small state governor, maybe even a mayor. again, something just totally different, outside of the political mainstream because that's really what the electorate is calling for these days. they want a change but not just from one party to another. they kind of want to reset american politics and that presents a big opportunity for people who are not on the radar right now on both sides. >> i'm curious and i should also mention that people say look at kamala harris, she's traveling around the country, talking about abortion, taking the lead on that discussion, setting herself up in case. that aside, from your discussions with republicans, is there a sense that they'd rather biden given the polls? what are you hearing on the republican side about the potential for whoever the democratic challenger might be?
>> well, i did just see a recent poll that asked potential voters about their preference between biden versus trump or harris versus trump and in both of them, those people polled picked biden and harris but just by a small margin. i'm glad the colonel pointed out that right now with polling, it is still so far out and things change so much but i do think republicans see an advantage if kamala harris were to run. certainly the economy right now and immigration, which she was charged with leading, they see that as a major weakness of this administration and it's going to be a big focal point for republicans going into the mid terms. and moving forward into 2024 as well. >> meredith mcgraw, former congressman carlos kru curbelo,
thank you very much. >> and is this change in our environment enough to change sentiment and create action? and i'll talk to the doctor who gave a 10-year-old ohio girl an abortion. stay with us. you're watching msnbc. h us h us you're watching msnbc. announcer: ozempic® provides powerful a1c reduction. in studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. ozempic® lowers the se weight adults lost up to 14 pounds.
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includes video of trump trying to eliminate key phrases from his address. lauria keeping his eye on the justice department at the same time. adam kinzinger is another. he was on the program a couple of hours ago. >> if there is not criminality in that, understanding an attempt to overthrow the government was occurring, doing nothing, behind-the-scenes communication, some of the stuff we're seeing out of georgia, then i don't know what is breaking the law. >> i want to bring in peter baker, correspondent for the "new york times" and former federal prosecutor and nbc legal and lust cynthia oxney. this committee has been very strategic. it does seem like they're out
there a lot these couple of days. this tweet from elaine laura the latest with this video. are we going to see them or hear from them on a daily or near-daily basis putting out information until these hearings resume? >> i don't know that it will be daily but i think they've made it clear they're not done, they still have more to tell the american public and they plan to be very vocal about it. they have the august recess and they plan to resume hearings in september in the thick of a mid-term election campaign. so they're planning to be a presence in our conversation, our national conversation for weeks and perhaps months to come. >> and part of the conversation, messaging right to the d.o.j. it seems like their message is getting stronger and stronger. i wonder what you make of that. >> i think that's exactly right. they've got a message for merrick garland. they're saying the materials are there, the evidence is there.
obviously it's not for the congress to tell the attorney general what to do but the urging is pretty clear. they think there's a criminal case to be made here, that they will debate whether to have a formal criminal referral of the president or any of his people later on. they don't really shy away from, adam kinzinger and cheney aren't shying away that they think the former president of the united states violated the law in seeking to overturn a democratic election and do something about it. that doesn't mean merrick is going to respond. he has a different mission than members of congress and has to satisfy different standards of evidence and other considerations taken into account. clearly the pressure has been imcreased on him the last six weeks. >> cynthia, when you hear him say things like "no one is above the law," do you hear someone who is just careful and cautious
or someone sending a message you just wait, we're on top of this. >> let's just say peter is nicer than i am. >> peter is nicer than almost anyone i know. >> we knew that already but now it's confirmed. i see someone who is really just pushing back. we all know that he's going to say that. it's a stalling tactic, quite frankly, in my mind. we know no one is above the law and it's time for him to open a wide ranging grand jury investigation as demonstrated by this entire january 6th process. look, when you don't have an open wide ranging grand jury investigation that includes all the different conspiracies that are involved, there is -- it harms the entire big case. for example, today in georgia we have a perfect example of this. the d.a. in georgia has sent out target letters to 16 people. now, by the time the d.o.j. gets moving and goes to interview those people, guess what?
they're not talking to the d.o.j. that's an opportunity lost because the justice department has decided to take a back seat. there's lots of other consequences. for example, there's hours and hours of witness interviews that now are going to be cross-examination material. the electors in arizona of a this entire january 6th investigation, they're not going to talk to the d.o.j. so you lose ability to flip people. there are consequences for him refusing to go forward. and i really think the criticism that he's more of a federal appellate judge than an aggressive prosecutor is fair criticism. >> i mean, in "the new york times" michael schmidt wrote a great story about these contrasts today. as you point out, the committee moving full steam ahead. you have fulton county's d.a., georgia's d.a., the subpoena,
winning core battles versus what we see. is your bottom line the justice department is, contrary to what people say, taking a real risk if they are seen and in reality taking a back seat to these other investigations? >> absolutely. i think it harms the cases. now, for example, we have this new ruling in georgia that fanny willis can't actually move forward in certain ways. it's a pretty reasonable ruling, on one of the defendants. that just gums up the case and makes everything more difficult. that's why usually at the department of justice what was done certainly when i was there and when everybody i know was there, when there was an investigation to be had, they took the lead. because it's cleaner that way. it's more effective that way. they have more resources. they have an ability to flip people. we're really lucky the january 6th committee is so competent and it's being run by a former
prosecutor who has flipped plenty of witnesses and put a case together. they've had to rely on tim casey to do his work and he doesn't have the at the same time amount of tools that they have at the department of justice to get inside phones, to get search warrants, to do all kinds of things, to use expert interrogators. and department of justice is better able to handle this. and because of the cautiousness of the attorney general, which i understand because -- he is so overly cautious. i believe if he doesn't get moving, the case is really hurt. the other thing about it is the case is so much better as a global case. if you take individual silos of conspiracy, you don't get all the information in. it's so much bigger than if this
is just the arizona case or pennsylvania or just january 6. it's better as a seditious conspiracy case for the purposes of the trial lawyers if they can get everything in because it strengthens the intent burden on the prosecutions to be able to show how many times trump was told that he had no case, how they brought people, what they did with the conspiracy, how they used the proud boys, how they lied to legislators. that's a better case in terms of prosecution. that's what we all need. >> but as you know and, peter, we've talked about this before that defenders america will say there's a very good chance he knows more and is doing more than he himself led on. and as it's pointed out in your story, your paper, we do have some clues from court filings and other evidence where d.o.j. seems to be focusing. what do we know?
>> she would know better than i would. she's nicer and also smarter. there is a shroud over that investigation and a question whether he's been more aggressive than we have seen or whether it's just the fact that it seems to drag on as long as it has without the results you would imagine. there's certainly a risk from merrick garland's point of view moving too quickly but there's also a risk in taking too long. not only do you take a chance of losing witnesses that she just talked about, you put it more in the political arena. the former president is thinking about whether to announce a campaign for reelection in 2024, as soon as this fall. if he does that, that changes the political dynamic in which a prosecution might take place. you could be that's a different
complexion. i think there's a lot of factors here. perhaps that's the way they go. but i think the public is obviously eager to know what's happening. >> peter baker, sint any oxny, thank you so much. right now, firefighters are battling a huge fire, one of the largest this year. and daily high temperature records continue to be set and in some cases they've been broken again in the past 30 days. is this our new normal and is there anything we can do about it? that's next. we can do about it it that's next.ks... and so do i. ♪♪ hydration beyond the hype. ♪♪ is it me or does everyone auditioning
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near yosemite national park. >> reporter: dangerous fires raging in california. hot and dry conditions are feeding the flames of the fast-moving oak fire, which is quickly spreading. >> the fire has gained exception an acreage. >> reporter: it's forcing thousands to evacuate from their homes in mariposa county. >> you see all these people. i know they want to be home. >> reporter: overnight firefighters battling the blaze outside yosemite national park. california's governor declaring a state of emergency and fema is joining the effort to stop the flames. >> trying to chill in the heat. >> reporter: sweltering records
across the northeast, new jersey breaking triple digits for five days in a row. five lives have been claimed so far. one in south dakota who died from suspected heat conditions. and former vice president al gore calling the heat an extreme emergency but one that can be controlled if we act now. >> if we got to true net zero, the temperature of the earth will stop going up with the lag time of as little as three to five years. >> and joining me is author of the book "the new climate war." it's good to see you again, michael. you've dedicated your life to climate science. as you watch what we just saw in that story, as you watch what's
been unfolding this summer, what do you see and what do you want people to know? >> chris, it's good to be with you. i'll tell you frankly many of us have been studying climate change for decades and there's nothing worse as a climate scientist than seeing your predictions play out. that's what we're seeing happen. over the last several years, the signal of our impact on the climate has become so large that we can see it playing out in realtime in these reports of the wildfires, out west, the devastating triple digit heat back east. it's a double edged sword. if that heat comes with humidity, then you're dealing with deadly heat indies. when it comes with dryness, you have get these drastic fires that we're seeing in california
and in the u.s. it's not subtle climate change. it's not far off. it's here and now in the form of these catastrophic extreme weather events? >> i hate to put this this way but is this what had to happen? you and others have been trying to make an argument to an american populous that seems to be distrustful of science. do you think they might get the message now? >> that's a whole other problem, the threat that exists to fact-based discourse. that's of course a problem when it comes to dealing with the great crises that we face and there's no greater crisis than the climate crisis. it's mother nature that is telling us not only is this a new normal, we will we won't be
able to adapt to changes that are worse than this. that's why it's so important that we reduce pap to avoid crossing that truly dangerous planetary threshold of 3 degrees fahrenheit warming. we can do that but we need policy, we need legislation and a congress willing to pass climate legislation. voters should be thinking with that going into the mid-term elections. >> let me ask you about what form evice president al gore said getting to toe "net normal." >> the shrines has given us some good news over the last few years. the planet will and there are
folks out there who insist that we need to develop new energy technology to solve this problem. that's not true. we've got the technology now in the form of wind, solar and geo thermal. what we need is the political will to actually fund an expansion in clean energy infrastructure, to move away from fossil fuels, to stop subsidizing the fossil fuel industry and stop building new fossil fooul and it gets really high ratings on goog ls, on barns. >> and just a short time ago, a man accused of raping a 10-year-old girl in ohio who had to travel to indiana for an abortion entered a plea. and lawmakers are holding a special session about new aborg
right now in indiana, lawmakers are in a special session considering new abortion restrictions and vice president kamala harris is in that state this afternoon to meet with some of those lawmakers, urging them to protect reproductive rights. if the bill passes, indiana would join other states. ohio's know exception heartbeat law meant she had to travel across state lines to endian a indiana for an abortion. her rapist was arraigned today
and entered a plea of not guilty to both counts with me is shaquille brewster and dr. mchugh. shaq, let's start with more on how the indiana general assembly is considering these new restrictions during this special session and at the same time the vice president is there as well. >> for sure. it's a very busy day in indianapolis. let start with that session session. indiana is the first state to launch a special session in the wake of that dobbs ruling overturning roe v. wade. it would lead to a near total ban of abortion in the state of indiana there are some exception, rape, incest and fetal abnormality. it would dramatically reduce the access that women in indiana
have to abortion. and you watch the live stream of lawmakers inside the chamber and then you have the visit of vice president kamala harris, who made clear that while the president and her are doing whatever they can at a federal level, she's saying that she wants to stand with local lawmakers in their fight against this legislation. listen to a little bit of her message today. >> maybe some people need to actually learn how a woman's body works. the parameters that are being proposed mean that for the vast majority of women, by the time she realizes she is pregnant, she will effectively be prohibited from having access to reproductive health care that would allow her to choose what happens to her body. >> now the state senate is also
considering some legislation that would add to what they call maternal support. about $45 million to support parents in this time and also increase adoption tax credit. but this is something that is extremely controversial. we can see this bill pass likely within the next two weeks, chris. >> dr. mchugh, what happens if that is what happens, that this bill passes? >> we fully expect this bill to pass in some form and we've been anticipating a significant decrease in abortion access here in indiana. while we've been automobile to increase our access, we've been welcoming patients from out of state, ohio, kentucky, all the way down to texas, we've been simultaneously strengthening our connection with states like illinois and minnesota and maryland and places that will
welcome all of our patients from the midwest. unfortunately banning abortion does not stop abortion, it just prevents safe abortion from happening this is what we are trying to support our patients to transferring them to tinch states to get the care they deserve. >> it sounds like it. it essentially changes the job you're going to do going forward. >> that's exactly right. right now i spend a lot portion of my professional time providing abortion care to patients. they come to me for a variety of different reasons and all of those reasons are valid. it is not my job as their doctor to judge them on their life choices or on their pregnancy or parenting choices. it is my job to offer them of safe and appropriate and and then support them in whatever option they choose. and it is my honor to be a part of that process.
abortion is a choice that people make out of love and compassion for themselves and for the families that they already have. so my job will change significantly, but my advocacy for abortion rights and for access to safe abortion will not change. >> the fact of the matter is, shaq, is that indiana is just one example. there is an intensified push from anti-abortion activists, state lawmakers, conservative politicians on the campaign trail for more or more marrow limits than what is being proposed even in indiana. what can you tell bus the argument on the other side? >> we hear a lot of talk they want to go as far as possible. right now there are people testifying saying they're upset that this legislation that is being debated doesn't go far enough.
they want to remove some of those protections and increase some of the criminal penalties who then go ahead and perform an abortion. that's arguments taking place and you're seeing this all across the country. it was something that you. she was in a and also encouraging them to fight back against some of the restrictions that are being proposed in. >> and the wake of the overturning of roe v. wade, that's why you're having the attention on that local level. >> thank you both. 20 million tons. that's how much grain is sitting in ukraine's port city of odesa right now and it could rot away. russia is facing new backlash after attacking less than 24
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six months old and we have learned two american citizens died fighting in the donbas region, that is according to the state department. russia has recently intensified attacks there. state department officials didn't elaborate about when or how these deaths happened. ukraine is working to resume grain exports after russia carried out a missile strike on port city of odesa. a day earlier russia promised it would not attack ships in the black sea. joining me is josh letterman. tell us about the strike on odesa. does ukraine expect it will affect the ability to export grain? >> reporter: ukraine hopes to be able to export grain to restart that in line with the deal despite the russian strikes. we heard from the deputy
interior minister in ukraine who said by tomorrow they can start the wok for the ports to retime exports of grain and there's three ports that they are eyeing, odesa that was hit by the russian missiles being one and the largest. within about two weeks they hope to have the ports ready to start shipping grain out through the black sea but of course all of that is contingent on whether or not russia launches more strikes aimed at the ports. we heard the russian government, both putin's spokesman and the foreign minister saying that the strikes on the port did not violate the agreement because they were targeting military infrastructure at the odesa port and not the civilian infrastructure used to eximportant grain. ukraine, the united nations, the united states they feel that those two missile strikes certainly did violate if not the
letter of the agreement the spirit of the agreement in which russia was not supposed to attack the facilities needed to implement the deal and send the grain out but i spoke with a senior official at the usaid who said the u.s. government is working on a plan "b" if the grain deal does not hold getting the grain out by other means by road or barges over rivers. >> thank you. that will do it for me. join us every weekday 1:00 eastern time. don't go anywhere. hallie jackson will pick up our coverage next. will pick up our will pick up our coverage next.w, i can disrupt eczema with rinvoq. rinvoq is not a steroid, topical, or injection.
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