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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  July 27, 2022 12:00am-1:00am PDT

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country of ours is a complicated economy. and that is the truth. and on that note, i wish you all a very good and safe night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thank you for staying up late with us. i will see you at the end of tomorrow. us. i will see you at the end of tonight on all in. >> the indictment of a former president perhaps candidate for president would arguably tear the country apart. is that your concern? >> an nbc news exclusive interview. >> there's been a lot of criticism a lot of pressure the doj is behind the committee. >> the justice department goes public as the january 6th committee goes dark. >> i think that the hearings did an extremely good job of reminding us how important that day was.
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>> tonight, congressman adam schiff and claire mccaskill on the merrick garland interview a new reporting that the dark department of justice is investigating donald trump. plus as pence for president essentially kicks off, can you really agree to disagree after a violent coup attempt? >> i don't know that the president and i differ on issues. but we may differ on focus. >> and new reporting on the fake electoral campaign to up end democracy in the republican running for governor who's in the middle of it all. all in starts right now. good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes. in the past hour we just got a huge bit of breaking news. the department of justice is investigating donald trump. washington post is reporting that the doj is investigating the ex president's actions as part of its criminal probe on january 6th. sources telling the post of
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federal prosecutors were questioning witnesses before the grand jury announced hours of detailed questions about troubleshoot in december 20, 20 and 2021. to pressure campaign on pence to overturn the election would instructions trump gave his lawyers and advisor about fake electors and sending electors back to the states. some of the questions focused on the extent of trump's involvement in the fake elector effort, led by john eastman and rudy giuliani. of course at some level i think we all thought something like this was happening. but there hadn't been any concrete reporting on this until now. this major news comes tonight as attorney general merrick garland speaking out for the first time since the january six committee wrapped its final committee hearing for the summer until they return in september. i am going to play for you his exclusive interview with nbc reporter lester holt.
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and it comes a key moment america like and all eyes are on him and in the both of which are under pressure to take action in light of the damning set of facts that have been laid out, so vigorously by the committee. over eight hearings, the committee show how donald trump and his allies will fully, intentionally, conspired to overturn a lawful election, culminating in the attempted coup on january six. and i have to say that nearly every legal expert who listened to the evidence, it seems there is not a slam dunk, definitely a criminal case be investigated here. then came news that the day after that eighth and final hearing, marc short, who's it to us that to mark pence, testified before a grand jury investigating this insurrection. yesterday, we learned that shot wasn't the only pence to testify. pence's chief counsel, greg jacob, also appeared before the grand jury. making those two officials the
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most prominent witnesses that we know of that off testified as part of the department of justice's criminal investigation before a criminal grand jury they were both present for key meetings when donald trump tried to allied to pressure pans into halting the electoral votes for january six. today we got the stunning report from the new york times publishing previously undisclosed emails that shed new light on the ex presidents scheme. this is really something else. quote, the dozens of emails among people connected to the trump campaign outside advisers, close associates to mr. trump, show a particular focus on assembling lists of people who would claim,, -- with no basis -- to be electoral college electors on his behalf in battleground states that he had lost. he authored some of those emails and an arizona lawyer repeatedly called those very repeatedly called those electors fake, that is the word he used. he fully understood what they
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were up to. writing it in an email, if the trump campaign advisor boris epshteyn. quote, we would just be it sending in fake electoral votes to pence so that someone in congress can make an objection when he starts counting votes and start arguing that the fake votes should be counted. in a follow-up to that message, alternative both is probably a better term than fake votes, adding a smiley face emojis. nice save there buddy, good one. now we know that the scheme is part of the department of justice investigation. washington post reports that that a grand jury issued subpoenas already to two arizona state lawmakers last month seeking communications related to any effort plan, or attempt to serve as an election for donald trump or mike pence. those subpoenas are just part of what's the pose described as a of a significant escalation and expansion of the justice department criminal probe. the same time, federal agents found out over multiple stasis or subpoenas, execute search
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warrants, and interview potential witnesses as part of the investigation into the electors scheme. and amid this massive swirl of activity, and speculation, and pressure, and anticipation, there is attorney general merrick garland. it completely avoiding interviews with the scientists that would lester holt, of course he can't divulge what is actually going on in the investigation. it is still fascinating to hear his perspective at this key moment. take a listen. >> let's start off and talk off about january six. we just watched weeks of some pretty horrific testimony about what led up to january 6th and what happened that day. as an american, can you tell me what your impression was? of what we are hearing? >> your talk about the? hearings >> yes. >> i think it's very important part of democracy that every american recognizes the truth of what happened on january six and the time surrounding it. i think this is an important part that we not downgrade or
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suppress how important that day was. i think the hearings did an extremely good job of reminding us and people who didn't know in the first place telling us how important that day was, what a risk it was for our democracy. >> is the committee offering you anything in terms of an informal roadmap? are you learning things that you didn't know? >> the justice department has been doing the most wide ranging investigation in its history and the committee is doing an enormously wide ranging investigation as well. it's inevitable that there will be things that they find before we have found them and it's inevitable that there will be things that we find that they haven't found. that's what happens when you have two wide-ranging investigations going on at the same time. the justice department has from the beginning been moving urgently and doing everything
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we can about this period and bring to justice everyone who's criminally responsible for interfering with the peaceful transfer of power, from one administration to another, which is a fundamental element of our democracy. >> you said, you are moving quickly at this. there has been a lot of criticism, a lot of pressure, that the doj is kind of behind the power curve here, behind the committee, not moving quickly enough on what's appears to be solid evidence in some cases. >> as i said, we have been moving urgently since the very beginning. we have a huge number of prosecutors and agents working on these cases. it is inevitable in this kind of investigation that there speculation, what we are doing, who we are investigating, what our theories are. the reason there is a speculation and uncertainty is that to some fundamental tenets of what we do as prosecutors and investigators decide to outside the public eye.
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we do that for two important one is to protect the civil liberties and people and events that we are investigating. and second is to ensure the success and the integrity of our investigation. >> would a criminal referral from the committee carry a lot of weight? would it be welcomed by the department of justice? >> i think that's totally up to the committee. we will have the evidence that the committee as president, and whatever evidence that it is presented, the nature of the style of the information that is provided, as much of a significance for any legal point of view. that's not to downgrade it, or disparage it, it's just that that is not the issue here. we have our own investigation, pursuing the best prosecution. >> you said in no certain terms the other day, nobody is above the law. that said, the indictment of a former president, of perhaps candidate for president, would arguably tear the country
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apart. is that your concern? if you make a decision down the road here, do you have to think about things like that? >> we pursue justice without fear or favor. we intend to hold everyone, anyone, who is criminally responsible for the offense surrounding january six or any attempt to interfere with the lawful transfer of power from one administration to another accountable. that's what we do. we don't pay any attention to other issues in respect to that. >> so if donald trump were to become a candidate for president again, would that not change your schedule on how you move forward or don't move forward? >> i will say it again, we will hold accountable anyone who is criminally responsible for attempting to interfere with the transfer of legitimate lawful transfer of power from one administration to the next. >> nbc news has spoken to some people who were close to the
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administration that were overwhelmed by the sheer size of this investigation. we know several hundred people, just the capital alone, do you have a capacity to the courts have a capacity to see these cases through? >> i am confident that we do. of course we would like more resources, if congress wants to give it to us that would be very nice. but we have people from all, prosecutors and agents from all over the country working on this matter. i have every confidence in their ability and professionalism, and dedication to this task. >> how is your department dealing with the pressure? every day you wake up, there's a column in the newspaper talking about what you will do and when you will do it? >> so this i've said before, and i mean it from the bottom of my heart. the only pressure that i, or my prosecutors, or the agents feel, is the pressure to do the right thing. that is the only way we can proceed to the rule of law. that is the only way we can keep the confidence of the american people in the rule of law. which is an essential part of our democratic system.
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>> attorney general merrick garland speaking out tonight as we are learning that his department of justice is reportedly investigating donald trump's actions to overturn the election, as part of a criminal probe. joining me now is claire mccaskill, former democratic senator and former prosecutor from missouri. clare it's good to have you on. first, just your reaction to the washington post reporting that indicates what's we suspected, what has been hinted at, what's been speculated about, is in fact the case right now there is a department of justice investigation that involves donald trump. >> pence's top aides being in front of the criminal grand jury is big. females disclosing that trump's lawyers and operatives were talking about fake electors around an illegal scheme to stop the transfer of power, that's big. but perhaps the biggest is this. that they were given the chief traffic cop in trump crazy town
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mark meadows phone records in april. the doj back in april was pulling meadow's phone records. we know that meadows had his hand in all of this. we know that he was taking orders directly from trump. that is a very, very big deal, and i've got to say, i am pleasantly surprised that this has been going on, and frankly astounded that it hadn't leaked sooner than this. this is good news for america i think. >> that point, i just want to highlight the point you made because we didn't highlight it in the opening. they've subpoenaed those phone records, they have access meadows phone records. obviously to your point, but we know from just the text messages the committee got before he stopped his cooperation and from all the testimony, we call him the traffic cop, this was clearly next to trump probably the most central, in the entire plot in
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terms of different voices going through him? >> yeah. he was the interception of everything. he was listening to trump day in and day out refusing to accept the reality of everything that he is being told by everyone around him. he was getting all the input from the pretend lawyers from team normal and team nuts. he was getting all of that. he was trying to do trump's bidding. and i think if they have the goods on him, this is for people forget, how different doj is than the house committee you have all kinds of tools, you have immunity, where you say to mark meadows, we will not prosecute you. we've got you but you've got to give us more information. things like that will be brought to bear with the grand jury that could really make a difference in this deal. >> you also mentioned -- greg
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jacob and mark short. as much as merrick garland says this is not about politics, it's not about anything, this is the rule of, law and i think it's important that he says that right? all the people in the department of justice understand what they are doing. they understand the stakes. and they also understand what will be public. it distracts me that you've got these to pence aides coming in before an actual grand jury? right that is a stat that you take barely down the road and also when you know that is going to be public. the testimony is marked the first time this become publicly known, georgia firsthand nord that took place in the white house, tumultuous days before the attack. have cooperated with federal prosecutors. what do you think about what that means about where they are in this? that those two individuals have appeared before a federal grand jury? >> further along that i thought, typically you don't get sworn testimony in front of a grand jury until you know what they are going to say and know how you can hold them to the facts in front of a grand jury.
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so that is very important and remember there is 1 million donald trump called the committee and then handed the phones eastman. for him to explain to her, their phony fraudulent plan to deny the american people the person who they actually voted for for president. and that is a really important fact and if they got eastman stuff in there, they've got that to. that means that trump knew everything that was going on. and now i just hope that we have reporting not too long from now that there is a target letter with his name on it. >> well, and here is the other point, and you just noted this. again, one of the things that has been uncovered by the committee is this evidence of consciousness of guilt. right, electors being told not to tell people about their scheme. not to keep it off email. then we got these remarkable document, this is the by the new york times, in which they are just admitting what they are doing is unlawful.
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this is an arizona tiny to a trump campaign official, i just talked to the gentleman can't cheese borough. his idea is basically that all of us, ga, wi, az, pa, etc., have our elector senator votes. even though the votes aren't legal under federal law, because they're not signed by the governor. kind of wild creative, i'm happy to discuss. i mean that is a pretty close to a smoking gun evidence of consciousness of guilt, or that you know what you are doing is unlawful when you say they are not legal. >> well, we had testimony in front of the committee that even eastman admitted that the supreme court would find what they were trying to do illegal. i think we have a lot of consciousness of guilt. i think the ultimate decision that garland has been wrestling with, and i hope he has come to terms with it. there is a risk to indicting a former president in terms of what it does to this country. but i believe in these circumstances, the risk is so much greater if they let this guy go.
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without any consequences. and that is really where he is at this moment in history. and let's hope he comes down on the right side of it. >> i have come to view it in exactly those terms as well. claire mccaskill, thank you very much for joining us. >> you bet. >> coming up, as i just mentioned, it really broke the stronger bell roll. trump's associates detailed they're unlawful, they collect your plans, in writing, about the january six committee member congressman adam schiff about the significance of this revelation. and merrick garland's next steps after this. revelation and merrick garland's next
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steps after this
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january six, we just wash weeks of some pretty horrific testimony that led up to january six and what happened that day. just, as an american, can you tell me what your impression was of what we heard? >> are you talking about the hearings? >> the hearings. >> i think it is a very important, it's important part of democracy. every american recognizes the truth of what happened on january 6th and in the times surrounding it. i think that this is an important part that we have not downgrade or suppress how important that day was. and i think that the hearings did an extremely good job of reminding us, for people who didn't know in the first place, telling us, how important that day was. what a risk it meant for our democracy. >> that was attorney general garland's interview today of
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msnbc news with lester holt that he is following the january six committee hearings and they are doing an extremely good job. joining now by a member of the january six committee, democratic adam schiff of california, he is a lead impeachment down manager of donald trump's first impeachment trial. congressman, i think i've been asked poking as anyone at your view that there is something here for the department of justice to investigate. that there is abundant factual predicate for criminal investigation. today we have reported by the washington post, that apparently, they are doing just that. donald trump is being investigated as part of a criminal investigation, what is your response to that? >> well you know, it's hard to read too much into what the washington post disclosed. it said that witnesses are being asked questions about the president's role. that doesn't necessarily mean the president is under an investigation. you would expect that witnesses would be asked of interactions with anyone involved in the plot to overturn the election. but look, i think the attorney
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general today was saying all the right things. and i notice a difference at least i perceived a difference between what he had been saying earlier about focusing on all those involved in the attack on january six and now talking more broadly about the overall plot to overturn the election. so i would hope that if the department is truly following the evidence wherever it leads, it will recognize it is leading to donald j trump. >> that, i just want to have you expand on that a little bit because i caught that too when he said basically, people i think, the terminology criminally responsible or criminally responsible for the attempt to stop the peaceful transfer of power between one administration to the next. which is a more expansive view of what the crime was. i think then what we have seen before. but it sounds like did that catch your ears as well? >> absolutely it did. and frankly this was the main criticism i had previously about the department, that is yes, it was doing an expansive investigation.
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in 50 states of all of those who participated in the attack. those who conspired. in a seditious way about the attack. but it was very focused on the violence of january six. which is obviously a key and importance but there were multiple lines of efforts to overturn the election. and some of those other lines of efforts, the president on the phone with a secretary of state in georgia. pushing him to find 11,780 votes that don't exist. the president telling people just say the election is corrupt. let me and the republican members of congress to the rest. you know, that says that there are other actions beyond the violence of that day that need to be investigated and today it sounded like that is what the department is doing. >> you know, one of the lines of investigation of the departments pursuing that we know from legal documents, subpoenas that have been served upon reporting, is about the fake electors. and the fake electors in the
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subject of a lot of work by the committee as well. we have learned a lot about from your committee from the fake electors. i want to read you this email from the new york times obtained from a trump lawyer. that kind of lays out what this is all about and get your reaction to it. this is a lawyer named jack wilenchik sent to boris epshteyn says, we would just be sending in fake electoral votes to pence so that someone in congress can make an objection when they start counting votes and that arguing that the fake votes should be counted. then later says, alternative votes is probably a better tone than fake votes. smiley face emoji. what do you think of that? >> well all of this is really key evidence of intent. that is an intention to fraud the voters. to defraud the united states of the results of the election. it's in writing, people acknowledging, these are just fakes. we are gonna represent the fake electors as a pretext to allow people in congress to try to stop the transfer of power. all of these things where there is an admission that okay,
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there isn't evidence of fraud. giuliani's comments, while we got lots of theories, we don't have any facts. you know, these are really what, as a former prosecutor, you will look for in terms of evidence, and criminal wrongdoing, and as a member of congress, we look at it in terms of the blatant effort to corruptly overturn this election and stop the peaceful transfer of power. those emails pretty damning in the language that they use, and also, others talking about trying to keep it hidden on what they are doing. >> final question for you and i know you have to vote quickly. we've seen a bunch of witness testimony. some of that i think has been quite forthcoming. expansive even. some of it has been even terse, very guarded. even folks that are ostensibly cooperating in the subpoena. how would you carry terrorize the testimony into many particle, or marc short, who we have seen recorded depositions of.
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and greg jacop who was vice president, pence as general counsel, who appeared live before the committee. those two men of course we know has gone in front of a federal grand jury. what is your characterization of their level of forthcoming in their testimony? >> you know, i really try not to characterize the testimony in that way. i will say that i think a lot of witnesses were candid with us. and a lot of witnesses wouldn't answer certain questions and assert privileges and we have to accept at least for the moment to preserve a right to litigate the question later. we have to accept those limitations and some of those limitations really prevented us from getting some key questions answered. so, i don't want to make it specific to these two gentlemen but we would have people that i believe would be telling us the truth. but at the same time will not answer certain questions and i think they have the discretion
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to answer them. i think many of these privileges are not well founded and of course deeply frustrating to the fact finding process. >> yes, the theory surrounding cipollone's indictations are just completely nonsense and baseless. that is my editorializing. congressman adam schiff. i let you go about. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> still to come, former boss sent an armed mob after him, now mike pence is trying to take up as president as donald trump's successor. the bizarre world of the pence 2024 election campaign. next. 2024 election campaign next next
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president in 2024, wants to be president evidently and he would be running most likely against donald trump, the guy that tried to get him killed. pence knows the never trump tract is likely the republican primary, it's value we try to get me killed in that probably has you disqualified for office. so he's walking a tightrope. i'm mike pence, donald trump tried to get me killed in a coup, but i won't go along with it. here's my guess i want to hit my gut. but i want your vote. so help me god. >> none of that in my new book. so help me god. really truly profoundly bizarre situation. one of the strangest i think in recent political memory, it makes you wonder in light of attorney general merrick garland's comments today. the pence 2024 campaign awaiting is simply waiting for donald trump to get indicted. how on earth does dynamic play out in the republican field? david jolly tried in his party
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membership awhile back, but before that he was congressman of florida, now tries a service america, movement composed of democratic and independents. david, it is truly one of the most bizarre pitches i have seen. what is your understanding on how the pants people are trying to thread this needle? >> look, i think you nailed it. and there are two fundamental promises to this candidacy, and a lot of other republicans. the first being, there is no successful path for distancing yourself from donald trump. right? the graveyard of people who have distance themselves is small, but is full. there is no path. and then the second is, you do have to prepare your candidacy for a possible scenario, where donald trump is not a candidate. perhaps he is indicted, or perhaps he just does not run. and so what you are seeing in mike pence's, chris, not much different in messaging, from ron desantis, nikki haley, and others, which is the hud donald
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trump tightly, to hug maga tightly, to hug the agenda tightly, but to say, let's look forward. let's look past the 2016 and 2020 elections. donald trump is going that way, we want to take you to the next chapter. look, it's a tight rope, he is walking, with mike pence, though it is filled with irony. to your point, donald trump knew that mike pence's life was in danger, donald trump said, let's reduce security, not increase it. that is fairly emasculating for the platform for a potential presidential bid by mike pence. >> yeah, i mean he sent an armed mob up to the building that he wants it you know, to go try to pressure the guy. possibly to injure him. he painted a target on its back. it's what's he did was vile. and i guess, the willful -- conditions this is just so embedded in the function of all of these people, that they're just gonna go do it. but it also seems like, it's a little like, what are you gonna do when he tells you to your
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face on a debate stage, he wishes you had ended up in the gallops? it's like you know, while we disagree about that. that's not gonna work dude. i mean obviously, whatever, they are not thinking that far ahead. but this whole like, not crossed him, but be a little different, i don't know. it just seems so insane to me. >> no, you are exactly, right and let's be honest, mike pence is going to finish in the low single digits. that is just what's how it's going to be. he might finish a couple points ahead of liz cheney. if she decides to run. cognitive dislike venture exactly, right as though nothing that is actually real, will ever happen, but i also tell you, it is odd chris, and i know you know this. watching mike pence, somebody who tries to express such humility, such a thick faith compass. to see his denial of the truth, to see him living in this alternative reality that somehow, he is guided, understand his fate, i understand his faith, but to think that he is kind of ordained or destined for the presidency. you are watching this play out,
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against as you said, the public cognitive dissidents. of what we actually saw happen. for a man, he elevated a man who was as ethical to all of pence's big bass principles. and then when it came to the basic premise of protecting democracy, he elevated and served a man who sought to destroy that democracy. it is an odd way for him to embark apart a presidential run, but, even the most humble man, political ambition usually comes first, and that is true of mike pence. >> yeah, i mean i'm gonna put humbling and quotes there just to be a little more specific. david jolly,. >> self righteous, perhaps. >> then humility. >> yeah, thank you very much. good to have you on that. still ahead, they plotted to steal the election, they marched on the capitol on january six, now they are running for governor. more of the republican party insurrectionist candidates. next. ar running for governor
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more of the republican party insurrectionist candidates next
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ask your doctor about jardiance. i can't. ah, my toes! turns out, it is hard walking a mile in someone else's shoes. and it turns out the general is a quality insurance company that's been saving people money for nearly 60 years. i gotta go, ah. for a great low rate, and nearly 60 years of quality coverage, go with the general. >> last week during a campaign event, new york republican congressman and a hula torreón candidate leads eldon, not was attacked by a member of the crowd. it was around 8:00 last night, outside the vfw post, in a little town about 15 minutes southwest of rochester, in monroe county. the attacker can be heard saying quote, you are done, as he went onstage, was grabbing at zeldin, and then county sheriff's office arrested 43-year-old david jacobus and charged win with attempted assault and the second-degree. zeldin was not injured and he was back on the campaign trail today.
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>> this was a scary incident. as you can see there. we are living through a very fraught moment where politically motivated violence looms over our public life so that made it particularly scary. and the attack was rightfully swiftly condemned by his opponent, democratic governor kathy hochul, and president joe biden, and many others. now thankfully he was not hurt. this would be assailants had been drinking. he was wielding a kitchen shaped key chain with sharpened edges. that is it right there. he says he didn't even know who zeldin was, so his motivations remain unclear. but in the aftermath of this generally scary incidences, others campaign sought out an opportunity to take lemons and make political lemonade. you see lee's out and has been putting out a coat school tough on crime lock him up campaign. with the primary focus of his desire being new york state bail reform laws which make it so that some misdemeanor and non violent offenders don't have to sit in a cell waiting
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trial simply because they don't have the money to afford bail. remember, bail is fully adjudicated based on your ability to pay. right? so the night of the attack, zeldin makes this bold prediction. he gets on twitter and says quote, they attack or will likely be instantly released under new york's laws. and my gosh, wouldn't you know it, zeldin nailed it. totally got a right. in fact, the very next day, his attacker was charged with attempted second-degree assault, and released from jail without bail. zeldin immediately went on the offensive. he held press conferences about bail reform. he did an interview with fox news anchor sean hannity where he blames again, new york's criminal justice laws. >> he is charged with a violent felony, and he is instantly released back on the street because of new york's cashless bail laws. i saw it coming, i wish it wasn't this way, and we keep hearing too many of these stories. >> i saw it coming. you hear that? >> first of all, he is wrong, there the attacker was not charged with a violent felony, which is kind of the point actually.
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but a narrative was already set. even donald trump mentioned it during his speech today, just another example of a soft on crime approach from the libs. too worried about making nice of the blm folks to keep our streets safe. as you might have guessed the story is a little bit more pollinated that lead zeldin let on. people a tree started asking, wait a second, who is the prosecutor who only charge this guy with attempted second-degree assault? well the district attorney from monroe county, new york, where the attack happens, is a woman named sandra doorley. as it turns out, sandra doorley is a personal friend of lee zeldin. just three months ago, she was listed as a partial co-chair of his gubernatorial campaign position she is not trying to distance herself from and it gets better. sandra doorley was at the rally in which he was attacked. she's a supporter. she's a friend. zeldin apparently spoke with sandra doorley, just minutes after the incident. and it was her office that made
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the affirmative decision to charge the attacker with a crime that was be eligible without bail. although doorley said she did not make the decision personally and that her office was just offering to with a sheriff's department recommended. but it's a little odd. you see, monroe county prosecutors are known for passing more serious charges for requesting bail more often than other new york counties. sandra doorly long order politics are in line with lee zeldin. you might see how it might look? like her office tend to gin up a convenient narrative for his campaign, which he is listed as co-chair. now doorley would be recusing that she would be recusing herself from the southern case yesterday. and the whole controversy as somewhat mute anyways because his attacker is not roaming the streets of new york. he's currently being detained on federal assault charges. goes without saying that attacking a city congressman is a crime, the federal government takes very seriously. but again the damage has been done. just an absolute perfect example of the way that we
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discuss, law and order, crime and justice in this country. because yes it was a serious crime. and it's also true that no larger sense, we have seen an increase in violence. right? we need answers to that problem. we need to talk about it and clear up in a rigorous fashion. but on top of those real issues, zeldin was really attacked. we also have republican politicians, conservative propagandist, opportunistically attempting sometimes false, other times disingenuous arguments against the small amounts of criminal justice reform that we do have in this country. which by the way folks, still the most heavily incarcerated country on earth. our job as journalist, regardless of the ideology or policy is just to separate the real story, from the cynical hysteria and to call out the flagrant propaganda when we see it. flagrant propaganda when we se it it
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in the fate of democracy, wouldn't shapiro said it to me and i'm sure it's true if the shapiro wins, abortion will remain legal and accessible in pennsylvania. and if mastriano wins, it will not. i, mean i wondered how core -- that issue many matchup in the country. and pennsylvania. >> i think it is core because it's really energizes young -- pittsburgh in the other day and young voters, and some of the college campuses, in pittsburgh, who were saying, you know they are not putting fans, necessarily, in this letter that has really energize that, and if young voters could turn out at the same -- that they did in 2018, democrats and pennsylvania. or, 2020, would be incredible. that would be hard to pull off. but if you have young voters drop in pennsylvania, it could be very different for shapiro. it could be very good for don fetterman and senators. >> will bunch, thank you very,
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much author coming out which i've heard a lot of very excellent things about kind of the big issues of our time. by and just to. we called after the ivory tower falls. how college broke the american dream and blew up our politics. and how to fixamer falls." it's ican m released next tuesday. will, congratulations on the book. thank you for joining us tonight. >>bo yeah. thanks for the kind words. i appreciate it, chris. that is "all in" on this tuesday night. msnbc prime starts right now. good evening. >> chris "all in" i remember everyday i think of it everyday. can't forget those words, so memorable. thank you so much.etse have ads great rest of your nig. thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. we have breaking news to get to tonight. g "the washington post" just out with this brand new reporting, justice department investigating trump's actions in january 6 criminal probe. we will get details from carol len