tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC August 3, 2022 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT
outside the capitol in extreme heat fighting for this legislation. and stuart, who has stood with the families for the entire week at this to say last night. >> i'm not sure i've ever seen a situation where people who have already given so much had to fight so hard to get so little. and i hope we learn a lesson. >> i hope so too. that's tonight's rita. all increases to our snow tonight on all in -- >> what's the message that kansans sent to the rest of the country tonight? >> don't mess with us. >> a big night in kansas since political shockwaves across the nation as voters overwhelmingly turnout for abortion rights. >> last night the people of kansas sent a message to the clearest that ever i've seen in politics. >> tonight with the huge turnout and decisive win means for the democrats in midterms.
stacey abrams will be my guest. and then new reports trump's top white house lawyers both subpoenaed by the department of justice over january six. plus >> he got the message is right there. >> you know a perjury is right? >> alex jones and is misinformation factory facing justice for his sandy hook lies. >> you must tell the truth while you testify. this is not your show. >> all in starts right now. >> good evening from washington d.c.. i'm mehdi hasan and in for chris hayes. do you know the last time kansas went democratic in the presidential election? it was 1964 when lyndon b. johnson carried 44 out of 50 states plus the district of columbia. since then, republicans have won the state of kansas every four years for the last 54 years. in 2016, donald trump won kansas by 20 points.
less than two years ago in 2020, he won by nearly 15 points. kansas is a red, red state, and yet last night we saw a huge win for liberals in kansas. voters resoundingly rejected and an amendment removing abortion rights and protections for their stay caused to xin. voting it down 59 to 41%. now just to put that in a little bit more into context, to put the entire political earthquake into context, that ballot question was supposed to be an easy win for the antiabortion side. was not even supposed to be close. recent polls said the 47% of kansans plan to vote yes on the amendment compared to no gland vote no. and republicans were supposed to cruise to victory with their demographic advantage. last night most of the primary races were for republicans. there was not much incentive for democrats to even show up aside for this one ballot question.
it was a strategic in very cynical question to put this question on the primary ballot instead of the general election. proponents of the measure were hoping and planning for a low turnout. the question itself was intentionally garbled to confuse people. the text read in part quote, to the extent permitted by the constitution of the united states, the people through their elected state representatives and state senators may pass laws regarding abortion including but not limited to laws that account for circumstances of pregnancy resulting from rape, incest or circumstances of necessity to save the life of the mother. and they were asked to choose yes or no to that statement. with the yes vote being against abortion rights and a no vote supporting them. not exactly intuitive. but the people of kansas turned out to vote in droves and many of them were very concerned about this issue. after the supreme court decision overturning roe v. wade in june, voter registrations in kansas surged nearly 1000% and quote, women
accounted for 70% of all new registered voters in the state. yesterday's turnout blew away all expectations. on friday kansas secretary of state scott schwab predicted that about 36% of voters would participate in the primary election. 36%. last night as the numbers were all in, he said the actual number quote could be almost 50%. and at that point you're looking at general election numbers, as looking a lot like the 2008 turnout for the obama presidential race. so it's incredibly high turnout. more than 900,000 people voted in kansas, nearly twice as many as in the 2018 primary, and we are seeing some massive swings from the 2020 results. for example, franklin county in eastern kansas went for donald trump 68 to 30%. yesterday the people of franklin county rejected this amendment 56 to 44%. voters themselves were surprised, as one woman told an
d.c. reporter dasha burns last night -- >> i'm surprised. all my friends and i thought it was gonna be a very narrow margin of victory or defeat and so we were just nervous. we've been nervous since we heard about the supreme court's decision. i'm really proud that our state came through and decisively one. i'm very happy for me, i'm very happy for my daughters and my family. i'm happy for my granddaughter's, and generations to come that our state stood up and said no. we are the first ones to say no so i'm just overjoyed. >> now this result really should be the end of the debate over whether not democrats should put abortion front and center in the midterm campaigns this year. republicans who have been insisting that the supreme court decision would not change anything leading up to the midterms seem to have been proven wrong. just look at what rich lowry at an inch half of the
conservative magazine national review road just a few league weeks ago. quote, the historic supreme court decision overturning roe v. wade which democrats have hoped will stun voters into supporting them in one otherwise would be a big gop year, as not much discernible political effect. that aged well. and even democrats themselves have sometimes been afraid of their own shadow when it comes to abortion rights. white house communications director kate bedingfield took a lot of heat for the statement defending president biden's initial lackluster response to the decision overturning roe saying his goal quote and responding to dobbs's not to satisfy some activists who've been consistently out of step with those in the party. the result in kansas shows that she was wrong as well. abortion activists who have been criticized for not responding more forcibly are clearly in line with public opinion even in that deep red state. the president's also been criticized by some for almost never uttering the word abortion. mister president, do not be
afraid to say the a word. as the people in kansas showed us last night, americans are a okay with it. now we know democrats would much rather talk about quote unquote kitchen table issues, but their opponents are pro forced birth, even forced birth for kids. that's who they're running against, so you want to kitchen table issues? how about not chaining women to the kitchen table? why not run on the? we saw in kansas last night shows abortion is a perfect issue for democrats, but both energizes their supporters and perhaps surprisingly does not seem to energize republicans in the many the way many thought it would. maybe, just maybe it won't be all doom and gloom for dems. stacey abrams is a democratic candidate for governor in georgia. also the founder fair fight action and voting rights actions and joins us now. thank you so much for coming on the show tonight. were you surprised not just by the women in kansas but by the
huge margin of victory? >> i was surprised by the margin but not by the success. kansas has made a habit in recent years of doing the right thing. the election of laura kelly in face of the extremist signal the kansas want to good leadership and in this case they wanted the right to freedom for women in that state. they refused to allow women to be relegated to second class citizenship and i'm proud of kansas and i'm proud of america to take the steps we need to protect abortion care and united states of america. >> so in your state of georgia, a federal appeals court allowed a six-week abortion ban to go into effect last month. what is the state of abortion access in georgia right now tonight? and what would you as governor due to secure abortion rights? >> brian kemp passed an extreme, callous abortion law in the state of georgia. it is a six-week abortion law that bans abortion before most women know their pregnant.
we have a broken public health system or we have 82 counties within an ob/gyn, 18 counties of the family care doctor. we have nine counties without a physician at all, and in this climate we now have an abortion ban that denies women access to care. i am strongly pro-choice, because i understand that this is about freedom, this is about access and this is about right for women to choose their future. i believe that georgia is going to follow kansas's lead. we do not allow ballot initiatives in georgia until a ballot initiative is voting me as governor and of georgia. we know if you want to protect a woman's right to choose, her freedom to control her right her body and her future, to your point about kitchen table issues, if women want the ability to determine what their lives looked like economically and socially, then we have to let the governor who believes in women's rights. i'm the only candidate in this race who does so. brian campus said that he is
overjoyed by this law, by this extreme ban, this lethal ban on women. and we know when we not saw in kansas will be repeated here in georgia if women show up. >> so, you have progressives in your party insisting the president could do more with his executive orders. to be fair, he just unveiled one today on protecting interstate travel. but they want the administration to declare a public health emergency. congresswoman -- said we should declare a public health emergency. in your view, has prize president died and his administration gonna again to secure abortion rights since the dobbs decision? >> we know the federal government is facing a number of challenges and as we watch congress and the president tried to do more, we need to look to democrats to try to solve the problem. but my focus is on the state of georgia. it is the governor who will decide what will happen next. brian kemp says he intends to
expand this abortion ban to deny women the right to choose and even the cases of rape and incest. today we have conversations about women about pregnancy loss and miscarriage where they face being investigated. i am the only choice for women in the state and i believe that if we understand in georgia and across this country governors are right at the front line of defending a woman's right to choose, and we will not see only turnout but rollbacks of these laws and that's where i intend to do is an ex governor of georgia. >> you are running to be the first black female governor in the u.s. in a party that has done well largely thanks to the efforts of black female voters turning out. how much -- the fact that a health care access disproportionately affects black women in america. >> in the state of georgia, we are the number one state for maternal mortality and a black woman is three times more likely from pregnancy related deaths in the state of georgia.
it is lethal to be pregnant in georgia fewer black women. and we know that brian kemp's does precious little to address that issue. finally, after years of begging the expanded access to medicaid but only for those who are already pregnant and for a year after pregnancy. what about for the women before pregnancy? i had a woman who faced a lethal choice. if she had been faced to carry a baby to term it could've killed, or an owner brian counselor she would not have been protected. we deserve leadership and we deserve governors who actually understand biology and understand the danger that he is going for women. i urge people to go to my website stacey abrams.com. >> quick last question we're almost out of time one last question. people of luck to you and your party for strategic advice how to burst turnout. look at the turnout in kansas last night. do you think that's the ultimate proof that democrats should be running on this issue?
>> democrats should be running on the issue of safety, justice and opportunity. in georgia, music midtown is one more example of our brian cap is not only putting our lives in danger, he's also putting women in danger. with our music midtown canceling a concert because it is extreme gun laws and what we are facing with the six-week abortion ban, we know that brian kemp is a hard right extremists who does not deserve to hold his job. if democrats across the country will run on the very real issues of safety, justice and real opportunity we can win across this country and we can win here in georgia. >> stacey abrams, thank you so much for your time tonight, appreciate it. >> thank you for having me. >> coming up, a rash of republican election deniers when their own races last night. the dangers of putting an oath keeper self-described in charge a states election. that's next. that's next. conquer it with mavyret. cure it. with mavyret. mavyret cures all types of hep c.
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finchem was running for a hot seat in arizona, and said in an interview, i'm an oath keeper committed to the exercise of limited constitutional governments. at the time, the average american likely knew little if anything about the oath keepers. in the intervening years, the far right group has become a household name, particularly for the alleged role for oath keepers in sacking the capitol on january 6th. since then, they've been under intense scrutiny for the
committee investigating the insurrection, the january 6th committee, and the department of justice. last night, mark finchem, the self described oath keepers as well as a supporter of qanon conspiracy theories, and an election denier, won the republican nomination for secretary of state in arizona. the key swing spade. how is that for a turn of events? he's not alone. in arizona, election denier blake masters, like finchem, also endorsed by donald trump, when the republican nomination for u.s. senate, and will challenge incumbent mark kelly. and far right candidate curry -- who is running for the republican nominee for governor, and yes, with trump's support, claimed with no evidence that her campaign detected some stealing going on a week before the primary. thanks to some late night vote dumps, she is leading in a race that is too close to call, something that she would undoubtedly call fraud had the dumps gone for her opponent. oh, the irony. we have a conservative columnist and the policy editor
at the bulwark. she joins us now. thank you so much for joining us tonight. the republican party of lincoln and eisenhower is now not just the party of trump, but the pardon of mark finchem. >> they are the reality resistant caucus. at least big chunks of the republican party. i was really distressed to see peter meijer go down in michigan. one of the republicans that voted to impeach trump. that was said. we are facing, in the next couple of weeks, the primary for liz cheney, who has demonstrated wet principled republican conservative interim can mean and look like. her chances of prevailing in this republican party are pretty dim. that is where we are. let's remember. it is not a completely bleak
landscape. trump's picks did not succeed in georgia. in fact, camp, the administerial candidate that trump posed won in a landslide in his primary. and so there have been a few bright moments, but no, i'm not going to pretend that it is not -- that the party has not gone into a really dangerous and dismaying called a sack. the idea that an oath keeper could be -- yes, go ahead. >> i was going to jump in and be the debbie downer. i admire your attempt to find some moments of optimism. but even somebody like brian kemp, who yes, trump attacked, he also passed a voter suppression law in georgia. he's not a defender of democracy in any way. the problem with a lot of us in the media, we look for trump candidates. did they lose or get they win? the reality is, whether they
win or lose, the big lie has taken over the party. that is a parcel of the republican party. >> look, yes. again, if you want to look at the state of the party, it is bleak. but the one area where there is hope is where you have jungle primaries. for example, herrera butler and dan newhouse in the state of washington survived challenges. why? because you don't have this tiny percentage in the state of washington determining voting in primaries. they have a general primary. in our current moment, with house -- one of our political parties is, i think that this is one procedural reform -- i know it sounds boring to talk about process, but honestly, when the fate of your country is hanging in the balance, you
have to look for what may possibly help. one thing that may help is these open primaries, where it will not have the trumpiest 5%, or 10% of the party determining who the nominees are. >> mona, if the republicans take the house in november, kevin mccarthy becomes speaker. and the big lie candidates like finch will take the secretary offices in key swing states states. is it hyperbole, exaggeration to say that the 2022 could end up being the last fully free and fair election for the u.s.? given that they will not allow democrats to win in 2024, they will not allow a free and fair election in 2024, are they? >> i think that is overstated. i think it has to be on our minds, and we have to be vigilant. obviously, these are just primaries, these are not general elections. a number of these extreme candidates will be defeated. but we saw in kansas suggests that the abortion matter is
going to weigh very strongly in voters minds. you have people like this woman in michigan, i think, who name i forget right now. dixon. she is opposed to any exceptions for abortion, except for the life of the mother. so she would not allow for exceptions for rape or incest. those kinds of candidates are going to be more vulnerable in general election matchups. i doubt and no one in my alarm about the state of our democracy. but i am not at that point yet of slitting our throats. we are not there yet. >> you should come on the show more often. you will set me up for optimism, as opposed to the permanent pessimism and depression. thank you for your time, we appreciate it. >> my pleasure. >> still to come, why did former trump agencies and
officials keep losing their texts from january 6th? how do they keep getting wiped from government issued phones? is anybody going to jail for it? that story is next. that story is next that story is next i'm a fancy exercise bike noobie. instructor: come on! a little more! and i'm taking a detour. and if you don't have the right home insurance coverage, you could be working this out yourself. so get allstate. who's on it with jardiance? we're managing type 2 diabetes and heart risk. we're hittin' the trails between meetings. and putting the brakes on fried foods. jardiance is a once-daily pill that...not only lowers a1c, it goes beyond to reduce the risk of cardiovascular death for adults with type 2 diabetes and known heart disease.
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agencies and departments from the trump era like the secret service, like the department of homeland security having deleted all text messages from january 6th. and the latest reports of deleted techs now come from the top department of defense officials. wiped, gone from government issued phones. if this happened under any other in ministration, this would be a huge, huge scandal. the bee public calls for people to go to prison over this. but with these guys it's more like who's next? accountability may not be dodged forever though. trump white house counsel pat cipollone was subpoenaed by the department of justice before a federal grand jury conducting an investigation into the january six. this made cipollone the highest trump official to go before a grand jury. harry lippman is a former u.s. to tierney for the western district of pennsylvania. he served as deputy assistant general in the department of justice. he joins me now.
if harry thanks for coming on. these deletions keep getting normalized as bureaucracy or bad records management. but it is actually illegal to destroy federal records is it not? whether intentionally or by mistake? >> look i think it's beginning to and the coincidence that you alluded to with the wild quote that we could put a bigger turn on it because all three of them are people who are likely to have important evidence about january 5th and sixth, most recently cuccinelli trump was calling up and badgering to seize voting machines. so those tax ought to be really probitive and yes at this point a mystery would be putting it kindly. we are almost at the dog ate it phase and it's not passing the smell test but it's simple in this fact mehdi. we've got this going on and
what has to happen doj needs to open an investigation. i think it will. it could be brawling, it could be simple but the people in charge have to be put under oath and get to the bottom of it and fast. note that the officials in both cases say, we didn't do anything, we gave it back just as we were supposed to. something really stinks and it's completely critical to the broader january 6th investigation, this is like the cover-up that is worst in the crime except as you say in this case the, crime is so gargantuan we haven't really been focusing on this so far. >> and harry as someone as who worked in justice, when you think of the doj subpoenaing white house counsel, his deputy white house counsel. how much should be read into that? >> it's really big and seems to me. look, we already knew that they were focusing on trump and both cipollone and phil ben are absolutely inner sanctum. they were there for everything.
if they testify it sort of the equivalent of the white house tapes for nixon that we didn't have at the time. they were present for all the criminal stuff. moreover, we know where they stand on it. we know they travel told trump it was illegal. we know that they were horrified. now there is this issue. are they going to try to dodge with executive privilege and will they do it sort of aggressively or do they just need a kind of court order to make them talk? but i think it really makes it clear that this is coming at trump like a freight train and that's the only real reason to be looking for both cipollone and filled in and it could on its own crack the case in a way that we've been thinking they need us to quiet them to cooperate with us to do. it's really big. >> harry last question to you. are these new grand jury developments, the subpoenas are the new evidence of a new aggressive posture from the doj?
or is this in line with how the investigation is always going to progress? >> my view on this is the latter. i know there's been a lot of criticism but much of what they did is behind the scenes and it was after a huge operation with 840 people charged. i think why it's coming out now as they are bringing people to the grand jury and it's those people who are talking whereas people from doj were not talking before. i think they have been at least for several months very earnest about this and it's only now that the public evidence is making that apparent. >> harry lippman, we will have to leave it there. thank you so much for your analysis. >> thank you. >> still ahead. conspiracy therapists and grift or alex jones may be in serious legal trouble. >> mr. jones, in discovery you were asked, do you have sandy hook text messages on your phone and you said no.
correct? you said that under oath. didn't you? >> i may be mistaken, i was mistaken but if you got the messages -- >> the latest from the jones trial and huge error his legal team just made. to call it a rookie mistake would be an insult to rookies. that's next. that's next. so many bubbles! as an expedia member you earn points on your travels, and that's on top of your airline miles. so you can go and see... or taste or do absolutely nothing with all those bubbles. without ever wondering if you're getting the most out of your trip. because you are. ♪ got my hair got my head ♪ introducing new one a day multi+. a complete multivitamin plus an extra boost of support for your immunity, brain,
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stand, it doesn't get much better than this. >> do you know where i got this? >> no. >> mr. jones, did you know the 12 days ago, 12 days ago, your attorneys messed up and sent me an entire digital copy of your entire cell phone with every text messages you have sent for the past two years, and when informed, did not take any subsequent privilege or protected it anyway. as of two days ago, it felt clear in free into my possession, and that's how i know you lied to me when you said that you did not have the text messages. did you know that? >> i told you the truth. i gave them my phone, -- >> mr. jones, answer the question. >> did you know this? >> no, i didn't know this happened. i gave the phone over -- >> just answer the question. >> you said in your deposition, you searched your phone. you said that you pulled out
the text, did the search function for sandy hook. that's what you said, mr. jones, correct? >> i had several different phones with this number, but i did that. that's why he got it. >> that's not why it happened. >> my lawyers sent it to you, but i'm hiding it. okay. >> mr. jones? please just answer questions, there is no question -- only ask questions. >> mr. johns, in discovery, you are asked, do you have sandy hook test messages on your phone? you said no, correct. you said that under oath. >> if i was mistaken, i was mistaken. you've got the message, is the right there. >> you know a perjury is? i want you to know, before we go into this. >> yes i do. >> that was just one of the many gobsmacked-ing moments from the seven-day trial so far
of conspiracy theorist alex jones. he was already found liable for defamation after using his platform to spread the false and defensive conspiracy theory that these shooting at sandy hook elementary school was a hoax. the trial right now is how much he should pay in damages, and the jury is deliberating. the trial has laid bare what we already knew, jones's website infowars is a cesspool of disinformation. earlier this, week and infowars host admitted that he did know back basic fact checking before sharing an article attacking the father of a sandy hook victim. >> let me ask you this. if you get something from a, source, and this is sometimes reliable, but sometimes they're way out there and unreliable. is it not incumbent on you to check it with some sort of vetting? >> yes, i could've done a better better drop. >> you could've done any job.
>> a producer also refused to say whether alex jones should have verified his bogus claims about sandy hook before he made them publicly to his legions of loyal viewers. >> we heard mr. jones say that there are photos of kids, who they said died, who were still alive. that's why mr. john said? >> correct. >> he should've verified. that if he is going to say something that a rages, right? do you not think so? >> i can't speak for him, i'm not sure what was going through his head at the time. >> just yesterday, the judge issued jones a brutal dressing down over his seemingly pathological inability to tell the truth, even while under oath. >> mr. jones, you may not say to this jury that you complied with discovery. that is not true, you may not say it again.
it seems absurd to instruct you again that you must tell the truth while you testify, and yet here i am. you must tell the truth while you testify! this is not your show! >> it's worth noting that alex jones is not just the far right fringe figure he should be, because past guests on his program, like donald trump and congressman matt gates, and more recent guests like marjorie taylor greene, which have lent legitimacy to this conspiratorial, far-right bloviate are. pedals nonstop conspiracies about murdered children, hillary clinton being a demon, and a jewish mafia controlling the world. he should've been rejected by republican leaders and lawmakers, but instead, he was shamefully embraced. i honestly feel that that's my calling--
to give back to younger people. i think most adults will start realizing that they don't recall things as quickly as they used to or they don't remember things as vividly as they once did. i've been taking prevagen for about three years now. people say to me periodically, "man, you've got a memory like an elephant." it's really, really helped me tremendously. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. the day of the heart attack, i was scared. i didn't know what to do. seeing my daughter have a heart attack, it shook me. aspirin helps reduce the chance of another heart attack by 31%. be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. i know that none of these
reforms would be easy. but we have to move ahead with courage and honesty. our children's retirement security is more important than partisan politics. [applause] >> that was then president george w. bush pitching his plan to privatized social security during the 2005 state of the union address. as it turns, out he did not move forward with honesty or courage. shock and horror. he told the country, touting
his plan, a long time wall street fever dream, but voters did not buy it. the proposal was dead on arrival. >> the fight over social security, it's looking like the height of campaign season now. president bush has been traveling the country making his pitch that reforms are needed. >> the president and his top aides had lost their own campaign in support of private accounts. >> i feel great about where we are. we are winning the debates. they are an awfully good idea. >> to the point a president himself repeated it at rallies in new jersey than friday. >> talking about building up an asset base, which is a viable part of the stable future. >> several national polls say that the public is not buying the presidents pitch. >> after bush's goodwill tour, about two thirds of the country's disapproved his handling of social security. bold, courageous republicans dropped the privatization policy.
but 17 years later, ron johnson of wisconsin, who is more blunt than bold, wants to bring it back. he told the radio program this week that he thinks republicans should open the door to make programs like social security, and medicare eligible to be defunded by congress. even erasing data found that 83% of americans want to expand social security, not make has to it. proposals like, that as well as a similar radically right plane from rick scott to end programs like social security without congressional reauthorization. that's exactly why risk republican senate leader mitch mcconnell, which, whatever you else you think about him, is a smart political strategist. it does not want to tell voters what they will do if they take power. he knows the republican agenda is incredibly unpopular, which is why democrats should be hanging johnson and scotts plans around the neck of every republican lawmaker running for reelection in november. make them own them, or run from them.
if defund the police is unpopular as a political slogan, how unpopular is defunding social security and medicare. i'm joined by mandela bombs, the governor of wisconsin, and that candidate likely to run against ron johnson this december. thank you for joining me on the show today. were you surprised to hear ron johnson to just openly say in an interview that he is out for -- i'll tell, you i'm not surprised to hear, that because he is a servant, out of touch, ultra millionaire politician who cares about himself more than the rest of the people of miss conson. the reality is, he went to the senate, doubled as well, and he wants to make life harder for everybody else. that's the unfortunate representation that we have been getting from ron johnson. it's exactly why he decided to run for the u.s. senate, if he came out of office, because people are going to continue to be left behind as long as he is left in office. we need your help.
we need people to show up. we are beating ron johnson in the polls right now, but we need to finish the job this november. if you have an opportunity, go to mandela barnes dot com, and to help us get the job done. >> ron johnson has called for a federal 20-week abortion ban. women who don't like wisconsin's abortion restrictions can move. are democrats being aggressive enough in making republicans own they're incredibly unpopular agenda? tax cuts for the rich, force, birth medicare -- >> i can't think of a more out of touch position to have. this is personal for me, i'm an only child. but i was not my mother's first pregnancy. she had a complicated presidency -- she was pretty brave enough to actually recorded a commercial saying, sharing her story to make sure that others knew that she was not alone. 70% of the people in wisconsin agree that roe v. wade should be the law of the land. we are tired of out of touch politicians, people like ron johnson, who put politics over our health, over our safety,
and who put politics over everything else in their own personal agenda, their own personal ambition. >> with the respect, i'm not disagreeing with what you are saying. you didn't answer my question? shouldn't your party be campaigning much more aggressively, i feel like republicans are too afraid of their own shadow. >> i'm not here to make excuses for anybody. i'm talking about our campaign, which we are being aggressive on the issue of abortion. we are being aggressive about the fact that ron johnson is so out of touch that he would tell people in the state of wisconsin to go to illinois to get an abortion. we are holding him accountable every step of the way. we have centered, expanding the democratic majority in the filibuster, and confining the right to choose and the law. it has been a forefront of this campaign. i'm not sure what everybody else is doing, i'm squarely focused on what we have going on in wisconsin, and how do we reckon with the 1849 bill that we have -- the 1849 law that ends abortion. >> just briefly, tell our
viewers about the 1849 law in wisconsin. >> let's take a little trip back in, time if you will. this was when women did not have the right to vote. they certainly weren't part of the legislature, but they had laws that govern their bodies. this was a year after wisconsin officially became a state. this is the type of archaic law that people are forced to live under right now, because congress -- because of the supreme court, i should say, and their disastrous decision to take away the right to choose, overturning 50 years of precedent. that is why, again, we have to expand the democratic majority because it should not be left to states for people to figure out if and when people would get an abortion. this is a constitutional right that has to be protected. the senate had a chance to act, but we have people like ron johnson who, again, think that abortion that should be illegal with no exceptions. i have stood in the -- and personal choice.
that's with the states are in this election. that's what we're dealing with right now. we get rid of him, we get one step closer to making sure that the right to choose is in shrine in law all across the country. >> the washington post published a piece this week about your apparently evolving political views. they cite a tweet, your official lieutenant governor account posted back in 2019, with progressive conduct woman, quoting, she's brilliant, she cares about the environment. it also, said she's exactly who we need in congress right now, fighting for what is right. the piece goes on to say that nearly three leaders, barnes, is distancing himself from omar and some polarizing ideas he is associated himself with as he closes in on the democratic nomination for u.s. senate. are you trying to distance yourself from the left, because i would know that you are running against a guy ron johnson, who does not seem to care about distancing himself from the far-right fringes of his own party? >> i will tell, you i'm proud of my progressive track record. working for families across
this state, and we are focused on the labor and working families. that's where this campaign comes down to. i'm not going to get caught up in the national narrative, this is about how we improve lives about people who have been struggling in the state of wisconsin. i have a working class background, i come from a working class family, and it is the same exact people in households and neighborhoods like mine, all across the state who deserve better. for people like ron johnson, as you mentioned, who would rather cater to the fringes of his party, the far-right. a person that would be so audacious as to try to send fake electors to mike pence to try to overturn our democracy. that's also what is at stake at this election. that's exactly what we are fighting for. i want to keep fighting for the same things that i have fought for in a legislator, as an organizer, and now as lieutenant governor. >> just to be specific, because it's easy to talk about labels, progressive, right, left, -- in 2019, you tweeted, and i quote, medicare for all is a much more moderate proposal than any war. in my, view a sensible
statement if i have ever heard one. do you stand by that tweet? do you plan to support health care once in the senate? >> i absolutely still support universal health care. i will tell, you there are so many people, so many heartbreaking stories across the state of wisconsin. i met a farmer outside of eau claire, who told me about when his and his wife were expecting, before the baby even was delivered, they faced severe complications. they racked up a quarter million dollars in medical debt. that's the type of debt that can shatter your dreams. it's the type of that that you could live -- and it speaks to the broken health care system that we have in this country. i absolutely support universal health care, with medicare for all being the quickest path. i joined tammy baldwin in her, support in her support for medicare for all. >> what happens that has cast forward, what happens when we see a lot of election deniers win in primaries across the country? we were talking about earlier in the show. what happens in a state like wisconsin, you mentioned that the fake elector scheme that
ron johnson was apparently involved in. what happens in 2024, or even in the midterms this year if there are attempts to rig ballots, change results, contested elections that are being certified. what is your plan there? how worried are you about wisconsin being one of the battlegrounds for that? >> again, look at the january 6th committee revealed. ron johnson's office tried to overturn an election. if they are able to get the majority in either house, you can just imagine what's antics, tricks that they're trying to pull. this is the unfortunate reality that we are experiencing, because democracy is just not working out for republicans. they're trying to keep up with the will of the people, the issues that they support, the things that they take on and challenge. it is so very unpopular -- >> yes. [inaudible] >> it would be if they were to overturn our democracy.
that's what we're fighting for. i don't want to wake up on november 9th, and just to see republicans gain more seats in the u.s. senate. or ended up with -- [inaudible] lives are at stake right now. >> we will have to leave it there. mandela barnes, thank you so much for your time tonight, we appreciate it. that is all in on this wednesday night, msnbc prime starts right now with ali velshi, good evening. mehdi thank you great conversation i'm kind of fascinating. you and i both come from places where there is universal health care. it's 15 models for doing this around the world, there 60 developed countries that do it and in 2022 we're still arguing and how to get this done in the united states. it should be a slam dunk but it's not. >> it's absolutely crazy as you say ali. those who live abroad nowhere at an outlier the uss. >> thanks for the discussion my friend you have a great night. and thanks to you at home for joining us at this hour.
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