thank you for being with us on this eventful thursday. "the beat with ari melber" starts right now. hi, ari. i've got to know. what do you think the trump people are going to do tomorrow before 3:00? >> that is a big question we're about to get into, john. i think they have a hard choice to make that merrick garland is forcing them to make that otherwise they didn't know they were going to make so i don't know if they even know. good to see you, sir. i want to welcome everyone into "the beat." you know what we're doing here, we're beginning with breaking news. the u.s. government searched the home of its former leader for criminal evidence this week. now today for the first time, the chief law enforcement officer of the united states, attorney general merrick garland, spoke out about that unprecedented legal action and he explained to the nation in

brief, spare, objective and at times even honestly dry terms what exactly they are doing, and that this grave step was taken carefully after the attorney general says they exhausted the other less intrusive options and, he put it on record for the nation, that he personally approved of this legal measure. >> i personally approved the decision to seek a search warrant in this matter. second, the department does not take such a decision lightly. where possible, it is standard practice to seek less intrusive means. >> less intrusive means is exactly what the doj was, according to garland, doing up until this search. now, he spoke for just a few minutes. he took no questions. he emphasized that prosecutors will continue to approach this

case with independent, nonpartisan rigor to uphold the rule of law. >> upholding the rule of law means applying the law evenly without fear or favor. under my watch, that is precisely what the justice department is doing. >> there you have it. it may sound like general terms, and that's very deliberate. this attorney general so attacked and maligned by the former president is going out of his way not to reveal anything that would not be legally proper, while also defending, as he has every right to do, what the department is doing as well as explaining at a level that's legally valid what they're doing. but there is way more news. garland announcing that this justice department sees a legal and valid path to providing even more facts about that search of mar-a-lago, and that is why today, and this is big news, in

some ways this is the biggest news of the week, and i know that sounds like a lot. but this justice department is going to now ask a judge to unseal the trump search warrant and the list of property taken by that legal force out of the possession of donald trump's compounding. . >> the department filed the motion to make public the warrant and receipt in light of the former president's public confirmation of the search, the surrounding circumstances, and the substantial public interest in this matter. >> that is also a legal move, and it is in some ways unusual, but unusual in a bad way for trump and we'll explain. because this is not something where the doj just decides. these contents of that search warrant and what was seized would only become public after trump has a chance to weigh in and a judge rules on it. but this is something that i want to explain to you when we

woke up today we didn't know we would see this. this is very clearly this justice department calling out donald trump for unfairly publicizing selective deals of the operation while also simultaneously hiding the warrant. consider that a natural or automatic trick that donald trump may just employ out of habit or that he thought he could get away with. so this was today, let's be clear, far more than a briefing or a press conference. as garland spoke, we will show you what was happening in court. doj prosecutors going forward with court action, filing a new motion, to formally unseal the warrant and those details. and that binding filing, the pages of which you see on the screen, it calls out donald trump even further, emphasizing that the doj was not the entity or the source of what went public with the unannounced search. that indeed the whole operation could have stayed secret, but as the filing explains, trump himself provided the first public statement and public confirmation that this even

occurred. now, let me tell you what that is. that is doj's way of calling out trump. of busting him for trying to publicize his own search. and you can imagine many people in life who faced with this situation would say uh-oh, let's get through this and i won't publicize it because hopefully i'll just get through it. so they're calling him out for that while also complaining about this process that he was publicizing. the fact that there was a search or a raid is public because of trump and the doj. that matters because garland's new filing says that trump's representatives have given these additional statements to the press concerning the search including public characterizations of materials sought. and then this is important. they say, therefore, the occurrence of the search and indications of the subject matter are already public. now, that's respectful lawyer speak for you did this, don't

blame it on us, and we will take you back into court now, this is happening today, and we don't care that he's a former president. we're not supposed to care that you're the former president. you are a citizen, no more and no less. that's what that thing really says because, boy, did they do a lot of ex-president special citizen treatment up to this point. we have more on that that we can show you the evidence but i want to continue explaining the big story because garland also notes this fbi search was very credibly the last resort. there's new reporting that connects with that. how something that may have looked sudden to those who were not in the know on monday grew out of a long process. that trump first received a subpoena on this in the spring. so the doj may have viewed trump as failing to comply with that earlier binding demand. there are also reports that some of the possible items here are so sensitive and so tied to national security that the doj really had to act given what

they viewed as the lack of cooperation. two sources briefed on the actual classified material in question spoke to "the times" about that issue and admits the heated attacks on law enforcement, the normally sober out of the spotlight garland today also spoke out, as i mentioned, defending his team against attacks by the gop and trump allies on what they used to call blue lives. >> let me address recent unfounded attacks on the professionalism of the fbi and justice department agents and prosecutors. i will not stand by silently when their integrity is unfairly attacked. the men and women of the fbi and the justice department are dedicated, patriotic public servants. >> so after being searched on monday and deposed on wednesday, trump now has this new high-pressure legal problem to deal with today, thursday.

will he go along with the doj's request to just release this warrant and its material or will he fight it? well, that's the brand new question that honestly trump and his lawyers didn't know they were going to get in a binding manner today. the new filing, again i want to show you exactly what that is and the facts, says the former president should have been opportunity to respond to this motion and lodge objections, including with regard to any legitimate privacy interests or the potential for other injury to him if these materials are made public. okay. and the court is requesting trump trump's lawyers confer with doj and give an update tomorrow. so take this all together and let me conclude for you before we bring in our experts about what we've learned today and this is why we stayed intellectually humble because we didn't know this was going to happen today. here's what's going on. this doj is dialing up the legal pressure here and now.

court clashes really do boil down to moves. trump apparently made a move where he thought he could hand back some of the documents, and we've reported he did hand over some, and then just get away with the rest. and the doj made its move and said no. they knew or had strong evidence to prove that there were other classified and potentially criminal materials on site and they made the move demanding them under subpoena and trump apparently thought he could just get away with whatever he had left without being searched or raided. he is the former president and he's pushed lines before, and as merrick garland just explained today, it is true that they exhausted other less intrusive means first. so that was a move. but trump miscalculated. and faced this assertive operation. and then he decided to publicize that. and i'll tell you, that was another move. whether trump made it out of emotion or strategy, that move paved the way for the doj's very

significant legal move today that is the top story tonight, which is merrick garland basically saying we did this quietly, you made it loud. and now you're complaining that the loud process is somehow mysteriously without evidence unfair. so fine, says garland. let's put the facts about the search out and the judges and the public will see from yourself what items you were hiding, he might say to mr. trump. garland is a very different operator than trump or most of his lawyers. it seems like he might take a few rounds of criticism or punches before he legally acts. but mr. garland now after moving quietly is acting, and trump is out here complaining with his allies darkly and violently and menacingly threatening some kind of unrest. the search is unprecedented. i've got to tell you, the contours of this kind of stand-off are kind of actually

classic. let me tell you what i mean. trump used to have power. but legally in the united states, he now has no federal power. garland is powerful. he is the one with far more moves that he is able to make. garland is the one who actually knows things that neither the former president or the current president would know. and as beanie segal put it so simply, the strong move quiet, the weak start riots. donald trump is as legally weak right now as he has ever been, facing a strong, if often quiet legal adversary. that's what we know tonight. now as promised we bring in someone who's worked at the highest levels of the justice department, president obama's former acting united states solicitor general, neal katyal. welcome. your thoughts on all of the

above? >> i completely agree, ari, with just how you put it. this is a strong move, a quiet move, a brilliant chess move by garland. i boil this down into two moves. trump made the first move claiming it was abusive and so on even though it was authorized by his former fbi director that he put into the job. even though it was enforcing a law that in 2018 donald trump signed into being, making it a felony to mishandle classified documents. putting all that aside, that was move one. move two is garland's response today. he says basically to the court, hey, yeah, you think this is abusive, trump? i want this unsealed. i want the american public to know why i'm doing what i'm doing. and then he had the smart idea that say, look, i'm not legally required to do this, but actually, court, go ask donald trump for his view on whether or not these documents should be given to the american public. he didn't have to do that, but

he did. and that move now puts the ball back in trump's court to say do you really want transparency in this investigation, donald trump, or would you prefer to hide what's going on at mar-a-lago behind closed doors? now, donald trump could have released of this information on monday, on the day of the search. he has a copy of the warrant. he has a copy of what the government took, what the fbi took on monday when they were executing the search warrant. that suggests to me he has something big to hide. it's not that different from the 440 times of the fifth amendment in the deposition yesterday. we are learning just in the last hour, "the new york times" is reporting that we've now learned that the fbi has found top secret material at mar-a-lago. so there's a reason why trump is all of a sudden very quiet. >> exactly. you say that it's what was on

site that really matters. and a lot of the attacks are going to be lying, scurrilous, some of them quite despicable attacks on law enforcement, on independent folks and police and fbi as mentioned. we can get into the hypocrisy of that but there is still a large group of people in america, neal, you and i know some of them. we count many of them as our viewers who will respond to the facts. for example, if facts emerged that nothing was removed from the site, that some runaway some partisan person planted evidence and that was caught on surveillance video, if hypothetically something came out, you would respond to that. the problem seems to be that donald trump and his lawyers already know the given facts, the materials removed, the underlying warrant is bad for them. you and i both know if they had something really good and juicy, spoiler alert, they're not shy about putting stuff out in the press and on the internet. so this uncharacteristic quiet seems to also belie a certain amount of guilt. given as mentioned that you have

this doj experience, let's get your response to the other part of this filing. i tried to read several parts so people can see the facts, make up their own minds, and if trump files a content-based response, we'll show that too in the days ahead. the doj new motion also says, quote, the press and the public enjoy a qualified right of access to criminal and judicial proceedings. what is the doj doing there in an area where we have obviously heard that some things must stay secret but other things are a balanced or qualified decision? >> yeah, this is really subtle. i think what garland is doing is he's saying, and he said this at the press conference, look, we didn't want to make any of this public. we were perfectly happy to have this secret search, not announced to the cameras. we were totally quiet, there were no leaks. that's the way the justice department operates as a standard way. but you, donald trump, accused us of doing this for politics. and pressuring trump not to run

or this or that. garland's point is basically and very subtly is, look, if we were trying to politically pressure you or something, we would have said something publicly. you're the one who said something public. now it's a matter of public interest. we see it today in the horrific attack in cincinnati and the like, the attacks on the fbi that trump made, accusations that they planted material, even though his own lawyer was present at the scene of the search when it happened. you know, so garland saying all of that and saying basically, look, you've now made this a public interest issue, fine. bring it on. let's have the american public see exactly what we found and exactly why we went to a federal judge to ask for a search warrant. >> that really all makes sense. i want you to stay with me as we bring in another guest with a certain type of insight here because we have these new details with a lot of panic on the trump side. "rolling stone" reporting he's worried there could be a rat in

the inner circle. questions about wires an phone taps. we bring in donald trump's niece, mary trump, the author of "too much and never enough" and "the reckoning." welcome back, mary. donald trump searched on monday, pleaded the fifth on wednesday. now called out by the attorney general with a high-pressure motion thursday. an update due friday. what's he thinking from your experience with him this week? >> he's probably having a very difficult time processing this because, you know, donald is a coward and a bully. he only attacks if he believes there will be no counterattack. he's been tripped up by two things here. as neal said earlier, garland is playing chess. donald can only play checkers. so he's being outmaneuvered. he's also gotten tripped up. it never occurred to donald that

somebody who looks like merrick garland and talks like merrick garland is actually a ninja. >> yeah. build on that point because you're talking about what he assesses. you know, americans watching this garland presser today, this might have been, and neal can weigh in if he sees it differently, i think it might have been the most high profile kind of high wire act this attorney general has had to walk yet. the jan 6 probe is very significant, but saying you're going after the people that raided the capitol is straightforward. this to people who might not be trump loyalists say, wait, what happened with the former president? i'm sure it will be on the news all over. what they saw, mary, was not someone who looked like they were dying for a fight or press coverage or wanting to be in partisan headlines. i think they saw someone very sober who looks like he has his act together. how does that fit into what you

say donald trump may have misapprehended about this attorney general? >> well, again, he believed he had an open field. and one of the complicating factors here, and this has been a problem for a very long time, is that it also revealed the lengths to which the entire republican party is willing to go. i mean the attacks on the fbi and the doj are not just coming from donald and his closest allies, they're coming from the entire party. so to see merrick garland with some restraint and such equanimity tell the american people this is a very serious issue, we cannot allow these attacks to stand, puts donald, as you said earlier, in a position of having to respond in a way that actually meets the moment. and he cannot do that. >> just to build on what mary is saying there, because i think it's exactly right. it's not just what merrick

garland sounded like or what he looked like, it's what he said. he's saying, look, i'm personally responsible for this. i authorized the search. here's why i did it. i try to take these less restrictive means, voluntary subpoenas and the like. none of that worked, so i had to do this. and then he goes on to say, ari, stuff we haven't heard from the justice department over the last four years during trump, which is the rule of law is really important. even administration of the law is really important. it is the presumption of innocence, even no donald trump, is really important. that's the way an attorney general speaks. i thought it was as fine a moment for the attorney general as i've ever seen. >> wow. really striking. neal katyal, mary trump, thanks to both of you as we kick off our coverage. we have our shortest break, one minute. we turn to a special report on the timeline when we're back in just 60 seconds. ck in just 6 0 seconds. this is john. he hasn't worked this hard to only get this far with his cholesterol.

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the justice department has filed a motion in the southern district of florida to unseal a search warrant and property receipt relating to a court-approved search that the fbi conducted earlier this week. i personally approve the decision to seek a search warrant in this matter. >> that is what it sounds like when this normally sober, very quiet attorney general, merrick garland, speaks out and explains in his clear words, as we've been reporting, what they're up to. we're tracking this clash over what could soon be the possible release of the search warrant for trump's home. garland made it clear he signed off. he also undercut the claims that somehow there was some federal malfeasance here. indeed, in brief formal tones that did not release any touchy details, he explained that basically donald trump had already received extra deference, advance notice, and other avoidant techniques to try

to resolve this without going in and taking the stuff. they even sent down very top officials from the government to explain to trump's lawyers that it was vital that they turn over the state secrets that were now sitting in a citizen's home. so there's actually a much longer timeline here of events. as with all of this, we're going to follow the facts so i can give you a preview that donald trump's version of events really focused on monday, as mentioned, he's the one publicizing the monday search and he has a lot of people pushing misinformation about it. so part of that narrative is the idea that this all just popped up out of the blue. in fact the reports from doj and independent sources show that trump was issued a subpoena about returning these documents in the spring, and it came after trump had returned those 15 boxes of records to the archives which he was not supposed to have in the first place that included classified material. in june there was a visit to mar-a-lago where a chief official in the justice

department went on site, arriving at mar-a-lago, discussing the boxes of government records. trump was there, reportedly, so he knew about this, which again is important that this wasn't all somehow kept from him in some bureaucratic miscommunication. he reportedly shook hands and that part was normal. five days later, that official had a written communication with trump's lawyer requesting the contents in that room be better secured. in late june feds issued the subpoena for surveillance footage which the trump team provided. and according to the articles that are coming out tracking this, that's as far as they could identify what happened. then you have monday's search. so what changed in that amount of time? well, it is apparent that sometime between that set of conversations and attempts to get the material in june, something broke. either there was evidence that trump or his lawyers were lying in a manner that they could no longer be trusted or there was

some other development regarding what was still the possibility of possession of the documents. we heard from david kelly about how this all relates to possible criminal activity. >> the question here is, there was conversation and interaction between the national archives and the trump camp. what did he say, and what did he do? it may well be at the end of the day that this case is only about that. we want our documents back, they're important to the national security, we're taking them back. it could also be a lot more than that and it may well be because he lied about it or he did something under the table, not wanting people to see what he was doing. >> the level of public guessing here is understandable, and it's basically required because of the security rules around secrecy of the probe and the way donald trump is being so selective. as i discussed tonight with neal katyal. donald trump complaining and complaining but not revealing

anything about what they took out of his home, which makes you wonder does he know that what they took would make him look really bad. so we have a former federal prosecutor right after this break. r federal prosecutor right after this break. i really do take care of myself. i try to stay in shape. that's really important, especially as you age. i noticed after kids that my body totally changed. i started noticing a little pudge. so i took action! coolsculpting targets, freezes and eliminates treated fat for good. no needles, no incisions. discuss coolsculpting with your provider. some common side effects include temporary numbness, discomfort and swelling. you've come this far... coolsculpting takes you further. visit coolsculpting.com

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upholding the rule of law means applying the law evenly without fear or favor. under my watch, that is precisely what the justice department is doing.

>> attorney general garland today in his briefing about that search of donald trump and now laying out a choice for trump and his lawyers to make about the unsealing of that material. i'm joined now by former prosecutor renati mariotti. thank you for being here. >> thank you, ari. >> this is the timeline and we can show the search here. i'm not going to read it all. bottom line, renato, it took time. you have the return of some material and then everything you see on the rest of that list is all the time that it went through. and so given that there's been so much talk about being a citizen and not above the law, i want to start with the most simple question to you and then we can build. that is okay? >> sure. >> if a different citizen, just a human, had this kind of classified material at home and then was subpoenaed, would they

get this much time and this much deference in treatment? just before we even get to monday. >> no way. this is kid gloves, ari. if i had 15 boxes or more of classified documents in my house, the fbi would be here to pick it up. they'd be beating down by doorstep. i wouldn't get a subpoena, i wouldn't get a request, i wouldn't get months of time to figure it out. it would be taken from me swiftly, period. >> yeah. and my second question is also simple, then we can get intricate. did you ever hear the expression don't mistake my kindness for weakness? >> i sure have. >> it's not a legal doctrine, but i wonder if that's a little where merrick garland is. he is known for his sobriety and reasonableness. that's why he was discovered to many americans because he was a moderate judge picked by a president trying to find someone that republicans had previously

been on record saying they supported. we all remember that. now he's the attorney general. he's by far not the most, shall we say, aggressive style prosecutor that biden could have picked, andrew weissman, a mueller deputy, is very respected. he's known as independent but his style is more aggressive. biden picked this kind of person. it seems at mar-a-lago they felt like they had one over on him. does that fit into this? were they wrong? what happened in your view after so much time of deference? >> well, we saw there were some boxes that were turned over, and then there was an additional request, right? so that suggests that the government was not -- did not think they had everything. and then after that subpoena, of course we then have a search warrant later which suggests that they had some information that they still didn't have everything after a grand jury subpoena. and i think the message that trump's team got was because

he's the former president, that they were going to treat him with kid gloves. they were going to give him special deference. and they were for a period of time. they were doing it precisely for this moment, for the moment when trump's team was going to cry foul, attack the fbi and attack the doj and they could say, look, we bent over backwards for this guy and it still was not enough. he was just absolutely committed to not following the law. >> take a listen to garland today defending these federal officials. >> faithful adherence to the rule of law is the bedrock principle of the justice department and of our democracy. upholding the rule of law means applying the law evenly without fear or favor. i will not stand by silently when their integrity is unfairly attacked. >> when you see people say, oh, gosh, the trump folks are dialing up the rhetoric, we also

have that terrible report about an attack on an fbi office. we'll have that in the program as well tonight, sadly. what do you say to people who think, oh, gosh, maybe that will press these guys as if they have never faced down gangsters and drug dealers and criminals? >> i think that this is not -- you know, donald trump is not the biggest criminal that the justice department has faced. i think they have faced greater threats. i know i've had threats on my life when i was a federal prosecutor. i know many others in the justice department have. but i will say this. i do think that there had been talk about whether or not this justice department was not up to the task of challenging a modern-day liar and spinster like donald trump. i think today they proved that they were able to put him on his heels. that's really something. >> really interesting, again, coming from as we try to go to people who have done some of this work as you have, mr. mariotti. thank you. we are going to fit in a break and very serious news coming out of an fbi field

office in cincinnati today. an armed suspect making an attack there, now dead. and sources reporting he was at the capitol on january 6th. this is a part of the whole landscape right now. we have the latest on that coming up. st on that comi ng up. so we need something super distinctive... dad's work, meet daughter's playtime. thankfully, meta portal auto pans and zooms to keep you in frame. and the meeting on track. meta portal. the smart video calling device that makes work from home work for you.

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investigating the possible motives and objective of this individual. we begin with nbc news justice reporter, ryan riley. ryan, what do authorities know about the incident? >> so this is an individual with a nail gun based on his posts on social media. he basically tried to attack the office with a nail gun and then was later killed. it's not clear how long it took for him. he was apparently wounded at one point and might have bled out. what i have learned from other sources who are close to the community that has been working on these january 6th investigations, he was on the grounds of the capitol on january 6th. there's no indication that he went inside the building but we do know based on his own public

pronouncements as well as from what exclusive found was he was on the grounds of the capitol that day. >> right. and that gives information back ground on his profile, his activities. again, authorities, journalists not yet able to directly draw a link. indeed, as i think viewers know from following these often tragic breaking news incidents, it can take a long time for authorities to develop with confidence an individual's motive. the background, though, relevant, just as the week that this occurs is relevant. indeed at the highest levels of the fbi we have heard these kind of concerns, not with regard to this incident. again, folks can tell i'm being very precise, but in general chris wray speaking about these threats just this week. let's hear that. >> any threats made against law enforcement, including the men and women of the fbi, as with any law enforcement agency are deplorable and dangerous. we have in this country had over

the last few years an alarming rise in violence against law enforcement. >> how does this week figure into what is clearly a time where much of law enforcement is on high alert and the air waves particularly in the right wing community as well as online are full of, as we reported, we reported on some of the dangerous rhetoric last night, some very inflammatory rhetoric and direct calls to action against -- crimes against law enforcement? >> it's a lot. you know, what's remarkable about it is there hasn't been a lot of information that any of this is based off of. it's all not based off of -- no one as seen the underlying warrant, whether it's based on something that should have been investigated. they're all just taking trump's word on this and following his lead and this is an unfair attack, the fbi is out to get him without looking at the underlying facts. we might be able to see that in the next few days but there's already such an online surge of

these threats and talks about civil war as we reported along with ben collins earlier this week. we saw this play out for what it seems like. by every indication this was someone very much in trump's orbit. he was there january 6th. so i think it's something that it's sort of the worst-case scenario for a lot of law enforcement folks who are worried about what the impact of donald trump's rhetoric will be. as we saw play out on january 6th itself, it's sort of another indication of that. >> joining us now is "new york times" columnist michelle goldberg. ryan stays with us on this reporting. michelle, as i have been careful to emphasize because the facts matter that we are tracking this new information. authorities not determining motive. at the same time, it is also a fact that we are discussing this in an operative environment of incredibly inflammatory, as i put it last night, defamatory

attacks on law enforcement. here's a little bit of what has been playing out this week in some of the trump friendly media. >> no, there is no security that something wasn't planted. i'm not saying that's what they did. >> his lawyers said they brought in backpacks. what was in those backpacks? did they bring those in to fill them up or did they have something in there. >> we know they plant evidence, we know they hide evidence. we know they lie. >> do i know the boxes of material they took from mar-a-lago, that they won't put things in those boxes to entrap him? >> they precluded me from watching what they did. but at this point i don't necessarily think that they would go to the extent of trying to plant information. i think they just make stuff up. >> michelle, that's just some of what's been going around. i mentioned to viewers yesterday there was some other stuff that was so violent in its nature that we're not going to reair it and are choosing not to air it tonight, but it also referred to murder. so with all of that said, your view of where we are this week?

>> yeah. i think that the attacks on -- the rhetorical attacks on the fbi are just a smaller part of a kind of broader insurrectionary rhetoric that we've seen spread all over the right. you're seeing a lot of talk of civil war, some of it from right-wing influencers but some of it from members of congress, like marjorie taylor greene of the and so it's not that surprising if this is in fact what happened, that somebody adjacent to the maga movement, somebody who reportedly was at the capitol on january 6th, would take this rhetoric of civil war, which has been all over the right-wing internet, that they would take it seriously and act on it. that's what domestic terrorism is. it's people in power, people with some sort of reach in authority saying over and over again, somebody has to do something. somebody has to do something. and then trying to wash their hands of it when somebody does just what they have been calling for.

>> michelle, as you say, that means taking this stuff both seriously and literally. donald trump has repeatedly operated on the premise that the threatening, the fear, the willingness to go farther than most, if not everyone in these positions, is a benefit. and the fear of violence is a benefit. we've reported extensively on his remarks and his actions on the 6th when he welcomed and cheered the violence. whether that's legally chargeable is a more narrow question. on days like today, as we look at an attack on an fbi field office by someone tied to the trump movement while the motivations are still under investigation, we see that separate from the legal incitement question, having powerful influential people who cheer violence has consequences. what do you think is vital for the responsible part of the country and the justice department to do facing this? >> well, i think two parts. first of all, i think it's

imperative that people not let themselves be intimidated. i have a column out about some of the centrist pundits who say perhaps we shouldn't be prosecuting donald trump or worrying over much. people have been worrying that by prosecuting donald trump or investigating donald trump we're going to rile up his base, we're going to make the possibility of a civil war more likely. i think that it's correct that this investigation is going to rile up trump's base. but i think letting that dissuade any law enforcement officials is basically giving the insurrectionists a veto. this has become a regular part of american life. people on the far right threatening violence if they -- if they don't get their way. and to give in to that is really to give into terrorism. and so i think that donald trump's ability to kind of summon a mob or to summon violence or inspire violence

cannot be a reason to give him impunity from any crimes that he might have committed. i think that that is really, really important. and i also think that when people use this insurrectionary rhetoric, the justice department needs to take it seriously. i think they have been. one good thing about having merrick garland there as the a.g. is that he's somebody who really made his career responding to white nationalist violence, responding to militia violence, and that experience hopefully will serve him well in dealing with this threat. >> yeah. all important points as we carefully look at this incident and the wider developments this week. michelle goldberg, ryan reilly, i want to thank both of you. i'm going to fit in a break. when we come back, how everyone is making sense of this and why the fear is very real. stay with us. the fear is very real. stay with us and i write mystery novels. dogs have been such an important part of my life. i have flinn and a new puppy. as i was writing,

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apparently more paranoid, to mislead the fed giving them some documents and holdback others. >> newsweek reported that they had a mole inside mar-a-lago which doesn't surprise me, they put moles in the campaign. put moles all over the place. >> i think somebody in the president detail. >> under garland's watch it resembles the gestapo. >> this is television, make sure you watch very closely as i i roll that's all it deserves, the banner on fox yesterday there was the doj silent, complaining the doj was silent yesterday, whether they are glad they are no longer silent. meanwhile, donald trump is fundraising off this thing he needs adoration immediately to fight the witchhunt. there's $100 button and true

grifter fashion when you check the box, it becomes a recurring $100 donation. something they got in trouble for previously. no issue, too important to fund raise off. we will be right back. be right back.

a final question for you tonight, merrick garland is telling donald trump to the side. should the warrant come out? should the content be released? you can tell me at ari melber on ins, you can find me at www. ari melber.com. you can tell it should the warrant come up out or not? that does it do not for us, the reidout starts now. tonight, on